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Texas Motorist Protection Act
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JohnJohnsn
Jan 2, 2012, 12:29:48 PM1/2/12
to
Texas Motorist Protection Act
In 2009 the Texas legislature passed HB 1815, also known as The
Motorist Protection Act (MPA). The bill affects the Penal Code,
allowing citizens to carry a handgun "inside of or directly en route
to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's
control", providing:
•the handgun remains concealed
•the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating
traffic
•the person is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm
•the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
Prior to the passage of this bill it was illegal to have a handgun in
your car unless you were traveling or directly en route to a location
for hunting or a shooting sports event. The definition of "traveling"
was never clearly spelled out and was determined by case law. All this
means that a citizen that meets the above four exemptions and is not
licensed to carry a concealed handgun can keep a loaded handgun in
their vehicle, but there are a few things that you should consider.
Lock it up!
First, secure your gun when leaving your vehicle. You can't take it
with you unless licensed to carry, and the glove box or console isn't
enough to keep it from being stolen should your car be broken into.
Install a small safe or lock box that bolts to the floor or locks with
a chain or cable to the seat or body of the vehicle somehow. Make it
as difficult to walk away with as you possibly can. Don't put guns
into the hands of criminals.
Keep it out of sight!
When driving you can keep it at the ready, but be smart about it.
Don't put it in the glove box on top of your insurance card, in case
you are stopped by the police for a traffic violation. The officer
probably won't have much of a sense of humor about an incident like
that. Don't take it to the full service car wash, where an attendant
may find it while detailing the interior of your car. It shouldn't be
seen by anyone, anywhere. If someone sees it you may be reported to
the police, or worse.
Federal property!
Any federally-owned property such as the post office (including the
parking lot) is off-limits. Certain state parks in Texas are Army
Corps of Engineers projects and therefore Federal land, and off-
limits. You are not violating any state laws here, but Federal law
applies. Do your homework and know before you get there.
Employer parking lots!
If your employer has a "no weapons" policy prohibiting you from having
a weapon in your car while in the parking lot you could be fired if
you get caught, but it may even be enforceable by state or federal law
depending on where you work. Again, do your own research and know for
sure what you're doing.
[ This issue was addressed by the Texas Legislature in 2011 by
[ SB321, Parking Lot Protection for armed citizens
[ http://www.gunlaws.com/tgogup6-2011.htm
Police interaction!
Just remember, that as long as you meet the four exemptions listed
above you aren't doing anything wrong. Don't be nervous. Be polite,
and follow the officer's instructions. You are not required to notify
the officer that you have a weapon in your vehicle, unless you are
licensed to carry it. Don't blurt out "I have a gun in the car!" Just
behave yourself.
I strongly urge anyone who can legally and responsibly carry a handgun
for their own protection apply for a Concealed Handgun License and do
so. But until you take that step, the MPA allows you to protect
yourself in your vehicle as if you were in your own home. Be smart and
cautious, and be safe.
-30-
http://safety-on.com/index.php/carrying-a-handgun-in-your-car.html
In 2009 the Texas legislature passed HB 1815, also known as The
Motorist Protection Act (MPA). The bill affects the Penal Code,
allowing citizens to carry a handgun "inside of or directly en route
to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's
control", providing:
•the handgun remains concealed
•the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating
traffic
•the person is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm
•the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
Prior to the passage of this bill it was illegal to have a handgun in
your car unless you were traveling or directly en route to a location
for hunting or a shooting sports event. The definition of "traveling"
was never clearly spelled out and was determined by case law. All this
means that a citizen that meets the above four exemptions and is not
licensed to carry a concealed handgun can keep a loaded handgun in
their vehicle, but there are a few things that you should consider.
Lock it up!
First, secure your gun when leaving your vehicle. You can't take it
with you unless licensed to carry, and the glove box or console isn't
enough to keep it from being stolen should your car be broken into.
Install a small safe or lock box that bolts to the floor or locks with
a chain or cable to the seat or body of the vehicle somehow. Make it
as difficult to walk away with as you possibly can. Don't put guns
into the hands of criminals.
Keep it out of sight!
When driving you can keep it at the ready, but be smart about it.
Don't put it in the glove box on top of your insurance card, in case
you are stopped by the police for a traffic violation. The officer
probably won't have much of a sense of humor about an incident like
that. Don't take it to the full service car wash, where an attendant
may find it while detailing the interior of your car. It shouldn't be
seen by anyone, anywhere. If someone sees it you may be reported to
the police, or worse.
Federal property!
Any federally-owned property such as the post office (including the
parking lot) is off-limits. Certain state parks in Texas are Army
Corps of Engineers projects and therefore Federal land, and off-
limits. You are not violating any state laws here, but Federal law
applies. Do your homework and know before you get there.
Employer parking lots!
If your employer has a "no weapons" policy prohibiting you from having
a weapon in your car while in the parking lot you could be fired if
you get caught, but it may even be enforceable by state or federal law
depending on where you work. Again, do your own research and know for
sure what you're doing.
[ This issue was addressed by the Texas Legislature in 2011 by
[ SB321, Parking Lot Protection for armed citizens
[ http://www.gunlaws.com/tgogup6-2011.htm
Police interaction!
Just remember, that as long as you meet the four exemptions listed
above you aren't doing anything wrong. Don't be nervous. Be polite,
and follow the officer's instructions. You are not required to notify
the officer that you have a weapon in your vehicle, unless you are
licensed to carry it. Don't blurt out "I have a gun in the car!" Just
behave yourself.
I strongly urge anyone who can legally and responsibly carry a handgun
for their own protection apply for a Concealed Handgun License and do
so. But until you take that step, the MPA allows you to protect
yourself in your vehicle as if you were in your own home. Be smart and
cautious, and be safe.
-30-
http://safety-on.com/index.php/carrying-a-handgun-in-your-car.html
Wayne
Jan 2, 2012, 1:20:59 PM1/2/12
to
"JohnJohnsn" wrote in message
news:89d16929-261b-473d...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Texas Motorist Protection Act
>In 2009 the Texas legislature passed HB 1815, also known as The
>Motorist Protection Act (MPA). The bill affects the Penal Code,
>allowing citizens to carry a handgun "inside of or directly en route
>to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's
>control", providing:
>
>�the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
>misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating
>traffic
>�the person is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm
>traffic
>�the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
<snip>
>Federal property!
>
>Any federally-owned property such as the post office (including the
>parking lot) is off-limits. Certain state parks in Texas are Army
>Corps of Engineers projects and therefore Federal land, and off-
>limits. You are not violating any state laws here, but Federal law
>applies. Do your homework and know before you get there.
-
My understanding, with the recent law changes, is that state laws apply on
federal land, but federal buildings are off-limits.
Thus, I can carry concealed (with a permit) on federal lands such as
national parks, but not in buildings such as ranger stations. Lately,
nearly all park buildings carry a "no weapons" sign.
Sanders Kaufman
Jan 2, 2012, 1:25:17 PM1/2/12
to
"Wayne" <mygarb...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:jdssic$5p6$1...@dont-email.me...
> Thus, I can carry concealed (with a permit) on federal lands such as
> national parks, but not in buildings such as ranger stations. Lately,
> nearly all park buildings carry a "no weapons" sign.
With all the gun-nuts talking about how they want to see federal officials
murdered, and with so many actually trying, that's the right thing for them
to do.
After all, some sociopath gun-nut just murdered a park ranger a couple of
days ago on Mt. Ranier.
news:jdssic$5p6$1...@dont-email.me...
> Thus, I can carry concealed (with a permit) on federal lands such as
> national parks, but not in buildings such as ranger stations. Lately,
> nearly all park buildings carry a "no weapons" sign.
murdered, and with so many actually trying, that's the right thing for them
to do.
After all, some sociopath gun-nut just murdered a park ranger a couple of
days ago on Mt. Ranier.
BeamMeUpScotty
Jan 2, 2012, 1:36:57 PM1/2/12
to
towards "We The People" or at least that's what Liberal-Progressives
believes about the Muslim Terrorists. You need to understand the gun
nuts. They have been discriminated against and bigoted people have
bullied and picked on them and they have been oppressed and their RIGHTS
have been violated over and over by Democrats.
All the government has to do is listen to the "gun nuts" and capitulate
to their demands and quit trying to MICRO MANAGE their lives.
Isn't that the Obama/Hillary policy for Muslim appeasement?
--
A little Liberalism like a little alcohol, can be a good thing but when
either of them take control, they become self destructive.
