Norinco 1911 problems
©mk2-acp@us-mail.net
I've noticed that the Norinco 1911 .45 ACP has a larger chamber than
the usual 1911a1 and Clones.......the chamber/barrel itself seems to be for
some .455 caliber.
If you try a test with a painted snapcap or other, you will notice
that chambering has little effect on the bullet,......that is no barrel
markings compared to the 1911a1 and Clones....
It is my contention that these Norinco 1911 .45 ACP barrels are
simply used barrels, somewhat refurbished, and then chrome plated to cover up
the work if any......
From the general work of the gun, anything is possible concerning the
variants it may have, but the interfacing with other (1911a1 and Clones.) for
parts, is 99.9%, the grip screws are different.....the Slide Stop is a bit
shorter which adds to a Mag follower connection in the (stay open) last shot
consideration......but then it feeds anything because of that reason.
The totally functionality of the gun is OK for the money, and in
Kaynuhduh, I can't add to that.....
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Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 00:42:21 -0500
From: "Letsgosailing"
Subject: Re: Norinco 1911 problems
You can slug your barrel with a .455-.457 black powder bullet or .455 casul
and then measure it with a micrometer to find the exact size and order
cast bullets to that size for your cartridges.
Yanni Marinated
S/V Princess Thalia
Hamilton
www.yannismarine.ca
--
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National Association of Assault Research
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|>------------------------------
|>
|>Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2006 21:59:41 -0500
|>From: "Ed Sieb"
|>Subject: RE: Norinco 1911 problems
|>
|>I dion't know. Mine looks and fires normally for me.
|>
|>Ed Sieb
|>- ----------------------------------------------
I was just being technical as well as curious, mine works well with
the muzzle brake, since the barrel bushing wasn't tight enough anyway
(shims?)....W/C shock buffs, Mag. Bevel...things, mods.
Since the chambering bullet (set-back) when chambering is almost
nonexistent till about 4 chamberings, the ejection of a new bullet dud, may
hang if the port is not chamfered using various methods....I seen it happen
elsewhere as well.
The .45 ACP keeps it's full length of 1.25" till it is re
chambered, meaning the port is a real tight squeeze if ejecting a whole DUD
bullet.
Although it may be a problem only to the Nor 1911 Compact model,
there have been a great variety of totally different problems in the last 5
years..........not really more than the original or clones these
days....just different manufacturing tolerances.
nhga咖nhga.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 09:41:09 -0600
From: wrpa
> I've noticed that the Norinco 1911 .45 ACP has a larger chamber than
>the usual 1911a1 and Clones.......the chamber/barrel itself seems to be for
>some .455 caliber.
>
> If you try a test with a painted snapcap or other, you will notice
>that chambering has little effect on the bullet,......that is no barrel
>markings compared to the 1911a1 and Clones....
>
> It is my contention that these Norinco 1911 .45 ACP barrels are
>simply used barrels, somewhat refurbished, and then chrome plated to cover up
>the work if any......
I just compared my Norinco 1911 with my Colt Gold Cup. While I didn't
slug the barrels I used my digital calipers to compare the bore.
I increased (in .0005" increments) and locked the possition then tried
to insert it into the muzzle end of each barrel. The result for the
Norinco barrel was the same as for the Colt barrel. I then took some
lead round nose bullets in cases and did the same test as you described.
The results were the same for both guns. While I only did this test
with one Norinco gun (all I had) I have never heard of this problem
with others that have Norinco 1911s in 45ACP. If the barrels were
that sloppy I would expect to hear about leading problems and at least
one gunsmith would have found what you claim.
Maybe you should send your barrel back for replating. (Sarcasm) I would
be real surprised that Norinco would go to all the effort of manufacturing
all the parts of a gun and then try to find some old barrels to refurbish.
If they were to do this then why not refurbish the whole gun? And chrome
plating does not hide anything. If you had a poor finish to start with
then after chrome plating you will see it. Your conclusions are unlikely.
