Is riding to the right "submissive behavior"?
ComandanteBanana
to the alpha leader, say, peeing all over in the case of wolves and
dogs...
So all these confusing laws of "as practical to the right as
possible," only add to the submissive role of the cyclists before the
alpha drivers, who claim the lion's share of the road (territorial
claims) and leave the scraps to the lesser members of the pack.
You know, it'll be interesting to learn more from the wolves, or else
we won't any explanation to that urge to pee before aggressive
drivers... ;)
Dominance behavior
Although dogs are commonly characterized in terms of their dominance
(e.g., "Fido is very alpha."), there is some controversy as to whether
dominance is a stable personality trait.
In wild wolf packs, displays of dominance have been observed to
include "licking up," which involves essentially begging for food;
"pinning," in which the dominant dog appears to threaten another,
which shows submission by rolling over; "standing over;" territorial
marking; and more passive expressions of body language, including
holding the tail and ears erect, looking directly at other dogs,
circling and sniffing other dogs, growling if the other dog moves.
Submissive displays mirror dominant displays and include adopting a
posture that is physically lower than other dogs, such as crouching,
rolling over on the back and exposing the abdomen, lowering the tail
(sometimes to the point of tucking it between the legs), flattening of
the ears, averting the gaze, nervously licking or swallowing,
dribbling of urine, and freezing or fleeing when other dogs are
encountered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_society
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There's two kinds of people in the world: Those for the revolution and
those against the revolution.
http://webspawner.com/users/bananarevolution
Poll taken at...
Hachiroku ハチロク
>
> You know like in the Animal Kingdom, where animals signal submission to
> the alpha leader, say, peeing all over in the case of wolves and dogs...
>
> So all these confusing laws of "as practical to the right as possible,"
> only add to the submissive role of the cyclists before the alpha drivers,
> who claim the lion's share of the road (territorial claims) and leave the
> scraps to the lesser members of the pack.
I ride bikes, and I drive fast cars. And I drive them fast.
Bearing this in mind, I often ride on the left had side of the road, since
if I'm coming down the road, I wand to see how hard I'm going to hit
myself. There are a lot of Mario Andretties out there that *think* they
know how to drive, but have no regards for the rules.
I always give bicycles a wide berth, because I do ride bicycles.
When I'm riding bicycles, I get over to the side of the road, whichever
side, as far as possible. I taught my kids to do this. I taught my dogs to
do this. I also told them to GET IN SINGLE FILE. Therefore, not much
pisses me off more than being on a narrow, windy road with a 45 MPH speed
limit, and having to slam on the brakes because some cyclist thinks it's
OK to block the lane by riding two abreast. In the middle of the right
hand lane, going 30 MPH below the speed limit. One person almost bought it
on a corner smack in the middle of the lane because I was doing a little
over the limit (about 48 I think), came around the corner and there she
was. Oh, with another car coming the other direction.
I have always learned to avoid a head-on collision. So, it's a good thing
I maintain my brakes well.
To make a long story short, stay the hell where you're supposed to be.
BTW, the dumb biotch on the bike gave *ME* a dirty look. I almost backed
over her after that.
If there's one thing I really hate, it's cleaning the blood off my Supra.
Tom Sherman °_°
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:14:46 -0700, ComandanteBanana wrote:
>
>> You know like in the Animal Kingdom, where animals signal submission to
>> the alpha leader, say, peeing all over in the case of wolves and dogs...
>>
>> So all these confusing laws of "as practical to the right as possible,"
>> only add to the submissive role of the cyclists before the alpha drivers,
>> who claim the lion's share of the road (territorial claims) and leave the
>> scraps to the lesser members of the pack.
>
> I ride bikes, and I drive fast cars. And I drive them fast.
>
> Bearing this in mind, I often ride on the left had side of the road, since
> if I'm coming down the road, I wand to see how hard I'm going to hit
> myself. There are a lot of Mario Andretties out there that *think* they
> know how to drive, but have no regards for the rules.
>
the left. Period. No exceptions.
> I always give bicycles a wide berth, because I do ride bicycles.
> When I'm riding bicycles, I get over to the side of the road, whichever
> side, as far as possible. I taught my kids to do this. I taught my dogs to
> do this.
The cyclist inferiority position. You are asking to get brushed passed
or run into the ditch or curb for riding that close to the edge (in the
absence of a paved shoulder).
> I also told them to GET IN SINGLE FILE. Therefore, not much
> pisses me off more than being on a narrow, windy road with a 45 MPH speed
> limit, and having to slam on the brakes because some cyclist thinks it's
> OK to block the lane by riding two abreast. In the middle of the right
> hand lane, going 30 MPH below the speed limit. One person almost bought it
> on a corner smack in the middle of the lane because I was doing a little
> over the limit (about 48 I think), came around the corner and there she
> was. Oh, with another car coming the other direction.
>
You were going to fast for conditions. Unless there is a marked minimum
speed and/or slow moving vehicle restriction, bicycles, farm equipment,
Amish and Mennonite buggies, etc have just as much right as you do.
> I have always learned to avoid a head-on collision. So, it's a good thing
> I maintain my brakes well.
>
> To make a long story short, stay the hell where you're supposed to be.
>
Unfortunately, you are unclear on that topic.
> BTW, the dumb biotch on the bike gave *ME* a dirty look. I almost backed
> over her after that.
>
> If there's one thing I really hate, it's cleaning the blood off my Supra.
>
You would have been morally guilty of vehicular battery if you had hit
her, intentionally OR unintentionally. Take your Supra to the race track
if you want to drive that way.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
mike
twsherm...@THISsouthslope.net says...
> Hachiroku ???? wrote:
> > On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:14:46 -0700, ComandanteBanana wrote:
> >
> > I ride bikes, and I drive fast cars. And I drive them fast.
> >
> > Bearing this in mind, I often ride on the left had side of the road, since
> > if I'm coming down the road, I wand to see how hard I'm going to hit
> > myself. There are a lot of Mario Andretties out there that *think* they
> > know how to drive, but have no regards for the rules.
> >
> Riding on the left is only acceptable where motor vehicles also drive on
> the left. Period. No exceptions.
>
> > I always give bicycles a wide berth, because I do ride bicycles.
> > When I'm riding bicycles, I get over to the side of the road, whichever
> > side, as far as possible. I taught my kids to do this. I taught my dogs to
> > do this.
>
> The cyclist inferiority position. You are asking to get brushed passed
> or run into the ditch or curb for riding that close to the edge (in the
> absence of a paved shoulder).
>
the far right of the road he may be worth listening to (...or perhaps
listening for - considering the rest of his post).
Mike
Hachiroku ハチロク
> Hachiroku ハチロク wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:14:46 -0700, ComandanteBanana wrote:
>>
>>> You know like in the Animal Kingdom, where animals signal submission to
>>> the alpha leader, say, peeing all over in the case of wolves and
>>> dogs...
>>>
>>> So all these confusing laws of "as practical to the right as possible,"
>>> only add to the submissive role of the cyclists before the alpha
>>> drivers, who claim the lion's share of the road (territorial claims)
>>> and leave the scraps to the lesser members of the pack.
>>
>> I ride bikes, and I drive fast cars. And I drive them fast.
>>
>> Bearing this in mind, I often ride on the left had side of the road,
>> since if I'm coming down the road, I wand to see how hard I'm going to
>> hit myself. There are a lot of Mario Andretties out there that *think*
>> they know how to drive, but have no regards for the rules.
>>
> Riding on the left is only acceptable where motor vehicles also drive on
> the left. Period. No exceptions.
>
>> I always give bicycles a wide berth, because I do ride bicycles. When
>> I'm riding bicycles, I get over to the side of the road, whichever side,
>> as far as possible. I taught my kids to do this. I taught my dogs to do
>> this.
>
> The cyclist inferiority position. You are asking to get brushed passed or
> run into the ditch or curb for riding that close to the edge (in the
> absence of a paved shoulder).
Bull<COUGH>shit.
What you're describing is the "Dead dumb-ass" position. Riding in the
middle of the lane, on a blind corner 30 MPH under the speed limit is
acceptable?
Tell us where to send the flowers and where donations in your name may be
made.
People like you give cyclists a bad reputation. Sharing the road is one
thing, but arrogance is inexcusable, esp when you're putting your life, my
life, and perhaps another motorists life in danger because it's your right
to ride wherever the hell you want.
If it comes down to running you off/over and getting into a head on
collision because you're a twit, bye! Like I said, where do I send the
flowers?
And, after I hit you, and you're NOT dead, and there's a scratch on my
Supra, I'll get out and kick you while you're down, too, just for being
such an arrogant dipshit.
>
>> I also told them to GET IN SINGLE FILE. Therefore, not much pisses me
>> off more than being on a narrow, windy road with a 45 MPH speed limit,
>> and having to slam on the brakes because some cyclist thinks it's OK to
>> block the lane by riding two abreast. In the middle of the right hand
>> lane, going 30 MPH below the speed limit. One person almost bought it
>> on a corner smack in the middle of the lane because I was doing a
>> little over the limit (about 48 I think), came around the corner and
>> there she was. Oh, with another car coming the other direction.
>>
> You were going to fast for conditions. Unless there is a marked minimum
> speed and/or slow moving vehicle restriction, bicycles, farm equipment,
> Amish and Mennonite buggies, etc have just as much right as you do.
<YAWN> Yup. Well within speedo error. And I recently found out there is a
speedo error of...3 MPH at 50, so I was really going...45.
If you really want to *push* the "just as much right as you do", on a
blind corner, in the middle of the lane, 30 MPH under the speed limit,
then I hope you make a good hood ornament. And if there's one thing that
REALLY pisses me off, it's whatever there was of some moron's brain
splattered on my windshield.
Grow up.
>
>> I have always learned to avoid a head-on collision. So, it's a good
>> thing I maintain my brakes well.
>>
>> To make a long story short, stay the hell where you're supposed to be.
>>
> Unfortunately, you are unclear on that topic.
I have no problem. Push the issue, in the middle of the lane, on a blind
corner, doing 30 MPH under the speed limit, with another car coming in the
opposite direction, and maybe the next time it will be someone with a
brake line just waiting for a sudden jump on the pedal before it splits
and sprays brake fluid all over the road.
One of two things is going to happen. If it's someone like me, your ass is
in the gutter, where it probably belongs, or you've just caused a head-on
collision by being an arrogant ass.
You are one of the prime examples why there should be bicycle licenses. In
Mass you are supposed to be riding on the right, as far to the right as
you can go. NOT in the middle of the road. So, if you want to speak in
terms of legalalities, there you go. Keep your ass out of the middle of
the road.
>
>> BTW, the dumb biotch on the bike gave *ME* a dirty look. I almost
>> backed over her after that.
>>
>> If there's one thing I really hate, it's cleaning the blood off my
>> Supra.
>>
> You would have been morally guilty of vehicular battery if you had hit
> her, intentionally OR unintentionally. Take your Supra to the race track
> if you want to drive that way.
Keep your bike out of the middle of the road like Moms tell their 5 year
olds and we'll all be just fine, won't we?
Morally guilty? You don't know me very well. If it's me or some arrogant
ass in the middle of the road where they shouldn't be, Bye Bye!
Tell me where to send the flowers.
Let me just say, if I can SEE you, and I can SEE further down the road,
and no one is coming, cool. I'll go around you as far to the left as I can.
You do NOT have the right to impede the orderly flow of traffic. I suggest
you contact your local DMV and get back to us.
I've been riding bikes and motorcycles since I was 5 years old.
I've had bicycle and motorcycle safety classes.
YOU need to learn a LOT. I'm surprised you're not in a hospital somewhere.
Don't 'submit', fool.
Hachiroku ハチロク
Damn straight! I had the best bike riding dogs in the neighborhood!
