what is all this fake shit
wil...@vax.sonoma.edu
alot of rappers who are not rappers who are just cashing om on a
black mans idea. Fake rappers like Vannila Ice, Marky Mark, and alot
of others. Real rap is when it comes from the heart not from some producer.
Robert C
Steven John Knezevich
"Everybody rapping like it's a commercial...acting like life is a big
commercial....this is what I got to say to y'all....be true to yourself
and you will never fall...."
Dude, fake rap is fake rap.....TLC for example....remember that there are
concerned artist....(I say this because all my roommates disagree)....rap
is an art form. It is THE art form of the future. In fact I believe that
it will change the world.......for the better. "There is a changing of
consciousness on this planet today...." -Farakahan? (I know I spelled it
wrong) If I ever get depressed about fake rap....I think, geez, I wonder
what Vanilla Ice and The New Kids are doing in Hollywood today? Try jack
shit.
Steve Knezevich
tra...@next05wor.wam.umd.edu
writes:
Non-flame response:
Curiously, what's your opinion of L.L.Cool J and how people reacted to his
last two albums, the second of the two produced by Marley Marl?
Though I understand how much L.L. is respected by so many, I also was one
of the people who thought L.L. made is fall with _Panther_{can't remember
the full title. Then his last album is made with the help of Marley & he
just wrecks shit like he used to...
P. Ialamanna
Is it coincidence or are you racist when you list only whites as fake rappers?
Also, what's wrong with cashing in on a black man's idea?
I ain't racist but black people cash in on white's ideas so what's the big
deal? It's called CAPITALISM. By the way, I find that a lot of rap today is
about selling records, in otherwards, just like all the other types of music.
--
********************************************************************************* - P. Ialamanna - " I think you hear me knocking and I think I'm coming *
in, and I'm bringing my big, bad opinions with me" **
*I represent the Univ. of Illinois. (Along with 50,000 others)===DISCLAIMER== *
********************************************************************************
Adrian Bradley
In article <BvFHF...@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, pa5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (P. Ialamanna) writes:
> In article <1992Sep29...@vax.sonoma.edu> wil...@vax.sonoma.edu writes:
> >Today there are a lot of rappers out there who are fake. There are
> >alot of rappers who are not rappers who are just cashing om on a
> >black mans idea. Fake rappers like Vannila Ice, Marky Mark, and alot
> >of others. Real rap is when it comes from the heart not from some producer.
>
> Is it coincidence or are you racist when you list only whites as fake rappers?
> Also, what's wrong with cashing in on a black man's idea?
> I ain't racist but black people cash in on white's ideas so what's the big
> deal? It's called CAPITALISM. By the way, I find that a lot of rap today is
> about selling records, in otherwards, just like all the other types of music.
> --
Well, your right - there are other rappers that can be considered "fake"
rappers. We've had discussions about them on this net since last year.
Now for my $0.02:
Anyone who hasn't grown up in hip-hop culture may not fully understand it.
I tend to separate this culture/art from the business side of music, where
lawyers, producers, and other people come in. It's a shame that those who may
not grow up with the culture but have the connections and business pull can
make $$$ while the rest of us who just hang out and freestyle rap with the
fellaz can only dream about success. I've also heard that a lot of record
companies buy in to what seems to be selling and they dress their rappers,
tell them what to write about, and use them in order to give the company
more notoriety and fame. Many of us that consider ourselves "true" hip - hop
fans make it a point to diss music from these record companies and support
those that promote black awareness, the "spirit of hip-hop" that reflects the
street origin, etc. Folx like PE, BDP, Run DMC, A.T.C.Q., Yo Yo, Mc Lyte, etc
are example of those who not only sell records, but gain respect at the
same time. Hammer, Vanilla Ice, Marky Mark, etc... sell records but getz no
respect.
In fact, we can date this discussion back a few months ago, when we were
distinquishing rap with hip hop. While rap could refer to the business of
talking over a beat to make music, hip-hop encompasses the whole "culture" of
black experiences - i.e. Hip hop doesn't necessarily make big bucks, but its
something most of us not only like to listen to, we like to DO it as well.
The subject of racism and blacks cashing in on whites ideas probably belongs
in another newsgroup, although rappers listening to white or jew management
as to what to do and when is an example of this. In other words...
"Stick to underground funk, keep the crossover!" - EPMD
PEACE...
==AD
PS feel free to email me (or post) if your opinion differs
Steven John Knezevich
>Also, what's wrong with cashing in on a black man's idea?
>I ain't racist but black people cash in on white's ideas so what's the big
>deal? It's called CAPITALISM. By the way, I find that a lot of rap today is
>about selling records, in otherwards, just like all the other types of music.
