Use of marijuana whilst remaining sober?
unique
use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
Within the program and the rooms, I suspect and sense a lot of
attitudinal frowning upon the use of this substance, even though it (1)
is *outside* the realm of AA considerations, and (2) its potential for
leading toward "addictive" abuse is generally agreed to be way less than
that of nicotine, and comparable to that of caffeine, if not actually
less.
How can clear thinking AAers, so ready and willing to smoke cigarettes
and drink coffee -- two substances that are generally agreed to be *more
potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain
for this relatively benign intoxicant?
Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of maintaining
my sobriety.
Thanks in advance,
Ken Sherwood
Dana S
Dana S.
---------------
"Impossible?! That is not good French.--Napoleon
---------------
unique <uni...@ptd.net> wrote in message
news:374E46A8...@ptd.net...
Sinders
> potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain
> for this relatively benign intoxicant?
> Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of maintaining
> my sobriety.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ken Sherwood
>
Hi Ken
It sounds to me like your looking for an excuse to use a mood altering
substance and you are trying to justify your behavior by pointing the
finger at people who are unfortunate enough to have an addiction to
cigarettes and coffee . I have yet to meet anyone that is on a real
programme of recovery who condones or excuses the abuse of any mood
altering substances . I suggest you look at the reason you feel the
need to use or justify the use of this very addictive and harmful drug
. I wish you well in your search for contentment and in your recovery.
luv Sinead (sinders)
--
Posted via Talkway - http://www.talkway.com
Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).
Kimba
wrote:
>Oh boy! This thread oughta' be good. Time to make some popcorn.
>
>Dana S.
>---------------
OK - dibs on the couch!!!
Kimba
There's a seeker born every minute.
Remove golightly to reply
Mollypup
>
>Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
>use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
>
>attitudinal frowning upon the use of this substance, even though it (1)
>is *outside* the realm of AA considerations, and (2) its potential for
>leading toward "addictive" abuse is generally agreed to be way less than
>that of nicotine, and comparable to that of caffeine, if not actually
>less.
>
>How can clear thinking AAers, so ready and willing to smoke cigarettes
>and drink coffee -- two substances that are generally agreed to be *more
>for this relatively benign intoxicant?
>
>Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of maintaining
>my sobriety.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Ken Sherwood
>
Ken, just my opinion, but it sounds to me like you are trying to justify smoking
pot while still maintaining that you are sober. Pot *is* addictive, and it is
illegal. It can impair your thinking. If you get caught driving while it is in
your system, you can get a DUI. The bottom-line is that it s a mind-altering
chemical. If it were me, I could not in good conscious smoke pot and then aver
that I am sober.
Whatever your reasons for asking, I wish you all the best. Good luck! :)
-Sandy
"No limits Jonathon?" He said, and he laughed. His race to learn had begun.
- from Jonathon Livingston Seagull
Remove NOSPAM to reply
Ed H.
>
> Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
> use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
>
> Within the program and the rooms, I suspect and sense a lot of
> attitudinal frowning upon the use of this substance, even though it (1)
> is *outside* the realm of AA considerations, and (2) its potential for
> leading toward "addictive" abuse is generally agreed to be way less than
> that of nicotine, and comparable to that of caffeine, if not actually
> less.
>
> How can clear thinking AAers, so ready and willing to smoke cigarettes
> and drink coffee -- two substances that are generally agreed to be *more
> potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain
> for this relatively benign intoxicant?
>
> Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of maintaining
> my sobriety.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Ken Sherwood
Did it, been there, damn near drank.
For me it's part of people, places, things.
Good Luck Ed H
ShrinkRapt
>OK - dibs on the couch!!!
>
>Kimba
Hey, move your Highness on over...<wiggling in>
Methinks he be a trollito...
Jules
"Computers are a great way to meet people you would find revolting in
person."---Daria
<drop 'trou' to reply>
Ted L.
>Kimba hogs:
>> OK - dibs on the couch!!!
>> Kimba
>Hey, move your Highness on over...
Hey, can I snuggle between the two of ya'? This
probably won't have the emotional appeal of a good
Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie, but it should do.
Ted L.
Benedictus, qui venit in nomine Domini.
**** Posted from RemarQ - http://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) ****
sinned
>Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
>use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
are you shitting me? sobriety? i think not.....
>How can clear thinking AAers, so ready and willing to smoke cigarettes
>and drink coffee -- two substances that are generally agreed to be *more
>potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain
>for this relatively benign intoxicant?
sounds like you`ve smoked too much dope and are trying to rationalize
your getting loaded. time for you to give up the lie and the dope.
start by getting a new sobriety date.......
sinned
Dick M
uni...@ptd.net wrote:
> Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of
maintaining
> my sobriety.
> Thanks in advance,
> Ken Sherwood
Are we talking your basic benign home grown, Cannabis sativa? Or are we
talking some sort of ass kickin motherfuckin, Cambodian mind bender?
Regards
Dick
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
aka Steve
of life*, *quality of life in service to others*, *rational thinking*
(as opposed to leading with the emotions) *Living and letting live*,
*timely dispostioning of resentment*,etc.
We even add adjectives as in: "GOOD Sobriety" as if there were *good*
not drinking and *bad* not drinking. We even make amazing statements
like: "He may not be drinking but he's not sober."
If the word *sobriety* is so malleable, who says it couldn't include
smoking marijuana? Or do we have the unique divine right to turn our
interpretations into definitions and no one else is allowed to do so?
+regardz,
aka Steve
=====================
reply without guile
==========================
Martha Brummett
>
>>Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
>>use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
By observation of others, I have come to believe that [in most cases]*
use of marijuana, although clearly an outside issue and not, IMO, even
addictive, is detrimental to achieving the psychic change promised as
a result of working the Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
* Marijuana is useful medically for at least three things that I know
about: (1) preventing/alleviating glaucoma, (2) enhancing appetite in
AIDS patients, and (3) alleviating chronic pain. So, if someone with
one of these conditions is _prescribed_ (perhaps by a naturopath,
etc.) marijuana and takes it precisely as directed, I would not
consider that necessarily detrimental to a sober alcoholic's spiritual
growth.
Use of it, however detrimental, would not be reason for assuming a
slip when there is none.
Martha B.
Denver CO
10/3/83
Skakle
the people some of the time... like most programs. I think you might want to
ask yourself if your "self medicating" for depression. Then we could get into
a whole nuther discussion about the use of anti depressants. Yeah, yeah I know
Drs. prescribe them... and as long as there being taken according to script.
ya da ya da ya da. Seems most of my AA friends are on them. And frankly -
seems to work for some of them.
For others they seem even more depressed to me. But I am on the outside
looking in. They are still my friends, they are still sober.
I myself smoked a j at 8 months sober and didn't change my sobriety date. Found
out though, as someone else stated, that it was too close to old playgrounds,
etc.
Had a sponsee that smoked the whole first year without changing her sobriety
date. But she doesn't have that sobriety date anymore either.
Every thing is a suggestion. It is your life. You have to decide if it is
truly enhancing your life... or just comforting you enough to keep you from
real spiritual growth.
Sandra A.
KCB (arm shakey thang)
((I love that)))
unique
> > potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain
> > for this relatively benign intoxicant?
> > Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of maintaining
> > my sobriety.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Ken Sherwood
> >
>
> Hi Ken
>
> It sounds to me like your looking for an excuse to use a mood altering
> substance
(1) Don't need an excuse, just remember to check my alignment with God's
will.
(2) Everything we do is mood altering, that's why we do it, 'cuz it feels
better to do it than not to do it.
> and you are trying to justify your behavior
To whom?
> by pointing the
> finger at people who are unfortunate enough to have an addiction to
> cigarettes and coffee .
If that finger were pointing (it wasn't), it would be pointing at me as
well.
> I have yet to meet anyone that is on a real
> programme of recovery
Please define "*real* programme of recovery".
> who condones or excuses the abuse of any mood
> altering substances .
The "I have yet to meet anyone" argument doesn't cut it with me, no offense
intended. How many people have *you* asked? Were the people you met who are
on a "real program of recovery" (whatever that may mean to you (I'm
curious)) proscribing their personal list of "mood altering drugs that are
okay for *me* to use" (in AA, typically nicotine, caffeine, and sugar) for
*another person*, whose mileage may vary?
> I suggest you look at the reason you feel the need to use or justify the
> use of this very addictive and harmful drug.
:-) "Addictive"? "Harmful"? If you would like to continue our discussion, I
need to know the basis for your choice of adjectives. Cite references
please!
> I wish you well in your search for contentment and in your recovery.