------------------------------
nhga咖nhga.org
Subject: Re: Norinco 1911 problems
From: "sales @marstar"
Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2006 11:33:28 -0500
Robert LaCasse wrote: *Good morning;*
> I've noticed that the Norinco 1911 .45 ACP has a larger chamber than the usual 1911a1 and Clones.......the chamber/barrel itself seems to be for some .455 caliber.*How did you arrive at this conclusion ? How did you measure it ? Which manufacturers did you compare them to ?? I assume you refer to SAAMI specs for your comparisons ?*
>
>
*I'm certain you are already aware of this but perhaps you could take a
moment to share your knowledge with the rest of us ?
The .455 Eley auto, which is the only .455 ever used in the 1911 pistol
which was made by Colt for the RAF in WW-1.
There are numerous differences, perhaps you could take a moment to
explain how you would arrive at your "facts" ?
_.455 Eley Auto .45acp_
Rimmed case Rimless case
A .45acp round would fire in a .455 barrel only if held by the
extractor, not the best of functions....Not to mention excessive
headspace issues.
Bore .455 nominal Bore .451 nominal
Firing a .45acp round would lead to some very innacurate results.
Case length .910-.930 Case length .898
Since the .455 Headspaces on the rim the chamber length is not critical,
although the British adopted .910 as the standard in 1912.
Since the .45acp, unlike the .455, headspaces on the case mouth it
cannot do so in the .455 chambering.
Rim Diameter .500 Rim Diameter .479
A different extractor was needed on the .455 pistols. This also dictated
a different magazine be used, they were clearly marked so as not to be
confused with the more common .45acp*
If you try a test with a painted snapcap or other, you will notice that
chambering has little effect on the bullet,*Not certain I understand
here, what has the chamber got to do with the bullet ? *
.....that is no barrel markings compared to the 1911a1 and Clones....
*Are you perhaps referring to the free bore ? The forcing cone ?
The lead ?*
> It is my contention that these Norinco 1911 .45 ACP barrels are simply used barrels, somewhat refurbished, and then chrome plated to cover up the work if any...... *And exactly how did you arrive at this fantastic and absurd conclusion ??*
>
*Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain why, after selling
thousands of the pistols and vast numbers of spare barrels, you are the
very first to arrive at these conclusions....?*
>If you know the international surplus market you would certainly be aware that there have not been any surplus 1911 barrels on the market for many, many years....
>
>
*In addition, if you were to chrome over existeing barrels (using your
conclusions) your bore diameter would then change (smaller).
Barrels made for chrome plating have to be manufactured over bore so
that once the chrom plating is applied the manufacturer ends up with the
correct bore diameter.
But I assume you already know all this as you must be basing your
conclusions on your personal experience in dealing with various
manufacturers over the years and having them produce firearms for you.... ?
*
> From the general work of the gun, anything is possible concerning the variants it may have, but the interfacing with other (1911a1 and Clones.) for
>parts, is 99.9%, the grip screws are different *This is correct.....The bushings and screws are metric insteadof inch pattern....*
>
The Slide Stop is a bitshorter which adds to a Mag follower connection
in the (stay open) last shotconsideration......but then it feeds
anything because of that reason. *Please explain how the short slide
stop helps this pistol to "feed anything", I'm afraid this is something
new....*
> The totally functionality of the gun is OK for the money, and in Kaynuhduh, I can't add to that.....
>
>
*I look forward to your reply by return,
John/Marstar Canada Inc.*
nhga咖nhga.org
|>> It is my contention that these Norinco 1911 .45 ACP barrels are simply used barrels, somewhat refurbished, and then chrome plated to cover up the work if any...... *And exactly how did you arrive at this fantastic and absurd conclusion ??*
|>>
|>*Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain why, after selling
|>thousands of the pistols and vast numbers of spare barrels, you are the
|>very first to arrive at these conclusions....?*
Mostly because nobody has bothered to notice it (Nor_In_Co), since it
is quite irrelevant and the chamber works smoother if larger, which is
probably why they don't condone light .45 ACP bullet lubrications, since they
would just occasionally jam...though I have yet to try this myself....
