Tyler's lover speaks
Carol
(ŁŁŁĀ§) Date: Tue, Jun 17, 2003,5:59pm (EST+1) To: clu...@webtv.net (Carol)
Subject: Re:(no subject) Yes Carol I am in fact cleaning out my mail storage
and just coming upwith little odds and ends that I think maybe you can place
in yourQ-Files. Yes it is unfortunate that Tyler does not care about his
group or theposters in it, but this is Tyler Wyatt as you and I know. I
rememberTyler telling me after 'T' went to visit him how 'T' gave him
thecreeps and he felt uncomfortable having 'T' in his apartment and how
hewas scared to go to sleep for fear that 'T' would sexually assault himin
his sleep. I e-mailed 'T' and told him all of this but I guess hechose not
to believe me. Tyler was forever telling me about how he did not trust this
person orthat person in Digital Rainbow and how he was just gonna shut the
groupdown and leave all of those people behind. I would never tell
anyonethat X is X and that he is the one that alerted you to theposting of
the pics in that group, so don't worry about that. Thingsthat you say to me
stay strictly between you and I. Yes Tyler did rely on me a lot, and that
was ok with me, as I was tryingto help him. I knew early on in our
friendship that Tyler was not rightmentally in some way or another, but felt
as though maybe I could helphim in some fashion. However I just could not
believe the allegationsmade against him regarding his sexual preference
towards teen boys.About 5 months prior to our friendship ending Tyler
started makingcomments to me in a very subtle manner about his attraction to
youngteen boys. I was immediately left with an uneasy feeling and
manyquestions that only Tyler could answer for me. One evening on the
phonewith him he began telling me about age of consent laws in Utica and
howhe had met a guy that was 17 y/o and was considering a relationship
withthis individual. I let him know of my disgust on this matter, and
endedour conversation when I realized that he was in fact not hearing a
wordI was saying. I immediately made the decision that I would continue tobe
Tylers friend, but would no longer defend him in his battles on theweb. This
person is a very sick individual and I only hope that he getsthe necessary
help that he needs, but doubt that he ever will. In myopinion this is a man
that belongs locked up either in jail or in amental facility of some type.
Just my humble opinion. Have a good dayCarol. Babs E-mail message
From: REA...@webtv.net (slave tizoc) Group:
alt.discuss.menofwebtv Subject: <WENDEL> Date: Wed, Sep
18, 2002, 4:08am Organization: WebTV Subscriber
Face me in E-mail, not the NG, ok? I'm sorry that I just jumped your
butt, but you attacked first. Want to know the *truth*? Talk to me. I
have *real-life* people who will tell you that Chris lied. I am going to
tell you some truths.
Please, read this entire post.
(And I DO still care about Chris..., God knows why, but I do...)
I NEVER hurt him physically.
I NEVER put a gun to his head.
He and I were together for 6 months, and he did the dishes 2 times.
He never helped clean the house, well, one time, shortly.
He was in the bedroom almost all day, ever day on the WebTV Plus *I*
bought him.
He NEVER-EVER shopped for groceries.
The night I picked him up at the bus stop, our first real life meeting.
He had me take him to
Walmart and charge stuff on one of my credit cards to get him
essentials, and junk he didn't need.
He lied and used false pretences to get me to wire him the money to get
to me in the first place. All kinda BS so I would take him in.
He is physically self-abusive.(Ask Dirk)
He never wanted to go anywhere, or do anything, well, besides going to
the theater or out to eat(in which I paid for the out food more). He
slept with my ex-boyfriend behind my back.. IN MY BED!(yes, so did I
*after* he did. Sorta for revenge)
Look, you don't even know me. You and I have never talked. You and I
have never met in real life. How on Earth can you be so unfair and
believe only one side? Get to know *me* before you judge me.
Thank You,
~RealFox~
I thought that this 'prequal' might be apropros.
E-mail message
From: Pierce...@webtv.net(Prince Kendal) Date: Mon, Jan 1, 2001,
9:20pm (EDT-2) To: Calic...@webtv.net (Carol) Subject: Re: Free From
Tyler
Hi Carol.
Nice to meet you .....I have heard ALLOT about you...tee hee......all
bad (from Chris), so I am sure that you are a delightful and and above
board individual.
I am unsure who Joey is, I received mush NASTY responses from the mass
mailing I sent in response to Tylers post. Like I care or know these
people......my intent was to educate his next victims. Unfortunately, I
deleted his account in front of him just before escorting him to my
front door and the curb. I had made him dump his luggage and retrieved
items such as jewelry, clothing, cd's, and personal mail.
To my knowledge, He did not have access to a pc in this house......but
towards the end of the month, he did go on LONG walks.....I was grateful
to have him out of the house.
I did watch him use other people to contact others for him. I do know
that he now has pc access....at Real Foxes:
REAL FOX aka/
Tizoc M. Corona
XXXX DXXXX Street Lot #0
North Charleston, South Carolina
20000
Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Other places and phone numbers that he called most frequently while I
was on the road or at the salon are
Lafayette La XXX-XXX-XXXX
Fayettevl NC XXX-XXX-XXXX
Russell ky XXX-XXX-XXXX
Little Rock AR XXX-XXX-XXXX
Rio Dell CA XXX-XXX-XXXX
Dunn NC XXX-XXX-XXXX
Grand Rapids MI XXX-XXX-XXXX
Seattle WA XXX-XXX-XXXX
He received allot of porn from mailings..I thing Reach Dave was one as
well as belonging to some pretty "interesting "egroups.....He was always
talking about protecting teens and preteens and made me kind of
sick....the old Shakespearian line,"My dear, thou protests too much"
came to mind..I am sorry , Carol, but the guy was disgusting and
Creepy!!!! Mr. ChrisXXXXXX LXX WXXXX.....is his name in full. If there
was ever a child molester.....it is he. To watch him looking at kids was
frightening....he leered and honestly drooled!
I have a couple of friends, definitely of age , but look quite young and
one of them left Thanksgiving dinner....mysteriously.he later told me
that Tyler kept staring at his crotch and making passes and trying to
touch him....No is not in Tyler's comprehension.....I do also know that
one evening I arrived home early from work and he was in the bathroom
and had left the web on of a Mature Man penetrating a VERY young boy's
anus.....ain't no way that kid was 18!
I also know that my box was reported to abuse more than once while he
was here....of course, he had no respect for any one else..... Come to
think of it.wasn't Joey one of his conquests to save?????? He was always
trying to get Dirk, and Real Fox to warn him about Male Male..who by the
way,Tyler accused of tormenting and raping teens...... All I know is
that chris is about the sickest person I have ever met... I do not know
if any of this will be helpful or not. Best of luck to you and your
endeavors...... Blessings for a New year to you!
Ken
Carol
E-mail message
From: XXX...@webtv.net (ŁŁŁĀ§)
Date: Wed, Jun 11, 2003,
9:23pm
To: clu...@webtv.net (Carol)
Subject: Re: Tyler excuses and
justifies ILLEGAL CHILD PORN!
.
.
.
Carol,
.
I fully understand the point that you are making in your posts. And I
commend you for your efforts in protecting our youth from child
PREDATORS. And by no means do I believe that you are homophobic as Tyler
Wyatt would have others believe.
.
.
.
We all know that only a sick perverse and very twisted individual would
overlook the fact that laws were broken when those photos were posted on
the internet.
.
.
.
Please also let me say that on behalf of my gay brothers and sisters out
here, that 99.9 % of us DO NOT agree with grown adults having sex with
minors (under 18) regardless of what age of consent laws say. I am very
active in my gay community and I assure you that MOST gay men frown upon
adult males having sexual relations with BOYS!!!!!! You have to wonder
about what type of mind a man has when he would even find a young boy
sexually attractive.......A SICK MIND, thats what type he has.
.
.
.
Please also let me explain that just because a person professes to be
homosexual, reads gay news, owns his own gay message forum, and has same
sex sex does not necessarily make him a part of the gay COMMUNITY. All
of my gay male and female friends would find his viewpoint appalling and
his condoning of (Man Boy Love) SICK and DISGUSTING!!!!!!......This
individual would NEVER be accepted in the gay community in which I am a
part of.
.
.
.
I urge you Carol to continue to be an ADVOCATE for abused and exploited
teens. I for one am PROUD of what you are doing. Carol please feel free
to post this e-mail if you choose, and excuse me for taking up so much
of your time with my words, but I felt as though they must be spoken.
Sincerely
Babs
Carol
Saved e-mail message
From: HIPPOL...@webtv.net (WONDER WOMAN)
Date: Mon, Jun 10, 2002,
6:56pm To: XXXXX...@webtv.net
Subject: Sorry Hon
Babs hon I am sorry if I offended you on the phone last night I really
didn't mean to. I was simply saying that I do find twinks attractive
but that does not mean that waht Carol and Kevin say about me is true.
In Utica the age of consent law would allow me to have a younger
boyfriend and Carol and the others could do nothing about it. I have
never had a teen boyfriend hon but I do like youngr guys. I hope you can
see my point of view on this hon. Please don't hate me for this and
please don't tell anone else about it because they would only use it
against me to spread more lies and hate about me. I cherish your
friendship so much and it would hurt me bad if ths came between
us as friends. I do deserve to be loved don't I and if the person that
loves me is 16 or 17 is that so bad if we love and care for each other
and as long as age of consent laws says its legal.
Love you hon.
Tyler
Carol
E-mail message
From: XXX...@webtv.net (Babs)
Date: Tue, Jun 17, 2003, 2:14am
To:XXXX...@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Where U get all your RAMS? Kick
ass song choice on your email.
Delivered-To: XXXX...@webtv.net X-Originating-IP: [xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
From: digital_...@hotmail.com (DIGITAL
RAINBOW)
Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2002, 10:32pm (EDT-1)
To: XXXX...@webtv.net (Babs)
Subject: Where U get all your RAMS?
Kick ass song choice on your email. X-
OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb
2002 03:32:28.0925 (UTC) FILETIME=[B9C252D0:01C1B763]
I was laughing my ass off at that joke you sent me. Hope you are having
a killer weekend. I tried to call earlier but you wer not home I guess.
Do you think Miss Cleo should show up in menof again? Maybe I could show
up again as someone else and cause more trouble. They never know who the
f*ck I am, and when they catch on to me then I just create a new nic and
continue on destroying menof and the @holes in there. My main target
is Carol since that gay hating bitch has cause me so much pain. I am
going to pluck them off the web 1 by 1 Carol Kevin, Brad, Joey, Male
Male, Wolf, Randy, Wayne and all the others that tried to ruin me and
deserted me. They have stolen my friends and my newsgroups over the
years and I am still here but they soon will not be on the web. LOVE YAZ
Tyler
CLICK 2 VISIT
Carol
Saved e-mail message
From: HIPPOL...@webtv.net (WONDER WOMAN)
Date: Sun, Aug 4, 2002, 10:40am
To: xxxxx...@webtv.net (ŁŁŁĀ§)
Subject: PLEASE READ
KIND OF LONG! Re: Friends Are Like Roses
I love you my dear friend and hope you don't take the post I made on
your group personal. I am not leaving because of you or any of the
others that I love on the group. I love you deeply because you are there
for me. I also worry myself sick because I fear your health problems are
much worse than you are telling people. If you ever need me for anything
just email me or call me at my new number xxx-xxx-xxxx
The reason I am leaving for a while because of Paul and lollis1---Since
I have been posting there it seems like everyone has just stopped
emailing me or posting on D-R and to be honest it hurts me a lot.
Yesterday lollis1 emailed me several times making it clear I am not
wanted too many places online. He also replied to Dave's post with a TTT
and after being gone for weeks Paul put in his 2 cents in an attempt to
upset me. BTW your post to me and Dave was extreamly fair and well
worded.
I am also leaving because I still getting letters from abuse MSN TV is
telling me that a high number of people are reporting my post from a
club group---Your group is the ONLY club group I post on so I suspect
that Carol, Paul, Kevin, Randy, Brad, Joey, and God knows who else are
reporting my post in an attempt to get me kicked offline.
Something weird is going on because like I said before people are hardly
emailing me and the post on D-R are almost non existant plus the other
stuff I mentioned above.
I think they doing this crap to make me feel like you created your group
to replace D-R I know you did not do that BUT I am quite pissed they
they would try such BS.
Can you help me get to the bottom of this mess? I really need your help
hon on this please come back to D-R and help me to rebuild it again. You
were the only reason people came and stayed and without you D-R is dead.
I don't give a fck about the other posters in there just you. Russ and
Brianna come like once a week and Toby only comes in when he has nothing
else to do and Jason well I don't care for him anyhow I think he is a
fake that someone in menof has planted in the group to spy. None of
these people are my friends so please help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You are the only one I can trust.
Carol
E-mail message
From: xxx...@webtv.net (Babs) Date: Tue, Jun 17, 2003, 2:14am
To:xx...@webtv.net
Subject: Fwd: Where U get all your RAMS? Kick
ass song choice on your email.
Delivered-To: xxx...@webtv.net X-Originating-IP:
[xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx]
From: digital_...@hotmail.com (DIGITAL
RAINBOW) Date: Sat, Feb 16, 2002, 10:32pm (EDT-1)
To: xxx...@webtv.net (Babs)
Subject: Where U get all your RAMS?
Kick ass song choice on your email.
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Feb
2002 03:32:28.0925 (UTC) FILETIME=[B9C252D0:01C1B763]
I was laughing my ass off at that joke you sent me. Hope you are having
a killer weekend. I tried to call earlier but you wer not home I guess.
Do you think Miss Cleo should show up in menof again? Maybe I could show
up again as someone else and cause more trouble. They never know who the
f*ck I am, and when they catch on to me then I just create a new nic and
continue on destroying menof and the @zzholes in there. My main target
is Carol since that gay hating bitch has cause me so much pain. I am
going to pluck them off the web 1 by 1 Carol Kevin, Brad, Joey, Male
Male, Wolf, Randy, Wayne and all the others that tried to ruin me and
deserted me. They have stolen my friends and my newsgroups over the
years and I am still here but they soon will not be on the web. LOVE YAZ
Tyler
CLICK 2 VISIT
Paul L.
since someone stole Babs electronics etc...
Wonder who stole that?
Paul L.
me over and over. Tyler was banned..he is so insecure
Paul L.
A Hermaphrodite
if it is consenting?
I see hets to this all the time and nobdy says a thing about it anymore.