Thank you, but I'm not searching, I've got it this time around (took me two
relapses). I'm a month sober and me and God are jammin'!
Hope This Helps,
Ken Sherwood
RRiley9945
harmless substance and as along as people didn't drink every thing was okay.
P.S. That group lasted only a few months--everyone in it got drunk.
Norm D
Not about to argue what "sobriety" means to you or to me. Would only
ask if the effect produced by smoking pot is what you consider to be
'sober'?
I know several people who have good reason to smoke pot and maintain
their sobriety but I don't think they are interested in the hallucinogenic
properties of marijuana which appears to be the focus of your post.
In AA, the doctor's opinion suggests that men and women drink
essentially to gain the effect produced by alcohol. If I were to smoke pot
to produce an effect similar to what I would like to experience from alcohol
I would consider it a "slip".
On the other hand if I were told to smoke pot for the anti-nausea effect
it produces in relation to my reaction to chemo therapy, I would have a
different opinion about smoking it in relation to my continued sobriety.
Hope this helps.
YMMV,
Norm
Skyjumper
Share.......
--
Mark H. aka
Skyjumper
------------------------
It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll
I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. - W E Henley
ShrinkRapt wrote in message
<19990528102027...@ngol08.aol.com>...
>Kimba hogs:
>
>>OK - dibs on the couch!!!
>>
>>Kimba
>
homerr
homerr...
PS. May I have another portion of Turnip Surprise?? I'm through with da
plantin'.
Kimba wrote in message <374f42d7...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
>On Fri, 28 May 1999 06:51:07 -0800, Ted L. <anon...@web.remarq.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Julie wrote:
>>
>>>Kimba hogs:
>>
>>>> OK - dibs on the couch!!!
>>>> Kimba
>>
>>>Hey, move your Highness on over...
>>
>>Hey, can I snuggle between the two of ya'? This
>>probably won't have the emotional appeal of a good
>>Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie, but it should do.
>>
>Well, all right, but if you persist in making those weird burpy
>noises, you'll have to sit on the floor.
Kimba
wrote:
>Kimba hogs:
>
>>OK - dibs on the couch!!!
>>
>>Kimba
>
>Hey, move your Highness on over...<wiggling in>
>
>Methinks he be a trollito...
>
The Eyetalian branch of the Trollean line is prone to be troublesome.
Pass the chips, will ya?
HRH
Kimba
wrote:
>Julie wrote:
>
>>Kimba hogs:
>
>>> OK - dibs on the couch!!!
>>> Kimba
>
>>Hey, move your Highness on over...
>
>Hey, can I snuggle between the two of ya'? This
>probably won't have the emotional appeal of a good
>Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie, but it should do.
>
Well, all right, but if you persist in making those weird burpy
noises, you'll have to sit on the floor.
Kimba
There's a seeker born every minute.
Remove golightly to reply
Skyjumper
pot. The words "sober" and "intoxicant" mix as well as tequila, gin and
grapefruit juice (now why did I say that, my stomach just did a flip-flop).
Now, in my exaulted opinion, which is just for me, and only for me mind you,
the purpose of being sober is to live life without the use of
intoxicants...you know that old "life on life's terms". This is because, and
here's the kicker, they don't work anymore. They don't do what they are
supposed to do. They don't make you feel better, more relaxed, more
clear-headed, or anything like that. I believe that in AA the phrase is "a
drink or a substitute". So you are using a substitute. For me, none of this
stuff does anything but get me in trouble, and I know that if I were smoking
pot, it would just put me in a position that would greatly enhance the
probablilty that I may just think a drink is a good idea. So I don't want to
even tempt fate. Besides, I made a promise to God a long time ago about my
drug use....and I keep my promises because He kept His.
It is looked down on simple because so many people go out. We call it
"Marajuana Maintenance" around here too. Just some solid experience talking.
But I suggest you try it out. But if you can't seem to get more than a
couple of months, you just may want to listen for a while.....
HEY Kimba! Stop hogging the pita chips! Anyone for more Iced Tea????
--
Mark H. aka
Skyjumper
------------------------
It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll
I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. - W E Henley
unique wrote in message <374E46A8...@ptd.net>...
>Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
>use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
>
<snip snip>
<GASP>
unique
Wizard wrote:
> unique wrote:
> >
> > Me = sober,
>
> I don't think so ...troll
Wrong ... Fool.
So your implication is that someone sober wouldn't smoke pot? Or even
ask about it?
Just curious,
Ken Sherwood
crider
quenches my thirst like a nice cool case of beer. So I've had to avoid both
for the last 9 years. Given the choice I would probably get stoned first so
obviously I'm a cross addicted alcoholic. I think you should take inventory
of yourself and follow your heart. By the way I've never missed work or
almost lost my family due to my cigarette addiction and I don't hide
Starbucks where my wife can't find it. Although I probably should stop both.
Andy
unique <uni...@ptd.net> wrote in message news:374E46A8...@ptd.net...
> Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
> use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
>
> Within the program and the rooms, I suspect and sense a lot of
> attitudinal frowning upon the use of this substance, even though it (1)
> is *outside* the realm of AA considerations, and (2) its potential for
> leading toward "addictive" abuse is generally agreed to be way less than
> that of nicotine, and comparable to that of caffeine, if not actually
> less.
>
> How can clear thinking AAers, so ready and willing to smoke cigarettes
> and drink coffee -- two substances that are generally agreed to be *more
> potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain
Derek M.
Kimba <kimbagol...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:374f42d7...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> On Fri, 28 May 1999 06:51:07 -0800, Ted L. <anon...@web.remarq.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Julie wrote:
> >
> >>Kimba hogs:
> >
> >>> OK - dibs on the couch!!!
> >>> Kimba
> >
> >>Hey, move your Highness on over...
> >
> >Hey, can I snuggle between the two of ya'? This
> >probably won't have the emotional appeal of a good
> >Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie, but it should do.
> >
> Well, all right, but if you persist in making those weird burpy
> noises, you'll have to sit on the floor.
>
> Kimba
uh Kimba, those noises weren't coming from his mouth....
Derek
unique
> On Fri, 28 May 1999 07:29:31 GMT, unique <uni...@ptd.net> wrote:
>
> >Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
> >use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
>
> are you shitting me? sobriety? i think not.....
Please explain. Rationally.
> >How can clear thinking AAers, so ready and willing to smoke cigarettes
> >and drink coffee -- two substances that are generally agreed to be *more
> >potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain
> >for this relatively benign intoxicant?
>
> sounds like you`ve smoked too much dope
Or you not enough! :-)
> and are trying to rationalize your getting loaded.
To whom would I be rationalizing, were I rationalizing? Which I'm not. Just
curious to hear various AAers' opinions and to look to see what their
opinions have to do with AA principles, or whether they're primarily based
on emotional reactionism. So far aka Steve is the only one I've seen willing
to put his thinking cap on and proffer entertaining dialogue.
> time for you to give up the lie
What lie? You're not helping much.
> and the dope.
First of all, I never said I smoke dope. Secondly, help me understand, were
I smoking dope, why it would be time to give it up. Thank you.
> start by getting a new sobriety date.......
Guess I need to know what sobriety date means.
Does your definition correspond with AA philosophy? I don't think so.
Show me the AA info on marijuana use. Thanks.
Ken Sherwood
Derek M.
RRiley9945 <rrile...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990528183902...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
I read a story in the paper a few months back where a kid was being
prosecuted for beating his mother because she would not share her pot with
the boy.
Derek
unique
> >On Fri, 28 May 1999 07:29:31 GMT, unique <uni...@ptd.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
> >>use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
>
> By observation of others, I have come to believe that [in most cases]*
> use of marijuana, although clearly an outside issue and not, IMO, even
> addictive, is detrimental to achieving the psychic change promised as
> a result of working the Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
What are the outward signs of the "psychic change"? Are you simply referring
to your own subjective impressions? And how is that change referred to in
the BB? I couldn't find "psychic".
> * Marijuana is useful medically for at least three things that I know
> about: (1) preventing/alleviating glaucoma, (2) enhancing appetite in
> AIDS patients, and (3) alleviating chronic pain.
Ya forgot depression.
> So, if someone with
> one of these conditions is _prescribed_ (perhaps by a naturopath,
> etc.) marijuana and takes it precisely as directed, I would not
> consider that necessarily detrimental to a sober alcoholic's spiritual
> growth.
Well your thinking seems flawed to me. Let's say, for the sake of argument,
that marijuana use somehow "clogs the pipeline" to God. How in Heaven's name
would a doctor's prescription preclude the clogging? I don't get it. Maybe I
misunderstood your meaning, or maybe you misstated it.
