1. Bone has alot of platinum albums and singles. The Spice Girls don't.
2. Bone has alot of good videos that are always on top of the countdowns. The
Spice Girls are on the top sometimes, but their videos aren't that great.
3. All of the Bone members cover up their bodies. The Spice Girls do not.
4. Bone has style, class, good music, and positivity toward God. The Spice
Girls don't have any of that. (When the Spice Girls accept awards, do they ever
thank God? No.)
5. Bone never says stupid things like "Girl Power!"
6. Everyone in Bone is Black, and most of the Spice Girls are white.
So, if you do think that Bone is like the Spice Girls, that's your opinion, and
I can respect that. But I think that your statement makes Bone look bad. I
mean, of all groups to compare them to! The only thing they have in common is
that they are a musical group. Nothing more.
~Olivia :-)
No, Bone makes Bone look bad.
>I
>mean, of all groups to compare them to! The only thing they have in common is
>that they are a musical group. Nothing more.
And the fact that both groups are a bunch of bitches!
\\_ _//
=(_T_)=
PIMP
hahaahah!! i agree completely but spice girls do look better ya think?
: \\_ _//
: =(_T_)=
: PIMP
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Sae Bok (Andrew) Kim "...lookin' straight charmy in our
Dept. of Biochemistry Georgio Armani..."
Memorial University of Newfoundland - Kool G Rap from "Fast Life"
*email* n5...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca
*website* www.ucs.mun.ca/~n59ak "In a crowd of Caucasions, two
Chinese people are already like
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ family."
Listen to "Vibes & Stuff" on CHMR + - Amy Tan from "The Joy Luck Club"
93.5 FM, Fridays, 3 to 5 pm +
Request Line: 737-7935 + "If I shoot you, I'm brainless,
Co-hosts: Tim Aucoin, + but if you shoot me, you're
Aaron Newell, & Andrew Ryall + famous..."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - Jay Z from "Streets Is Watching"
tiva catanese (sugar...@webtv.net) wrote:
: I totally disagree. How many times do I have to say it SPICE GIRLS HAVE
: NO MUSICAL TALENT!! You think bone sux but you can't flow like them.
: Nobody can flow like them. PEACE
you mean few professional musicians can sing so horrible that dogs cry
when their music is played?
: 1. Bone has alot of platinum albums and singles. The Spice Girls don't.
spice girls have 1 album, which sold more than 15 million units..bone
thugs don't come near to reaching the same level of success spice girls
are enjoying now..
: 2. Bone has alot of good videos that are always on top of the countdowns. The
: Spice Girls are on the top sometimes, but their videos aren't that great.
matter of opinion..i'd rather look at 5 pretty girls as opposed to 4
raggedy men..
: 3. All of the Bone members cover up their bodies. The Spice Girls do not.
this is a stupid point..
: 4. Bone has style, class, good music, and positivity toward God. The Spice
: Girls don't have any of that. (When the Spice Girls accept awards, do they ever
: thank God? No.)
bone thugs have class, style and good music?
: 5. Bone never says stupid things like "Girl Power!"
what an incredible observation
: 6. Everyone in Bone is Black, and most of the Spice Girls are white.
again i'm stunned by your brilliance
: So, if you do think that Bone is like the Spice Girls, that's your opinion, and
: I can respect that. But I think that your statement makes Bone look bad. I
: mean, of all groups to compare them to! The only thing they have in common is
: that they are a musical group. Nothing more.
don't you think he meant for bone thugs to look bad by his statement?
personally, i think bone thugs do a hell of a job making themselves look
bad without the help of ppl on alt.rap...
: ~Olivia :-)
tiva catanese <sugar...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<69m9fe$3uk$1...@newsd-154.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Whatever man,"
-Redman-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On 17 Jan 1998, Andrew Kim wrote:
> OEL1234392 (oel12...@aol.com) wrote:
> : No, I don't. Let's compare the two:
>
> : 1. Bone has alot of platinum albums and singles. The Spice Girls don't.
