Re: Bill Wilson fucked himself

[Mike T.]

Fully_Recov...@AA-Is-A-Cult.org wrote:

>When Bill Wilson was on his deathbed, he wanted an alcoholic drink. My
>point is that he fucked himself by starting AA. If not for AA, he
>probably would have gotten that drink. He never got it.
>
>At first I thought that dont say much for his beliefs, but when
>someone is dying, the pain is probably severe, and so I can
>understand him wanting a drink. But because of AA, he was deprived
>of it. In fact it's kind of cruel of the cargivers to not give him
>one, but he asked for it and deserved it, by creating a program based
>on complete abstainance, with no exceptions.....
>
>I bet even the most rigid AA thumpers will want a drink right before
>death....


Where is the proof that he asked for a drink?

[Mark Warner]

On 11/23/2014 08:35 AM, Mike T. wrote:
> Fully_Recov...@AA-Is-A-Cult.org wrote:
>>
>> When Bill Wilson was on his deathbed, he wanted an alcoholic drink.
>

> Where is the proof that he asked for a drink?

It's common knowledge.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=bill+wilson+asks+for+drink+on+deathbed&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B7GGGL_enUS219US220&ie=UTF-8

--
Mark Warner
MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318
...lose .inhibitions when replying

[Fred Exley]

On 11/23/14 9:11 AM, Mark Warner wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 08:35 AM, Mike T. wrote:
>> Fully_Recov...@AA-Is-A-Cult.org wrote:
>>>
>>> When Bill Wilson was on his deathbed, he wanted an alcoholic drink.
>>
>> Where is the proof that he asked for a drink?
>
> It's common knowledge.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=bill+wilson+asks+for+drink+on+deathbed&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B7GGGL_enUS219US220&ie=UTF-8

As some wise one said: "I’m not horrified that Bill Wilson asked for
alcohol as he was dying. I’m horrified that he didn’t get it."

But I don't think he asked for booze on his deathbed. It's based on one
man's account, nurse James Dannenberg. Like Jesus rising from the dead,
it's common knowledge, but it ain't necessarily so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP5O_NUhrK0

[Mark Warner]

On 11/23/2014 09:45 AM, Fred Exley wrote:
>
> But I don't think he asked for booze on his deathbed. It's based on one
> man's account, nurse James Dannenberg. Like Jesus rising from the dead,
> it's common knowledge, but it ain't necessarily so...

To my knowledge, it's never been seriously challenged. Cheever is *not*
an AA detractor, and presumably read the primary sources -- the nurse's
notes -- directly. I can't imagine any reason the nurse would falsely
enter something like that several times over a three week period.

[Fred Exley]

On 11/23/14 1:23 PM, Mark Warner wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 09:45 AM, Fred Exley wrote:
>>
>> But I don't think he asked for booze on his deathbed. It's based on
>> one man's account, nurse James Dannenberg. Like Jesus rising from the
>> dead, it's common knowledge, but it ain't necessarily so...
>
> To my knowledge, it's never been seriously challenged. Cheever is *not*
> an AA detractor, and presumably read the primary sources -- the nurse's
> notes -- directly. I can't imagine any reason the nurse would falsely
> enter something like that several times over a three week period.

well maybe so, knowing what a wild and crazy guy he was. Personally, I
have no cravings, it's behind me, and if I knew I was on my deathbed
would like to be as pain-free and clear-headed as possible. If there's
a tradeoff, bring on whatever dope is necessary!

But that's just me. Anybody here wrestling with still craving alcohol?

[Mark Warner]

On 11/23/2014 01:33 PM, Fred Exley wrote:
>
> But that's just me. Anybody here wrestling with still craving alcohol?

Craving? Naw. But I will admit to having a brief, wistful yearning on
rare occasion... and I don't believe any Real Alcoholic (tm) that says
he doesn't.

[Charlie M. 1958]

On 11/23/2014 1:11 PM, Mark Warner wrote:

>
> Craving? Naw. But I will admit to having a brief, wistful yearning on
> rare occasion... and I don't believe any Real Alcoholic (tm) that says
> he doesn't.
>

Only a Real Alcoholic (tm) understands the difference.