Sanders Kaufman
Jan 2, 2012, 1:41:22 PM1/2/12
to
"BeamMeUpScotty" <ThenDestro...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote in
message news:4F01F949...@blackhole.nebulax.com...
But not being cowards, our policy towards criminals remains the same - we
either lock them up or gun them down.
message news:4F01F949...@blackhole.nebulax.com...
> On 1/2/2012 1:25 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>> After all, some sociopath gun-nut just murdered a park ranger a couple
>> of days ago on Mt. Ranier.
>
> That would mean the government needs to re-evaluate their policies
> towards "We The People" or at least that's what Liberal-Progressives
That would be the cowardly thing to do.
>> After all, some sociopath gun-nut just murdered a park ranger a couple
>> of days ago on Mt. Ranier.
>
> That would mean the government needs to re-evaluate their policies
> towards "We The People" or at least that's what Liberal-Progressives
But not being cowards, our policy towards criminals remains the same - we
either lock them up or gun them down.
BeamMeUpScotty
Jan 2, 2012, 1:53:16 PM1/2/12
to
said the war was our fault, our chickens came home to roost....
Well here we are on a new chicken ranch and the chickens are gathering
in mass and they may come home to roost. What will you do then, gun
down and declare war on *WE THE PEOPLE* like you chose to do to Islam?
You declare war way to easily.
JohnJohnsn
Jan 2, 2012, 2:05:56 PM1/2/12
to
On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
Officer Dowm Memorial Page
Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
Park Ranger Chris Nickel
United States Department of the Interior - National Park Service, U.S.
Government
End of Watch: Saturday, January 29, 2011 Bio & Incident Details
Cause: Duty related illness
Park Ranger Chris Nickel passed away while patrolling the Square Tower
Ruin Trail at Hovenweep National Monument in San Juan County, Utah.
A hiker discovered Ranger Nickel collapsed on the trail and
immediately rushed to the visitor center to request assistance.
Paramedics from Colorado, Utah and a medical helicopter from New
Mexico responded but Ranger Nickel was pronounced dead at the scene.
Ranger Nickel had served with the National Park Service for 16 years.
He is survived by his wife and parents.
+++
Park Ranger Julie Weir
United States Department of the Interior - National Park Service, U.S.
Government
End of Watch: Thursday, February 24, 2011
Cause: Automobile accident
Park Ranger Julie Weir was killed in an automobile accident on I-80
near Kearney, Nebraska.
Ranger Weir was on official travel status while relocating from her
permanent position at Independence National Historic Park in
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to a field training assignment at Yosemite
National Park in California. Her vehicle went out of control during a
heavy snow storm, crossed into oncoming traffic, and collided with a
tractor trailer.
Ranger Weir had served as a seasonal law enforcement park ranger with
the National Park Service for 11 years and had just graduated from
FLETC as a full-time law enforcement ranger.
http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2011
> That would mean the government needs to re-evaluate their policies
> towards "We The People" or at least that's what Liberal-Progressives
> believes about the Muslim Terrorists. You need to understand the gun
> nuts. They have been discriminated against and bigoted people have
> bullied and picked on them and they have been oppressed and their
> RIGHTS have been violated over and over by Democrats.
>
> All the government has to do is listen to the "gun nuts" and capitulate
> to their demands and quit trying to MICRO MANAGE their lives.
>
> Isn't that the Obama/Hillary policy for Muslim appeasement?
Don't you know, Scotty? That policy is reserved for "FoDs" (Friends of
Democrats).
<ThenDestroyEveryth...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 1/2/2012 1:25 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>
>> "Wayne" <mygarbage...@verizon.net> wrote in message
>
>
> On 1/2/2012 1:25 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>
>>news:jdssic$5p6$1...@dont-email.me...
>
>>> Thus, I can carry concealed (with a permit) on federal lands such
>>> as national parks, but not in buildings such as ranger stations.
>>> Lately, nearly all park buildings carry a "no weapons" sign.
>
>> With all the gun-nuts talking about how they want to see federal
>> officials murdered, and with so many actually trying, that's the
>> right thing for them to do.
>
>> After all, some sociopath gun-nut just murdered a park ranger
>> a couple of days ago on Mt. Ranier.
Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>
>>> Thus, I can carry concealed (with a permit) on federal lands such
>>> as national parks, but not in buildings such as ranger stations.
>>> Lately, nearly all park buildings carry a "no weapons" sign.
>
>> With all the gun-nuts talking about how they want to see federal
>> officials murdered, and with so many actually trying, that's the
>> right thing for them to do.
>
>> After all, some sociopath gun-nut just murdered a park ranger
>> a couple of days ago on Mt. Ranier.
Officer Dowm Memorial Page
Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
Park Ranger Chris Nickel
United States Department of the Interior - National Park Service, U.S.
Government
End of Watch: Saturday, January 29, 2011 Bio & Incident Details
Cause: Duty related illness
Park Ranger Chris Nickel passed away while patrolling the Square Tower
Ruin Trail at Hovenweep National Monument in San Juan County, Utah.
A hiker discovered Ranger Nickel collapsed on the trail and
immediately rushed to the visitor center to request assistance.
Paramedics from Colorado, Utah and a medical helicopter from New
Mexico responded but Ranger Nickel was pronounced dead at the scene.
Ranger Nickel had served with the National Park Service for 16 years.
He is survived by his wife and parents.
+++
Park Ranger Julie Weir
United States Department of the Interior - National Park Service, U.S.
Government
End of Watch: Thursday, February 24, 2011
Cause: Automobile accident
Park Ranger Julie Weir was killed in an automobile accident on I-80
near Kearney, Nebraska.
Ranger Weir was on official travel status while relocating from her
permanent position at Independence National Historic Park in
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, to a field training assignment at Yosemite
National Park in California. Her vehicle went out of control during a
heavy snow storm, crossed into oncoming traffic, and collided with a
tractor trailer.
Ranger Weir had served as a seasonal law enforcement park ranger with
the National Park Service for 11 years and had just graduated from
FLETC as a full-time law enforcement ranger.
http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2011
> That would mean the government needs to re-evaluate their policies
> towards "We The People" or at least that's what Liberal-Progressives
> believes about the Muslim Terrorists. You need to understand the gun
> nuts. They have been discriminated against and bigoted people have
> bullied and picked on them and they have been oppressed and their
> RIGHTS have been violated over and over by Democrats.
>
> All the government has to do is listen to the "gun nuts" and capitulate
> to their demands and quit trying to MICRO MANAGE their lives.
>
> Isn't that the Obama/Hillary policy for Muslim appeasement?
Democrats).
Sanders Kaufman
Jan 2, 2012, 2:17:21 PM1/2/12
to
"BeamMeUpScotty" <ThenDestro...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote in
message news:4F01FD1C...@blackhole.nebulax.com...
Sober up, fool.
message news:4F01FD1C...@blackhole.nebulax.com...
> On 1/2/2012 1:41 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>>
>> That would be the cowardly thing to do.
>> But not being cowards, our policy towards criminals remains the same -
>> we either lock them up or gun them down.
>
> Obama and Clinton and other Liberal-Progressives like Pelosi and Reid
Have nothing to do with the TMPA or the Ranier shooting.
>>
>> That would be the cowardly thing to do.
>> But not being cowards, our policy towards criminals remains the same -
>> we either lock them up or gun them down.
>
> Obama and Clinton and other Liberal-Progressives like Pelosi and Reid
Sober up, fool.
Sanders Kaufman
Jan 2, 2012, 2:21:17 PM1/2/12
to
"JohnJohnsn" <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:339c1abd-e390-4f66...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named Benjamin
Barnes.
And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his excuse...
if he's taken alive.
news:339c1abd-e390-4f66...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>
>
> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>
> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
>
> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named Benjamin
Barnes.
And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his excuse...
if he's taken alive.
RD Sandman
Jan 2, 2012, 3:05:02 PM1/2/12
to
"Sanders Kaufman" <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote in
news:6tnMq.3171$Ik5....@newsfe03.iad:
He has, apparently, been found dead.
--
It's impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
William G McAdoo
Sleep well, tonight.....
RD (The Sandman)
news:6tnMq.3171$Ik5....@newsfe03.iad:
--
It's impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.
William G McAdoo
Sleep well, tonight.....
RD (The Sandman)
JohnJohnsn
Jan 2, 2012, 3:07:09 PM1/2/12
to
On Jan 2, 1:21 pm, "Sanders Kaufman" <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
>
> "JohnJohnsn" <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
would be 31 December 2011); right, Bucky?
> Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named Benjamin
> Barnes.
