AA Cults-Atlantic Group, Pacific Group, Midtown Group

[tedw]

AA Cults -The Atlantic Group -The Pacific Group -The Midtown Group and AA Guru Clancy I.

http://nadaytona.org/2013/08/03/aa-cults-the-atlantic-group-the-pacific-group-the-midtown-group-and-aa-guru-clancy-

excerpt:

Every year, to celebrate their anniversary, AG invites Clancy to speak at their meeting, hence the enormous crowd. On this evening, he told a story very familiar to AAs from the many tapes and conventions he has spoken at over the decades. He was entertaining, pausing for laughs and dramatic punctuation.

Midway, he used the word “goddamit.” A young man piped up from the balcony to say, “Excuse me Sir, we have no profanity at this meeting.” It was clear he was attempting a teasing tone. It was also clear he had misjudged the room. The enormous hall froze, not unlike in an abusive household when a child calls out their cruel father.

At that moment, as I fiddled with my name tag, I thought it would be a great chance to see long-term, revered sobriety in action. How would the man whose AA tapes had helped me stay sober 20 years earlier gracefully handle this interruption.

In the event, there was no empathy for the psychology of the newly sober young man. Instead, Clancy played to the crowd. He expertly waited a few beats of pin-dropping silence, then leaned in to the microphone and said, “Shut up Bitch.”

And then, hundreds of sober men and women burst into laughter. Some applauded, as if they were watching Louis CK take down a heckler. The young man turned bright red, and awkwardly raced out of the church. Of the several hundred attendees—many of whom claim to be “recovered” from alcoholism, and that their most important action each day is to “carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers”—not one followed the young man outside. Instead, they turned their attention to Clancy and lapped up the rest of his honed speech, in which he assured the room that their brand of sobriety was more solid, more real and more lasting than any other.

[Jimbo]

On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 11:29:22 PM UTC-4, tedw wrote:
> AA Cults -The Atlantic Group -The Pacific Group -The Midtown Group and AA Guru >Clancy I.

Boo hoo! I bet the kid learned that he needs to thicken up his skin.

[Sharxster]

"Jimbo" <jbl...@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:6289401d-c4ba-46e1...@googlegroups.com...

Perhaps. However if Clancy had REAL class, he would have simply
TOTALLY ignored the young man's comment.

[tedw]

If he had real class, he would have said "You are right. I apologize"

Promptly admit your wrong. You know. The steps. He could have worked one right there.

[Sharxster]

"tedw" <tedwe...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:01fdcb43-6138-4aeb...@googlegroups.com...

Good point.

[Bob]

Jeez - if I'd worn a suit and tie sans cap during my AA stint, I would
have looked as good as I could on the outside so my profanity would
have been disregarded. Crikey - I could have fitted in as just another
brother in Jimbo's AA.

But, on second thoughts, chances are I would have soon been drinking
again, thus losing my chance to endure this longevity - complete with
easily earned but not easily relenting decrepitude.

[tedw]

Probably is unfair to call all of AA a cult. However, it seems a pretty good characterization of some groups.

[Mike T.]

I'm no fan of Clancy I. and believe his only purpose in AA is to
provide comedic relief to those who are only looking to be entertained
by the speaker.

About ten years ago Clancy, Don M. (Kentucky), and my wife were the AA
speakers at a roundup in Salem, VA. They each told their stories and
were panelists for a couple workshops over a period of two days.
Clancy was his usual rude, smug self and all he did was tell stories
about others and crack jokes. Don M. was fantastic and really
connected with the audience. My wife was in rare form and didn't get
intimidated by the two AA giants. During smoke breaks I overheard
people rating the speakers amongst themselves and nearly all put Clancy
at the bottom. And no, they didn't know I was related to the woman
speaker.

[Jimbo]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 9:08:48 AM UTC-4, mike t wrote:

> I'm no fan of Clancy I. and believe his only purpose in AA is to
> provide comedic relief to those who are only looking to be entertained
> by the speaker.

Seems to me that that is what most of the groups are looking for. For a guy who stinks, how is that he is on the road just about every weekend?

> During smoke breaks I overheard
> people rating the speakers amongst themselves and nearly all put Clancy
> at the bottom. And no, they didn't know I was related to the woman
> speaker.

