Any bents for a person with limited/no arm function?
ron
that could be used by someone with little or no arm function. So, both
steering and power would come from the legs/feet. The person is not too
interested in a trike which I thought would offer the best likelihood
finding a solution.
The individual is apparently otherwise fit and active and wants to get into
cycling if possible.
Thus, my question to the group... is there such a two wheeled bent? Has
anyone seen one factory or home-built? Is this a ridiculous/unrealistic
objective -- can't imagine how one would do both steering and powering a 2
wheeled bent but that is just my limited experience showing. Is there a
trike option that might be worth investigating?
Sorry I don't have any further info on the person's experience. I think the
limited functioning of the arms is a life-long situation, not the result of
a recent accident.
I agreed to ask around. Any ideas appreciated.
Ron
Ottawa Cda
Torben Scheel
http://ligfiets.net/flevofan/e-ch4-13.htm last two pictures in particular.
But the original are discontinued? http://www.flevobike.com
Homebrew . Python : http://www.python.de.tt
Equipped with a Shimano nexus 7 speed hub (with brake) and a innovative
shifter, it should work.
Regards,
Torben
"ron" <ron....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:mwNMa.338$NW1....@news20.bellglobal.com...
Torben Scheel
Ian
Flevo in Holland do bikes and trikes with leg steering.
Ian
Ian
Also, come to think of it, haven't Shimano come up with a Nexus hub and auto
gear change? Could be a good combination.
Ian
Dave Larrington
> Commercial - Flevobike have possibilities :
> http://ligfiets.net/flevofan/e-ch4-13.htm last two pictures in
> particular. But the original are discontinued?
> http://www.flevobike.com
The Flevobike is still available from Ligfietsshop Tempelman -
http://www.ligfietsshop.nl/nl/tempelman/bike_nl.htm and
http://www.ligfietsshop.nl/nl/tempelman/bikeair_nl.htm
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================
Lewis Campbell
on an FWB 'bent.
One of these, I believe is a gentleman named Bill Patterson.
You might want to try a search on this newsgroup for him.
Hope this helps.
Lewis.
........................
"ron" <ron....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message news:<mwNMa.338$NW1....@news20.bellglobal.com>...
Joshua Goldberg
2 feet to steer and brake with. The motor could have a throttle adapted so
the left/right movement of his knees.
Personally I would applaud his desire to use a 2 wheel bent to be mobile,
same time I would question his understanding of how a 2 wheel bent
works...unless he has a death wish or a desire to become a Quadraplegic.
The ideal Platform for this chap would be a Delta Trike like a Kettweisel or
maybe an EZ-3. USS would be too twitchy for foot steer, so the EZ-3 would be
easier to alter. It would be easy to adapt the mono front wheel steering for
foot use and have a Mid Drive Motor assist to replace the cranks. Braking
would be by Discs activated by his feet or better yet the outerside of his
knees pushing against a spring loaded panel.
A Thought....contact Julie Kennedy @ APAX in Ottawa and see if their
Prototype Delta can be altered for his needs.
Hmmmm I thought APAX was due to be Unleashed to the masses by May 01, 03???
Anyone hear what what is going on with APAX (this time)??
**************************
"Ian" <i...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:BB29B92E.827A%i...@btinternet.com...
cbb
bikes were claimed by some to be rideable with no hands.
I think a trike would be a better solution. There are many very nice
recumbent trikes. Some of which are quite fast. If this individual is
thinking of the granny trikes then I understand but the recumbent
trikes are another matter.
dubya fan
> that could be used by someone with little or no arm function. So, both
> steering and power would come from the legs/feet. The person is not too
> interested in a trike which I thought would offer the best likelihood
> finding a solution.
>
THE BIKE RACK, in St Charles, IL specializes in bikes for mobility-impaired
folks. Give them a call or visit their web page.
rich
S. Delaire "Rotatorrecumbent"
Don Gray, a one armed person, rode an Easy Racer well, could give the best
riders a good hard run.
He mounted both shifters on one side of the handle bar and a splitter on the
brake cable.
As long as the person can balance ok, then any brand will work with some changes
to the controls.
Both arms no function is another story.
Speedy
ron wrote:
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
harv
the pilot and the front position is ideal for the physically challenged who
can supply leg power.
