Hovercraft and the U.S. Department of Customs
Rochester Hovercraft
officials on 8/9/2001, regarding the importation of hovercraft to the USA.
Only the names have been changed to make them funnier.
I have an opportunity to purchase a hovercraft. The only problem: It is in
Canada, I am in New York. Not to big of a problem, I think, but I say to
myself, "Self, you need to see what U.S. Customs has to say about importing
a hovercraft."
So I call the local U.S. Customs department in Rochester...
Ring, ring,..
USC DUDE: "Customs."
ME: "Hi, what do I need to import a hovercraft from Canada to New York, and
what is the duty that I can expect to be charged?"
One second, two seconds, three seconds, four seconds...
USC DUDE: "You want to import a WHAT?"
ME: "A hovercraft."
One second, two seconds, three seconds, four seconds...
USC DUDE: "Hold please."
Two minutes on hold...
USC DUDE: "You'll have to call our office in Buffalo, and ask for an Import
Specialist. The number is blah blah blah..."
So I call the Import Specialist in Buffalo...
Ring, ring,..
IS CHICK: "Customs."
ME: "Hi, I need to speak to an Import Specialist."
IS CHICK: You got one."
ME: "Great. I want to buy a hovercraft in Canada and bring it back to New
York. What paperwork and what duty will there be?"
One second, two seconds, three seconds, four seconds...
IS CHICK: "You want to import a WHAT?"
ME: "A hovercraft."
One second, two seconds, three seconds, four seconds
IS CHICK: "Hold please."
One minute on hold...
IS CHICK: "Is the hovercraft going to be used for Military applications?"
Well, until this time, I hadn't really thought seriously about invading
other countries, but now....
ME: "Uhhh, no."
One second, two seconds, three seconds, four seconds...
IS CHICK: "Hold please."
30 seconds later...
IS CHICK: “Sir, who is the manufacturer of the hovercraft?”
ME: “It’s a home built hovercraft. The plans were provided by Universal
Hovercraft, located in McHenry, Illinois.”
IS CHICK: “Who provided the building materials?”
ME: “ I dunno. Home Depot of Canada?”
IS CHICK: "Sir, I'll have to call you back with the information you
requested in 15 minutes."
ME: "Ok, my number is blah blah blah..."
15 minutes pass...
30 minutes pass...
45 minutes pass...
60 minutes pass...
Ring, ring....
ME: "Hello?"
POS TELEMARKETER: "Hi sir, I'd like to tell you about this GREAT life
insurance poli...."
CLICK! Dammit, why do they always call when you are in the shower, on the
crapper, or waiting for an important phone call?
15 minutes pass...
Ring, ring....
ME: "Hello?"
IS CHICK: “Hello, this is the U.S. Customs Import Specialist in Buffalo
returning your call. I tried calling 15 minutes ago, but the line was
busy.”
Go figure.
ME: “Ok, what did you find out?”
IS CHICK: “Well, I need some more information. Is a hovercraft a boat?”
ME: “Well, when you stop the engines over water, it will float like a boat.
Unlike a boat, it can fly over land.”
IS CHICK: “Oh. Ok. I see. Hold please.”
One minute on hold...
IS CHICK: “Sir, how will you be bringing the hovercraft back to the USA?”
ME: “It’s on a flatbed type trailer.”
IS CHICK: “Ok. Hold please.”
One minute on hold...
IS CHICK: “Sir, I have some good news. A hovercraft falls into the
EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT category. This means that it will have to be declared
at the border, but it will be duty free.”
ME: “Great!”
IS CHICK: “The trailer, however, may or may not be duty free. If it is
designed exclusively for hovercraft, then it is duty free as well. But if
it is not just for hovercraft, you will have to pay duty on it.”
ME: “Ok.”
IS CHICK: “Now here’s the complicated part: if the trailer was not
manufactured in the United States, you can not bring it across the border.
You would need to hire a special courier to get it across for you.”
ME: “Uhh, ok?”
IS CHICK: “If the trailer is made in America, you will need to prove this by
having the manufacturer of the trailer send you a letter on company
letterhead paper, stating that the trailer is made in the USA. Hopefully,
there is an identification tag on the frame of the trailer, stating the
manufacturer and where it was made.”
ME: “Ok, thanks.”
Click.