What evidence do you offer that he's "right-wing" or even a "gun-nut,"
Buicky?
After all, there are a lot of you Looney Liberal Socialist Democrat
gun control advocates who are also gun owner hypocrites.
> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his excuse...
> if he's taken alive.
Prognostication from a Wanted Trxas Criminal Fugitive Sanders NMI
Kaufman, W/M, DOB 08/03/1965, a/k/a "Bucky the Looney Liberal"
Kaufman.
>
> "JohnJohnsn" <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:339c1abd-e390-4f66...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>
>> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>
>> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
>> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
>
> It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
So you were incorrect when you stated "a couple of days ago" (which
>
>> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>
>> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>
>> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
>> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
>
> It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
would be 31 December 2011); right, Bucky?
> Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named Benjamin
> Barnes.
Buicky?
After all, there are a lot of you Looney Liberal Socialist Democrat
gun control advocates who are also gun owner hypocrites.
> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his excuse...
> if he's taken alive.
Kaufman, W/M, DOB 08/03/1965, a/k/a "Bucky the Looney Liberal"
Kaufman.
BeamMeUpScotty
Jan 2, 2012, 3:14:43 PM1/2/12
to
with the other terrorists in GITMO.
Sanders Kaufman
Jan 2, 2012, 3:18:59 PM1/2/12
to
"BeamMeUpScotty" <ThenDestro...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote in
message news:4F021033...@blackhole.nebulax.com...
Not surprising for someone who used an assault rifle to shoot kids,
party-goers, campers and cops.
In the mean time, another right-wing gun-nut got busted tryng to board a
plane with a suitcase full of explosives.
Had the Republicans got their way a few months ago, TSA would already be
gone and he woud have gotten away with it.
message news:4F021033...@blackhole.nebulax.com...
> On 1/2/2012 2:21 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his
>> excuse... if he's taken alive.
>
> If he's smart he will claim Allah made him do it, so he can be released
> with the other terrorists in GITMO.
Apparently, true to his right-wing heritage, he took the coward's way out.
>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his
>> excuse... if he's taken alive.
>
> If he's smart he will claim Allah made him do it, so he can be released
> with the other terrorists in GITMO.
Not surprising for someone who used an assault rifle to shoot kids,
party-goers, campers and cops.
In the mean time, another right-wing gun-nut got busted tryng to board a
plane with a suitcase full of explosives.
Had the Republicans got their way a few months ago, TSA would already be
gone and he woud have gotten away with it.
JohnJohnsn
Jan 2, 2012, 3:23:54 PM1/2/12
to
On Jan 2, 2:14 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
FOX News
Crime & Courts - US
Police Believe Body Found is Gunman Sought in Mount Rainier National
Park Ranger Shooting
Published January 02, 2012 | Associated Press
MOUNT RAINIER NATIONAL PARK, Washington – Authorities say the body of
an Iraq war veteran suspected in the slaying of a Mount Rainier
National Park ranger was believed to have been found dead in the park
Monday.
He apparently died after trudging into chest-deep snow while trying to
elude snow-shoe wearing SWAT team members and other police who were on
his trail.
Twenty-four-year-old Benjamin Colton Barnes reportedly fled to the
remote park following an earlier shooting that wounded four near
Seattle. Washington State Patrol spokesman Guy Gill says a body
believed to be Barnes was found face down in the snow. The identity of
the body has not been confirmed.
Related Stories
Massachusetts Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/01/massachusetts-trooper-accidentally-shoots-woman-while-hunting/?intcmp=related
The Iraq War veteran being sought in the slaying of a Mount Rainier
National park ranger may have headed to the remote wilderness area to
"hide out" after an earlier shooting near Seattle, authorities said
Monday.
About 200 law enforcement officers were involved in the search for
Barnes, a named a "person of interest" in the Sunday morning killing
of Margaret Anderson.
Police have said a gunman fled into the woods after shooting Anderson.
Barnes, who is believed to have survivalist skills, is also a suspect
in a 3 a.m. shooting at a house party in Skyway, Wash., that left four
people wounded.
"We're speculating, obviously. The speculation is that he may have
come up here, specifically for that reason, to get away," parks
spokesman Kevin Bacher said.
"The speculation is he threw some stuff in the car and headed up here
to hide out," Bacher said.
Bacher wouldn't guess whether Barnes survived the night in snowy, cold
conditions as officers tried to track him down using planes, dogs,
trackers in snowshoes and an aircraft with heat-sensing capabilities
to hunt from the skies.
But Bacher said with the proper gear and training it was possible.
"It can be very deadly if you're unprepared," he said. "Somebody who
knows what they're doing out there could certainly survive the night.
If he had those skills and had some of that gear, he could be very
comfortable.
"I don't think any of us would be sorry if he was not in a condition
to fire on our searchers this morning," he said.
Authorities evacuated about 125 people overnight from the visitors
center at the park. Safety concerns prompted authorities to keep the
tourists at the center as the manhunt unfolded.
Early Monday morning, officers escorted them out of the park in groups
of vehicles over several hours.
Bacher said there were still three groups camping in the backcountry
of Rainier that may not know what is occurring elsewhere in the park.
Teams are going out to locate those people and to bring them down from
the mountain.
Bacher said he was particularly concerned about a group camping at
Reflection Lake because it is in the vicinity of where the gunman may
travel.
Crews had initially planned to keep everyone at the visitors center in
a basement with guards. But it was determined to be "better to do it
(evacuate) under the cover of darkness than daylight," Troyer said.
Evacuee Dinh Jackson, a mother from Olympia who came to the mountain
to sled with family and friends, said officials ordered people to
hurry into the lodge after the shooting.
Jackson said officials had everyone get on their knees and place hands
behind their heads as they went through the building, looking at faces
to make sure the gunman was not among them.
"That was scary for the kids," she said.
Michael Wall, an elementary school teacher from Puyallup, spent the
morning hiking with his son. They didn't find out about the violence
until returning.
Wall said he was impressed by how staff members and visitors kept each
other comfortable with food and conversation.
"It was calm, cool, easygoing," Wall said. "I didn't notice any
tenseness or terseness."
A parks spokesman said Barnes was an Iraq war veteran, and the mother
of his child had alleged he suffered from post-traumatic stress
following his deployments.
Barnes was involved in a custody dispute in Tacoma in July, during
which the toddler's mother sought a temporary restraining order
against him, according to court documents.
In an affidavit, the woman wrote that Barnes was suicidal and possibly
suffered from PTSD after deploying to Iraq from 2007 to 2008. She said
he gets easily irritated, angry and depressed and keeps an arsenal of
weapons in his home.
Barnes was also a suspect in the early Sunday morning shooting of four
people at a house party south of Seattle, police said.
Sgt. Cindi West, King County Sheriff's spokeswoman, said late Sunday
that Barnes was connected to an early-morning shooting at a New Year's
house party in Skyway, south of Seattle that left four people injured,
two critically.
That shooting happened about 3 a.m. and stemmed from an argument over
a gun.
West said three people fled the scene. Two were located, and West said
authorities were trying to find Barnes and had been in contact with
his family, trying to have them convince him to "come to the police
and tell his side of the story" in the Skyway shooting.
At Mount Rainier around 10:20 a.m. Sunday, the gunman had sped past a
checkpoint to make sure vehicles have tire chains, which are sometimes
necessary in snowy conditions, Bacher said.
One ranger began following him while Anderson, a 34-year-old mother of
two young children who was married to another Mount Rainier park
ranger, eventually blocked the road to stop the driver.
Before fleeing, the gunman fired shots at both Anderson and the ranger
that trailed him, but only Anderson was hit, Bacher said. Anderson
would have been armed, as she was one of the rangers tasked with law
enforcement, Bacher said. Troyer said she was shot before she had even
exited the vehicle.
About 150 officers, including officials from the Washington State
Patrol, U.S. Forest Service and FBI, were on the mountain Sunday.
Tactical responders wearing crampons and snowshoes pursued what
appeared to be the gunman's tracks in the snow, Troyer said. Those
tracks went into creeks and other waterways, making it more difficult
for crews to follow.
"He's intentionally trying to get out of the snow," Troyer said.
Authorities recovered his vehicle, which had weapons and body armor
inside, Troyer said.
The park would remain closed Monday, officials announced late Sunday.
Park superintendent Randy King said Anderson had served as a park
ranger for about four years. King said Anderson's husband also was
working as a ranger elsewhere in the park at the time of the shooting.
"It's just a huge tragedy -- for the family, the park and the park
service," he said.
