"Recovered" AA members

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Ted L.

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Dec 11, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/11/97
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In article <66qd8r$2dp$1...@excalibur.flash.net>, mcma...@flash.net (Jim
McMahon) wrote:

> What about the "*real* alcoholic", "friggin' drunk!", "grateful
> alcoholic","alcoholic and also...", "dually addicted","just visiting",
> and "recovering alcoholic"?

We've got a guy who almost always introduces himself as "drunken sailor"
(when you hear his story you know why.)

Ted L.

Benedictus, qui venit in nomine Domini.

phil rupp

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
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I got some more thoughts. I think my discomfort with several fellow
AA's calling themselves "recovered" is that they seperate themselves
from the group--its not the letter of the law (are we"recovered" or
what not) but why out of 25 "I'm an alcoholics" does one guy pipe in
"I'm a recovered alcoholic".

When i was a kid i was picked on, excluded, singled out ( not the
whole time, but enough) I assume this has something to do with it--i
also wanted to be special, different--a celebrity, a star, an alien,
the number one man, you know.

So here I am uncomfortable by anothers "differentness".


Michael D

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
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tor...@interport.net (phil rupp) wrote:

>I got some more thoughts. I think my discomfort with several fellow
>AA's calling themselves "recovered" is that they seperate themselves
>from the group

I can understand people feeling that way. It may also be said that
those members who describe ourselves as "recovered" might feel that it
is the "recovering" group that is separating themselves.

>--its not the letter of the law (are we"recovered" or
>what not)

I certainly agree with this, recovered or recovering, as long as we
aren't drinking.

> but why out of 25 "I'm an alcoholics" does one guy pipe in
>"I'm a recovered alcoholic".

I'm not sure of that ratio, nor do I know what others think. As far as
I am concerned, if "recovered" was how Bill W described the first
"100", it's good enough for me.

>When i was a kid i was picked on, excluded, singled out ( not the
>whole time, but enough) I assume this has something to do with it--i
>also wanted to be special, different--a celebrity, a star, an alien,
>the number one man, you know.

I understand that, having also having excluded when I was young, but
must say that I do not feel that way today.

>So here I am uncomfortable by anothers "differentness".

Again, I understand. I am not uncomfortable with other's
"differentness" today, but believe it is something to be celebrated.
I think that we are probably all poured out of the same mold, but the
little bumps and valleys can be a little different without it
endangering our sobriety or our lives.

As I said, whether others use "..ed" or "..ing" is of little
significance to me. Whether I use it is significant to me. I do noit
believe I am or will be "sick" forever, nor do I feel I am constantly
and forever in the process of recovering. Except perhaps in the sense
that we are born, or become, flawed, in this sense perhaps all humans
are the same. The humans I know outside of AA do not describe
themselves as recovering, so it looks to me like it doesn't apply in
that case. And I add that I take my sobriety and my practice of AA
principles very seriously, like other aspects of my life I work on all
the time, perhaps more in an integrated manner than isolated targets.

Michael D, New Brunswick, Canada

e-mail: mjdal"at"nbnet.nb.ca - replace "at" with
@
courriel: mjdal"à"nbnet.nb.ca - remplacer "à" par
@

Jim McMahon

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
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tor...@interport.net (phil rupp) wrote:

>I got some more thoughts. I think my discomfort with several fellow
>AA's calling themselves "recovered" is that they seperate themselves

>from the group--its not the letter of the law (are we"recovered" or
>what not) but why out of 25 "I'm an alcoholics" does one guy pipe in


>"I'm a recovered alcoholic".

What about the "*real* alcoholic", "friggin' drunk!", "grateful


alcoholic","alcoholic and also...", "dually addicted","just visiting",
and "recovering alcoholic"?

If you subtract them from the 25, plus the "recovered alcoholic"
already subtracted, you're down to only 17 generic "alcoholics".

If you then start subtracting those who state their first and last
names from those who state their first names only, and those who say
"alcoholic" before their name from those who say their name first, and
those who state a sobriety date from those who don't, you're bound to
have 10 or 15 disparate little cliques in that meeting of 25.

Heck, separate just a little bit further, maybe based on "John" versus
"Jim" versus "Sally", and what you'll have is a darned group of 25
*individuals*, gathered together for a common purpose.


>When i was a kid i was picked on, excluded, singled out ( not the
>whole time, but enough) I assume this has something to do with it--i
>also wanted to be special, different--a celebrity, a star, an alien,
>the number one man, you know.