Stan
> Thus, my question to the group... is there such a two wheeled bent? Has
> anyone seen one factory or home-built?
Regarding 'home-built' use this link to see an example:
Best regards,
Stan
Ian
ron
I'll summarize and forward to the bike shop. I have sent off a couple
emails to the links you provided so perhaps more info will come from that.
This info should help a lot.
Best regards,
Ron
"ron" <ron....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:mwNMa.338$NW1....@news20.bellglobal.com...
Ian Smith
> He could always slap a Motor on the 2 wheeler for forward speed and use his
> 2 feet to steer and brake with. The motor could have a throttle adapted so
> the left/right movement of his knees.
In what way is it cycling if all the propulsion comes from a motor and
the driver, sorry, rider just steers and brakes it? It just sounds
like car driving to me.
Anyway, I'd have thought you'd need to go for a trike and something
that's lean steer with back-pedal braking.
regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
Mark Stonich
> Thanks guys. I really appreciate your time and all the suggestions which
> I'll summarize and forward to the bike shop. I have sent off a couple
> emails to the links you provided so perhaps more info will come from that.
My neighbors are confined to wheelchairs, and have *very* limited
hand/arm function. The ride all over the neighborhood, in electric
chairs controlling throttle, brake and steering with one little
joystick.
One could adapt an EZ 3 to be steered with small servomotors. Braking
could also be done with motors or using one of the internal geared
hubs with coaster brake. If he can't shift manually, the Shimano
Nexus Auto-D is very reliable, and is available with the coaster
brake. However, it is only a 4 speed.
This is just the sort of project I like to take on, but have more work
than I can handle for at least the next year or two. If he contacts
me with more specific info about the arm function he does have, I may
be able to make other suggestions.
Joshua Goldberg
cycling can be done by people with all kids of physical disabilities except
for 2 biggies, no vision and no arms.
this person was supposed to have very limited or no ability to use their
hands to steer with.
this means the feet must do all the steering.
this person also did NOT want a trike...the options available are therefore
very limited.
As for saying the bent is the same as a car...if a motor is used for
propulsion.
Maybe Motorcycle is a better example.
This person would derive benefit to their entire body on a bent and hardly
no benefit in a car/
*****************
"Ian Smith" <i...@astounding.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnbgcvp...@phlegethon.smithnet...
Just zis Guy, you know?
<evsol...@bellnet.ca> wrote:
>cycling can be done by people with all kids of physical disabilities except
>for 2 biggies, no vision and no arms.
I'm not sure about the armless ones, but my mate Bob is a keen cyclist
(and an expert bike mechanic and wheelbuilder) despite having
absolutely no vision whatsoever. He rides a tandem and a group of us
take it in turns to take the captain's seat. Bob, of course, is in
the Admiral's seat :-)
Guy
===
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony.
http://www.chapmancentral.com
Advance notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP.
Obviously there will be a week of downtime between the engineer
removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same
equipment on the same line in the same exchange and billing it to
the new ISP.
Joshua Goldberg
A Seeing Eye dog might work but if it was distracted the rider would be
following where the dog goes, tree, fire hydrant, chasing a cat through the
garden of Cacti.
Seeing Eye dogs are trained to ignore almost all distractions (except one)
and that would be the Dreaded-Hot-Horney-Bitch with the Pink Leather collar.
Your seeing eye dog knows you cannot see him and what he is doing and what
doogie can resist some hot roadside luvin.
Dog looks at you on your bent..looks at FeeFee strutting her stuff with her
tail in the air...he looks at you...looks at FeeFee, you just know you are
going to be sitting on your bent in park waiting for your pooch to finish
making FeeFee howl like a Banshee and what if FeeFee plays hard to get and
dashes across 6 lanes of rush hour traffic with your dog and you in hot
pursuit.
Last Saturday noon I was riding down University Ave at a good clip (street
slopes down a bit). I then get something in my right eye. I only have one
eye and so I hit the brake (back brake wasn't connected). I glide to a stop,
take out my water bottle of Ice Water and splash water in eye and wipe with
a towel...vision restored....I seem to have come to a complete stop in the
middle of a busy intersection. All the cars took me in stride and drove
around me like it was normal to see a guy parked on a bent in the middle of
a very busy intersection.