No one question Elvis for courting 14 year old Priscilla Presley,
instead we all hero worhip him as the "King".
Lets not forget Jerry Lee Lewis, Rev. Jimmy Swaggert's cousin, who
married his 14 year old cousin.
I have never attempted to date any of my cousins let alone marry one
male or female.
Then there are those religious figures, like the Prophet Muhammad, who
married 6 year old Aisha and busted her cherry at 9.
Why do we alway rant and bagger a homosexual who prefers the "young
stuff" and let heterosexual men get away with knocking up teenage girls
ad infinitum?
What Roman soldier knocked up Miriam (Mary) at 14 to have Yeshua
(Jesus), or was it indeed a god like the miracle of Isis Meri, Osirus
and Horus.
so what if a Gay man offeres a 17 year old male romance and the laws of
that state allow 17 year old to do that.
To hell with those prudish anti-homosexual tastes. It tis the false
value system of religion that stack the cards against Gays on literally
everything yet many of us still pay homage to the harmful fraudulent
belief systems.
Kevin Burke
Great thread, Carol. Thank you so much - you have made my weekend.
Wonder what the MM files look like? I'll have to get a microphone
attachment and post the three voice messages MM left me - after being
told NOT to call. He sounds soooo funny when he shreiks.
Trai' La Trash.
better.
Trai' La Trash.
LMAO! it is evident ignoring them really gets to them.
Poor "Cryler"
Paul L.
hell out of him. Next comes his childish temper tantrum...
It was unfortunate a good hearted man like Babs,was manipulated,by
Tyler.
Off to Babs Group,to bad Tyler can't post there...LMFAO!
Tyler is not welcome there...
WONDER WOMAN
IĀ date both older and youngerĀ and if people don't like it well too damn bad!
WONDER WOMAN
BTW you posted this crap 2 or 3 times before and the rerun is quite lame---No where in it does my lover even speak LOL
Carol wrote:
Should we have a sequel now? :-)E-mail message From: XXXX...@webtv.net
(ĪÆĪµĪÆĀ§) Date: Tue, Jun 17, 2003,5:59pm (EST+1) To: clu...@webtv.net (Carol) Subject: Re:(no subject) Yes Carol I am in fact cleaning out my mail storage and just coming upwith little odds and ends that I think maybe you can place in yourQ-Files. Yes it is unfortunate that Tyler does not care about his group or theposters in it, but this is Tyler Wyatt as you and I know. I rememberTyler telling me after 'T' went to visit him how 'T' gave him thecreeps and he felt uncomfortable having 'T' in his apartment and how hewas scared to go to sleep for fear that 'T' would sexually assault himin his sleep. I e-mailed 'T' and told him all of this but I guess hechose not to believe me. Tyler was forever telling me about how he did not trust this person orthat person in Digital Rainbow and how he was just gonna shut the groupdown and leave all of those people behind. I would never tell anyonethat X is X and that he is the one that alerted you to theposting of the pics in that group, so don't worry about that. Thingsthat you say to me stay strictly between you and I. Yes Tyler did rely on me a lot, and that was ok with me, as I was tryingto help him. I knew early on in our friendship that Tyler was not rightmentally in some way or another, but felt as though maybe I could helphim in some fashion. However I just could not believe the allegationsmade against him regarding his sexual preference towards teen boys.About 5 months prior to our friendship ending Tyler started makingcomments to me in a very subtle manner about his attraction to youngteen boys. I was immediately left with an uneasy feeling and manyquestions that only Tyler could answer for me. One evening on the phonewith him he began telling me about age of consent laws in Utica and howhe had met a guy that was 17 y/o and was considering a relationship withthis individual. I let him know of my disgust on this matter, and endedour conversation when I realized that he was in fact not hearing a wordI was saying. I immediately made the decision that I would continue tobe Tylers friend, but would no longer defend him in his battles on theweb. This person is a very sick individual and I only hope that he getsthe necessary help that he needs, but doubt that he ever will. In myopinion this is a man that belongs locked up either in jail or in amental facility of some type. Just my humble opinion. Have a good dayCarol. Babs E-mail message From: REA...@webtv.net (slave tizoc) Group: alt.discuss.menofwebtv Subject: <WENDEL> Date: Wed, Sep 18, 2002, 4:08am Organization: WebTV Subscriber Face me in E-mail, not the NG, ok? I'm sorry that I just jumped your butt, but you attacked first. Want to know the *truth*? Talk to me. I have *real-life* people who will tell you that Chris lied. I am going to tell you some truths. Please, read this entire post. (And I DO still care about Chris..., God knows why, but I do...) I NEVER hurt him physically. I NEVER put a gun to his head. He and I were together for 6 months, and he did the dishes 2 times. He never helped clean the house, well, one time, shortly. He was in the bedroom almost all day, ever day on the WebTV Plus *I* bought him. He NEVER-EVER shopped for groceries. The night I picked him up at the bus stop, our first real life meeting. He had me take him to Walmart and charge stuff on one of my credit cards to get him essentials, and junk he didn't need. He lied and used false pretences to get me to wire him the money to get to me in the first place. All kinda BS so I would take him in. He is physically self-abusive.(Ask Dirk) He never wanted to go anywhere, or do anything, well, besides going to the theater or out to eat(in which I paid for the out food more). He slept with my ex-boyfriend behind my back.. IN MY BED!(yes, so did I *after* he did. Sorta for revenge) Look, you don't even know me. You and I have never talked. You and I have never met in real life. How on Earth can you be so unfair and believe only one side? Get to know *me* before you judge me. Thank You, ~RealFox~ I thought that this 'prequal' might be apropros. E-mail message From: Pierce...@webtv.net(Prince Kendal) Date: Mon, Jan 1, 2001, 9:20pm (EDT-2) To: Calic...@webtv.net (Carol) Subject: Re: Free From Tyler Hi Carol. Nice to meet you .....I have heard ALLOT about you...tee hee......all bad (from Chris), so I am sure that you are a delightful and and above board individual. I am unsure who Joey is, I received mush NASTY responses from the mass mailing I sent in response to Tylers post. Like I care or know these people......my intent was to educate his next victims. Unfortunately, I deleted his account in front of him just before escorting him to my front door and the curb. I had made him dump his luggage and retrieved items such as jewelry, clothing, cd's, and personal mail. To my knowledge, He did not have access to a pc in this house......but towards the end of the month, he did go on LONG walks.....I was grateful to have him out of the house. I did watch him use other people to contact others for him. I do know that he now has pc access....at Real Foxes: REAL FOX aka/ Tizoc M. Corona XXXX DXXXX Street Lot #0 North Charleston, South Carolina 20000 Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX Other places and phone numbers that he called most frequently while I was on the road or at the salon are Lafayette La XXX-XXX-XXXX Fayettevl NC XXX-XXX-XXXX Russell ky XXX-XXX-XXXX Little Rock AR XXX-XXX-XXXX Rio Dell CA XXX-XXX-XXXX Dunn NC XXX-XXX-XXXX Grand Rapids MI XXX-XXX-XXXX Seattle WA XXX-XXX-XXXX He received allot of porn from mailings..I thing Reach Dave was one as well as belonging to some pretty "interesting "egroups.....He was always talking about protecting teens and preteens and made me kind of sick....the old Shakespearian line,"My dear, thou protests too much" came to mind..I am sorry , Carol, but the guy was disgusting and Creepy!!!! Mr. ChrisXXXXXX LXX WXXXX.....is his name in full. If there was ever a child molester.....it is he. To watch him looking at kids was frightening....he leered and honestly drooled! I have a couple of friends, definitely of age , but look quite young and one of them left Thanksgiving dinner....mysteriously.he later told me that Tyler kept staring at his crotch and making passes and trying to touch him....No is not in Tyler's comprehension.....I do also know that one evening I arrived home early from work and he was in the bathroom and had left the web on of a Mature Man penetrating a VERY young boy's anus.....ain't no way that kid was 18! I also know that my box was reported to abuse more than once while he was here....of course, he had no respect for any one else..... Come to think of it.wasn't Joey one of his conquests to save?????? He was always trying to get Dirk, and Real Fox to warn him about Male Male..who by the way,Tyler accused of tormenting and raping teens...... All I know is that chris is about the sickest person I have ever met... I do not know if any of this will be helpful or not. Best of luck to you and your endeavors...... Blessings for a New year to you! Ken
WONDER WOMAN
For more info on the kink RF is into do a search on google under groups for rea...@webtv.net
Sorry, butĀ I have no interest in Guys who sleep with animals---You will know what I mean if you actually google him LOL
BTW RF was never a lover a very poor excuse for a fuck buddy maybe but never would the term lover ever apply---This why I left his sorry ass.
Carol wrote:
Should we have a sequel now? :-)E-mail message From: XXXX...@webtv.net
(ĪÆĪµĪÆĀ§) Date: Tue, Jun 17, 2003,5:59pm (EST+1) To: clu...@webtv.net (Carol) Subject: Re:(no subject) Yes Carol I am in fact cleaning out my mail storage and just coming upwith little odds and ends that I think maybe you can place in yourQ-Files. Yes it is unfortunate that Tyler does not care about his group or theposters in it, but this is Tyler Wyatt as you and I know. I rememberTyler telling me after 'T' went to visit him how 'T' gave him thecreeps and he felt uncomfortable having 'T' in his apartment and how hewas scared to go to sleep for fear that 'T' would sexually assault himin his sleep. I e-mailed 'T' and told him all of this but I guess hechose not to believe me. Tyler was forever telling me about how he did not trust this person orthat person in Digital Rainbow and how he was just gonna shut the groupdown and leave all of those people behind. I would never tell anyonethat X is X and that he is the one that alerted you to theposting of the pics in that group, so don't worry about that. Thingsthat you say to me stay strictly between you and I. Yes Tyler did rely on me a lot, and that was ok with me, as I was tryingto help him. I knew early on in our friendship that Tyler was not rightmentally in some way or another, but felt as though maybe I could helphim in some fashion. However I just could not believe the allegationsmade against him regarding his sexual preference towards teen boys.About 5 months prior to our friendship ending Tyler started makingcomments to me in a very subtle manner about his attraction to youngteen boys. I was immediately left with an uneasy feeling and manyquestions that only Tyler could answer for me. One evening on the phonewith him he began telling me about age of consent laws in Utica and howhe had met a guy that was 17 y/o and was considering a relationship withthis individual. I let him know of my disgust on this matter, and endedour conversation when I realized that he was in fact not hearing a wordI was saying. I immediately made the decision that I would continue tobe Tylers friend, but would no longer defend him in his battles on theweb. This person is a very sick individual and I only hope that he getsthe necessary help that he needs, but doubt that he ever will. In myopinion this is a man that belongs locked up either in jail or in amental facility of some type. Just my humble opinion. Have a good dayCarol. Babs E-mail message From: REA...@webtv.net (slave tizoc) Group: alt.discuss.menofwebtv Subject: <WENDEL> Date: Wed, Sep 18, 2002, 4:08am Organization: WebTV Subscriber Face me in E-mail, not the NG, ok? I'm sorry that I just jumped your butt, but you attacked first. Want to know the *truth*? Talk to me. I have *real-life* people who will tell you that Chris lied. I am going to tell you some truths. Please, read this entire post. (And I DO still care about Chris..., God knows why, but I do...) I NEVER hurt him physically. I NEVER put a gun to his head. He and I were together for 6 months, and he did the dishes 2 times. He never helped clean the house, well, one time, shortly. He was in the bedroom almost all day, ever day on the WebTV Plus *I* bought him. He NEVER-EVER shopped for groceries. The night I picked him up at the bus stop, our first real life meeting. He had me take him to Walmart and charge stuff on one of my credit cards to get him essentials, and junk he didn't need. He lied and used false pretences to get me to wire him the money to get to me in the first place. All kinda BS so I would take him in. He is physically self-abusive.(Ask Dirk) He never wanted to go anywhere, or do anything, well, besides going to the theater or out to eat(in which I paid for the out food more). He slept with my ex-boyfriend behind my back.. IN MY BED!(yes, so did I *after* he did. Sorta for revenge) Look, you don't even know me. You and I have never talked. You and I have never met in real life. How on Earth can you be so unfair and believe only one side? Get to know *me* before you judge me. Thank You, ~RealFox~ I thought that this 'prequal' might be apropros. E-mail message From: Pierce...@webtv.net(Prince Kendal) Date: Mon, Jan 1, 2001, 9:20pm (EDT-2) To: Calic...@webtv.net (Carol) Subject: Re: Free From Tyler Hi Carol. Nice to meet you .....I have heard ALLOT about you...tee hee......all bad (from Chris), so I am sure that you are a delightful and and above board individual. I am unsure who Joey is, I received mush NASTY responses from the mass mailing I sent in response to Tylers post. Like I care or know these people......my intent was to educate his next victims. Unfortunately, I deleted his account in front of him just before escorting him to my front door and the curb. I had made him dump his luggage and retrieved items such as jewelry, clothing, cd's, and personal mail. To my knowledge, He did not have access to a pc in this house......but towards the end of the month, he did go on LONG walks.....I was grateful to have him out of the house. I did watch him use other people to contact others for him. I do know that he now has pc access....at Real Foxes: REAL FOX aka/ Tizoc M. Corona XXXX DXXXX Street Lot #0 North Charleston, South Carolina 20000 Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX Other places and phone numbers that he called most frequently while I was on the road or at the salon are Lafayette La XXX-XXX-XXXX Fayettevl NC XXX-XXX-XXXX Russell ky XXX-XXX-XXXX Little Rock AR XXX-XXX-XXXX Rio Dell CA XXX-XXX-XXXX Dunn NC XXX-XXX-XXXX Grand Rapids MI XXX-XXX-XXXX Seattle WA XXX-XXX-XXXX He received allot of porn from mailings..I thing Reach Dave was one as well as belonging to some pretty "interesting "egroups.....He was always talking about protecting teens and preteens and made me kind of sick....the old Shakespearian line,"My dear, thou protests too much" came to mind..I am sorry , Carol, but the guy was disgusting and Creepy!!!! Mr. ChrisXXXXXX LXX WXXXX.....is his name in full. If there was ever a child molester.....it is he. To watch him looking at kids was frightening....he leered and honestly drooled! I have a couple of friends, definitely of age , but look quite young and one of them left Thanksgiving dinner....mysteriously.he later told me that Tyler kept staring at his crotch and making passes and trying to touch him....No is not in Tyler's comprehension.....I do also know that one evening I arrived home early from work and he was in the bathroom and had left the web on of a Mature Man penetrating a VERY young boy's anus.....ain't no way that kid was 18! I also know that my box was reported to abuse more than once while he was here....of course, he had no respect for any one else..... Come to think of it.wasn't Joey one of his conquests to save?????? He was always trying to get Dirk, and Real Fox to warn him about Male Male..who by the way,Tyler accused of tormenting and raping teens...... All I know is that chris is about the sickest person I have ever met... I do not know if any of this will be helpful or not. Best of luck to you and your endeavors...... Blessings for a New year to you! Ken
Kevin Burke
or str8 are insecure about themselves, so they seek an immature,
inexperienced individual that they can control and manipulate. Of
course, no one has EVER accused Ty-Liar of being a lying, manipulative,
user. Oh, wait. Nevermind.
