The Other M5 Bicycles (Not the Low Racer)
gtdunn
guy's wishbone that had a similar style of seat, and found it
very comfortable. I like to ride very reclined (but not to the
extent of a wishbone), and the M5 bikes seem to have very good
components, especially for their price.
My primary interest at this point is in either the 26/20 low bar
or the compact folder. Comments I've seen regarding the M5 Low
Racer include (a) very fast; (b) stable at high speeds, somewhat
difficult to master at low speeds; (c) comfortable but would it
be for a long ride; (d) campy road components may not give
adequate gearing range; (e) nice looking.
I'd be very interested in further comments about the M5 bikes or
either of these models in particular, addressing the above
points or others. I know Marci's getting an M5 folder (may have
it by now) and I hope to talk with her about that, but do any
others of you have experience with any of the M5 models other
than the Low Racer?
I want a bike to (a) commute to work (18-mile round trip
currently); (b) ride in town (so not so low I'll get squashed
like a bug); (c) do 25-50 mile recreational rides fairly often;
(d) hopefully work up to an occasionally century.
So...why shouldn't I buy an M5?
Thanks!
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Bazza
corresponded with the M5 folks. Here's my two cents.
- They are not the lightest bikes around. Even the low racer weighs as
much as a BikeE - well over 30 lbs. The newest fully suspended model is
over 33 lbs.
- They will build them with Shimano components if you wish - you don't have
to take the Campy road gearing
- There are NO showrooms or dealers or places in the USA where you can look
at one or ride one, unless you find someone who owns one. The M5 factory
won't point you to an owner, so you'll probably have to connect through this
newsgroup. Unless you're headed to Europe soon, you'll be buying it sight
unseen.
- They do have the excellent Vredestein S-Lick tires as standard -- but you
can get those on any bike
- They claimed some months ago that they "we're establshing dealers in the
USA", but no progress has been made as I recently inquired if there was yet
someplace to see one.
So I decided on the Barcroft Dakota. It is build in Virginia, it is fully
customizable, also low and laid back (without being as low as a low racer
where you can't be easily seen in traffic), has the Rans seat which is
widely regarded as the most comfortable seat in all of recumbent-dom, has
much less heel overlap than the M5 low racer, thus improving low speed
manoeverability, and, at 27 lbs, is 10 percent lighter than the M5. I know
that I can get parts for the seat and handlebars -- something that may be
more of a challenge with M5 until they get some dealers over here.
I am very happy with the decision. On the Barcroft, unfaired, I am only 2-3
percent slower than on my fully faired GRR -- but a LOT more comfortable in
the process. I can't ride the GRR more than about 60 miles without
discomfort in the wrists (those funky harley-esque handlebars) and recumbent
butt. On the Dakota, I've done my first double century and felt great.
If you're looking for a terrific 26/20 low and fast 'bent, check out the
Barcroft bikes at www.barcroftcycles.com
bazza
gtdunn <gregdunn...@bigfoot.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:217f7d63...@usw-ex0102-016.remarq.com...
Greg Dunn
I've been very attracted to the Barcroft as well, however here are my
thoughts on that:
1. My perception is that there's a fairly long wait time for Barcrofts
(maybe I'm wrong); M5 says they'll ship the 26/20 lowbar in a week, or the
folder instantaneously. No doubt it'll be three more weeks on a boat.
2. The weight doesn't bother me a whole lot. I've got a very lightweight
Mercian upright bicycle that I ran into a curb at about 5 mph a number of
years ago. This trivial collison bent the frame slightly - not enough to
bother the rideability, but enough to instantly reduce the value of the
frame to about $0. In retrospect I wouldn't have minded a few extra pounds
in the frame if it translated to strength.
3. Same bike has Campy Nuovo Record components. I can't remember adjusting
the shifters or much of anything else since I bought it in 1984. Granted
there were long periods of no riding, and I had it overhauled in '92, but
the thing still shifts perfectly every time, and it never makes any noise.
So I have a pretty good impression of Campagnolo stuff.
4. Sight unseen. Yeah, that's a bit of a risk, no doubt about that. I
haven't figured out how to see a Barcroft either, but I suppose I'd probably
have at least a little bit easier time. Just takes one, tho.
5.Barcroft isn't available in underseat steer, to which I'm still inclined.
6. M5's cheaper - seems like a fabulous deal for the money. I'm told the
Euro dollar is pretty weak right now, making the exchange rate very
favorable.
