Promoting Raves a Federal Offense in the US????
skahound
Very scary stuff. Read the proposed bill for yourself. Type in
thomas.loc.gov in your browser and then in the search for bill by bill
number area type HR3782 and scroll down to sec. 416a. This has *GOT* to be
some sort of April fools joke!
PLUR-
skahound
(copied text as follows):
Acrobat: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?
dbname=107_cong_bills&docid=f:h3782ih.txt.pdf
Normal: thomas.loc.gov then put in HR3782
The proposed House/Senate bill would make promoting any event where there
*might* be drug use (and raves are mentioned) a federal crime punishable by
up to 9 years in prison.
The rest of the bill seems like common sense policy against methamphetamines
until section 416a pops up and slaps me in the face like a grim look into an
Orwellian future where "thought-crimes" are punishable.
have a look at this .. it's wild stuff.
cheers
levon louis aka lunatex
[ewax records-houston. ciby-detroit. sparkle-u.k.]
niki a tru prty kid in chi twn
> Found this post at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cflraves/message/25663 .
> Very scary stuff. Read the proposed bill for yourself. Type in
> thomas.loc.gov in your browser and then in the search for bill by bill
> number area type HR3782 and scroll down to sec. 416a. This has *GOT* to be
> some sort of April fools joke!
>
> PLUR-
>
> skahound
I believe it. Shit like this has been happening in Chicago for
months. In the shy even a DJ will get fined if he is busted spinning
at a party. It's like this because people think all we are about is
drugs. And that parties are just one big drug orgy. People who aren't
party kids really fail to realize this just isn't so. It's really more
about good vibes, music :), and the kids (or family as I see it)
Fucked up as it is there's nothing we can do.
Erika RollerGirl
There's always something you can do, even if you don't think you're making any
difference. If we all do our little part, all the little things we do add up to
a really big voice for our cause. It couldn't hurt to try and fight it, right?
See the thread entitled: " Very Important: HR 3782 " for something you can do.
And by the way, pass this stuff on to your friends, the more people who know
about this, the better. If you'd like, I'll forward you the mass email message
I sent out to everyone I know, just tell me if you want it and I'd be happy to
send.
Peace,
Erika RollerGirl
niki a tru prty kid in chi twn
Sure kid you can send it.
Kilgore Trout
> months. In the shy even a DJ will get fined if he is busted spinning
> at a party. It's like this because people think all we are about is
> drugs. And that parties are just one big drug orgy. People who aren't
> party kids really fail to realize this just isn't so. It's really more
> about good vibes, music :), and the kids (or family as I see it)
> Fucked up as it is there's nothing we can do.
I can see how people would believe it's all about drugs. Have you looked at
the latest issue of mixmag? I saw it in a bookstore and i think the word
"drugs" was on the cover twice. Last month there was an article explaining
what happens when you get caught with drugs on you. Stuff like this gives
the wrong impression.
Kev
Over The Top entertainment
read it. The magazine is only guiding you, telling you that should you ever
have drugs, that you should be aware of the consequences.
This doesn't necessarily mean go out and take them, just watch yourself.
"Kilgore Trout" <lounge...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a8n3n4$t779e$1...@ID-134455.news.dfncis.de...
Kilgore Trout
> read it. The magazine is only guiding you, telling you that should you
ever
> have drugs, that you should be aware of the consequences.
>
> This doesn't necessarily mean go out and take them, just watch yourself.
I'm not saying it gives me the wrong impression, I don't think that everyone
who goes out to a club gets all drugged up first. I'm just saying it can
sort of be used as propaganda against us. If someone is trying to say that
kids who go out are doing drugs, then they're going to pull out the lastest
copy of mixmag and say "look, it says drugs twice on the cover. here's an
article about drugs. etc. etc." It doesn't give the wrong impression to
the people who read the magazine and go out to have a good time and hear
good music, but it can give the wrong impression to people who don't. I'm
sure it's great advice for those who have pills on them, but it's basically
advertising that an illegal activity might be taking place. Then we end up
with stupid laws, like promoting a party being a federal offense.
Kev
Over The Top entertainment
I think the government in the US (that's where I think your from) should
come over here to the UK and see how promoters work over here. It is not
illegal to promote a party over here as long as you follow the correct laws,
for example, having contracted doormen at the door, having a certain amount
of first aid staff at hand etc.