To summarize: Hovercrafts are duty free. Hovercraft trailers designed
exclusively for hovercrafts are duty free. And hovercraft trailers must be
made in the USA to get them across the border without a problem.
If I buy this hovercraft, stay tuned for Part 2: The Registration. I’m
absolutely sure the phrase “You want to register a WHAT?” will come up.
Look! Over the bay! It’s a boat! It’s a plane! It’s SUPERAMPHIBIAN!!
--
H.O.R.N.Y - Hovercrafters Of Rochester, New York
Website: http://rochesterhover.tripod.com/
Email: rochest...@yahoo.com
Coinopdoc
John
Robert Ball
referred me to the Seattle office since I would be importing the craft from
Canada into Washington, then traveling to California. No problem on the hover,
Customs wanted to see a hull identification number (HIN, like a VIN number) but
accepted that it was not finished and had never been registered (rudders and
prop had been removed for a 1500 mile trip so it looked incomplete); I showed
them the plans with a US address on them (SEVTEC from WA). They said OK and
gave up asking for a smog emissions label when I told them it was a car engine
(Subaru) and the label would have been on the donor car and I would have to
address emissions when I registered my hover as a boat in California (Calif.
didn't even ask when I registered it).
I wasted over three hours trying to get the trailer approved. No duties, just
had to prove it meet DOT standards; they didn't know what the standards were or
interested in inspecting for them, just that someone else such as the
manufacturer certified the trailer. Best solution, if your Motor Vehicle folks
(DMV) will issue you a temporary license or permit, then you should be able to
cross the border with your NY registration. My trailer had British Columbia
plates; I kicked myself for not getting California plates good for three days to
allow transport of a vehicle. If NY has a similar program, it would be the
easiest way to solve the problem. Otherwise, take a trailer from NY with you,
sell the Canadian trailer, and bring your hover home.
Epilog: I took wire, screws, screw gun, and wire splicing materials and
clearance lights as I was aware that the trailer needed them to be legal. It
had safety chains and a "manufactured" hitch. That means that bolted
connections to the hitch, etc. are not allowed. Customs referred me to a broker
who told me it would be about a $1000 to do the paperwork and arrange for a
bonded carrier to transport the hover and trailer. I dropped the trailer and
went into WA to U-Haul but it was at night on a holiday weekend and there were
no auto transporter trailers available at 3 dealers; the trailers are open in
the middle so the trailer tongue would be a problem. I couldn't figure a way to
transfer the hover (16'L X 8' wide and about 900 lb) onto a U-Haul trailer and
sell the Canadian trailer to someone real cheap. I found a flatbed tow truck
that would carry it across the border and drop it at the next highway exit for
me, which was acceptable to Customs as long as it didn't roll on its own wheels
through the checkpoint. I reminded the Customs guys that it would have to be
legal to get plates for it in Calif.; no good. Finally, the supervisor allowed
us to proceed by routing us around the crossing checkpoint. I cleaned up the
the trailer, installed those items required by US Coast Guard and took both to
Calif. DMV. They inspected the trailer and issued license; they issued HIN and
registered the hovercraft as a boat.
Rochester Hovercraft
I'm not sure if this hover has been assigned a HIN or not, I do not know
what Canadas policy is on that. I'll look for one when I check it out.
As for selling the trailer, no can do. I need it. I have been able to find
the specs for it at http://www.hovertechnics.com/Trailers/trailer%20700.htm,
so hopefully I will have whatever info customs will need.
--
H.O.R.N.Y - Hovercrafters Of Rochester, New York
Website: http://rochesterhover.tripod.com/
Email: rochest...@yahoo.com
"Robert Ball" <rwba...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B749DEE...@home.com...
Rick
Rochester Hovercraft wrote:
I have an opportunity to purchase a hovercraft. The only problem: It is in
Canada, I am in New York.
To summarize: Hovercrafts are duty free. Hovercraft trailers designed
exclusively for hovercrafts are duty free. And hovercraft trailers must be
made in the USA to get them across the border without a problem.
What ever happened to free trade? There is no duty to be paid (at least there should't be any under Canada-US free trade agreement . . . unless it's lumber, or . . .) It appears at times as if the customs officials were never given the latest version of the procedures manual!
I live in Nova Scotia and get the same kind of CRAP whenever I try to bring something into Canada by mail. Last time, a $25 computer program with manual cost me $35 in brokerage fees, and for what . . . just to have them confirm to me that there was no duty owing on the package.