Do they use a form to rate. Different strokes for different folks. Obviously Clancy did his job by comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable.

[Jimbo]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:48:25 AM UTC-4, Bob wrote:
> Jeez - if I'd worn a suit and tie sans cap during my AA stint, (big snip)

If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle.

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 10/16/2013 09:28 AM, Jimbo wrote:

>
> Seems to me that that is what most of the groups are looking for. For a guy who stinks, how is that he is on the road just about every weekend?
>

This is just a possibility, but many AA's are assholes...Birds of a
feather, etc.
--
Dr. Skeezix LaRocca, D.B. (Doctor Of Buffoonery)
Registered Linux Novice & Abuser #526706
We aren't cheap, but we're reasonable
No appointment needed

[Dexter]

"Skeezix LaRocca" <fatl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message...

> On 10/16/2013 09:28 AM, Jimbo wrote:
>
>>
>> Seems to me that that is what most of the groups are
>> looking for. For a guy who stinks, how is that he is on
>> the road just about every weekend?
>>
>
> This is just a possibility, but many AA's are assholes...
> Birds of a feather, etc.

> _________________________________________

More to the point, AAs are human with all the
attendant flaws. No belief system can completely
eradicate those flaws.

--
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
--- Blaise Pascal.

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 10/15/2013 11:29 PM, tedw wrote:
> AA Cults -The Atlantic Group -The Pacific Group -The Midtown Group
> and AA Guru Clancy I.
>
> http://nadaytona.org/2013/08/03/aa-cults-the-atlantic-group-the-pacific-group-the-midtown-group-and-aa-guru-clancy-
>
> excerpt:
>
> Every year, to celebrate their anniversary, AG invites Clancy to
> speak at their meeting, hence the enormous crowd. On this evening, he
> told a story very familiar to AAs from the many tapes and conventions
> he has spoken at over the decades. He was entertaining, pausing for
> laughs and dramatic punctuation.
>

> Midway, he used the word �goddamit.� A young man piped up from the
> balcony to say, �Excuse me Sir, we have no profanity at this
> meeting.� It was clear he was attempting a teasing tone. It was also

> clear he had misjudged the room. The enormous hall froze, not unlike
> in an abusive household when a child calls out their cruel father.
>
> At that moment, as I fiddled with my name tag, I thought it would be
> a great chance to see long-term, revered sobriety in action. How
> would the man whose AA tapes had helped me stay sober 20 years
> earlier gracefully handle this interruption.
>
> In the event, there was no empathy for the psychology of the newly
> sober young man. Instead, Clancy played to the crowd. He expertly
> waited a few beats of pin-dropping silence, then leaned in to the

> microphone and said, �Shut up Bitch.�

>
> And then, hundreds of sober men and women burst into laughter. Some
> applauded, as if they were watching Louis CK take down a heckler. The
> young man turned bright red, and awkwardly raced out of the church.

> Of the several hundred attendees�many of whom claim to be �recovered�

> from alcoholism, and that their most important action each day is to

> �carry the message to the alcoholic who still suffers��not one

> followed the young man outside. Instead, they turned their attention
> to Clancy and lapped up the rest of his honed speech, in which he
> assured the room that their brand of sobriety was more solid, more
> real and more lasting than any other.
>

Maybe it is just me, but any meeting that brings in one of these well
known AA circuit speakers, especially one that they fly in at the groups
expense, is a meeting I will give a pass to.

Early on, I heard a few of these folks, and all I could think was...Nice
routine.

[Jimbo]

On Wednesday, October 16, 2013 1:03:29 PM UTC-4, Skeezix LaRocca wrote:
> Maybe it is just me, but any meeting that brings in one of these well
> known AA circuit speakers, especially one that they fly in at the groups
> expense, is a meeting I will give a pass to.

Exactly. Most AA's want to be entertained.

Recently I went to a Sunday night meeting with an out of town friend. The speaker was a 35 year old woman who had two biker brothers who raped her thru her teens and one night she slit their throats and got two life terms.

She described the horrors of rape and doing time and then she went to a prison AA group.

People were hanging on the edge of their seats as she gave a blow by blow account and a standing ovation when she finished.