>
> spice girls have 1 album, which sold more than 15 million units..bone
> thugs don't come near to reaching the same level of success spice girls
> are enjoying now..
>
> : 2. Bone has alot of good videos that are always on top of the countdowns. The
> : Spice Girls are on the top sometimes, but their videos aren't that great.
>
> matter of opinion..i'd rather look at 5 pretty girls as opposed to 4
> raggedy men..
>
> : 3. All of the Bone members cover up their bodies. The Spice Girls do not.
>
> this is a stupid point..
>
> : 4. Bone has style, class, good music, and positivity toward God. The Spice
> : Girls don't have any of that. (When the Spice Girls accept awards, do they ever
> : thank God? No.)
Man, have you ever heard a rap musician that hasn't thanked god? Every
single chance they get they're thanking him for being alive, or for being
able to accept an award. And he always the first person they thank on the
liner notes of there albums. Gods got nothing to do with there success,
its just some dumb rapper thing.
I love their first two records (the one with "Thuggish Ruggish Bone" and the
one with "First of Tha' Month")...
The ONLY reason the Spice Girls succeeded is because a corporate exec put them
together to sell records through sexuality... Sell their asses, sell their
music... Having an ex-nude model in the band doesn't hurt to sell their
music.....
Bone will ALWAYS rule!!!
"Creative so I'll never be regarded as a regular
more than just a little bit better than my competitor"
D.O.C.
if my spice history serves me correctly, the girls got together themselves
and created their own image, which they sold to the
corporations..personally, i think the girl who posed nude in a magazine is
the ugliest of the 5..
: Bone will ALWAYS rule!!!
if you think like that, what a 5 year old will say, i guess you'll ALWAYS
be an idiot
> matter of opinion..i'd rather look at 5 pretty girls as opposed to 4
>> raggedy men..
I'm a female, so I like looking at men, not half-naked women.
>this is a stupid point..
You may think it is stupid, but it's true.
>Man, have you ever heard a rap musician that hasn't thanked god? Every
>single chance they get they're thanking him for being alive, or for being
>able to accept an award. And he always the first person they thank on the
>liner notes of there albums. Gods got nothing to do with there success,
>its just some dumb rapper thing.
This just goes to show you why rappers get further in life than groups like the
Spice Girls. God has helped them along the way, and he's the reason for all the
success. It's seems like you don't like God, but you should. After all, he
created you.
>what an incredible observation
Well, to me, this is "incredible." Bone represents Cleveland, instead of some
useless saying. What does "Girl Power" mean, anyway?
>again i'm stunned by your brilliance
As if you are more brilliant than me! You say things, but you never explain
them or support them with facts.
> don't you think he meant for bone thugs to look bad by his statement?
Maybe he did, but he asked for people's opinions. In my opinion, they are much
better than the Spice Girls, and they always will be.
: 1. Bone has alot of platinum albums and singles. The Spice Girls don't.
Spice Girls have probably sold over 20 million records already and all of
their singles have hit the top 5. All of their singles in England have
hit number 1.
: 2. Bone has alot of good videos that are always on top of the countdowns. The
: Spice Girls are on the top sometimes, but their videos aren't that great.
Bone and the Spice Girls don't direct their own videos so you can't really
say who's better at that. Bone does make nice videos but I think the
Spice Girls do too, for certain reasons.
: 3. All of the Bone members cover up their bodies. The Spice Girls do not.
Spice Girls know that sex sells and showing ass will definately get some
more fans.
: 4. Bone has style, class, good music, and positivity toward God. The Spice
: Girls don't have any of that. (When the Spice Girls accept awards, do they ever
: thank God? No.)
Why do they have all that devil shit in their albums?
: 5. Bone never says stupid things like "Girl Power!"
But they do say stuff like this from their albums
"FDJSLFKJSLKJDGJTIJETWEED,LET'SSMOKE,LET'SGETHIGH,ASETIJASTIJAPSITJAOIEWJT.
WHO CAN understandthem?
: 6. Everyone in Bone is Black, and most of the Spice Girls are white.
and.....?