I'm waiting on plans from UH and Sevtec and expect to have to go through the same again. And all of that after paying 52 cents more on the dollar because of exchange rates.
I think its a conspiracy . . . customs officers are doing everything they can to keep their jobs, since under the free trade agreement, they should now all be extinct! And brokers are having beers with the customs officers at night, to make sure that they too can continue to make the rest of society poorer!
As for DOT, well that's a whole other matter (I won't go there now).
If I buy this hovercraft, stay tuned for Part 2: The Registration. I’m
absolutely sure the phrase “You want to register a WHAT?” will come up.
Hey, at least here in Canada hovercrafts are considered to be aircraft. They don't need to be registered if payload is under 1 metric tonne (about 2,200 lbs), and then they become registered as hovercraft, not boats. However, one must still follow marine law when on water.
On that note, in 1971 or 1972 a friend of mine got stopped by police for flying a hovercraft about one block down a side street into a park, on-way to the beech and nearby lake. The cop scratched his head, radioed in, scratched his head again, then other parts, and concluded that he could do nothing to my friend because he was "over" the road, not "on" it (that's because hovercrafts are considered to be aircraft). Luckily, my friend pulled over into another friend's driveway, so the cop could't do anything about the hovercraft landing (he could have had it landed on the shoulder). In the end, the cop asked that in future the hovercraft be pushed down the street (on lift) instead of being flown using thrust.
Moral of this story . . . if pulled over while flying a hovercraft on the road in Canada, land in someone's driveway and take your chances with them on possible trespassing charges.
Robert Ball
C. Bailey
"Rick" <rgh...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:3B74B8A6...@ns.sympatico.ca...
Dave Schneider
I get the same treatment if I cross over into Canada and attempt to come
back into the US? Anyone with experiences with that?
Rochester Hovercraft <rochest...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:if_c7.250208$EF2.30...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
Rick
"C. Bailey" wrote:
Someone told me there is an 18,000 page document governing the rules of free trade. How "free" could it be? Chris
Absolutely not free at all. And if the 18,000 page figure is correct, then as tax payers we've paid through the nose for what I believe amounts to nothing more than an illusion.
But then that's what government is for . . . to waste money, and to spend our hard earned dollars just to make our lives more difficult. And further, as a small business operator I'm asked to collect their tax (HST) for them, often having to take out bridge loans to maintain cash flow to pay it if invoices that have not yet been received before the tax is due, with the promise of fines and/or jail if I make a late payment. That's part of the reason there is such an underground market in Canada, and one reason why I would seriously consider leaving Canada to persue my profession in the US.
Off topic, perhaps. But if I do end up leaving Canada for the US, then I'll be faced having to import a Canadian built hovercraft (but built mostly with parts from the US . . . foam, engine, skirt fabric, epoxy . . . none of that is manufactured in Canada!). So I guess I am on topic after all He-He-He . . . Eh!
Too-Much
for a form and fill it in. In Canada its a green sticker that permits
me to bring back things that I had in my truck before crossing to the
US.
I know that the US operate the same way.
HoverMac
Why would you be coming to the US? I'm from NS, did two years at NSIT
and now working in Michigan. I got myself a hovercraft hull and am now
building it. The trailer was never registered and the craft does have
a serial #. If I moved back to Canada I suppose I might have to drop
'em and bend over>:(
Rochester Hovercraft
news:tneausr...@corp.supernews.com...
> I'm a US resident. If I have a home built trailer with plates on it,
will
> I get the same treatment if I cross over into Canada and attempt to come
> back into the US? Anyone with experiences with that?
You should have no problem if the trailer is US registered. The problem is
only when you try to bring a Canadian registered trailer into the USA with
intention to keep it in the USA.
Rick
HoverMac wrote:
For the reasons described in my earlier post and probably for the same
reason you are no longer in NS. I'm taxed to death, and as a business
owner, I'm forced to collect and tax my clients to death too. Then local
government tries to do what business does, putting the rest of us out of
work because they use the tax we pay to subsidize their chargeout fees.
They call that public/private partnering. Of course, once you're bent
over, it gives a whole other meaning to "private sector" . . . eeeuuuu!
:-(.
However, the one good thing about being here is that since hovercraft in
Canada are considered aircraft and only those with payloads above 1 tonne
need to be registered, I don't need to worry about serial numbers for
hovercrafts.