But anyone who is blind would face the same problem of never knowing were he
is riding or where he has come to a stop and how would he know he has got to
where he was going ?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <guy.c...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
news:0lsdgvsdm2vr7git1...@4ax.com...
Ian Smith
> This person would derive benefit to their entire body on a bent and hardly
> no benefit in a car/
What benefit - you assert there's a benefit, but what more benefit do
you get sitting on a motorised bike than you get sitting in a
motorised car? I'd like to know, but you haven't made any suggestion
yet as to what the benefit might be (beyond asserting that it will
apply to the whole body).
Just zis Guy, you know?
<evsol...@bellnet.ca> wrote:
>Yes, but your friend cannot steer the bike/bent without his vision.
No Vision for those with no vision, right?
Mikael Seierup
"Ian Smith" skrev
> What benefit - you assert there's a benefit, but what more benefit do
> you get sitting on a motorised bike than you get sitting in a
> motorised car?
Fresh air and free protein?
Joshua Goldberg
On a bent the person will be making almost full use of his body/muscles. The
back is pushed up against the backrest, he needs to balance himself, some
lean-steer involved, leg muscles for sure get a work out, hips used, feet
off pedals and planted on the pavement at stops and leg and lower body
muscles to raise legs back up and feet onto pedals. Neck muscles to see
where he is going and what is to his sides, shoulders used to get into a
solid riding position, vocal cords and throat muscles used for screaming
"you pathetic jerk" at motorists who don't pay attention. All his senses are
used to keep alive etc. Riding a bent is a workout that is hardly comparable
to sitting in a bucket seat of a Chevey...and you get your lungs sucking
air, heart is racing....and you know you are alive.
*************************************news:slrnbge6u...@phlegethon.smithnet...
RattRigg
first ride, since they wouldnt be able to find the bike the second
time anyway.
"Joshua Goldberg" <evsol...@bellnet.ca> wrote in message news:<2eENa.970$C52....@news20.bellglobal.com>...
> Yes, but your friend cannot steer the bike/bent without his vision.
>
>
Ian Smith
> On a bent the person will be making almost full use of his body/muscles.
So you keep saying. I'm still vaguely hoping for an answer to the
question how.
> The back is pushed up against the backrest,
No more than in a car.
> he needs to balance himself, some lean-steer involved,
No more than standing up.
> leg muscles for sure get a work out,
Eh? on a bicycle with motor for propulsion teh leg muscles get a
workout? How?
> hips used, feet off pedals and planted on the pavement at stops and
No more than getting up out of any seat.
> leg and lower body muscles to raise legs back up and feet onto pedals.
Putting your feet up is a workout?
> Neck muscles to see where he is going and what is to his sides,
No more than in a car.
And so on. Your idea of a full-body workout seems to be getting up
out of a seat, looking around, sitting down again. Now, I'll admit
that if that is the case a few miles on a motorised recumbent will
indeed be a pretty tough workout, but for most people standing up is
not major physical exercise.
Fred Klingener
function would need hub-mounted coaster brakes, an obvious problem with the
standard derailleur arrangement that won't tolerate tension in the return
chain.
But howcome? Why couldn't we rig a ratchet in the return chain idler and
use that to actuate, by backpedaling, whatever standard brake setup we
wanted to use - caliper, drum, disc, etc. This would tension the return
chain between the front chain ring and the idler, leaving the rear
derailleur assembly alone.
The function comes at some cost. First, the ratchet will introduce some
friction when the chain is travelling normally. Second, noting that in the
typical bent, the return chain turns around the return idler (if it's
present at all) at a very shallow angle, a second idler might be required to
make the chain run securely under all conditions.
Two questions come up:
1. Does anyone know of an instance of this mechanism?
2. Why not?
Unless someone else owns it, I hereby place this terrific idea in the public
domain.
Hmmm. Sounds like a nifty addition to the back wheel of my GTO. The return
side of the chain goes right past it, and ...
I'll get on it as soon as I get my shop, lathe, Bridgeport, and welder.
Fred Klingener
Joshua Goldberg
motorized bent delta trike????
As for the Leg Muscle workout, remember that the male is using his feet to
steer with (not pedal). His legs would need to stay fairly rigid and
straight for long periods...try sitting in a chair and extend both legs
straight out and hold that position for 30 minutes with only the arch of
your feet on a bar/pedal to support your legs. With legs straight and rigid
the rest of your body is in motion on a trike (unless) you have mega
suspension and the EZ-3 has no such suspension...remember the legs have
replaced the pilot's arms and hands.