> Use of it, however detrimental, would not be reason for assuming a
> slip when there is none.
Pretty level-headed, Martha, thanks!
Ken Sherwood
unique
> In article <374E46A8...@ptd.net>, unique says...
> >
> >Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
> >use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
> >
> >Within the program and the rooms, I suspect and sense a lot of
> >attitudinal frowning upon the use of this substance, even though it (1)
> >is *outside* the realm of AA considerations, and (2) its potential for
> >leading toward "addictive" abuse is generally agreed to be way less than
> >that of nicotine, and comparable to that of caffeine, if not actually
> >less.
> >
> >How can clear thinking AAers, so ready and willing to smoke cigarettes
> >and drink coffee -- two substances that are generally agreed to be *more
> >potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain
> >for this relatively benign intoxicant?
> >
> >Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of maintaining
> >my sobriety.
> >
> >Thanks in advance,
> >
> >Ken Sherwood
> >
>
> Ken, just my opinion, but it sounds to me like you are trying to justify smoking
> pot while still maintaining that you are sober.
How does *your* gang of AA associates define sobriety?
> Pot *is* addictive,
Balderdash. As addictive as coffee, *maybe*. Check out
http://www.marijuanamagazine.com/toc/addictiv.htm .
> and it is illegal.
In most states, in some countries. But what does that really prove, if anything?
Adultery's still illegal in many states, I reckon. Alcohol was illegal for a while
in this country. Then they changed their minds (again). I look to a higher
authority.
> It can impair your thinking.
Sounds like you scored some bad pot, or no one ever taught you how to use it
properly. Entertained with respect, it can *improve* your thinking. I have no cites
at my fingertips for you ... just subjective experience (of a friend of mine, of
course).
> If you get caught driving while it is in your system, you can get a DUI.
That's odd. It stays in your system long after its effects wear off. Are you sure
about this? Which states?
> The bottom-line is that it s a mind-altering chemical.
Every food we eat is mind-altering.
> If it were me, I could not in good conscious smoke pot and then aver
> that I am sober.
So you are telling me that you have your personal list of "okay drugs" and
"not-okay drugs", and that marijuana's on the latter one. Fine by me, but it really
doesn't help me gather info. For all I know, the reason that it's on your "not
okay" list may be that you are more of an addictive type personality, and tend to
react in a *psychologically* addicted manner in many areas of your life, and that
pot would be one of those areas, were you to use it. See how knowing that really
doesn't help me get clearer about distinctions here? That's what I'm shooting for.
Distinctions.
> Whatever your reasons for asking, I wish you all the best. Good luck! :)
Thanks, I pretty much got the best going for me already! My last relapse gave me a
quantum leap in humility, and me and God have been havin' a rocking good time ever
since!
BTW, for those who are curious and as yet unaware, God has a tremendous sense of
humor. Or at least the rep that handles my district does ...
HTH,
Ken Sherwood
Derek M.
unique <uni...@ptd.net> wrote in message news:374F7074...@ptd.net...
are you forgetting that "you" asked for other peoples' opinions?
Derek
Derek M.
crider <andr...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7inr7n$p18$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
> All I know is I love smoking pot and it makes me really thirsty and
nothing
> quenches my thirst like a nice cool case of beer. So I've had to avoid
both
> for the last 9 years. Given the choice I would probably get stoned first
so
> obviously I'm a cross addicted alcoholic. I think you should take
inventory
> of yourself and follow your heart. By the way I've never missed work or
> almost lost my family due to my cigarette addiction and I don't hide
> Starbucks where my wife can't find it. Although I probably should stop
both.
>
> Andy
the "only" thing good at Starbucks is their chai tea with honey and soymilk.
Derek
>
> unique <uni...@ptd.net> wrote in message news:374E46A8...@ptd.net...
unique
> Around here we call this the Marijuana Maintenance Program.
Heh!
> Works for some of the people some of the time... like most programs.
*There's* a whole 'nother subject, huh?!
> I think you might want to
> ask yourself if your "self medicating" for depression.
Or maybe mundaneness. But I never said I'm using it in the first place.
> Then we could get into
> a whole nuther discussion about the use of anti depressants. Yeah, yeah I know
> Drs.
Who are collectively, of course, God's Truest Spokesmen and Dispensers of Wisdom,
down to a man ... ;-)
> prescribe them... and as long as there being taken according to script.
> ya da ya da ya da.
Yeah, like the guy who had to visit 5 doctors before finding one who agreed with
his self diagnosis of needing antidepressants. Pathetic.
> Seems most of my AA friends are on them. And frankly -
> seems to work for some of them.
Beats fighting depression with a depressant (alcohol)! God knows, I tried ...
> For others they seem even more depressed to me.
The antidepressants only mask the symptoms ... they are unnatural substances,
foreign to the body, and always come wrapped up in a package that also contains
many untoward side effects. Including death.
> But I am on the outside
> looking in. They are still my friends, they are still sober.
>
> I myself smoked a j at 8 months sober and didn't change my sobriety date. Found
> out though, as someone else stated, that it was too close to old playgrounds,
> etc.
I guess there must be different kinds of alcoholics -- playgrounds were never a
problem for me. (Hell, I did most of my drinking at home, alone.)
> Had a sponsee that smoked the whole first year without changing her sobriety
> date. But she doesn't have that sobriety date anymore either.
>
> Every thing is a suggestion. It is your life. You have to decide if it is
> truly enhancing your life... or just comforting you enough to keep you from
> real spiritual growth.
Wise words, your last paragraph. Thanks!
Ken Sherwood
> Sandra A.
> KCB (arm shakey thang)
> ((I love that)))
? Explain?
unique
> In article <374E46A8...@ptd.net>,
> uni...@ptd.net wrote:
>
> > Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of
> maintaining
> > my sobriety.
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Ken Sherwood
>
> Are we talking your basic benign home grown, Cannabis sativa? Or are we
> talking some sort of ass kickin motherfuckin, Cambodian mind bender?
Not sure, Dick.
Were ya drinkin' Michelobs, or grain alcohol? ;-)
Ken Sherwood
unique
ShrinkRapt wrote:
> Kimba hogs:
>
> >OK - dibs on the couch!!!
> >
> >Kimba
>
> Hey, move your Highness on over...<wiggling in>
>
> Methinks he be a trollito...
Nah, you know better, or ya wouldn't be scootchin' yerself a seat on
that couch. Gettin' kinda crowded up there, huh?!
Ken Sherwood
crider
Derek M. <der...@mind.com> wrote in message
news:7intb6$53n$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net...
JackieJone
kimbagol...@worldnet.att.net (Kimba) writes:
>>
>The Eyetalian branch of the Trollean line is prone to be troublesome.
>
Eyetalian? Eyetalian! That's ME! And Eyerish, both of 'em. Can I be an
Eyetalian-Eyerish troll, please? Huh? Huh???
Jackie
Take SECONDS to reply
Back off! You're standing in my aura.
Martha Brummett
>Show me the AA info on marijuana use. Thanks.
The Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside
issues.
Many individual members, of course, have very strong ones.
Tom G.
> Kimba <kimbagol...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:374f42d7...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> > On Fri, 28 May 1999 06:51:07 -0800, Ted L. <anon...@web.remarq.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Julie wrote:
> > >
> > >>Kimba hogs:
> > >
> > >>> OK - dibs on the couch!!!
> > >>> Kimba
> > >
> > >>Hey, move your Highness on over...
> > >
> > >Hey, can I snuggle between the two of ya'? This
> > >probably won't have the emotional appeal of a good
> > >Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie, but it should do.
> > >
> > Well, all right, but if you persist in making those weird burpy
> > noises, you'll have to sit on the floor.
> >
> > Kimba
>
> uh Kimba, those noises weren't coming from his mouth....
>
> Derek
Boy, you'd certainly notice *that*, wouldn't you....??
Tom
\\\|///
\\ - - //
( @ @ )
---oOOo-(_)-oOOo-------------------------------
Tom Gosnell the...@erols.com
--------------Oooo-----------------------------
oooO ( )
( ) ) / To visit my Website...
\ ( (_/ Click there --> http://www.erols.com/thegoz/
\_)
doris
>Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
>use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Ken Sherwood
Ken: I can only tell you that every time I get loaded I get drunk,
and that every time I get drunk I get loaded. So has it been my
experience. You wanted a story, this is mine. Hope it helps.
