The individual is apparently otherwise fit and active and wants to get into
cycling if possible.
Thus, my question to the group... is there such a two wheeled bent? Has
anyone seen one factory or home-built? Is this a ridiculous/unrealistic
objective -- can't imagine how one would do both steering and powering a 2
wheeled bent but that is just my limited experience showing. Is there a
trike option that might be worth investigating?
Sorry I don't have any further info on the person's experience. I think the
limited functioning of the arms is a life-long situation, not the result of
a recent accident.
I agreed to ask around. Any ideas appreciated.
Homebrew . Python : http://www.python.de.tt
Equipped with a Shimano nexus 7 speed hub (with brake) and a innovative
shifter, it should work.
"ron" <ron....@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
Flevo in Holland do bikes and trikes with leg steering.
Also, come to think of it, haven't Shimano come up with a Nexus hub and auto
gear change? Could be a good combination.
The Flevobike is still available from Ligfietsshop Tempelman -
Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
One of these, I believe is a gentleman named Bill Patterson.
You might want to try a search on this newsgroup for him.
Hope this helps.
The ideal Platform for this chap would be a Delta Trike like a Kettweisel or
maybe an EZ-3. USS would be too twitchy for foot steer, so the EZ-3 would be
easier to alter. It would be easy to adapt the mono front wheel steering for
foot use and have a Mid Drive Motor assist to replace the cranks. Braking
would be by Discs activated by his feet or better yet the outerside of his
knees pushing against a spring loaded panel.
A Thought....contact Julie Kennedy @ APAX in Ottawa and see if their
Prototype Delta can be altered for his needs.
Hmmmm I thought APAX was due to be Unleashed to the masses by May 01, 03???
Anyone hear what what is going on with APAX (this time)??
"Ian" <i...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
THE BIKE RACK, in St Charles, IL specializes in bikes for mobility-impaired
folks. Give them a call or visit their web page.
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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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> Thus, my question to the group... is there such a two wheeled bent? Has
> anyone seen one factory or home-built?
Regarding 'home-built' use this link to see an example:
This info should help a lot.
> He could always slap a Motor on the 2 wheeler for forward speed and use his
> 2 feet to steer and brake with. The motor could have a throttle adapted so
> the left/right movement of his knees.
In what way is it cycling if all the propulsion comes from a motor and
the driver, sorry, rider just steers and brakes it? It just sounds
like car driving to me.
Anyway, I'd have thought you'd need to go for a trike and something
that's lean steer with back-pedal braking.
regards, Ian SMith
|\ /| no .sig
My neighbors are confined to wheelchairs, and have *very* limited
hand/arm function. The ride all over the neighborhood, in electric
chairs controlling throttle, brake and steering with one little
One could adapt an EZ 3 to be steered with small servomotors. Braking
could also be done with motors or using one of the internal geared
hubs with coaster brake. If he can't shift manually, the Shimano
Nexus Auto-D is very reliable, and is available with the coaster
brake. However, it is only a 4 speed.
This is just the sort of project I like to take on, but have more work
than I can handle for at least the next year or two. If he contacts
me with more specific info about the arm function he does have, I may
be able to make other suggestions.
As for saying the bent is the same as a car...if a motor is used for
Maybe Motorcycle is a better example.
This person would derive benefit to their entire body on a bent and hardly
no benefit in a car/
"Ian Smith" <i...@astounding.org.uk> wrote in message
>cycling can be done by people with all kids of physical disabilities except
>for 2 biggies, no vision and no arms.
I'm not sure about the armless ones, but my mate Bob is a keen cyclist
(and an expert bike mechanic and wheelbuilder) despite having
absolutely no vision whatsoever. He rides a tandem and a group of us
take it in turns to take the captain's seat. Bob, of course, is in
the Admiral's seat :-)
** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony.
Advance notice: ADSL service in process of transfer to a new ISP.
Obviously there will be a week of downtime between the engineer
removing the BT service and the same engineer connecting the same
equipment on the same line in the same exchange and billing it to
the new ISP.
A Seeing Eye dog might work but if it was distracted the rider would be
following where the dog goes, tree, fire hydrant, chasing a cat through the
garden of Cacti.
Seeing Eye dogs are trained to ignore almost all distractions (except one)
and that would be the Dreaded-Hot-Horney-Bitch with the Pink Leather collar.
Your seeing eye dog knows you cannot see him and what he is doing and what
doogie can resist some hot roadside luvin.