[mgh]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 14:11:37 -0500, Mark Warner
<mhwarner.i...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 01:33 PM, Fred Exley wrote:
> >
> > But that's just me. Anybody here wrestling with still craving
alcohol?


> Craving? Naw. But I will admit to having a brief, wistful yearning
on
> rare occasion... and I don't believe any Real Alcoholic (tm) that
says
> he doesn't

Now and then a serious drinker, being dry at the moment says, "I
don t miss it at all. Feel better. Work better. Having a better
time." As ex-problem drinkers, we smile at such a sally. We know our
friend is like a boy whistling in the dark to keep up his spirits. He
fools himself. Inwardly he would give anything to take half a dozen
drinks and get away with them. He will presently try the old game
again, for he isn t happy about his sobriety. He cannot picture life
without alcohol. Some day he will be unable to imagine life either
with alcohol or without it. Then he will know loneliness such as few
do. He will be at the jumping-off place. He will wish for the end.

aa bb ch 5
A Vision For You

:)

--

~
yea...

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/23/2014 02:11 PM, Mark Warner wrote:

>
> Craving? Naw. But I will admit to having a brief, wistful yearning on
> rare occasion... and I don't believe any Real Alcoholic (tm) that says
> he doesn't.
>

Prefuckingzactly !!

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/23/2014 09:11 AM, Mark Warner wrote:

>
> It's common knowledge.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=bill+wilson+asks+for+drink+on+deathbed&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B7GGGL_enUS219US220&ie=UTF-8
>
>

Fuckin' Killjoy Warner....Shitting all over Mikey's Sacred Cow.

[jimbo]

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 1:23:05 PM UTC-5, Mark Warner wrote:
> To my knowledge, it's never been seriously challenged. Cheever is *not*
> an AA detractor,

Bill was banging Cheever's mother on visits to LA and would not leave Lois to set up house with her. As a consolation prize, Bill had her story published in the BB under the title "Freedom From Bondage.

BTW, she was a tall stacked red head with false teeth.

[Mark Warner]

On 11/23/2014 04:46 PM, jimbo wrote:
>
> BTW, she was a tall stacked red head with false teeth.

Talk about yer spiritual experience...

[Mark Warner]

That's *MR* Fuckin' Killjoy Warner to you, chucklehead.

[jimbo]

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 5:10:43 PM UTC-5, Mark Warner wrote:
> Talk about yer spiritual experience...

Maybe Bill had to take LSD to keep up with her.

[Tex]

Just curious where this information comes from.

[Charlie M. 1958]

You kidding? She was jimbo's sister.

[Socrates]

On 11/23/2014 11:11 AM, Mark Warner wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 01:33 PM, Fred Exley wrote:
>>
>> But that's just me. Anybody here wrestling with still craving alcohol?
>
> Craving? Naw. But I will admit to having a brief, wistful yearning on
> rare occasion... and I don't believe any Real Alcoholic (tm) that says
> he doesn't.

From today's LA Times:

9 out of 10 problem drinkers in the U.S. aren't alcoholics, study says:

You might think that people who throw back five or more drinks in a
single outing or who down 15 or more drinks in a week are likely to be
alcoholics. But a new study finds that the overwhelming majority of them
are not.

Only one out of 10 Americans who drank enough to qualify as a binge
drinker or an excessive drinker met the clinical definition for alcohol
dependence, according to a report released this week by the U.S. Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention.

That may be good news, the report authors say, because it means policy
makers can fight back against these dangerous drinking behaviors without
having to send legions of people to addiction treatment.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/621/article/p2p-82053473/

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/23/2014 05:59 PM, Mark Warner wrote:

>
> That's *MR* Fuckin' Killjoy Warner to you, chucklehead.
>

I stand corrected *Mr* Fuckface.

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/23/2014 08:02 PM, Charlie M. 1958 wrote:

> You kidding? She was jimbo's sister.

Damn, that was a shot...Funny as hell though.

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/23/2014 06:57 PM, Tex wrote:

>
> Just curious where this information comes from.
>

Unless Jimbo is taking his roll as AA Historian light-heartedly, I'd be
willing to take it to the bank...He seems to know his AA Trivia.

[Mike T.]