>So here I am uncomfortable by anothers "differentness".

Focus on the common purpose and you'll likely forget the irrelevant
differences.


Being ordinary and nothing special is a full-time job.
mcma...@flash.net (Jim McMahon in real life)


David M

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
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Have you ever read Kurt Vonnegut's short story "The Handicapper
General", Phil? Try it. You'll love it. It's about a future where
people decide everyone must be the same and do whatever is necessary
to make it so.


On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:29:36 GMT, tor...@interport.net (phil rupp)
wrote:

>I got some more thoughts. I think my discomfort with several fellow
>AA's calling themselves "recovered" is that they seperate themselves
>from the group--its not the letter of the law (are we"recovered" or
>what not) but why out of 25 "I'm an alcoholics" does one guy pipe in
>"I'm a recovered alcoholic".
>

Reuben Muns

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
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tor...@interport.net (phil rupp) wrote:

>I got some more thoughts. I think my discomfort with several fellow
>AA's calling themselves "recovered" is that they seperate themselves
>from the group--its not the letter of the law (are we"recovered" or
>what not) but why out of 25 "I'm an alcoholics" does one guy pipe in
>"I'm a recovered alcoholic".
>

If it bothers you to hear others call themselves "non-standard"
names, you should avoid my home group. Lord knows what they may
say on any given night. Near the beginning of the meeting we each
identify ourself. Most of us just say something like "I'm Reuben.
I'm an alcoholic". But our "Chicago contingent", consisting of
several natives of Chicago, follow the pattern set by the Atheist
with 49 years: "Wally, powerless over alcohol". Some of the
members occasionaly say something like "I'm Chuck, a recovered
alcoholic". And there's Jay, who is liable to come up with stuff
like "I'm Jay and I think I may have a problem with alcohol".

Reuben

Reuben Muns

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
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mcma...@flash.net (Jim McMahon) wrote:

>What about the "*real* alcoholic", "friggin' drunk!", "grateful
>alcoholic","alcoholic and also...", "dually addicted","just visiting",
>and "recovering alcoholic"?
>

You forgot the "grateful alcoholic" and variations like one
regular attendee of my home group "grateful to be an alcoholic".

Reuben

Lech K. Lesiak

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
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On 12 Dec 1997, Reuben Muns wrote:

> You forgot the "grateful alcoholic" and variations like one
> regular attendee of my home group "grateful to be an alcoholic".

A response I once heard to the ' grateful to be an alcoholic' cliche was
'Then you'll be fuckin' ecstatic when you get AIDS'. I am no more
grateful to be an alcoholic than I am grateful to have blue eyes - it's
something that happened and I have to live with it.

Cheers,
Lech

'Spiritual growth is a tobacco byproduct' - anon


teeray

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
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Yeah. And tinted contac lenses will take care of that *eye color
problem in a heartbeat. My mom bought me an actual pair of Rose Colored
Glasses for my birthday. :) Now I have an excuse for seeing things the
way I do :)

blessings
teeray

blessings
teeray

Lefty

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
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Phil,
It does not pay to get caught up in semantics. Some people say recovering
and some people say recovered. I even knew one person who always introduced
himself as a "real alcoholic." What matters is that we are all here with a
common problems to which AA offers a common solution. Some choose to take
this way out and some do not. But those of us who do eventually learn to
deal with those things that make us uncomfortable. As the book says, "we
will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us."
Good luck and god bless. . .
Lefty
phil rupp wrote in message <66q0ep$mfs$1...@broadway.interport.net>...

>I got some more thoughts. I think my discomfort with several fellow
>AA's calling themselves "recovered" is that they seperate themselves
>from the group--its not the letter of the law (are we"recovered" or
>what not) but why out of 25 "I'm an alcoholics" does one guy pipe in
>"I'm a recovered alcoholic".
>

Sean

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
to

AWSOME story... I remember it well.