Doris
Lech K. Lesiak
> It sounds to me like your looking for an excuse to use a mood altering
> substance and you are trying to justify your behavior by pointing the
> finger at people who are unfortunate enough to have an addiction to
> cigarettes and coffee . I have yet to meet anyone that is on a real
Personally I don't need an excuse to use a mood altering substance. Maddy
Prior, Vivaldi, running, Lawrence Block novels all alter my mood, and I
make no excuses for those addictions.
Cheers,
Lech
Lech K. Lesiak
> smoking marijuana? Or do we have the unique divine right to turn our
> interpretations into definitions and no one else is allowed to do so?
If one can judge by the views expressed at AA meetings, especially by Old
Farts with bad lungs, the answer is a resounding 'YES!'.
Cheers,
Lech
Lech K. Lesiak
> chemical. If it were me, I could not in good conscious smoke pot and then aver
> that I am sober.
I did, and still do aver so. If a relatively mild drug like MJ destroys
one's sobriety, what does it say about cigarettes - the use of which kills
hundreds of thousands in the US each year?
Cheers,
Lech
Grace
<lkle...@calcna.ab.ca> wrote:
> Personally I don't need an excuse to use a mood altering substance. Maddy
> Prior, Vivaldi, running, Lawrence Block novels all alter my mood, and I
> make no excuses for those addictions.
>
> Cheers,
> Lech
Who is Maddy Prior, Lech? I can vouch for the others and would include a
few other "mood altering substances" such as a hot bath, certain foods,
and James Lee Burke novels.
"The only way out is through."
-Robert Frost
Lech K. Lesiak
> By observation of others, I have come to believe that [in most cases]*
> use of marijuana, although clearly an outside issue and not, IMO, even
> addictive, is detrimental to achieving the psychic change promised as
> a result of working the Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Ah! Maybe that explains why I think The Steps are crypto-christian
horseshit. It was the MJ that twisted my thinking. I haven't had a toke
in ten or eleven years. When can I expect to recover from my evil
thinking and Work The Steps?
Cheers,
Lech
Lech K. Lesiak
> Are we talking your basic benign home grown, Cannabis sativa? Or are we
> talking some sort of ass kickin motherfuckin, Cambodian mind bender?
Don't bother with that cheap Asian shit. The really fine bud comes from
British Columbia these days, according to my sources.
Cheers,
Lech
Lech K. Lesiak
> We had a meeting in this area that condoned marijuana smoking--claimed it was a
> harmless substance and as along as people didn't drink every thing was okay.
>
> P.S. That group lasted only a few months--everyone in it got drunk.
Now I'm really scared. We have a meeting in this area where they used to
have a hooker raffle once a month - it's been going for over forty years.
Can we then conclude that your group will have longevity if you auction
whores once in a while?
Cheers,
Lech
Lech K. Lesiak
> All I know is I love smoking pot and it makes me really thirsty and nothing
> quenches my thirst like a nice cool case of beer. So I've had to avoid both
In my experience, booze and MJ were a bad mix. Maybe a glass of wine
sipped slowly. A case of beer? That would have been a waste of good MJ
in my case.
Cheers,
Lech
Derek M.
Tom G. <the...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:374FE952...@erols.com...
> "Derek M." wrote:
>
> > Kimba <kimbagol...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:374f42d7...@netnews.worldnet.att.net...
> > > On Fri, 28 May 1999 06:51:07 -0800, Ted L. <anon...@web.remarq.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Julie wrote:
> > > >
> > > >>Kimba hogs:
> > > >
> > > >>> OK - dibs on the couch!!!
> > > >>> Kimba
> > > >
> > > >>Hey, move your Highness on over...
> > > >
> > > >Hey, can I snuggle between the two of ya'? This
> > > >probably won't have the emotional appeal of a good
> > > >Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie, but it should do.
> > > >
> > > Well, all right, but if you persist in making those weird burpy
> > > noises, you'll have to sit on the floor.
> > >
> > > Kimba
> >
> > uh Kimba, those noises weren't coming from his mouth....
> >
> > Derek
>
> Boy, you'd certainly notice *that*, wouldn't you....??
>
> Tom
yep, been listening to your opinions long enough to recognize that sound all
the way over here.
Derek
Lech K. Lesiak
>
> Who is Maddy Prior, Lech? I can vouch for the others and would include a
> few other "mood altering substances" such as a hot bath, certain foods,
> and James Lee Burke novels.
Maddy Prior is an English lady with a voice to die for. I became
acquainted with her when I heard her rendition of an 18th century hymn
entitled 'Who would true valour see' on CBC Radio. She is right up there
with Cat Stevens, Jussi Bjeurling, and Jon Vickers on my list of terrific
voices.
Cheers,
Lech
Tom G.
>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Julie wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>Kimba hogs:
> > > > >
> > > > >>> OK - dibs on the couch!!!
> > > > >>> Kimba
> > > > >
> > > > >>Hey, move your Highness on over...
> > > > >
> > > > >Hey, can I snuggle between the two of ya'? This
> > > > >probably won't have the emotional appeal of a good
> > > > >Tom Hanks/Meg Ryan movie, but it should do.
> > > > >
> > > > Well, all right, but if you persist in making those weird burpy
> > > > noises, you'll have to sit on the floor.
> > > >
> > > > Kimba
> > >
> > > uh Kimba, those noises weren't coming from his mouth....
> > >
> > > Derek
> >
> > Boy, you'd certainly notice *that*, wouldn't you....??
> >
> > Tom
>
> yep, been listening to your opinions long enough to recognize that sound all
> the way over here.
>
> Derek
What a lame response.... Truth is, Derek, you're obsessed with
other guys asses.... Homer sounds like a good match for you....:O)
You're a snarf, dude.... You fart in the bathtub so you can bite
the bubble....:O)
Kimba
wrote:
>Hey, I just made some tasty spinach dip...MOVE OVER you two!!!! I'll
>Share.......
>
>--
Here - try some of this fruit dip - it's great!!
Kimba
There's a seeker born every minute.
Remove golightly to reply
Derek M.
Does Henry know you are out of cage again?
Derek
wondering where Tom get's all of these detailed descriptions, personal
experience maybe?
pwsm...@mindspring.com
too? Like we got a patent on thinking our opinions are the law?
Phil S
nicotine free since 4-19-64
Lech K. Lesiak <lkle...@calcna.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:7ip2v2$b...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca...
Kimba
wrote:
>Methinks they only "sound" like burps, Prinessa.
>homerr...
>PS. May I have another portion of Turnip Surprise?? I'm through with da
>plantin'.
>
You certainly may. Um - what IS that smell???
GAK!
La Princessa
pwsm...@mindspring.com
Ahem, just curious.
Phil S
Lech K. Lesiak <lkle...@calcna.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:7ip423$j...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca...
Kimba
wrote:
>In article <374f429f...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
>kimbagol...@worldnet.att.net (Kimba) writes:
>
>>>
>>The Eyetalian branch of the Trollean line is prone to be troublesome.
>>
>
>Eyetalian? Eyetalian! That's ME! And Eyerish, both of 'em. Can I be an
>Eyetalian-Eyerish troll, please? Huh? Huh???
>
You can't become one, Jackie - you have to be born to it. But you can
certainly find a happy life in Trollsylvania :)
Kimba
Lech K. Lesiak
> Now what group is that?
>
> Ahem, just curious.
Turf, meets Thursday nights. They don't do the raffles since the time the
guy they sent out to pick up the merchandise latched onto an undercover
cop.
Cheers,
Lech
Tom G.
>
> > What a lame response.... Truth is, Derek, you're obsessed with
> > other guys asses.... Homer sounds like a good match for you....:O)
> > You're a snarf, dude.... You fart in the bathtub so you can bite
> > the bubble....:O)
> >
> > Tom
>
> Does Henry know you are out of cage again?
>
> Derek
> wondering where Tom get's all of these detailed descriptions, personal
> experience maybe?
Now here I go, sharing experience with the troubled Skywalker
and you make sport of my sharing.... Tsk, tsk, tsk.... Where do I get
the descriptions?? I have a life.... I know real people and don't hide
in an obscure little newsgroup like you.....:O)
Derek M.
> "Derek M." wrote:
>
> >
> > > What a lame response.... Truth is, Derek, you're obsessed with
> > > other guys asses.... Homer sounds like a good match for you....:O)
> > > You're a snarf, dude.... You fart in the bathtub so you can bite
> > > the bubble....:O)
> > >
> > > Tom
> >
> > Does Henry know you are out of cage again?
> >
> > Derek
> > wondering where Tom get's all of these detailed descriptions, personal
> > experience maybe?