Mark Warner wrote:

>On 11/23/2014 08:35 AM, Mike T. wrote:
>>Fully_Recov...@AA-Is-A-Cult.org wrote:
>>>
>>>When Bill Wilson was on his deathbed, he wanted an alcoholic
>>>drink.
>>
>>Where is the proof that he asked for a drink?
>
>It's common knowledge.
>
>http://www.google.com/search?hl=&q=bill+wilson+asks+for+drink+on+deathbed&sourceid=navclient-ff&rlz=1B7GGGL_enUS219US220&ie=UTF-8

Right. So we have proof based upon one or two people saying so yet
there were hundreds of eyewitnesses detailing the life, death and
resurrection of Jesus. You choose to believe the one or two people
rather than all the others.

[Mike T.]

Fully_Recov...@AA-Is-A-Cult.org wrote:

>On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 02:28:05 +0000 (UTC), "Mike T."
><into.act...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Right. So we have proof based upon one or two people saying so yet
>>there were hundreds of eyewitnesses detailing the life, death and
>>resurrection of Jesus. You choose to believe the one or two people
>>rather than all the others.
>

>Can you prove there were hundreds of eyewitnesses detailing the life,
>death and resurrection of Jesus??????????
>
>I didn't think so!!!!!!!
>
>
>What was said about Bill W. is recent, spoken in English and in a time
>of modern commications, including documentation.
>
>There is absolutely no documentation of ANYTHING about Jesus. It's
>just words in a story book, written over 2000 years ago, in a
>language we dont fully understand.
>
>BIG DIFFERENCE!
>
>In 2000 years from now, someone will read the Cinderella story book
>and believe it was real too.....

No, the only difference is in what you CHOOSE to believe.

The bottom line is both sets of teachings have helped millions of
people clean up their lives and have a purpose in life. The only
purpose you have is to be an internet troll.

[Mark Warner]

Lessee here, which is more likely... a dying alcoholic asks for a drink,
or some guy rises from the dead? I dunno, kinda tough to decide.

[jimbo]

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 6:57:58 PM UTC-5, Tex wrote:
> Just curious where this information comes from.

Two published books that did not cast Bill W. in a good light.

[mgh]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 20:51:12 -0600,
Fully_Recov...@AA-Is-A-Cult.org wrote:
> In 2000 years from now, someone will read the Cinderella story book
and
> believe it was real too.....

Trailer for Zardoz (1974):
http://youtu.be/kbGVIdA3dx0

--

~
yea...

[Mark Warner]

Blasphemers! Stone them!

[Tex]

Written and published by who?

[jimbo]

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 10:34:17 PM UTC-5, Mark Warner wrote:
> > Two published books that did not cast Bill W. in a good light.
>
> Blasphemers! Stone them!

When people do controversial acts they invite criticism. Bill laid a bunch of eggs and they are getting tossed at the Fellowship.

AA has not been able to produce a history book about AA since 1957 and that book, AA Comes From Age is almost exact transcripts from tapes.

The Trustees are shit scared of any controversy and yet by their actions, they create it.

[jimbo]

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 11:24:50 PM UTC-5, Tex wrote:
> Written and published by who?

Francis Hartigan who was Lois Wilson's secretary and he felt that she was treated poorly and embarrassed by Bills having a mistress and leaving her BB royalties.

Also Bill sexual exploits often came home to roost. He really lays it all out.

Also Susan Cheever's book SHREDS Bill.

[Tex]

I ordered the books __ Cheever's stuff on the fix ... might shred him,
but seems imply even so he did some good?

[Socrates]

Have you heard......!!! Bill W. is a piker compared to Bill C.

[Mike T.]

Fully_Recov...@AA-Is-A-Cult.org wrote:

>I HATE AA, and I HATE CHRISTIANITY.


Yes, we are well aware of your hate for everything and if it wasn't
those two things you'd find something else to hate. You're just a
hateful person and aren't happy unless you're hating.

[Tex]

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:06:02 -0800, Socrates <empir...@wing-it.net>
wrote:

>Have you heard......!!! Bill W. is a piker compared to Bill C.

No I haven't heard that until now __ but then again these days one has
to stop and ponder __ which Bill C. __ :-)

[Socrates]

On 11/24/2014 4:27 AM, Tex wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 Socrates wrote:

>> Have you heard......!!! Bill W. is a piker compared to Bill C.