Dog looks at you on your bent..looks at FeeFee strutting her stuff with her
tail in the air...he looks at you...looks at FeeFee, you just know you are
going to be sitting on your bent in park waiting for your pooch to finish
making FeeFee howl like a Banshee and what if FeeFee plays hard to get and
dashes across 6 lanes of rush hour traffic with your dog and you in hot
Last Saturday noon I was riding down University Ave at a good clip (street
slopes down a bit). I then get something in my right eye. I only have one
eye and so I hit the brake (back brake wasn't connected). I glide to a stop,
take out my water bottle of Ice Water and splash water in eye and wipe with
a towel...vision restored....I seem to have come to a complete stop in the
middle of a busy intersection. All the cars took me in stride and drove
around me like it was normal to see a guy parked on a bent in the middle of
a very busy intersection.
But anyone who is blind would face the same problem of never knowing were he
is riding or where he has come to a stop and how would he know he has got to
where he was going ?
"Just zis Guy, you know?" <guy.c...@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> This person would derive benefit to their entire body on a bent and hardly
> no benefit in a car/
What benefit - you assert there's a benefit, but what more benefit do
you get sitting on a motorised bike than you get sitting in a
motorised car? I'd like to know, but you haven't made any suggestion
yet as to what the benefit might be (beyond asserting that it will
apply to the whole body).
>Yes, but your friend cannot steer the bike/bent without his vision.
No Vision for those with no vision, right?
> What benefit - you assert there's a benefit, but what more benefit do
> you get sitting on a motorised bike than you get sitting in a
> motorised car?
Fresh air and free protein?
> Yes, but your friend cannot steer the bike/bent without his vision.
> On a bent the person will be making almost full use of his body/muscles.
So you keep saying. I'm still vaguely hoping for an answer to the
> The back is pushed up against the backrest,
No more than in a car.
> he needs to balance himself, some lean-steer involved,
No more than standing up.
> leg muscles for sure get a work out,
Eh? on a bicycle with motor for propulsion teh leg muscles get a
> hips used, feet off pedals and planted on the pavement at stops and
No more than getting up out of any seat.
> leg and lower body muscles to raise legs back up and feet onto pedals.
Putting your feet up is a workout?
> Neck muscles to see where he is going and what is to his sides,
No more than in a car.
And so on. Your idea of a full-body workout seems to be getting up
out of a seat, looking around, sitting down again. Now, I'll admit
that if that is the case a few miles on a motorised recumbent will
indeed be a pretty tough workout, but for most people standing up is
not major physical exercise.
But howcome? Why couldn't we rig a ratchet in the return chain idler and
use that to actuate, by backpedaling, whatever standard brake setup we
wanted to use - caliper, drum, disc, etc. This would tension the return
chain between the front chain ring and the idler, leaving the rear
derailleur assembly alone.
The function comes at some cost. First, the ratchet will introduce some
friction when the chain is travelling normally. Second, noting that in the
typical bent, the return chain turns around the return idler (if it's
present at all) at a very shallow angle, a second idler might be required to
make the chain run securely under all conditions.
Two questions come up:
1. Does anyone know of an instance of this mechanism?
2. Why not?
Unless someone else owns it, I hereby place this terrific idea in the public
Hmmm. Sounds like a nifty addition to the back wheel of my GTO. The return
side of the chain goes right past it, and ...
I'll get on it as soon as I get my shop, lathe, Bridgeport, and welder.
As for the Leg Muscle workout, remember that the male is using his feet to
steer with (not pedal). His legs would need to stay fairly rigid and
straight for long periods...try sitting in a chair and extend both legs
straight out and hold that position for 30 minutes with only the arch of
your feet on a bar/pedal to support your legs. With legs straight and rigid
the rest of your body is in motion on a trike (unless) you have mega
suspension and the EZ-3 has no such suspension...remember the legs have
replaced the pilot's arms and hands.
Also note we are dealing with an EZ-3 Delta trike with a Hub Motor inside
the front wheel. This motor has added 12 pounds of weight just to the front
wheel and this is 12 added pounds for the legs to be steering.
The Hub Motor will need approx'ly 42 lbs. of SLA batteries in the rear
carrier. The EZ-3 is now NOT a lightweight Delta and the heavier it gets,
the harder the leg muscles will need to work to maintain a straight driving
I regularly take my E-Motor powered tadpole out for a ride and I am using
more muscles on the trike than on my E-Motor CLWB.
As for your thought that it is no BIG deal getting into/out of a trike
seat....have you tried doing it?
Better yet...since this male has zero arm function....have someone tie your
arms behind your back and then see just how easy you get into/out of a trike
seat, lift up your legs and position your feet on the pedals used to steer
your delta with.