>
> Now here I go, sharing experience with the troubled Skywalker
> and you make sport of my sharing.... Tsk, tsk, tsk.... Where do I get
> the descriptions?? I have a life.... I know real people and don't hide
> in an obscure little newsgroup like you.....:O)
>
> Tom
and you compare that to making fun of me when I was sexually abused as
child? I was taught that was called being a hypocrite. playing victim like
fransway. the difference between me and you on that type of behavior is
that I say you can do as please because I know you will anyway, and I know I
will stay chemical free inspite of that. I accept responsibility for my life
and my actions today.
Your response also says you come up with these detailed descriptions from
personal experience. So you are admitting to biting fart bubbles in the
bath. Your own?
Derek
who's starting to gain a new respect for Tom. Anyone that weird and sober
has got to be trying really hard.
Tom G.
> and you compare that to making fun of me when I was sexually abused as
> child? I was taught that was called being a hypocrite.
<remainder of your juvenile nonsense deleted>
I defy you you to produce *one* instance of where I ridiculed
you for being sexually abused as a child. Now you're making the
shit up..... I have poked fun at you for being a dipshit, but I've
never made fun of any sexual abuse....
Erwin
news:7ilvh6$27...@drn.newsguy.com...
> Ken, just my opinion, but it sounds to me like you are trying to justify
smoking
> pot while still maintaining that you are sober. Pot *is* addictive, and it
is
> illegal. It can impair your thinking. If you get caught driving while it
is in
> your system, you can get a DUI. The bottom-line is that it s a
mind-altering
> chemical. If it were me, I could not in good conscious smoke pot and then
aver
> that I am sober.
>
> Whatever your reasons for asking, I wish you all the best. Good luck! :)
>
> -Sandy
> "No limits Jonathon?" He said, and he laughed. His race to learn had
begun.
> - from Jonathon Livingston Seagull
>
> Remove NOSPAM to reply
>
I don't remember which side of the 'only alcoholics should be allowed in AA'
issue you came down on (if either).
But, for those that say only an alcoholic belongs in AA, it should also
follow that the use of *any* substance, other than alcohol, has no bearing
on a person's length of sobriety.
--
Erwin
Erwin
> Turf, meets Thursday nights. They don't do the raffles since the time the
> guy they sent out to pick up the merchandise latched onto an undercover
> cop.
>
> Cheers,
> Lech
>
Are we to conclude that the group is now in danger of going under?
--
Erwin
Derek M.
> "Derek M." wrote:
>
> > and you compare that to making fun of me when I was sexually abused as
> > child? I was taught that was called being a hypocrite.
>
> <remainder of your juvenile nonsense deleted>
>
>
> I defy you you to produce *one* instance of where I ridiculed
> you for being sexually abused as a child. Now you're making the
> shit up..... I have poked fun at you for being a dipshit, but I've
> never made fun of any sexual abuse....
>
> Tom
Maybe that was the way I perceived it when I told you why I reacted to the
NYPD pedo troll the way I did.
I might be wrong, I doubt it though.
Derek
Tom G.
Bullshit. You're making a gratuitous assertion. You probably
don't know what that means, even though you do it all the time,
so I'll tell you. You make an assertion, but you can't or refuse
to back up said assertion with facts. You're such an expert on
digging up dirt on others here, yet you can't produce the *proof*.?
There's a good reason for this. You're telling a goddam lie and
I think you know it.... Put up or shut up, loudmouth... You try
to belittle others and then piously claim that you don't.... not if
they're honestly sharing ESH.... Liar.... Roleplayer....
Tom
P.S. I remember the post you refer to and I made no response
whatsoever...
Mollypup
kimbagol...@worldnet.att.net says...
>
>On Fri, 28 May 1999 21:47:56 -0700, "homerr" <jazz...@spry2net.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Methinks they only "sound" like burps, Prinessa.
>>homerr...
>>PS. May I have another portion of Turnip Surprise?? I'm through with da
>>plantin'.
>>
>You certainly may. Um - what IS that smell???
>
>GAK!
>
>La Princessa
>
>
>Remove golightly to reply
It's his cologne. I think it's called Eau de Farte'
-Sandy
Remove NOSPAM to reply
Mollypup
Erwin, I am an alcoholic and an addict. I came down on the side of welcoming
addicts who are also alcoholics into all meetings, and welcoming addicts into
open meetings when living in an area that has no decent NA meetings around. I
can't talk about my ES&H without talking about alcohol AND drugs, but because
both are a part of my story. Like I said above, for me, personally, I could not
use pot and still claim sobriety in good conscious.
Mollypup
guilea...@mindspring.com says...
>
>I swear this is true. I personally know a fellow who cut his father's
>head off because he ate all the bacon without saving any for his son's
>breakfast. Watch out for bacon if you want to stay sober.
>
>aka Steve
Decapitation over bacon? I hope that guy is in jail!
Thijs
At first I thought you were sincere about your question. But having
followed the thread for a little, I have changed my opinion. You seem to be
bound on proving that pot is 'benign', 'medicinal', etc. I wonder who you
are trying to persuade. Araa-ers or yourself. Why would you post a question
like this in the first place? I can think of two reasons: a) you are
genuinely wondering whether you are on the right track, implying that there
is some doubt in your mind, or b) you are trying to sell the idea that pot
is an innocent pastime (...to us; a group of people who are trying to come
off whatever it was that we were on and was destroying us). I dare to make
a guess that it is b), given that you are very argumentative, opinionated,
stubborn and at times outright rude about what people are trying to say. I
don't think it is a) because of the above.
There was a load of press here recently about the benefits of having some
red wine every day. Scientists believe it is good practise to lower the
risk of coronary trouble. Probably is. Does it matter to me? The opinion
of these nerds or my own experience? Some people can have a joint every now
and then, get the giggles and get on with their lives. Very remedial for
them. I smoked for long periods all day every day. That's my nature; I
needed to draw some conclusions. Never mind what anybody has to say about
the subject. I think you are well qualified to make up your own mind on
whether it is okay to be out of your head during recovery, and you are
certainly not waiting for our/my experiences or opinions.
If you think pot is innocent, why pose the question in the first place? Who
cares what you, other users or scientists have to say about the matter? I
have smoked pot -on and off- for 28 years. I didn't give a damn about what
any tom, dick or harry had to say about it, didn't care whether it is
illegal (never been arrested for possession in all those years ). I did it,
and for a long time I liked it. What matters to me now is that it was time
for me to get off it. It was seriously screwing up my thought processes, my
concentration, my memory, my chest. In spite of that observation it took a
major depression and a crisis in work to stop. As with the booze, I take it
one day at a time with it, and most of the time I am happy not to be stoned
anymore.
BTW, who would stop you from going to meetings anyway? There is nothing
like being stoned out of your mind and arguing with people from the safety
of your armchair, isn't it. Been there, done that.
Good luck with your sobriety,
Maarten.
unique wrote in message <374E46A8...@ptd.net>...
>Me = sober, happy active AAer, seeking your stories/anecdotes regarding
>use of marijuana whilst maintaining one's sobriety.
>
>Within the program and the rooms, I suspect and sense a lot of
>attitudinal frowning upon the use of this substance, even though it (1)
>is *outside* the realm of AA considerations, and (2) its potential for
>leading toward "addictive" abuse is generally agreed to be way less than
>that of nicotine, and comparable to that of caffeine, if not actually
>less.
>
>How can clear thinking AAers, so ready and willing to smoke cigarettes
>and drink coffee -- two substances that are generally agreed to be *more
>potentially addictive* than MJ -- justify to themselves their disdain
>for this relatively benign intoxicant?
>
>Sincerely interested in help figuring this all out. Part of maintaining
>my sobriety.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Ken Sherwood
>
Thijs
aka Steve
head off because he ate all the bacon without saving any for his son's
breakfast. Watch out for bacon if you want to stay sober.
aka Steve
====================
reply without guile
=======================
On Sat, 29 May 1999 00:56:58 -0400, "Derek M." <der...@mind.com>
wrote:
>
>RRiley9945 <rrile...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:19990528183902...@ng-fk1.aol.com...
>> We had a meeting in this area that condoned marijuana smoking--claimed it
>was a
>> harmless substance and as along as people didn't drink every thing was
>okay.
>>
>> P.S. That group lasted only a few months--everyone in it got drunk.
>
>I read a story in the paper a few months back where a kid was being
>prosecuted for beating his mother because she would not share her pot with
>the boy.
>
>Derek
>
>
ol'62
Lech K. Lesiak wrote in message <7ip6il$b...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>...