> No I haven't heard that until now __ but then again these days one has
> to stop and ponder __ which Bill C. __ :-)

The one getting raked over the coals in the media for alleged "sexual
exploits."

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/23/2014 09:28 PM, Mike T. wrote:

>

> Right. So we have proof based upon one or two people saying so yet
> there were hundreds of eyewitnesses detailing the life, death and
> resurrection of Jesus. You choose to believe the one or two people
> rather than all the others.
>

Hell, I'm not saying it definitely did not happen, but you must admit
that after over two thousand years, that a tale can really grow.

There are people alive that knew Bill W. Now, With the guy that some
believe was Jesus of Nazareth, there is nobody to verify, or to dispute
this claim.

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/23/2014 10:28 PM, Mark Warner wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 09:28 PM, Mike T. wrote:

>
> Lessee here, which is more likely... a dying alcoholic asks for a drink,
> or some guy rises from the dead? I dunno, kinda tough to decide.
>

That's cuz you're a heathen bastard who hasn't been saved...Open your
heart and let Jeebus in.

[Socrates]

On 11/24/2014 7:15 AM, Skeezix LaRocca wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 09:28 PM, Mike T. wrote:

>> Right. So we have proof based upon one or two people saying so yet
>> there were hundreds of eyewitnesses detailing the life, death and
>> resurrection of Jesus. You choose to believe the one or two people
>> rather than all the others.

> Hell, I'm not saying it definitely did not happen, but you must admit
> that after over two thousand years, that a tale can really grow.

Death fascinates humans, and probably always has. When paying respect
to the resurrected its can get a little tricky figuring which one to
choose. Here are the top 10: You could add Jesus and make it 11.

1. Dionysus
Dionysus is the Ancient Greek god of wine and divine madness. One of the
many names attached to him is "Twice-born."

2. Persephone
The daughter of the Greek goddess Demeter, deity of the harvest and of
growth.

3. Osiris
There are several versions of the myth of Osiris from Egypt, but all of
those related to his early life tell of his death and rebirth. Osiris
was not originally a god in his own right, but was at least partially
divine—and while on his path to godhood, Osiris would die and return to
life at least twice.

4. Odin
Odin is the chief god of Norse mythology, who gained great wisdom by
undergoing several trials. In order to achieve knowledge from beyond the
realm of the dead, Odin decided to sacrifice himself. He took a spear
and drove it into his side. Then he tied a noose to the world-tree
Yggdrasil, and hanged himself for nine days. It was after this
sacrifice that Odin returned, stronger than ever.

5. Ganesha
Ganesha was made by the goddess Pavarti and set to guard her chamber.
When Shiva attempted to enter, Ganesha did as he was told and tried to
stop him, whereupon Shiva cut off Ganesha’s head. Pavarti was peeved, so
Shiva decided to make up for his rash decapitation by returning Ganesha
to life, giving him a new head in the process.

6. Lemminkainen
In Finnish mythology, Lemminkainen is a hero who sets out on a mission
to capture one of the black swans from the river of the underworld. He
dies in the attempt, and his body sinks in the waters and is lost. The
body is broken on the rocks at the bottom, and his remains are
scattered. Lemminkainen’s mother comes in search of him and gathers
together all of the body parts, sewing them together. This does not
return her son to life, so she sends a bee to fetch some of the gods’
honey, which does the trick.

7. Tammuz
Tammuz was a Sumerian god of vegetation who is supposed to have started
out as a mortal king. When he was taken as a lover by the goddess Inanna
things became rather tricky. According to the Epic of Gilgamesh, all of
the beings loved by Ishtar (a Babylonian parallel of Inanna) end up
worse off for the love.

Tammuz was no different: he ended up in the kingdom of the dead. Inanna
supposedly relented, and went to rescue Tammuz and turn him into a god.
She did this not just once but many times. Each year Tammuz dies and the
world (at least in the Near East) is hit by droughts and extreme heat,
and when the rains come and the crops begin to grow, it is a sign that
Tammuz has once again been resurrected.