: So, if you do think that Bone is like the Spice Girls, that's your opinion, and
: I can respect that. But I think that your statement makes Bone look bad. I
: mean, of all groups to compare them to! The only thing they have in common is
: that they are a musical group. Nothing more.
Basically Bone Thugs and the Spice Girls play toward two completely
different markets. You can't really compared both because there's nothing
really in common between the two.
Andrew Kim <n5...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> wrote in article
<69rgum$bsg$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
1. They are both pop icons.
2. both are plastic.
3. both groups aim their music at twelve year-olds.
4. both will hopefully be gone soon.
get it?
and Bass5676 the albums are Creepin On Ah Come Up and
E.1999 Eternal
: > matter of opinion..i'd rather look at 5 pretty girls as opposed to 4
: >> raggedy men..
: I'm a female, so I like looking at men, not half-naked women.
: >this is a stupid point..
: You may think it is stupid, but it's true.
i may think you're stupid, and it's true..
: >Man, have you ever heard a rap musician that hasn't thanked god? Every
: >single chance they get they're thanking him for being alive, or for being
: >able to accept an award. And he always the first person they thank on the
: >liner notes of there albums. Gods got nothing to do with there success,
: >its just some dumb rapper thing.
: This just goes to show you why rappers get further in life than groups like the
: Spice Girls. God has helped them along the way, and he's the reason for all the
: success. It's seems like you don't like God, but you should. After all, he
: created you.
don't go pushing christianity on this NG..do you really think bone
practices chasity before marriage and all that fun stuff your christian
butt believes? get real..saying 'thank god' after winning an award doesn't
counter balance being everything bone is about, which, if you don't know,
you better ask somebody..
: >what an incredible observation
: Well, to me, this is "incredible." Bone represents Cleveland, instead of some
: useless saying. What does "Girl Power" mean, anyway?
i dunno, i guess girl power means girls doing stuff for themselves, rather
than hanging off the dick of a man, or a group of rappers, like you..you
go something similar, called whore power..
: >again i'm stunned by your brilliance
: As if you are more brilliant than me! You say things, but you never explain
: them or support them with facts.
here's a fact: you're an idiot..here's the evidence: your posts
: > don't you think he meant for bone thugs to look bad by his statement?
: Maybe he did, but he asked for people's opinions. In my opinion, they are much
: better than the Spice Girls, and they always will be.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Andrew Kim <n5...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> wrote in article
<6a285m$cuj$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
STRA...@webtv.net wrote in article
<69vlhb$g35$1...@newsd-164.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
that dumb ass tiva catanese (sugar...@webtv.net) wrote:
: Dumbass God has everything to do with evryones success. He made them in
: the first place. You should thank God DAILY, for the fact he lets an
: ignorant bastard like you walk the streets. Your very lucky he is
: forgiving.
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
jayawardane (jj...@dircon.co.uk) wrote:
: Yeh hate to say this Andrew but it's a well none fact here in england that
: the spice girls were formed in response to an advert by a record company
: for girls who could sing and dance to audition for an all girl pop group,
: they didn't form themselves... and subsequently their characters were built
: by the record company execs.. although they claim to be who they appear to
: be eg.. sporty is actually sporty etc. but it's also well known that in the
: begining they had a different baby spice who quit and they now have a new
: one.!!! And if u claim to find the topless model the ugliest u aint fully
: a man. Bone will always be so much more dignified than this and totally
: original and all their fans are over the age of five and don't just love
: them for their bodies.
: elle
: Andrew Kim <n5...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> wrote in article
: <69rgum$bsg$1...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
: > Bass5676 (bass...@aol.com) wrote:
: > : I don't agree... I like Bone A LOT more than the Spice Girls....
: >
: > : I love their first two records (the one with "Thuggish Ruggish Bone"
: and the
: > : one with "First of Tha' Month")...
: >
: >
: > : The ONLY reason the Spice Girls succeeded is because a corporate exec
: put them
: > : together to sell records through sexuality... Sell their asses, sell
: their
: > : music... Having an ex-nude model in the band doesn't hurt to sell their
: > : music.....