Many things in the world are "legal", but that doesn't make them
"right."
Kevin Burke
magnificent lover realfox was. He quoted him as often praising Ty-Liar
for having a really fat butt - "the thicker the cushion, the better the
pushin," was how how he phrased it.
Quiz -
Is he lying now or was he lying then?
Is he lying now AND then?
So hard to tell. ROTFLMAO.
WONDER WOMAN
Also I would hardly call myself unusually fat---I am well under 200lbs your obsession with my body size is silly and has gotten quite old.Ā
WONDER WOMAN
Go figure huh?
Kevin Burke
Actually I did respond to Hermie's question. You merely were too
worried about the "fat" issue to see it.
You have never considered yourself fat, but those who have seen you say
otherwise. It is, no mater what, the issue you respond to everytime.
"Me thinks," said Prince Hamlet, "the lady doth protests too much."
Paul L.
Tyler doesn't have the mental capacity to Love an adult male,it's quite
obvious.
A Hermaphrodite
feel insecure about themselves or is it just sexual attraction and
society winks at it?
Even Hugh Hefner don't have no 60 somethings sagging tits and flabbing
azz old broads running around in bathing suits at his mansion to prove
he is secure about himself.
he's got those nice young 20 somethings spreading their legs for him,
big firm bossoms and toned young smooth curvy just over 18 year old
thighs, and shapey jiggling bubble booty, cause thats what dirty old
str8 men like...
I'm not saying Gays can't grow old together in love like some str8
couples. It is just that if a str8 man does it society winks and if a
Gay man does it it's crime and cyber cops do overtime trying to bust
faggots who barely cross the line.
Often adult to adlut homosexuallity is criminalized and equated with
pedophilia while heterosexual pedophilia is an institution.
it would seem to me the religious and cybercops would have better things
to do now that other religious are flying airplanes into high rise
buildings, blowing up shopping centers and headchopping...........
WONDER WOMAN
Trai' La Trash.
> Listen dumb fuck I am 31 years old 31 is hardly old---be as pissed
> off as you want, and throw your little rants I will and can date
> anyone I want of legal age---NOT A DAMN THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!Ā
>
> Also I would hardly call myself unusually fat---I am well under
> 200lbs your obsession with my body size is silly and has gotten quite
> old.Ā
WONDER WOMAN
Carol
I believe that calling you after you have requested him not to, is
considered to be harassment legally. Gee, who's legally harassing who here?
Carol
Carol
"Cryler" ROFL ! I like that one, will have to remember it, it _does_ fit.
*Cryler* LOL ! Yeah, poor Cryler indeed! :-D
Carol
WONDER WOMAN
You are NOT gay and you have stated that your religion and personal beliefs dictate that homosexual behavior is a sin so as a Gay man I am point blank asking what your fucking agenda is.
I think your agenda is to harass and cause trouble for as many openly Gay men as you can because you see those who don't endorse you, your religion, or your very narrow views as perverts.
Carol
"WONDER WOMAN" <HIPPOLY...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:G0tpc.259968$e17.1...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>PURE BS!
What is? What Babs, Real Fox, and Kendal wrote? Yeah, whenever the truth is
brought up about you, the usual reply is a non-reply. Keep hiding your head
in the sand, the rest all know the story.
>Even if I decided to date a 17 year old it is legal in the state of NY.
As it is in just about every state of the Union. But you can't expect that
everybody will like it. 'Babs' just spoke for himself, and those in his
community. You tried telling Babs the same thing, justifying your interest
in that 'it was legal'. What you didn't bargain on was Babs reacting
negatively to your revelation instead of stranding behind you. People do
lots of things, while legal, may be morally or ethically not right.
>I guess it will piss you to no end that my current BF is almost 20 and
>I am very happy with the person.
Why should that p*ss me off? I don't care, except I feel sorry for the guy;
wonder how long he will last?
>Now as for the other BS I have no desire to comment because they
>know the deal and they know I would welcome any and all advances
>from them.
Boy-oh-boy, if that isn't the biggest song-and-dance routine I have seen
from you in order to camouflage the evidence. The real deal is that you have
no comment because you know the truth behind every word they typed out on
their keyboards, and you have _absolutely_ _no_ _defense_ to what they
wrote.
>BTW you posted this crap 2 or 3 times before and the rerun is quite
>lame---No where in it does my lover even speak LOL
I took the title from Kevin's original post. It got buried, and I chose to
ressurect it from USENET. So, I simply replied to that thread wherein he
posted Real Fox's post, and I added the one from Kendal, and topped it with
the one from Babs. Kevin chose the title, in reference to your 'one-time'
lover, Real Fox. Reposting of this stuff just reinforces the message being
disseminated about you by those in the know. BTW, you need new lingo, the
use of 'lame' has gotten quite lame. :-)
Carol
Carol
"the thicker the cushion, the better the pushin," ROFL !
What a gem that one is! Hahahahaha!
Carol
WONDER WOMAN
"Babs" can speak all he wants---I met a 17 yr old a few weeks beforew his 18th birthday and we are STILL good friends and yes we have slept together several times---BIG FUCKING DEAL!!!!!!!! He is a student at SU, almost 21 and I met him when I lived in Utica---I have nothing to hide, and you can try and twist this around all you want but the truth is you have your panties all in a twist because we are going forth in "homosexual behavior" and not obeying God's laws as you see them.
Carol
> What is it so bad for a middle age man to have a young 17 year old
> lover if it is consenting?
>
>
common sense dictate that someone old enough to be the teens' parent should
really not be involved with someone who could be the age of their own
children. Many middle-aged men (and some women too!), go through a mid-life
crises where you and beauty is fleeting fast, so they often seek a much
younger person. It is often done for selfish reasons, and not in the best
interest of the young person.
> I see hets to this all the time and nobdy says a thing about it
> anymore.
>
I don't see _anybody_, regardless of sexual orientation doing this all the
time. I do see older men going after younger women, and vice-versa. And I am
sure there are a few situations where older gay men pursue younger, same
with lesbians. But by no means is this the norm. And people do say
something, especially when it involves a teenager and a much older adult.
> No one question Elvis for courting 14 year old Priscilla Presley,
> instead we all hero worhip him as the "King".
>
I wasn't alive at that time, but I can't believe that 'no one' questioned
it. I think that the questioning was just not a public matter. I am sure
many privately disapproved of the relationship. But that's the good ol'
south for you. There it is much more accepted, but most people would not be
in favor of teens being involved with adults much older than they. I happen
to like the states that have implemented the "5 year rule". This allows
legal adults (those 18 and up) to be involved with a minor without penalty
if they are not more than five years apart in age.
> Lets not forget Jerry Lee Lewis, Rev. Jimmy Swaggert's cousin, who
> married his 14 year old cousin.
More of the mixed up morality of the "good ol' south". Let us not forget
shotgun weddings. You got the girl pregnant, and you were forced to marry
her with a shotgun aimed at you until you said "I do".
> I have never attempted to date any of my cousins let alone marry one
> male or female.
>
Is it because you simply had no interest, or because of some inner moral
conviction/personal code of ethics?
> Then there are those religious figures, like the Prophet Muhammad, who
> married 6 year old Aisha and busted her cherry at 9.
>
Can't comment on that, as I don't know the story. It doesn't relate to the
here-and-now anyway.
> Why do we alway rant and bagger a homosexual who prefers the "young
> stuff" and let heterosexual men get away with knocking up teenage
> girls ad infinitum?
>
While I agree that there are some (usually religious fanatics from the
south) that rant about gays and teens while being silent on those within
there own community who are adults involved with teens, I don't think that
anybody is letting heterosexual men get away ad infinitum. I've seen plenty
of cases in the news and have seen many people frown upon, sexual behavior
of an adult with a teen. The ones who make the issue about gays tend to be a
very small and vocal, but powerful money-supported minority of political and
religious ultra-conservatives. It isn't always right (adults being involved
with minors), no matter who is doing what to whom.
> What Roman soldier knocked up Miriam (Mary) at 14 to have Yeshua
> (Jesus), or was it indeed a god like the miracle of Isis Meri, Osirus
> and Horus.
>
Was it even a Roman Soldier? People lived shorter lives then, it was the
custom to marry shortly after puberty. Marriages among teens then were more
common. We did not have the extened adolescence that we have in today's
society. We also don't know precisely how old Mary even was. She may have
been as young as 14 at the time. People rarely lived beyond their 40's back
then. Life and society were very different. It doesn't matter who
impregnated Mary, for the sake of this discussion, as it was quite common at
that time for teenage girls to be pregnant and to marry, usually a husband
selected for them, often betrothed when still infants in some cultures.
Arranged marriages were quite common then, too.
> so what if a Gay man offeres a 17 year old male romance and the laws
> of that state allow 17 year old to do that.
>
Well, some states don't even allow a gay man to offer romance to another gay
man if sex is a result of that. Some still have outdated, taxpayer wasting,
sodomy laws on the books. Police have to spend time enforcing these laws
when they could be put to better use fighting _real_ crime. And there are
other states where the age-of-consent laws allow heterosexuals to consent as
16 or 17 yo's, but the same law does not apply to homosexuals.
Carol
Carol
Calm down there, sockboy15, Kevin was replying to the question that Hermie
wrote at the begining of his post; "What is it so bad for a middle age man
to have a young 17 year old lover if it is consenting?" The reference to age
was first made in Hermie's post. Kevin was replying in general. He only made
mention of you at the end. You need to *read* what you are replying to
before rushing off one of your angry rant replies. Geesh! ;o)
Carol
"WONDER WOMAN" <HIPPOLY...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Jgupc.260025$e17....@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
WONDER WOMAN
Perhaps one day she will grow up and realise that their is NOTHING wrong with being Gay, having a same sex marriage, or going forth in homosexual behavior.Ā
Oh, and she can try and put a spin on it all she wants but the quote below is a direct quote from her.Ā
"It would be preferable to use the word "homosexual" as opposed to "gay", since, as I said above, "gay" imply's that one is sexually active. The term "gay" is a label that the activists prefer. Another term that many Christian groups use is SSA, same-sex attracted; and PPH, practicing and promoting homosexuals, the true gays. The ones who have chosen chastity and celibacy over the active lifestyle, need prayers to continue remaining chaste. The ones who are active need prayers to stop the activity and repent." - Carol Lucier
WONDER WOMAN
If he had made an answer to Hermie's post he would of NEVER mentioned my name because Hermie's orginal postĀ HAD NOTHINGĀ to do with me.
Kevin seems to be such a mental midget he can not even reply to a post without trying to insult me, or bring up my name.
Perhaps the cop wannabe bitchboy should go on meds for OCD or something LOL
J M
What"s wrong Tyler - The Liar ?
WONDER WOMAN
So since you are such a sucky assed coward why are you hiding behind a fake name?????
WONDER WOMAN
Kevin Burke
should not. Wrong is wrong. It doesn't matter how many people do
something - a majority is not inherently moral.
My personal opinion is that teenagers - regardless of orientation -
should not be having intimate relations with individuals more than a few
years older than they are.
WONDER WOMAN
Kevin you are NOTHING but a troll who would get his ass kicked in real life.
slee...@webtv.net
And now abides faith,hope,love-these three;but the greatest of these is love. 1 Corinthians 13:13
Love,
Ronny
48/gcm/Texas
Slee...@webtv.net
(PFLAG)
Parents,Families and Friends
of Lesbians and Gays
----------------------------------------------
Gay Christian webpages:Click below.
Freedom In
Christ
He
Loves You No Matter What They Say.
Rainbow Baptists
Steps To Recovery From Bible Abuse
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan
Community Churches
(Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches/Canada)
Cathedral of Hope
MCC-Dallas,Texas
DignityUSA
Evangelicals Concerned
Courage UK
----------------------------------------------
Gay Jewish webpages.Click below.
Congregation Beth El Binah
---------------------------------------------
Pro Life
Alliance of Gays and
Lesbians
----------------------------------------------
the hunger site.com
----------------------------------------------
(Google Search)
NE Texas Doppler Radar
----------------------------------------------
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are
of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 1 John
4:1
----------------------------------
For all have sinned.
Romans 3:21,25 (NIV)
21
But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known,
to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from
God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no
difference,
23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are
justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ
Jesus.
25
God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his
blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his
forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--
---------------------------------------------
And Jesus Christ said:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,that
whosoever believeth in Him should not perish,but have everlasting life.
For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world,but that
the world through Him might be saved." John 3:16,17
"Come unto Me all ye that labor and are heavy laden,and I will give you
rest. Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me,for I am meek and lowly in
heart and ye shall find rest unto your souls." Matthew 11:28,29
My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow Me. And I give
them eternal life and they shall never perish;neither shall anyone
snatch them out of My hand. My Father,who has given them to Me,is
greater than all;and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's
hand. I and My Father are one."
John 10:27,30
"These things I have spoken to you,that in Me you may have peace. In the
world you will have tribulation;but be of good cheer,I have overcome the
world." John16:33
---------------------------------------------
Paul said:
Owe no one anything except to love one another,for he who loves another
has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, "You shall not commit
adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not
bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other
commandment,are all summed up in this saying,namely, "You shall love
your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to a neighbor;therefore
love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8,10 NJKV
-------------------------------
Romans 12:18 (NKJV)
18. If it is possible, as much as depends on you,live peaceably with all
men.