Adam Norton, a neighbor of Anderson's in the small town of Eatonville,
said the ranger's family moved in about a year ago. He said they were
not around much, but when they were, Norton would see Anderson outside
with her girls.
"They just seemed like the perfect family," he said.
The town of about 3,000 residents, which is a logging community
overlooking Mount Rainier, is very close knit, he said.
"It's really sad right now," Norton said. "We take care of each
other."
It has been legal for people to take loaded firearms into Mount
Rainier since 2010, when a federal law went into effect that made
possession of firearms in national parks subject to state gun laws.
Bill Wade, the outgoing chair of the Coalition of National Park
Service Retirees, said Congress should be regretting its decision to
allow loaded weapons in national parks. He called Sunday's fatal
shooting a tragedy that could have been prevented. He hopes Congress
will reconsider the law that took effect in early 2010, but doubts
that will happen in today's political climate.
The shooting occurred on an unseasonably sunny and mild day. The park,
which offers miles of wooded trails and spectacular vistas from which
to see 14,410-foot Mount Rainier, draws between 1.5 million and 2
million visitors each year.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/02/police-hunt-gunman-after-mount-rainier-national-park-ranger-shot-and-killed/
Now; the above story just _cannot_ be true:
"Nope..nothing from that network [FOXNews] is reliable."
--Andy "mrLookout" Hull, Fri, Dec 30 2011 2:54 pm
<ThenDestroyEveryth...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 1/2/2012 2:21 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>
>> "JohnJohnsn" <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>
> On 1/2/2012 2:21 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>
>> news:339c1abd-e390-4f66...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>
>>> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>
>>> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
>>> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
>
>> It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
>> Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named Benjamin
>> Barnes.
>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his
>> excuse... if he's taken alive.
>
> If he's smart he will claim Allah made him do it, so he can be released
> with the other terrorists in GITMO.
He won't be making any claims:
>>
>>> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>
>>> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>
>>> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
>>> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
>
>> It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
>> Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named Benjamin
>> Barnes.
>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his
>> excuse... if he's taken alive.
>
> If he's smart he will claim Allah made him do it, so he can be released
> with the other terrorists in GITMO.
FOX News
Crime & Courts - US
Police Believe Body Found is Gunman Sought in Mount Rainier National
Park Ranger Shooting
Published January 02, 2012 | Associated Press
MOUNT RAINIER NATIONAL PARK, Washington – Authorities say the body of
an Iraq war veteran suspected in the slaying of a Mount Rainier
National Park ranger was believed to have been found dead in the park
Monday.
He apparently died after trudging into chest-deep snow while trying to
elude snow-shoe wearing SWAT team members and other police who were on
his trail.
Twenty-four-year-old Benjamin Colton Barnes reportedly fled to the
remote park following an earlier shooting that wounded four near
Seattle. Washington State Patrol spokesman Guy Gill says a body
believed to be Barnes was found face down in the snow. The identity of
the body has not been confirmed.
Related Stories
Massachusetts Trooper Accidentally Shoots Woman While Hunting
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/01/massachusetts-trooper-accidentally-shoots-woman-while-hunting/?intcmp=related
The Iraq War veteran being sought in the slaying of a Mount Rainier
National park ranger may have headed to the remote wilderness area to
"hide out" after an earlier shooting near Seattle, authorities said
Monday.
About 200 law enforcement officers were involved in the search for
Barnes, a named a "person of interest" in the Sunday morning killing
of Margaret Anderson.
Police have said a gunman fled into the woods after shooting Anderson.
Barnes, who is believed to have survivalist skills, is also a suspect
in a 3 a.m. shooting at a house party in Skyway, Wash., that left four
people wounded.
"We're speculating, obviously. The speculation is that he may have
come up here, specifically for that reason, to get away," parks
spokesman Kevin Bacher said.
"The speculation is he threw some stuff in the car and headed up here
to hide out," Bacher said.
Bacher wouldn't guess whether Barnes survived the night in snowy, cold
conditions as officers tried to track him down using planes, dogs,
trackers in snowshoes and an aircraft with heat-sensing capabilities
to hunt from the skies.
But Bacher said with the proper gear and training it was possible.
"It can be very deadly if you're unprepared," he said. "Somebody who
knows what they're doing out there could certainly survive the night.
If he had those skills and had some of that gear, he could be very
comfortable.
"I don't think any of us would be sorry if he was not in a condition
to fire on our searchers this morning," he said.
Authorities evacuated about 125 people overnight from the visitors
center at the park. Safety concerns prompted authorities to keep the
tourists at the center as the manhunt unfolded.
Early Monday morning, officers escorted them out of the park in groups
of vehicles over several hours.
Bacher said there were still three groups camping in the backcountry
of Rainier that may not know what is occurring elsewhere in the park.
Teams are going out to locate those people and to bring them down from
the mountain.
Bacher said he was particularly concerned about a group camping at
Reflection Lake because it is in the vicinity of where the gunman may
travel.
Crews had initially planned to keep everyone at the visitors center in
a basement with guards. But it was determined to be "better to do it
(evacuate) under the cover of darkness than daylight," Troyer said.
Evacuee Dinh Jackson, a mother from Olympia who came to the mountain
to sled with family and friends, said officials ordered people to
hurry into the lodge after the shooting.
Jackson said officials had everyone get on their knees and place hands
behind their heads as they went through the building, looking at faces
to make sure the gunman was not among them.
"That was scary for the kids," she said.
Michael Wall, an elementary school teacher from Puyallup, spent the
morning hiking with his son. They didn't find out about the violence
until returning.
Wall said he was impressed by how staff members and visitors kept each
other comfortable with food and conversation.
"It was calm, cool, easygoing," Wall said. "I didn't notice any
tenseness or terseness."
A parks spokesman said Barnes was an Iraq war veteran, and the mother
of his child had alleged he suffered from post-traumatic stress
following his deployments.
Barnes was involved in a custody dispute in Tacoma in July, during
which the toddler's mother sought a temporary restraining order
against him, according to court documents.
In an affidavit, the woman wrote that Barnes was suicidal and possibly
suffered from PTSD after deploying to Iraq from 2007 to 2008. She said
he gets easily irritated, angry and depressed and keeps an arsenal of
weapons in his home.
Barnes was also a suspect in the early Sunday morning shooting of four
people at a house party south of Seattle, police said.
Sgt. Cindi West, King County Sheriff's spokeswoman, said late Sunday
that Barnes was connected to an early-morning shooting at a New Year's
house party in Skyway, south of Seattle that left four people injured,
two critically.
That shooting happened about 3 a.m. and stemmed from an argument over
a gun.
West said three people fled the scene. Two were located, and West said
authorities were trying to find Barnes and had been in contact with
his family, trying to have them convince him to "come to the police
and tell his side of the story" in the Skyway shooting.
At Mount Rainier around 10:20 a.m. Sunday, the gunman had sped past a
checkpoint to make sure vehicles have tire chains, which are sometimes
necessary in snowy conditions, Bacher said.
One ranger began following him while Anderson, a 34-year-old mother of
two young children who was married to another Mount Rainier park
ranger, eventually blocked the road to stop the driver.
Before fleeing, the gunman fired shots at both Anderson and the ranger
that trailed him, but only Anderson was hit, Bacher said. Anderson
would have been armed, as she was one of the rangers tasked with law
enforcement, Bacher said. Troyer said she was shot before she had even
exited the vehicle.
About 150 officers, including officials from the Washington State
Patrol, U.S. Forest Service and FBI, were on the mountain Sunday.
Tactical responders wearing crampons and snowshoes pursued what
appeared to be the gunman's tracks in the snow, Troyer said. Those
tracks went into creeks and other waterways, making it more difficult
for crews to follow.
"He's intentionally trying to get out of the snow," Troyer said.
Authorities recovered his vehicle, which had weapons and body armor
inside, Troyer said.
The park would remain closed Monday, officials announced late Sunday.
Park superintendent Randy King said Anderson had served as a park
ranger for about four years. King said Anderson's husband also was
working as a ranger elsewhere in the park at the time of the shooting.
"It's just a huge tragedy -- for the family, the park and the park
service," he said.
Adam Norton, a neighbor of Anderson's in the small town of Eatonville,
said the ranger's family moved in about a year ago. He said they were
not around much, but when they were, Norton would see Anderson outside
with her girls.
"They just seemed like the perfect family," he said.
The town of about 3,000 residents, which is a logging community
overlooking Mount Rainier, is very close knit, he said.
"It's really sad right now," Norton said. "We take care of each
other."