Scary, too. Society seems to be slooowly moving towards the lowest common
denominator attitude that society in that story had. I'm just waiting for
the day *I* get forced to wear earphones that blast noise so I can't
think <G>

Sean

David M wrote:

> Have you ever read Kurt Vonnegut's short story "The Handicapper
> General", Phil? Try it. You'll love it. It's about a future where
> people decide everyone must be the same and do whatever is necessary
> to make it so.
>
> On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 00:29:36 GMT, tor...@interport.net (phil rupp)
> wrote:
>

> >I got some more thoughts. I think my discomfort with several fellow
> >AA's calling themselves "recovered" is that they seperate themselves
> >from the group--its not the letter of the law (are we"recovered" or
> >what not) but why out of 25 "I'm an alcoholics" does one guy pipe in
> >"I'm a recovered alcoholic".
> >
> >When i was a kid i was picked on, excluded, singled out ( not the
> >whole time, but enough) I assume this has something to do with it--i
> >also wanted to be special, different--a celebrity, a star, an alien,
> >the number one man, you know.
> >
> >So here I am uncomfortable by anothers "differentness".

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Random quote taken from alt.devilbunnies:

> Nobody's on trial here, but if you can't provide a better solution,
then
> arguing with the current one gets you absolutely nowhere.
>

Until you can admit you're wrong, you'll resist new definitions. It's
part of that 12-steps thing, I think.

> Brain-death still counts as killing.
>

<pause> I'll concide that point.

> > I'd rather not, Deuce. No sense in pushing my luck any further than
I
> >already have.
>
> So what *are* you going to do, then? How will you get them before
> they get you?
>

I.. have plans.


[damned if I know what that was all about, but it gave me a
chuckle...-Sean]
------------------------------------------------------------
Danger is nature's way of eliminating stupid people.
Without safety, stupid people die in accidents. Since the
dead don't produce, our species becomes progressively more
intelligent (or at least less stupid).

With safety, however, well-intentioned as it may be, we
are devolving into half witted mutants, because idiots, who
by all rights should be dead, are spared from their rightful
early graves and are free to breed even more imbeciles.

-- Taken from an anonymous post to Alt.Illuminati
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Sean

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Dec 12, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/12/97
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Jim McMahon wrote:

> Is that the one where the stronger and more athletic people, including
> I think a beatuiful ballerina, are forced to carry weighs until one
> day they toss off their shackles and take over the TV station?

Yah, that's the one. And they get killed for their trouble, and the guy's
parents watch it happen on TV, and the handicapper general has them so
wired up to gizmo's that impair their thought that they can't remember it
right after it happens...

Jim McMahon

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Dec 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/13/97
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dm...@worldnet.att.net (David M) wrote:

>Have you ever read Kurt Vonnegut's short story "The Handicapper
>General", Phil? Try it. You'll love it. It's about a future where
>people decide everyone must be the same and do whatever is necessary
>to make it so.

Is that the one where the stronger and more athletic people, including


I think a beatuiful ballerina, are forced to carry weighs until one
day they toss off their shackles and take over the TV station?

Sorry if these are disjointed images, but I *think* I remember the
story you refer to.

Jim McMahon

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Dec 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/13/97
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rm...@primenet.com (Reuben Muns) wrote:

>mcma...@flash.net (Jim McMahon) wrote:

>>What about the "*real* alcoholic", "friggin' drunk!", "grateful
>>alcoholic","alcoholic and also...", "dually addicted","just visiting",
>>and "recovering alcoholic"?
>>

>You forgot the "grateful alcoholic" and variations like one
>regular attendee of my home group "grateful to be an alcoholic".

>Reuben

No, I didn't forget it. You missed it. Look again, though I'm sure
there are numerous variations which I haven't even heard yet.

JOHN&JENS

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Dec 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/13/97
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I consider myself a recovering alcoholic. I have made enough mistakes in
the past to realize that it is always in the present tense for me.
As for those who consider themselves recovered, well, that's fine for them
if it works for them. My experience, however, tells me that when I think I
am recovered I am in big trouble.
And I suppose if I was recovered then I wouldn't have to spend time reading
all this !@#$ would I? (or posting!)


Grace

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Dec 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/13/97
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Depends upon whether you consider "recovered" to be a synonym for "cure".
You may want to check a dictionary.

Grace

--
Trust thyself:every heart vibrates to that iron string.
R.W. Emerson

Jeff and Angela

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Dec 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/13/97
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phil rupp wrote:
>
> I got some more thoughts. I think my discomfort with several fellow
> AA's calling themselves "recovered" is that they seperate themselves
> from the group--its not the letter of the law (are we"recovered" or
> what not) but why out of 25 "I'm an alcoholics" does one guy pipe in
> "I'm a recovered alcoholic".
>
> When i was a kid i was picked on, excluded, singled out ( not the
> whole time, but enough) I assume this has something to do with it--i
> also wanted to be special, different--a celebrity, a star, an alien,
> the number one man, you know.
>
> So here I am uncomfortable by anothers "differentness".