And when I'm riding, even if I have a radio/MP3 player, I keep it low
enough to hear the surroundings.
Unless I'm on a bike trail. But, I stay all the way to the right there,
too.
Clive George
news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
> I've been riding bikes and motorcycles since I was 5 years old.
> I've had bicycle and motorcycle safety classes.
And bizarrely have failed to learn anything about cycling safely. You're a
clueless twat. Both your riding and driving are dangerous. Talk to some
experienced people about how to ride on the road : hint, it ain't what
you're doing.
Dan O
<snip>
>
> You are one of the prime examples why there should be bicycle licenses. In
> Mass you are supposed to be riding on the right, as far to the right as
> you can go. NOT in the middle of the road. So, if you want to speak in
> terms of legalalities, there you go. Keep your ass out of the middle of
> the road.
>
What if there's already something dead on the right edge of the
road? Do I have to ride right over the top of it? Or can I move
toward the middle of the lane to go around it. (No?) What if it's
not dead yet?
Tom Sherman °_°
> What you're describing is the "Dead dumb-ass" position. Riding in the
> middle of the lane, on a blind corner 30 MPH under the speed limit is
> acceptable?
>
> Tell us where to send the flowers and where donations in your name may be
> made.
You are at fault for not keeping your sight distance greater than your
braking distance. What if you came screaming around the corner and there
was a 25 ton wheel loader going 10 mph. Your Supra would be a ball of
scrap and the loader barely scratched.
>
> People like you give cyclists a bad reputation. Sharing the road is one
> thing, but arrogance is inexcusable, esp when you're putting your life, my
> life, and perhaps another motorists life in danger because it's your right
> to ride wherever the hell you want.
>
Vehicular cycling is not "riding wherever the hell you want" but is
following the rules of right-of-way, which you would know if you calmed
down and grew up.
> If it comes down to running you off/over and getting into a head on
> collision because you're a twit, bye! Like I said, where do I send the
> flowers?
>
More maturity in your posting, I see.
> And, after I hit you, and you're NOT dead, and there's a scratch on my
> Supra, I'll get out and kick you while you're down, too, just for being
> such an arrogant dipshit.
>
Ooh, a tough guy on Usenet! [Yawn]
>>> I also told them to GET IN SINGLE FILE. Therefore, not much pisses me
>>> off more than being on a narrow, windy road with a 45 MPH speed limit,
>>> and having to slam on the brakes because some cyclist thinks it's OK to
>>> block the lane by riding two abreast. In the middle of the right hand
>>> lane, going 30 MPH below the speed limit. One person almost bought it
>>> on a corner smack in the middle of the lane because I was doing a
>>> little over the limit (about 48 I think), came around the corner and
>>> there she was. Oh, with another car coming the other direction.
>>>
>> You were going to fast for conditions. Unless there is a marked minimum
>> speed and/or slow moving vehicle restriction, bicycles, farm equipment,
>> Amish and Mennonite buggies, etc have just as much right as you do.
>
> <YAWN> Yup. Well within speedo error. And I recently found out there is a
> speedo error of...3 MPH at 50, so I was really going...45.
>
Your speedometer error, or posted limits for that matter, have little to
do with maximum speed appropriate for conditions. In the hills of
southwest Wisconsin, the secondary roads have a 55 mph speed limit, but
come over a blind crest at that speed and you may have a farm implement
as a new hood ornament. In that case, where should we send the flowers?
> If you really want to *push* the "just as much right as you do", on a
> blind corner, in the middle of the lane, 30 MPH under the speed limit,
> then I hope you make a good hood ornament. And if there's one thing that
> REALLY pisses me off, it's whatever there was of some moron's brain
> splattered on my windshield.
>
> Grow up.
>
Your post shows a complete lack of maturity, and frustrated aggression.
Behind the wheel is not the place to take it out in a civilized society
(neither is Usenet for that matter).
>
>>> I have always learned to avoid a head-on collision. So, it's a good
>>> thing I maintain my brakes well.
>>>
>>> To make a long story short, stay the hell where you're supposed to be.
>>>
>> Unfortunately, you are unclear on that topic.
>
> I have no problem. Push the issue, in the middle of the lane, on a blind
> corner, doing 30 MPH under the speed limit, with another car coming in the
> opposite direction, and maybe the next time it will be someone with a
> brake line just waiting for a sudden jump on the pedal before it splits
> and sprays brake fluid all over the road.
>
> One of two things is going to happen. If it's someone like me, your ass is
> in the gutter, where it probably belongs, or you've just caused a head-on
> collision by being an arrogant ass.
>
I see you have no respect for rightful users of the road. Duly noted.
> You are one of the prime examples why there should be bicycle licenses. In
> Mass you are supposed to be riding on the right, as far to the right as
> you can go. NOT in the middle of the road. So, if you want to speak in
> terms of legalalities, there you go. Keep your ass out of the middle of
> the road.
>
The Massachusetts legislature erred in passing anti-cyclist measures.
>>> BTW, the dumb biotch on the bike gave *ME* a dirty look. I almost
>>> backed over her after that.
>>>
Nice gender slur there, by the way.
>>> If there's one thing I really hate, it's cleaning the blood off my
>>> Supra.
>>>
>> You would have been morally guilty of vehicular battery if you had hit
>> her, intentionally OR unintentionally. Take your Supra to the race track
>> if you want to drive that way.
>
>
> Keep your bike out of the middle of the road like Moms tell their 5 year
> olds and we'll all be just fine, won't we?
>
Moms also tell their 5 year olds to ride the wrong way, on the sidewalk,
etc which is not appropriate for an adult vehicular cyclist.
> Morally guilty? You don't know me very well. If it's me or some arrogant
> ass in the middle of the road where they shouldn't be, Bye Bye!
>
Your anti-social nature has been made perfectly clear.
> Tell me where to send the flowers.
>
> Let me just say, if I can SEE you, and I can SEE further down the road,
> and no one is coming, cool. I'll go around you as far to the left as I can.
>
> You do NOT have the right to impede the orderly flow of traffic. I suggest
> you contact your local DMV and get back to us.
>
You do not have the right to pass the cyclist unless there is room to
safely do so, and the cyclist has the legal right to ride far enough
left to avoid the road debris, gravel or grass verge, OR unsafe passing
by motor vehicles.
> I've been riding bikes and motorcycles since I was 5 years old.
> I've had bicycle and motorcycle safety classes.
>
You obviously has bad classes, learning problems, or a willful attitude.
Or maybe you are just a Usenet troll.
> YOU need to learn a LOT. I'm surprised you're not in a hospital somewhere.
>
Sorry, over 3 decades riding in traffic with no bicycle to motor vehicle
collisions.
>
> Don't 'submit', fool.
>
Whatever that means.
Please offer something better than bellowing machismo in your next post.
Hachiroku ハチロク
Is it feeling better? Does it want to go for a walk?
I'd just run it over, like someone did with the dead cat I saw this
morning. *I* picked it up, put it in my sack and had a hearty breakfast,
and then some nice soup. I needed some new guitar strings, too...
Different circumstances. This person was just riding in the middle. Period.
Tom Sherman °_°
his speeding Supra.
Hachiroku ハチロク
Oh, please explain, PLEASE, how riding two abreast, on a blind curve, 30
MPH under the speed limit is SAFE! Please?!?!?!
And also why staying all the way to the right/left is not.
I can't WAIT to hear this...
Hachiroku ハチロク
I'm not going to sweat too much if you insist on being in the middle where
it is not safe to do so.
>
>> And, after I hit you, and you're NOT dead, and there's a scratch on my
>> Supra, I'll get out and kick you while you're down, too, just for being
>> such an arrogant dipshit.
>>
> Ooh, a tough guy on Usenet! [Yawn]
>
>>>> I also told them to GET IN SINGLE FILE. Therefore, not much pisses me
>>>> off more than being on a narrow, windy road with a 45 MPH speed limit,
>>>> and having to slam on the brakes because some cyclist thinks it's OK
>>>> to block the lane by riding two abreast. In the middle of the right
>>>> hand lane, going 30 MPH below the speed limit. One person almost
>>>> bought it on a corner smack in the middle of the lane because I was
>>>> doing a little over the limit (about 48 I think), came around the
>>>> corner and there she was. Oh, with another car coming the other
>>>> direction.
>>>>
>>> You were going to fast for conditions. Unless there is a marked minimum
>>> speed and/or slow moving vehicle restriction, bicycles, farm equipment,
>>> Amish and Mennonite buggies, etc have just as much right as you do.
>>
>> <YAWN> Yup. Well within speedo error. And I recently found out there is
>> a speedo error of...3 MPH at 50, so I was really going...45.
>>
> Your speedometer error, or posted limits for that matter, have little to
> do with maximum speed appropriate for conditions. In the hills of
> southwest Wisconsin, the secondary roads have a 55 mph speed limit, but
> come over a blind crest at that speed and you may have a farm implement as
> a new hood ornament. In that case, where should we send the flowers?
I would make donations to the local bicycle safety administration, so they
might teach people how to ride safely.
>
>> If you really want to *push* the "just as much right as you do", on a
>> blind corner, in the middle of the lane, 30 MPH under the speed limit,
>> then I hope you make a good hood ornament. And if there's one thing that
>> REALLY pisses me off, it's whatever there was of some moron's brain
>> splattered on my windshield.
>>
>> Grow up.
>>
> Your post shows a complete lack of maturity, and frustrated aggression.
> Behind the wheel is not the place to take it out in a civilized society
> (neither is Usenet for that matter).
I waould say that's almost spot on. Maturity? Maybe, but I know enough to
stay the hell out of the way of motor vehicles.
Frustrated aggression? Yeah, I'd say that's accurate, when there's some
mindless twit riding where they reall shouldn't be, for no other reason
than "Because I can, so there!"
>
>
>>>> I have always learned to avoid a head-on collision. So, it's a good
>>>> thing I maintain my brakes well.
>>>>
>>>> To make a long story short, stay the hell where you're supposed to be.
>>>>
>>> Unfortunately, you are unclear on that topic.
>>
>> I have no problem. Push the issue, in the middle of the lane, on a blind
>> corner, doing 30 MPH under the speed limit, with another car coming in
>> the opposite direction, and maybe the next time it will be someone with
>> a brake line just waiting for a sudden jump on the pedal before it
>> splits and sprays brake fluid all over the road.
>>
>> One of two things is going to happen. If it's someone like me, your ass
>> is in the gutter, where it probably belongs, or you've just caused a
>> head-on collision by being an arrogant ass.
>>
> I see you have no respect for rightful users of the road. Duly noted.
Bicyclists are the only 'rightful users'?
>
>> You are one of the prime examples why there should be bicycle licenses.
>> In Mass you are supposed to be riding on the right, as far to the right
>> as you can go. NOT in the middle of the road. So, if you want to speak
>> in terms of legalalities, there you go. Keep your ass out of the middle
>> of the road.
>>
> The Massachusetts legislature erred in passing anti-cyclist measures.
>
>>>> BTW, the dumb biotch on the bike gave *ME* a dirty look. I almost
>>>> backed over her after that.
>>>>
> Nice gender slur there, by the way.
Has nothing to do with gender. Has to do with being a bitch.
>
>>>> If there's one thing I really hate, it's cleaning the blood off my
>>>> Supra.
>>>>
>>> You would have been morally guilty of vehicular battery if you had hit
>>> her, intentionally OR unintentionally. Take your Supra to the race
>>> track if you want to drive that way.
>>
>>
>> Keep your bike out of the middle of the road like Moms tell their 5 year
>> olds and we'll all be just fine, won't we?
>>
> Moms also tell their 5 year olds to ride the wrong way, on the sidewalk,
> etc which is not appropriate for an adult vehicular cyclist.
>
>> Morally guilty? You don't know me very well. If it's me or some arrogant
>> ass in the middle of the road where they shouldn't be, Bye Bye!