AJ
"Kilgore Trout" <lounge...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a8n7od$tg7j9$1...@ID-134455.news.dfncis.de...
Koncept
then they should focus on the music. There is no excuse for this crap.
--k
Kilgore Trout
>
> I think the government in the US (that's where I think your from) should
> come over here to the UK and see how promoters work over here. It is not
> illegal to promote a party over here as long as you follow the correct
laws,
> for example, having contracted doormen at the door, having a certain
amount
> of first aid staff at hand etc.
I'm in Canada, but I live about as close to the US as you can be and still
be in Canada.
It sounds like they're doing it right in the UK. If the promoter follows
the laws and does everything by the book, they shouldn't be held responsible
if something goes wrong or someone decides to bring drugs there. In the US
and Canada no one takes any responsibility for anything anymore. There's
always someone to point the finger at. If went to a party and got caught
with drugs, it wouldn't be unrealistic for me to sue the dealer and the guy
organizing and promoting. Stuff like that has gotten totally out of hand
lately. I read an article about a guy stealing a car, getting caught, then
sueing the owner of the car because he had left the keys in it! And right
now some guy in jail is sueing the correctional services department because
they keep waking him up for head count and he's losing to much sleep.
Kev
Over The Top entertainment
"Kilgore Trout" <lounge...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a8pr0b$u5694$1...@ID-134455.news.dfncis.de...
Michaeldekka
wish i could go live in the uk,... actually nah melbournes better. cheaper
bikkies over there tho ;oş
"Over The Top entertainment" <Frenc...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:a8pskd$6d0$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
get up to get down
>then they should focus on the music. There is no excuse for this crap.
i could be wrong, but i think mixmag is a british publication. i used to read
that and ministry on a fairly regular basis, and they both have drug references
and connotations all over the place. then they have those sections where they
go to a club and ask a bunch of people the same question, get their answer and
take their picture. 8 out of every 10 people in those pictures have eyes as big
as saucers. it seems to me that the british try a lot less than us to cover up
the fact that drugs and the club/party scene are inseparable. where there's
smoke, there's fire, so to speak. i bet that at gatecrasher around 4 am on a
sunday morning, no less than 80% of the people there are on <something> it's
probably more like 90%.
i just don't buy the 'it's all about the music, man' business. don't be naive,
it's not. the music plays an integral part, but it's not the whole thing.
you can't deny the fact that the catalyst for the formation of this entire
scene/culture was the mass influx of mdma into places like britain and ibiza in
the late 80's. chemicals were there at the beginning, and they'll be there at
the end.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ryan
pass the peas->
Michael Cargill
news:B8D5BEEC.D29A%the_...@nospam-hotmail.com...
> The point is that this is unnecessary content. If the mag is about music,
> then they should focus on the music. There is no excuse for this crap.
It certainly isnt uneccesary. People who listen to the music that the
magazine is about, also go to raves. Some will also take drugs at these
rave. The magazine is simply telling these people what to expect if they
get caught.
Shaza
clubbing lifestyle magazines that simply have a strong musical influence.
And unfortunately (or fortunately) we have to admit that drugs play a BIG
role in clubbing lifestyles. I don't wanna start an "I don't do drugs I'm in
it for the music thread", and I'm not saying I agree with the US perspective
on Rave culture (I don't). Not wanting to be cliche but I think until you
start doing Ecstasy and cocaine do you realise just how wide spread and
influential it is.
"Koncept" <the_...@nospam-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:B8D5BEEC.D29A%the_...@nospam-hotmail.com...
Koncept
be in trouble when you get caught? I have had my experiences over the years
and I still stand by what I said. This is unnecessary content. When I pick
up a MIXMAG, I want to know about music. The rest is cultural. If drugs
are present in the culture, then fine. Do they really need to be featured
on a front page? What kind of message is that marketing? Drugs before
music perhaps?
Schools are for drug education. Friends are for drug education. The
internet is full of drug information (you can even get recipes) .
Parties are being shut down now because they have been identified as "drug
parties" and from this mode of thought, the US scene is going to hell. The
Canadian scene is now seeming to follow suit. It all entails.