>On Sat, 29 May 1999, Grace wrote:
>
>>
>
>Maddy Prior is an English lady with a voice to die for. snip
Rick Kemp
Peter KNight
Nigel Pegrum
Tim Hart
Robert Johnson
Maddy Prior
Better known as Steeleye Span... and Lech just continues to impress
one with his fine musical taste.
I have their All Around My Hat, Storm Force Ten, Tempted and Tried,
Time, and Tonights the Night (live) recordings and two or three times
a year I go on a run of a few weeks back to back of playing little
else, except maybe Rennaisance, Wolfstone and the likes.
Do you see any similarities in Steeleye Span and Rennaisance? Or
should I say Maddy and Annie (as neither organization seems to make
good without their leading women)?
By the way, Garnett Rogers is in Pittsburgh this weekend, but having
traveled in there to see Nanci Griffith last night... a return trip
this soon would be rather unlikely. Will get to hear him some day,
though.
------------
The early worm gets eaten.
Post or lose an 'n' to reply.
Protect privacy, boycott Intel:
http://www.bigbrotherinside.org
unique
> We had a meeting in this area that condoned marijuana smoking--claimed it was a
> harmless substance and as along as people didn't drink every thing was okay.
>
> P.S. That group lasted only a few months--everyone in it got drunk.
Urban Legend, right? :-)
Ken Sherwood
unique
> See, you did it to yourself.
Did what? :-)
> You said the word "intoxicant" when speaking of
> pot. The words "sober"
Means "not drunk".
> and "intoxicant"
Any "poison" (toxic) taken into the system.
> mix as well as tequila, gin and
> grapefruit juice (now why did I say that, my stomach just did a flip-flop).
>
> Now, in my exaulted opinion, which is just for me, and only for me mind you,
> the purpose of being sober is to live life without the use of
> intoxicants...you know that old "life on life's terms".
Could we replace "intoxicants" with "mood alterers"? I think it would make this
an even more interesting discussion.
So, life on life's terms. And life includes many mood alterers. We're all doing
it all the time, whether we're aware of it or not, just because it's a natural
instinct of any animal to avoid pain and to approach pleasure. We do what feels
good. This "feeling good" can of course include rational considerations, etc.
Something feels right, we do it. Doing it alters our mood in a pleasurable way.
I like roller coasters. Riding them induces neurochemical changes in me that I
find extremely pleasurable. Same with those fast-drop rides. Even a speedy
elevator, going down, will do nicely.
> This is because, and here's the kicker, they don't work anymore.
Well of course *if* they don't work anymore, why continue?
> They don't do what they are supposed to do.
"Supposed to do"?
> They don't make you feel better, more relaxed, more
> clear-headed, or anything like that.
Are we talking about marijuana?
> I believe that in AA the phrase is "a
> drink or a substitute". So you are using a substitute.
For the third time, I never said I'm using marijuana.
Now I need a list of substitutes. One highly respected man at a top rehab in
the US clearly includes caffeine, nicotine, and sugar. Are these on your list?
> For me, none of this
> stuff does anything but get me in trouble,
No self-discipline?
> and I know that if I were smoking
> pot, it would just put me in a position that would greatly enhance the
> probablilty that I may just think a drink is a good idea.
No "it" wouldn't put you in a position. Only *you* put you in a position.
"*Smoke pot* must lead to *drink alcohol*."? Not if you don't define it as such
to yourself. What need one thing have to do with another?
> So I don't want to even tempt fate.
I wouldn't ever ask anyone to, and I, too, use the "tempting fate" feeling as a
guideline in choosing behavior.
> Besides, I made a promise to God a long time ago about my
> drug use....and I keep my promises because He kept His.
>
> It is looked down on simple because so many people go out.
Weak character. I've met 'em too. They didn't smoke pot to get high, they
smoked pot to get fucked up. The ones who didn't "go out", I'd bet they smoked
pot to get high.
> We call it
> "Marajuana Maintenance" around here too. Just some solid experience talking.
> But I suggest you try it out. But if you can't seem to get more than a
> couple of months, you just may want to listen for a while.....
>
> HEY Kimba! Stop hogging the pita chips! Anyone for more Iced Tea????
Caffeine addict? :-)
Sincerely,
Ken Sherwood
unique
> All I know is I love smoking pot and it makes me really thirsty and nothing
> quenches my thirst like a nice cool case of beer. So I've had to avoid both
> for the last 9 years. Given the choice I would probably get stoned first so
> obviously I'm a cross addicted alcoholic.
But marijuana is not an addictive substance, so how can you say "cross
addicted"? Perhaps you mean "cross obsessed". Ya can't be addicted to MJ.
> I think you should take inventory
> of yourself and follow your heart. By the way I've never missed work or
> almost lost my family due to my cigarette addiction
Due to your apparent ability to smoke in moderation.
> and I don't hide
> Starbucks where my wife can't find it.
I would, it's expensive, isn't it?
> Although I probably should stop both.
Sigh. Me too.
Ken Sherwood
unique
> On Sat, 29 May 1999 04:49:12 GMT, unique <uni...@ptd.net> wrote:
>
> >Show me the AA info on marijuana use. Thanks.
>
> The Fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside
> issues.
>
> Many individual members, of course, have very strong ones.
That would be two Bingoes.
Ken Sherwood
unique
Lech K. Lesiak wrote:
> On Sat, 29 May 1999, crider wrote:
>
> > All I know is I love smoking pot and it makes me really thirsty and nothing
> > quenches my thirst like a nice cool case of beer. So I've had to avoid both
>
> In my experience, booze and MJ were a bad mix. Maybe a glass of wine
> sipped slowly. A case of beer? That would have been a waste of good MJ
> in my case.
My friend who smokes pot feels the same way. But since he's an alcoholic like
me, he foregoes the alcohol. Can't even actually muster up a desire for its
effects. He has a good, clear memory of his last withdrawal/detox experience.
Through Grace he received the humbling he needed and wanted and had prayed for,
painful though it was (the letting go stuff), and now he's One Happy Puppy. The
Promises are blossoming in his life, spontaneously.
HTH,
Ken Sherwood
unique
Bodhi wrote:
> <snip>
>
> ... a troll ...
Nope, too busy for that kinda stuff. Usedta do it elsewhere for fun, though.
> <snip>
>
> ... I went to a meeting in NYC that had a wall full of slogans. I used to sit in meetings and listen, and read the signs. One of the signs said: "You can't be high and sober at the same time".
Not part of AA material, I'm sure. Somebody's arbitrary opinion, that's all.
> It's very simple:
>
> 1- Marijuana is a mood altering drug that is highly addictive to certain individuals.
I fully agree, but only in the sense that certain individuals are prone to "fall in love with" a substance. There are no physiologically addicting components to MJ.
> Are you one of those individuals? I have no idea. I leave that for you to discover for yourself.
>
> 2 - You can't be high and sober at that same time.
See above.
> Hope this helps..
Thanks for the kind gesture.
Ken Sherwood
Derek M.
unique <uni...@ptd.net> wrote in message news:3750D7F8...@ptd.net...
> crider wrote:
>
> > All I know is I love smoking pot and it makes me really thirsty and
nothing
> > quenches my thirst like a nice cool case of beer. So I've had to avoid
both
so
> > obviously I'm a cross addicted alcoholic.
>
> But marijuana is not an addictive substance, so how can you say "cross
> addicted"? Perhaps you mean "cross obsessed". Ya can't be addicted to MJ.
>
and you have proof of this?
Derek
if smoking pot is natural why is that only human beings do it?
Erwin
> >head off because he ate all the bacon without saving any for his son's
> >breakfast. Watch out for bacon if you want to stay sober.
> >
> >aka Steve
>
>
> -Sandy
>
>
> Remove NOSPAM to reply
>
If so, I'm sure he's getting porked.
--
Erwin
Jeff Romenesko
unique <uni...@ptd.net> wrote in message news:374E46A8...@ptd.net...
Martha Brummett
wrote:
>Decapitation over bacon? I hope that guy is in jail!
People like that go to the hospital for the criminally insane, no
chance of parole...
Martha B.
Denver CO
10/3/83
Kimba
wrote:
Or going down....ooopsssssss!!!
Kimba
Grace
wrote:
> Rick Kemp
> Peter KNight
> Nigel Pegrum
> Tim Hart
> Robert Johnson
> Maddy Prior
>
> Better known as Steeleye Span... and Lech just continues to impress
> one with his fine musical taste.
OK - I heard them years ago but didn't know they were still around. I
liked them a lot. Didn't Sandy Denny sing with them too?