7. > I can get parts for the seat and handlebars -- something that may be
more of a challenge with M5 until they get some dealers over here.< I guess
that's a consideration. But with email and the web and all, global has
gotten a lot easier.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure if a Barcroft showed up in my garage tomorrow
morning it would be love at first site. But darn, the M5's are tempting.
Bazza
Good luck. You're right about the lead time for Barcrofts. Think it's up
to 6-8 weeks these days as demand for that bike is growing.
- No arguement that with the weak Euro, the European bikes are a good
value.
- Campy components are tops. You'd expressed concern over how wide the
gearing was with their road group. It is not as wide as I'd order it for
our Seattle area hills, and besides, all my tools are for Shimano stuff so
that's why I asked the M5 folks about Shimano
- I have not been able to get a response from M5 on the WHEELBASE of their
bikes. I am very fond of the longer WB of the Barcroft -- 4-6 inches longer
than most SWB's which helps stability at high speeds and puts the saddle
further from the rear wheel so that the frame can soften the ride more
effectively.
- USS - well, yes - Barcrofts are OSS only. I'm an OSS guy because our
bike paths are sometimes crowded and I can manoever better with OSS, and on
some hills, like the last 1/4 mile to my house, one just has to get off and
push -- much more of a hassle with USS.
- Demo rides - yep, gotta go to Falls Church Virginia to test a Barcroft
unless someone in your area has one. I get there on business, so stopping
by Barcroft was not a major problem.
Good luck. I'm sure that I'd be one of many on this NG that will be very
interested in your experiences with any of the M5 bikes should you decide to
get one.
bazza
Greg Dunn <greg...@home.com> wrote in message
news:LOk25.2471$3D1....@news1.frmt1.sfba.home.com...
andy
I don't know much about the M5 bikes but I have heard tell that
they are related to the HPVelotechnik StreetMachine (which I own
and love). You might want to check that out (if you haven't
already).
The HPVelo site is http://www.hpvelotechnik.com/ (click on the
Union flag to get the english version)
Ben at Kinetics (http://www.kinetics.org.uk) will ship one to
the States (or you might be able to get one through Fools Crow).
Cheers,
Andy
StreetMachine GT (as of yesterday!)
http://andywelch.homestead.com/
Andrew Douglas
The ShockProof looks like a great bike for your needs. High enough to
ride in traffic, laid back enough to go fast. Heavy, though.
Andrew Douglas
position and come to really, really love it. I do highly recommend a
headrest.
The Barcroft is a nice bike. However, it looks to me that you'd get
neck strain after a while. No support for the head and neck.
I own a box Wishbone, and am presently test riding a round tube that's
on its way to one of our club members. Nice bike, custom built for
$1850... not bad. And it has USS that works extremely well and is no
less aero than ASS (before anybody jumps on me about this, I have
photos to prove the point).
There IS at least one M5 dealer in the US, Northeast Recumbents in
Verona, NJ. Plus I think Fool's Crow is bringing in some M5s, but I
could be wrong.
Andy Douglas
Dan Kluckhuhn
gtdunn <gregdunn...@bigfoot.com.invalid> wrote:
> The M5 bikes look totally cool. This past weekend I sat in a
> guy's wishbone that had a similar style of seat, and found it
> very comfortable. I like to ride very reclined (but not to the
> extent of a wishbone), and the M5 bikes seem to have very good
> components, especially for their price.
>
> My primary interest at this point is in either the 26/20 low bar
> or the compact folder. Comments I've seen regarding the M5 Low
> Racer include (a) very fast; (b) stable at high speeds, somewhat
> difficult to master at low speeds; (c) comfortable but would it
> be for a long ride; (d) campy road components may not give
> adequate gearing range; (e) nice looking.
>
> I'd be very interested in further comments about the M5 bikes or
> either of these models in particular, addressing the above
> points or others. I know Marci's getting an M5 folder (may have
> it by now) and I hope to talk with her about that, but do any
> others of you have experience with any of the M5 models other
> than the Low Racer?
>
> I want a bike to (a) commute to work (18-mile round trip
> currently); (b) ride in town (so not so low I'll get squashed
> like a bug); (c) do 25-50 mile recreational rides fairly often;
> (d) hopefully work up to an occasionally century.
>
> So...why shouldn't I buy an M5?
>
> Thanks!
