"They're not going there just to get high"
jonathan
Thursday, September 02, 1999
"They're not going there just to get high"
A new study explains why kids are attracted to raves, and why shutting
them down is exactly the wrong solution
Mitchel Raphael
National Post
Fred Greenslade, National Post
Teens embrace after two nights of dancing at a 48-hour rave held in
St. Francois-Xavier, just west of Winnipeg, earlier this year.
Andre Pichette, The Gazette
Going to a rave in Montreal: Media accounts notwithstanding, raves
aren't just about drugs, a Canadian study has found.
The drug of choice at raves is marijuana, not ecstasy. As of 1997 ,
there were no deaths as a result of ecstasy reported in Canada.
Toronto ravers dance in rows facing the DJ. Most ravers are Caucasian
and middle-class. And the only people these soother-suckers don't like
are super-coiffed, open-shirted "Ginos," who they feel subvert the
true nature of raves.
These are some of the findings in a new study, Raving in Toronto:
Peace, Love, Unity, Respect in Transition, to be published in the
Journal of Youth Studies in October. The study was conducted by Tim
Weber, a former research associate at the Toronto Centre for Addiction
and Mental Health, who is currently a research manager at the Angus
Reid Group in Toronto. Weber, 37, says the Toronto Centre for
Addiction and Mental Health commissioned the study "to get a better
understanding of what's going on in the scene." The result is "one of
the first studies of the rave scene in Canada."
Field research for the study, which included interviews with 75 rave
attendees, was completed in the summer of '97. The average age of the
participants was 22. More than one third were students.
Weber was surprised to find that the drug of choice at raves was
marijuana. Media accounts of rave culture had led him to believe he'd
be hearing much more about ecstasy. "Marijuana is not as interesting
or as sexy as drugs like ecstasy or GHB [known as liquid ecstasy],"
says Weber. Media hunger for fashionable drugs and talk of legalizing
pot under the guise of "medical marijuana" has made smoking a joint
less outre.
Problems stemming from ecstasy, says Weber, are often related to the
fact that people don't drink enough water while on the drug, rather
than being directly related to the drug itself. In his report, Weber
cites a 1996 study, Ecstasy: Dance Trance and Transformation, that
noted: "Deaths linked to ecstasy use have been reported in Great
Britain and were associated with the drug's ability to increase
sweating and heart rate. Most of the deaths were a result of heat
stroke and not directly linked to the toxic effects of the drug
itself." Weber adds: "To date [1997], no ecstasy-related deaths have
been reported in Canada."
Weber says he is unaware of any current deaths as a result of ecstasy.
Police in Toronto say it's hard to determine the exact cause of death
when ecstasy is involved because it may have been taken with other
drugs. But the biggest concern in the club scene right now is ecstasy
itself being laced with other substances.
In an interview with the National Post, Detective Rick Chase, of the
Central Field Command Drug Squad in Toronto, says the rave scene
currently revolves more around adulterated drugs. The major shift is
that "over the last two years we're finding the 'quality control' is
not what it used to be ." He says police labs in Toronto have shown
that ecstasy or e (clinically known as MDMA) is often laced with other
substances including harder drugs, PCP and even Draino. Chase says
drug patterns in Toronto are often repeated across Canada and noted
that in Montreal police are now finding more and more laced ecstasy.
According to Chase, the urban myth that pure ecstasy comes from
Amsterdam is used to lure people into thinking that what they are
getting isn't cut. Police in Toronto say that their busts reveal the
pills come from a place a lot less glamorous -- Ontario.
"Ravers recognized that what they are doing is risky," says Weber.
"They want information. 'When I take this drug what's going to happen?
How long is the high going to last? Am I going to be seeing things? Is
it OK if I mix it with other drugs?' "
Weber believes we should take a two-pronged approach when it comes to
youth drug use -- discouragement coupled with practical information.
"We're not dealing with a perfect world," he says. "It's a given that
a relatively small percentage of young people will go to raves. Out of
that small percentage some of them will be doing drugs. Out of that,
some will smoke marijuana only. Some will smoke pot and do ecstasy.
Some will do ecstasy and acid, etc, etc.