Even if this shit gets by in the UK, when there is no scene in the rest of
the world, it won't be standing so strong anymore. . .
> From: "Michael Cargill" <mikeme...@hotmail.com> Newsgroups:
> alt.rave,alt.music.dance,alt.music.house,alt.music.jungle,alt.music.techno,alt
> .music.trance,alt.drugs.ecstasy Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 13:09:02 +0100 Subject:
> Re: Promoting Raves a Federal Offense in the US????
>
Over The Top entertainment
"Michaeldekka" <michae...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3cb159dd$0$4304$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Frank
before that the wigan casino, mods bars, woodstock like
festivals etc. had the "drug party" tag. i don´t think mixmag
came up with something new when it puts this issue on the
frontpage. so i can hardly see, why it should result in some anti-
party or anti-housemusic action. GLADLY the european situ-
ation can´t be compared to what´s going on in the us or
canada. sure those actions in america suck big way, because
they use the drugs-tag to shut down any music event that is
not firmly based on us-mainstream culture.
and i´m glad if widely avaiable magazines help to promote
a save use of drugs, for those not fortunate enough to get
properly informed at school (more likely "junkie"-disinforma-
tion), friends or from the net.
cu
frank
Kilgore Trout
find somewhere to stay? Seriously, moving to the UK would be awesome. I'm
just finishing university in like 2 weeks, maybe once I get some experience
in my field I'll try to get a job overseas. How's the weather there? I
heard it's pretty dreary.
Kev
> i was gonna say the same thing!
>
> wish i could go live in the uk,... actually nah melbournes better. cheaper
> bikkies over there tho ;oş
>
Over The Top entertainment
Check out www.bbc.co.uk/weather for yourself.
And one other thing, there's no chance of you stayin' at my place! HEHE
AJ
"Kilgore Trout" <lounge...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a909et$va571$1...@ID-134455.news.dfncis.de...
Kilgore Trout
Come on, it'll only be for a few weeks. I'll be quiet, i promise!
Kev
Saint Jude, Patron of Lost Causes
> The point is that this is unnecessary content. If the mag is about music,
> then they should focus on the music. There is no excuse for this crap.
But the drugs and the music are interconnected. I don't
think you can truly understand/apreciate the aesthetic at work behind
a lot of dance/techno without understanding the drug experience.
(Have you ever in your life met a DJ that hadn't used MDMA?)
If you were trying to claim techno/house music has nothing to
do with drugs, I just don't agree. You don't need drugs to enjoy
it, but drugs are very much involved with the culture and aesthetic
IMO.
Mattheus
> Ok, i'm gonna go get a passport tomorrow. Can I crash at your place until I
> find somewhere to stay? Seriously, moving to the UK would be awesome. I'm
> just finishing university in like 2 weeks, maybe once I get some experience
> in my field I'll try to get a job overseas. How's the weather there? I
> heard it's pretty dreary.
>
> Kev
>
The weather is mostly pretty shitty, but then u won't notice it when
ur on drugs anyway... (=:
Stanley Jones
> think you can truly understand/apreciate the aesthetic at work behind
> a lot of dance/techno without understanding the drug experience.
I've used the following analogy when speaking about drugs and their place in
electronic music.
Imagine your evening as a journey to a far away place. There are many
different modes of transportation that will take you there. Some may prefer
the fastest route possible and spend their entire evening at their
destination. For me, I prefer the equivalent of walking. At the end of the
evening, I've ended up in the same place as you but along the way I've
noticed things like the cracks in the sidewalk, the birds chirping, the way
the sun casts shadows of the clouds, and more things that you miss when
you're merely glancing out the window of the bullet train from time to time.
If you choose to use drugs to help you understand/appreciate aesthetics, be
my guest. However, discrediting my understanding and appreciation because
I've remained sober is something that pains me.
> (Have you ever in your life met a DJ that hadn't used MDMA?)
Is this a real question? Of *course* I have...
> If you were trying to claim techno/house music has nothing to
> do with drugs, I just don't agree.
I think that the original claim was that on a single magazine cover, drugs
were mentioned three times. Even if you acknowledge that drugs are part of
the scene, are they so much so that they deserve three separate mentions on
a cover? The sparkplug is definitely part of an automobile, but Car &
Driver magazine doesn't have *three* sparkplug cover stories in one issue.