8. Krishna
According to the Mahabharata, another Hindu epic, Krishna is an
incarnation of the god Vishnu. The form of Krishna allowed the god to
better understand his creation and interact with his people. After many
adventures, wars, and explorations of the nature of the universe,
Krishna attends a festival. At this festival conflict breaks out and
Krishna retires to a wood to meditate. While he is contemplating under a
tree, a hunter mistakes him for a deer and fatally wounds him with an
arrow. Krishna dies and his body burned, but, being a god, he does not
decay and instead ascends to heaven.

9. Quetzalcoatl
One of the great gods of the various peoples of Mesoamerica. In
iconography he is usually shown as a feathered serpent. He was given
this frightening appearance in place of his formally ugly and
pock-marked face.

Once, when drunk, he called for his sister to be brought to him and had
proceeded to have sex with her. Sobering up, he was ashamed of what he
had done, and had himself placed in a sarcophagus and floated down a
river. Coming to rest on a river bank, he arranged his possessions into
a pyre and burned himself to death. His ashes rose into the air and
became birds, and his heart entered the sky as the Morning Star. After
four days in the underworld, he returned to heaven.

10. Attis
A Phrygian god who later entered the Greek and Roman pantheons as the
partner of the goddess Cybele. Like some of the other gods associated
with death and resurrection, Attis was a vegetation deity. He was born
from an almond nurtured in the body of a goddess. Attis was just about
to be married to a princess when the goddess Cybele showed up, throwing
Attis into a frenzy.

Maddened, he castrated himself and bled to death. Cybele relented and
brought Attis back to life, possibly resurrected in the form of a pine
tree. Each year the death of Attis was mourned as it led to the failure
of plants to grow. Come Spring, his resurrection was celebrated with the
ritual dressing of a pine tree.

[jimbo]

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 8:08:52 PM UTC-5, Socrates wrote:
> That may be good news, the report authors say, because it means policy
> makers can fight back against these dangerous drinking behaviors without
> having to send legions of people to addiction treatment.

Just say "no" works for these people!

[jimbo]

On Monday, November 24, 2014 10:43:25 AM UTC-5, Socrates wrote:
> Death fascinates humans, and probably always has.

Not me. Do most become obsessive as you seem to be turning the corner?

[jimbo]

On Monday, November 24, 2014 10:06:02 AM UTC-5, Socrates wrote:
> The one getting raked over the coals in the media for alleged "sexual
> exploits."

I was surprised that sexual assault is covered by a statute of limitation. He can't be charged but they can bruise him.

[jimbo]

On Monday, November 24, 2014 12:22:39 AM UTC-5, Tex wrote:
> I ordered the books __ Cheever's stuff on the fix ... might shred him,
> but seems imply even so he did some good?

This book by Matthew Raphael looks at Bill W and Mr. Wilson. Some of it seemed harsh but when multiple authors repeat stuff it gets weight.
http://www.amazon.ca/Bill-W-Mr-Wilson-Cofounder/dp/1558493603

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/24/2014 12:22 AM, Tex wrote:

>
> I ordered the books __ Cheever's stuff on the fix ... might shred him,
> but seems imply even so he did some good?
>

I did too & I'll bet you ordered the used copies, eh, you cheap bastid.

[Tex]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:05:32 -0800, Socrates <empir...@wing-it.net>
wrote:

Yes, I sort of figured as much on 2nd thought with is why I put the
:-) in there. Though based only on the little bit or what I have read
and heard I would think the comparison would be more to the other Bill
C. __ Hah ha!

Plenty of people have done good things and accomplished good things in
their lives __ while still having a darkside and even done awful
things __ certainly not an excuse for the darkside for sure __ but
doesn't automatically wipe the good.

I read Cheevor's piece on 'The Fix': a snippet__

"Bill Wilson was no saint. He smoked like a chimney and acted like a
pig—cheating on his loyal wife and demanding a glass of whisky on his
deathbed. Working with him was sometimes so difficult that decades
after his death, many colleagues were still angry at his behavior. The
January 1971 nurse's logs for his last days at Stepping Stones, the
house in Bedford Hills he shared with his wife, Lois, show an unhappy
man struggling for breath—he was dying of emphysema—who repeatedly
asked for a drink and was irritated when he didn’t get one.

And yet. If there is a special place in heaven reserved for those who
permanently change the world for the better, Bill W. is certainly
there."

______________

Though Jimbo says she shreds him __ she doesn't entirely flush him
down the toilet.