>
was supposed to take 2 weeks to build and 1 week to ship. The 1 week to
ship was accurate. I just waited over 2 MONTHS for the bike. M5 seems
pretty disorganized. My bike was also supposed to come with Campy
Veloce components which I paid extra for above the standard Mirage.
Well, the bike came with Mirage and M5 and the Dutch dealer have been
arguing about (or ignoring)the issue for over a month now. My advice
would be to get some sort of guarantee that the bike is already built
exactly as you want it and ready to ship. Mine was supposedly delayed
because they couldn't get (or forgot to order) a Campy triple
chainring. Then they disovered they were out of blue frames (four weeks
extra to get a blue frame since they send them to Denmark for powder
coating). Then another Campy delay for something else they didn't have.
I certainly wouldn't order something they don't have on the shipping
dock again.
BTW, due to the sliding boom, I had to get a new deraileur cable to
move the boom out and because the brakes are switched left for right
here, I had to get a new brake cable because the cable lengths were so
tight. It is a real disadvantage not to be able to ride the exact bike
you will buy.
I dont know where you live, but if you ride in hot weather, you will
sweat a lot with any of the Euro seats. They are usually some sort of
foam or very thin woven plastic on a hard shell. Even though you are
laid back, most of your weight will still be on your butt and a little
extra padding or a mesh bottom is nice too. You can always modify if
you need to though.
I would definitly also look at the Dutch Challenge Hurricane and the
Barcroft bikes if I were you. I think Fools Crow and Calhoun Cycles
carry Challenge. Revobike sells Optima, another Dutch company.
Another option is wait 'til the fall or spring when airfairs are cheap
and spend $350 for a RT ticket to Holland where you can try out all the
laid back bikes.
Good Luck in your search.
Dan
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
tamarack2
The tailbox,shipped by a big name US shipper,arrived badly
damaged in several places. M5 is replacing the tailbox and
dealing with the shipper, which says something about the
credibility of the builder.
The bike itself is very well finished in a manner which would
make Cannondale proud. There are several brands of American
bikes which are downright crude by comparison. It is also very
fast. He regularly smokes road bikers at 55kph(35mph). He can go
40kph in headwinds when regular bikers are doing 15. The
learning curve was not that difficult and the bike is priced
very competitively.
But it is not for everyone. The seat is fixed and moulded to fit
a "fit" person. M5 needs to know your size to fit the proper
seat to you. European bikes in general are more radically
designed than America bikes-how many 28/26 recumbents have you
seen? The new Shockproof is considered in Europe to be a fast
city bike, but its shape is closer to a lowracer than anything
else. While some people have noted that it is heavier than
similar US models, it has good quality dual suspension including
a monoblade aero front suspension fork. You cannot even get a
fork like that in the US. Its weight is not much of a penalty
for the comfort,speed and handling you get. There are no
comparable bikes available in the US.
Americans are more conservative than Europeans as far as
recumbent design is concerned. Just compare the latest bikes
from both areas to see for yourself. But American bikes have
their own advantages. Most are more adaptable to body sizes and
more general purpose. The seats are likely to fit you better and
the use of mesh fabric on a frame makes them less sweat
inducing. Seating and leg positions are generally more
adjustable. Bikes like the Barcroft are appealing that way and
they are fast by modern standards. Europeans have the advantage
that recumbents are more mainstream and manufacturers enjoy
greater economies of scale. They can afford to play with new
model designs and provide a broader range of specialized bikes
of all types. But buying an oh wow radical bike has its
disadvantages.
As a potential buyer, you should try a bike before you commit,
especially a European bike. Or just follow the buy American
theme and settle for a domestic model. This ng has much more
experience with American models and you can get a better idea
about their good and bad points.
Jun Nogami
the Michigan HPV races last weekend, and Ed Deaton was up from Florida with a
good selection of eurobents including the Challenge Hurricane, Taifun, the M5
lowracer, and the Streetmachine. Everyone who tested the bikes had a different
favorite! Also, a test ride is stronglly affected by whether or not the bike is
set up properly for you, and this takes work moving the boom in and out, etc.
If I were to choose between one of Ed's bikes and ordering from M5, I'd pay the
extra few hundred dollars to get better and more accessible service. He builds
bikes up from the frameset just the way you want.
Having said all that, my favorite was the Hurricane, which I did not expect.
If you are really stuck on USS, the Streetmachine is fantastic. My dream bike
would be the Streetmachine but a little lower, and with ASS, and so I'm waiting
to see the Speedmachine in the fall.