>>
> Your anti-social nature has been made perfectly clear.
LOL! You're not a very good judge.
>
>> Tell me where to send the flowers.
>>
>> Let me just say, if I can SEE you, and I can SEE further down the road,
>> and no one is coming, cool. I'll go around you as far to the left as I
>> can.
>>
>> You do NOT have the right to impede the orderly flow of traffic. I
>> suggest you contact your local DMV and get back to us.
>>
> You do not have the right to pass the cyclist unless there is room to
> safely do so, and the cyclist has the legal right to ride far enough left
> to avoid the road debris, gravel or grass verge, OR unsafe passing by
> motor vehicles.
Yup. You press that.
>
>> I've been riding bikes and motorcycles since I was 5 years old. I've had
>> bicycle and motorcycle safety classes.
>>
> You obviously has bad classes, learning problems, or a willful attitude.
> Or maybe you are just a Usenet troll.
>
>> YOU need to learn a LOT. I'm surprised you're not in a hospital
>> somewhere.
>>
> Sorry, over 3 decades riding in traffic with no bicycle to motor vehicle
> collisions.
With such a demonstrated lack of just plain old Common Sense, I find that
incredible.
Tell me, on an average ride, how many times do people in 1.5 tons of steel
have to blow the horn at you?
>>
>> Don't 'submit', fool.
>>
> Whatever that means.
See the header. This was a stupid thread to begin with.
>
> Please offer something better than bellowing machismo in your next post.
Please offer som semblance of Common Sense.
Hachiroku ハチロク
Ride safely on country roads and don't fear.
But then, I am some evil monster that makes a habit out of running Moped
riders off the road, aren't I?
Edward Dolan
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
[...]
> I'd just run it over, like someone did with the dead cat I saw this
> morning. *I* picked it up, put it in my sack and had a hearty breakfast,
> and then some nice soup. I needed some new guitar strings, too...
This reference to treating cats disrespectfully is riling Ed Dolan the Great
as well as Saint Edward the Great. If I were this Hachiroku character, I
would not reference dead cats ever again.
Anyone know what oriental tribe he belongs to based on the chicken scratch
following his name?
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Hachiroku ハチロク
Really?
Every person operating a bicycle upon a way, as defined in section one of
chapter ninety, shall have the right to use all public ways in the
Commonwealth except limited access or express state highways where signs
specifically prohibiting bicycles have been posted, and shall be subject
to the traffic laws and regulations of the Commonwealth and the special
regulations contained in the section, except that: (1) the bicycle
operator may keep to the right when passing a motor vehicle which is
moving in the travel lane of the way, (2) the bicycle operator shall
signal by either hand his intention to stop or turn, and (3) bicycles may
be ridden on sidewalks outside business districts when necessary in the
interest of safety, unless otherwise directed by local ordinance. A person
operating a bicycle on the sidewalk shall yield the right of way to
pedestrians and give an audible signal before overtaking and passing any
pedestrian.
Operators of bicycles shall be subject to the following regulations:
1. The operator shall ride single file on any way except when passing.
So, it looks like the person riding abreast ws wrong.
Looks like I was wrong about sidewalks. I'll be riding there from now on.
This is from New Hampshire:
Drive Single File
Two riders are safest when riding single file on the right side of the
road. Never block traffic by riding two abreast. Persons riding bicycles
two or more abreast shall not impede the normal and reasonable flow of
traffic, and on a laned road shall ride within a single lane. (RSA 265:144
V)
From VT:
23 VSA § 1139. Riding on roadways and bicycle paths
(a) A person operating a bicycle upon a roadway shall ride as
near to the right side of the roadway as practicable, exercising
due care when passing a standing vehicle or one proceeding in
the same direction.
(b) Persons riding bicycles upon a roadway may not ride more
than two abreast except on paths or parts of roadways set aside
for the exclusive use of bicycles or except as otherwise
permitted by the commissioner of public safety in connection
with a public sporting event in which case the commissioner
shall be authorized to adopt such rules as the public good
requires. Persons riding two abreast shall not impede the normal
and reasonable movement of traffic and, on a laned roadway,
shall ride within a single lane.
For our friend from Wisconsin:
346.59 Minimum speed regulation. (2) The operator of a vehicle moving at a
speed so slow as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic
shall, if practicable, yield the roadway to an overtaking vehicle whenever
the operator of the overtaking vehicle gives audible warning with a
warning device and shall move at a reasonably increased speed or yield the
roadway to overtaking vehicles when directed to do so by a traffic officer.
(2)(a) Any person operating a bicycle or electric personal assistive
mobility device upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at
the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as
close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb of the unobstructed
traveled roadway, including operators who are riding 2 or more abreast
where permitted under sub. (3).
(3)(a) Persons riding bicycles or electric personal assistive mobility
devices upon a roadway may ride 2 abreast if such operation does not
impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. Bicycle or electric
personal assistive mobility device operators riding 2 abreast on a 2-lane
or more roadway shall ride within a single lane.
Wow. I guess they really frown upon riding two abreast, esp if it "impedes
the normal flow of traffic", and really, really urge keeping as far right
as possible.
Now end this stupid thread and ride like responsible bicyclists.
Hachiroku ハチロク
Fear not Sir Edward, it was merely an attempt at sick humor, the type for
which I am best known.
I use steel strings and don't care for soup.
I have never killed a cat, eith purposely or accidently. Maybe one or two
has had one of it's lives used up, but again, not on purpose.
And the chicken scratch? Hachi roku. 86. I like cars more than bikes.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hachi-roku
The japanese term for Toyota Trueno Gt-Apex. Chassis code is AE86 (the
term 86 is not because of its year model but the chassis) A popular drift
car for its light-weight rear wheel drive set up.
http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/9383/ae860om.jpg
http://www.jdmcars.info/cars/corolla_ae86.jpg
Edward Dolan
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
> Wow. I guess they really frown upon riding two abreast, esp if it "impedes
> the normal flow of traffic", and really, really urge keeping as far right
> as possible.
>
> Now end this stupid thread and ride like responsible bicyclists.
I am with Hachiroku that cyclists should never impede the flow of motor
vehicle traffic. It is insane to do so and could well get you killed.
But my beef with Hachiroku is his disrespect for dead cats, displayed in
another message to these honorable newsgroups. He should be damn careful
what he has to say about cats, dead or living!
Edward Dolan
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:57:16 -0500, Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2009.09.16...@e86.GTS... [...]
>>> I'd just run it over, like someone did with the dead cat I saw this
>>> morning. *I* picked it up, put it in my sack and had a hearty
>>> breakfast, and then some nice soup. I needed some new guitar strings,
>>> too...
>>
>> This reference to treating cats disrespectfully is riling Ed Dolan the
>> Great as well as Saint Edward the Great. If I were this Hachiroku
>> character, I would not reference dead cats ever again.
>>
>> Anyone know what oriental tribe he belongs to based on the chicken
>> scratch following his name?
>
> which I am best known.
>
> I use steel strings and don't care for soup.
>
> I have never killed a cat, eith purposely or accidently. Maybe one or two
> has had one of it's lives used up, but again, not on purpose.
Some members of these newsgroups think it is a fun thing to run over cats in
their fucking cars. I believe if I ever saw anyone do this I would have to
kill them. I mean how else could I ever live with myself.
> And the chicken scratch? Hachi roku. 86. I like cars more than bikes.
Well, I am guessing then that you are Japanese. As long as you not descended
from Genghis Khan, the Mongol, we can at least converse without wanting to
murder one another.
[...]
Jim Boyer
"ComandanteBanana" <nolionn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:818cacf0-cbdb-42af...@p36g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
> You know like in the Animal Kingdom, where animals signal submission
> to the alpha leader, say, peeing all over in the case of wolves and
> dogs...
>
> So all these confusing laws of "as practical to the right as
> possible," only add to the submissive role of the cyclists before the
> alpha drivers, who claim the lion's share of the road (territorial
> claims) and leave the scraps to the lesser members of the pack.
>
Not in the U.S. Vehicular traffic always travels on the right. Even in busy
pedestrian areas and entrances to public buildings it makes sense to keep to
the right as per our custom. If you think it's submissive....well, go ahead
and drive your car or ride your bike as far to the left as you like. Maybe
it's a Darwin thing....keep right.....live longer.
jb
Tom Sherman °_°
> [...]
> For our friend from Wisconsin:
>
> 346.59 Minimum speed regulation. (2) The operator of a vehicle moving at a
> speed so slow as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic
> shall, if practicable, yield the roadway to an overtaking vehicle whenever
> the operator of the overtaking vehicle gives audible warning with a
> warning device and shall move at a reasonably increased speed or yield the
> roadway to overtaking vehicles when directed to do so by a traffic officer.
>
> (2)(a) Any person operating a bicycle or electric personal assistive
> mobility device upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at
> the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as
> close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb of the unobstructed
> traveled roadway, including operators who are riding 2 or more abreast
> where permitted under sub. (3).
>
> (3)(a) Persons riding bicycles or electric personal assistive mobility
> devices upon a roadway may ride 2 abreast if such operation does not
> impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. Bicycle or electric
> personal assistive mobility device operators riding 2 abreast on a 2-lane
> or more roadway shall ride within a single lane.
>
>
>
> Wow. I guess they really frown upon riding two abreast, esp if it "impedes
> the normal flow of traffic", and really, really urge keeping as far right
> as possible.
>
> Now end this stupid thread and ride like responsible bicyclists.
>
>
to say: <http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/vehicle/bicycle/rules.htm>!
They suggest cyclists ride AT LEAST 3 feet out from the curb or parked
cars, ride in the CENTER of lanes too narrow to share, and to "take the
lane". None of your cowering in the gutter like an inferior vehicle!
[1] A gdanielsism.
Tom Sherman °_°
> [...]I like cars more than bikes.[...]
You have made that abundantly clear.
Tom Sherman °_°
maneuver.
W H O O S H !
Your Supra is no match for a 10+ ton farm implement in a crash.
>>> If you really want to *push* the "just as much right as you do", on a
>>> blind corner, in the middle of the lane, 30 MPH under the speed limit,
>>> then I hope you make a good hood ornament. And if there's one thing that
>>> REALLY pisses me off, it's whatever there was of some moron's brain
>>> splattered on my windshield.
>>>
>>> Grow up.
>>>
>> Your post shows a complete lack of maturity, and frustrated aggression.
>> Behind the wheel is not the place to take it out in a civilized society
>> (neither is Usenet for that matter).
>
> I waould say that's almost spot on. Maturity? Maybe, but I know enough to
> stay the hell out of the way of motor vehicles.
>
Ah, the cyclist inferiority, might makes right attitude. So I am free to
run your Supra over at a 4-way stop when I am driving a TopKick?
> Frustrated aggression? Yeah, I'd say that's accurate, when there's some
> mindless twit riding where they reall shouldn't be, for no other reason
> than "Because I can, so there!"
>
Dude, get some counseling if you are using driving on public roads to
take out your aggression, before you murder someone.
>
>>
>>>>> I have always learned to avoid a head-on collision. So, it's a good
>>>>> thing I maintain my brakes well.
>>>>>
>>>>> To make a long story short, stay the hell where you're supposed to be.
>>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, you are unclear on that topic.
>>> I have no problem. Push the issue, in the middle of the lane, on a blind
>>> corner, doing 30 MPH under the speed limit, with another car coming in
>>> the opposite direction, and maybe the next time it will be someone with
>>> a brake line just waiting for a sudden jump on the pedal before it
>>> splits and sprays brake fluid all over the road.
>>>
>>> One of two things is going to happen. If it's someone like me, your ass
>>> is in the gutter, where it probably belongs, or you've just caused a
>>> head-on collision by being an arrogant ass.