That's your given, so what are we going to do about it?
"Sure you could try the 'Just Say No' approach, but we've seen that
that's been unsuccessful here and abroad. For the kids who are going
to be doing these drugs, we have to work with them to teach them how
to use them safely ." He suggests using pamphlets, for instance, since
ravers are used to picking up party flyers.
Weber feels closing raves down would be a huge mistake. "That's not
the answer ," he says. The study notes that the "shift to 'legal
space' has helped ensure raves have become safer over time." Says
Weber: "At least now they are relatively above ground. They have
running water. When they're in the city they're close to fire
departments, the police, hospitals. If you shut them down they'll only
go underground, and who knows where they're going to show up.
"Illicit drug use isn't something that just happened in the last
couple years. It was going on in the '60s. The names of the drugs
change. At least at a rave there are precautions being taken (on-duty
police officers and ambulance services on the premises) as opposed to
an event 20 years ago that maybe wouldn't have those things there."
But, media accounts notwithstanding, says Weber, raves are not just
about drugs. When participants were asked why they went to parties,
Weber said he was shocked to hear "they like it because it was an
escape, a mini vacation. Some would go on to say, 'My family life
wasn't that good, I can be with my friends and get away from it all.'
For somebody who's in their mid-twenties - and some of these kids were
high school students - to hear them say, 'I need a vacation, I need a
break, I need a family,' that's something worth hearing. They're not
going there just to get high, they're going there because it's where
their friends are. They have problems with other groups of people."
The non-judgmental atmosphere was a huge draw for many considered to
be social outcasts. "Some kids, the computer geek types, they'd be
'nerds' within their school, yet they go here and they'd be the top of
the heap if they were into programming their computers and making
music," says Weber.
"Many of the women were saying, 'I was treated as a person, not as a
sex object . It wasn't a whole night of guys trying to get into my
pants.' Even some of the overweight kids could go and be [comfortable]
at the party."
According to the study, most of the people who attended raves came
from what was loosely defined as middle-class backgrounds. "Raving was
recognized as being an expensive leisure activity." The study reported
that Toronto raves were predominantly attended by Caucasians, but were
comfortable places for people from different racial backgrounds as
well as for young gay men and lesbians. "Ginos" and "Ginas" (Weber
defines the terms as "derogatory labels usually associated with
individuals of southern European origin") were the one group not liked
by several younger respondents.
"They're like the big body-builder people," said one 19-year-old male
quoted in Weber's study, "like doing steroids and like bringing their
little girlfriends along with them and just - they just - all they
care to do is go there and get drugs and look at women all night.
They're not really there for the music. They're not there for
partying, not there for the vibe. They're not there for anything."
Many of the young people interviewed, in fact, stated that "only going
to the parties to use drugs was inappropriate behaviour." The media
was blamed fo r providing a warped picture of raves and advertising
easy access to drugs that attracted many non-ravers to the scene.
So what does Weber think of the media's most recent effort, the cover
story in the current issue of Toronto Life, "Adventures in Clubland,"
by Ian Brown? Weber found the article "disappointing." Ravers, he
says, would be "disgusted again. They'd say, 'Same old kind of stories
again. Kids staying up all night and getting high.' Those pictures
that were in Toronto Life are the kind of things that would drive
these kids up a wall."
Det. Rick Chase also felt the Toronto Life article was off the mark:
"From what I know of the scene, I think it's an exaggeration." For
example, when Brown states that "everyone agrees that at least eight
out of 10 people in any given rave club are high on [ecstasy]," the
drug squad detective says he "finds that hard to believe."
Several Toronto papers have "had some pretty questionable articles
over the last couple of years," adds Weber. "Unfortunately, it's what
everybody reads. If this is the information Mr. and Mississauga are
getting, it's not the whole picture."
Weber admits that "yes, there are a lot of drugs being used there and
sure something needs to be done about it." However, he points out that
Toronto's emergency rooms are "not seeing a huge number of kids who
have been at raves overdosing. We'd hear about it."