I believe we can be "recovered" mainly because I feel that way and the
Book says so, "We are more than 100 men and women who have recovered
from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body." Sponsor tells me not
to forget that I've not been cured of anything. I do feel recovered,
but on a regular basis I recieve indication that I'm not cured.

Those in my group who use "recovered" as an identifier, truly are, in my
opinion, recovered. They say recovered not to set themselves apart, but
to identify to the newcomer, that I was once hopeless (like the
newcomer) but now I'm not.

Jeff H

Fred Brumley

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Dec 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/13/97
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On Sat, 13 Dec 1997 00:43:36 GMT in ARAA history, article
<66slu3$e7v$1...@excalibur.flash.net> from mcma...@flash.net (Jim McMahon)
contained:

>dm...@worldnet.att.net (David M) wrote:
>
>>Have you ever read Kurt Vonnegut's short story "The Handicapper
>>General", Phil? Try it. You'll love it. It's about a future where
>>people decide everyone must be the same and do whatever is necessary
>>to make it so.
>
>Is that the one where the stronger and more athletic people, including
>I think a beatuiful ballerina, are forced to carry weighs until one
>day they toss off their shackles and take over the TV station?
>
>Sorry if these are disjointed images, but I *think* I remember the
>story you refer to.
>
>

>Being ordinary and nothing special is a full-time job.
>mcma...@flash.net (Jim McMahon in real life)

I remember that storyline from a made-for-TV movie...an movie adaption of
Vonnegut's work. The name of the movie is "Harrison Bergeron" (a.k.a. " Kurt
Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron", made in Canada, in 1995). I found it in the
Sci-Fi section of a video store...then, about a week later, it was on TV.

Anyway, here's the URL for an essay that gives some more background info.:
http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/4953/bergeron.html

Fred


ernie

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Dec 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/14/97
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I'v been trying to get sober for over 15 year's, the most time i put
together was 3 years. ever time i come out a rehab i stay away from a drink
or a drug for a year and then im back in the races.
this is my first day back after another attempt a trying to get high. and
when i do get this feeling i well go back to the rooms in hope's of hearing
something that will keep comeing back.
im 45 and my life sometimes feel over. i blowing the new chance i have i
life by picking up again. i even got back in school my GED and a start in
this college but with midterms and my lack of confidence im back in the
races.
my self-esteem is at it's a real low point.
if i don't stop now i will not only mess up school, but also the rest of my
life.
I don't think i can ever get sober, just clean and dry, a day at a time and
hope for the best. when i had my clean and dry times in the room, there
were days i felt sober and then there were day's i just felt clean and dry.
sobrity is just a additude or a state of mind. for me anyway.
i guess that because for me i can fell real sober one day and wake up the
next day on a dry drunk over additude.
later er...@inch.com


MartyB

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Dec 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/14/97
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Gary E. <gar...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<3492aa24....@nntp.ix.netcom.com>...

| On 13 Dec 1997 14:04:30 GMT, "JOHN&JENS" <nyca...@gte.net> wrote:
|
| >>>I consider myself a recovering alcoholic. I have made enough mistakes in
| >>>the past to realize that it is always in the present tense for me.
| >>>As for those who consider themselves recovered, well, that's fine for
them
| >>>if it works for them. My experience, however, tells me that when I think
I
| >>>am recovered I am in big trouble.
| >>>And I suppose if I was recovered then I wouldn't have to spend time
reading
| >>>all this !@#$ would I? (or posting!)
|
| It's what most alcoholics love to do...waste time arguing about who's
| right. We don't really know, so we make bold claims and then spend
| hours upon hours defending them. And it's not about truth because
| whatever the truth of the matter is, will still be that way. If there
| is a *real* question involved, it might be more to the idea of 'what
| is the state of my alcoholism?' Inactive. Can it be activated? Of
| course, by a simple decision to drink. Will drinking again reactivate
| my alcoholism? (This is not theory, is it? I mean, even science
| hasn't yet found a cure, complete and total cure for alcoholism,
| right?). Answer: yes.

There's much here I agree with, Gary. One of the biggest growth areas
for me has been to recognize when I'm falling back into my old ways
of "Black or White" thinking. "Right or Wrong". "Good or Bad."
"All or Nothing." "Ecstasy or Agony."