I commented to my friend that she had never mention drinking or drugs and she spoke to the speaker who confirmed that she did not drink or drug.

I've often thought that the best speaker would be a woman who claims to have been molested by Bill W's and then murdered 10 AA gurus and then became a nun.

Such is the state of AA.

[tedw]

That's about right. Not to much different than the mega churches which I call ""Holy Ghost Entertainment Centers".

Don't confuse either with the real Spiritual or Religious Awakening.

[Socrates]

On 10/16/2013 8:50 AM, Dexter wrote:
> "Skeezix LaRocca" <fatl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message...
>> On 10/16/2013 09:28 AM, Jimbo wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Seems to me that that is what most of the groups are looking for. For
>>> a guy who stinks, how is that he is on the road just about every
>>> weekend?
>>>
>>
>> This is just a possibility, but many AA's are assholes...
>> Birds of a feather, etc.
>> _________________________________________
>
> More to the point, AAs are human with all the attendant flaws. No belief
> system can completely eradicate those flaws.

Ironically, when I read this post, I had just bookmarked page 115 of
Louis Pojman's book "Philosophy" (The Pursuit of Wisdom) where the
heading is "Evolution and Evil." Couldn't resist sharing:

"Theists may have good reason to fear evolutionary theory and support
creationist accounts of the origin of life and human beings, for
evolution proposes a radical alternative paradigm to a theistic,
purposive creation. This point can now be employed to undermine theism
with regard to evil.

Evolution holds that evil is not the result of Satan's sin or Adam's
fall or human misuse of free will, but rather the consequence of the
species developing adaptive strategies that tend to be accompanied by
pain, suffering, unhappiness, and conflicts of interest, the major
categories of evil.

Human aggressivity may be adaptive in hunting and defending one's self
against predators, but in social groups, in the face conflicts of
interest, it tends to be maladaptive, causing suffering, injury and
death. Use of reason is necessary for social cooperation and
coexistence, but the instincts of our ancestor species were more
reliable and efficient.

But we are not Lions, we /deliberate/ whether to kill or copulate. A
Lion's instinct does not include guilt, shame, remorse or worry about
violating someones rights. Of course, the point is *not* that we should
go back to the state of the noble /savage/.

The point is:

Each evolutionary adaptive strategy tends to incur a loss of some other
virtue or capability, and this is what accounts for evil. What we call
/moral/ /evil/ is simply part of the natural evolutionary process,
which, as Tennyson pointed out, "is red in tooth and claw." Much, if
not most, of moral or man-made evil is the "unintended" result of
Nature's making us creatures with insatiable wants, but limited
resources and sympathies.

This evolutionary account of the origins of evil is confirmable by
scientific research, whereas the religious accounts of the origin of
evil have less impressive credentials. How do we recreate or confirm
the record of the fall of Adam and Eve? The naturalistic account holds
that we do not need myths or dogmas about the fall or original sin.

Simply investigating evolutionary processes of adaptation is sufficient
as an explanation for our greatest problems. Evil has a biological
basis, being simply the inextricable concomitant of characteristics that
served (and still serve) an adaptive function. [end quotes]

Footnote:
Interesting bit that kind of underlines how slowly things move in this
quote from a link about the above mentioned Tennyson poem:

In writing the poem, Tennyson was influenced by the ideas of evolution
presented in Vestiges of the Natural History of Creation which had been
published in 1844, and had caused a storm of controversy about the
theological implications of impersonal nature functioning without direct
divine intervention. The fundamentalist idea of unquestioning belief in
revealed truth taken from a literal interpretation of the Bible was
already in conflict with the findings of science, and Tennyson expressed
the difficulties evolution raised for faith in "the truths that never
can be proved".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Memoriam_A.H.H.

[Mark Warner]

On 10/15/2013 11:29 PM, tedw wrote:

> Clancy played to the crowd. He expertly waited a few beats of pin-dropping silence, then leaned in to the microphone and said, “Shut up Bitch.”

Good comeback. If people don't want to be put in their place, they
shouldn't heckle the speaker.

The idea of a bunch of drunks getting all bent out of shape over some
coarse language just makes me shake my head. How soon they forget where
they came from and who it is they need to relate to.