And YOU really think that you push back against a car seat with the same
force as you would on a bent trike....good grief, how many times Ian have
your tipped over your car in a turn? In a turn you need to push back hard
and then shift your weight to the side...no point in falling off your seat
(since you don't have any arms) to grab onto your frame with.
Don't know what kind of car you drive, but comparing a car to a E-Powered
Delta recumbent trike with foot only steering is cockeyed.
I guess the only way to settle this would be for you to get an EZ-3....go to
see Fast Freddy Markham at Easy Racer and tell him you are a really good
friend of mine and that you hate his Stiletto design more than I do and then
tell him you wanna borrow an EZ-3 from the warehouse because you wanna rip
it apart and stick a front wheel motor on it for a test ride....Oh and
you'll need to get both your arms broken first, but I figure Fast Freddy
would be more than happy to do that for you without you even asking him too.
BTW how is England treating you since you left Rhodesia?
> You appear to know quite a bit about cars...have you ever tried riding a
> motorized bent delta trike????
> As for the Leg Muscle workout, remember that the male is using his feet to
> steer with (not pedal). His legs would need to stay fairly rigid and
> straight for long periods
Yep, like driving a car, where you keep your feet fairly still for
long periods, just making adjustments to pedal controls.
> ...try sitting in a chair and extend both legs
> straight out and hold that position for 30 min
Whenever I sit in any chair I rest with my feet just supported at one
point. I guess maybe you have padding under the whole length of thigh
and calf to hold your legs up for you?
> As for your thought that it is no BIG deal getting into/out of a trike
> seat....have you tried doing it?
You mean besides my daily commute in a Trice Xl (eXtra Low)? Just
because someone disagrees with you Joshua, doesn't mean they do so out
of a position of ignorance, but that's the whole thrust of your post -
have you ever this, why don't you try that, etc. etc. etc.
> And YOU really think that you push back against a car seat with the same
> force as you would on a bent trike
As a bent trike you're not propelling with your feet - absolutely.
> BTW how is England treating you since you left Rhodesia?
Oh ho ho. How is Jericho since you left?
What got me seeing red was you are attacking the use of the E-Motor and
trying to show that a bent so equipped is the same as a car....and you took
some annoyance at my point that (everyone) bent will eventually slap a motor
on their bent. HPV purists get their shorts in a twist when one suggests
that (someday) they will be reduced to mere navigators of a power assisted
cycles....but reality bites.
Someday you too will be looking into a power-assist unit...you might go
kicking and screaming into a power-assist and you might be 89 years old and
peeing into a bag, but you will still (need) a P.A. if you wanna stay mobile
People get the wrong image of a P.A., they assume that once the P.A. is
attached that they'll never use their cranks again. Yes there is that urge
for many, but most of us do pedal as much (if not) more than before...just
that the strokes are not as hard.
As for my disagreeing with you because I assumed you were an ignorant little
git. I wasn't attacking you because of what you said...well maybe a bit, but
I (may) have had more experience working with the physically challenged to
support my points than you have had.
So ya wanna stick with our current debate or do we slide into arguing
> Someday you too will be looking into a power-assist unit...you might go
> kicking and screaming into a power-assist and you might be 89 years old and
> peeing into a bag, but you will still (need) a P.A. if you wanna stay mobile
> and bent.
I want the Vision jetassist. Might as well go out with a big noise
and presumably a big bang. Or was I thinking of the 20-year old nurse here? *scratch*
If you two decide to marry I think Ian & Joshua Goldsmith would sound nice. ;o)
> BTW you are aware that your trike is not a Delta and we are talking
> about a Delta configuration.
Nope, you said "As for your thought that it is no BIG deal getting
into/out of a trike seat....have you tried doing it?" You will
observe not one mention of delta/tadpole in that statement. "A trike"
is as specific as you made it.
Nor did you specify climbing into a delta rather than a tadpole in the
relevant part of the preceding post.
Besides which, are you actually trying to claim that a tadpole is easy
to get into / out of and a delta is a whole body workout?
> and you took some annoyance at my point that (everyone) bent
> will eventually slap a motor on their bent.
It may well be easier for you to disagree with things I haven't said
rather than what I have said, but doing so is lying, and it's not
nice. I have made no comment whatsoever about you saying everyone
will put a motor on their bent. In fact, I haven't noticed that
particular claim in this thread. Please either provide a quote and
message reference, or withdraw your false report about what I have
> People get the wrong image of a P.A., they assume that once the P.A. is
> attached that they'll never use their cranks again. Yes there is that urge
> for many, but most of us do pedal as much (if not) more than before...just
> that the strokes are not as hard.