|>>If you know the international surplus market you would certainly be aware that there have not been any surplus 1911 barrels on the market for many, many years....
|>>
|>>
|>*In addition, if you were to chrome over existeing barrels (using your
|>conclusions) your bore diameter would then change (smaller).
|>Barrels made for chrome plating have to be manufactured over bore so
|>that once the chrom plating is applied the manufacturer ends up with the
|>correct bore diameter.
|>But I assume you already know all this as you must be basing your
|>conclusions on your personal experience in dealing with various
|>manufacturers over the years and having them produce firearms for you.... ?
|>*
Well that clears up a bit of stuff, the chrome is just a bit thinner
on mine...not that a cunt hair difference of tolerance is going to make a
difference in a 1911a1 ACP format...
It's not something I would bother to write Prez. De of (Nor_In_Co)
about...
nhga咖nhga.org
|>
|>> From the general work of the gun, anything is possible concerning the variants it may have, but the interfacing with other (1911a1 and Clones.) for
|>>parts, is 99.9%, the grip screws are different *This is correct.....The bushings and screws are metric insteadof inch pattern....*
|>>
|>The Slide Stop is a bitshorter which adds to a Mag follower connection
|>in the (stay open) last shotconsideration......but then it feeds
|>anything because of that reason. *Please explain how the short slide
|>stop helps this pistol to "feed anything", I'm afraid this is something
|>new....*
The length of the (slide stop mag catch) has always been a
consideration in how the mag would feed in relation to it's obstruction to
the chambering line up......especially the 1911a1 config.
The shorter/flatter Norinco (slide stop mag catch) pretty much needs
the proprietary Norinco Mag follower rather than the 5+ other ones to stay
open on the last shot, depending on how much time you want to spend on
playing with a little piece of metal to all aggravations and catch22
considerations...
The Generic aftermarket *Mag followers* that work on almost any
1911a1 will not work well in keeping the slide open on the last shot of a
Norinco, I've compared that other 1911 colts.
In the use of .45 ACP "ball" 230gr. FMJ ammo it will feed any 1911a1
and will feed straight into the chamber with no (to the left) ramp/throat
feeds.
Eventually it all worked well for me....as it is known, they are a
project gun....
©mk2-acp@us-mail.net
|>
|>If you try a test with a painted snapcap or other, you will notice that
|>chambering has little effect on the bullet,*Not certain I understand
|>here, what has the chamber got to do with the bullet ? *
|>.....that is no barrel markings compared to the 1911a1 and Clones....
|>*Are you perhaps referring to the free bore ? The forcing cone ?
|>The lead ?*
Yes you got it, I am referring to the free bore, The forcing cone,,
The lead/metal/fmj.....
It's all too loose compared to the other 1911a1, although there may
be an engineered purpose for that, which does not affect the shooting from a
user point of view..
This *engineered* looseness greatly reduces the bullet setback on
chambering, therefore eliminating the ease of ejecting a full *DUD* round
without some hang on the slide port, so I chamfered that......it may be
something overlooked as a catch22 during the NorInCo 1911a1 designing
compensation.
The best features of the NorInCo 1911a1 .45 ACP are the Hammer, Mag
Follower, recessed trigger, thumb sear safety long groove rather than just a
detent, which other 1911a1 don't surpass, maybe because they don't need
to....
©mk2-acp@us-mail.net
|>
|>If you try a test with a painted snapcap or other, you will notice that
|>chambering has little effect on the bullet,*Not certain I understand
|>here, what has the chamber got to do with the bullet ? *
|>.....that is no barrel markings compared to the 1911a1 and Clones....
|>*Are you perhaps referring to the free bore ? The forcing cone ?
|>The lead ?*
Yes you got it, I am referring to the free bore, The forcing cone,,
nhga咖nhga.org
Search: .45 ACP Advantages of loose Chamber (All the words)
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24. Packing.org | Best and Worst Firearms?| Old talk
... had any problems with: Colt 1911A1 Series 70 (customized), Ruger
22/45, FEG FP9 (Hi-Power ... 1944), Norinco 1911A1 and a Glock 36.