Most of the people Weber interviewed were not spiralling toward a drug
death. Doing ecstasy did not automatically lead to overdosing and drug
addiction. "The same things were coming up around cocaine in the early
'80s, where one snort and you're hooked for life," says Weber.
"There's more alcohol-related damage coming out of bars. You see
stories where one or two kids have died from attending raves. There
are probably more people killed on a weekend in the summer because of
drunk drivers than there are in an entire year coming out of raves.
"The kids recognized they would grow out of it. It's a two-year shelf
life. Most people don't want to party all night for the rest of their
lives."
Damian
> that's been unsuccessful here and abroad. For the kids who are going
> to be doing these drugs, we have to work with them to teach them how
> to use them safely ." He suggests using pamphlets, for instance, since
> ravers are used to picking up party flyers.
Our government has already done this... :)
> "We're not dealing with a perfect world," he says. "It's a given that
> a relatively small percentage of young people will go to raves. Out of
> that small percentage some of them will be doing drugs. Out of that,
..
> example, when Brown states that "everyone agrees that at least eight
> out of 10 people in any given rave club are high on [ecstasy]," the
> drug squad detective says he "finds that hard to believe."
I don't suppose there are any real stats on the proportion of drug users
to non-drug users anywhere? I'd like to see them.
I've found when you go to a party, you can spot a lot of the drug-users
by the way they keep dancing when the music stops :)... but you only get
a vague idea of how many do/don't that way.
Anyone got any experiences / opinions / two-sided arguments to do with
drug-free raving?
Personally I'm drug-free all the time every time.. part of the buzz is
that it's just me and the music, and nothing else between.
--
Later.. Damian ICQ 7591965
Get paid to surf the web: www.getpaidnz.cjb.net
Icheer23
sober, which i usually am now. if i feel like dancing, i just do it...even if
i am in the grocery store or something. it comes as an expression of happiness
and i am not gonna let tha fact that there is no music stop my happiness:)
As for drug-free raving? hell yeah, i am all about it! i mean, am the type of
person that can dance all night without the aid of any drugs so its very cool.
i dunno, i cant really say which is better...they are two really different
things. all i can say is, i always get really really hungry when i go sober :)
thats no fun.... ~jen:)
[+//Tania//-]
but fuck I am so sick of people saying "Ohh I hate ginos and ginas". Not
all ginos and ginas are the same, just becuz you've come across a couple
you hate, doesn't mean you hate them all. We complain about the
stereotypes related to the rave scene, but what are we doing here? The
same thing about another group of people. Where I live it is probably 99%
ginos and ginas and I get along with them just fine, in fact, my boyfriend
is a gino.
And according to the definition in the article, "derogatory labels usually
associated with individuals of southern European origin"... since I'm
European, I suppose I'm a gina too?
I wish people would learn to stop being label freaks... the only label I
have to live up to is "me".
-Wilykat-
think it's when you'll run into a large group of them (8 - 20) or so
sitting in the corner of a party, taking up a LOT of space without
(generally) doing anything. They won't move, they aren't courteous, and
they aren't part of the vibe.
It's not that ginos are the only exclusive group to take this kind of
thing up for a hobby, it's just that when the clubs shut down for the
night you'll get handfuls of them showing up at the next best "safe
haven" for them to be, doing exactly what they were doing at the club as
mentioned above, which is common for 'clubbers'.(known from experience
and steretype).
Any group that does this kind of thing just tends to take away from the
vibe of a party. The Unity of a party begins to degrade when more and
more people stop showing Respect towards others (another thing I find
annoying about clubs - YOU are part of YOUR clique, you aren't supposed
to associate with the OTHER cliques at the club). It's probably that
ginos tend to frequent raves more than thugs and hiphoppers that they
earned the stereotype as "Those who sit in the corner and bring down the
vibe.", jus' cuz they're there more often.