>>>
>> I see you have no respect for rightful users of the road. Duly noted.
>
> Bicyclists are the only 'rightful users'?
>
>>> You are one of the prime examples why there should be bicycle licenses.
>>> In Mass you are supposed to be riding on the right, as far to the right
>>> as you can go. NOT in the middle of the road. So, if you want to speak
>>> in terms of legalalities, there you go. Keep your ass out of the middle
>>> of the road.
>>>
>> The Massachusetts legislature erred in passing anti-cyclist measures.
>>
>>>>> BTW, the dumb biotch on the bike gave *ME* a dirty look. I almost
>>>>> backed over her after that.
>>>>>
>> Nice gender slur there, by the way.
>
> Has nothing to do with gender. Has to do with being a bitch.
>
Unless you are referring to canines, it is a gender slur.
>>>>> If there's one thing I really hate, it's cleaning the blood off my
>>>>> Supra.
>>>>>
>>>> You would have been morally guilty of vehicular battery if you had hit
>>>> her, intentionally OR unintentionally. Take your Supra to the race
>>>> track if you want to drive that way.
>>>
>>> Keep your bike out of the middle of the road like Moms tell their 5 year
>>> olds and we'll all be just fine, won't we?
>>>
>> Moms also tell their 5 year olds to ride the wrong way, on the sidewalk,
>> etc which is not appropriate for an adult vehicular cyclist.
>>
>>> Morally guilty? You don't know me very well. If it's me or some arrogant
>>> ass in the middle of the road where they shouldn't be, Bye Bye!
>>>
>> Your anti-social nature has been made perfectly clear.
>
> LOL! You're not a very good judge.
>
Reading comprehension -> fail.
I almost always skip over Comandante Banana/King of the Apes/Don
Quixote1954's posts. This one was no exception.
>> Please offer something better than bellowing machismo in your next post.
>
>
> Please offer som semblance of Common Sense.
What does Tom Paine have to do with this?
Hachiroku
> Hachiroku ハチロク who? anonymously snipes:
>> [...]I like cars more than bikes.[...]
>
> You have made that abundantly clear.
At least I know how to follow the laws when riding a bicycle and not
become a nuisance.
Common sense kind of helps, too. Maybe you like arguing with 3,000 lb
pieces of steel; I'll 'submit'.
ComandanteBanana
Originally Posted by Chris516
To 'share the road'/'share the lane', in the original contcept of that
notion, means inviting yourself to be roadkill, by a driver who
doesn't care and/or, is ignorant about concept.
I 'take the lane' AT ALL TIMES.
Because, It is fatally impractical, the way drivers want cyclists to
'share the road'.
Today a driver yelled at me from his car, as he passed by me. He told
me to get on the sidewalk. Sorry to disappointment the jerk. But, That
is potentially fatal.
***
Good, you ARE in the revolution then.
Just make sure to name the revolution by name... ;)
Hachiroku
>
> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
>> On Tue, 15 Sep 2009 23:57:16 -0500, Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>
>>> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
>>> news:pan.2009.09.16...@e86.GTS... [...]
>>>> I'd just run it over, like someone did with the dead cat I saw this
>>>> morning. *I* picked it up, put it in my sack and had a hearty
>>>> breakfast, and then some nice soup. I needed some new guitar strings,
>>>> too...
>>>
>>> This reference to treating cats disrespectfully is riling Ed Dolan the
>>> Great as well as Saint Edward the Great. If I were this Hachiroku
>>> character, I would not reference dead cats ever again.
>>>
>>> Anyone know what oriental tribe he belongs to based on the chicken
>>> scratch following his name?
>>
>> Fear not Sir Edward, it was merely an attempt at sick humor, the type for
>> which I am best known.
>>
>> I use steel strings and don't care for soup.
>>
>> I have never killed a cat, eith purposely or accidently. Maybe one or two
>> has had one of it's lives used up, but again, not on purpose.
>
> Some members of these newsgroups think it is a fun thing to run over cats in
> their fucking cars. I believe if I ever saw anyone do this I would have to
> kill them. I mean how else could I ever live with myself.
Not me. I had to put an older cat that adopted me (yes, she adopted me,
and was a nice kitty) "away" after a year because she got so sick, and I
didn't want to do it, but we just couldn't find out what was wrong with
her. We tried a lot of stuff, but she was ~14, a stray, had only a few
teeth and was in bad shape. She had one good year, anyway.
>
>> And the chicken scratch? Hachi roku. 86. I like cars more than bikes.
>
> Well, I am guessing then that you are Japanese. As long as you not descended
> from Genghis Khan, the Mongol, we can at least converse without wanting to
> murder one another.
> [...]
Nope. Western Mass, German, French and Italian born right here.
I like Japanese cars, and the best car I ever owned was an '85 Corolla
GTS. Still sits in my back yard, waiting to be restored to it's former
self.
We won't open the can of worms about who makes the best cars in the
world... ;p
Hachiroku
Yeah, I saw that. Contradictory at best. I think what they mean is when
you're riding in a town or city, stay 3 feet out to avoid being clobbered
by a door (what did they call it? Door surprise, or something like that?)
And I don't think I ever said anything about cowering in the gutter. But
it just kinda make sense, when a vehicle weighing 2 tons is approaching
you at 30 MPH faster that you kinda get out of the way. The person I'm
referring to made absolutely no effort to move to the side at all.
On another day, on a stretch of road marked 55 there was some guy riding a
recumbant at about 10 MPH 1 foot to the right of the yellow divider.
That's plenty smart.
>
> [1] A gdanielsism.
ComandanteBanana
> > You would have been morally guilty of vehicular battery if you had hit
> > her, intentionally OR unintentionally. Take your Supra to the race track
> > if you want to drive that way.
>
> Keep your bike out of the middle of the road like Moms tell their 5 year
> olds and we'll all be just fine, won't we?
Simple logic tells me that: Single lane roads should be ridden on the
right/left edge, multiple lanes should be ridden on the right/left
lane (ie. TAKE THE LANE).
Hachiroku
>
> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
> [...]
>> Wow. I guess they really frown upon riding two abreast, esp if it "impedes
>> the normal flow of traffic", and really, really urge keeping as far right
>> as possible.
>>
>> Now end this stupid thread and ride like responsible bicyclists.
>
> I am with Hachiroku that cyclists should never impede the flow of motor
> vehicle traffic. It is insane to do so and could well get you killed.
Thanks for the vote of confidence!
>
> But my beef with Hachiroku is his disrespect for dead cats, displayed in
> another message to these honorable newsgroups. He should be damn careful
> what he has to say about cats, dead or living!
Unfortunately, it happens. Funny thing is, I am generally a dog lover, so
what happens? I get adopted by a cat! She was a good kitty but had
something wrong with her and had to be, uh, 'let go'. Humanely, of course.
No soup, no guitar strings...
Hachiroku
Wow, someone with a succinct, intelligaent non-arrogant answer!
There is hope after all...
ComandanteBanana
If this cyclist is riding "as practical to the edge as possible," then
he has a greater chance of becoming a road kill after a blind curve.
The best place to be visible is the middle.
ComandanteBanana
> "ComandanteBanana" <nolionnoprob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Riding the right doesn't have to be riding so close to the edge as to
put you in a dangerous place between a rock and a hard place.
Unsubmissive behavior would mean TAKING THE LANE.
ComandanteBanana
There are many situations where it's not necessary or safe to take the
lane. You're only judging by your own typical riding situations.
***
Maybe he stays away from the top dogs' territory. I'd say, 70% of the
roads around me merit... staying away from them.
I rode one today, the same place where I was attacked over the
techinicallity of riding a bridge where the posted sign says to walk
my bike. What can I say, "I'm happy to be alive!"
ComandanteBanana
Cars impede on our space, and I've seen many an uber biker taking the
lane with a clean 3ft shoulder available. It's not so much car drivers
that suck, it's people.
***
It's whatever gives more power to people, and that's usually the armor
around them.
As a driver, I don't worry about being slowed down by a cyclist TAKING
THE LANE if I have another lane to pass him.
As a cyclist, I'm extremely concerned over alpha SUVs getting into my
space.
Just this morning, this SUV coming next to me slow and dangerous, I
look over ("Stay Calm & Assertive" as per Dog Whisperer's advice) and
he leaves me alone.
Just like the shark that checks you out and decides he ain't that
hungry. ;)
ComandanteBanana
Slower traffic keep to the right (or left in some jurisdictions) when
safe and feasible is a universal rule of the road that applies to all
vehicles. No need for redundant, minority-specific rules that lead to
preferred treatment of one vehicle class over another.
***
That law is totally ignored in America where vehicles speed in
whatever lane they feel like it. Perhaps if the average speed on our
right lanes were closer to 20 mph than 40 mph, taking the lane or not
wouldn't be as much of an issue.
Yes, I would give preferred treatment to those I want to protect from
the predators... or let the Law of the Jungle run its course.
Judith M Smith
<cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
>news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
>
>> I've been riding bikes and motorcycles since I was 5 years old.
>> I've had bicycle and motorcycle safety classes.
>
>And bizarrely have failed to learn anything about cycling safely. You're a
>clueless twat.
Don't you just love it - someone else has a different point of view
and he immediately becomes a "clueless twat".
Have you ever considered that the regular cyclists who post here may
not perhaps be typical of cyclists at large.
I think you will find that *normal* cyclists do not use your "primary"
position - they keep to the left and respect other road users.
This of course must mean that they are "clueless twats".
--
"Primary position" the middle of a traffic lane. To take the "primary position" : to ride a bike in the middle of the lane in order to obstruct other road vehicles from overtaking.
A term invented by and used by psycholists and not recognised in the Highway Code.
Highway Code Rule 168 : "Never obstruct drivers who wish to pass."
Clive George
news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
> Yeah, I saw that. Contradictory at best. I think what they mean is when
> you're riding in a town or city, stay 3 feet out to avoid being clobbered
> by a door (what did they call it? Door surprise, or something like that?)
Thing is, it ain't just about getting doored. I know it might be hard to
believe, but you're actually safer putting yourself in the way of the cars.
Drivers are pretty good at avoiding what they can see and consider
important. If you're in the way, they can see you and you're important. If
you're not in the way, cowering in the gutter/shoulder/whatever, you may as
well be invisible - you're not featuring in the driver's list of things to
consider. Which means when something bad does happen - one of you swerves
for a pothole, something like that, things get messt.
Yes, it's counterintuitive. Yes, I know you probably won't accept it. But
it's the truth, learned by many experienced cyclists, and written in
advanced bike riding manuals.
There are also advanced car driving manuals and courses and such like - they
teach other useful things like don't drive beyond the limits of what you can
see...
RudiL
> Have you ever considered that the regular cyclists who post here may
> not perhaps be typical of cyclists at large.
>
> I think you will find that *normal* cyclists do not use your "primary"
> position - they keep to the left and respect other road users.
>
And as a result have a much higher chance of being killed or
injured ...
Judith's idea of "respect" seems to mean "live in fear of" or "give
way at all times no matter that you are entitled to be on the road"
Rudi
ComandanteBanana
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Japanese cars are junk. Better adopt German cars and bike facilities.
Yes, speed and bikes can coexist... just not at the same place.
Tell me a Japanese car that is more fun than a VW GTI. ;)
ComandanteBanana
> Yeah, I saw that. Contradictory at best. I think what they mean is when
> you're riding in a town or city, stay 3 feet out to avoid being clobbered
> by a door (what did they call it? Door surprise, or something like that?)
>
> And I don't think I ever said anything about cowering in the gutter. But
> it just kinda make sense, when a vehicle weighing 2 tons is approaching
> you at 30 MPH faster that you kinda get out of the way. The person I'm
> referring to made absolutely no effort to move to the side at all.
>
It sounds like he was an alpha cyclist. What do you suggest to do with
them?