----------------------------------------------
One thing I know,that,whereas I was blind, now I see. John 9:25 KJV
----------------------------------------------
And now abides faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these
is love. 1 Corinthians 13:13
----------------------------------------------
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein
on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to
look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from
being polluted by the world. James 1:26,27
----------------------------------------------
God,the law,love and your neighbor.
----------------------------------------------
Leviticus 19:18 (English-NKJV)
You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children
of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the
LORD.
----------------------------------------------
Matthew 22:34,40 (NKJV)
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they
gathered together. 35Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question,
testing Him, and saying, 36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in
the law?"
37Jesus said to him, ""You shall love the LORD your God with all your
heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38This is the first
and great commandment. 39And the second is like it: "You shall love your
neighbor as yourself.' 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and
the Prophets."
-----------------------------------------
Mark 12:28,31 (English-NKJV)
28
Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together,
perceiving that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the
first commandment of all?" 29
Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: "Hear, O
Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. 30 And you shall love the
LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your
mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment. 31 And
the second, like it, is this: "You shall love your neighbor as
yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."
----------------------------------------------
Luke 10:29,37 (NKJV)
But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my
neighbor?" 30
In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho,
when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his
clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest
happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he
passed by on the other side. 32
So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on
the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man
was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and
bandaged his wounds,
pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him
to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two silver
coins and gave them to the innkeeper. `Look after him,Ā“ he said, `and
when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may
have.Ā“ 36 "Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man
who fell into the hands of robbers?" 37
The expert in the law replied, "The one who had mercy on him." Jesus
told him, "Go and do likewise."
----------------------------------------------
Galatians 5:14 (English-NKJV)(Paul said) For all the law is fulfilled in
one word, even in this: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
----------------------------------------------
James 2:8 (English-NKJV)(James said:)
If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You
shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well;
----------------------------------------------
Romans 8:28 :(NKJV)
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love
God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.
----------------------------------------------
Matthew 5:43,48 :: King James Version
Jesus Christ said:
43
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and
hate thine enemy.
44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do
good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use
you, and persecute you;
45
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he
maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on
the just and on the unjust.
46
For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the
publicans the same?
47
And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not
even the publicans so?
48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
Matthew 6:5,8 (KJV)
5
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they
love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the
streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have
their reward.
6
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast
shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father
which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use
not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall
be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them:
for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
Luke 13:34,35 (KJV)
34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them
that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children
together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would
not!
35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you,
Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is
he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
------------------------------------
Paul said:
Romans 13:1,4 (NKJV)
1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is
no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are
appointed by God. 2Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the
ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on
themselves. 3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do
you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will
have praise from the same. 4For he is God's minister to you for good.
But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain;
for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who
practices evil.
-----------------------------------------
Acts 20:20,21 (KJ21)
20
and how I kept back nothing that was profitable for you, but have shown
you and have taught you publicly and from house to house, 21 testifying
both to the Jews and also to the Greeks repentance toward God and faith
toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 2:8,10 (KJ21)
8
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it
is the gift of God--
9
not by works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath beforehand
ordained, that we should walk in them.
----------------------------------------------
The sins of Sodom
Ezekiel 16:49,50 (KJV)
49
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of
bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters,
neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. 50 And they
were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them
away as I saw good.
--------------------------------------------
Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God; for
it is written, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord." Romans
12:19 (RSV)
----------------------------------------
Acts 17:10,11 (KJ21)
10
And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto
Berea, who arriving there, went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These
were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the
Word with allreadiness of mind and searched the Scriptures daily to see
whether those things were so.
----------------------------------------------
Repentance and Faith:
Acts 20:20,22 (KJ21)
20
and how I (Paul) kept back nothing that was profitable for you, but have
shown you and have taught you publicly and from house to house, 21
testifying both to the Jews and also to the Greeks repentance toward God
and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
----------------------------------------------
The just shall live by faith in Jesus Christ.
Galatians 3:10,14
(NKJV)
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for
it is written, "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things
which are written in the book of the law, to do them." 11But that no one
is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "the just
shall live by faith." 12Yet the law is not of faith, but "the man who
does them shall live by them."
13Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a
curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a
tree"), 14that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in
Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through
faith.
________________________
If My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray
and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from
heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land. 2 Chronicles
7:14
-------------------------------------
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the
Son of man be lifted up:That whosoever believeth in him should not
perish,but have eternal life. For God so loved the world,that he gave
his only begotten Son,that whosoever believeth in him should not
perish,but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the
world to condemn the world;but that the world through him might be
saved.Ā He that believeth on him is not condemned:but he that believeth
not is condemned already,because he hath not believed in the name of the
only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation,that light is
come into the world,and men loved darkness rather than light,because
their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light,
neither cometh to the light,lest his deeds should be reproved. But he
that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made
manifest,that they are wrought in God." John 3:14,21
----------------------------------------
"When He (Jesus) had called the multitude to Himself, He said to them,
"Hear and understand: Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but
what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man." Then His disciples
came and said to Him, "Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when
they heard this saying?" But He answered and said, "Every plant which My
heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. Let them alone. They
are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both
will fall into a ditch." Then Peter answered and said to Him, "Explain
this parable to us." So Jesus said, "Are you also still without
understanding? Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth
goes into the stomach and is eliminated? But those things which proceed
out of the mouth come from the heart and they defile a man. For out of
the heart proceed evil thoughts,murders,adulteries,fornications,
thefts,false witness,blasphemies. These are the things which defile a
man,but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man." Matthew
15,10,20
"For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs
from thorns,nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. A good man
out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good;and an evil man
out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the
abundance of the heart his mouth speaks."
Luke 6:44,45
-------------------------------------
Little Mouse
Bible Translations & Study Tools,Etc.
Kevin Burke
there was once a short, very fat, convicted male prostitute who tried
once, but when he lifted his short, ham hock of a foot off the ground
(which he had not seen in years because his belly was so big) he tipped
over and flailed around in the dirt blubbering "I've fallen and I can't
get up." Last I checked he was still in that position.
All I said was, I do not think teenagers - any teenager - should be in a
sexual relationship with a person who is more than a few years different
in age. I also feel that older men - any older men - who deliberately
pursue such relationships are immature mentally, and insecure sexually.
That is my opinion . If you disagree, that is clearly you right. We
all see you for what you are.
BTW - if this isn't "real life" to you - what is?
Carol
>Carol is that all you and the others are capable of making childish
>rhymes with my name??????
Are the only things you are capable of is calling people 'homophobic
b*tches' and 'hate-mongers' and throwing lots of crass profanitry around?
>God get a life and get laid---
My life is just fune, MYOB.
>Perhaps then you would not be such a busy bodied bitch who
>sticks her ugly assed nose in the business of others.
Purveyors of child porn, and those who associate with them,*are* my
business, and everyone elses. Sorry that you don't like that. Keep your
business private and legal and you have nothing to worry about.
>You are NOT gay
Yes, so you must continually point out. But I am intersexed, and have
same-sex feelings.
>and you have stated that your religion and personal beliefs dictate
>that homosexual behavior is a sin
Uh, no. Not all. And that has been explained ad nauseum. Neither I, nor my
religion, state point blank, that homosexual behavior is a sin. Some is,
some isn't. But the same is true for heterosexual behavior.
>so as a Gay man I am point blank asking what your f*cking agenda is.
Does you ISP allow the use of profanity? I know MSN and MSNTV do not. I
already answered you, I have no set agenda. Deal with it!
>I think your agenda is to harass and cause trouble for as many openly
>Gay men as you can
Whatever you think has no relevance to what is.
>because you see those who don't endorse you, your religion, or
>your very narrow views as perverts.
Oh you are *so* wrong! Do Kevin, Kelly, Dave, John, Brad, Jerry and Brian,
Craig and so many others endorse me, my religion, or my views on everything?
Have I ever called them, or anyone else, perverts? A pervert, to me, is a
child pornographer, a child molester, those who have an unhealthy sexual
interest in children, etc. A rapist or sexual attacker/molester is a
pervert. Some who abuses another for sex is a pervert. Someone who abuses
animals sexually is a pervert. Perversions are abnormal and unacceptable
sexual behaviors, deviant behaviors that people engage in just for the
thrill of it. Peeping toms, flashers, voyeurs; these are deviant behaviors.
Perversions are not what a consenting couple do in the privacy of their
homes/bedrooms. But you just go ahead and believe what you want.
Carol
Carol
> No one has yet to kick my ass - either here or "in real life." Now
> there was once a short, very fat, convicted male prostitute who tried
> once, but when he lifted his short, ham hock of a foot off the ground
> (which he had not seen in years because his belly was so big) he
> tipped over and flailed around in the dirt blubbering "I've fallen
> and I can't get up." Last I checked he was still in that position.
"I've fallen and I can't get up." That's what the lady in the medic-alert
commercial says. Should we pitch in and get him one? :-D
>
> All I said was, I do not think teenagers - any teenager - should be
> in a sexual relationship with a person who is more than a few years
> different in age. I also feel that older men - any older men - who
> deliberately pursue such relationships are immature mentally, and
> insecure sexually. That is my opinion . If you disagree, that is
> clearly you right.
And I agree, apparently so does Babs, and Paul as well. Tyler is so obsessed
on the legal stuff. States should institute the 5 year rule, some already
have. This allows young adults to be with a teen without being penalized.
We all see you for what you are.
That's what he doesn't like. Notice the increasingly vitriolic posts
complete with profanity?
>
>
> BTW - if this isn't "real life" to you - what is?
:-)
Carol
A Hermaphrodite
voyeur. This is about as heterosexual as I can get....
There is a shapely Irish born young woman cirde de early 20's who is
getting the living sh-t screwed out of her, SQUEALING like a stuck pig
and her boyfriend has the cuttest set of BUNZ on him--actually it is
HIS Bunz that make me watch when they leave the drapes slighly open.
I've seen him in the garage and he is just a doll and wears fitted jeans
_YUM---LOL
WONDER WOMAN
well gotta run I am missing QAF :-)
A Hermaphrodite
behavior sinful.
Even homosexual fantasy is sinful,according to them, when you consider
"Lusting in the heart" as the Bible says or "dwelling on impure
thoughts" as the Catholic Church interprets.
The Church also says one cannot be a true Catholic unless he/she
embraces all the Church's doctrinal teachings.
I'm sure that middle east god would bless all those armies on both sides
and send the boys to heaven for killing each other, but he would
definately send me to hell for beating off over a 70s pic of Arnold
Swartzeneger in a "butt shot". Such is the irrational nature of
religion.
WONDER WOMAN
I have zero respect for people who use their religion as an excuse to promote hate, or bigotry of any kind.
WONDER WOMAN
true
children (pre-puberty) who are hurt by pedophilia and richly by
religious inspired self haitng homophobia not a 17 year old.
I say: Carol and the others are ONLY concerned in creating drama, and targeting those they despise online.
It is very sad they make the choice to attempt to use the oldest lie in the book---That Gay men are pedophiles and perverts.
Not once have they EVER targeted a straight person, despite the fact almost all true pedophiles are straight, and they are now really straining credability when they target people who are in LEGAL relationships.
I guess the next target will be Gay men who make the choice to marry LOL
A Hermaphrodite wrote:
>Religious figure don't relate to the here and now?
>Where do you get all your moral codes and justification for being
>against same sex marriage?
>
>Personlly I no longer have any sexual preference for teens, but at 31, I
>certainly did, and so do many hetersexual men well over 30 with whom I
>worked, who knocked up teen girls all the time. Where all these
>heterosexual men immature and incapable of relations witha grown woman?
>Most were already married. LOL
>
>How does your present pope get away with telling his flock , they should
>be "one" with Muslims who follow their socially accepted female
>pedophile codes? 9 year old brides are not uncommon in Muslim
>countries.....
>
>Why all the main focus on teens? I would be worried more about true
>children (pre-puberty) who are hurt by pedophilia and richly by
>religious inspired self haitng homophobia not a 17 year old.
>
>Teenage is a grey area and a 17 year old just gives those, especially
>religious, who would like to see all same sex activity to stop, an easy
>shot at those who cross their artificial made line.
>
>How old was Mary when the Roman soldier screwed Mary, and they blamed it
>on and unseen middle east god. Most figure she was 14. Instead
>religionist would have you believe in the nonsense of a virgin birth,
>copying the legend of Isis (((Meri))), history's orignal immacualte
>mother..
>
>Groups like Courage , Repative therapy and Ex-Gays try to get teen Gay
>people to live miserable celibate lives or marry heterosexual, someone
>they cannot love. This is all done in the very false notion they are
>pleasing a heterosexual male invented middle east god.
>
>Instead they are taught to live with the suspecion that all older Gays
>who would all want to seduce them, control them and abuse them. Hell I
>can't think of no worse group that does that to Gay youth no more than
>heterosexist religion, inciting sucides, beatings murders, legal
>incarceration, blackmail and inspiring social rejection. Jesus and his
>followers are the ENEMY of Gay people. They are the true molesters.
>
>
>
Carol
have you read/studied? There are people of many faiths running about and
erroneously proclaiming that such-and-such is a religious teaching, when in
fact it is not. How you answer the question regarding sexual behavior, also
depends on how you define such behavior. Not everything involves genitals in
some way or another.
Carol
Trai' La Trash.
I never want to know what disgusting things you do in your life.
That's 5'6" at the hips from what I've seen <G>
WONDER WOMAN <HIPPOLY...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
> Dumb shit I am 5ft6 and what I do in my private life is none of your
> business.
>
> Trai' La Trash. wrote:
>
> WONDER WOMAN <HIPPOLY...@twcny.rr.com> wrote:
>> Listen dumb fuck I am 31 years old 31 is hardly old---be as pissed
>> off as you want, and throw your little rants I will and can date
>> anyone I want of legal age---NOT A DAMN THING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!
>>
>> Also I would hardly call myself unusually fat---I am well under
>> 200lbs your obsession with my body size is silly and has gotten quite
>> old.
>
> 200lbs at 5'1" is FAT
WONDER WOMAN
I am sure you are going to try and argue that many Gay men live with in the teachings of the church, and never go forth in such sinful behavior LOL
WONDER WOMAN
I look forward to a reply from you on this issue.
Carol wrote:
"WONDER WOMAN" <HIPPOLY...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
Gee I see you Carol are trying to put a "spin" on what he is saying---
To put a spin on it means, "To provide an interpretation of (a statement or event, for example), especially in a way meant to sway public opinion:" I don't think you even understand the expression, your use of it here is a misnomer. How am I putting a spin on what he said? I asked him to verify what he said and disagreed with his statements. That is not putting a spin on anything.
