V-Rex vs Challenge Wizard - Ride Report (long)

[Matthew H. Schneps]

I recently sold my 98 V-Rex and bought a WIZARD made by Challenge
(Dutch). The Wizard is not well known in the US, although Challenge's
lowracers like Hurricane, Jester, and Taifun have been getting some
attention. The Wizard, a 20/26 aluminum frame SWB, is intended as a
touring bike -and is not a lowracer. The only Wizard in stock in the US
at the time I was in the market was at Calhoun Cycles, but Foolscrow
also stocks them, and Zach Kaplan will import them. You can see my bike
at at http://www.calhouncycle.com/wizard.html

The reason I gave up on the V-Rex, though I found it a fast bike and
good on hills, is that it just didn't fit me. My X-seam is 39.5 inches,
and though the RANS seat could easily move to accommodate people my
height or shorter, I was so far to the front on the boom that my feet
could no longer reach the ground. Further, I had to be positioned close
to the headset, making steering twitchy and the bike springy -- putting
the most weight over the weakest (middle) part of the frame.

I also found the ride on the V-Rex too stiff for the bad roads I'm used
to near Boston. I wanted rear suspension. Most of the Euro bikes are
suspended (few US bikes are). Further, most US SWBs (excepting
Barcroft, and low-racers like Reynolds) tend to have a "high" seat
configuration (24.5" and higher) similar to the V-Rex making them
impractical for me. The Vivo, Altitude, Traverse, or Vision 50 are all
tall bikes compared to the Wizard. The WIZARD has a 20-inch seat
height, making it very low, but still not too low for city traffic.

The first impression, out of the box, comparing the Challenge to the
V-Rex is that while the V-Rex is a delicate road machine, the Wizard
looks like a tank. Wizard has a fat aluminum boom, MTB components
(V-Rex had some Campy!), a rear rack, underseat racks, lights,
chaintubes, and a dynamo. All this, plus the suspension makes the
Wizard a considerably heavier bike, perhaps a difference of 7 lbs.

I took the bike on the 50-mile route I take every few days (I know every
pothole and bump by heart!). Comparing the performance of the two bikes
I really didn't notice the difference in speed due to the added weight.
When the rider's weight is taken into account, the added weight makes
only about a 3-percent difference, and not being a competition class
rider I'm really hard pressed to spot the difference. The V-Rex does
seem a hair zippier in a quick acceleration, however.

Even so, the Wizard can really move! Unlike the V-Rex, where the BB is
a tad lower than the seat, on the Wizard the BB is slightly higher than
the seat. I found that this allowed me to make use of strong under-leg
muscles that didn't get much of a workout on the V-Rex. I could really
push. Further, the hard Euro seat supports you mostly on the back and
shoulders, and lets you to press much more forcefully into the back than
does the RANS mesh. So, you can really power the stroke.

Also, the WIZARD seat is very laid back. While it's possible to lay the
V-Rex way back, the RANS seat doesn't support you well in this position,
and the V-Rex's lack of suspension makes itself felt. This combo of
high BB and laid back seat makes the WIZARD a tad more aero than the
V-Rex. I did a roll down test on my "standard" short hill (about 0.25
mile): the WIZARD coasted to 31mph, while the V-Rex only made 27mph.
(And I had wind sucking panniers mounted on the Wizard at the time, to boot.)

The WIZARD seems to handle high speeds better than the V-Rex. It's rock
steady at high speed, and can handle this speed with confidence (it also
has Magura rim brakes). The V-Rex feels jittery in comparison. Part of
the difference is the lower center of gravity on the Wizard. The RANS
seat is perched atop the boom on the V-Rex. But, the WIZARD seat is
cradled in a bend in the boom. On the Wizard you sit between the
wheels. On the V-Rex you sit more on top of the wheels.

In addition, the massive aluminum boom on the Wizard feels much stiffer
than the triangulated steel frame on the V-Rex. The V-Rex flexes when
you go over bumps. The Wizard's shock absorbs any road variation, and
the frame never seems to flex at all. Consequently, steering feels
solid, and you sail down hills without twitching.

The WIZARD, unlike the V-Rex, is made to haul freight. The Dutch rider,
Minko Oh, http://home.wanadoo.nl/moh/ has taken his Wizard literally
all over the world, carrying tons of camping gear up some very high
peaks. It handles freight well. The V-Rex, with it's higher c.g., on
the other hand, never felt natural carrying weight. Even small weights
in the seat back pack would pull the balance on the V-Rex.