Further, given the state of raves in the U.S. lately, their choice to play
up the drug angle is rather risky. Granted, Mixmag is a U.K. publication,
but they certainly have an American audience. I think that the original
point was, "Don't they realize that this doesn't help the cause?" more than
any statement on drugs and their place.
Keep shinin',
Stan
Frank
music, drugs. you can understand each
a bit, but if you experience them at the
same time IT´S DIFFERENT. doesn´t
mean it´s good to cane it, but it has been
like this for ages. meeting, dance, sub-
stances. a true mankind experience.
cu
frank
Koncept
w/ w-out drugs. . ."
My point was (again, read my quote) "If the mag is about music, then focus
on the music." You are very much correct with the cultural comment,
however. Just wish that could be kept a little more underground so to
speak.
--k
Koncept
> From: "Pablos" <phw...@hotmail.com>
> Organization: Telefonica Data Espagna
> Newsgroups:
> alt.rave,alt.music.breakbeat,alt.music.dance,alt.music.house,alt.music.jungle,
> alt.music.techno,alt.music.trance,alt.drugs.ecstasy
> Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 21:03:26 +0100
> Subject: Re: Promoting Raves a Federal Offense in the US????
>
> "Saint Jude, Patron of Lost Causes" <saint...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> message news:54977b7d.02041...@posting.google.com...
>> Koncept <the_...@nospam-hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:<B8D5BEEC.D29A%the_...@nospam-hotmail.com>...
>>
>>> The point is that this is unnecessary content. If the mag is about
> music,
>>> then they should focus on the music. There is no excuse for this crap.
>>
>> But the drugs and the music are interconnected. I don't
>> think you can truly understand/apreciate the aesthetic at work behind
>> a lot of dance/techno without understanding the drug experience.
>> (Have you ever in your life met a DJ that hadn't used MDMA?)
>
> I completely disagree. It's true drugs play a massive role in trance
> culture, but you don't need one to compliment the other! And yes, I have met
> DJs that don't use drugs to improve their performance and are doing
> amazingly well!!
>
>> If you were trying to claim techno/house music has nothing to
>> do with drugs, I just don't agree. You don't need drugs to enjoy
>> it, but drugs are very much involved with the culture and aesthetic
>> IMO.
>
> True, there's no doubt a lot of ppl are looking for something extra -
> something spiritual maybe, but u can get completely lost in the music and
> let it take u on journey without needing drugs to "aid" the experience.
>
> P@blos
>
>
>
>
>
Mattheus
> If you were to do drugs, do you really need a mag to tell you that you will
> be in trouble when you get caught? I have had my experiences over the years
> and I still stand by what I said. This is unnecessary content.
Sure u don't need a magazine to tell you that you will be "in trouble
if you get caught", but Mixmag is saying a little bit more than that,
e.g. giving advice on how to answer the standard questions that the
police will ask you and so on. To, say, a frightened 18-year old
clubber caught in possession and with no experience of dealing with
the police this could be very useful information, don't you agree?
> When I pick
> up a MIXMAG, I want to know about music. The rest is cultural. If drugs
> are present in the culture, then fine. Do they really need to be featured
> on a front page? What kind of message is that marketing? Drugs before
> music perhaps?
Not "drugs before music" - I am looking at some Mixmag front covers
now and music / clubs are featured far more prominently than drugs.
Drugs are mentioned, but I think that is only right when most of the
mags readers will be taking them.
> Schools are for drug education. Friends are for drug education. The
> internet is full of drug information (you can even get recipes) .
Drugs info from schools is most likely to be along the lines of "just
say no". Friends are a useful source of info, but they can't really
do big surveys on drug use (such as the one published by Mixmag in its
Feb 2002 edition, whicjh I found very informative).
> Parties are being shut down now because they have been identified as "drug
> parties" and from this mode of thought, the US scene is going to hell. The
> Canadian scene is now seeming to follow suit. It all entails.
That sucks, but its a bit unfair to blame it all on MixMag - as
someone already pointed out this is a UK publication mainly intended
for a UK readership - almost all the content is UK-oriented so I am
surprised to hear it is even sold in the States, so the editors are
hardly likely to be thinking about US politics when they decide what
to publish.