The truth is the Catholic church does consider homosexual behavior (gay sex) a sin.
Um, no. But my questions were not directed to you. You are even less of an expert than he is, as a former Catholic. Carol
WONDER WOMAN
being "Gay"
Geeee it seems to mirror the homophobic rant that Carol made about Gay
men being "practicing promoting homosexuals" and how we should "repent"
and live a "chaste" life
Everyone should read this because the parts about homosexual acts "Under
no circumstances should they be approved" and the part about Gay men
should persons are called to "chastity" is also a nice touch. The part
where the writer of this tries to link homosexuality with being a
pedophile is an interesting touch---I guess they missed the memo where
the child molesters are mostly straight
My all time favorite part of this is the direct quote from the text
where it says ."Homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. In
Catholic terminology, when they are done with free will and
deliberation, they are mortal and lethal sins which terminate one's
friendship and relationship with the Creator. They are intrinsically
disordered because they lack an essential and indispensable goal."
I am sitting here laughing at the very thought that people in 2004 are
so ignorant that they actually could believe homosexual acts are
"intrinsically disordered" or that they are "mortal and lethal sins"
No wonder Carol hates me so bad---I willingly go forth in behavior that
her religion has deemed a mortal and lethal sin. I also think it is her
motive for harassing Gay men online.
The official doctrine of the Catholic Church on the morality of
homosexual acts is set out with brevity and clarity in the Cate chism of
the Catholic Church:
Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who
experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons
of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms throughout the
centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains
largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents
homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always
declared that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered. They are
contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of
life. They do not proceed from a genuine af fective and sexual
complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
The number of men and women who have deep seated homosexual tendencies
is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered,
constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with
respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust
discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are
called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians,
to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may
encounter from their condition.
Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of
self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of
disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and
should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection (#2357-9).
In an earlier document, issued in 1986, the Holy See had also spoken
officially about the Catholic position in regard to homosexual acts.
This document, concerned with the pastoral care of homosexual persons,
was the successor of a previous and even more important document issued
in 1975, which was entitled "A Declaration on Certain Questions
Concerning Sexual Ethics." The 1975 document, which has validity for
Catholic moral theology, stressed the duty of trying to understand the
homosexual condition and noted that culpability for homosexual acts
should be judged with prudence. At the same time, there should be a
distinction drawn between a homosexual condition or tendency and
individual homosexual acts. These acts, of course, are deprived of their
essential and indispensable finality and are intrinsically disordered
and in no way can be approved.
Catholics, and many Christians with them, believe that the discussion of
homosexuality should be based on a theology of creation, particularly
that which is found in the first book of the Bible, Genesis, in which
God is seen in His infinite wisdom and love bringing into existence all
of reality as a reflection of His own goodness. He fashions the human
race, male and female, in His likeness. Therefore, human beings are
nothing less than the work of God Himself, and this includes the
complementarity of the sexes, which are called to reflect the inner
unity of the Creator. They do this in the most striking way in the
transmission of life by the mutual self-giving to each other in the
institution of marriage. We find further in Genesis that the truth about
human beings as God's image has been obscured and smeared by original
sin, with a concomitant loss of awareness of the covenantal character of
the union of man with God. As Pope John Paul II says, the human body
thus retains its "spousal significance," but now this is clouded by sin.
Further, in Genesis 19, the deterioration due to sin is brought to a
certain climax in the story of the men of Sodom. Although there may be
other components to the sin of the Sodomites, it is quite clear that
their sin consisted in their homosexual relations, not simply the abuse
of hospitality. This is further corroborated by the legislation set down
in Leviticus 18:20, which describes the conditions necessary for
belonging to the Chosen People, and excludes from God's family those who
behave in a homosexual way. In the New Testament this perspective is
developed by St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 6, where he proposes that those
who behave in a homosexual fashion will not enter the kingdom of God. He
also, in Romans 1, uses homosexual behavior as an example of the
blindness which has overtaken all of the human race. And, finally, in 1
Timothy 1:10, St. Paul explicitly names as sinners those who engage in
homosexual acts.
In 1997 a series of monographs was published by the Vatican's
semi-official newspaper, L'Osservatore Romano, under the general title
"Christian Anthropology and Homosexuality." These 14 studies by various
authorities in psychology, psychiatry, family life, and moral theology
are a treasure for those who seek to understand and deal with problems
involving this phenomenon of homosexuality.
The moral tradition of the Catholic Church on this issue is based on the
light of Divine Revelation and also on the light of natural reason.
Under the glow of these two lights, the Church has always stressed
univocally that the use of the sexual function has its true meaning and
moral rectitude only within a legitimate marriage. Through the symbolism
of the sexual difference which marks their bodily nature, man and woman
are called to achieve two closely connected values: first, the gift of
self and the acceptance of the other in an indissoluble union of one
flesh, and second, an openness to the transmission of life. Only in the
context of legitimate marriage are these values proper to sexuality
adequately respected and achieved.
As Livio Melina, a professor of moral theology at the Pontifical Lateran
University in Rome, says very well:
In the homosexual act, true reciprocity, which makes the gift of self
and the acceptance of the other possible, cannot take place. By lacking
complementarity, each one of the partners remains locked in himself and
experiences contact with the other's body, merely as an opportunity for
selfish enjoyment. At the same time, homosexual activity also involves
the illusion of a false intimacy that is obsessively sought and
constantly lacking. The other is not really other. He is like the self;
in reality, he is only the mirror of the self which confirms it in its
own solitude exactly when the encounter is sought. This pathological
narcissism has been identified in the homosexual personality by the
studies of many psychologists. Hence, great instability and promiscuity
prevail in the most widespread model of homosexual life, which is why
the view advanced by some, of encourag ing stable and institutionalized
unions, seems completely unrealistic.
Melina goes on to note that it is obvious that the homosexual act lacks
openness to the procreative meaning of human sexuality. In the sexual
relationship of husband and wife, their bodily act of mutual self-giving
and acceptance is ordered to a further good, which transcends both of
them: the good of that new life which can be born from their union, and
to which they are called to dedicate themselves. It is the logic of love
itself which requires this further dimension and transcendence, without
which the sexual act risks turning in on itself by concentrating on the
search for pleasure alone, and literally sterilizing itself. Through its
openness to procreation, the intimate act of the spouses becomes part of
time and history and is woven into the fabric of society. The homosexual
act, on the contrary, has no roots in the past and does not extend to
any future. It is not grafted into the community or the succession of
generations. It remains locked in an unreal moment outside time and
social responsibility. To speak of the spiritual fruitfulness of
homosexuality is unduly to ascribe the positive aspect which is always
involved in true friendship and of which homosexual persons are also
capable, to homosexual practices which are psychologically marked by a
frustrating sterility. In fact, psychologists with broad clinical
experience state that often when an authentic personal friendship forms
between male homosexuals, it frequently happens that they are then
unable to continue having these homosexual relations. Because the
unitive and procreative aspects of sexual activity which give a
legitimacy to its practice can only be found in marriage, a loving and
life-giving union of man and woman, the Catholic Church has always
taught, and continues to teach, that a person engaging in homosexual
behavior acts immorally. As the Congregation for the Doctrine of the
Faith puts it:
To choose someone of the same sex for one's sexual activity, is to annul
the rich symbolism and meaning, not to mention the goals, of the
Creator's sexual design. Homosexual activity is not a complementary
union able to transmit life. So it thwarts the call to a life of that
form of self-giving which the Gospel says is the essence of Christian
living. This does not mean that homosexual persons are not often
generous in giving of themselves, but when they engage in homosexual
activity they confirm within themselves a disordered sexual inclination
which is essentially self-indulgent. As in every moral disorder,
homosexual activity prevents one's own fulfillment and happiness by
acting contrary to the creative wisdom of God. The Church in rejecting
erroneous opinions regarding homosexuality, does not limit, but rather
defends personal freedom and dignity, realistically and authentically
understood.
The Catholic Church teaches that morality is a morality of human acts.
To be fully human, an act first has to be done volitionally, that is,
out of free will and without external coercion. Second, it must be done
with due deliberation, that is, an understanding of what is happening
and what is being done. The morality of an act is determined in the
objective order by its conformity to law, the natural law, which God
writes on the heart of every human being, as well as divinely revealed
law. Law can also require obedience when it is enacted by lawful
authority in the Church and, sometimes, even in the state. The supreme
subjective norm of morality is conscience, which is reason judging the
rightness and wrongness of an individual act. For conscience, however,
to be followed, as it must be, it is necessary for conscience to be
properly formed. As Pope John Paul II puts it in his encyclical The
Splendor of Truth, "Acting is morally good when the choices of freedom
are in conformity with man's true good, corresponding to the wise design
of God, indicated by His commandments which are a path leading to life."
The Second Vatican Council, speaking of the norms of conjugal morality,
justified their value precisely as being directed to keeping the
exercise of sexual acts within the context of true love by safeguarding
the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation. The
fundamental moral requirement is simply this: to do good and to avoid
evil. It is our duty as human beings, then, using reason and divine
revelation, to discover what doing good is and what evil is.
The Church has through almost 2,000 years of her history consistently
made a distinction between the sin and the sinner. There must always be
inflexible and flint-hard hatred of sin, while at the same time there
must be compassion, understanding, and concern for the one who commits
the sin, that is to say, the sinner. This theoretically is quite
possible, but in practice it frequently is quite difficult to
distinguish the sin from the sinner, since, as has been pointed out many
times, we in a certain sense become what we do. In other words, if we
lie, we become liars. If we fornicate, we become fornicators. If we do
homosexual acts, we become homosexuals. Nonetheless, the door to mercy
and forgiveness must never be closed. It should be pointed out, however,
that in Christian theology, the conditions for mercy and forgiveness are
repentance and recognition of sinfulness. It is not possible for God,
even in His infinite mercy, to pardon one who refuses to accept His
pardon or even refuses to recognize a need for such pardon.
This, of course, leads to another important aspect of the moral
evaluation of homosexuality from the ecclesiastical point of view, which
is to say, the distinction between the homosexual condition or
inclination and actual homosexual acts. Homosexual acts are
intrinsically disordered. In Catholic terminology, when they are done
with free will and deliberation, they are mortal and lethal sins which
terminate one's friendship and relationship with the Creator. They are
intrinsically disordered because they lack an essential and
indispensable goal.
The Catholic Church has not made any official pronouncement about the
problem of homosexual orientation, that is to say, whether it can be or
is acquired, or whether it is congenital and may have some basis in
psychosomatic or even physical factors. If this orientation is not the
result of morally negative choice, then, obviously, it cannot be called
a sin. Nevertheless, even in that instance, that is, even when it is
present without being desired, or willed, or deliberated upon, and
therefore is not a sin, it is intrinsically disordered. It must be seen
as a more or less strong inclination to intrinsically evil behavior from
the moral viewpoint, and therefore, cannot be thought of as neutral or
good. In Catholic tradition, this corresponds to what the Council of
Trent calls the meaning of concupiscence, which is not sin in the true
and proper sense but is an effect of original sin, and can be called sin
insofar as it comes from sin and inclines toward sin. There are many
aspects of the human condition that are represented by such
concupiscence, things such as excessive desire for power, selfishness,
greed, and those kinds of perversions which we call kleptomania, sadism,
and pyromania. Such disordered inclinations are not in themselves sins
but are objectively disordered and lead to objective evil. And insofar
as the acts that proceed from such inclinations are under the dominance
of free will and have received due deliberation, they are sinful and
culpable on the part of those who commit them.
Compassion for, and pastoral concern and care for, those people who have
these kinds of orientations should never be confused with the approval
of any acts that may derive from these inclinations. At the same time,
Christian charity, which is not an option but an obligation for those
who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, requires that there be
constantly exercised compassion, mercy, concern, and care for all
people, even those who are inclined toward evil actions, and this is
particularly the case if these inclinations have not been caused by
their own incorrect use of free will.
A word should also be spoken about the word "discrimination." There are
two kinds of discrimination, unjust discrimination and just
discrimination. Unfortunately, the discussion about this issue in our
present American society leads to a great deal of confusion and
ambiguity, which sometimes result in apparent contradictions in Catholic
approaches to anti-discriminatory legislation in various state
legislatures and various municipalities. Certainly there is such a thing
as unjust discrimination. And to deprive someone unjustly of work or
housing or other arrangements simply on the basis of past actions, or on
the basis of announced inclination, could and would be unjust. At the
same time there are certain measures of just discrimination which are
not only morally neutral but are sometimes morally necessary. For
instance, it would be a case of just discrimination to prevent a
pyromaniac from having a job as a custodian in a gasoline storage
facility. It would certainly be just discrimination to disallow
employment as a bank teller to a person given to kleptomania. There are
certain kinds of activities which, I believe one can say, should not be
engaged in by homosexuals, particularly if the homosexuality has certain
other phenomena associated with it, such as pedophilia. It would be
morally reprehensible to hire a pedophile to take care of a children's
daycare center. Because of the simplistic use of particular political
slogans in our time, this kind of just discrimination is frequently
lumped together under a general title of discrimina tion and declared
unacceptable in modern American culture, which exalts tolerance at any
cost as the supreme virtue.
Moreover, Christians have not only a right but a duty to avoid placing
people in occasions of sin. Housing discrimination, for example, with
regard to homosexual couples is, in my view, a very just and rightful
form of discrimination which Christians not only can, but should,
exercise. They should refuse, for instance, to rent apartments or rooms
to persons (heterosexual or homosexual) who are obviously in an
intrinsically disordered arrangement in regard to their sexual lives.
It is also a right and perhaps a duty of Christians to see that the
civil laws of the country in which they live recognize that the
promotion and defense of families, founded on monogamous heterosexual
marriage, is an essential part of the common good. The state should not
be allowed, with their acquiescence, to deprive itself of the healthy
social fabric that marriage alone can make possible and which is
necessary for harmonious society and the continuation of human
civilization. In my view, as well, a Christian, and certainly a
Catholic, has a right and a duty to oppose "gay culture," which does not
simply mean a tragically homosexually-oriented person but rather
signifies a collection of persons who publicly adopt a homosexual
lifestyle and are committed to having such a lifestyle accepted by
society as fully legitimate in civil law. Melina states quite correctly
that "justifiable opposition to offenses and discrimination which
violate a person's rights cannot be confused with this demand [of "gay
culture"]. In fact a systematic plan for the public justification and
glorification of homosexuality is taking place, starting with the
attempt to make it fully accepted in the minds of society. It aims
through increasing pressure at a change in legislation so that
homosexual unions may enjoy the same rights as marriage including that
of adoption."