Anoyone who follows the PLUR(R) motto shoudn't show any disrespect to
ginos, but if a large group of them show up then a certain behavior is
expected. How hard is it for them to get up and join with everyone else
anyway? (dance or whatever!) =)
-jus my thoughts-
ramble to follow,
From personal experience, shortly after 2am at a party (out here in
Toronto) a mass flood of people came into the party and promptly took up
a whole corner of the bulding (smallish party.. was actually a rented
club space, specifically for a rave, as advertised) and were doing
massive amount of K(etamine) until eventually the party ended. They did
nothing to help the vibe, it was just simply a place to go an' get
fucked up on chemicals. I'm sure they were enjoying the music, and I'm
happy for them that they were.. but they were still in the way and
didn't seem at all interested that there were other people there.
"[+//Tania//-]" wrote:
>
> Ok, I'm glad this guy's message is that we're not out to just get high...
> but fuck I am so sick of people saying "Ohh I hate ginos and ginas". Not
> all ginos and ginas are the same, just becuz you've come across a couple
> you hate, doesn't mean you hate them all. We complain about the
> stereotypes related to the rave scene, but what are we doing here? The
> same thing about another group of people. Where I live it is probably 99%
> ginos and ginas and I get along with them just fine, in fact, my boyfriend
> is a gino.
> And according to the definition in the article, "derogatory labels usually
> associated with individuals of southern European origin"... since I'm
> European, I suppose I'm a gina too?
> I wish people would learn to stop being label freaks... the only label I
> have to live up to is "me".
> > Most of the people Weber interviewed were not spiralling toward a drug
> > death. Doing ecstasy did not automatically lead to overdosing and drug
> > addiction. "The same things were coming up around cocaine in the early
> > '80s, where one snort and you're hooked for life," says Weber.
--
ICQ#3351587 wilykat on
FM
- - - - - - -------- - - - - - -
meow
- - - - - - -------- - - - - - -
black kat industries PGP able
mtnsprite
always mean you'll have any appetite. Human bodies are weird things.
:o)
Bon appetite,
Stephen
--
m t n s p r i t e
http://stephen.cjb.net/
icq: 3787842
"Icheer23" <iche...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000409134709...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
Damian
> sober, which i usually am now. if i feel like dancing, i just do it...even if
> i am in the grocery store or something. it comes as an expression of happiness
> and i am not gonna let tha fact that there is no music stop my happiness:)
I know what you mean... me too :)
> As for drug-free raving? hell yeah, i am all about it! i mean, am the type of
> person that can dance all night without the aid of any drugs so its very cool.
> i dunno, i cant really say which is better...they are two really different
> things. all i can say is, i always get really really hungry when i go sober :)
> thats no fun.... ~jen:)
Take a Snickers or too. Works nice for me... but they make you thirsty.
Damian
> always mean you'll have any appetite. Human bodies are weird things.
> :o)
Have you found that usually when you bring food, you're never hungry,
and when you don't, you are? :) I'm sure it's all pissylogical.
pH 0
definitely counts. I always eat a Power Bar or something like that just to
make sure I have plenty of stuff to metabolize. After I while you learn to
really hate the taste, but they work really well. And they're pretty small
and durable so you can take an extra on inside to eat if you get hungry.
pH 0
"Icheer23" <iche...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000409134709...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
[+//Tania//-]
'ravers' who sit in the corner, take up a lot of space, won't move, aren't
courteous and aren't part of the vibe. To say that all 'ginos' and 'ginas' are like
that is like saying all 'ravers' are so sweet and nice. And, realistically, we know
that's not true. I've met my fair share of rude ravers. I know I know, some 'ginos'
and 'ginas' are the biggest pricks, but we shouldn't define the whole bunch by the
couple of rotten apples we encounter =)
*hugz*
*Ta*
-Wilykat- wrote:
> > Ok, I'm glad this guy's message is that we're not out to just get high...
> > but fuck I am so sick of people saying "Ohh I hate ginos and ginas". Not
> > all ginos and ginas are the same, just becuz you've come across a couple
> > you hate, doesn't mean you hate them all. We complain about the
> > stereotypes related to the rave scene, but what are we doing here? The
> > same thing about another group of people. Where I live it is probably 99%
> > ginos and ginas and I get along with them just fine, in fact, my boyfriend
> > is a gino.
> > And according to the definition in the article, "derogatory labels usually
> > associated with individuals of southern European origin"... since I'm
> > European, I suppose I'm a gina too?