Let the Law of the Jungle take its course?
ComandanteBanana
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 05:02:21 +0100, "Clive George"
>
> <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
> >news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
>
> >> I've been riding bikes and motorcycles since I was 5 years old.
> >> I've had bicycle and motorcycle safety classes.
>
> >And bizarrely have failed to learn anything about cycling safely. You're a
> >clueless twat.
>
> Don't you just love it - someone else has a different point of view
> and he immediately becomes a "clueless twat".
>
> Have you ever considered that the regular cyclists who post here may
> not perhaps be typical of cyclists at large.
I think the typical cyclist at large is one that rides a Huffy on a
sidewalk.
No, I don't think they bother about these forums. ;)
ComandanteBanana
And that amounts to... SUBMISSIVE BEHAVIOR and --maybe-- peeing all
over the place.
ComandanteBanana
Yes, it makes sense, but then you MUST be an alpha cyclist to hold
your ground.
In other words, you will get a lot of barking from alpha drivers.
mileburner
"RudiL" <rudi...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4173a6d9-553d-4ca1...@m11g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On 16 Sep, 16:54, Judith M Smith <judithmsm...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I think you will find that *normal* cyclists do not use your "primary"
>> position - they keep to the left and respect other road users.
>>
> And as a result have a much higher chance of being killed or
> injured ...
Which is why cycling *can* be dangerous...
> Judith's idea of "respect" seems to mean "live in fear of" or "give
> way at all times no matter that you are entitled to be on the road"
Interesting! I tend to "respect" traffic and other road users in the sense
that if you do daft things like ride on the edge and let them pass when it
is unsafe to do so then they will possibly ignore you.
AMuzi
-snip-
Edward Dolan wrote:
-snip
> Well, I am guessing then that you are Japanese.
coffee on keyboard for that one
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Hachiroku ハチロク
> (I answer at bottom)
>
> Originally Posted by Chris516
> To 'share the road'/'share the lane', in the original contcept of that
> notion, means inviting yourself to be roadkill, by a driver who doesn't
> care and/or, is ignorant about concept.
>
> I 'take the lane' AT ALL TIMES.
Then suffer the consequences, jackass.
Most states in the US have laws saying slower moving traffic will yield to
faster moving traffic. I can see you just don't really care.
Tell us where to send the flowers.
>
> Because, It is fatally impractical, the way drivers want cyclists to
> 'share the road'.
>
> Today a driver yelled at me from his car, as he passed by me. He told me
> to get on the sidewalk. Sorry to disappointment the jerk. But, That is
> potentially fatal.
Huh? You'll have to explain to me how getting out of the middle of the
road and onto the sidewalk is 'potentially fatal'.
Hachiroku ハチロク
I take back what I said in my last post. You should have made this clearer
in your original post! This I can agree with, and certainly, if it is
multiple lanes in the same direction, and it is safe to do so, by all
means, I will gladly pass you!
However, there is a stretch of road in Keene NH that has two lanes in one
direction with a 40 MPH speed limit, and a very large 'breakdown lane'
(about 3 feet, at least) and I saw someone in afternoon traffic in the
middle of the right hand lane. An 18 wheeler was trying to take the right
lane, and the cyclist refused to move. I could tell by the look on
the driver's face he wanted to crunch the cycle under as many wheels as he
could.
Hachiroku ハチロク
Better to be blocking traffic? Block head.
Not at all.
>
> Your Supra is no match for a 10+ ton farm implement in a crash.
>
>>>> If you really want to *push* the "just as much right as you do", on a
>>>> blind corner, in the middle of the lane, 30 MPH under the speed limit,
>>>> then I hope you make a good hood ornament. And if there's one thing
>>>> that REALLY pisses me off, it's whatever there was of some moron's
>>>> brain splattered on my windshield.
>>>>
>>>> Grow up.
>>>>
>>> Your post shows a complete lack of maturity, and frustrated aggression.
>>> Behind the wheel is not the place to take it out in a civilized society
>>> (neither is Usenet for that matter).
>>
>> I waould say that's almost spot on. Maturity? Maybe, but I know enough
>> to stay the hell out of the way of motor vehicles.
>>
> Ah, the cyclist inferiority, might makes right attitude. So I am free to
> run your Supra over at a 4-way stop when I am driving a TopKick?
Huh? Why? If I'm legally STOPPED, you have no right to go.
That was just a jackass statement on your part. But, I'm beginning to
expect those.
>
>> Frustrated aggression? Yeah, I'd say that's accurate, when there's some
>> mindless twit riding where they reall shouldn't be, for no other reason
>> than "Because I can, so there!"
>>
> Dude, get some counseling if you are using driving on public roads to take
> out your aggression, before you murder someone.
Stay out of the middle of the road if you can't equal the speed limit.
>>
>>
>>>>>> I have always learned to avoid a head-on collision. So, it's a good
>>>>>> thing I maintain my brakes well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To make a long story short, stay the hell where you're supposed to
>>>>>> be.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately, you are unclear on that topic.
>>>> I have no problem. Push the issue, in the middle of the lane, on a
>>>> blind corner, doing 30 MPH under the speed limit, with another car
>>>> coming in the opposite direction, and maybe the next time it will be
>>>> someone with a brake line just waiting for a sudden jump on the pedal
>>>> before it splits and sprays brake fluid all over the road.
>>>>
>>>> One of two things is going to happen. If it's someone like me, your
>>>> ass is in the gutter, where it probably belongs, or you've just caused
>>>> a head-on collision by being an arrogant ass.
>>>>
>>> I see you have no respect for rightful users of the road. Duly noted.
>>
>> Bicyclists are the only 'rightful users'?
>>
>>>> You are one of the prime examples why there should be bicycle
>>>> licenses. In Mass you are supposed to be riding on the right, as far
>>>> to the right as you can go. NOT in the middle of the road. So, if you
>>>> want to speak in terms of legalalities, there you go. Keep your ass
>>>> out of the middle of the road.
>>>>
>>> The Massachusetts legislature erred in passing anti-cyclist measures.
They also spend millions creating bicycle trails, very nice, well paved
well maintained bicycle routes.
I would suggest someone with your lack of consideration should use as many
of those as possible.
>>>
>>>>>> BTW, the dumb biotch on the bike gave *ME* a dirty look. I almost
>>>>>> backed over her after that.
>>>>>>
>>> Nice gender slur there, by the way.
>>
>> Has nothing to do with gender. Has to do with being a bitch.
>>
> Unless you are referring to canines, it is a gender slur.
Boo hoo. Not losing any sleep here.
>
>>>>>> If there's one thing I really hate, it's cleaning the blood off my
>>>>>> Supra.
>>>>>>
>>>>> You would have been morally guilty of vehicular battery if you had
>>>>> hit her, intentionally OR unintentionally. Take your Supra to the
>>>>> race track if you want to drive that way.
>>>>
>>>> Keep your bike out of the middle of the road like Moms tell their 5
>>>> year olds and we'll all be just fine, won't we?
>>>>
>>> Moms also tell their 5 year olds to ride the wrong way, on the
>>> sidewalk, etc which is not appropriate for an adult vehicular cyclist.
>>>
>>>> Morally guilty? You don't know me very well. If it's me or some
>>>> arrogant ass in the middle of the road where they shouldn't be, Bye
>>>> Bye!
>>>>
>>> Your anti-social nature has been made perfectly clear.
>>
>> LOL! You're not a very good judge.
>>
> Reading comprehension -> fail.
Same type thing as "usenet tough guy".
You should listen to him. He clarified his original position to one that
reflects good practices and common sense. Your position will only result
in dead cyclists.
>
>>> Please offer something better than bellowing machismo in your next
>>> post.
>>
>>
>> Please offer som semblance of Common Sense.
>
> What does Tom Paine have to do with this?
Look it up and then reply.
Hachiroku ハチロク
> Originally Posted by High Roller
> Slower traffic keep to the right (or left in some jurisdictions) when safe
> and feasible is a universal rule of the road that applies to all vehicles.
> No need for redundant, minority-specific rules that lead to preferred
> treatment of one vehicle class over another.
>
> ***
>
> That law is totally ignored in America where vehicles speed in whatever
> lane they feel like it. Perhaps if the average speed on our right lanes
> were closer to 20 mph than 40 mph, taking the lane or not wouldn't be as
> much of an issue.
Not entirely. I like to drive fast, yes. Not REALLY fast, unless I have a
clear view and traffic permits (or, rather, lack of traffic...)
My buddy Tom lost sight of the fact that I *DO* yield for cyclists. Often.
However, the one incident involved two people riding side by side on a
back road with only one lane in each direction, and the woman almost out
to the yellow line. Ol' TomTom seems to think that's just fine.
I wonder if he likes pine or would rather have a better wood.
Hachiroku ハチロク
OOOoooooooHHHHhhhh!
If they would make a Japanese car with German steel and engineering, you'd
have on HELL of a car!
>
> Yes, speed and bikes can coexist... just not at the same place.
>
> Tell me a Japanese car that is more fun than a VW GTI. ;)
Yup!
Got sick of repairing my GLi and bought one of these:
http://www.dragtimes.com/images/5319-1985-Toyota-Corolla.jpg
Didn't handle quite as well as the GLi and was a little lower on
horsepower, but also ran with no problems for 20 years.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote
> -snip-
> Edward Dolan wrote:
> -snip
>> Well, I am guessing then that you are Japanese.
> -snip-
>
>
> coffee on keyboard for that one
But, you know better...
Edward Dolan
"Hachiroku" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 00:41:04 -0500, Edward Dolan wrote:
>> Well, I am guessing then that you are Japanese. As long as you not
>> descended
>> from Genghis Khan, the Mongol, we can at least converse without wanting
>> to
>> murder one another.
>> [...]
>
Here we have someone who does not know who or what he is. With a name like
Hachiroku, you are an oriental. Please look into a mirror if you have one
handy and take note of your racial characteristics. It does not matter where
you were born but only where your ancestors came from.
The only pertinent question at this point is were your ancestors Mongols
from the steppes of Central Asia? If so, there is a good chance you are
related to Genghis Khan. He seems to have fathered 90% of the present day
inhabitants of that wretched region of the earth.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>>> I've been riding bikes and motorcycles since I was 5 years old. I've
>>> had bicycle and motorcycle safety classes.
>>
>>And bizarrely have failed to learn anything about cycling safely. You're
>>a clueless twat.
>
>
> Don't you just love it - someone else has a different point of view and he
> immediately becomes a "clueless twat".
>
> Have you ever considered that the regular cyclists who post here may not
> perhaps be typical of cyclists at large.
>
> I think you will find that *normal* cyclists do not use your "primary"
> position - they keep to the left and respect other road users.
>
> This of course must mean that they are "clueless twats".
LEFT?!?! Oh, never mind... ;)
You and I would get along just fine...
The only thing I can figure is these guys must have been frightened by
hedgehogs at a very early age and would rather be mowed down than have
another confrontation...
Hachiroku ハチロク
Sounds a might better than being in a middle of the road when 2 tons of
steel comes around the corner at 45 MPH...
What's so tough about staying on the side of the road?
I do it all the time.
I like to drive fast. I don't like to drive crazy.
There are plenty that DO like to drive crazy.
If you want to put your life in their hands, be my guest.
Either way the explaination will be, "Gee, office, I was driving along at
the speed limit, came around the corner and there he was in the middle of
the lane! There was a car coming in the other direction and I had no place
to go!"
At least if you're on the right (left), I can make an ATTEMPT to avoid
hitting you.
Press your 'right', fool.
Hachiroku ハチロク
Wring his neck for stupidity?
>
> Let the Law of the Jungle take its course?
Ah, yes, Darwinism. There's a reason someone invented the Darwin Award.
Edward Dolan
"Judith M Smith" <judith...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
news:n922b559u06899p70...@4ax.com...