: >
: > if my spice history serves me correctly, the girls got together
: themselves
: > and created their own image, which they sold to the
: > corporations..personally, i think the girl who posed nude in a magazine
: is
: > the ugliest of the 5..
: >
: > : Bone will ALWAYS rule!!!
: >
: > if you think like that, what a 5 year old will say, i guess you'll ALWAYS
: > be an idiot
: >
: > --
: >
: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
: -
: > Sae Bok (Andrew) Kim "...lookin' straight charmy in our
: > Dept. of Biochemistry Georgio Armani..."
: > Memorial University of Newfoundland - Kool G Rap from "Fast Life"
: > *email* n5...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca
: > *website* www.ucs.mun.ca/~n59ak "In a crowd of Caucasions, two
: > Chinese people are already like
: > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ family."
: > Listen to "Vibes & Stuff" on CHMR + - Amy Tan from "The Joy Luck Club"
: > 93.5 FM, Fridays, 3 to 5 pm +
: > Request Line: 737-7935 + "If I shoot you, I'm brainless,
: > Co-hosts: Tim Aucoin, + but if you shoot me, you're
: > Aaron Newell, & Andrew Ryall + famous..."
: > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - Jay Z from "Streets Is Watching"
: >
Andrew Kim <n5...@morgan.ucs.mun.ca> wrote in article
<6a3q5l$kr3$3...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca>...
I'm not trying to push Christianity on this newsgroup at all. And did I even
mention chastity before marriage? No. I don't know Bone, so I can't say
anything about what they do in their personal lives.
>..you
>go something similar, called whore power..
>
>
Whore power??? Is that what you think I do? Well, it's not. YOU are the one who
does something called Dumbass Power. You post senseless messages that reflect
on your ignorance and stupidity. I'm not a whore, so you can't call me one. Ask
anyone in this NG if you are a dumbass, and I'll bet they'll say yes.
>
>here's a fact: you're an idiot..here's the evidence: your posts
Um, have you ever heard of these two big words (for you) called punctuation,
and capitalization? Learn them and use them! Your posts are the ones with no
commas, periods, incorrect spelling, etc. The next time, you want to call
someone an idiot, look in the mirror first instead of coming to me.
~Olivia :-)
Roberts wrote:
> I'm sitting here reading al the stuff in this news group. Everybody is
> basically just a bunch of haters, including myself. Bone is dope. I bet
> you wouldn't say they are the spice girls of rap to thier face....cause
> soon after, you wouldn't have a face
Oh yeah, I 'll tell them straight in their ugly faces.
What are they gonna do, cry me to death?
now, after i told him to shut the fuck up through email and correctly
described him as the waste of human sperm as he is, tiva comes and posts
this bullshit..if anybody is impressed by your pathetic ababab rhyme
scheme song you put out below, or your 'you a bitch, eat a dick' flame
then it's actually probably you, reading your posts 2-3 times over
again..anyways, i'm going to take this post you just wrote and read it on
my radio show tomorrow..i'll give out your email address too and all that
fun stuff so ppl can catch up on your skills..buy tiva stock before they
blow up in 2 years..you are so small and tiny and insignificant it's
hurting you deep inside isn't it?
tiva catanese (sugar...@webtv.net) wrote:
: You alwys got something to say, but you a bitch. ANDREW KIM is a pus
--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
: I'm not trying to push Christianity on this newsgroup at all. And did I even
: mention chastity before marriage? No. I don't know Bone, so I can't say
: anything about what they do in their personal lives.
you wrote: "God rules..bone rules cos they love God..they appreciate
God..spice girls suck because they don't appreciate God"..that's some
serious pro-Christian bullshit right there..I don't give two logs of your
momma's shit whether or not bone says 'thanks God' when they win an
award..that does not indicate any sincerity, and with their lifestyle
(which I don't oppose) it only goes to prove they are hypocrites..but hey,
i don't mind..you're just too dumb to realize this..