http://www.packing.org/talk/thread.jsp/24196/
50%
25. www.rkba.org
can cause problems for the defender if used indoors. Outdoors, they.
can
be affected by the direction ... 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who
are, or who have made a. declaration of intention to ...
http://www.rkba.org/research/rkba.faq
50%
26. Packing.org | What Do You Carry ?| Old talk
Springfield 1911A1 Added by NEC 9201 on 2004-09-29 @ 08:35:47 ...
size,
parkerized, Springfield 1911A1 / 1+7 / 45 ACP 230 gr JHP / ...
http://www.packing.org/talk/thread.jsp/30966/
48%
27. FAQ] rec.guns FAQ Pointer FAQ
Models and Manufacturers a. 1911A1 2. ... Help to ID M1911A1 Govt 45
Auto
Pistols ... Norinco @ Norinco Model of the 1911 ...
http://www.non.com/news.answers/rec-guns-FAQ-pointer.html
46%
28. 1911 GI doesn't like lead - Gun and Game Forums
... having feed problems(breech not fully closing)on my sub compact
45.I
was told I ... Small batch of NIB Norinco 1911A1's found | Worn-out ...
http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/m1911-clone-pistols/25678-1911-gi-does
nt-like-lead.html
44%
29. Whos packin heat - Topic Powered by eve community
... rare occasion I want to carry something beefy it's the Taurus
PT945
.45 ACP. ... Colt .45, stainless Officer's Model.
http://forums.military.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/6621918696/m/388102624
40%
30. rec.guns FAQ: V.G.1. Ammunition for the Self-Defense Firearm
... inaccurate man with a .357 Magnum or $1200 customized .45 auto
...
pistol owners (if you insist on Glasers, carry one in the chamber ... in
newer guns like the current production "enhanced" Colt 1911A1 ...
http://www.recguns.com/Sources/VG1.html
37%
31. Mail Index
7.5 semi-auto from AIM. Was: Reloading 7.5 MAS...
http://www.shelfspace.com/~c-r-ffl/archives/199803
33%
32. Defense Articles > Blog Archive > Handgun round-up - new handguns ...
... calibers from .22 through .45 Colt ? which also fires .410
buckshot
rounds. ... U.S. by Norinco. Models include the classic 1911A1, ...
http://simindia.org/articles/handgun-round-up-new-handguns-buyers-guide
.html
31%
33. talk.politics.guns Official Pro-Gun FAQ 2/2
Your help is encouraged. ... Many of these programs are set up to
accept
... Some people may have inherited a gun, or have an old war relic in their
attic ...
http://omicron.felk.cvut.cz/FAQ/articles/a695.html
31%
34. Collectors Talk. [Archive] - WarRifles
... to be in progress! Mosin 91/59's at Allan's Armory; 1911A1 ...
Danish
VAR; M1 Question; A 1903 only a mother could love! Norinco ... Finishing
chamber for .308 Garand .45 ACP Conversion legal?? Enfield #4 mark 2 ...
http://www.warrifles.com/forums/archive/index.php?f-57.html
28%
35. OK so I'm not really a cowboy. > Things that go boom
also available with a .45-70 cylinder, which is a plus as far ...
leftie
psych metrosexual looks at that same plain jane 1911A1 he ... Some people
say that people who are into guns have control problems ...
http://www.indiancowboy.net/blog/?cat=6
24%
nhga咖nhga.org
from Dave:
Norinco barrel at the wide place was .699
GI WWI barrel at the same place .685
Systima barrel at the same place .688
Kart NM EZ fit at the same place .693
So my guess at first was correct in that the barrel is simply too big around.
The end of the barrel was .584, the Kart was .478. That is where the bushing
rides. As luck would have it, I had a take out SS Barrel Bushing that was
full of Evil Mojo, but I blessed it and fitted it to the ID of the Norinco
barrel, and the OD of Deans old WWI 1911 army gun. It is a good looking
bushing and will work fine now.