[...]
> Don't you just love it - someone else has a different point of view
> and he immediately becomes a "clueless twat".
>
> Have you ever considered that the regular cyclists who post here may
> not perhaps be typical of cyclists at large.
For heaven's sakes, I should hope not! Regular cyclists who do not post to
the cycling newsgroups are worse than clueless twats, they are beyond the
fringe. I urge Judith to read my over 12,000 posts in order to get a clue
herself. After she has discovered My Greatness, then perhaps we can have a
talk about how dumb everyone in the world is except for Ed Dolan the Great.
Hachiroku ハチロク
> "Hachiroku" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
>
>> Yeah, I saw that. Contradictory at best. I think what they mean is when
>> you're riding in a town or city, stay 3 feet out to avoid being
>> clobbered by a door (what did they call it? Door surprise, or something
>> like that?)
>
> Thing is, it ain't just about getting doored. I know it might be hard to
> believe, but you're actually safer putting yourself in the way of the
> cars. Drivers are pretty good at avoiding what they can see
AHA! This is the point of my arguement! The person I almost clobbered
wasn't in a position to be seen! I don't even know myslef how I avoided
hitting her. Proper brake maintenance? Good thing. If I had faulty brakes
she'd be in a pine box now.
Maybe that's a risk her and Tom want to take, not me. And there are a lot
of ricers around here that drive faster than I do, probably while on a
cell phone at the same time. I don't know about you, but I'll keep my life
in my own hands, thanks.
Thre is a bike trail about 1.5 miles from my house. This discussion is
making me think a great deal about using it frequently. Thanks.
Edward Dolan
"ComandanteBanana" <nolionn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c70cf1a0-6c26-4cb6...@f33g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
Well, I will piss on your grave after you have been killed by an irate
motorist because like an idiot you took the lane instead of the sidewalk.
And it will serve you right too! I've got a bladder that won't quit,
especially after I have had my usual gallon of Livingston Cellars Red Rose.
Judith M Smith
wrote:
As far as I can remember, I have never actually seen a cyclist riding
in the "primary" position.
I suspect that it is not as common as you would like to believe.
Tom Sherman °_°
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:52:55 -0500, Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku ハチロク who? wrote:
>>> [...]
>>> For our friend from Wisconsin:
>>>
>>> 346.59 Minimum speed regulation. (2) The operator of a vehicle moving at a
>>> speed so slow as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic
>>> shall, if practicable, yield the roadway to an overtaking vehicle whenever
>>> the operator of the overtaking vehicle gives audible warning with a
>>> warning device and shall move at a reasonably increased speed or yield the
>>> roadway to overtaking vehicles when directed to do so by a traffic officer.
>>>
>>> (2)(a) Any person operating a bicycle or electric personal assistive
>>> mobility device upon a roadway at less than the normal speed of traffic at
>>> the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall ride as
>>> close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb of the unobstructed
>>> traveled roadway, including operators who are riding 2 or more abreast
>>> where permitted under sub. (3).
>>>
>>> (3)(a) Persons riding bicycles or electric personal assistive mobility
>>> devices upon a roadway may ride 2 abreast if such operation does not
>>> impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. Bicycle or electric
>>> personal assistive mobility device operators riding 2 abreast on a 2-lane
>>> or more roadway shall ride within a single lane.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wow. I guess they really frown upon riding two abreast, esp if it "impedes
>>> the normal flow of traffic", and really, really urge keeping as far right
>>> as possible.
>>>
>>> Now end this stupid thread and ride like responsible bicyclists.
>>>
>>>
>> butbutbut[1], look what the Wisconsin Department of Transportation has
>> to say: <http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/vehicle/bicycle/rules.htm>!
>>
>> They suggest cyclists ride AT LEAST 3 feet out from the curb or parked
>> cars, ride in the CENTER of lanes too narrow to share, and to "take the
>> lane". None of your cowering in the gutter like an inferior vehicle!
>
>
> Yeah, I saw that. Contradictory at best. I think what they mean is when
> you're riding in a town or city, stay 3 feet out to avoid being clobbered
> by a door (what did they call it? Door surprise, or something like that?)
>
> it just kinda make sense, when a vehicle weighing 2 tons is approaching
> you at 30 MPH faster that you kinda get out of the way. The person I'm
> referring to made absolutely no effort to move to the side at all.
>
right to the public roads? Your whole approach is motorist superiority,
which is neither the legal or moral case in civilized society.
> On another day, on a stretch of road marked 55 there was some guy riding a
> recumbant at about 10 MPH 1 foot to the right of the yellow divider.
> That's plenty smart.
>
What is a "recumbant" (sic)?
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
ComandanteBanana
> Got sick of repairing my GLi and bought one of these:
>
> http://www.dragtimes.com/images/5319-1985-Toyota-Corolla.jpg
>
> Didn't handle quite as well as the GLi and was a little lower on
> horsepower, but also ran with no problems for 20 years.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The best of both worlds, huh?
I couldn't open the link. The new 6 cyl VWs must be a blast in the
Autobahn, if only once before I die.
Tom Sherman °_°
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:04:11 +0100, Clive George wrote:
>
>> "Hachiroku" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
>>
>>> Yeah, I saw that. Contradictory at best. I think what they mean is when
>>> you're riding in a town or city, stay 3 feet out to avoid being
>>> clobbered by a door (what did they call it? Door surprise, or something
>>> like that?)
>> Thing is, it ain't just about getting doored. I know it might be hard to
>> believe, but you're actually safer putting yourself in the way of the
>> cars. Drivers are pretty good at avoiding what they can see
>
> AHA! This is the point of my arguement! The person I almost clobbered
> wasn't in a position to be seen! I don't even know myslef how I avoided
> hitting her. Proper brake maintenance? Good thing. If I had faulty brakes
> she'd be in a pine box now.
>
If she was riding in the roadway, she was in a position to be seen. I
know this concept is hard for you, but you should never drive so your
braking distance exceeds your sight distance while on a public road.
Doing so is as irresponsible and immoral as discharging a firearm at
random in a populated area.
What if instead of a cyclist, it had been a tree fallen across the road?
You would be in a hospital, and your Supra would be in the recycling
yard. Same if it had been a tractor pulling a manure spreader, an end
loader, etc.
> Maybe that's a risk her and Tom want to take, not me. And there are a lot
> of ricers around here that drive faster than I do, probably while on a
> cell phone at the same time. I don't know about you, but I'll keep my life
> in my own hands, thanks.
>
So you base your behavior off of what the criminally negligent do?
> Thre is a bike trail about 1.5 miles from my house. This discussion is
> making me think a great deal about using it frequently. Thanks.
>
And where that trail intersects with a roadway, you could get run over
at the crossing by someone like yourself who is driving too fast for
conditions.
ComandanteBanana
>
> - Show quoted text -
I have learned to drive slow and stupid like most drivers out there --
in a boring older Lexus-- and I can tell it's the most relaxing thing
out there, almost boring.
When I used to drive fast in VWs, I'd get into a lot of conflict with
bigger cars and people on the phone driving painfully slow.
Tom Sherman °_°
> "Hachiroku" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:pan.2009.09.16....@e86.GTS...
>> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 00:41:04 -0500, Edward Dolan wrote:
> [...]
>>> Well, I am guessing then that you are Japanese. As long as you not
>>> descended
>>> from Genghis Khan, the Mongol, we can at least converse without wanting
>>> to
>>> murder one another.
>>> [...]
>> Nope. Western Mass, German, French and Italian born right here.[...]
>
> Here we have someone who does not know who or what he is. With a name like
> Hachiroku, you are an oriental. Please look into a mirror if you have one
> handy and take note of your racial characteristics. It does not matter where
> you were born but only where your ancestors came from.
>
> The only pertinent question at this point is were your ancestors Mongols
> from the steppes of Central Asia? If so, there is a good chance you are
> related to Genghis Khan. He seems to have fathered 90% of the present day
> inhabitants of that wretched region of the earth.
>
The "Hachiroku" name is a pseudonym after an automobile, just like
"Johnny NoCom" is a pseudonym after a bicycle.
ComandanteBanana
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:10:27 -0700 (PDT), RudiL <rudilu...@gmail.com>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Taking the lane means do what you gotta do to be seen and have
respect. But it doesn't mean riding two abreast on single lane roads.
Riding on a winding road I think is inviting trouble, unless it's
necessary. Maybe these "special case" roads do need bike lanes/paths.
Tom Sherman °_°
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:33:42 -0700, ComandanteBanana wrote:
>
>> Originally Posted by High Roller
>> Slower traffic keep to the right (or left in some jurisdictions) when safe
>> and feasible is a universal rule of the road that applies to all vehicles.
>> No need for redundant, minority-specific rules that lead to preferred
>> treatment of one vehicle class over another.
>>
>> ***
>>
>> That law is totally ignored in America where vehicles speed in whatever
>> lane they feel like it. Perhaps if the average speed on our right lanes
>> were closer to 20 mph than 40 mph, taking the lane or not wouldn't be as
>> much of an issue.
>
> Not entirely. I like to drive fast, yes. Not REALLY fast, unless I have a
> clear view and traffic permits (or, rather, lack of traffic...)
>
> My buddy Tom lost sight of the fact that I *DO* yield for cyclists. Often.
> However, the one incident involved two people riding side by side on a
> back road with only one lane in each direction, and the woman almost out
> to the yellow line. Ol' TomTom seems to think that's just fine.
>
They should return to single file, WHEN it is safe for you to pass.
> I wonder if he likes pine or would rather have a better wood.
>
<http://reviews.cnet.com/sc/9516932-2-200-0.gif> to
<http://www.prijatelji-zivotinja.hr/data/image_3_4357.jpg> to
<http://radiantpethealth.com/dog_eating.jpg>.
Tom Sherman °_°
not safely pass otherwise.
See comment directly below.
>> Your Supra is no match for a 10+ ton farm implement in a crash.
>>
>>>>> If you really want to *push* the "just as much right as you do", on a
>>>>> blind corner, in the middle of the lane, 30 MPH under the speed limit,
>>>>> then I hope you make a good hood ornament. And if there's one thing
>>>>> that REALLY pisses me off, it's whatever there was of some moron's
>>>>> brain splattered on my windshield.
>>>>>
>>>>> Grow up.
>>>>>
>>>> Your post shows a complete lack of maturity, and frustrated aggression.
>>>> Behind the wheel is not the place to take it out in a civilized society
>>>> (neither is Usenet for that matter).
>>> I waould say that's almost spot on. Maturity? Maybe, but I know enough
>>> to stay the hell out of the way of motor vehicles.
>>>
>> Ah, the cyclist inferiority, might makes right attitude. So I am free to
>> run your Supra over at a 4-way stop when I am driving a TopKick?
>
> Huh? Why? If I'm legally STOPPED, you have no right to go.
> That was just a jackass statement on your part. But, I'm beginning to
> expect those.
>
No, if the smaller cyclist should "stay the hell out of the way" of your
Supra, then you should "stay the hell out of the way" of larger trucks.
Otherwise you are being inconsistent.
>>> Frustrated aggression? Yeah, I'd say that's accurate, when there's some
>>> mindless twit riding where they reall shouldn't be, for no other reason
>>> than "Because I can, so there!"
>>>
>> Dude, get some counseling if you are using driving on public roads to take
>> out your aggression, before you murder someone.
>
> Stay out of the middle of the road if you can't equal the speed limit.
>
Where is the moral basis for your contention?
Those are multi-use paths, or linear parks. They neither allow cycling
at speed, nor cycling more safely on the road.
>>>>>>> BTW, the dumb biotch on the bike gave *ME* a dirty look. I almost
>>>>>>> backed over her after that.
>>>>>>>
>>>> Nice gender slur there, by the way.