No, I am not a racist and I don't just think that there are only cheesy white
rappers, there are a lot of cheesy black ones as well (TLC, criss cross, and
all that other fake shit) What I am saying is that rap, from my perspective
and from where I'm from, was a way to bring the white kids and the black kids
together under one art form with mutual idols that are exuding a mutually
peaceful ideology. Regardless of race, the artist's words and their presence
on stage and the energy and the sheer force and momentum of the beats easily
brought people of all races together in a peaceful way. Of course it was all
to make money, but when I think back to my breakdancin' days, it was different.
People gave a shit and the artists, who never really got huge like Grandmaster
Flash and the rest, were heroes for kids that played on the street. That's
what I remember. I don't remember the color of the kids that I hung out with,
I remember their names and their families and what I liked about them. Color
wasn't, and still isn't, an issue. Either on my street or in my CD player.
Peace
Kang Su Gatlin
>Is it coincidence or are you racist when you list only whites as fake rappers?
>Also, what's wrong with cashing in on a black man's idea?
>I ain't racist but black people cash in on white's ideas so what's the big
>deal? It's called CAPITALISM. By the way, I find that a lot of rap today is
>about selling records, in otherwards, just like all the other types of music.
>--
>********************************************************************************* - P. Ialamanna - " I think you hear me knocking and I think I'm coming *
> in, and I'm bringing my big, bad opinions with me" **
>*I represent the Univ. of Illinois. (Along with 50,000 others)===DISCLAIMER== *
>********************************************************************************
Black's cashed in on white ideas. I'd be hard like to hear some good
examples of this. The fact of the matter is few Black's have ever "Cashed
In".
------------>KSG
klm...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
I agree, sort of. I think they are just a fad. The little 13 year old kids
trying to sound like they are grown men thing will get played out soon. First
of all, they write none of their lyrics, nor produce any of their beats. If I
am wrong about either of those 2 statements, PLEASE correct me. I have gotten
into this discussion with one of my boys and concluded that maybe the dark
skin one will be around for a while because it sort of seems like it comes
naturally to him, but the other one will be outtie wuth the quickness. He
looks like he is trying too hard to be something he is not. And its kind of
fucked up because while they are doing what they are doing now, they are not
going to school, and have no tutors(I think I read that in the Source). Will
there money be managed well enough for them to live comfortably for the rest
of their lives? And as far as their lyrics go, I think the guy who writes
their lyrics hopefully realizes that his lyrics are good coming out of kids,
but dude is like 19, 20 years old. He said that if he knew "Jump" was gonna
be so big, he would have rapped it himself. That shit never would have sold
coming out the mouth of a 19 year old man!
K-Mello
SHYGUY Productions
klm...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
>
>Non-flame response:
>Curiously, what's your opinion of L.L.Cool J and how people reacted to his
>last two albums, the second of the two produced by Marley Marl?
>Though I understand how much L.L. is respected by so many, I also was one
>of the people who thought L.L. made is fall with _Panther_{can't remember
>the full title. Then his last album is made with the help of Marley & he
>just wrecks shit like he used to...
Personally, I think "Walking With A Panther" was a very slept on album. How
many songs off that album got play? "Nitro", "Big Ole Butt", etc... The
beats were pretty dope, and the lyrics were good. I don't know why this
album got no respect except for maybe the fact that I think that it came out
around the same that Kool Moe Dee dissed LL HARD! I mean like 2 weeks after
the album came out, they were selling it at clearance prices, EVERYWHERE. I
bought 2 copies , and I dont feel I got caught out there. I know I will
probably end up sampling some of the album for beats.
K-Mello
SHYGUY Productions
ter...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
Yo, what up K-M?
Yes, Kriss Kross do have tutors, though one of them is kind of hoody and
never does any work; usually finds his way out of it (this from a summer issue
of The Hip Hop Connection, HHC, a English Hip Hop Mag; come on by and pick it
up sometime). None respect to Kriss Kross, ABC, and the likes. Not for their
not writing their own lyrics (The Real Roxanne doesn't either, but, she's booty
too, huh?), not for their not producing their own beats (a lot of hip hoppers
don't or shouldn't ie. Kane, Master Ace, etc.), but for the styles they are
doing and for being programmed robots for their producers. It seems these kids
have no real talent. The producers write the lyrics, make the beats, say wear
this, act like this, etc, etc, etc. It's like a combination. Even somebody
like the Real Roxanne, who had Chubb Rock write her lyrics and produce the
beats, had input on what she wanted her songs to be about, how she wanted
everything to come of, etc. Besides what the parents take, I wonder how much
money the writer/producers like Michael Bivins gets, especially since they did
everything but get out there and recite. Respect to Chi-Ali for being
Chi-Ali, who should be around for a bit since he has a persona of his own.
T-Dub
SHYGUY productions
Kevvy Kev
> >Today there are a lot of rappers out there who are fake. There are
> >alot of rappers who are not rappers who are just cashing om on a
> >black mans idea. Fake rappers like Vannila Ice, Marky Mark, and alot
> >of others. Real rap is when it comes from the heart not from some producer.