On the extremely rare occasion that I'm asked to speak, I warn whoever
is asking that I don't pull any punches and that my language my be
offensive to some. I also say the same thing at the beginning of my talk.

After that, fuck 'em.

--
Mark Warner
MEPIS Linux
Registered Linux User #415318
...lose .inhibitions when replying

[Sharxster]

"Mark Warner" <mhwarner.i...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bc8o1a...@mid.individual.net...

> On 10/15/2013 11:29 PM, tedw wrote:
>> Clancy played to the crowd. He expertly waited a few beats of
>> pin-dropping silence, then leaned in to the microphone and said,
>> “Shut up Bitch.”
>
> Good comeback. If people don't want to be put in their place,
> they shouldn't heckle the speaker.
>
> The idea of a bunch of drunks getting all bent out of shape over
> some coarse language just makes me shake my head. How soon they
> forget where they came from and who it is they need to relate to.
>
> On the extremely rare occasion that I'm asked to speak, I warn
> whoever is asking that I don't pull any punches and that my
> language my be offensive to some. I also say the same thing at
> the beginning of my talk.
>
> After that, fuck 'em.

In GRADE SIX I was disciplined twice and suspended once for using
and/or writing "coarse" language. Over the years I've used and
heard the foulest language imaginable--both in and out of AA. It
doesn't have much effect on me. However, when I SPEAK at an AA
meeting, 99.99% of the time, I do NOT curse. Reason: there are LOTS
of non-vulgar synonyms for every curse word--it's only NECESSARY to
use foul language when one's education is so limited that they,
basically, learned their English (or whatever other tongue) on the
streets. For all others with at least a grade school education,
cursing during an AA speech is NOT necessary, for ANY REASON. One
can communicate just as effectively using the Queen's English--ask
anyone familiar with Toastmasters International.

[Skeezix LaRocca]

On 10/16/2013 08:07 PM, Mark Warner wrote:

>
> Good comeback. If people don't want to be put in their place, they
> shouldn't heckle the speaker.
>
> The idea of a bunch of drunks getting all bent out of shape over some
> coarse language just makes me shake my head. How soon they forget where
> they came from and who it is they need to relate to.
>
> On the extremely rare occasion that I'm asked to speak, I warn whoever
> is asking that I don't pull any punches and that my language my be
> offensive to some. I also say the same thing at the beginning of my talk.
>
> After that, fuck 'em.
>

How true...You get a newcomer who comes in, and every other word is an f
bomb, and who was boffing his neighbor on the side, and treated their
family like shit, but give them 6 months and they have the big book
under one arm, the bible under the other, now anytime someone says fuck,
they moan and wail like a wounded fawn.

Also, these moral high grounders, kind of like this one old guy I
know...He loved to potificate as to how he was a snake in the grass who
screwed around on his wife all the time, but does not do that any
longer, thanks to the program, and his higher power, bla bla bla, etc.

This sharp young guy popped up one day after hearing his routine for the
umpteenth time and said...Fuck you...You stopped doing it because you're
too old to get it up.

[Mark Warner]

On 10/17/2013 9:06 AM, Skeezix LaRocca wrote:
>
> How true...You get a newcomer who comes in, and every other word is an f
> bomb, and who was boffing his neighbor on the side, and treated their
> family like shit, but give them 6 months and they have the big book
> under one arm, the bible under the other, now anytime someone says fuck,
> they moan and wail like a wounded fawn.

One of my home group members is Rose, an 80-year-old proper lady, very
well spoken, a retired newswriter, and quite elegant in her appearance
and bearing.

She will occasionally share that one of the tools she uses the most is
the Chicago Serenity Prayer: "Fuck it."

--
Mark Warner
...lose .inhibitions when replying

[Mike T.]

Mark Warner wrote:

>Chicago Serenity Prayer: "Fuck it."

Sounds like Chicago is trying to usurp what's always been referred to
as the short version of the Serenity Prayer.

[johnjakl...@gmail.com]

[johnjakl...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, October 15, 2013 at 8:29:22 PM UTC-7, tedw wrote:

[tootall...@gmail.com]

Most groups are NOT like the Pacific group....thank God.