It has been legal for people to take loaded firearms into Mount
Rainier since 2010, when a federal law went into effect that made
possession of firearms in national parks subject to state gun laws.
Bill Wade, the outgoing chair of the Coalition of National Park
Service Retirees, said Congress should be regretting its decision to
allow loaded weapons in national parks. He called Sunday's fatal
shooting a tragedy that could have been prevented. He hopes Congress
will reconsider the law that took effect in early 2010, but doubts
that will happen in today's political climate.
The shooting occurred on an unseasonably sunny and mild day. The park,
which offers miles of wooded trails and spectacular vistas from which
to see 14,410-foot Mount Rainier, draws between 1.5 million and 2
million visitors each year.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/02/police-hunt-gunman-after-mount-rainier-national-park-ranger-shot-and-killed/
Now; the above story just _cannot_ be true:
"Nope..nothing from that network [FOXNews] is reliable."
--Andy "mrLookout" Hull, Fri, Dec 30 2011 2:54 pm
BeamMeUpScotty
Jan 2, 2012, 3:29:06 PM1/2/12
to
On 1/2/2012 3:05 PM, RD Sandman wrote:
> "Sanders Kaufman" <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote in
> news:6tnMq.3171$Ik5....@newsfe03.iad:
>
>> "JohnJohnsn" <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:339c1abd-e390-4f66...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com..
>> .
>>> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>>>
>>> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>>>
>>> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
>>> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
>>
>> It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
>> Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named
>> Benjamin Barnes.
>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his
>> excuse... if he's taken alive.
>>
>>
>
> He has, apparently, been found dead.
Liberals and Feds are just mad because they can't bring him up on
> "Sanders Kaufman" <bu...@kaufman.net> wrote in
> news:6tnMq.3171$Ik5....@newsfe03.iad:
>
>> "JohnJohnsn" <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:339c1abd-e390-4f66...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com..
>> .
>>> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>>>
>>> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>>>
>>> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
>>> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
>>
>> It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
>> Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named
>> Benjamin Barnes.
>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his
>> excuse... if he's taken alive.
>>
>>
>
> He has, apparently, been found dead.
charges of carrying a gun illegally.
It would have only been a murder charge and a hate crime against a
minority and littering on Federal property.
BeamMeUpScotty
Jan 2, 2012, 3:49:18 PM1/2/12
to
zero to do with all these deaths.
Typical Liberal hysterics, all excited over a law that is irrelevant.
BeamMeUpScotty
Jan 2, 2012, 3:57:45 PM1/2/12
to
You didn't say that the explosives were armed and ready or that a gun
was involved. Try again.
Liberals supported sending guns to Mexico and importing illegal
terrorists/aliens across the Mexican Border and they can carry bombs and
the TSA doesn't even care.
If the government/TSA are going to do a half assed JOB they might as
well NOT exist at all.
Steve Rothstein
Jan 2, 2012, 4:41:31 PM1/2/12
to
On 1/2/2012 12:20 PM, Wayne wrote:
>
>
> "JohnJohnsn" wrote in message
> news:89d16929-261b-473d...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>
>
> "JohnJohnsn" wrote in message
> news:89d16929-261b-473d...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>
>> Any federally-owned property such as the post office (including the
>> parking lot) is off-limits. Certain state parks in Texas are Army
>> Corps of Engineers projects and therefore Federal land, and off-
>> limits. You are not violating any state laws here, but Federal law
>> applies. Do your homework and know before you get there.
>
> ********************
> -
> My understanding, with the recent law changes, is that state laws apply
> on federal land, but federal buildings are off-limits.
> Thus, I can carry concealed (with a permit) on federal lands such as
> national parks, but not in buildings such as ranger stations. Lately,
> nearly all park buildings carry a "no weapons" sign.
I believe that it depends on the type of federal land. For example,
>> parking lot) is off-limits. Certain state parks in Texas are Army
>> Corps of Engineers projects and therefore Federal land, and off-
>> limits. You are not violating any state laws here, but Federal law
>> applies. Do your homework and know before you get there.
>
> ********************
> -
> My understanding, with the recent law changes, is that state laws apply
> on federal land, but federal buildings are off-limits.
> Thus, I can carry concealed (with a permit) on federal lands such as
> national parks, but not in buildings such as ranger stations. Lately,
> nearly all park buildings carry a "no weapons" sign.
anything owned by the Army Corps of Engineers is still off limits. This
includes a lot of state and local parks that were built on land owned by
the COE for flood control projects. The Post Office still claims that
even its parking lots are off-limits, but there is a court case on this
going through the system now.
I believe national parks and forests are legal for weapons on the land
but not in the buildings, as you stated. I don't know if national
monuments or other types of civilian federal land covered by the Dept.
of the Interior are included either way.
And of course, the military still bans guns on most of its lands, even
for soldiers. That is complicated but for now assume that if you do not
have a military ID, you can not take a firearm onto a military base legally.
Steve Rothstein
eloisekoch
Jan 2, 2012, 4:55:06 PM1/2/12
to
bought from a Mexican who bought it from Attorney General Eric Holder's
gun running operation. There are lots of guns that Holder had
distributed to criminals in the US and Mexico. The only requirement is
that they be criminals and able to pay wholesale prices for the guns.
eloisekoch
Jan 2, 2012, 4:52:47 PM1/2/12
to
guns tried to stay home, but the SUV brought them to the park We need to
ban SUVs. Including that little piece of shit you have.
Maybe the killer is frustrated because he is a homosexual like you and
has AIDS too.
eloisekoch
Jan 2, 2012, 5:00:18 PM1/2/12
to
On 1/2/2012 1:18 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
> "BeamMeUpScotty" <ThenDestro...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote in
> message news:4F021033...@blackhole.nebulax.com...
>> On 1/2/2012 2:21 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>
>>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his
>>> excuse... if he's taken alive.
>>
>> If he's smart he will claim Allah made him do it, so he can be released
>> with the other terrorists in GITMO.
>
> Apparently, true to his right-wing heritage, he took the coward's way out.
> Not surprising for someone who used an assault rifle to shoot kids,
> party-goers, campers and cops.
Especially when they deal in drugs and received the gun from Attorney
> "BeamMeUpScotty" <ThenDestro...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote in
> message news:4F021033...@blackhole.nebulax.com...
>> On 1/2/2012 2:21 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>
>>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda as his
>>> excuse... if he's taken alive.
>>
>> If he's smart he will claim Allah made him do it, so he can be released
>> with the other terrorists in GITMO.
>
> Apparently, true to his right-wing heritage, he took the coward's way out.
> Not surprising for someone who used an assault rifle to shoot kids,
> party-goers, campers and cops.
General Eric Holder with Obama's approval and blessing.
>
> In the mean time, another right-wing gun-nut got busted tryng to board a
> plane with a suitcase full of explosives.
That was an obvious TSA setup because TSA has never caught a terrorist
> In the mean time, another right-wing gun-nut got busted tryng to board a
> plane with a suitcase full of explosives.
yet, and they wanted to make it look as if White military veterans are
terrorists, as Napolitano accused them of being.
Just another stupid move by Erick Holder and Janet Napolitano to make it
appear that they are on the job, and to distract from Attorney General
Holder's criminal, international gun running operation, and the
resulting mass deaths in Mexico.
> Had the Republicans got their way a few months ago, TSA would already be
> gone and he woud have gotten away with it.
up for a White military veteran. She's simply convincing the asshole
liberals how good she is at fulfilling her wet dream of last year.
The Daring Dufas
Jan 2, 2012, 7:28:11 PM1/2/12
to
that's the reason he's so vociferous about keeping me and thee from
having a gun? If he can't have one, he doesn't want anyone else to own
a gun. ^_^
TDD
Martin Eastburn
Jan 2, 2012, 9:46:25 PM1/2/12
to
The caution - most ranger stations, offices of game warden etc are all
attached to Home defense. Like the Coast Guard that was taken from
the Navy - it is now Home Defense.
They got new trucks and look like the are. The gun range set up for
county officers - is extremely beefed up. They got the money now.
Martin
On 1/2/2012 12:20 PM, Wayne wrote:
>
>
>> •the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
>> •the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
attached to Home defense. Like the Coast Guard that was taken from
the Navy - it is now Home Defense.
They got new trucks and look like the are. The gun range set up for
county officers - is extremely beefed up. They got the money now.