> > I wish people would learn to stop being label freaks... the only label I
> > have to live up to is "me".
>
> > > Most of the people Weber interviewed were not spiralling toward a drug
> > > death. Doing ecstasy did not automatically lead to overdosing and drug
> > > addiction. "The same things were coming up around cocaine in the early
> > > '80s, where one snort and you're hooked for life," says Weber.
>
axisdev
In article <38F24069...@sympatico.ca>,
> > > Ok, I'm glad this guy's message is that we're not out to just get high...
> > > but fuck I am so sick of people saying "Ohh I hate ginos and ginas". Not
> > > all ginos and ginas are the same, just becuz you've come across a couple
> > > you hate, doesn't mean you hate them all. We complain about the
> > > stereotypes related to the rave scene, but what are we doing here? The
> > > same thing about another group of people. Where I live it is probably 99%
> > > ginos and ginas and I get along with them just fine, in fact, my boyfriend
> > > is a gino.
> > > And according to the definition in the article, "derogatory labels usually
> > > associated with individuals of southern European origin"... since I'm
> > > European, I suppose I'm a gina too?
> > > I wish people would learn to stop being label freaks... the only label I
> > > have to live up to is "me".
> >
> > > > Most of the people Weber interviewed were not spiralling toward a drug
> > > > death. Doing ecstasy did not automatically lead to overdosing and drug
> > > > addiction. "The same things were coming up around cocaine in the early
> > > > '80s, where one snort and you're hooked for life," says Weber.
> >
> > --
> > ICQ#3351587 wilykat on
> > FM
> > - - - - - - -------- - - - - - -
> > meow
> > - - - - - - -------- - - - - - -
> > black kat industries PGP able
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Johnny
this, but now you saved me typing.
I found it very hypocritical that ravers talked about the non-judgemental
atmosphere, yet hated Italians. After reading that, if I were Italian, I
would be scared to go to a rave. I suppose that there will always be
stupidity wherever I go, so I guess I shouldn't get so worked up about it. I
also love the fact that you are only you. I have been saying that about
myself for years.
Johnny
"[+//Tania//-]" wrote:
--
"You only live once so take hold of the chance
Don't end up like others, same song and dance" -Metallica
"Stop trying to hit me and hit me!" -Morpheus
[+//Tania//-]
Well, being Italian myself, I feel the need to say 'Hey listen up, we're not all
the same! Just like not all French, English, Polish, etc. etc. etc. are the
same.' But some people will never understand.
noo...@housemusic.com
>
> =) I'm happy to see you agree with me.
> Well, being Italian myself, I feel the need to say 'Hey listen up, we're not all
> the same! Just like not all French, English, Polish, etc. etc. etc. are the
> same.' But some people will never understand.
I wonder where this prejudice against Italians came from?
I personally feel very comfortable around Italians and generally have
good connection with them.
For me, people with with mediterranian/southern european background are
the easiest to get along with. I think they're generally more relaxed,
open minded and enjoying life.
L
dee...@nexicom.net
what is known as litte italy. all the old men out on the street yelling
at eachother...and all their wives ten paces behind..very old world i guess
i don't think i'd want live anywhere else if i moved back either. you
guys are making me miss it. a bakery right down stairs , the best
cappacino's on the corner at the place NEXT to starbucks. and you could
walk a block in any direction and enjoy some of the finest dinning or
best beer patio's in the city. soto voce..my fav..means soft voice a
wonderful wine bar or right across the street at cafe diplimatico..the
'dip' for pitchers and sight seeing! and i used to go to this crazy
latin gay bar called el convento rico. they had some wild cross dressed
floor shows..and latin dance lessons on sundays.
well..i know it has little to do with what your talking about..but
thanks for indulging me.
sleepy g
what are you talking about anyway? i've lost the plot
noo...@housemusic.com wrote:
>
> "[+//Tania//-]" wrote:
> >
> > =) I'm happy to see you agree with me.
> > Well, being Italian myself, I feel the need to say 'Hey listen up, we're not all
> > the same! Just like not all French, English, Polish, etc. etc. etc. are the
> > same.' But some people will never understand.
>