"The only way out is through."
-Robert Frost
ol'62
tweaked a bit each time, even Ashley Hutchings spent some time with
them. I do know that Knight, Hart, Johnson and Prior seem to be the
constants, and although Prior was not on their last release of just
last year (for the first time, Lech?), she was with them when they
appeared in Pittsburgh at the same time. Not sure I understand what
that was all about. Did not get tickets early enough as I just did not
think that many folks were still into them. Boy was I wrong and
disappointed.
Grace wrote in message ...
Lech K. Lesiak
> Do you see any similarities in Steeleye Span and Rennaisance? Or
> should I say Maddy and Annie (as neither organization seems to make
> good without their leading women)?
Let's not forget Custer Larue and Baltimore Consort as long as we are
doing this old time music schtik.
Cheers,
Lech
morris
>On Fri, 28 May 1999 02:46:29 -0600, "Dana S" <dse...@SPAMverinet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Oh boy! This thread oughta' be good. Time to make some popcorn.
>>
>>Dana S.
>>---------------
>OK - dibs on the couch!!!
>
>Kimba
>
>There's a seeker born every minute.
>
>Remove golightly to reply
Been watching this thread for a while. Not really much into being
inside so I`ve been sitting outside watching the stars and the
fireworks. What a show! Better than TV! Almost better than a
meeting with differences of opinion. Oh well, time to go back
outside. Happy Memorial Day!
Morris
Lech K. Lesiak
> IMHO your "friend" is full of shit.
> You might mention to your "friend" that AA is a program of honesty.
> And the promises come after the ninth step.
You might also mention to your friend that some of us think the steps are
a load of hooey, AA is a program of not drinking, and that some people get
the promises without the dogmatic AA codswallop.
MJ never harmed me - cigarettes and booze did. Can't speak for anyone
else.
Cheers,
Lech
ol'62
Don't even know who they are except that they are or were into like,
Bach or something along those lines?? Are they still around and are
they worth paying cash to hear?
hmmmmm
Maybe worth asking around at my favorite lurking spot rec.folk.music.
I sometimes don't delurk there for months, cause once I get going I
don't know how to walk away from that ng. They have lately had some
terriffic cross post wars going with the celtic music and history news
groups that have been very interesting such as 'the English are Celts
too' some good lurking to be had there.
At any rate, my point was that when they released an album *without*
Maddy, no one even knew they had a new one.
Lech K. Lesiak wrote in message <7irgvr$9...@ds2.acs.ucalgary.ca>...
Tom G.
>
> >The Promises are blossoming in his life, spontaneously.
>
> IMHO your "friend" is full of shit.
>
> You might mention to your "friend" that AA is a program of honesty.
>
> And the promises come after the ninth step.
I haven't done the ninth step yet and most of the promises have
been fulfilled. How do you explain that, 'o not full of shit one...??
Tom
Edward May
"Tom G." wrote:
> Bodhi wrote:
>
> >
> > >The Promises are blossoming in his life, spontaneously.
> >
> > IMHO your "friend" is full of shit.
> >
> > You might mention to your "friend" that AA is a program of honesty.
> >
> > And the promises come after the ninth step.
>
> I haven't done the ninth step yet and most of the promises have
> been fulfilled. How do you explain that, 'o not full of shit one...??
>
Because you resemble Jack Elam and know a lot about apples and stuff?
(just guessing)
Ed
>
> Tom
>
> \\\|///
> \\ - - //
> ( @ @ )
> ---oOOo-(_)-oOOo-------------------------------
> Tom Gosnell the...@erols.com
> --------------Oooo-----------------------------
> oooO ( )
> ( ) ) / To visit my Website...
> \ ( (_/ Click there --> http://www.erols.com/thegoz/
> \_)
--
"But the new is always an ordeal. Are you strong
enough for what is new?"
Merlin the Magician
Ed H.
Ken ,
My first sponsor is a juicer, so I felt safe that I didn't have to
share any of my drug experiences with him. He has no understanding about
such things. My second sponcer, another juicer, called it the "idiot
drug" and I used to say to myself "what's that old f**k know about it
any way. He never got smoked it." Well I went without it for over 13
years. Got hanging with some friends that were using it and got back in
to using it nightly for the "temporary relief of anxiety." It worked I
thought very well, I thought. Even made me a little more mellow the
following day at work, the effects from the previous night. So the drug
did stay in my system. Maybe you are smoking catnip, oregano or
something else you got sold. The negative aspect of MJ that came back to
haunt me was the "paranoia effect." Now it wasn't that great but it
affected the crap that came into my life. I ended up losing my job for
"out side" reasons, but my being mellow and not having my full faculties
100% of the time contributed to my being canned. (Law of cause and
effect being implemented without my approval)
So I had to get honest with with my sponcer. I told him I had been
smoking for 1 1/2 yrs. and that my life was going down the tubes. I told
him he didn't understand, "MJ is a subtle drug". He replied " Alcohol is
a subtle drug". End of debate. I haven't had any reefer in over a year
now, life is better, got back into feeling more spiritually connected
than before.
Someday, if you stop smoking, you are going to hear a very loud "pop"!
That will be the sound of your head coming out of your ass. But It can
not happen when you are stoned. People have shared with you their honest
experiences with marijuana, and all you have said is "ya but". There are
no "buts" on the spiritual road.
Keep your ears open, Ed
Ed H.
>
> Bodhi wrote:
>
> > <snip>
> >
> > ... a troll ...
>
> Nope, too busy for that kinda stuff. Usedta do it elsewhere for fun, though.
>
> > <snip>
> >
> > ... I went to a meeting in NYC that had a wall full of slogans. I used to sit in meetings and listen, and read the signs. One of the signs said: "You can't be high and sober at the same time".
>
> Not part of AA material, I'm sure. Somebody's arbitrary opinion, that's all.
>
> > It's very simple:
> >
> > 1- Marijuana is a mood altering drug that is highly addictive to certain individuals.
>
> I fully agree, but only in the sense that certain individuals are prone to "fall in love with" a substance. There are no physiologically addicting components to MJ.
>
> > Are you one of those individuals? I have no idea. I leave that for you to discover for yourself.
> >
> > 2 - You can't be high and sober at that same time.
>
> See above.
>
> > Hope this helps..
>
> Thanks for the kind gesture.
>
> Ken Sherwood
Ken,
You may want to check this link out, they are very open minded.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *
Marijuana research:
The Clinton Administration has announced new guidelines
designed to make it
easier for scientists to obtain research-grade marijuana for
their studies.
The medical uses of marijuana continue to be debated, and
the move by the
Office of National Drug Policy is seen as an effort to facilitate
study of
marijuana's potential benefits. Under the guidelines,
marijuana for research
will be grown on government land to guarantee "predictable
potency" and that
it is free of contaminants. For more on marijuana in
medicine, see:
"Medical marijuana - The jury's still out"
http://www.mayohealth.org/mayo/9605/htm/marijuan.htm
* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
pwsm...@mindspring.com
tobacco (the stuff I started on in my pre-teens) I don't smoke maryjane
because I'm scared of what I MIGHT do with regard to drinking. Smoking is
not mentioned in the Preamble or the 12 steps. Bill wilson may have an
opinion about it in the BB or the 12&12. As far as the other AA
"literature" is concerned, I don't read it these days.
The guideline I use for this kind of question for myself is simple: If I
have to ask, the answer is no.
Phil S
unique
Bodhi wrote:
> On Sun, 30 May 1999 06:24:18 GMT , uni...@ptd.net wrote
> >My friend who smokes pot feels the same way. But since he's an alcoholic like
> >me, he foregoes the alcohol. Can't even actually muster up a desire for its
> >effects. He has a good, clear memory of his last withdrawal/detox experience.
> >Through Grace he received the humbling he needed and wanted and had prayed
> >for, painful though it was (the letting go stuff), and now he's One Happy
> Puppy.
> >The Promises are blossoming in his life, spontaneously.
>
> IMHO your "friend" is full of shit.
Please explain, this is interesting.
> You might mention to your "friend" that AA is a program of honesty.
I know for a fact that he's telling the truth.
> And the promises come after the ninth step.
Now you're the one who's full of shit. The Promises don't belong to AA. They are
a subset of God's Grace, which belongs to *everyone*, sober, drunk, AA, not AA,
marijuana, etc.
You're one of the "Pious Ones", aren't you? I've heard about you guys, but I'd
never really met one till now.
Ken Sherwood
unique
Ed H. wrote:
> unique wrote:
> >
> > Bodhi wrote:
> >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > ... a troll ...