Martin
On 1/2/2012 12:20 PM, Wayne wrote:
>
>
> "JohnJohnsn" wrote in message
> news:89d16929-261b-473d...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Texas Motorist Protection Act
>
>> In 2009 the Texas legislature passed HB 1815, also known as The
>> Motorist Protection Act (MPA). The bill affects the Penal Code,
>> allowing citizens to carry a handgun "inside of or directly en route
>> to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's
>> control", providing:
>>
>> •the handgun remains concealed
> news:89d16929-261b-473d...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
> Texas Motorist Protection Act
>
>> In 2009 the Texas legislature passed HB 1815, also known as The
>> Motorist Protection Act (MPA). The bill affects the Penal Code,
>> allowing citizens to carry a handgun "inside of or directly en route
>> to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's
>> control", providing:
>>
>> •the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
>> misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating
>> traffic
>> •the person is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm
>> traffic
>> •the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
JohnJohnsn
Jan 2, 2012, 11:24:12 PM1/2/12
to
On Jan 2, 6:28 pm, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky.net>
wrote:
charges are filed against him, we have no idea what his alleged crimes
are: misdemeanor or felony.
Nevertheless, since he is, in fact, a Fugitive From Justice, he is
most certainly a "Prohibited Person" under the Gun Control Act of 1968
(as amended).
Additionslly, what Bucky's postings demonstrate is known as
"projection bias":
Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense
mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own
attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the
outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves
imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those
feelings.
Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted
unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind
recognize them.
An example of this behavior might be blaming another for self failure.
The mind may avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal
faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, and by redirecting
libidinal satisfaction by attaching, or "projecting," those same
faults onto another person or object.
The theory was developed by Sigmund Freud - in his letters to Wilhelm
Fliess, '"Draft H" deals with projection as a mechanism of defence' -
and further refined by his daughter Anna Freud; for this reason, it is
sometimes referred to as Freudian Projection.
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
IOW; whatever Bucky claims about what gun owners (and Conservatives)
are the exact same things _he_ would likely do; given the chance.
And in case you never saw the ad he published locally:
I have one bedroom of a 3BR house to rent out to a roommate.
Features:
DSL
Shared Kitchen Privileges
$100 per week ($400 Refundable Security Deposit)
Paid Utilities - Water, Electric, Gas, Local Phone
Large Backyard
Curbside Parking
One Room is Furnished
No dogs or Republicans
Sanders Kaufman
11449 Lippitt Ave.
Dallas, TX 75218-2023
+1 (214) 321-2395
"No dogs or Republicans..."
wrote:
>
>
> On 1/2/2012 2:07 PM, JohnJohnsn wrote:
>
>>>> On Jan 2, 1:21 pm, "Sanders Kaufman"<bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
>
>>>>> "JohnJohnsn"<TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:339c1abd-e390-4f66...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>>>> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>
>>>>>> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>
>>>>>> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
>>>>>> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
>
>>>>> It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
>
>>>> So you were incorrect when you stated "a couple of days ago"
>>>> (which would be 31 December 2011); right, Bucky?
>
>>>>> Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named
>>>>> Benjamin Barnes.
>
>>>> What evidence do you offer that he's "right-wing" or even a "gun-nut,"
>>>> Buicky?
>
>>>> After all, there are a lot of you Looney Liberal Socialist Democrat
>>>> gun control advocates who are also gun owner hypocrites.
>
>>>>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda
>>>>> as his excuse...if he's taken alive.
>
> On 1/2/2012 2:07 PM, JohnJohnsn wrote:
>
>>>> On Jan 2, 1:21 pm, "Sanders Kaufman"<bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
>
>>>>> "JohnJohnsn"<TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:339c1abd-e390-4f66...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>>>> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>
>>>>>> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>
>>>>>> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
>>>>>> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
>
>>>>> It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
>
>>>> So you were incorrect when you stated "a couple of days ago"
>>>> (which would be 31 December 2011); right, Bucky?
>
>>>>> Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named
>>>>> Benjamin Barnes.
>
>>>> What evidence do you offer that he's "right-wing" or even a "gun-nut,"
>>>> Buicky?
>
>>>> After all, there are a lot of you Looney Liberal Socialist Democrat
>>>> gun control advocates who are also gun owner hypocrites.
>
>>>>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda
>
>>>> Prognostication from a Wanted Trxas Criminal Fugitive Sanders NMI
>>>> Kaufman, W/M, DOB 08/03/1965, a/k/a "Bucky the Looney Liberal"
>>>> Kaufman.
>
> Hey, if Sandrew is a felon, he can't legally possess a firearm.
> Perhaps that's the reason he's so vociferous about keeping me
> and thee from having a gun? If he can't have one, he doesn't
> want anyone else to own a gun. ^_^
>
Actually, since Bucky hasn't yet been arrested and tried on whatever
>>>> Prognostication from a Wanted Trxas Criminal Fugitive Sanders NMI
>>>> Kaufman, W/M, DOB 08/03/1965, a/k/a "Bucky the Looney Liberal"
>>>> Kaufman.
>
> Hey, if Sandrew is a felon, he can't legally possess a firearm.
> Perhaps that's the reason he's so vociferous about keeping me
> and thee from having a gun? If he can't have one, he doesn't
> want anyone else to own a gun. ^_^
>
charges are filed against him, we have no idea what his alleged crimes
are: misdemeanor or felony.
Nevertheless, since he is, in fact, a Fugitive From Justice, he is
most certainly a "Prohibited Person" under the Gun Control Act of 1968
(as amended).
Additionslly, what Bucky's postings demonstrate is known as
"projection bias":
Psychological projection or projection bias is a psychological defense
mechanism where a person subconsciously denies his or her own
attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the
outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves
imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those
feelings.
Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted
unconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind
recognize them.
An example of this behavior might be blaming another for self failure.
The mind may avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal
faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, and by redirecting
libidinal satisfaction by attaching, or "projecting," those same
faults onto another person or object.
The theory was developed by Sigmund Freud - in his letters to Wilhelm
Fliess, '"Draft H" deals with projection as a mechanism of defence' -
and further refined by his daughter Anna Freud; for this reason, it is
sometimes referred to as Freudian Projection.
...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
IOW; whatever Bucky claims about what gun owners (and Conservatives)
are the exact same things _he_ would likely do; given the chance.
And in case you never saw the ad he published locally:
I have one bedroom of a 3BR house to rent out to a roommate.
Features:
DSL
Shared Kitchen Privileges
$100 per week ($400 Refundable Security Deposit)
Paid Utilities - Water, Electric, Gas, Local Phone
Large Backyard
Curbside Parking
One Room is Furnished
No dogs or Republicans
Sanders Kaufman
11449 Lippitt Ave.
Dallas, TX 75218-2023
+1 (214) 321-2395
"No dogs or Republicans..."
JohnJohnsn
Jan 2, 2012, 11:33:43 PM1/2/12
to
On Jan 2, 3:41 pm, Steve Rothstein <stephan_rothst...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Military personnel who live on base are required to keep their
personally-owned firearms in their respective armories: checking them
out when leaving; then checking them back in when returning.
> That is complicated but for now assume that if you do not have
> a military ID, you can not take a firearm onto a military base legally.
Unless you are LEO (municipal, county, state or federal); at least
that's the way it was at my last posting: our base commander had a
standing order that LEOs could remain armed while on base in an
official capacity.
>
> Steve Rothstein
wrote:
personally-owned firearms in their respective armories: checking them
out when leaving; then checking them back in when returning.
> That is complicated but for now assume that if you do not have
> a military ID, you can not take a firearm onto a military base legally.
that's the way it was at my last posting: our base commander had a
standing order that LEOs could remain armed while on base in an
official capacity.
>
> Steve Rothstein
The Daring Dufas
Jan 3, 2012, 2:00:37 AM1/3/12
to
Is that for running around naked and he's afraid a
Republican would chastise him for being immodest or a dog might
try to hump him? I knew Sandy had mental problems but I thought
it was just dementia praecox but he seems to have evolved into
a full blown psychotic. o_O
TDD
Sanders Kaufman
Jan 3, 2012, 9:20:38 AM1/3/12
to
"BeamMeUpScotty" <ThenDestro...@blackhole.nebulax.com> wrote in
message news:4F021A49...@blackhole.nebulax.com...
was stopped by the people we hired to stop him.
Not only that, but this arrest stands as a warning to creeps like you -
keeping you from trying the same thing.
message news:4F021A49...@blackhole.nebulax.com...
> On 1/2/2012 3:18 PM, Sanders Kaufman wrote:
>> In the mean time, another right-wing gun-nut got busted tryng to board a
>> plane with a suitcase full of explosives.
>> Had the Republicans got their way a few months ago, TSA would already be
>> gone and he woud have gotten away with it.