That's not what you proposed though, is it - you proposed a motor for
propulsion, not for assist - you've said "remember that the male is
using his feet to steer with (not pedal)". You've explicitly proposed
that the motor be the exclusive means of propulsion - this person is
not going to pedal. Make your mind up what you're arguing about.
> So ya wanna stick with our current debate or do we slide into arguing
I'm unaware of saying anything in this thread about politics. Do you
enjoy making things up and then either stating or implying someone
I'm still waiting, by the way, for a credible explanation of how
riding a bent where the propulsion is exclusively from a motor gives
one a whole body workout. Are you ever going to answer?
I'll go back and read what I wrote to Ron just in case but still remember
that I was talking about an EZ-3.
Too late. Bullseye (the crank and hub people) produced a lever and
ratchet mechanism that attatched to their cranks that would (with
correct fittings) pull on one or more brake cables when the cranks
were back pedaled. I don't know if they're still made, and Bullseye
no longer maintains a web presence.
Is there anyone in Burbank, California that can walk over to Bullseye
and ask them?
I was an instructor in Special Physical Ed for several years and I
know that many people with handicaps won't let anything stand in their
way of doing things like this. I know a guy with cerebral palsy who has
no useful leg function, but he commutes 15 miles a day on a recumbent,
hand-cranked tricycle. He can't speak more than just a little bit, but
carries a voice-generating keyboard with a cell phone and can make calls
when needed. That tricycle is his ticket to freedom and the joy of
rolling along under his own power.
When he gets to work, he does things on a computer that earn a very good
living. He could do this all from home, but does anyone not understand
why he chooses to take this arduous journey every day?
> The message you took a swipe at me for was my reply to Ron in Ottawa
I've taken no swipe. I've asked you to explain in what way a rider
who is putting no propulsive effort into riding a recumbent gets more
of a full body workout than does the driver of a car. So far you've
repeatedly evaded the question, other than asserting that sitting down
and putting your feet up is really hard work, as is turning your head
and a few sundry other trivial movements.
> which I wrote use a Kettweisel or an EZ-3 and the last time I looked the
> EZ-3 and the Kett are Deltas....so it is your turn to apologize.
The problem is, Joshua, I was responding to what you wrote.
Unfortunately, I can't read your mind (it may well make conversation
with you easier if I could) and I can only respond to what you wrote.
What you wrote was "As for your thought that it is no BIG deal
getting into/out of a trike seat....have you tried doing it?". No
mention of delta. In the previous message you simply said "On a bent"
- again no mention of delta or tadpole, or even trike for that matter.
Now, as well as waiting for an explanation of how sitting on a trike
and not pedalling constitutes a full body workout, I'm waiting for
confirmation that you consider getting onto a delta is really hard
whereas a tadpole is really easy, and also for you to withdraw the
statements/sentiments you attributed to me but which I did not make.
Are you going to, or do you fancy making some more silly name jibes
>I'm waiting for
>confirmation that you consider getting onto a delta is really hard
>whereas a tadpole is really easy, and also for you to withdraw the
>statements/sentiments you attributed to me but which I did not make.
Hey, Ian, you missed the bit about apologising for his untrimmed
> You appear to be having trouble following threads on this Newsgroup. You
> keep saying I am evading your question, but I have answered your question.
Where? You said sitting down and turning your head is hard work - is
that the full body workout to which you refer?
Also, you haven't yet confirmed that you believe getting into a delta
is hard work but getting into a tadpole is easy. It's certainly the
implication of what you said, but it would be nice to have you confirm
it or withdraw your snide comment on the topic.
Also, you haven't yet admitted that I didn't make the statements about
power assist you attributed to me.
Are you going to address any of these, or is it simply too much
physical exertion for you to raise your arms and press the keys
after the workout you did sitting down?
I am not Tom Sherman or Edward Dolan, they are way out of your league
intellectually, but they are kind enough to let you play in their OT
sandbox...I do not have the time nor the inclination to be so gracious. Use
your printer and printout all of what you wrote and what I wrote and compare
them, you'll see you are contradicting yourself.
Am curious Ian, do you live alone, have trouble fitting in with people, feel
that everyone around you is as dumb as a plank and this is why they ignore
Question: IF you use your arms instead of your fingers to type with....do
you use your teeth to open your zipper?
IIRC Haase and Bilenky make stoker steered tandems, which is what I'd
recommend for a person with limited arm control who wants to ride outside.
Stop your neener neener stuff or we'll send Fabbio around to give you both
>snippage of much ego driven bullshit
The person who steers the Hase Pino  and Bilenky Viewpoint  sits
in an upright position behind the recumbent seated rider in front, but I
would still consider him/her to be the captain.
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)