> >
> > Nope, too busy for that kinda stuff. Usedta do it elsewhere for fun, though.
> >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > ... I went to a meeting in NYC that had a wall full of slogans. I used to sit in meetings and listen, and read the signs. One of the signs said: "You can't be high and sober at the same time".
> >
> > Not part of AA material, I'm sure. Somebody's arbitrary opinion, that's all.
> >
> > > It's very simple:
> > >
> > > 1- Marijuana is a mood altering drug that is highly addictive to certain individuals.
> >
> > I fully agree, but only in the sense that certain individuals are prone to "fall in love with" a substance. There are no physiologically addicting components to MJ.
> >
> > > Are you one of those individuals? I have no idea. I leave that for you to discover for yourself.
> > >
> > > 2 - You can't be high and sober at that same time.
> >
> > See above.
> >
> > > Hope this helps..
> >
> > Thanks for the kind gesture.
> >
> > Ken Sherwood
>
> Ken ,
>
>
> My first sponsor is a juicer, so I felt safe that I didn't have to
> share any of my drug experiences with him. He has no understanding about
> such things. My second sponcer, another juicer, called it the "idiot
> drug" and I used to say to myself "what's that old f**k know about it
> any way. He never got smoked it." Well I went without it for over 13
> years. Got hanging with some friends that were using it and got back in
> to using it nightly for the "temporary relief of anxiety." It worked I
> thought very well, I thought. Even made me a little more mellow the
> following day at work, the effects from the previous night. So the drug
> did stay in my system. Maybe you are smoking catnip, oregano or
> something else you got sold.
Sheesh. For the *fourth* time, I never said anything about me smoking marijuana. Geez some-a you guys like to jump to conclusions, doncha?
> The negative aspect of MJ that came back to
> haunt me was the "paranoia effect."
You smoked too much. Not smart. Not really that hard to avoid.
> Now it wasn't that great but it
> affected the crap that came into my life. I ended up losing my job for
> "out side" reasons, but my being mellow and not having my full faculties
> 100% of the time contributed to my being canned. (Law of cause and
> effect being implemented without my approval)
Hell, that was all *your* responsibility, not marijuana's.
> So I had to get honest with with my sponcer.
Why not honest from the get-go? Anything less is sorta half-assed.
> I told him I had been
> smoking for 1 1/2 yrs. and that my life was going down the tubes. I told
> him he didn't understand, "MJ is a subtle drug". He replied " Alcohol is
> a subtle drug". End of debate. I haven't had any reefer in over a year
> now, life is better, got back into feeling more spiritually connected
> than before.
> Someday, if you stop smoking,
Gimme a break, see above.
> you are going to hear a very loud "pop"!
> That will be the sound of your head coming out of your ass. But It can
> not happen when you are stoned.
You left out the "IMHO".
> People have shared with you their honest
> experiences with marijuana, and all you have said is "ya but".
Not so, you are distorting the truth in order to make your point. Now I wonder whether you've done this elsewhere in your post, too?
> There are
> no "buts" on the spiritual road.
Y'know, Ed, to my way of understanding, there are no *absolutes* on the spiritual road, either.
> Keep your ears open, Ed
They tend to flap shut in the presence of The Pious Ones.
Ken Sherwood
Buddy H.
> rabbit tobacco (the stuff I started on in my pre-teens)
What is this?
--
Regards,
Buddy
Lech K. Lesiak
> Custer Larue?????
> Don't even know who they are except that they are or were into like,
> Bach or something along those lines?? Are they still around and are
> they worth paying cash to hear?
Custer Larue is a woman who sings with a group called Baltimore Consort.
Cheers,
Lech
Lech K. Lesiak
> Are you going to actually sit there and try to claim with a straight face
> that you *can* be high and sober at the same time?
In my own case, yes. What others say is their business.
Cheers,
Lech
Skyjumper
what I would suggest is that you follow your logic. If this line of
reasoning and behavior appeals to you, and you and those that feel like you
do can stay sober and productive, then good for you! You certainly don't
need AA or any other program that would tell you otherwise, find one in line
with your thoughts. I used to feel that way too, and spent a lot of time
justifying my feelings to people around me, which I found was just a way to
convince myself that what I did was OK. If this is not your experience, then
great! Keep on doing what you do because it works for you.
Incidently, here is what Webster's has to say about intoxicant.....
: something that intoxicates; especially : an alcoholic drink
...and as the transitive verb....
: to excite or stupefy by alcohol or a drug especially to the point where
physical and mental control is markedly diminished b : to excite or elate to
the point of enthusiasm or frenzy
Good luck to you!
--
Mark H. aka
Skyjumper
------------------------
It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll
I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. - W E Henley
unique wrote in message <3750D6EF...@ptd.net>...
>Skyjumper wrote:
>
>> See, you did it to yourself.
>
>Did what? :-)
>
>> You said the word "intoxicant" when speaking of
>> pot. The words "sober"
>
>Means "not drunk".
>
>> and "intoxicant"
>
>Any "poison" (toxic) taken into the system.
>
>> mix as well as tequila, gin and
>> grapefruit juice (now why did I say that, my stomach just did a
flip-flop).
>>
>> Now, in my exaulted opinion, which is just for me, and only for me mind
you,
>> the purpose of being sober is to live life without the use of
>> intoxicants...you know that old "life on life's terms".
>
>Could we replace "intoxicants" with "mood alterers"? I think it would make
this
>an even more interesting discussion.
>
>So, life on life's terms. And life includes many mood alterers. We're all
doing
>it all the time, whether we're aware of it or not, just because it's a
natural
>instinct of any animal to avoid pain and to approach pleasure. We do what
feels
>good. This "feeling good" can of course include rational considerations,
etc.
>Something feels right, we do it. Doing it alters our mood in a pleasurable
way.
>
>I like roller coasters. Riding them induces neurochemical changes in me
that I
>find extremely pleasurable. Same with those fast-drop rides. Even a speedy
>elevator, going down, will do nicely.
>
>> This is because, and here's the kicker, they don't work anymore.
>
>Well of course *if* they don't work anymore, why continue?
>
>> They don't do what they are supposed to do.
>
>"Supposed to do"?
>
>> They don't make you feel better, more relaxed, more
>> clear-headed, or anything like that.
>
>Are we talking about marijuana?
>
>> I believe that in AA the phrase is "a
>> drink or a substitute". So you are using a substitute.
>
>For the third time, I never said I'm using marijuana.
>
>Now I need a list of substitutes. One highly respected man at a top rehab
in
>the US clearly includes caffeine, nicotine, and sugar. Are these on your
list?
>
>> For me, none of this
>> stuff does anything but get me in trouble,
>
>No self-discipline?
>
>> and I know that if I were smoking
>> pot, it would just put me in a position that would greatly enhance the
>> probablilty that I may just think a drink is a good idea.
>
>No "it" wouldn't put you in a position. Only *you* put you in a position.
>
>"*Smoke pot* must lead to *drink alcohol*."? Not if you don't define it as
such
>to yourself. What need one thing have to do with another?
>
>> So I don't want to even tempt fate.
>
>I wouldn't ever ask anyone to, and I, too, use the "tempting fate" feeling
as a
>guideline in choosing behavior.
>
>> Besides, I made a promise to God a long time ago about my
>> drug use....and I keep my promises because He kept His.
>>
>> It is looked down on simple because so many people go out.
>
>Weak character. I've met 'em too. They didn't smoke pot to get high, they
>smoked pot to get fucked up. The ones who didn't "go out", I'd bet they
smoked
>pot to get high.
>
>> We call it
>> "Marajuana Maintenance" around here too. Just some solid experience
talking.
>> But I suggest you try it out. But if you can't seem to get more than a
>> couple of months, you just may want to listen for a while.....
>>
>> HEY Kimba! Stop hogging the pita chips! Anyone for more Iced Tea????
>
>Caffeine addict? :-)
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Ken Sherwood
>
Derek M.
> On 30 May 1999, Bodhi wrote:
>
>
> a load of hooey, AA is a program of not drinking, and that some people get
> the promises without the dogmatic AA codswallop.
>
> MJ never harmed me - cigarettes and booze did. Can't speak for anyone
> else.
>
> Cheers,
> Lech
>
how do cigarettes harm you and not MJ? MJ introduces more carcinogens into
the body than cigarettes do.
Derek
Mollypup
>>
>>
>>
>> Remove NOSPAM to reply
>>
>
>If so, I'm sure he's getting porked.
>
>--
>Erwin
>
>