Gordon McAndrew
;>
;>
;>
Were do you get that information? It is contrary to all the info I have
collected in the last 20 years.
BTW I live in Canada!
Gordon McAndrew
C. Bailey
According to him, hovercraft are to be registered as boats and will have to
adhere to the new boating laws in Canada. Hopefully Bob is following this
thread and can update us.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Rennick"
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: FW: New ACV regulations.
> Gentlement,
>
> I had a couple of good conversations today with Ray Crick of Transport
> Canada and Jean Pontbriand of the Coast Guard.
>
> Ray tells me that they have completed their commercial operational
> requirements document but are unable to provide me with a draught copy
until
> it is vetted internally in TC. He says I'll be one of the first outside
TC
> to get a copy for comment. On the phone he seems very receptive and
> reasonable (as opposed to some of the other mandarins from TC). This new
> document is his principle job right now.
>
> Jean seems very pleased that we (the club) are producing a set of safety
> regulations and is anxious to get a copy. He is hoping that the CCG will
be
> able to "endorse" the regs, thereby making them more "official" rather
than
> regulatory. The CCG has had major cutbacks and is unable to devote staff
to
> the recreational ACV regs and he is hoping we can be self-regulating. He
> encourages us to obtain boating registration and to follow all current
> boating requirements. This means if the boating regs say carry a paddle -
> you'd better carry a paddle! See the CCG's recreational boating guide and
> follow it.
>
> A bit of news. Apparently I was wrong last week at our AGM in stating
that
> we're still aircraft. There have been recent changes (as recent as Feb.
> 25th) that have moved us into the realm of boats.
>
> Bob
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
"Gordon McAndrew" <gor...@arc.ab.ca> wrote in message news:3b7d2236.417667@
news.ab.tac.net...
Dave Schneider
there is no trailer registration. So now I'm welding away modifying this
trailer (cut off the fenders ... for now, and adding cross braces for the
plywood deck). When I get to the front and I'm thinking that I'll probably
burn off the serial number, so I remove the serial number plate. I look
closely and it's manufactured in CAN with CAN DOT verification (no US DOT
plate). Hmmm, now I have a potential problem if I want to cross over into
CAN. I'm thinking I should probably leave the CAN plate off and make sure I
can cross back over before heading into CAN. The trailer is so modified at
this point, there is no way I can return it.
Dave Schneider <schn...@isd.net> wrote in message
news:tneausr...@corp.supernews.com...
Rick
Thanks for copying the email. It expresses what I understand to be the direction
that things will move in. But as far as I know, the regulators are not there yet
and no one is certain when they will be. The move to registering hovercraft as
boats is to parallel the US model, along with many other issues (such as: in
commercial passenger water craft in the US there must be one crew member for
every life raft on board; that is not a requirement in Canada yet, but will be
soon).
Gordon,
Hovercraft in Canada are registered by TC under the aeronotics division as a
class of aircraft. I know that because I have just two days ago reviewed the
letter of authorization (i.e. letter of registration) allowing the Ladyhalk to
offer tour rides in Halifax. That hovercraft is registered as an aircraft, but
it must be piloted by a person with a Master Pilot License and the hovercraft
must follow all marine law.
I have been involved in hovercraft since 1971 (albeit with a hiatus in there)
and I know that back then hovercraft were also registered as aircraft. I know
this because of my involvement with a City of Ottawa police officer one day
regarding the hovercraft a friend of mine flew back in 1971. After the officer
had spent about an hour a) trying to determine what a hovercraft was, and b) how
to ticket it for crossing a quiet neighbourhood road, the issue was finally
resolved, by the officer telling my frient something to this effect: "Your
hovercraft is classified in Canada as an aircraft and as such, it is outside my
jurisdiction. I can do nothing to stop you from crossing the road unless you are
causing a danger to motorists. I appologize for having you wait so long to come
to this conclusion, however, in the future in respect of my concern, please push
the hovercraft across road instead of flying it across."
As Chris has noted so well by copy of the email, TC are in the process of
changing the registration of hovercraft to boats, but a current hovercraft
registration as aircraft for a 20 passenger machine that flies past the Halifax
Coast Guard base every 30 minutes suggests to me that that is not yet so.