Also note we are dealing with an EZ-3 Delta trike with a Hub Motor inside
the front wheel. This motor has added 12 pounds of weight just to the front
wheel and this is 12 added pounds for the legs to be steering.
The Hub Motor will need approx'ly 42 lbs. of SLA batteries in the rear
carrier. The EZ-3 is now NOT a lightweight Delta and the heavier it gets,
the harder the leg muscles will need to work to maintain a straight driving
line.
I regularly take my E-Motor powered tadpole out for a ride and I am using
more muscles on the trike than on my E-Motor CLWB.
As for your thought that it is no BIG deal getting into/out of a trike
seat....have you tried doing it?
Better yet...since this male has zero arm function....have someone tie your
arms behind your back and then see just how easy you get into/out of a trike
seat, lift up your legs and position your feet on the pedals used to steer
your delta with.
And YOU really think that you push back against a car seat with the same
force as you would on a bent trike....good grief, how many times Ian have
your tipped over your car in a turn? In a turn you need to push back hard
and then shift your weight to the side...no point in falling off your seat
(since you don't have any arms) to grab onto your frame with.
Don't know what kind of car you drive, but comparing a car to a E-Powered
Delta recumbent trike with foot only steering is cockeyed.
I guess the only way to settle this would be for you to get an EZ-3....go to
see Fast Freddy Markham at Easy Racer and tell him you are a really good
friend of mine and that you hate his Stiletto design more than I do and then
tell him you wanna borrow an EZ-3 from the warehouse because you wanna rip
it apart and stick a front wheel motor on it for a test ride....Oh and
you'll need to get both your arms broken first, but I figure Fast Freddy
would be more than happy to do that for you without you even asking him too.
BTW how is England treating you since you left Rhodesia?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Ian Smith" <i...@astounding.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnbgfm4...@phlegethon.smithnet...
Ian Smith
> You appear to know quite a bit about cars...have you ever tried riding a
> motorized bent delta trike????
>
> As for the Leg Muscle workout, remember that the male is using his feet to
> steer with (not pedal). His legs would need to stay fairly rigid and
> straight for long periods
Yep, like driving a car, where you keep your feet fairly still for
long periods, just making adjustments to pedal controls.
> ...try sitting in a chair and extend both legs
> straight out and hold that position for 30 min
Whenever I sit in any chair I rest with my feet just supported at one
point. I guess maybe you have padding under the whole length of thigh
and calf to hold your legs up for you?
> As for your thought that it is no BIG deal getting into/out of a trike
> seat....have you tried doing it?
You mean besides my daily commute in a Trice Xl (eXtra Low)? Just
because someone disagrees with you Joshua, doesn't mean they do so out
of a position of ignorance, but that's the whole thrust of your post -
have you ever this, why don't you try that, etc. etc. etc.
> And YOU really think that you push back against a car seat with the same
> force as you would on a bent trike
As a bent trike you're not propelling with your feet - absolutely.
> BTW how is England treating you since you left Rhodesia?
Oh ho ho. How is Jericho since you left?
Joshua Goldberg
and really send ARBR sideways...(they sound like they are married to one
another).
BTW you are aware that your trike is not a Delta and we are talking about a
Delta configuration. I have (currently) 2 Deltas and 2 Tadpoles...one of
each with an E-Motor.
What got me seeing red was you are attacking the use of the E-Motor and
trying to show that a bent so equipped is the same as a car....and you took
some annoyance at my point that (everyone) bent will eventually slap a motor
on their bent. HPV purists get their shorts in a twist when one suggests
that (someday) they will be reduced to mere navigators of a power assisted
cycles....but reality bites.
Someday you too will be looking into a power-assist unit...you might go
kicking and screaming into a power-assist and you might be 89 years old and
peeing into a bag, but you will still (need) a P.A. if you wanna stay mobile
and bent.
People get the wrong image of a P.A., they assume that once the P.A. is
attached that they'll never use their cranks again. Yes there is that urge
for many, but most of us do pedal as much (if not) more than before...just
that the strokes are not as hard.