Search: Norinco problem 1911a1 .45 Chamber problems (All the words)
Found: 33 result(s) on The Web
Date: 12/28/2006 1:23:31 AM
1. Gun Failures
... fix for the feeding problems was to chamfer the chamber mouth
with a
30cal FMJ ... stop in a stainless Springfield 1911A1 45 showed a crack at
1100 rounds ...
http://www.alpharubicon.com/leo/gunfailures.htm
93%
2. Opinions on 7.62x25mm pistol and gelatin testing? - Page 2 - THR
Clark's posts were the first where I had read about the chamber
problem,
... to load in a stressful situation compared to something like an 1911A1.
...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=235156&page=2
89%
3. Gun Failures
Broken extractor on a colt .45 colt 45 clone - had feeding problems.
...
stop in a stainless Springfield 1911A1 45 showed a crack at 1100 ...
http://www.alphacgsn.com/warlord/leo/gunfailures.htm
87%
4. Gunsmithing and Repairs [Archive] - Page 9 - THR
Sight Problem, 1911-A1 . Norinco Grip Bushing Dilemma . Recommends
for
lopping a barrel . Lubing internals of D/A revolver? Para Ordnance P12-45
Cure ...
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/f-16-p-9.html
86%
5. Norinco #3 has made it home. - Family, Friends, Firearms
Except for the problems with the one magazine everything fed, fired
and
ejected. ... in a full auto firearm but I had no such problem in 300 or so
rounds of .45 ...
http://www.familyfriendsfirearms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1102
85%
6. Ammunition For The Self-Defense Firearm
... carry one in the chamber and load the magazine ... Winchester has
an
odd 45 gr. "Expanding Point ... rounds. The main problem with carrying +P
.38 ... P loads with no problems: SIG/Sauer P220 ...
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm
84%
7. Packing.org | What Do You Carry ?| Old talk
Springfield 1911A1 Added by NEC 9201 on 2004-09-29 @ 08:35:47 ...
size,
parkerized, Springfield 1911A1 / 1+7 / 45 ACP 230 gr JHP / ...
http://www.packing.org/talk/thread.jsp/30966/
83%
8. Bullseye-l FAQ Section 2 - Equipment
Norinco TT Olympic ... Ruger Mark II or 22/45 ... To combat this
problem
the Army uses a cartridge from Black Hills Ammunition ...
http://www.doppke.com/~jls/bullfaq/sec2.html
80%
9. Gunboards - Which 45 to get?
I have both a Para 12.45 LDA and a mil-spec Auto Ord 1911A1. ... and
uncounted thousands of rounds with ZERO (that's right, naught) problems.
...
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=40803
80%
10. M1911 CD1
III Pistol, by NRA Tech Staff; CLT0163 Colt .22-.45 Conversion Unit,
by E.
Hoffschmidt ... by C.E.Harris; CLT1077 .45 ACP Hammer Problems, by Ellis
Lea ...
http://www.frfrogspad.com/cltindx.htm
80%
11. The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site - New AO Break In Problems
New AO Break In Problems. I took out my new AO 1911A1 today and
experienced an interesting problem. ... 45 acp headspaces off of the case
(how it sits in ...
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?p=38481
80%
12. The Beagle Express: Guns and Stuff Archives
... can be a real problem. So Novak has ... and chambered in .45
would be
nice ... seated in the chamber. So there is one ... his didn't have
problems functionong ... Springfield 1911A1 (new) there ...
http://www.beaglexp.com/archives/cat_guns_and_stuff.html
78%
13. Post your new 1911 horror stories here - Glock Talk
At least there are no customer service problems to go along with the
gun
problem. ... Then I bought a Norinco 1911 with oversized barrel ...
http://glocktalk.com/sitemap/topic/313421-1.html
67%
14. RIA 45 goverment for auto beater - 1911Forum
... grips cracked and recoil spring was to weak to put slide back to
chamber a round. ... My kimber 1911 had some feeding problems. ...