>>> Has nothing to do with gender. Has to do with being a bitch.
>>>
>> Unless you are referring to canines, it is a gender slur.
>
> Boo hoo. Not losing any sleep here.
>
Trolls generally do not.
>>>>>>> If there's one thing I really hate, it's cleaning the blood off my
>>>>>>> Supra.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> You would have been morally guilty of vehicular battery if you had
>>>>>> hit her, intentionally OR unintentionally. Take your Supra to the
>>>>>> race track if you want to drive that way.
>>>>> Keep your bike out of the middle of the road like Moms tell their 5
>>>>> year olds and we'll all be just fine, won't we?
>>>>>
>>>> Moms also tell their 5 year olds to ride the wrong way, on the
>>>> sidewalk, etc which is not appropriate for an adult vehicular cyclist.
>>>>
>>>>> Morally guilty? You don't know me very well. If it's me or some
>>>>> arrogant ass in the middle of the road where they shouldn't be, Bye
>>>>> Bye!
>>>>>
>>>> Your anti-social nature has been made perfectly clear.
>>> LOL! You're not a very good judge.
>>>
>> Reading comprehension -> fail.
>
> Same type thing as "usenet tough guy".
>
So again, you are just trolling here?
The statistics say otherwise. But I suspect you are just here to troll.
>>>> Please offer something better than bellowing machismo in your next
>>>> post.
>>>
>>> Please offer som semblance of Common Sense.
>> What does Tom Paine have to do with this?
>
>
> Look it up and then reply.
>
So are you a troll, or just an incompetent and fearful cyclist?
Hachiroku ハチロク
>> You should listen to him. He clarified his original position to one that
>> reflects good practices and common sense. Your position will only result
>> in dead cyclists.
>>
> The statistics say otherwise. But I suspect you are just here to troll.
Cite?
I'm 'here' to get information about bicycle repair, if I ever need it.
Usually, I don't. But, then again, I'm not really a know-it-all, either.
But I do know the rules for sharing the road with cars. YOU want to argue
with 3,000 lbs of steel travelling twice as fast as you, be my guest.
I know people that would run you off the road if you actually practice
what you preach here.
And, I'm also wondering about who the 'troll' might be: someone describing
common sense, or someone defending and indefensible practice.
>
>>>>> Please offer something better than bellowing machismo in your next
>>>>> post.
>>>>
>>>> Please offer som semblance of Common Sense.
>>> What does Tom Paine have to do with this?
>>
>>
>> Look it up and then reply.
>>
> So are you a troll, or just an incompetent and fearful cyclist?
I am a very competent cyclist, with lots of miles and no accidents to
speak of. I used to ride on two of the highest volume roads in
Connecticut, and did so without being a nuisance or a hazard. NO ONE ever
had to jack on the brakes or leave the lane to avoid hitting me.
Fearful? Maybe. Better a live coward than a crippled jackass.
Hachiroku ハチロク
> Hachiroku ハチロク who? wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:33:42 -0700, ComandanteBanana wrote:
>>
>>> Originally Posted by High Roller
>>> Slower traffic keep to the right (or left in some jurisdictions) when
>>> safe and feasible is a universal rule of the road that applies to all
>>> vehicles. No need for redundant, minority-specific rules that lead to
>>> preferred treatment of one vehicle class over another.
>>>
>>> ***
>>>
>>> That law is totally ignored in America where vehicles speed in whatever
>>> lane they feel like it. Perhaps if the average speed on our right lanes
>>> were closer to 20 mph than 40 mph, taking the lane or not wouldn't be
>>> as much of an issue.
>>
>> Not entirely. I like to drive fast, yes. Not REALLY fast, unless I have
>> a clear view and traffic permits (or, rather, lack of traffic...)
>>
> If you have a clear view, seeing cyclists should not be a problem.
HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY THEY WERE RIDING LIKE THAT ON A BLIND CORNER?!?!?!?!
>
>> My buddy Tom lost sight of the fact that I *DO* yield for cyclists.
>> Often. However, the one incident involved two people riding side by side
>> on a back road with only one lane in each direction, and the woman
>> almost out to the yellow line. Ol' TomTom seems to think that's just
>> fine.
>>
> They should return to single file, WHEN it is safe for you to pass.
>
>> I wonder if he likes pine or would rather have a better wood.
>>
> <http://reviews.cnet.com/sc/9516932-2-200-0.gif> to
Keep riding like you're advocating, and that will probably be the first
thing used to get you off the roadway.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>> The only pertinent question at this point is were your ancestors Mongols
>> from the steppes of Central Asia? If so, there is a good chance you are
>> related to Genghis Khan. He seems to have fathered 90% of the present
>> day inhabitants of that wretched region of the earth.
>>
> Hey Ed,
>
> The "Hachiroku" name is a pseudonym after an automobile, just like "Johnny
> NoCom" is a pseudonym after a bicycle.
Yup. The best car ever made, the 1985 Corolla GTS.
There are faster.
There are more expensive.
There are cars with better 'specs'.
But when it comes to speed, handling, comfort and reliability, there
aren't many that come close at any price, at least prior to the
Nothingmobiles from 2000 onward.
Tom Sherman °_°
>
>>> You should listen to him. He clarified his original position to one that
>>> reflects good practices and common sense. Your position will only result
>>> in dead cyclists.
>>>
>> The statistics say otherwise. But I suspect you are just here to troll.
>
> Cite?
>
Car-bike collisions are 1/6th of fatalities, and only 7% of that subset
is from motorist overtaking.
> I'm 'here' to get information about bicycle repair, if I ever need it.
Not to judge by this discussion, you are not.
> Usually, I don't. But, then again, I'm not really a know-it-all, either.
We did need clarification on the last point.
> But I do know the rules for sharing the road with cars. YOU want to argue
> with 3,000 lbs of steel travelling twice as fast as you, be my guest.
>
> I know people that would run you off the road if you actually practice
> what you preach here.
>
Glad to hear you know murderous psychopaths. Do you approve of murder
over having to slow your vehicle for a few seconds?
> And, I'm also wondering about who the 'troll' might be: someone describing
> common sense, or someone defending and indefensible practice.
>
You are obviously completely ignorant of "vehicular cycling" and how it
actually works in the real world. Drop your motorist superiority
attitude and try to learn something.
>>>>>> Please offer something better than bellowing machismo in your next
>>>>>> post.
>>>>> Please offer som semblance of Common Sense.
>>>> What does Tom Paine have to do with this?
>>>
>>> Look it up and then reply.
>>>
>> So are you a troll, or just an incompetent and fearful cyclist?
>
> I am a very competent cyclist, with lots of miles and no accidents to
> speak of. I used to ride on two of the highest volume roads in
> Connecticut, and did so without being a nuisance or a hazard. NO ONE ever
> had to jack on the brakes or leave the lane to avoid hitting me.
>
"Jacking" the brakes implies an initial state of going to fast for
conditions or paying insufficient attention.
> Fearful? Maybe. Better a live coward than a crippled jackass.
>
More Internet machismo from an anonymous poster.
Tom Sherman °_°
>
>> Hachiroku ハチロク who? wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 08:33:42 -0700, ComandanteBanana wrote:
>>>
>>>> Originally Posted by High Roller
>>>> Slower traffic keep to the right (or left in some jurisdictions) when
>>>> safe and feasible is a universal rule of the road that applies to all
>>>> vehicles. No need for redundant, minority-specific rules that lead to
>>>> preferred treatment of one vehicle class over another.
>>>>
>>>> ***
>>>>
>>>> That law is totally ignored in America where vehicles speed in whatever
>>>> lane they feel like it. Perhaps if the average speed on our right lanes
>>>> were closer to 20 mph than 40 mph, taking the lane or not wouldn't be
>>>> as much of an issue.
>>> Not entirely. I like to drive fast, yes. Not REALLY fast, unless I have
>>> a clear view and traffic permits (or, rather, lack of traffic...)
>>>
>> If you have a clear view, seeing cyclists should not be a problem.
>
>
> HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY THEY WERE RIDING LIKE THAT ON A BLIND CORNER?!?!?!?!
THEN YOU WERE GOING TO FAST FOR CONDITIONS. DUH! DUH! DUH!
Clive George
news:pan.2009.09.16...@e86.GTS...
> HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY THEY WERE RIDING LIKE THAT ON A BLIND
> CORNER?!?!?!?!
Remind me why you were driving too fast for you to be able to stop in the
distance you could see.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>> And, I'm also wondering about who the 'troll' might be: someone
>> describing common sense, or someone defending and indefensible practice.
>>
> You are obviously completely ignorant of "vehicular cycling" and how it
> actually works in the real world. Drop your motorist superiority attitude
> and try to learn something.
Wow. I *AM* dealing with a K00K.
Ooooo...K!
Hachiroku ハチロク
Because the speed limit was 45?
In order to be driving slow enough "for you to be able to stop in the
distance you could see.", that would have been 15.
Whew!
I shouldn't have to explain this over and over and over again.
Let me say this: Stay to the extreme right or left, or whatever, and you
won't have a problem. Riding on the centerline is NOT acceptable.
Now, argue that. I'm positive you will.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>>> If you have a clear view, seeing cyclists should not be a problem.
>>
>>
>> HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY THEY WERE RIDING LIKE THAT ON A BLIND
>> CORNER?!?!?!?! [...]
>
> THEN YOU WERE GOING TO FAST FOR CONDITIONS. DUH! DUH! DUH!
I WAS DOING THE SPEED LIMIT...DUH DUH DUH.
Did you make this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5O8Yg47lXA
Clive George
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 23:56:00 +0100, Clive George wrote:
>
>> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
>> news:pan.2009.09.16...@e86.GTS...
>>
>>> HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY THEY WERE RIDING LIKE THAT ON A BLIND
>>> CORNER?!?!?!?!
>>
>> Remind me why you were driving too fast for you to be able to stop in the
>> distance you could see.
>
> Because the speed limit was 45?
I had this discussion with a lass complaining that two of her friends had
died. Speed limit was 60, they came off the corner, crashed into a canal and
drowned.
The lass in question said they were driving safely, because they weren't
exceeding the speed limit.
That's somebody who hasn't learned from the death of two of her friends that
the speed limit isn't the same as the safe speed to travel.
If she couldn't understand it with such a graphic example of why she was
wrong, I suspect you won't either.
Is there an advanced driving association over your side of the pond?
Somebody who can teach you how to drive safely while not dawdling along. If
there is, they've got a lot to teach you.
(BTW you managed to avoid the obvious answer, which is more than a little
dim of you)
Tom Sherman °_°
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:26:48 -0500, Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
>
>>>> If you have a clear view, seeing cyclists should not be a problem.
>>>
>>> HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY THEY WERE RIDING LIKE THAT ON A BLIND
>>> CORNER?!?!?!?! [...]
>> THEN YOU WERE GOING TO FAST FOR CONDITIONS. DUH! DUH! DUH!
>
>
> I WAS DOING THE SPEED LIMIT...DUH DUH DUH.
What part of the speed limit not always being the safe maximum speed do
you not understand?
ComandanteBanana
And the Toyota Tercel Hawk edition (spoiler and all) was the unsafest
car ever made! I had the '97 and having NO anti-roll bars it was like
a tippy canoe. Later I had a Suzuki/Geo 3 cyl without the muffler and
it was a blast!
Hachiroku ハチロク
>
> Is there an advanced driving association over your side of the pond?
> Somebody who can teach you how to drive safely while not dawdling along.
> If there is, they've got a lot to teach you.
Already have the certificate. Mass. State Police advanced driving course.
They made me do things with a car I have never done since. Like pushing
the tires to the limit.
Pushing the suspension to the limit.
Pushing the engine to the limit.
I drive fast, not reckless.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>>>> HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY THEY WERE RIDING LIKE THAT ON A BLIND
>>>> CORNER?!?!?!?! [...]