Jesus promised, "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you
free" (Jn. 8:32). We are also told in Sacred Scripture that we are to
"speak the truth in love" (Eph. 4:15). So God, who is at once truth and
love, calls us to minister in the Church to all people, including those
people with homosexual inclinations or homosexual acts in their past. It
does not serve the cause of either truth or love, however, if they do
not infuse one another. Truth is not truth unless it is accompanied by
love, just as love is not genuine love unless it is accompanied by truth.
Obviously, there is much more that could be said about this issue,
particularly in refutation of various and serious misinterpretations of
Sacred Scripture, such as the relationship of David and Jonathan, or
even more blasphemously, those who would misunderstand or misinterpret
the relationship of Jesus Christ and the "disciple whom He loved," which
from the Greek text tells us very clearly is a disinterested, pure, and
dispassionate love and has absolutely nothing to do with any homosexual
relationship or inclination. The Fathers of the Church have always
considered with undeviating consistency homosexuality as an intolerable
sin for Christians. And although it was a cultural fact in ancient
times, just as it is in our own, the general norms of Christian ethics,
from the first days of the Catholic Church's existence to the present,
have been unvarying in their understanding that human sexual activity is
permissible only in the context of Christian marriage.
I would like to conclude this very brief presentation of the teaching of
the Catholic Church on homosexuality with a paraphrase from the poet
John Donne, who said quite eloquently: Human beings are never really
free unless they are chained by God's commandments, just as they are
never really pure until they are ravished by God's love.
[ Table of Contents
<http://www.newoxfordreview.org/2001/mar01/index.html> ]
A Hermaphrodite
doctrines cannot change or can they? You mean God can change his mind
and then notify the pope?
Masturbation was a mortal sin.
Dwelling on impure thoughts were mortal sins.
Romantic kissing, azz f-cking, and c-cksucking between two members of
the same sex were all mortal sins punishable by the fires of hell.
The last addition was then homosexual activity was "INTRINSICALLY" evil.
Now this means in order for me to gain heaven i must trun my head every
time isee those cowboys with nice shaped buttocks in tight jeans. No
more crotch watching either. No more drooling over male models and
fantazing about have them as lovers and doing me, where ever I want.
I am allowed not to enjoy my homo-sex thinking.
I am only allowed to marry heterosexual and only think about someone I
cannot love.
They may have re-worded it into long depostions, but it will most likely
mean the same damned thing...merely a representation of heterosexual
male personality and repugnance of homosexuality.
A Hermaphrodite
It is exactly what I mean---it is heterosexist.
Nature gives one androgyny but the middle east god won't allow the
androgynous to express it with genitalia or fantasy, without severe
penalty.
WONDER WOMAN
WONDER WOMAN
WONDER WOMAN
Trai' La Trash.
Trai' La Trash.
WONDER WOMAN
Trai' La Trash.
Carol
> It should not matter how long ago, since I was there .
It does, because the pre-Vatican II church is vastly different then the
post-Vatican II church.
>The church doctrines cannot change or can they? You mean God
>can change his mind and then notify the pope?
Core doctrine cannot change. But tradition is always open to, and subject
to, change. Example: Galileo. Science won out over tradition. It isn't a
matter of God changing his mind, it is a matter of coming to the realization
that tradition was wrong. And the Pope does not author dogma, theologians
do. After a period of careful study and prayer, a doctrine may be aded to
official teaching. In very rare cases, the doctrine may be declared
'ex-cathedra', from-th-chair, by the Pope. That becomes core doctrine, which
cannot be reversed. But tradition is always subject to change, and always
has been.
> Masturbation was a mortal sin.
>
> Dwelling on impure thoughts were mortal sins.
>
> Romantic kissing, azz f-cking, and c-cksucking between two members of
> the same sex were all mortal sins punishable by the fires of hell.
>
*IF* (and that is a big 'if'), all _three_ conditions are met that
constitute a mortal sin. So, yes, you are correct that objectively they are,
but subjectively they may not be at all. At the same time, there are far
more heterosexual sexual sins that are deadly, and many do meet those three
requirements. Prostitution is considered to be a mortal sin, objectively
speaking, and most likely subjectively as well (for the pimps and johns).
Yet Jesus said that prostitutes would get into heaven before the Pharisees.
One should practice charity because scripture says that charity covers a
multitude of sins (wrongdoings). It is far more important to practice
charity than to dwell on sexual issues. Scripture says more about lack of
charity than anything else. Ultimately what a gay person, or anyone else,
decides, is up to them. God gave all free will. No one is forced to accept
Him. And those who do are best at defining their relationship with Him. A
person who lives as they understand they should live, and is at peace, and
not at odds within themselves, cannot be faulted for how they live, as long
as they were truly honest with themselves.
> The last addition was then homosexual activity was "INTRINSICALLY"
> evil.
A really bad translation of the original Latin, which many are petitioning
to have changed. maybe someday it will be.
Carol
Carol
me as I had some errands to run, and things to do.
Carol
Carol
>I notice a certain person is very quite since I posted the stand of the
>church on this issue.
Well, *excuuuuuuuuuse* *me* ! You holler at me to 'get a life', and when I'm
out for the day livin' it, you holler because I'm not here. You can't have
it both ways. Believe me, I am anything but quiet. All this typing is
time-consuming, and I am very tired. I have more errands to run Tuesday, so
I will get to your porying _if_ and _when_ *I* want to. You claim to have
this grand life, why aren't youy out living it instead of whining in here
because I haven't gotten around to posting in here yet. If you don't like,
you know what you can do with it.
Carol
WONDER WOMAN
You are nothing but a bigoted bitch who hates openly Gay men and you target me because I call you on it.
Carol you lame little wimper saying you willĀ get to me if and when you want clearly shows what a coward you are.
Face it all you can do is try and attack me and change the subject off of yourself.
WONDER WOMAN
Tell us Carol do you or do you not support the church view that homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered" or that they are "mortal and lethal sins"
Trai' La Trash.
> TOO BAD THAT YOU ARE TIRED!!!!!!!! Care to defend your postion and
> the church's postion on homosexuality???? Care to defend WHY you have
> such bigoted and biased views on Gay marriage????
>
> You are nothing but a bigoted bitch who hates openly Gay men and you
> target me because I call you on it.
>
> Carol you lame little wimper saying you will get to me if and when
> you want clearly shows what a coward you are.
>
> Face it all you can do is try and attack me and change the subject
> off of yourself.
And that's not what you
do??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????
Carol
>TOO BAD THAT YOU ARE TIRED!!!!!!!!
Well, thank you for your empathy, *NOT* ! It's too bad that you are a class
A jerk! I seriously wonder what then mods in
soc.support.youth.gay-lesbian-bi would think of the behavior you display in
here. Wonder if a few emails should be sent their way. I do hope Kevin does,
he knows some of the mods.
>Care to defend your postion and the church's postion on homosexuality????
Actually, no. This is not a court of law and I am not under trial, therefore
I have no reason to defend anything. How's _that_ for an answer!
>Care to defend WHY you have such bigoted and biased views
>on Gay marriage????
Care to explain how neither supporting or opposing gay marriage legally,
supporting domestic partnerships, and being opposed to the attempt to modify
the constitution in order to define marriage is a bigoted and biased view?
Care to *TRUTHFULLY* answer this question and remember that I said I am
_only_ opposed to it as a religious institution, which, BTW, has no bearing
on your 'rights', since there are *no* benefits attached.
>You are nothing but a bigoted bitch who hates openly Gay men and
>you target me because I call you on it.
And you are nothing but a snivelling whining chronic liar who uses and
abuses even your friends, who then become your ex-friends.
>Carol you lame little wimper saying you will get to me if and when
>you want clearly shows what a coward you are.
Blahblahblahblah....so *YOU* say....
>Face it all you can do is try and attack me and change the subject
>off of yourself.
Is that not what *YOU* did, and are doing??? PKB. :-)
Carol
Carol
> I pulled this off of Google about where the Catholic church stands on
> being "Gay"
Nice try, but this is *NOT* a RCC document. It is actually an article taken
from a conservative Catholic publication called _New_ _Oxford_ _Review_.
Note the disclaimer on this page (
http://www.newoxfordreview.org/2001/mar01/index.html ) Opinions expressed in
The New Oxford Review are those of the authors and do not necessarily
represent those of the Board of Directors of New Oxford Review Inc. or the
persons listed on this masthead. This is merely the opinion of the author,
who is listed on the page of the article. The following was at the very top
of the page, which you cleverly snipped, showing that this is a magazine
article, excerpted from a book, and *not* a church document. "The Most Rev.
Fabian Bruskewitz is the Bishop of Lincoln, Nebraska. This article is
reprinted with permission from Same-Sex Matters, edited by Christopher
Wolfe, recently published by Spence Publishing Co."
> Geeee it seems to mirror the homophobic rant that Carol made about Gay
> men being "practicing promoting homosexuals" and how we should
> "repent" and live a "chaste" life
Geeeee...that may be because my post was not a rant but a paraphrase, just
as I stated. It would make sense since the magazine the article is from is
Ultra-Conservative (which _I_ am *not*, BTW), and therefore has much in
common with evangelical and even fundamentalist christians. You just proved
my point! :-D
> Everyone should read this because the parts about homosexual acts
> "Under no circumstances should they be approved" and the part about
> Gay men should persons are called to "chastity" is also a nice
> touch. The part where the writer of this tries to link homosexuality
> with being a pedophile is an interesting touch---I guess they missed
> the memo where the child molesters are mostly straight
And it all the conservative opinion _based_ on one persons interpretation of
church teaching. Not a document on dogma.
<snip>
>" The official doctrine of the Catholic Church on the morality of
> homosexual acts is set out with brevity and clarity in the Cate chism
> of the Catholic Church":
Note that sentence. It even directs you _to_ the source on which the author
bases his *opinions*. I also do not agree entirely with the author, which I
am quite free to do, since this is *opinion* based on doctrine, and not the
doctrine itself. As to the authors' opinions, no comment.
Your Google search was poorly done. If you would read and comprehend, you
would have figured out the source and gone back to Google for the source.
But this article fits so well with the characterization you try to paint me
with. So, you tried to pass it off as doctrine/dogma, when it is not. Nice
try, but you lose. You got caught again being less than honest. Again you
think you discovered the big cheese, and all you have is marshmallow fluff.
ROFL !
Carol
Carol
>No Carol the truth is you are too coward to answer immediately and
>have to think hard so you can put a spin on this that will make you
>seem less than homophobic.
Aren't you the impatient annoying brat! Did you tantrum like this as a
child? Did you do this with all your ex-friends? No wonder they dropped you
like a red hot spud.
>Tell us Carol do you or do you not support the church view that
>homosexual acts are "intrinsically disordered" or that they are
>"mortal and lethal sins"
Who is "us", are your multiples surfacing again? :-P Geuss what, Cryler?! I
don't have to _tell_ you *anything*. You can demand all you want; whine,
cry, swear, rant and rave and have a major temper tantrum complete with
panic attacks for all I care. Go *right* ahead. go ballistic all you want. I
am going to sit back and join Dave, Paul, Kevin, Craig, etc and *LAUGH* at
you! And then I am going to request some gays who have some prominance in
their communities, and therefore some influence, to write a nice letter, or
two, or three, to the mods over at ssyglb. What do you suppose thgey will
think??? LOL !
Carol
A Hermaphrodite
I've said, about being the invention of (changing) heterosexual males
rather than a true or unchanging God.
The pope and his heterosexual male bishops, the patriarchy, can
vascillate from charity to treachery and called it being led by the Holy
Spirit and the will of God. This smacks of schizophenia to me.
Being the heterosexist institution it is, it influence of law and
government have even lead to the EXECUTION of homosexual people, yet
they claim to be led by the Holy Spirit, which allegedly is a person of
all loving God.
Religion being the human invention it is, reflects the personality of
those who invented it. This repulsion of homosexual activity specifcally
is an obvious invention of straight men. While I acknowlege that there
are more violations for heterosexuals, that expression of voidness of
sexual activity for heterosexuals is absent. Even much of the Church's
advocation for straights is irrational.
A creator who creates androgyny then similtaneously admontions against
androgynous behaviour, smacks of schizophrenic thinking.
Blaming the "fall of man" on a talking snake-god(Satan), born of
Egyptian mythology(Sata) mellenia before in a different story is no
excuse for a lack of competance for an all powerful god.
One does not similtaneiously claim omnipotence then fail in it, and be
correct.
It is not about the "free will" of humans, it is the failure of
omnipotency in a heterosexual male invented god.
WONDER WOMAN
WONDER WOMAN
Carol
>Actually you dumb twit I googled 25 different sites about the
>church's teachings on homosexuality---All of them said basicly the same
>things. I guess all of those sites are lying and trying to misrepresent the
>church and their teachings on homosexual behavior LOL
You actually read _all_ 25 sites??? And you call *me* a dum twit. Do you
think anybody in their right mind is going to believe that you read *all*
*25* and compared the contents??? No, those sites aren't lying and
misrepresenting the church, more likely *you* are lying. But in the
interest of being fair, you could prove me wrong by supplying the URL's to
those *25* websites.
Carol
WONDER WOMAN
BTW I called you a dumb twit not a dum twit LOL
Oh and even if I was lyingĀ (I am not)Ā you just said thoseĀ sites are not lying and misrepresenting the church, then why should I repost them when they are simply going to mirror the same thing I posted before.
You my dear are trying to slither out of this by trying to change the subject whether or not I actually read those websites, instead of what the subject really is which is your very obvious homophobia, and how you harass Gay men who do not live inside of what you consider acceptable "homosexual behavior" and the church's stand on homosexuality.
Carol
>Just as your tired ass decided to not reply to me the other night---I
>am going to say I am tired, going to bed, and have errands to run
>in the morning LOL
TOO BAD THAT YOU ARE TIRED!!!!!!!! Care to defend your postion and the other
25 websites postion on homosexuality and the RCC???? Care to defend WHY you
*can't* post the website URL's????