The body fit on the Wizard is much tighter than on the V-Rex, and
considerably trickier to dial-in. Everything on the Wizard fits you
just-so with no room for slop. The handle bars fit close along your
belly, and just barely escape hitting your legs as you pedal. While
heelstrike is not a problem on the Wizard (it has a very short w.b.) the
handle bars are placed so close to your stomach you can get
"stomach-strike" on tight turns!

Even though steering is tight, the low c.g., and the shorter w.b. of the
Wizard allows you to really lean into turns. Your arms almost sit in
your lap as you ride, and it's less tiring than with arms in the air, as
on the V-Rex. The steering column is short and strong, and it allows you
to pull on it like on an upright, when the going gets tough. (Can't do
this much on the V-Rex.)

The components that came with the bike are mostly Shimano Deore LX. But
it has rapid shifters, which are very nice. The Magura brakes can't be
beat. Though the components look decidedly low-rent compared to those on
the 98 V-Rex, frankly, truth be told, the cheaper components work much
better than old pretty ones on rex. (The 105 front derailler that came
on the V-Rex was practically just a hood ornament - shifting was tough!)

All in all, while I'm still getting used to the bike, I'm finding I like
this bike a lot. It gives you the taste of a Euro low-rider, without
actually being a low-rider. With the laid-back Euro seat supporting your
shoulders, and the suspension, coasting on the bike feels like you're
sitting in a lounge chair with the fan turned on. While the V-Rex makes
you feel like you're riding a zippy road bike, the Wizard is feels more
stable, is consequently more fun on fast hills, and is more practical
for carrying things. Though the bike is low, surprisingly it feels
safer in traffic to me than the V-Rex (mostly 'cause of my height).
--

Best, Matt

[Al Kubeluis]

Matt,
Nice review of v-rex and wizard. Many thought provoking ideas. Thanks.
Al Kubeluis

"Matthew H. Schneps" <msch...@cfa.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:39BCE572...@cfa.harvard.edu...

[bent...@my-deja.com]

HERESY!

Tom Sherman
tshe...@students.uiuc.edu
1999 Blue RANS TAILWIND/63 with green bodysock
2000 Red RANS ROCKET

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Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

[Shwackman]

Thanks for the post Matt, I am always curious about how riders (with
experience) compare the different bikes they own.
I have been on a Challenge Hurricane for the last three weeks, & it has
been a gas! I've been riding a LWB Rotator Pursuit since April which will
really go the distance, but the Challenge has a super solid-sporty & fun feel
to it., Mark C.

[Freewheeling]

Matt:

Sounds like the driving consideration is fit. 7 lbs. is alot. My V-Rex
already feels too heavy for me, and I'm looking around for a lighter bike,
just for those times when I want to go all out on "A" club rides.

--
-Scott Talkington
freewh...@bigfoottail.com
Cut the "tail" to respond by email.

"Matthew H. Schneps" <msch...@cfa.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:39BCE572...@cfa.harvard.edu...

[bent...@my-deja.com]

I chose the ROCKET over the V-REX because the V-REX had slower and less
responsive handling than the ROCKET. I have been over 40 mph (no long
steep hills near where I live) on the ROCKET, and I found the handling
stable and confidence inspiring. As always, YMMV. The RANS SWB would
benefit however from an underseat rack for carrying loads (coming very
soon from Bike Depot).

My arms are not in the air when riding the ROCKET (or a V-REX). I agree
with Scott Talkington that the V-REX is probably too large of a bike for
you. If you have to sit too far forward on the RANS SWB bikes the height
of the handlebars will increase and the amount of steering tiller will
decrease which will make the bike feel subjectively less stable at
higher speeds.

Tom Sherman
tshe...@students.uiuc.edu
1999 Blue RANS TAILWIND/63 with green bodysock
2000 Red RANS ROCKET

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In article <39BCE572...@cfa.harvard.edu>,
msch...@cfa.harvard.edu wrote:
>...

> The WIZARD seems to handle high speeds better than the V-Rex. It's
> rock steady at high speed, and can handle this speed with confidence
> (it also has Magura rim brakes). The V-Rex feels jittery in

> comparison... ... While the V-Rex makes you feel like you're riding a

> zippy road bike, the Wizard is feels more stable, is consequently more
> fun on fast hills, and is more practical for carrying things.