Smoking __ even back in my day wasn't such a negative __ and cheating
on a wife even a loyal one ... back in those days wasn't the so-called
crime it is today! Acting like a Pig is a pretty good description IMO.
As to the _ asking for the the whiskey on the death bed __ one of the
comments to the story covers that in such a manner that is pausable
(don't know if accurate or not __ How she has worked with dying
people, those dying in pain, how they somethime do and say all sorts
of things.

Not sayin that was the deal in Bill's case __ just that it is
possible. Even if he did actually ask for and seriously wanted a drink
on his death bed __ I for one am not running down and getting a bottle
nor going to quit doing what has been working for me.

Hell like the one comment said __ It just makes him more human to me.

[Tex]

You sound as if this is a bad thing?

I would think it would be a good thing not to waste all the time and
money on messing with people who don't need it.

I don't know about the big picture __ but the local small one worked
better when they judged each case and individual on it's own merits
instead of the blanket policies they now have in place locally.

But again what do I know __ not much really.

[Socrates]

On 11/24/2014 8:54 AM, jimbo wrote:

> On Monday, November 24, 2014 Socrates wrote:

>> Death fascinates humans, and probably always has.

> Not me.

"Humans" is plural because it applies to the /majority/ not the
terminally unique. "Always" is validated by historical records. Watch
TV, read the paper, or take note of recent threads started right here
and it is pretty clear how the subject "fascinates" and works as an
attention grabber. Google death statistics and you'll get "about
488,000,000 hits."

Of course there are always exceptions. Some legitimate truth seekers
who accept mortality, some true believers for whom it is but another
step (Heaven, Jannah and reincarnation for example) and of course some
in denial. The latter group can be dangerous (for reasons not obvious
to everyone).

> Do most become obsessive as you seem to be turning the corner?

Oh goodie, another Ph.D in the house. Should I get to a meeting and
seek out a hard assed old former drunk to help me with some tough love
and an attitude adjustment? Someone who could help me get to the
"sub-strata" and abandon the "flim-flam?"

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/24/2014 10:42 AM, Socrates wrote:

>
> Death fascinates humans, and probably always has. When paying respect
> to the resurrected its can get a little tricky figuring which one to
> choose. Here are the top 10: You could add Jesus and make it 11.
>

Thieving xian bastids...If you're going to lie, at least hire good writers.

[jimbo]

On Monday, November 24, 2014 1:10:05 PM UTC-5, Socrates wrote:
> Oh goodie, another Ph.D in the house. Should I get to a meeting and
> seek out a hard assed old former drunk to help me with some tough love
> and an attitude adjustment? Someone who could help me get to the
> "sub-strata" and abandon the "flim-flam?"

Just concerned about your mental health.

BTW, I accept mortality.

[Mark Warner]

On 11/23/2014 8:08 PM, Socrates wrote:
>
> From today's LA Times:
>
> 9 out of 10 problem drinkers in the U.S. aren't alcoholics, study says:
>
> You might think that people who throw back five or more drinks in a
> single outing or who down 15 or more drinks in a week are likely to be
> alcoholics. But a new study finds that the overwhelming majority of them
> are not.
>
> Only one out of 10 Americans who drank enough to qualify as a binge
> drinker or an excessive drinker met the clinical definition for alcohol
> dependence, according to a report released this week by the U.S. Centers
> for Disease Control and Prevention.

>
> That may be good news, the report authors say, because it means policy
> makers can fight back against these dangerous drinking behaviors without
> having to send legions of people to addiction treatment.

None of this should be any surprise to those of us that have seen the
parade of "problem drinkers" sent to meetings over the years.

Don't get me wrong, though, I was one of them, and I'm convinced I was
one of the 1 out of 10, so I'm glad they sent me.

As for the rest, hey, a period of forced abstinence shouldn't be a
problem for someone that's not alcohol dependent. And since I'm not
smart enough to be able to tell one from the other, I'm happy to see all
of them get the chance to find out for themselves.

--
Mark Warner
...lose .inhibitions when replying

[Tex]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:55:14 -0500, Mark Warner
<mhwarner.i...@gmail.com> wrote:

>And since I'm not
>smart enough to be able to tell one from the other, I'm happy to see all
>of them get the chance to find out for themselves.