>
> People get all kinds of contraband past the TSA.....
> You didn't say that the explosives were armed and ready or that a gun
> was involved. Try again.
None of that matters - what matters is that your fellow right-wing psycho
>> In the mean time, another right-wing gun-nut got busted tryng to board a
>> plane with a suitcase full of explosives.
>> Had the Republicans got their way a few months ago, TSA would already be
>> gone and he woud have gotten away with it.
>
> People get all kinds of contraband past the TSA.....
> You didn't say that the explosives were armed and ready or that a gun
> was involved. Try again.
was stopped by the people we hired to stop him.
Not only that, but this arrest stands as a warning to creeps like you -
keeping you from trying the same thing.
JohnJohnsn
Jan 3, 2012, 12:03:35 PM1/3/12
to
On Jan 3, 1:00 am, The Daring Dufas <the-daring-du...@stinky.net>
Buck has been "Over the (H)edge" for quite some time now. [pun
intended <g>;)]
Locally, we are wondering if the two Warrants of Arrest the Garland
Police Department have with Bucky's name on them are for doing
something "immodest" with one (or more) of the kids he "teaches" as a
part-time substitute teacher here in the DFW area. (????)
"The US can never win against terrorism until we eliminate the
NeoChristian insurgents."
--Sanders "Bucky" Kaufman: Writer, Web Developer, Guitarist, Casa View
TX Village Idiot
http://www.myspace.com/bvckvs
wrote:
>
>
> On 1/2/2012 10:24 PM, JohnJohnsn wrote:
>
>> On Jan 2, 6:28 pm, The Daring Dufas<the-daring-du...@stinky.net>
>> wrote:
>
>>> On 1/2/2012 2:07 PM, JohnJohnsn wrote:
>
>>>>>> On Jan 2, 1:21 pm, "Sanders Kaufman"<bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
>
>>>>>>> "JohnJohnsn"<TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>
> On 1/2/2012 10:24 PM, JohnJohnsn wrote:
>
>> On Jan 2, 6:28 pm, The Daring Dufas<the-daring-du...@stinky.net>
>> wrote:
>
>>> On 1/2/2012 2:07 PM, JohnJohnsn wrote:
>
>>>>>> On Jan 2, 1:21 pm, "Sanders Kaufman"<bu...@kaufman.net> wrote:
>
>>>>>>>news:339c1abd-e390-4f66...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>
>>>>>>>> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>
>>>>>>>> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
>>>>>>>> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
>
>>>>>>> It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
>
>
>>>>>>>> On Jan 2, 12:36 pm, BeamMeUpScotty
>
>>>>>>>> Point to that Park Ranger's "murder" here, Bucky:
>
>>>>>>>> Officer Dowm Memorial Page
>>>>>>>> Honoring Officers Killed in 2011
>
>>>>>>> It just happened yesterday - it's not on the history pages yet.
>
>>>>>> So you were incorrect when you stated "a couple of days ago"
>>>>>> (which would be 31 December 2011); right, Bucky?
>
>>>>>> (which would be 31 December 2011); right, Bucky?
>
>>>>>>> Now they've identified the shooter - a right-wing gun-nut named
>>>>>>> Benjamin Barnes.
>
>>>>>>> Benjamin Barnes.
>
>>>>>> What evidence do you offer that he's "right-wing" or even a
>>>>>> "gun-nut," Buicky?
>
>>>>>> After all, there are a lot of you Looney Liberal Socialist Democrat
>>>>>> gun control advocates who are also gun owner hypocrites.
>
>>>>>> "gun-nut," Buicky?
>
>>>>>> After all, there are a lot of you Looney Liberal Socialist Democrat
>>>>>> gun control advocates who are also gun owner hypocrites.
>
>>>>>>> And undoubtedly, he'll be referencing right-wing propaganda
intended <g>;)]
Locally, we are wondering if the two Warrants of Arrest the Garland
Police Department have with Bucky's name on them are for doing
something "immodest" with one (or more) of the kids he "teaches" as a
part-time substitute teacher here in the DFW area. (????)
"The US can never win against terrorism until we eliminate the
NeoChristian insurgents."
--Sanders "Bucky" Kaufman: Writer, Web Developer, Guitarist, Casa View
TX Village Idiot
http://www.myspace.com/bvckvs
G. Morgan
Jan 3, 2012, 3:13:10 PM1/3/12
to
JohnJohnsn wrote:
> providing:
>
>•the handgun remains concealed
>•the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
>misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating
>traffic
>•the person is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm
>•the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
also --
> providing:
>
>•the handgun remains concealed
>•the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
>misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating
>traffic
>•the person is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm
>•the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
I thought the "traveling salesman" rule was still in effect. That is,
if your work often involves crossing county lines, you are allowed to
carry in the vehicle.
Gray Guest
Jan 3, 2012, 9:00:14 PM1/3/12
to
JohnJohnsn <TopCo...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:89d16929-261b-473d-bf76-
06f330...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
> Texas Motorist Protection Act
>
> In 2009 the Texas legislature passed HB 1815, also known as The
> Motorist Protection Act (MPA). The bill affects the Penal Code,
> allowing citizens to carry a handgun "inside of or directly en route
> to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's
> control", providing:
> your car unless you were traveling or directly en route to a location
> for hunting or a shooting sports event. The definition of "traveling"
> was never clearly spelled out and was determined by case law. All this
> means that a citizen that meets the above four exemptions and is not
> licensed to carry a concealed handgun can keep a loaded handgun in
> their vehicle, but there are a few things that you should consider.
>
> Lock it up!
>
> First, secure your gun when leaving your vehicle. You can't take it
> with you unless licensed to carry, and the glove box or console isn't
> enough to keep it from being stolen should your car be broken into.
> Install a small safe or lock box that bolts to the floor or locks with
> a chain or cable to the seat or body of the vehicle somehow. Make it
> as difficult to walk away with as you possibly can. Don't put guns
> into the hands of criminals.
>
> Keep it out of sight!
>
> When driving you can keep it at the ready, but be smart about it.
> Don't put it in the glove box on top of your insurance card, in case
> you are stopped by the police for a traffic violation. The officer
> probably won't have much of a sense of humor about an incident like
> that. Don't take it to the full service car wash, where an attendant
> may find it while detailing the interior of your car. It shouldn't be
> seen by anyone, anywhere. If someone sees it you may be reported to
> the police, or worse.
>
> Federal property!
>
> If your employer has a "no weapons" policy prohibiting you from having
> a weapon in your car while in the parking lot you could be fired if
> you get caught, but it may even be enforceable by state or federal law
> depending on where you work. Again, do your own research and know for
> sure what you're doing.
>
> [ This issue was addressed by the Texas Legislature in 2011 by
> [ SB321, Parking Lot Protection for armed citizens
> [ http://www.gunlaws.com/tgogup6-2011.htm
>
> Police interaction!
>
> Just remember, that as long as you meet the four exemptions listed
> above you aren't doing anything wrong. Don't be nervous. Be polite,
> and follow the officer's instructions. You are not required to notify
> the officer that you have a weapon in your vehicle, unless you are
> licensed to carry it. Don't blurt out "I have a gun in the car!" Just
> behave yourself.
>
> I strongly urge anyone who can legally and responsibly carry a handgun
> for their own protection apply for a Concealed Handgun License and do
> so. But until you take that step, the MPA allows you to protect
> yourself in your vehicle as if you were in your own home. Be smart and
> cautious, and be safe.
>
> -30-
>
> http://safety-on.com/index.php/carrying-a-handgun-in-your-car.html
>
>
Bad news for car jackers. I'll bet the liberals are outraged.
--
Words of wisdom
What does not kill you... probably didn't cause enough tissue damage.
06f330...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
> Texas Motorist Protection Act
>
> In 2009 the Texas legislature passed HB 1815, also known as The
> Motorist Protection Act (MPA). The bill affects the Penal Code,
> allowing citizens to carry a handgun "inside of or directly en route
> to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's
>
> •the handgun remains concealed
> •the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
> misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating
> traffic
> •the person is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm
> •the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
>
> Prior to the passage of this bill it was illegal to have a handgun in
> •the handgun remains concealed
> •the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
> misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating
> traffic
> •the person is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm
> •the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
>
> your car unless you were traveling or directly en route to a location
> for hunting or a shooting sports event. The definition of "traveling"
> was never clearly spelled out and was determined by case law. All this
> means that a citizen that meets the above four exemptions and is not
> licensed to carry a concealed handgun can keep a loaded handgun in
> their vehicle, but there are a few things that you should consider.