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125863
67%
15. Sat. 10/28 Firearms Auction lot list - text
Lot 116 - Smith & Wesson - Single Shot, 3rd - Rare Olympic chamber .
- .22
Long Rifle ... Lot 246 - Colt - Model 1911A1 U.S. Army - .45 ACP -
Refinished. - 99% bright plating w/ cloudy patches ...
http://www.armsbid.com/6c-0-Sat-Firearms-Auction.htm
67%
16. OutdoorsBest Forums: .45 Caliber? So what does everone have?
As to 1911-A1 45-caliber pistols, they all have had some problems at
times. ... The Chinese Norinco model 1911-A1 45 ACP is one and the Bersa
thunder Argentine ...
http://outdoorsbest.zeroforum.com/zerothread?cmd=print&id=464904
63%
17. rec.guns FAQ: V.G.1. Ammunition for the Self-Defense Firearm
... pistol owners (if you insist on Glasers, carry one in the chamber
...
series and SIG P230 are notorious for this failure-to-cycle problem ... in
newer guns like the current production "enhanced" Colt 1911A1 ...
http://www.recguns.com/Sources/VG1.html
63%
18. www.rkba.org
can cause problems for the defender if used indoors. ... problem" are
the
ones which deny their good citizens any other ... 313 of title 32, under 45
years of age who are, or who have ...
http://www.rkba.org/research/rkba.faq
63%
19. Problems with a full-size 9mm 1911- Please help - 1911Forum
... laying around from a loaded .45 (which has had none of these
problems)
... could physically push down on the barrel chamber when in battery on the
9mm and ...
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=186522
59%
20. The M1911 Pistols Organization Forums Site - Sig Arms 1911
The only problem is you can't do it at the prices on average
firearms. ...
on a loaded chamber and it is more prone to problems than the external
extractor. ...
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?p=12613
59%
21. Whats It Gonna Take To Make My Chinese 1911 Reliable? - THR
Norinco 1911A1 Gov. Bill Wilson'ized, a gift & My Favorite pistol:
...
Note too that a failure to feed means that the round doesn't enter the
chamber. ...
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=173646
57%
22. Is FTF typical in the break in period? - 1911Forum
( No problem with Hydrashocks) ... ( No problems at all with the Sig
P220ST) ... Some 1911A1/magazine/ammo combinations just do not seem to
mix...
http://www.1911forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153180
53%
23. Gallery Of Guns
Discussion center for novices to gun enthusiasts at Gallery of Guns.
Search firearm models. Ruger specialists.
http://discus.galleryofguns.com/messages/78/78.html
52%
24. Looking at new AK's - Glock Talk
It has a chromed bore and chamber, which I consider essential. ...
flats"
) - anything that says NORINCO MAK-90 and DOES NOT HAVE the ...
http://glocktalk.com/sitemap/topic/567400-1.html
44%
25. Gallery Of Guns
Llama .45. LesBaer Premier II Vs. H&K Expert Vs. Springfield Trophy
Vs.
S&W Match. Lefty 1911a1 ... Chamber Inserts. Can anyone offer an opinion
about Kahr ...
http://discus.galleryofguns.com/messages/78/78.html?1108503034
37%
26. Why do you prefer a revolver? - Glock Talk
If you hit what you aim at, capacity is a theoretical problem. ...
than 22
revolvers because 22 autos have fixed barrels with one firing chamber.
http://glocktalk.com/sitemap/topic/351078-1.html
37%
27. Some 1911 History by Massad Ayoob - Survival Monkey Forums
... 45 1911s that hold six rounds in the magazine and a seventh in
the
chamber, to ... I have two custom Colt 1911A1 .45 pistols, one crafted by
Mark Morris and the ...
http://www.survivalmonkey.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12
35%
28. Whos packin heat
... rare occasion I want to carry something beefy it's the Taurus
PT945
.45 ACP. ... When Im home I carry my Norinco 1911A1.