You are nothing but a user and abuser who supports those who indulge in
*ILLEGAL* child porn and you target me because I call you on it.
Tyler, you lame little wimper saying you will get to me if and when you
want clearly shows what a coward you are.
Yes, I paraphrased your reply to me. What's good for the goose is good for
the gander. ;-)
>BTW I called you a dumb twit not a dum twit LOL
Yeah, and it's a typo. And don't whine about others calling you names like
Cryler, Ty-Liar and Whoreboy. Or what Kevin and Brad call you; Tubby and
Lard-Lass. You are no better than they, but only you whine about it.
>Oh and even if I was lying (I am not)
I bet you are. But the burden of proof is on you to prove that you found
*25* sites with the exact same content.
>you just said those sites are not lying and misrepresenting
>the church,
Not exactly. I said, "No, those sites aren't lying and
misrepresenting the church, more likely *you* are lying." I don't believe
that there are *25* websites that *YOU* found and read that have the same
content. Don't break the sentance and copy what you want of it, it needs to
be read as a whole. To shorten it, in a nutshell, " The 25 sites don't lie,
_you_ lie about there being 25 sites. Now hoe could I say that "No, those
sites aren't lying and
misrepresenting the church" *PERIOD* , when I haven't _seen_ these sites,
which is _why_ I asked you for the URL's.
>then why should I repost them when they are simply going to mirror
>the same thing I posted before.
Because I don't believe that you found 25 websites with similar content,
that's why! Let me ask you *ONCE* *AGAIN*. Do you think anybody in their
right mind is going to believe that you read *all* *25* and compared the
contents??? *DO* *YOU* ???
>You my dear are trying to slither out of this by trying to change the
>subject
You don't _GET_ to dictate what the subject is, bozo, it's USENET. And
there is nothing for me to 'slither' out of. The majority have clearly
indicated that they don't care about *your* subject, so get over yourself. I
know that the majority stands by me, not you. Therefore the burden is upon
*YOU* to prove your point. I don't need to say a single word in my defense.
And it obviously _kills_ you that you cannot sway the masses. I say, deal
with it.
>whether or not I actually read those websites,
You didn't read them. I call your bluff. Post them as proof or shut-up.
>instead of what the subject
Again, this is USENET, you do not get to determine what the subject is.
<snip>
Carol
***=W=***
Your little rant claiming I support people who indulge in child porn is one more example of how you feel that people who live the so called "homosexual lifestyle" as defined by the church are perverts and pedophiles.
The really funny thing is you started off claiming I was a pedophile, and when you could not prove that, you went to claiming I support those who indulge in it.Ā I guess next you are going to be saying their is something wrong with me having a boyfriend who is 20 years old---Perhaps, you are going to claim the relationship should not be legal, or that us going forth in sex is evil, or some other stupid bullshit. Perhaps, you are going to claim I brainwashed him LOL
I will say I DO NOT support true child pornography, just as I do not support homophobic assholes who decided to go on witch hunts looking for perverts. I also do not support people who use religion as an excuse not to support 100% equal rights under the law for GLBT persons or any other group of people.
Carol, you have a history of trying to change the subject off of yourself everytime this issue is brought up---You start posting altered emails and post---many of them from over 5 years ago, start calling names, doing God knows what behind people's back to try and stir up trouble, and you try to make it out that those who oppose your point of view are either liars, or perverts.
You have yet to post anything on me, or anyone else that could stand up in a real court of law, all you are out to do is cause trouble, and ruin reputations of people that you deem immoral.
So, throw your little hissy fits, call names, and stamp your cloven hooves all the fuck you want, it still will not change the fact that what I posted from Google was 100% accurate, and it still won't change the fact that the direct quote from you regarding homosexual behavior mirrored the same homophobic and biased ideology.
Oh and one more thing Carol,this is USENET, you do not get to determine what the subject is.
Carol
"***=W=***" <HIPPOLY...@twcny.rr.com> wrote in message
news:1dXqc.290167$e17.2...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>Yes I care defend why I WON'T post the website URL s---
>because I posted already on this issue and you were clearly busted
>on the issue of your direct quote and the position of the church on
>homosexual behavior.
If I was 'busted', then how come nobody believes that accept for *YOU* ?
Heck, even MM is silent. Where's Cappy? Where's 'ray'? _How_ was I busted,
Ty-Liar? You posted an article that was a commentary, one person's opinion
and interpretation, based on the Catholic Catechism. That article is not
officially the churches entire position. I showed that it was an article and
an opinion. The article also supports *MY* assertation that I was
paraphrazing. I hate to burst your bubble, but you clearly _did_ _not_ bust
me, or you would have the majority agreeing with you. The majority not only
does not *agree* with you, they refuse to comment to your 'dare' LOL ! Say
you busted me all you want, *it* *proves* *nothing*.
>Your little rant claiming I support people who indulge in child porn is
>one more example of how you feel that people who live the so called
>"homosexual lifestyle" as defined by the church are perverts and
pedophiles.
I don't 'claim' it, it's a *FACT*. Were you, or were you *NOT* conspiring
_with_ 'Chad Knight' (Michael Puff) against a teen in ADSGT??? Is not that
_same_ 'Chad Knight' now in jail for *child porn*, *child molestation*,
*sexual abuse of a minor*, among other things? And did you, or did you _not_
side with the 30+ yo adult who was violating state _and_ federal law by
publishing pictures of his -17 yo lover engaged in sex, on the internet? If
you refuse to ackowledge that what the 30+ yo did was wrong, even though the
law is _clear_ on that fact, then is that not supporting a person who
indulged in child porn? Your own actions paint you as such.
>The really funny thing is you started off claiming I was a pedophile,
The correct term is _Ephebophile_. And you are one by your own words, you
say you have older and younger partbers, and that you can legally have a 17
yo. Any adult more than 5 years older than a teen is classified as an
Ephebophile. Not all such people are breaking laws, it depends on each
individual state.
>and when you could not prove that,
There is quite a bit of strong evidence, not absolute proof, which is _why_
you haven't had anything happen to you. Not proven in a court of law, but in
a court of your peers. Many have read and seen the mounting evidence. Babs
defended you vehemently, so did Janet. The story they tell now is different.
They believe you are a messed-up individual that is capable of anything.
>you went to claiming I support those who indulge in it.
See above ^
>I guess next you are going to be saying their is something wrong
>with me having a boyfriend who is 20 years old---
Nope.
>Perhaps, you are going to claim the relationship should not be legal,
>or that us going forth in sex is evil, or some other stupid bullshit.
>Perhaps, you are going to claim I brainwashed him LOL
Nope.
>I will say I DO NOT support true child pornography,
Then why go after a teen and use the real child pornogropher to help you?
And why be so defensive about the 30+ yo and expressing little or no concern
that the teen may not have even known the stuff was being published, or a
host of other scenarios that could have played out? You say you do not
support it, yet your actions say otherwise. And so do some of your
ex-roomates who found evidence on their WebTV's and conputers.
<repetitive vitriolic nonsense snipped>
Carol, you have a history of trying to change the subject off of yourself
everytime this issue is brought up---
ROFL ! *Hahahahahahhahahahah*! May I remind you, *YOU* _do_ _not_ get to
decide what the subject is??? And thew subject originally was *YOU*, it is
*YOU* who changed it to me in order to take it off of *YOU* ! I have
answered every post you made to me with a rebuttal, *YOU* , on the other
hand, have responded to every one of mine with the usual _Tylerisms_ that
you are so famous for.
>You start posting altered emails and post---many of them from
>over 5 years ago,
To make a point, and it started only _after_ *YOU* came in here bashing
nearly everybody and lying about them, starting with Kevin, I believe.
>start calling names,
You have done more than your fair share of that ! And *YOU* have used vile
hate language, profanity, and lies. Point the finger at yourself while you
are busy pointing fingers.
>doing God knows what behind people's back to try and stir up
>trouble, and
>you try to make it out that those who oppose your point of view
>are either liars, or perverts.
Only with some. Hey, if the shoe fits...
>You have yet to post anything on me, or anyone else that could
>stand up in a real court of law,
But it stands up in the court of your peers, you now have to be more careful
and cautious. Big Brother is watching your back, so you can't take a chance
and screw up. I am happy with that, it doesn't matter _if_ you ever get to a
real court of law, but if ever you do, and someone needs some evidence, I've
got all kinds of goodies.
>all you are out to do is cause trouble, and ruin reputations of
>people that you deem immoral.
Typical cop-out phrase. I haven't done that to many, including gays. I don't
consider them all immoral. Just a few like Michael Puff, and that 30 + yo I
mentioned, and oh......you.
>So, throw your little hissy fits, call names, and stamp your cloven
>hooves all the f*ck you want, it still will not change the fact that what
>I posted from Google was 100% accurate,
It's not 100% accurate on the actual words of Catholic doctrine. I already
proved that it was not doctrine, but a summary opion based on doctrine. You
just can't deal with it. It is you having the hissy fit, not I.
>and it still won't change the fact that the direct quote from you
>regarding homosexual behavior mirrored the same homophobic
>and biased ideology.
Ideology as expressed in the article, which supports my assertation that I
was *paraphrasing*. The ideology in that article is similar to fundy and
evangelical ideology because it was a conservative publication that it was
published in.
Oh and one more thing Carol,this is USENET, you do not get to determine what
the subject is.
I'm not determining what the subject is, I respond if and when I want, and
how I want. The subject is whatever the participants make it, if someone
does not reply to _your_ subject, but starts another one, or changes it to
something else, that is their right. You cannot demand that the subject is
such-and-such and that everybody must reply to what *YOU* deem the subject
to be. You don't answer most of the posts and questions put to you. You
whine because they won't post on what you think the subject should be. You
rant because no one will defend what you demand they defend, and when
someone posts something about you, you complain that they are chaging the
subject! 8-O
Carol
Hump day has passed, the weekend comes soon, and so does Kevin Burke. :-)
***=W=***
almost 21 and we are still friends.
Seems that you think that Gay people have sex with every person that
they know.
Yes, I have had sex with this person, and quite honestly it is none of
your business who I sleep with.
As for me conspiring with a child pornographer that is just more of your
lies---I was once knew someone online who was busted (rightfully so) for
hooking up with a young minor, I never knew the person in real life, and
I had spoke with him in email---I belong to several mailing list BIG
DEAL!!!!!!!
I do not know what most people do in their private life, and to be quite
frank, most of the time I could care less. If they break the law that is
for the cops to deal with, not me.
I did re post PUBLIC deja news (now google) stuff from a person who
claimed to be a teen---I only posted it because I felt this person was
not a teen---Silly me I do not consider over 40 to be the teen years LOL
The person was dumb enough to post his last name and I did a search and
found where he was posting claiming to be both a teen and an adult in
the email address that was supposed to belong to a "teen".
The interesting thing is "both" of these people were from PA and had
the same name, and were on webtv.
Make all the claims you want about me, but it is not illegal to repost
anything from the newsgroups, or ask a person if they are lying about
their age.
I can even remember you flaming me for posting online safety links that
made it clear for teens to trust NO ONE because of how easy it is for
people on here to lie about their age.
Given that you claim to care so much about the online safety of minors,
do you care to explain why you had such a problem with that advice?????
Carol
> Nope!!!!!!!! What I said was I "met" a 17 year old, and that he is
> almost 21 and we are still friends.
And your point in mentioning this is????? What???? I was not talking,
anywhere, in this post about a 17 yo you met. Soooo, 'nope' what???
> Seems that you think that Gay people have sex with every person that
> they know.
Well I don't know about most gay people, but you sure run your mouth and tak
about it enough.
> Yes, I have had sex with this person, and quite honestly it is none of
> your business who I sleep with.
I didn't _ask_ you if you had sex with this person, so why are you even
_telling_ me??? Especially because you say it is none of my business.
> As for me conspiring with a child pornographer that is just more of
> your lies---
I used the word "supporting", not "conspiring, but conspiring is right in
one case. Oh, so you deny your involvement with Chad Knight. C'mon Tyler,
everybody in ADSGT saw what went on, they saw Chad and you post, you found
the info and had Chad post it *for* you! And _everybody_ saw you here in
RASAP, and in Randy's _Plainboy_ club, vehemently defend the right of a 30+
yo adult to publish pictures of his -17 yo lover, that is supporting child
porn, according to federal and state law, wether *you* like it or not!
>I was once knew someone online who was busted (rightfully
> so) for hooking up with a young minor, I never knew the person in
> real life, and I had spoke with him in email---I belong to several
> mailing list BIG DEAL!!!!!!!
And you are telling me this, because...???
> I do not know what most people do in their private life, and to be
> quite frank, most of the time I could care less. If they break the
> law that is for the cops to deal with, not me.
So, if you are aware of a crime, you would do _nothing_?
> I did re post PUBLIC deja news (now google) stuff from a person who
> claimed to be a teen---I only posted it because I felt this person was
> not a teen---Silly me I do not consider over 40 to be the teen years
> LOL The person was dumb enough to post his last name and I did a
> search and found where he was posting claiming to be both a teen and
> an adult in the email address that was supposed to belong to a "teen".
>
> The interesting thing is "both" of these people were from PA and had
> the same name, and were on webtv.
>
> Make all the claims you want about me, but it is not illegal to repost
> anything from the newsgroups, or ask a person if they are lying about
> their age.
You went way beyond that. Quite a number of people witnessed it.
> I can even remember you flaming me for posting online safety links
> that made it clear for teens to trust NO ONE because of how easy it
> is for people on here to lie about their age.
>
> Given that you claim to care so much about the online safety of
> minors, do you care to explain why you had such a problem with that
> advice?????
You are changing the subject, Cryler... :-) :-D
***=W=***
It is so funny that she resorts to name calling, stamping her cloven hooves, and refusing to answer (even when she demands answers from others) when it would incriminate her. I guess she knows answering would catch her in a lie---Just as her refusing to show proof that she was not just harassing Gay men online. The poor pathetic creature keeps trying to change the subject off of her homophobia, and why she targets gay men online---I guess she is too dumb to see that the more she replies, the more her bias against Gay men, and her motives become clear. Given that you claim to care so much about the online safety of
> minors, do you care to explain why you had such a problem with that > advice?????