>
> Lock it up!
>
> First, secure your gun when leaving your vehicle. You can't take it
> with you unless licensed to carry, and the glove box or console isn't
> enough to keep it from being stolen should your car be broken into.
> Install a small safe or lock box that bolts to the floor or locks with
> a chain or cable to the seat or body of the vehicle somehow. Make it
> as difficult to walk away with as you possibly can. Don't put guns
> into the hands of criminals.
>
> Keep it out of sight!
>
> When driving you can keep it at the ready, but be smart about it.
> Don't put it in the glove box on top of your insurance card, in case
> you are stopped by the police for a traffic violation. The officer
> probably won't have much of a sense of humor about an incident like
> that. Don't take it to the full service car wash, where an attendant
> may find it while detailing the interior of your car. It shouldn't be
> seen by anyone, anywhere. If someone sees it you may be reported to
> the police, or worse.
>
> Federal property!
>
> Any federally-owned property such as the post office (including the
> parking lot) is off-limits. Certain state parks in Texas are Army
> Corps of Engineers projects and therefore Federal land, and off-
> limits. You are not violating any state laws here, but Federal law
> applies. Do your homework and know before you get there.
>
> Employer parking lots!
> Any federally-owned property such as the post office (including the
> parking lot) is off-limits. Certain state parks in Texas are Army
> Corps of Engineers projects and therefore Federal land, and off-
> limits. You are not violating any state laws here, but Federal law
> applies. Do your homework and know before you get there.
>
>
> If your employer has a "no weapons" policy prohibiting you from having
> a weapon in your car while in the parking lot you could be fired if
> you get caught, but it may even be enforceable by state or federal law
> depending on where you work. Again, do your own research and know for
> sure what you're doing.
>
> [ This issue was addressed by the Texas Legislature in 2011 by
> [ SB321, Parking Lot Protection for armed citizens
> [ http://www.gunlaws.com/tgogup6-2011.htm
>
> Police interaction!
>
> Just remember, that as long as you meet the four exemptions listed
> above you aren't doing anything wrong. Don't be nervous. Be polite,
> and follow the officer's instructions. You are not required to notify
> the officer that you have a weapon in your vehicle, unless you are
> licensed to carry it. Don't blurt out "I have a gun in the car!" Just
> behave yourself.
>
> I strongly urge anyone who can legally and responsibly carry a handgun
> for their own protection apply for a Concealed Handgun License and do
> so. But until you take that step, the MPA allows you to protect
> yourself in your vehicle as if you were in your own home. Be smart and
> cautious, and be safe.
>
> -30-
>
> http://safety-on.com/index.php/carrying-a-handgun-in-your-car.html
>
>
Bad news for car jackers. I'll bet the liberals are outraged.
--
Words of wisdom
What does not kill you... probably didn't cause enough tissue damage.
JohnJohnsn
Jan 4, 2012, 3:01:08 AM1/4/12
to
On Jan 3, 8:00 pm, Gray Guest <No_email_for_...@wahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> JohnJohnsn <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:89d16929-261b-473d-bf76-06f330193...@o9g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:
>
>
> JohnJohnsn <TopCop1...@yahoo.com> wrote in
owners.
HeyBub
Jan 4, 2012, 8:12:14 AM1/4/12
to
G. Morgan wrote:
> JohnJohnsn wrote:
>
>> providing:
>>
>> .the handgun remains concealed
>> .the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
>> .the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
> JohnJohnsn wrote:
>
>> providing:
>>
>> .the handgun remains concealed
>> .the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
>> misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating
>> traffic
>> .the person is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm
>> traffic
>> .the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
>
> also --
> I thought the "traveling salesman" rule was still in effect. That is,
> if your work often involves crossing county lines, you are allowed to
> carry in the vehicle.
Completely replaced by the above quoted statute.
> also --
> I thought the "traveling salesman" rule was still in effect. That is,
> if your work often involves crossing county lines, you are allowed to
> carry in the vehicle.
RM V2.0
Jan 4, 2012, 9:49:52 AM1/4/12
to
"G. Morgan" <seal...@osama-is-dead.net> wrote in message
news:e6o6g7lvikt202j0c...@Osama-is-dead.net...
> JohnJohnsn wrote:
>
>> providing:
>>
>>.the handgun remains concealed
>>.the person is not engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C
>
>> providing:
>>
>>.the handgun remains concealed
>>misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating
>>traffic
>>.the person is not prohibited by law from possessing a firearm
>>traffic
>>.the person is not a member of a criminal street gang
>
> also --
> I thought the "traveling salesman" rule was still in effect. That is,
> if your work often involves crossing county lines, you are allowed to
> carry in the vehicle.
>
>
Never existed, urban legend. Traveling was -never- defined properly, hence
> also --
> I thought the "traveling salesman" rule was still in effect. That is,
> if your work often involves crossing county lines, you are allowed to
> carry in the vehicle.
>
>
the MPA.
BeamMeUpScotty
Jan 4, 2012, 2:40:29 PM1/4/12
to
detect plastic explosives. Or at least they can't ever really find any
using their stupid agents. So they're forced to fake it and use
propaganda?
HeyBub
Jan 4, 2012, 7:03:09 PM1/4/12
to
another, defined "traveler" as:
a. One who is taking an overnight trip,
b. One who is crossing county lines,
c. One who is "x" miles from home,
and other situations.
It came down to a common-sense observations, but the courts had to come up
with an objective standard. Fortunately, all that nonsense has be
superseded.
Wayne
Jan 4, 2012, 7:49:12 PM1/4/12
to
"HeyBub" wrote in message
news:arCdnfWCouxddZnS...@earthlink.com...
Some years back when I lived in Texas, there was a "cross county lines" rule
which allowed me to pack from my home in one county to work a few miles
away.
During that time, I went for jury duty on a case where a 17 year old kid was
driving his dad's car, was stopped for speeding, and was arrested for the
dad's loaded gun in the glove box. The case was dismissed when it was
impossible to seat a jury. The judge berated the prosecuting attorney for
bringing charges and wasting the court's time.
Steve Rothstein
Jan 4, 2012, 9:22:28 PM1/4/12
to
moot in most cases by the MPA. But, for example, if you are traveling by
bicycle or walking, the MPA will not affect you while you might be able
to use the traveling defense still.
Steve Rothstein
G. Morgan
Jan 5, 2012, 12:32:20 AM1/5/12
to
HeyBub
Jan 5, 2012, 8:15:11 AM1/5/12
to
Wayne wrote:
> -
> Some years back when I lived in Texas, there was a "cross county
> lines" rule which allowed me to pack from my home in one county to
> work a few miles away.
>
> During that time, I went for jury duty on a case where a 17 year old
> kid was driving his dad's car, was stopped for speeding, and was
> arrested for the dad's loaded gun in the glove box. The case was
> dismissed when it was impossible to seat a jury. The judge berated
> the prosecuting attorney for bringing charges and wasting the court's
> time.
The case should have been dismissed as a matter of law. Every offense
> -
> Some years back when I lived in Texas, there was a "cross county
> lines" rule which allowed me to pack from my home in one county to
> work a few miles away.
>
> During that time, I went for jury duty on a case where a 17 year old
> kid was driving his dad's car, was stopped for speeding, and was
> arrested for the dad's loaded gun in the glove box. The case was
> dismissed when it was impossible to seat a jury. The judge berated
> the prosecuting attorney for bringing charges and wasting the court's
> time.
includes, as a necessary element of the offense, that you knew you were
doing that which was against the law (or should have known).
While it is true that "ignorance of the law is no excuse", ignorance of the
FACTS *IS* an excuse.
In the case you mentioned, all the defendant had to do was claim he didn't
know the gun was there. It would then be up to the DA to show that the kid
DID know or SHOULD HAVE KNOWN there was a gun in the car pocket. The defense
rejoinder is the simple question: "How many of you on the jury look in your
car pocket every time you get in your car?"
RM V2.0
Jan 5, 2012, 9:31:28 AM1/5/12
to
"HeyBub" <hey...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote in message
news:arCdnfWCouxddZnS...@earthlink.com...
Legend was the best definition I could come up with.
Steve Rothstein
Jan 5, 2012, 9:31:10 PM1/5/12
to
Appeals issued its definitive ruling then. They said that "traveling"
was something to be determined by the trier of fact. So each jury, or
judge if there is no jury, gets to make its own ruling on what traveling is.
Each of the definitions previously described was used by some court at
some time. None of them set a precedent, even though many made it into
popular culture.
Steve Rothstein
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