As for my disagreeing with you because I assumed you were an ignorant little
git. I wasn't attacking you because of what you said...well maybe a bit, but
I (may) have had more experience working with the physically challenged to
support my points than you have had.
So ya wanna stick with our current debate or do we slide into arguing
politics?
***********************************
"Ian Smith" <i...@astounding.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnbggcs...@phlegethon.smithnet...
Mikael Seierup
"Joshua Goldberg" skrev
> Someday you too will be looking into a power-assist unit...you might go
> kicking and screaming into a power-assist and you might be 89 years old and
> peeing into a bag, but you will still (need) a P.A. if you wanna stay mobile
> and bent.
I want the Vision jetassist. Might as well go out with a big noise
and presumably a big bang. Or was I thinking of the 20-year old nurse here? *scratch*
If you two decide to marry I think Ian & Joshua Goldsmith would sound nice. ;o)
M.
Ian Smith
> BTW you are aware that your trike is not a Delta and we are talking
> about a Delta configuration.
Nope, you said "As for your thought that it is no BIG deal getting
into/out of a trike seat....have you tried doing it?" You will
observe not one mention of delta/tadpole in that statement. "A trike"
is as specific as you made it.
Nor did you specify climbing into a delta rather than a tadpole in the
relevant part of the preceding post.
Besides which, are you actually trying to claim that a tadpole is easy
to get into / out of and a delta is a whole body workout?
> and you took some annoyance at my point that (everyone) bent
> will eventually slap a motor on their bent.
It may well be easier for you to disagree with things I haven't said
rather than what I have said, but doing so is lying, and it's not
nice. I have made no comment whatsoever about you saying everyone
will put a motor on their bent. In fact, I haven't noticed that
particular claim in this thread. Please either provide a quote and
message reference, or withdraw your false report about what I have
said.
> People get the wrong image of a P.A., they assume that once the P.A. is
> attached that they'll never use their cranks again. Yes there is that urge
> for many, but most of us do pedal as much (if not) more than before...just
> that the strokes are not as hard.
That's not what you proposed though, is it - you proposed a motor for
propulsion, not for assist - you've said "remember that the male is
using his feet to steer with (not pedal)". You've explicitly proposed
that the motor be the exclusive means of propulsion - this person is
not going to pedal. Make your mind up what you're arguing about.
> So ya wanna stick with our current debate or do we slide into arguing
> politics?
I'm unaware of saying anything in this thread about politics. Do you
enjoy making things up and then either stating or implying someone
said them?
I'm still waiting, by the way, for a credible explanation of how
riding a bent where the propulsion is exclusively from a motor gives
one a whole body workout. Are you ever going to answer?
Joshua Goldberg
In the original message to Ron I said EZ-3....are you Ron?
The message you took a swipe at me for was my reply to Ron in Ottawa in
which I wrote use a Kettweisel or an EZ-3 and the last time I looked the
EZ-3 and the Kett are Deltas....so it is your turn to apologize.
I'll go back and read what I wrote to Ron just in case but still remember
that I was talking about an EZ-3.
************************************
"Ian Smith" <i...@astounding.org.uk> wrote in message
news:slrnbggst...@phlegethon.smithnet...
Joshua Goldberg
My Legal 1st name is Julian and I was best known as IAN, but I changed it in
1969 for religious reasons to Yehoshua and later to Joshua.
My Legal surname is not Goldberg, that is my mother's Maiden name...and
prior to 1969 I used my legal surname. I am reverting back to my original
surname soon, now that my dad and I have (finally) stopped arguing about
which end of an egg to break open 1st.
--------------------------------------
"Mikael Seierup" <briang...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:be9p22$2qd8q$1...@ID-169681.news.dfncis.de...
Jeff Wills
> Two questions come up:
>
> 1. Does anyone know of an instance of this mechanism?
>
> 2. Why not?
>
> Unless someone else owns it, I hereby place this terrific idea in the public
> domain.
Too late. Bullseye (the crank and hub people) produced a lever and
ratchet mechanism that attatched to their cranks that would (with
correct fittings) pull on one or more brake cables when the cranks
were back pedaled. I don't know if they're still made, and Bullseye
no longer maintains a web presence.
Is there anyone in Burbank, California that can walk over to Bullseye
and ask them?
Jeff