Regarding the 1 tonne payload thing for small craft, I appologize for confusing
hovercraft registration with the Canadian ACV construction standards. More
specifically, I was make reference to document TP 5579E entitled "Standards
Relating to Design, Construction and Operational Safety of Dynamically Supported
Craft in Canada. Volume 1. - Design, Construction, Testing and Documentation of
Air Cushion Vehicles." dated Ottawa December 1985. The Standard applies to all
A.C.V's designed, constructed, registered and/or operated in Canada of in
Canadian waters, which are subject to provisions of the Canada Shipping Act,
except A.C.V's that accomodate less than 12 passengers, or carry any combination
of persons, cargo, freight or equipment so that the total payload is less than 1
tonne.
If you know of any other regulations and/or standards that might affect Canadian
hovercraft owners, please let us know.
C. Bailey
I expect to finish my hovercraft shortly. I'm not clear what the regulatory
requirements are for hovercraft in Canada. It will be a non-commercial
craft. I've heard that a flashing yellow light is required under
international law. If I am not on international waters, do I require it? I
know boats have specific requirements about safety equipment (throwing line,
PFD's, flashlight, sounding device, bailing bucket, etc.). Is this required
for a hovercraft? An operator's permit is required for some boats now. Are
hovercraft operator's required to have it? Liability insurance is required
for ATV's - do I require this? Boats require some kind of serial number or
name plate. Do hovercrafts require this? I believe the Hovercraft Club of
Canada's Safety Recommendations were to include some statement to the effect
that all hovercraft required a full guard around the prop. Is this a
requirement? If we fall under aircraft in Canada, is there any specific
regulations I need to know about of concern to us with hovercraft.
In conclusion, I am really confused as to what the Canadian regulations are
or where I can go to get further information. Any help appreciated.
Chris
"Rick" <rgh...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:3B9B088D...@ns.sympatico.ca...
Gordon McAndrew
and also I wanted to follow the law that said that if I operate the craft on
crown land I had to have an ATV license. So I bugged my insurance broker and
after a bit of arm twisting and threatening to move to a different broker that
said it was possible but he wanted all my business. They went to higher
management of "Western Union Facility" and got the OK to give me insurance for
my home built hovercraft. It is an ATV insurance under the classification of
"self propelled vehicle" with a 25 hp or less propulsion engine. The engine
power determines the category. This category is $109 C for $1,000,000
liability. The next up is $149. The insurance is good for operating on any
surface including water. I now have an ATV license plate to put on my
hovercraft and a pink insurance slip that was required to get the plate.
As far as I know otherwise for small hovercraft you are urged to get a boat
license, but I believe it to be optional especially if you have an ATV plate.
Rick's note is about larger craft that have different rules.
"C. Bailey" <cc__b...@telusplanet.net> wrote:
;>Thanks Bob,
;>
;>I expect to finish my hovercraft shortly. I'm not clear what the regulatory
;>requirements are for hovercraft in Canada. It will be a non-commercial
;>craft. I've heard that a flashing yellow light is required under
;>international law. If I am not on international waters, do I require it? I
;>know boats have specific requirements about safety equipment (throwing line,
;>PFD's, flashlight, sounding device, bailing bucket, etc.). Is this required
;>for a hovercraft? An operator's permit is required for some boats now. Are
;>hovercraft operator's required to have it? Liability insurance is required
;>for ATV's - do I require this? Boats require some kind of serial number or
;>name plate. Do hovercrafts require this? I believe the Hovercraft Club of
;>Canada's Safety Recommendations were to include some statement to the effect
;>that all hovercraft required a full guard around the prop. Is this a
;>requirement? If we fall under aircraft in Canada, is there any specific
;>regulations I need to know about of concern to us with hovercraft.
;>
;>In conclusion, I am really confused as to what the Canadian regulations are
;>or where I can go to get further information. Any help appreciated.
;>
;>Chris
Gordon McAndrew
C. Bailey
Wildlife officer with some confidence that you are not classified as a boat
when/if they stop you for not having an operating license for a boat.....
Chris
"Gordon McAndrew" <gor...@arc.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:3b9c24e6...@news.ab.tac.net...
NWCedarDecks
>and also I wanted to follow the law that said that if I operate the craft on
>crown land I had to have an ATV license. So I bugged my insurance broker and
I want to know were it says you can't drive your boat on land.
Also when you in the water don't you need a boat license?
ED