>>> THEN YOU WERE GOING TO FAST FOR CONDITIONS. DUH! DUH! DUH!
>>
>>
>> I WAS DOING THE SPEED LIMIT...DUH DUH DUH. [...]
>
> What part of the speed limit not always being the safe maximum speed do
> you not understand?
What part of not riding in the middle of the road don't you?
Are you that dense?
Or just like to argue for the sake of arguement?
Clive George
news:pan.2009.09.17....@e86.GTS...
So how come you missed the bit about the speed limit not necessarily being
the maximum safe speed? Or are your advanced driving courses not that good?
Tom Sherman °_°
> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:57:25 -0500, Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
>
>>>>> HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY THEY WERE RIDING LIKE THAT ON A BLIND
>>>>> CORNER?!?!?!?! [...]
>>>> THEN YOU WERE GOING TO FAST FOR CONDITIONS. DUH! DUH! DUH!
>>>
>>> I WAS DOING THE SPEED LIMIT...DUH DUH DUH. [...]
>> What part of the speed limit not always being the safe maximum speed do
>> you not understand?
>
>
> What part of not riding in the middle of the road don't you?
>
> Are you that dense?
>
Are you done making false assumptions?
> Or just like to argue for the sake of arguement?
>
For someone who is behaving like a troll, this is an interesting question.
Hachiroku ハチロク
I had a Tercel, green with a 'spoiler'.
I don't see how it could be fast enough to be unsafe! ;p
But I did get 45 MPG. With an automatic.
I sold it for $1400 to buy the Supra.
Then gas went up a quarter to $2.45...
I put 185/60-13's on it and ran out of engine long before running out of
tire.
Tom Sherman °_°
>
Opinion stated as fact.
Edward Dolan
"Tom Sherman �_�" <twsherm...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote in message
news:h8rkl2$8ke$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Hachiroku who? wrote:
[...]
>> And I don't think I ever said anything about cowering in the gutter. But
>> it just kinda make sense, when a vehicle weighing 2 tons is approaching
>> you at 30 MPH faster that you kinda get out of the way. The person I'm
>> referring to made absolutely no effort to move to the side at all.
> Do you ram into farm machinery and Amish buggies? Do they not have a right
> to the public roads? Your whole approach is motorist superiority, which is
> neither the legal or moral case in civilized society.
Mr. Sherman is theoretically right on the issues presented here, but even
so, that kind of rightness can get you killed. Hachiroku knows what kind of
drivers of motor vehicles are out there, and maybe he is one himself, and so
it would behoove any slow moving vehicle to get out of the way. Taking the
lane is a good way to get run over.
Regards,
Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota
Edward Dolan
"Tom Sherman �_�" <twsherm...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote in message
Only an insane person would take a name after an automobile or after a
bicycle. No, I am convinced that Hachiroku is a Mongol from the steppes of
Central Asia and that Genghis Khan was a direct ancestor of his. How else do
you account for his blood thirsty interest in running down cyclists and the
freaking Amish with their slow moving horse and buggy contraptions. Yea, he
has the Mongol blood lust of olden times.
We need to recruit him to fight the Muslims. The Mongols once slaughtered
the Muslims of the Middle East in uncounted numbers and we need to encourage
them to do it again. Genghis Khan, where are you when you are so desperately
needed?
Hachiroku ハチロク
>> They made me do things with a car I have never done since. Like pushing
>> the tires to the limit.
>> Pushing the suspension to the limit.
>> Pushing the engine to the limit.
>>
>> I drive fast, not reckless.
>
> So how come you missed the bit about the speed limit not necessarily being
> the maximum safe speed? Or are your advanced driving courses not that
> good?
I had a dog that, when you dangled it's toy in front of it, would grab
ahold and not let go.
I used to carry him around town like that.
The speed limit is the safe speed as long as there aren't jackasses doing
stupid things.
What part of that escapes you?
Hachiroku ハチロク
> Hachiroku ハチロク who? anonymously trolled:
>> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 19:57:25 -0500, Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
>>
>>>>>> HOW MANY TIMES DID I SAY THEY WERE RIDING LIKE THAT ON A BLIND
>>>>>> CORNER?!?!?!?! [...]
>>>>> THEN YOU WERE GOING TO FAST FOR CONDITIONS. DUH! DUH! DUH!
>>>>
>>>> I WAS DOING THE SPEED LIMIT...DUH DUH DUH. [...]
>>> What part of the speed limit not always being the safe maximum speed do
>>> you not understand?
>>
>>
>> What part of not riding in the middle of the road don't you get?
>>
> Finish your sentence.
There. Sorry I had to spell it to the letter for you.
>
>> Are you that dense?
>>
> Are you done making false assumptions?
I think I've hit the nail square on the head.
>
>> Or just like to argue for the sake of arguement?
>>
> For someone who is behaving like a troll, this is an interesting question.
I'd take a good look in the mirror before calling someone else a troll.
Or, is a troll someone who tries to make you see how foolish you appear?
Edward Dolan
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.09.17....@e86.GTS...
No, you are just dealing with one Tom Sherman. He does know a thing or two
about cycling, but still if you listen to him without your own common sense
kicking in, his prescriptions can easily get you killed.
He fundamentally believes two wrong things, that the streets are safer than
bike paths and that taking the lane is safer than staying to the edge of the
road. Like I said, he has been eternally wrong on those two things and
nothing you can say will ever change him in the slightest. He is basically
an ideologue about everything under the sun.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>> Hey Ed,
>>
>> The "Hachiroku" name is a pseudonym after an automobile, just like
>> "Johnny NoCom" is a pseudonym after a bicycle.
>
> Only an insane person would take a name after an automobile or after a
> bicycle.
Or, someone who has had his identity stolen and doesn't want to use his
real name.
Of course, being still in recovery from that 14 years later, there isn't
really much more that can be done now, is there?
You could call me SlimJim John if you wanted to.
http://www.reverbnation.com/thecrybabies
Tracks 3-8.
http://www.thecrybabies.com/lineup.html
About 1/3 to 1/2 way down.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>> And I don't think I ever said anything about cowering in the gutter. But
>> it just kinda make sense, when a vehicle weighing 2 tons is approaching
>> you at 30 MPH faster that you kinda get out of the way. The person I'm
>> referring to made absolutely no effort to move to the side at all.
>>
> Do you ram into farm machinery and Amish buggies?
My God, are you an idiot.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>> Do you ram into farm machinery and Amish buggies? Do they not have a
>> right to the public roads? Your whole approach is motorist superiority,
>> which is neither the legal or moral case in civilized society.
>
> Mr. Sherman is theoretically right on the issues presented here, but even
> so, that kind of rightness can get you killed. Hachiroku knows what kind
> of drivers of motor vehicles are out there, and maybe he is one himself,
> and so it would behoove any slow moving vehicle to get out of the way.
> Taking the lane is a good way to get run over.
LOL! I think my friend here is at least a borderline troll.
I do know what kind of drivers are out there.
You get skilled, experienced driver like me that know when and where and
how to get along rapidly, and others that just don't care and go tearing
through city streets.
I drive rapidly. I don't drive like a jackaass.
I don't ride like a jackass, either.
Now, Tom...?
Let's see. Will it be going to fast for conditions (uh, wrong).
Hey! How about the cyclist shouldn't have been almost out to the yellow
line!
Yeah! That's the ticket!
Can someone please tell me how being in the middle of the road on the
other side of a blind corner in a 45MPH zone could possibly be safe?
Hachiroku ハチロク
>
> "Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
> news:pan.2009.09.17....@e86.GTS...
>> On Wed, 16 Sep 2009 17:24:20 -0500, Tom Sherman °_° wrote:
>>
>>>> And, I'm also wondering about who the 'troll' might be: someone
>>>> describing common sense, or someone defending and indefensible
>>>> practice.
>>>>
>>> You are obviously completely ignorant of "vehicular cycling" and how it
>>> actually works in the real world. Drop your motorist superiority
>>> attitude and try to learn something.
>>
>>
>> Wow. I *AM* dealing with a K00K.
>>
>> Ooooo...K!
>
> No, you are just dealing with one Tom Sherman. He does know a thing or two
> about cycling, but still if you listen to him without your own common
> sense kicking in, his prescriptions can easily get you killed.
At least he'll have the best running bike when he gets run down.
>
> He fundamentally believes two wrong things, that the streets are safer
> than bike paths and that taking the lane is safer than staying to the edge
> of the road. Like I said, he has been eternally wrong on those two things
> and nothing you can say will ever change him in the slightest. He is
> basically an ideologue about everything under the sun.
Like I said. That kind of philosphy leads to...
http://www.usabodybags.com/images/bags.jpg
There are alot of things worth arguing for. Stupidity isn't one of them.
Clive George
news:pan.2009.09.17....@e86.GTS...
You really have no idea at all, do you. I can show you many roads where it's
not even slightly safe to do the speed limit.
Edward Dolan
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.09.17....@e86.GTS...
> I'd take a good look in the mirror before calling someone else a troll.
> Or, is a troll someone who tries to make you see how foolish you appear?
There is much confusion on these cycling newsgroups about trolls. In fact,
there are all kinds of trolls, There are bad trolls and criminal trolls and
there are good trolls and Great Good Trolls. Needless to say, Ed Dolan the
Great falls into the last category exclusively.
The main thing is to stay out of the criminal class of trolls. Ed Gin and
company were criminal trolls. They posted under names not their own and in
fact used other's real names and hid behind proxies. They mainly did one
thing and that was to call names. And lastly, they were never in the least
responsive to anything that was said. They bordered on being spammers.
There is also a subclass of trolls who only do one thing and that is to call
everyone else a troll and say they are going to kill file (plonk) you. This
is the nadir of trolling since all it does is infuriate the bad trolls. A
Great Good Troll like Myself is immune to everything. Great Good Trolls
hardly even exist in the real world. Nay, we exist in our own self-created
worlds and spend most of our time contemplating our navels.
Hachiroku ハチロク
>> The speed limit is the safe speed as long as there aren't jackasses
>> doing stupid things.
>
> You really have no idea at all, do you. I can show you many roads where
> it's not even slightly safe to do the speed limit.
live in New England. I can show you plenty.
So what does all this have to do with someone riding a bike near the
yellow line on the other side of a corner?
Hachiroku ハチロク
>
> There is also a subclass of trolls who only do one thing and that is to
> call everyone else a troll and say they are going to kill file (plonk)
> you.
I have plonked exactly 4 people in 17 years on Usenet.
TomTom is coming close, merely for arguing for stupidity.
Ooops...make that five. Three's another person in another group that like
to argue merely for arguement's sake. If you said the sky was blue, he'd
say, no it's not, and then proceed to tell you for 25,736 more posts how
it's not.
Edward Dolan
"Hachiroku ????" <Tru...@e86.GTS> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.09.17....@e86.GTS...
Hells Bells, that is all the fun of Usenet. These groups are not moderated
which means we can say anything we want. Tom Sherman and I agree with one
another about the joys of unmoderated newsgroups, although I, unlike him, do
not take any of this the least bit seriously. In fact, I KNOW that you have
to have a moderator (editor) to keep everyone on track. Otherwise, you have
bedlam - which is exactly what Usenet is.
I would enjoy Tom Sherman simply for his rationality. Also, he is quite
expert in how a proper post should look. It is possible to learn any number
of things from him because he is not only knowledgeable, but also
intelligent. And the best thing about him is that he is not vindictive nor
does he insist on getting the last word. I think those last two items may be
my major faults, I must admit.
Tom Sherman prides himself on his rationality. Ed Dolan the Great prides
himself on his spite. Once you know this about us, it should not be a
problem for you. It is OK to kill file someone, but once you have done that,
you must never comment any further on the person or his posts. That is only
fair.