Learning to live in the real world, where few things are as clear cut
as that, where there are whole shades of meanings and perspectives
between those extremes has been a difficult, and yet, tremendously
freeing experience. Though I still fall back into this line of thinking,
I have found those times I am best able to accept being somewhere
in between are those times when I am in good spiritual condition.
It's when I jump back in the driver's seat that I try to reduce the world
around me into absolutes. When I am able to just give it my best try
and not obsess about the outcomes, shades of gray occasionally
turn into a whole rainbow of feelings and perspectives that I never
knew existed when I was drinking.


| Curiosity qustion. What was Bill intending to say when he wrote the
| word, 'recovered.' Since he didn't leave any messages, we have to
| speculate. One good speculation might be that in 'selling' AA in the
| early days, he had to be as confident and write as confidently as he
| could. He couldn't waffle or suppose or guess. If he did, then the
| impact of what he was trying to do would be diminished. AA might not
| even survive. Certainly an alcoholic looking for help would likely
| not try anything just to see if it worked. So Bill wrote boldly and
| with great confidence. One might even think he used hyperbole.

Very well put, Gary.


| The fact that today, there is all this haggling over what words mean
| proves what I think was Bill's concern. He was not able, as it turned
| out, to cover every base that later 'legalistic' alcoholics would want
| to examine. By then the words were frozen in time and we all know
| that going back and editing the BB is an illusion since it has now
| taken on the cloak of 'scripture.' It is now "holy" words, not to be
| changed but to be only interpreted so that those who love to deal with
| gnats will have plenty to do.

"It's impossible to making anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
Yet, if the big book were not written down, I shudder to think of what
we would. Can you imagine relying instead on word-of-mouth?
<cringe>


| Fortunately, for many, the 'spirit of AA' still exists. Those broader
| statements which create a helping hand to suffering alcoholics without
| discrimination. And notwithstanding the pressure of conformity, the
| ability to house great diversity, even the kind of diversity which
| stands AA reliance on God or a Higher Power on its head. So far, this
| spirt has survived the attempts to tame it into 'one voice', 'one
| way', dogma, orthodoxy, and the like. It is what keeps AA alive, not
| the arguments over such minutiae as 'recovery versus recovered.'
|
| Best,
| Gary

With all of the eloquence at my command, I am generally unable to
convey with any clarity using mere words what I have experienced
as the "spirit of AA". Heck, I can't even explain it to myself! <g>
But, my inability does not make the experience any less valid.
When I see others come into the halls and get their first glimpse
of this "spirit", to see the light shine in their eyes, to see them gain
hope, to see life awaken within; it's in those moments when I am
touched in that special place and I feel renewed in life, too.
--
Go gently.
MartyB
--
note: remove any SPAM before replying.


David M

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Dec 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/14/97
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On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 20:19:33 -0500, Sean <se...@snerts-r-us.org> wrote:

>AWSOME story... I remember it well.
>
>Scary, too. Society seems to be slooowly moving towards the lowest common
>denominator attitude that society in that story had. I'm just waiting for
>the day *I* get forced to wear earphones that blast noise so I can't
>think <G>
>

Judging by the music you say you listen to, I thought you were already
wearing those earphones. :)

MartyB

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Dec 14, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/14/97
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ernie <er...@inch.com> wrote in article <3493e...@news.inch.com>...