Barf! Barf!

[Tex]

Yeah__ but I got the hard cover! Hah ha! No sense wasting roller dog
money you dummie!

[Mark Warner]

On 11/24/2014 2:09 PM, Tex wrote:
> <mhwarner.i...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> And since I'm not
>> smart enough to be able to tell one from the other, I'm happy to see all
>> of them get the chance to find out for themselves.
>
> Barf! Barf!

Fuck you! Fuck you!

[Tex]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 10:09:38 -0800, Socrates <empir...@wing-it.net>
wrote:

>Should I get to a meeting and
>seek out a hard assed old former drunk to help me with some tough love
>and an attitude adjustment?

Not a 'former' drunk, but a *real* sober alcoholic! Hah ha! Hell it
could be worth it just for the entertainment. :-)

[Socrates]

On 11/24/2014 9:32 AM, Tex wrote:

<snip>

> Not sayin that was the deal in Bill's case __ just that it is
> possible. Even if he did actually ask for and seriously wanted a drink
> on his death bed __ I for one am not running down and getting a bottle
> nor going to quit doing what has been working for me.

> Hell like the one comment said __ It just makes him more human to me.

When all is said and done, life comes down to a series of choices. From
the first time our mother slaps our hand and says "NO" until we wind up
on our death bed, we make choices and live with them. People make all
manner choices. Some people make the world a little better, most just
pass through.

http://postimg.org/image/klv6ux5pz/

[Mark Warner]

On 11/24/2014 2:13 PM, Socrates wrote:
>
> http://postimg.org/image/klv6ux5pz/

tiger barf

[Socrates]

On 11/24/2014 10:46 AM, jimbo wrote:

> On Monday, November 24, 2014 Socrates wrote:

>> Oh goodie, another Ph.D in the house. Should I get to a meeting and
>> seek out a hard assed old former drunk to help me with some tough love
>> and an attitude adjustment? Someone who could help me get to the
>> "sub-strata" and abandon the "flim-flam?"

> Just concerned about your mental health.

LOL, right. I tell you how much I appreciate that but it would violate
my commitment to "rigorous honesty." ;)

> BTW, I accept mortality.

Congratulations! Remember:

http://postimg.org/image/dy9lt9ba5/

[Socrates]

On 11/24/2014 11:13 AM, Tex wrote:

> On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 Socrates wrote:

>> Should I get to a meeting and seek out a hard assed old former drunk
>> to help me with some tough love and an attitude adjustment?

> Not a 'former' drunk, but a *real* sober alcoholic! Hah ha! Hell it
> could be worth it just for the entertainment. :-)

Just another routine news report of homicide. Yawn. :)

[Socrates]

Yep.

[Tex]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 11:13:28 -0800, Socrates <empir...@wing-it.net>
wrote:

Poor tedw calls it childhood trauma and decided not live with them but
to blame them.

My luck I would break out in hives and just let go so the tigers could
put me out of my misery!

[Socrates]

On 11/24/2014 11:25 AM, Mark Warner wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 2:13 PM, Socrates wrote:

>> http://postimg.org/image/klv6ux5pz/

> tiger barf

Don't fuck with me Mark, I'm turning the corner.

[Socrates]

LMAO, the perfect ending for a drunk, "let go....., let God."

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 11/24/2014 02:10 PM, Tex wrote:

>
> Yeah__ but I got the hard cover! Hah ha! No sense wasting roller dog
> money you dummie!
>

Don't be slippin' down to Barstow and trying to make time with my sweetie.

[Socrates]

On 11/24/2014 7:15 AM, Skeezix LaRocca wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 09:28 PM, Mike T. wrote:

>> Right. So we have proof based upon one or two people saying so yet
>> there were hundreds of eyewitnesses detailing the life, death and
>> resurrection of Jesus. You choose to believe the one or two people
>> rather than all the others.

> Hell, I'm not saying it definitely did not happen, but you must admit
> that after over two thousand years, that a tale can really grow.

Here's another little gem of mythology. (You would think at some point
a light would go on and folks could "find peace" /and/ spirituality
without insisting myths are facts)

Assyrian Winged Bull (883–859 B.C.):
http://postimg.org/image/clhy7s8rh/