> ...Even though steering is tight, the low c.g., and the shorter w.b.

> of the Wizard allows you to really lean into turns. Your arms almost
> sit in your lap as you ride, and it's less tiring than with arms in
> the air, as on the V-Rex.

[BobWu]

Tom posts an interesting question. What is the "sweet spot" for various
SWB bikes like the V-REX and the Rocket. He likes his bike, while Matt
did not. So how long are your legs, fella's?

And BTW, glad you like your new bike, Matt! Best of luck with it.

/Bob

In article <8pjsq8$ooa$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

--
Unsolicited commercial e-mail (SPAM)is not
appreciated.

[Matthew H. Schneps]

Because the bike is massive, it doesn't zip the way Rocket or a V-Rex
can. But at the same time, once you build momentum (which doesn't take
much), it doesn't stop. I can see why the Euro's tend to put Magura's
on the bikes as standard issue.

Most of the Euro bikes I know of tend to be heavy. But most also have
suspension, a high BB, a low seat, and very stiff frames. So they're
heavy, aero, and often provide a very closed riding position. On a
velodrome, I'd imagine that unless you're trying to do quick darts and
sprints, the weight probably is inconsequential once you get to speed.
Likewise for average touring. (I commute to work with about five pounds
of water, and a computer bag with another ten, some assorted tools,
shoes and stuff.) If you want to beat the wedgies, the weight will
doubtless slow you.

I'm still not fully comfortable with this bike in traffic. Though the
seat is such that you sit with your head straight and forward, you are
low. (It's fun to pass kids on the bike path riding tag-alongs since
you're head to head with 'em. They're quite amused. Passing a runner
and having to look up at his/her waist is a trip.) Still, the Wizard
puts your head at more or less driver height in traffic, so it's not so bad.

"Stomach strike" is disconcerting and will take me some time to get used
to. Today I was wearing a cell phone on my belt and had to move it
around the back cause it was getting in the way!

I plan another good longish ride tommorrow. We'll see how it fares.

Best, MAtt

[bent...@my-deja.com]

I have 7" of seat track in front of and 5" of seat track behind the seat
mounting "L" brackets, so I am fairly close to the middle of the
possible x-seams ranges. BTW, using the x-seam measurement method shown
in the RANS brochure my x-seam is within 1" of John Schlitter's which
might explain why the bike fits me very so well. I know a shorter rider
who disliked the ROCKET for much the same reason that Matt dislikes the
V-REX - being too close to the steering riser.

Tom Sherman
tshe...@students.uiuc.edu
1999 Blue RANS TAILWIND/63 with green bodysock
2000 Red RANS ROCKET

..….O __..........….O.._.....……
...__\\___\_....…__\\__\_-%.......
..(_)^^ %(_).…..(_)^^^(_)........……
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In article <8pka1a$861$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

BobWu <r...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> Tom posts an interesting question. What is the "sweet spot" for
> various SWB bikes like the V-REX and the Rocket. He likes his bike,
> while Matt did not. So how long are your legs, fella's?
>
> And BTW, glad you like your new bike, Matt! Best of luck with it.
>
> /Bob
>

[Mitch Kirschner]

BobWu wrote:

> Tom posts an interesting question. What is the "sweet spot" for various
> SWB bikes like the V-REX and the Rocket. He likes his bike, while Matt
> did not. So how long are your legs, fella's?

I think the standard V-REX frame is almost perfect for me. Set to max
recline, the seat lands about an inch forward of the middle of the seat
rail. I'm about 5' 10" with about a 43.5" x-seam. I have no trouble reaching
the ground at stops, and I think my seat position is optimum for taking
advantage of the frame's "vertical compliance" (passive suspension).
--

Mitch Kirschner
Monterey, CA
mkir...@ix.netcom.com

[Matthew H. Schneps]

Mitch Kirschner wrote:
> > Tom posts an interesting question. What is the "sweet spot" for various
> > SWB bikes like the V-REX and the Rocket. He likes his bike, while Matt
> > did not. So how long are your legs, fella's?

I'm 5'8 39.5" X-seam. I end up in a really bad spot on the V-Rex frame.

BTW, I road another 40 mi this morning on the Wizard. While I'm still
dialing in the bike, I definitely find I'm a bit faster on this bike
than the V-Rex. I think it's the high BB, stiff seat, and aero recline.
The bike also puts my weight much more over the 26 rear wheel. Not
sure what effect this has though.

Matt