Ernie,
Glad to see you posting here at a.r.aa - welcome, and welcome back!
Whatever has happened, has happened. One of the things that AA has
given me was an ability to "abandon all hope for a better past." I was
finally able to start seeing things as they were instead of what I had
wanted them to be. I started to see my excuses and rationalizations.
The first one was how I used to think that picking up a drink would help
relieve whatever pain I was facing. Sometimes, short-term, it would
SEEM to help - but the truth was that in the long run it only made the
situation worse for me. I started to take a longer term view on my
life and became willing to take the short-term steps that would help
me along the way.
I planned my day around a meeting. That is, I decided which meeting
(or meetings) I was going to attend that day, and only then did I start
thinking of whatever else I was going to do. I showed up early at those
meetings - at least a half-hour before it was scheduled to start and
often times an hour before. I helped with setup. I sat up front during
the meeting so I would not be as easily distracted. I tried to listen and
identify. I stayed late after the meeting. I helped with cleanup. I got
jobs in my groups. I joined a group. I went on commitments.
Some meetings would start off by going around the room and people
would introduce themselves. I tried to learn a new person's name each
night. I made it a game that I would try to remember each person's
name before their introduction. Though there were lots of errors at
first, I was grateful for each name I DID get right.
I got phone numbers. And more phone numbers. And although I
wish I could say otherwise, my butt had to be in pretty bad shape
before I could get up the courage to pick up the phone. It's still
difficult at times, today, most times I can just pick up the phone and
chat with someone without giving it a second thought.
Rather than focus what was not working, I tried to have a positive
attitude and be grateful for my little successes - it led me to want
to try other things. This was a welcome replacement to my old
attitude of not even considering trying something because I was
afraid I would not do it perfectly right the very first time, and someone
would make fun of me.
What I have found in AA is much openness, love, and tolerance.
Not entirely like that, of course, since we are all human, but I found
enough as I went that I was able to stick with it and keep growing.
My life is good today. I have an excellent job where I can make a
difference and I enjoy what I do. I have, without exaggeration, hundreds
of friends. A far cry from the empty, hopeless, loneliness I felt when
I was drinking. I have a faith in a higher power who is always there
when I look for help or guidance. I am alive.
Thank you for providing me a chance to remember how it was
when I first got started. I see so clearly now how important those
hesitant little steps in the beginning have brought me results beyond
my imagining. I hope you keep coming and that you let us know how
things are going. I care.

Sean

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Dec 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/15/97
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But I don't try to listen to it and concentrate on anything else at the same
time...

Actually, I have a whole "mellow" collection (mostly Goth shit...) that I
relax to.

Sean

David M wrote:

--

Jim McMahon

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Dec 15, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/15/97
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fbrumley@!No_Spam!.onramp.net (Fred Brumley) wrote:

>I remember that storyline from a made-for-TV movie...an movie adaption of
>Vonnegut's work. The name of the movie is "Harrison Bergeron" (a.k.a. " Kurt
>Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron", made in Canada, in 1995). I found it in the
>Sci-Fi section of a video store...then, about a week later, it was on TV.

>Anyway, here's the URL for an essay that gives some more background info.:
>http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/4953/bergeron.html

>Fred

Thanks, Fred!

As soon as you said "Harrison Bergeron", I remembered the title.
Unless it was published more than once under different titles, the
original poster was incorrect in calling it "The Handicapper General".
And I enjoyed the short essay you pointed at with the link. Thanks
again!

Fred Brumley

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Dec 17, 1997, 3:00:00 AM12/17/97
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On Mon, 15 Dec 1997 23:58:48 GMT in ARAA history, article
<674ge2$e46$1...@excalibur.flash.net> from mcma...@flash.net (Jim McMahon)
contained:

<...brevity snip...>

>And I enjoyed the short essay you pointed at with the link. Thanks
>again!
>
>Being ordinary and nothing special is a full-time job.
>mcma...@flash.net (Jim McMahon in real life)

You're welcome, Jim. I thought the essay was pretty interesting, too. I haven't
read any of Vonnegut's writings in a number of years...about the mid-60's as I
recall. Perhaps I'll do that when I finish the first volume of collected
writings by Harlan Ellison, _Edgeworks: Vol. 1_.

In his introduction, "Good Morning, Folks; I am not Kathie Lee Gifford,"
Ellison writes: "... Meeting Saddam Hussein or Newt Gingrich or Josef Stalin
for the first time, one might be completely swayed by their classical friendly
faces. The kinds of faces that we associate with Santa and Moses and Albert
Schweitzer. They *look* as if they'd be the nicest people. (In the same
stereotyped response we give to the sight of a large, meanspirited Kodiak bear
that could rip out your liver with one swipe of the talons, but who has that
sweet, kinda sappy Pooh-bear face.) ..."[1]

He seems like such an mad-man! I can relate! LOL! I ended up buying volume one
of Ellison's newly collected writings but I started off a few weeks ago
perusing used-book stores... trying to find a copy of Ellison's short story
(novella/novelette?), "I have no mouth and I must scream." No joy. Haven't
found a copy...yet. I need to check the BIP reference (and/or related volumes)
and find out the publishing facts. I'll find it eventually. Thanks for your
reply, Jim. BTW, how's that throwing arm? :-) Take care!

[1] Copyright © 1996 by The Kilimanjaro Corporation

_[_]_ Fred
(")
`--( : )--'
( : )
jgs ""`-...-'""

"To drink or not to drink. What was the question?"
Billy Bob Shakespeare
(Stolen from a t-shirt I saw at the mall.)

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