Jun Nogami
Markus Imhof
>
> I'd also advise you not to buy a bike that you haven't ridden as well.
Seconded.
...
> extra few hundred dollars to get better and more accessible service. He builds
> bikes up from the frameset just the way you want.
Well, at least here <eg>, with bikes in this price/volume category,
every seller (including the manufacturer) will build the bike according
to your wishes, even if the respective options are not listed in the
catalogue. After all, it's not like they take the finished bike from the
rack and ship it to you. At least that was my experience when I ordered
my new Taifun last week. Went to the shop with my checklist, shop owner
rang the bike manufacturer/designer and together we went through the
list.
Nevertheless, a decent local dealer is worth more than the maybe 10% you
can save by ordering yourself. And if he's good, he can/will custom
build parts that aren't available otherwise.
>
> Having said all that, my favorite was the Hurricane, which I did not expect.
> If you are really stuck on USS, the Streetmachine is fantastic. My dream bike
> would be the Streetmachine but a little lower, and with ASS,
AFAIK you can get both the Speedmachine and the Streetmachine with
either USS or ASS.
When trying the Speedmachine, the main thing I noticed was that the seat
doesn't agree with my back. Apart from that a very nice bike. But I
preferred the Taifun - for me, more comfortable seat, the folding
steering is neat and overall it felt like more fun (lower seat and - in
my limited time - felt more responsive). Frederick Van der Walle winning
the criterium race that weekend on one of them doesn't actually speak
against it, either :-)
> and so I'm waiting
> to see the Speedmachine in the fall.
Good luck. It is a nice bike.
Bye
Markus
Stewart C. Russell
>
> the 26/20 low bar
I guess the 26/20 low bar would be pretty much my ideal machine.
I find the high bars on my Speedliner BlueGlide (a budget M5-designed
26/20) a little narrow, so the underseat steering would be perfect.
--
Stewart C. Russell, Kirkintilloch, Scotland - scr...@enterprise.net
"Hang on... This is the real thing... The truth, my friend,
and nothing but the truth" - Mervyn Peake
http://homepages.enterprise.net/scruss/
Stewart C. Russell
>
>I don't know much about the M5 bikes but I have heard tell that
>they are related to the HPVelotechnik StreetMachine
I think you may be mistaken. The (now defunct) Speedliner machines
and the Thys Rowingbike are Bram Moens designs. The HP machines are
from a completely different stable.
Jun Nogami
Markus Imhof wrote:
> AFAIK you can get both the Speedmachine and the Streetmachine with
> either USS or ASS.
> When trying the Speedmachine, the main thing I noticed was that the seat
> doesn't agree with my back. Apart from that a very nice bike. But I
> preferred the Taifun - for me, more comfortable seat, the folding
> steering is neat and overall it felt like more fun (lower seat and - in
> my limited time - felt more responsive). Frederick Van der Walle winning
> the criterium race that weekend on one of them doesn't actually speak
> against it, either :-)
Does this mean that the Speedmachine is already for sale?
Jun
MTa
the folding m5 recumbent a month ago.... and I still have not
received the bike. I contacted them by phone finally and
supposedly it is in the mail and I should get it any day (that
was 2 days ago). However, I did have some changes made to it so
that could be the holdup. I will give a review when I get it and
get some miles on it.
I too think that Barcroft is probably the way to go. And, yes,
delivery times are long. I ordered one over a month ago right
before the owned left for Turkey for a vacation. He has
returned and I hope to have my Virginia GT in about 2 more
weeks. I agree with Bazza, the Barcroft bikes seem quality,
fast and great looking.
Marci
Greg Dunn
Another option is wait 'til the fall or spring when airfairs are cheap
and spend $350 for a RT ticket to Holland where you can try out all the
laid back bikes.
<<
Now that's a great idea! It would be tons of fun to go to Holland,
especially with a more interesting mission than to see windmills and buy all
my friends a pair of wooden shoes. 8-) I'm very interested in the rowing
bike also.
Greg Dunn
perspectives. They give me a lot to think about and are interesting and
entertaining in their own right. This is a real nice newsgroup community!
"gtdunn" <gregdunn...@bigfoot.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:217f7d63...@usw-ex0102-016.remarq.com...
> The M5 bikes look totally cool. This past weekend I sat in a
> guy's wishbone that had a similar style of seat, and found it
> very comfortable. I like to ride very reclined (but not to the
> extent of a wishbone), and the M5 bikes seem to have very good
> components, especially for their price.