>
> Is it coincidence or are you racist when you list only whites as fake rappers?
He listed two artists. Can you say, "statistically insignificant?" I Knew
You Could.
> Also, what's wrong with cashing in on a black man's idea?
Ah, *man*. . .
> I ain't racist but black people cash in on white's ideas so what's the big
> deal? It's called CAPITALISM.
It's called musical genocide.
> By the way, I find that a lot of rap today is
> about selling records, in otherwards, just like all the other types of music.
For the record: you don't sound like you're racist. . .but if ignorance were a
crime, you'd get the chair. "What's the big deal?" I don't even know where
to begin. Suffice it to say that whites have been cashing in on black music
in America since there were blacks in America. History repeats like a Mobius
strip. I'm out, before I get seriously pissed.
Kevvy Kev
"It was a musical renaissance, that started within the hearts
And minds and souls of those who rose, reached their goals
Stood tall, and spited the odds
And got Hard even though downtrod"
_Between the Grooves_
© 1992 K. Montague
Kang Su Gatlin
Why everyone trippin' off ABC. (I do agree KK is wack cause they front a
role). ABC does write some of their own lyrics , SpiderMan, also their just
kids at this point and guidance could only help them later (Ala New Edition
became the virtually self contained stars they are now, even though they
don't write and produce most of their own stuff). If anybody would turn
down a shot to let Biv produce em and write their stuff, but you
yourselves got paid and got your own album you'd be a fool.
TLC is another example I believe of a solid R&B group. I don't know why
people can't understand they are different from Cube, 2Pac, PE, and the
such. I don't hear people dissin' Guy when they dropped Groove Me or Boyz
2 Men when they dropped Motown Philly or Bobby Brown when he drops just
about any of his dance jams. TLC doesn't front hardcore Rap nor do they rap
it or make any implicit jabs that they are such. Why is it that everything
that's black have to be hardcore? I think our culture is a bit more diverse
than this.
-----------------> KSG
wil...@vax.sonoma.edu
about something that is true and from the heart. Not all this bull
shit that some of these rappers are throwing out. And dont give me any of
this shit about Capitalism. It is still fake rap and sounds like shit
I just think it is a shame because we have all these rappers out
there trying to spread the word about peace and all these fake rappers
are getting all the headlines.
P. Ialamanna
>Why is it that everything
>that's black have to be hardcore? I think our culture is a bit more diverse
>than this.
> -----------------> KSG
I agree, Why is it that when a successful rapper does not deal with hardcore
issues (Hammer, Kriss-Kross) they are perceived as sell outs and "fake shits"
I haven't been reading this newsgroup for a long period of time but it seems
like most of the discussion centers around hard-core rappers. Although rap may
have started out in the hood, we don't have to limit rap music to hard core rap
pers. Rap music is becoming increasingly more diverse and rappers such Me Phi
Mee , Arrested Development, PM Dawn, as well as Marky Mark(yes, a white boy)
=have as much a right to express their versions of rap as do Public Enemy
, BDP, Ice Cube, etc. Hammer,by the way, probably has done more for
the black community than other rappers in terms of community serice and such
so consider giving him a bit more respect. Peace.
Also, I'm not black nor white, I'm Asian-Indian and a rap r & b fan. If you
see me in public, I'd be the last person who you would expect to be a rap
fan. I've been given a few stares and snickers by brothers who have seen me
in my PE t-shirt. I know that I'm an atypical rap fan but don't give
me no disrespect just because I ain't black AND like rap music.
--
********************************************************************************* - P. Ialamanna - " I think you hear me knocking, and I think I'm coming *
in, and I'm bringing my big, bad opinions with me" *
The Invisible Man
|> No I am not a racist. I just think if when you rao you should rap
|> about something that is true and from the heart. Not all this bull
|> shit that some of these rappers are throwing out.
Rap is not one particular thing. Just like there are many different types of
music, there are different types of rap. Hardcore, like Ice Cube, or OldSchool,
like the Sugarhill Gang, are two facets on the gem we call hip hop. Whether you
like or don't like Kris Kross, or Marky Mark is on you, but their styles are
forms of hip hop. Hard or soft, mainstream or strictly street level it's still
hip hop. And just because it's succesful in the mainstream doesn't make it
any less hip hop. Maybe there is a trend for artists to go "I wanna make a
crossover record" but you can see where artists like that end up, sitting on the
stoop with Vanilla Ice going "Wha' happened?".
I don't want to think that some people would start dissing Ice Cube for selling
out if the single from his next record goes to number one on the pop chart, but
some people on this group yell sellout just when that happens. I also wouldn't
want to think that some people wouldn't give a rap artist a chance because he is
not black. Prime Minister Pete Nice, Mc Serch, House of Pain, and Major Force
Posse(from Japan!) are examples of talented artists that aren't black.