http://forums.military.com/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/6621918696/m/388102624/p/1
/xsl/print_topic
35%
29. faq
... enthusiastic response in many cities, and have succeeded in
getting
large ... can take credit for 'solving' problems without having to ask
their constituents ...
http://rkba.org/research/rkba.faq.2
33%
30. Tanknet > M9 9mm On The Way Out
... has taken the basic colt 1911a1 design and made myriad little
incremental ... have medium sized hands, and aside from the lefty problems
it has I'd rather ...
http://www.tank-net.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t8972.html
33%
31. WE SHALL REMAIN ARMED AND PRACTICED [Free Republic]
... my Swede($85), a $300 Norinco 1911 that out shoots $600 pistols,
a
.380 Makarov that ... That Norinco 1911A1 is the best buy of this ...
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39cd1d8b28aa.htm
31%
32. Ammunition For The Self-Defense Firearm
... panicky, inaccurate man with a .357 Magnum or $1200 customized
.45
auto every time. ... Glasers, carry one in the chamber and load the ...
http://www.adjunct.diodon349.com/Attack_on_USA/ammo_for_sefl_defense_fi
rearm.htm
27%
33. talk.politics.guns Official Pro-Gun FAQ 2/2
... enthusiastic response in many cities, and have succeeded in
getting
large ... to dump old, obsolete, unsaleable (and in some cases even
non-functional) ...
http://www.cs.uu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/talk-politics-guns/pro-gun-faq/par
t2.html
24%
nhga咖nhga.org
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 11:06:17 -0800
From: "Todd B.
Subject: Re: Norinco and quality control
Comparing a Norinco product to one made by almost any other manufacturer is
a no-brainer.
One gets what one pays for in most things, guns included. The Norincos work,
go 'bang' and are fair value for the investment. Same for a lot of other
Chinese made products from Wal Mart.
When it comes to something such as a .45 semi-automatic pistol which will
likely see severe use in the hands of a competitive shooter, it is another
matter. I just bought a magazine on the current state of the art re: the
1911 for street and competition. I didn't see anything on building either
based on a Norinco.
Is this just a slam against a foreign made clone of an American classic? I
think not. Some US makers are either having complete guns made in other
countries or components that are built into complete guns in the US by top
name makers.
My experience with Norinco products is based on a few guns I've seen on the
range, mostly military patterns and some Winchester '97 clones. Again, fair
value for the money, but.....
The one and only Norinco product I've purchased was a bolt action 7.62 x
39mm which made a quick turn around back to the supplier. It made a Cooey
product look high class by comparison. Rough edges, lots of tool marks and
I'd have been loathe to torque down on some of the screws for fear of
shearing them. Wood looked like something from a wood working class with a
sloppily applied paint/stain finish.
It came out of the box with a badly corroded bore. Wanting to save the
expense and bother of returning it, I scrubbed it with all means at my
disposal - bronze bore brushes, any bore cleaner you can name, starting with
hot, soapy water and several commercial products. I got a super clean bore
with not pits, but pot holes for it's entire length.
I was offered an exchange by the supplier - not on a bet! Buyer beware.
TB
------------------------------
nhga咖nhga.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2006 14:37:52 -0500
From: "Letsgosailing"
Subject: Re: Norinco and quality control
<snip>
>
> When it comes to something such as a .45 semi-automatic pistol which will
> likely see severe use in the hands of a competitive shooter, it is another
> matter. I just bought a magazine on the current state of the art re: the
> 1911 for street and competition. I didn't see anything on building either
> based on a Norinco.
<snip>
>
> TB
As far as I know the Norinco 1911 are basically use for competition ONLY
when they're gutted out and the frame is finished and hard-chromed.
All the internal parts are replaced by high grade competition parts either
from
Wilson or Ed Brown workshops.
The rest are throughn in the scrap bin to return back to china as scrap
steel.
Yanni Marinated
S/V Princess Thalia
Hamilton
www.yannismarine.ca
------------------------------