>
> My primary interest at this point is in either the 26/20 low bar
> or the compact folder. Comments I've seen regarding the M5 Low
> Racer include (a) very fast; (b) stable at high speeds, somewhat
> difficult to master at low speeds; (c) comfortable but would it
> be for a long ride; (d) campy road components may not give
> adequate gearing range; (e) nice looking.
>
> I'd be very interested in further comments about the M5 bikes or
> either of these models in particular, addressing the above
> points or others. I know Marci's getting an M5 folder (may have
> it by now) and I hope to talk with her about that, but do any
> others of you have experience with any of the M5 models other
> than the Low Racer?
>
> I want a bike to (a) commute to work (18-mile round trip
> currently); (b) ride in town (so not so low I'll get squashed
> like a bug); (c) do 25-50 mile recreational rides fairly often;
> (d) hopefully work up to an occasionally century.
>
> So...why shouldn't I buy an M5?
>
> Thanks!
>
Ranald Gault
around time will be quicker than it was for Dan K. The M5
folks have been accommodating in answering some critical fit
questions I had, and they've given some good advice. This
responsiveness is one factor that kept me focused on M5
rather than moving on to another make. I'll suggest that
anyone wanting information from them can best get it by a
direct phone call as answering e-mail must put a high demand
on the time of their small staff -- I'm afraid I shamelessly
abused their good will that way. I can't tell for certain,
but it appears that most of M5's business funnels through
the Middelburg location so this time of year it must be
hellish for them to meet all obligations in as timely a
manner as they and we would like.
There was little question about M5 as a choice for me. From
Canada, American bikes are simply too expensive due to the
pounding we take on the exchange rate. Certain of the
attractive Euro bikes are only available in Canada via an
American redistributor, and so these are also unreasonably
expensive. I was quite intent on a SWB USS bike, and that
leaves few choices for a small rider. M5's 26/20 seat seems
to be a few centimetres lower than the limited roster of
similar bikes available elsewhere, and they adjust the bar
extension back to match a short armed rider's reach. I
asked and was told that the bike would be equipped with
Campy Veloce. With Campy, your stuck with a 28 tooth low on
the rear cluster, but M5 offers a bit of wiggle room on the
front rings: a 26 tooth inner is available at extra cost. I
think Campy is going to be their sole supplier now as
Shimano has become too expensive and restrictive. The
formed fibreglass or carbon fibre seats would be hot, but M5
recommends Reycoflex cushions -- that industrial filter
stuff previously discussed -- as a highly breathable
remedy. These seem cheap enough, but M5 sees them as
something one would likely have to change occasionally after
they have become unrecoverably compressed.
Dan's suggestion of travelling to Holland to sample several
makes is probably the best idea. I would have done that
myself if I could have scheduled it just to be certain of
the fit, not to mention the avoidance of possible component
screw-ups. Now all I can do is wait and hope they can
deliver what they quoted in something like the time they
claimed.
Ranald Gault
Calgary
Stewart C. Russell
>
>I can't tell for certain,
>but it appears that most of M5's business funnels through
>the Middelburg location
I'd be very surprised if they had more than one factory and outlet;
building recumbents is a very small scale business. When I've
e-mailed M5, I have always received a personal reply from Bram,
the designer --- that makes me think that this is not a huge
operation.
tamarack2
currency problem. I have considered a M5 20/20 and I would
welcome your opinions of the bike and M5 service when you get
your 26/20. Jeff.
Markus Imhof
>
> Markus Imhof wrote:
>
...
>
> Does this mean that the Speedmachine is already for sale?
No. This was a recumbent event, and they had (the ?) three prototypes.
During the time these weren't used for racing, you could try one of them
if you asked nicely. According to the HP Velotechnik people, August or
September, but already with a lot of orders (for Europe, I don't know
about the US).
Bye
Markus
Peter Sheaf
Stewart C. Russell <scr...@enterprise.net> wrote in article
<hAr25.20$gB6....@news.enterprise.net>...
> andy <a.w...@abdn.ac.uk> wrote:
> >
> >I don't know much about the M5 bikes but I have heard tell that
> >they are related to the HPVelotechnik StreetMachine
>
> I think you may be mistaken. The (now defunct) Speedliner machines
> and the Thys Rowingbike are Bram Moens designs. The HP machines are
> from a completely different stable.
>