A Hermaphrodite
It certainly represents the Catholicism I last heard about. Who cares
about the details and the offical authorizations?
all romantic, erotic same sex behavior that involves enjoyed dwelt upon
fantasy, buttocks, genitalia or romantic kissing is considered a grave
HELL DAMNING violation ot the RCC's teaching, fundy Christians and
Orthodox Jews(see ask the Rabbi) too. And we all know damned well those
mean assed Muslims will HEADCHOP you for it. SURAH 19-21(AND YOU MUST
HURT THEM BOTH).
UnaBlabboraLasagna
boyfriend Brian is almost 30. Does that bother you? I know it does,
so don't bother even answering.
Like I said b4, u are obsessed with Tyler, it's so obvious. And I bet
he is laffing at u the whole time. Jeez, I'm laffing too cuz u are
making such a fool out of yourself Carol. You hang with no-lifes like
Trailer Trash and Kevin, so that says a whole lot about you.
Oh yeah, about fake teen Bradleys EZ-Board, there were so many lies
there it wasnt even funny. I could set up my own EZ Board on my PC if
I wanted to, but why bother? I have a life, I have a BF, I dont have
time to waste on this internet foolishness.
You need a husband Carol , u got way too much free time and u need a
better hobby, have u considered needlepoint?
-
Carol
>It is so funny that she resorts to name calling, stamping her cloven
hooves,
>and refusing to answer (even when she demands answers from
>others) when it would incriminate her.
PKB
>I guess she knows answering would catch her in a lie--
Actually, I can't answer because I have *NO* recollection of this even that
you post about. "I can even remember you flaming me for posting online
safety links
that made it clear for teens to trust NO ONE because of how easy it is for
people on here to lie about their age." You than asked, "Given that you
claim to care so much about the online safety of minors, do you care to
explain why you had such a problem with that advice?????" My response is
"Did I"? I do not have to answer this because you are the one making the
accusation, therefore the burden of proof is on you to show when and where
this actually occured. Otherwise, it becomes _your_ word against _mine_,
which really ends up proving nothing, as that becomes a stalemate. I can't
*explain* anything, because I don't remember it ever occuring. So this does
not prove me a liar in any way at all.
>-Just as her refusing to show proof that she was not just harassing
>Gay men online.
First of all, the legal term 'harass' does not apply here. Observe, watch,
keep-track-of, and report when I see something very suspicious. All legal,
and _not_ harassment. I ask you again, how do I _prove_ that? Really! What
_proof_ would you like me to give? *I* *CANNOT* *EVEN* *PROVE* *ANYTHING*
*I* *SAID* *ABOUT* *THE* *TWO* *GAY* *MEN* ! I could be telling you lies
and fairy tales about them too! Yet you are willing to believe those!
>The poor pathetic creature keeps trying to change the subject
You don't get to decide what the subject is. The subject is whatever I and
other posters want it to be. We are allowed to change the subject for any
reason whatsoever and there is not a thing you can do about it.
>off of her homophobia, and why she targets gay men online---
Subjects that the majority clearly do not care about. You are beating a dead
horse on this one. It was put out of it's misery a long time ago.
>I guess she is too dumb to see that the more she replies, the
>more her bias against Gay men, and her motives become clear.
Is that another broken record I hear? Sure sounds like it! Actually, you are
the dumb one, my alleged 'bias' and supposed 'motives' are not any more
clear to anybody but you and a few measly others who somehow support you for
reasons unknown. You can claim the above all you want, that does not make it
true or correct. The majority is either silent (because they don't care one
way or another), or they disagree. BTW, repeating it over and over ad naseum
in hopes that others will accept your allegations as fact won't work. The
opposite is more likely to occur; it's called _indifference_.
Carol
> Hey Carol, have u ever seen Queer as Folk? Justin is only 18 and his
> boyfriend Brian is almost 30. Does that bother you? I know it does,
> so don't bother even answering.
I don't have cable, and don't want it, and 18 is a legal adult, and it's a
TV show; so why would that bother me? The Pricess of Wales was only 19 when
she married 31 yo Prince Charles. Most 18 yo, but not all, are mature enough
that a relationship with an older adult of 30 could work. Teens mature at
different rates. Emotional maturity reaches it's peak at approximately 21
years of age. Which is why drinking ages tend to be 21. 18 yo's have most of
the rights and priveleges of adulthood. 15 to 16 yo's are considered mature
enough to handle driving a car. 16 to 17 yo's, depending on which state you
live in, are considered capable of consent to have sex. But teens are still
emotionally growing, and don't always have the maturity for these things.
It's a gradual process. Some 17 yo are very mature and responsible for their
ages. Others are not. And some adults are very immature and irresponsible.
The laws attempt to protect those teens who are not fully mature, and
provide priveleges along with gradual autonomy. Society determined that the
majority of adolescents are capable of managing their own affairs once they
reach 18. Once the teen is 18, a relationship with someone 10 years older is
not as likely to be a problem. An 18 yo and a 40 yo is stretching it, hence
the middle-age crises that leads men to turn into skirt chasers of 18, 19,
20+ yo's (and yes, sometimes younger). There is really nothing all that
unusual with someone around 20 being with someone around 30. But minor teens
do best, emotionally, with those no more than 5 years older or younger than
them.
> Like I said b4, u are obsessed with Tyler, it's so obvious. And I bet
> he is laffing at u the whole time. Jeez, I'm laffing too cuz u are
> making such a fool out of yourself Carol. You hang with no-lifes like
> Trailer Trash and Kevin, so that says a whole lot about you.
I would hardly call Dave and Kevin no-lifes. Your portrayal of them as such
says a lot about you.
> Oh yeah, about fake teen Bradleys EZ-Board, there were so many lies
> there it wasnt even funny. I could set up my own EZ Board on my PC if
> I wanted to, but why bother?
I'll let Brad (or maybe Craig) address the part about the EZ-Board.
>I have a life, I have a BF, I dont have time to waste on this internet
>foolishness.
Spend more time with life and the BF and less obsessing about Nanook in
Alaska living in the igloo, 'k? Because if I am obsessed with _Tyler_
(vomit) :-P , you surely must be with Danny. You comment about him
_constantly_, I only deal with Ty-Liar when he comes in and starts trouble,
first, with me and my friends and aquantances.
> You need a husband Carol , u got way too much free time and u need a
>better hobby, have u considered needlepoint?
I have an apartment building 3/4 full of elderly ladies telling me to
*never* get a husband. 8-O Maybe someday I will have one, and maybe I
won't. Had a great aunt who finally married in her 60's. One guy I was
interested in married someone else. We are still friends, though. Another I
like is busy exploring going in the priesthood, only to have walls get in
the way. He hasn't thought about his vocation lying elsewhere, like being
married. He gave me a hug and a kiss the other evening when we parted, the
thing is that we have _so_ much in common. He's just not thinking outside
the box. The older he gets, the less likely _any_ bishop is to accept him.
His mother and my mom are good friends. I am in no hurry. If it's meant to
be, it will happen. Now it's just friendship.
As for a hobby, I do micro-mosaics and mosaics. I am gearing up to hopefully
go into business selling pieces in consignment shops. I have alread sold a
few. My apt. building manager, with permission of the landlord, paid me to
create custom mosaic tile stepping stones for the flag pole in front of the
building. One of my reasons for getting a PC is that I need it for home
business use. I have hundreds of pounds of assorted tiles here. Lot's of
wood items to tile and paint. Bottles and bottles of acrylic paints,
brushes, sponges, etc. Acrylic and polyurethane sealers and finishes, tools
(including a drill and hobby tool), and grout mix. I used to do needlework
years ago, mostly crewel, some crosstitch. Never did needlepoint, but have
done quickpoint (same thing, larger canvas weave, yard instead of floss or
thread). I am right handed, and since my shoulder was damaged from my
accident 10+ years ago, I have had problems. Needlework causes my hand to
cramp up. I have plenty to keep me busy, having a husband would not really
change anything, except income.
Carol
WONDER WOMAN
Maybe I am the only one who has noticed, but the ONLY people these fools are targeting are gay men.
I agree 100% when you say "Groups like Courage , Repative therapy and Ex-Gays try to get teen Gay people to live miserable celibate lives or marry heterosexual, someone they cannot love."
Carol time and time again has torn into me for calling COURAGE an anti Gay group and harmful to youth. She has always been quick to point out that the group is a "support" group and "follows the teachings of the church" She even had the nerve to call me a liar when I pointed out that COURAGE was founded on the idea that homosexual behavior is a sin. I am 31 and I am very openly Gay and I refuse to listen to the rantings of a bitch who does not support Gay marriage, and lives with the idea that Gay men who live outside her narrow view of sexuality are perverts. As far as I am concerned Carol's posting in the fundie group sums up her feelings on Gay men---I don't need or want to know anything else about her, because if a person feels Gay people need to "repent" or that Gay men are "practicing promoting homosexuals" I have no use for them---After all, I am one of the Gays she feels needs to "repent" FYI, I love to look at hot twinks, and I love to have sex with both older and younger guys, despite what Carol and a few others want to say this DOES NOT make me a pervert!!!!!! they can try, and try, BUT they can't bring be down or make me feel dirty for my sexuality.
A Hermaphrodite wrote:
Religious figure don't relate to the here and now? Where do you get all your moral codes and justification for being against same sex marriage? Personlly I no longer have any sexual preference for teens, but at 31, I certainly did, and so do many hetersexual men well over 30 with whom I worked, who knocked up teen girls all the time. Where all these heterosexual men immature and incapable of relations witha grown woman? Most were already married. LOL How does your present pope get away with telling his flock , they should be "one" with Muslims who follow their socially accepted female pedophile codes? 9 year old brides are not uncommon in Muslim countries..... Why all the main focus on teens? I would be worried more about true children (pre-puberty) who are hurt by pedophilia and richly by religious inspired self haitng homophobia not a 17 year old. Teenage is a grey area and a 17 year old just gives those, especially religious, who would like to see all same sex activity to stop, an easy shot at those who cross their artificial made line. How old was Mary when the Roman soldier screwed Mary, and they blamed it on and unseen middle east god. Most figure she was 14. Instead religionist would have you believe in the nonsense of a virgin birth, copying the legend of Isis (((Meri))), history's orignal immacualte mother.. Groups like Courage , Repative therapy and Ex-Gays try to get teen Gay people to live miserable celibate lives or marry heterosexual, someone they cannot love. This is all done in the very false notion they are pleasing a heterosexual male invented middle east god. Instead they are taught to live with the suspecion that all older Gays who would all want to seduce them, control them and abuse them. Hell I can't think of no worse group that does that to Gay youth no more than heterosexist religion, inciting sucides, beatings murders, legal incarceration, blackmail and inspiring social rejection. Jesus and his followers are the ENEMY of Gay people. They are the true molesters.
MM_
***=W=***
I do laugh at her, and I find her even more funny now that I have a good life---This bitch used to upset me, but it was only because I was at a low point in my life---I suffer from panic attacks, and Miss Bitch and other would play on that trying to push me over the edge.
What they fail to realize is I am doing much better, and not much they can do to cause me a panic attack---Sure, I still have them but the way I handle them is quite different than I used to.
Now as for QAF when Brian first got with Justin---Justin was 17 :-) I wish they had the balls to make it more like the British series because their young twink was a bit younger I think.
Also, I have issue with the fact they used a person almost 30 to play Justin rather than an actual person in that age group---I mean they could of used someone 18 or 19 instead of going down a road to keep the hetro censors happy.
BTW be careful telling Carol to take up needlepoint because in her mind that is the go ahead to start playing with voodoo dolls LOL
***=W=***
I love how she tried to side step the whole issue, but her explaining that she has paint and bottles of polyurethane on hand explains a lot of her odd online behavior---Huffing dangerous chemicals can cause serious delusions, and erratic behavior LOLĀ
Carol
>BTW be careful telling Carol to take up needlepoint because in
>her mind that is the go ahead to start playing with voodoo dolls
>LOL
What does needlepoint have to do with 'voodoo dolls'? Do you even know what
needlepoint _is_ ?
***=W=***
Considering you are nothing more than a hate mongering witch I thought voodoo dolls were a bit more your style :-P
***=W=***
Carol
>Should figure that Miss Thang does not have cable LOL
I could have it. I don't want it. I have no use for cable TV whatsoever. Why
waste money on something I really don't use? I used to have it, and I
ditched it. Now Adelphia bought out the local company, they are ripoffs, and
they have a record of numerous consumer complaints. Laughing over the fact
that I do not subscribe to cable sound pretty immature and stupid to me. But
you are famous for making stupid remarks. Or do you think having cable
somehow makes someone _superior_ or _better_ ?
>As for one of the guys she likes thinking of joining the priesthood---that
>is too damn funny, I could sit here all day making jokes on that very
subject
>LOL
Just goes to show how *you* practice intolerance. He wasn't just thinking,
he has been actually attempting to.
You twist what I wrote, which was "Another I
like is busy exploring going in the priesthood, only to have walls get in
the way." That's a long way from just thinking about it. If you find it
funny, doesn't that make you heterophobic, homosexist, priestphobic and,
dare I say, a bigot??? Just more immature nonsense from Cryler.
>I love how she tried to side step the whole issue,
Sidestep which issue? What did you see as the 'whole issue'?
>but her explaining that she has paint and bottles of polyurethane on
>hand explains a lot of her odd online behavior---Huffing dangerous
>chemicals can cause serious delusions, and erratic behavior LOL
Read again what I wrote, "Bottles and bottles of acrylic paints, brushes,
sponges, etc. Acrylic and polyurethane sealers and finishes, ..." Acrylic
craft paint is non-toxic and _does_ _not_ _give_ _off_ _fumes_. The
polyurethane I used is not the varnish stuff that you but at a paint or
hardware store. This is sealers and finishes that are designed to be used
for craft work with acrylic paints. These are *also* non-toxic, and require
*NO* ventilation. They are sold under names like 'Folkart', 'Delta',
'Aleene's', 'Deco Art', 'Anita's', 'Apple Barrel', etc. See link below for
an example.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=41213&item=8106699972&rd=1
Not all types of paints and finishes give off fumes, nor consists of
dangerous chemicals. I can't believe that you are _that_ stupid to not know
that. But then again, perhaps you are. If I used hobby enamel or industrial
type acylic enamels, I would end up in the ER with a severe asthma attack.
No thanks! I use *craft* *paint*, which is designed for use on wood. This is
the same grade of acrylic paint used for childrens toys. You ass-u-me
incorrectly, and it just makes you look dumb in the process. Not that it's
hard to do.... :-P