: >..you
: >go something similar, called whore power..
: >
: >
: Whore power??? Is that what you think I do? Well, it's not. YOU are the one who
: does something called Dumbass Power. You post senseless messages that reflect
: on your ignorance and stupidity. I'm not a whore, so you can't call me one. Ask
: anyone in this NG if you are a dumbass, and I'll bet they'll say yes.
nice comeback sis..maybe i should say you have dumber than a dumbass power
and we can make this thing into a real catfight..your post was the moronic
one..if you recall, there are 500 followups to your posts calling you
indirectly an idiot..i just happen to be direct..
: >
: >here's a fact: you're an idiot..here's the evidence: your posts
: Um, have you ever heard of these two big words (for you) called punctuation,
: and capitalization? Learn them and use them! Your posts are the ones with no
: commas, periods, incorrect spelling, etc. The next time, you want to call
: someone an idiot, look in the mirror first instead of coming to me.
listen becky, i don't really care whether or not my posts have the right
comma locations et al..if you had a fucking clue you'd realize i'm not
ATTEMPTING to use proper sentence and paragraph structures..oh yeah, there
are no incorrect spelling in my posts..nice try to make me look bad,
though..next time i want to call someone an idiot, i'll just read on your
posts and reply, hahaha...
: ~Olivia :-)
Roberts (sr...@execpc.com) wrote:
: I'm sitting here reading al the stuff in this news group. Everybody is
: basically just a bunch of haters, including myself. Bone is dope. I bet
: you wouldn't say they are the spice girls of rap to thier face..cause
: soon after, you wouldn't have a face. If you wanna dis someone..dis
: Puffy..he's pure garbage.
--
tiva catanese (sugar...@webtv.net) wrote:
: Puffy's that shit.Touch his garbage? you ain't fit.
tiva catanese (sugar...@webtv.net) wrote:
: You are such a stupid ass liar! Who the hell got time to email someone
: twice a day? I got too much shit goin' on to fuck wit your dumb-ass.
: Plus, I never said I knew Puffy, lying ass. And as for tha skills,
: nigga, I don't even rap, I sing and I will blow up nigga. Plus I"M A
: GIRL ASSHOLE!!!!!
Aziz Errafay <aerr...@medcare.nl> wrote in article
<34C740ED...@medcare.nl>...
>
>
> Roberts wrote:
>
> > I'm sitting here reading al the stuff in this news group. Everybody is
> > basically just a bunch of haters, including myself. Bone is dope. I bet
Andrew Kim, if you actually read what I wrote, you would see that I did not
write a word of that! Saying that God "rules" is just wrong. To me, that's
disrespecting Him. If I want to talk about God, I could use a better word than
that. Also, I would never say that Bone rules. I like Bone, but they are not my
favorite group. Finally, don't even try to say that I told you the Spice Girls
sucked. I don't like them, that's all. I would never even lower myself to the
point where the only way to downtalk a group is to say that they "suck." So
don't put words in my mouth and go "suck" a dick.
*******************************************************************************
CANDICE (KING-KING) ENGLIS
CHINAY POWER
IT'Z ALL ABOUTZ DA KEJI'S BABY
On 22 Jan 1998, Andrew Kim wrote:
> let me enlighten all the readers of this NG..it's true most of what i
> write is negative, it's also true that most of the posts on this NG are
> stupid, it's also true that most of the stupid posts on this NG is written
> by tiva '2pac is da bomb diggy' cantonese and most
> of what i write is directed to and written to tiva..tiva's been send me
> about 2 emails a day talking shit, like how he's going to run the rap game
> in 2 years, how he's big buds with puff daddy, and how he's going to make
> everybody in this NG drool over his supreme lyrical genius..