Basically, there is enough room is the school of hip hop to include those
influenced by its changing sounds and styles. For the open minded who want to
listen to something different try "Blue Lines" and "Five Man Army" by Massive
Attack, "Famous and Dandy (just like Amos N Andy)" by the Disposable Heroes of
HipHoprisy and "No Kid" by Urban Dance Squad. If you don't like it, you don't
like it...but it doesn't make it not hip hop.
Let it flow,
Dan Robinson
cra...@athena.mit.edu
Charles L Isbell
hard-core, got major props in this group. Early EPMD and tons of
others as well.
Hammer gets dissed because he just can't rap. He gives an energetic
show, but he aint no MC.
I think people don't diss Kriss Kross, but the idea of 12 year old
little baby macks driving backwards and frontin' like hard is pretty
funny.
--
Peace.
"It's rural America. It's where I came from.
We always refer to ourselves as real America.
Rural America, real America, real, real, America."
-- Vice President Dan Quayle
-\--/-
Don't just adopt opinions | \/ | Some of you are homeboys
develop them. | /\ | but only I am The Homeboy From hell
-/--\-
Steven J. Sobol
>In article <1992Oct04.1...@zeus.calpoly.edu> kga...@zeus.calpoly.edu (Kang Su Gatlin) writes:
>
>>Why is it that everything
>>that's black have to be hardcore? I think our culture is a bit more diverse
>>than this.
>> -----------------> KSG
>
>I agree, Why is it that when a successful rapper does not deal with hardcore
To say Hammer or Young MC aren't real rappers because they don't rap about
crime and death and poverty, is the same as saying Springsteen isn't a real
rock artist because he doesn't play speed metal.
Open your minds...
--
Steve Sobol (IRC: RockNRoll) sjs...@tiny.com, sjs...@wariat.org
President, The Tiny Software Co. ag...@cleveland.freenet.edu
Coordinator, Unix SIG, Greater Cleve. PC User Group 23707 Glenhill Drive
Founder, Midwest Regional COHERENT User Group Cleveland, OH 44122 USA
ter...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
>Why everyone trippin' off ABC. (I do agree KK is wack cause they front a
>role). ABC does write some of their own lyrics , SpiderMan, also their just
>kids at this point and guidance could only help them later (Ala New Edition
>became the virtually self contained stars they are now, even though they
>don't write and produce most of their own stuff). If anybody would turn
>down a shot to let Biv produce em and write their stuff, but you
>yourselves got paid and got your own album you'd be a fool.
>
>TLC is another example I believe of a solid R&B group. I don't know why
>people can't understand they are different from Cube, 2Pac, PE, and the
>such. I don't hear people dissin' Guy when they dropped Groove Me or Boyz
>2 Men when they dropped Motown Philly or Bobby Brown when he drops just
>about any of his dance jams. TLC doesn't front hardcore Rap nor do they rap
>it or make any implicit jabs that they are such. Why is it that everything
>that's black have to be hardcore? I think our culture is a bit more diverse
>than this.
>
> -----------------> KSG
>
My fault. From what I read and heard, ABC didn't do any of their own lyrics.
If they do, I still don't like 'em, but more power to them. As for being
produced and having my material written by Biv himself, I say f**k the people
that get under him for the cash. That's the problem with a lot of groups today
(thanks to radio). Just in it for the cash. Artists create crap *knowing*
they will get paid. That doesn't say much for the public at large that goes
ga-ga over that type of material. I'll keep doing the stuff I feel is true and
if I get paid, fine. If I make a living, fine too, 'cause I'll feel true to
myself, and that's all that counts.
I see TLC as an R&B group with a hip hop influence. I have no qualms with
them. I think Left Eye has some lyrical talent (ever hear the hip hop version
of, 'Ain't Too Proud To Beg?' Just her rhyming). Guy was cool too, they had
some good jams to come out, as does Boyz II Men; they can definitely sing. As
for Bobby, his new material sucks and he could never rap. His last album was
slammin' though. I don't see all black's have to be hardcore, though some do
think this way. I see it as all *artists* should be true, that's how we get
original material to listen to. I like Sade, but I'm scared her new album may
not create the nice original music her past albums have; that was here appeal.
This is the age of sampling, and really, it sucks. I can't see hip hop doing
much else, I like hip hop sampling, but it is killing other music forms like
R&B.
T-Dub
SHYGUY productions
Fedde Engler
>To say Hammer or Young MC aren't real rappers because they don't rap about
>crime and death and poverty, is the same as saying Springsteen isn't a real
>rock artist because he doesn't play speed metal.
Exuse me, but this made me laugh... :) I don't think you got this right...
Fedde (fe...@bern.docs.uu.se)