If the mag can use such influence as it has to make sure young people
in Britain are better informed about what they are taking & how to
stay safe, then that is surely the responsible thing for them to do?
> Even if this shit gets by in the UK, when there is no scene in the rest of
> the world, it won't be standing so strong anymore. . .
Surely things can't be that bad???
Mattheus
Nate Hankins
fines one the DJ's for expressing themself isnt that against the our bill of
rights with freedom of speech/expression.
It's just an idea that I wonder if anyone or the government has had any
friction about the bill of rights.
nate
"niki a tru prty kid in chi twn" <linn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:69b3988f.02040...@posting.google.com...
> "skahound" <skaho...@mpinet.net> wrote in message
news:<uaq277l...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Found this post at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cflraves/message/25663
.
> > Very scary stuff. Read the proposed bill for yourself. Type in
> > thomas.loc.gov in your browser and then in the search for bill by bill
> > number area type HR3782 and scroll down to sec. 416a. This has *GOT* to
be
> > some sort of April fools joke!
> >
> > PLUR-
> >
> > skahound
>
> I believe it. Shit like this has been happening in Chicago for
> months. In the shy even a DJ will get fined if he is busted spinning
> at a party. It's like this because people think all we are about is
> drugs. And that parties are just one big drug orgy. People who aren't
> party kids really fail to realize this just isn't so. It's really more
> about good vibes, music :), and the kids (or family as I see it)
> Fucked up as it is there's nothing we can do.
Stanley Jones
> fines one the DJ's for expressing themself isnt that against the our bill of
> rights with freedom of speech/expression.
I think that the right to Peaceable Assembly might be the stick to wave.
Keep shinin',
Stan
Koncept
> From: matthe...@kappapackaging.com (Mattheus)
> Organization: http://groups.google.com/
> Newsgroups:
> alt.rave,alt.music.dance,alt.music.house,alt.music.jungle,alt.music.techno,alt
> .music.trance,alt.drugs.ecstasy
> Date: 15 Apr 2002 03:06:18 -0700
> Subject: Re: Promoting Raves a Federal Offense in the US????
>
> That sucks, but its a bit unfair to blame it all on MixMag - as
> someone already pointed out this is a UK publication mainly intended
> for a UK readership - almost all the content is UK-oriented so I am
> surprised to hear it is even sold in the States, so the editors are
> hardly likely to be thinking about US politics when they decide what
> to publish.
I was not blaming it on MixMag. I was just suggesting that more people than
you imagine draw conclusions from mag covers like this. . . Even if they
have nothing do with the scene. People see drugs, they think drugs. NUFF
SAID. MixMag should keep the content (now that I read your points), but
bury it in the mag and not make it so obvious. UK publication or not, this
is a global village so time to think like we live in one.
> If the mag can use such influence as it has to make sure young people
> in Britain are better informed about what they are taking & how to
> stay safe, then that is surely the responsible thing for them to do?
>
>> Even if this shit gets by in the UK, when there is no scene in the rest of
>> the world, it won't be standing so strong anymore. . .
>
> Surely things can't be that bad???
They are. . . Don't even go out much anymore to tell you the truth.
>
> Mattheus
Koncept
inside. . . hmmmm. . . just parties because they are the only places in the
world with drugs inside. *Ya right.
Think about this. You scatter 10,000 people around a city. Of that group,
one dies from drugs in a night. No big deal really (other than this dude
dying). Why is it so different when all these people are under one roof?
*conspiracy theory: This music is making too much money and growing too
fast. The major labels can't get a piece of the pie and busts and bills
occur as a result of payoffs. Big brother wants to feed you a steady diet
of n'sync and britney spears people and can't understand that DJ's are the
new route of promotion. Futhermore, not sure if you know, but they are even
trying to shut down online radio stations by imposing fees that can't
possibly be paid unless you are owned by a mega corporation. . .
> From: "Nate Hankins" <tliv...@hotmail.com>
> Newsgroups:
> alt.rave,alt.music.breakbeat,alt.music.dance,alt.music.house,alt.music.jungle,
> alt.music.techno,alt.music.trance,alt.drugs.ecstasy
> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:35:24 -0500
> Subject: Re: Promoting Raves a Federal Offense in the US????
>