>
> now, after i told him to shut the fuck up through email and correctly
> described him as the waste of human sperm as he is, tiva comes and posts
> this bullshit..if anybody is impressed by your pathetic ababab rhyme
> scheme song you put out below, or your 'you a bitch, eat a dick' flame
> then it's actually probably you, reading your posts 2-3 times over
> again..anyways, i'm going to take this post you just wrote and read it on
> my radio show tomorrow..i'll give out your email address too and all that
> fun stuff so ppl can catch up on your skills..buy tiva stock before they
> blow up in 2 years..you are so small and tiny and insignificant it's
> hurting you deep inside isn't it?
>
> tiva catanese (sugar...@webtv.net) wrote:
> : You alwys got something to say, but you a bitch. ANDREW KIM is a pus
> : ass niggga. He ain't nothing but a punk. He's always talking shit to the
> : ladies. That's probally why his ass is always on the net. HE AIN"T GOT
> : NO GAME!! HA HA. He thinks I don't exist except on tha net. How stupid
> : can you get? GO back to elementry scool, you gotta learn your manners.
> : Here's something I'm bout to frstyle just for you.
> : Andrew Kim
> : Yeah he's a bitch the punk of the day.
> : If anyone talks he's got something to say
> : No one knows why he's gotta talk shit.
> : Maybe he's mad cuz the smallest jock strap wont fit.
> : He talks shit about every1 Snoop, puff, and Pac
> : Look, punk this shit gotta stop.
> : Nobody cares that the light in your head is dim
> : So get the hell out lil bitch ass Kimmy Kim.
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Whatever man,"
-Redman-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Homicide's illegal and death is the penalty,
But what justifies the homicide when he dies?"
-Master Killa
OEL1234392 (oel12...@aol.com) wrote:
: >God rules..bone rules cos they love God..they appreciate
--
actually they are groups of artists..i think the logic behind the original
post was, bone thugs music is crap..it's a given that spice girls music is
also crap..and hence the comparison..by the way, when was alt.rap ever
"strong"? when you have writers primarily from utah and alabama posting
here, half of which consists of "puffy rules!" or "tupac is the bomb!",
there isn't much you *could* expect..
: "Homicide's illegal and death is the penalty,
: But what justifies the homicide when he dies?"
: -Master Killa
executing rapists, serial killers and terrorists justifies itself...wu
tang science stinks..
You know what? I was finished with you a long time ago. And now you're trying
tto say that I have no argument and that I'm the stupid one? Well, I think it's
the other way around. See, I found this in one of your messages:
<< when you have writers primarily from utah and alabama posting
here, half of which consists of "puffy rules!" or "tupac is the bomb!",
there isn't much you *could* expect>>
That right there probably offended a whole lot of people, mostly because it's
trash. Why would you even do something as stupid as stereotyping people from
Alabama and Utah? I could curse at you, send you a whole lot of hate mail, and
even send you proggies, but I'm not gonna do that. I'm just gonna let you go on
typing up this stupid shit that everyone hates. In case you haven't realized it
yet, hardly anyone in here likes you, including me. So you can keep calling me
stupid if you want, but I'm not gonna be bothered with you any more.
Olivia
listen to whateva makes u feel good.
MO mUrdA
OEL1234392 (oel12...@aol.com) wrote:
: >
: >i'm finished talking with you..you're too stupid..since you cannot
: Olivia
--
>
>
Yo, why dont you trim that sig a bit? Four or five lines is polite, what kind
of shit is this?
---
oleg issers
Check out the Unofficial NWO Homepage at
http://members.aol.com/dikobraz69/nwo.htm
Well, since you obviously don't like it, I'll keep my "Christian views" to
myself, OK? And did I ever describe Bone by using the words "da bomb?" No, I
don't talk like that. And that little part about cellulose in my thighs? Well,
I don't have none 'cause my thighs are all natural. Why are you even up in my
thighs, anyway? So I'll just take my "liberal views" elsewhere, and you can
stick your plastic dick up YOUR ass.
cellulose is fat, honey, like you..
Well, let's stop talking about our bodies because only one of us actually has a
good one (me). Actually, if you like talking about "fat" people so much, just
go running to your little spice sluts.
Olivia
OEL1234392 (oel12...@aol.com) wrote:
: >cellulose is fat, honey, like you.
: Olivia
--