A classic situation . . . .
mmmiiikkkeee_98
vilified over. The term "Classic" and how that term is defined.
I've taken heat because I believe that it requires a great deal
of knowledge regarding hip hop, and others believe that anyone
can define a "Classic". I'm going to explain why I don't believe
this is true.
When you are calling something a classic, you're saying that the
tape in question is comparable to every great tape ever produced.
If you don't have a good foundation of knowledge of what are the
great tapes in the history of hip hop, you aren't truly
knowledgable enough to judge what is a classic.
If you can't tell me at least 3-4 of the people on the Self
Destruction project, which is one of the true hip hop classics, I
don't feel that you know enough to compare a DMX tape to the all
time classics of hip hop.
To call something a classic is to compare it favorably to every
hip hop tape ever made. If you haven't listened to a great deal
of old tapes, or new tapes for that matter, you aren't qualified
to make that generalization.
There was a hell of a lot of hip hop before 1990, and a lot of it
was unstoppable. But now it's forgotten while people call "and
then there was X" a true classic.
That's my rant, flame at will.
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meenan
my only qualm here is this:
why couldn't a white suburban kid--with the kowledge you state as
requisite--have the ability to point out a classic?
I don't usually do this, but.....I'll identify myself as a white kid
(well, 22 year old kid) who has lived in suburban and (although
small) more urban areas.
I have heard a great deal of old tapes, and am very familiar with the
'self destruction' tape you cite here. IMO, you're correct, no DMX tape
has been a classic--because it gets old extremely quickly, whereas an 'all
that jazz,' or a 'just to get a rep,' or a 'eric b for president' gets
better with age, IMO.
True, I'm not from brooklyn. true, I don;t kow the black struggle first
hand. But, I've been listening to hip-hop for about 12-13 years, and feel
qualified in my classifications of what is and what is not a 'classic.'
you say some correct shit, but the wack shit (about the fubu, slang
speaking heads from the suburbs) you say, you repeat. That, in turn, will
be mistaken for your major point, when I think all you need to be saying
is: 'I love hip-hop. I think to truly be versed in the culture, and be a
qualified judge of it (at least for me to trust and respect), you must
know your history. if you don't, learn it.'
Am I mistaken here? because, that's a good point.....but some of the
other shit--while obviously the result of anger--is repetitive and boring.
peace,
meenan
"I'm trying to grow a mountain out of a foothill/ I see kids rockin my t
shirt and I'm still shoppin at goodwill."--Slug
Suspect
Not only that, meanings varies btween people/age/etc. If we used your method
for classification for a classic album.
::To call something a classic is to compare it favorably to every
hip hop tape ever made::
A: I would have to be a rich mfer' to have every hiphop tape ever made.
B: I would have to go deep in the archieves to hear all the tapes from the
80's if you was born in the 80's.
Im in part not redefinding your term of classic, but i do feel some what your
term. I do take peeps who have more hip-hop knowledge more serious than your
average hip-hop fad buyer. With that said i also take more serious peeps with
more knowledge than other peeps over matters. You wouldnt take serious a answer
to a question on how home equity works from a homeless person over a finacial
service owner. That's my 2cents///
Suspect.
Kazuya
mmmiiikkkeee_98 <mikecN...@cornetltd.com.invalid> wrote in message >
> If you can't tell me at least 3-4 of the people on the Self
> Destruction project, which is one of the true hip hop classics, I
> don't feel that you know enough to compare a DMX tape to the all
> time classics of hip hop.
>
Who in God's name are you talking about? Please don't say the Stop the
Violence Movement, it'll destroy your argument...
--
peace Kazuya
My alt.rap colum is (finally) back...
Check it out at http://www.altrap.com/thats/index.html
$Rottn Locco
>vilified over.
WARNING - intelligent discussion ahead
>When you are calling something a classic, you're saying that the
>tape in question is comparable to every great tape ever produced.
>If you don't have a good foundation of knowledge of what are the
>great tapes in the history of hip hop, you aren't truly
>knowledgable enough to judge what is a classic.
this makes sense in a way but remember that not every1 (especially here in
australia) has access to very much good hip hop. i mean, 2pac cds are
everywhere but its shit like that thats everywhere. its very rare to see
something by say common or canibus even. and i still regard the chronic as a
dead-set classic. yeah.
>If you can't tell me at least 3-4 of the people on the Self
>Destruction project, which is one of the true hip hop classics, I
>don't feel that you know enough to compare a DMX tape to the all
>time classics of hip hop.
never even heard of them, but that doesnt stop me from knowing what i like.
i still say the chronic is a classic. so is doggystyle, illmatic and 36
chambers, self-titled cypress hill was good, but not a classic. anyways
Locco
Droctane22
to shit that I like and recommend the shit that I like and if someone else
doesn't like it, so be it...It called having your own tastes in music, simple
as that...Some people can't seem to get that through their head....If someone
is feeling DMX, No-Limit, Cash Money etc fine...they like it...no need to think
you are a more "real head" cuz you don't like it...The notion of a "true"
hip-hop fan is fucking retarded...Some of these "elite" rap cats are funny to
watch when they protest about how wack a song is and then I see them tapping
there foot to the shit when they think they aren't being watched
peace..
mmmiiikkkeee_98
FUBU wearing 15 year old white boys with side ways hats (which I
saw dozens more of yesterday) from the suburbs must continue for
me, because those are the people who will be spending the most
money in the future, and the people who will attempt to be part
of a culture that doesn't belong to them.
I guess it somewhat belongs to them because they've appropriated
it for themselves, lord knows they paid for it, or at least their
parents did, but among the creators, innovators, and
practicioners of the art, they will remain on the outside looking
in. 90% of them won't care because they'll be pumping the latest
DMX CD and figuring out how they can use "yo" more often in their
speech.
Anyone, from anywhere, provided they have listened to and thought
about lots of hip hop, is qualified to judge a classic record.
The problem is, hip hop is more than just music, it's a culture.
The more in depth you are with that culture, the better able you
are to make judgements upon it. If you are living in the
suburbs, you're missing a large part of hip hop culture.
And to the cat that said fuck a classic. That's ok. You just
don't get it. Many many many real heads rock Master P, or DMX.
Where these artists lose some credibility is when the suburban
cats only rock their music, and eschew those more creative,
socially conscious, educated flows. Thus you develop a
reputation for catering to suburban white boys who aren't as
concerned with the overall message and feel as long as it makes
their hormones rage a la Kid Rock, who they all love too.
meenan
> To meenan : I agree with most of what you say. The talk about
> FUBU wearing 15 year old white boys with side ways hats (which I
> saw dozens more of yesterday) from the suburbs must continue for
> me, because those are the people who will be spending the most
> money in the future, and the people who will attempt to be part
> of a culture that doesn't belong to them.
I feel your pain....it's just that I'm a white guy from a college town--so
I see a bunch of them, but can't convince non-heads that I'm SEPARATE from
them.
>
> I guess it somewhat belongs to them because they've appropriated
> it for themselves, lord knows they paid for it, or at least their
> parents did, but among the creators, innovators, and
> practicioners of the art, they will remain on the outside looking
> in. 90% of them won't care because they'll be pumping the latest
> DMX CD and figuring out how they can use "yo" more often in their
> speech.
True.....But I don't think it belongs to them. I, like you, feel that
heads should put sometime and effort into knowing hip-hop, before it
becomes 'their culture.' I just don't think there's a race requirement
involved (from the looks of it, you don't either-really.).
You know as well as I do, paying for a culture does not make it your
own--but truly SUPPORTING the culture does--that is, you don't appropriate
it, but begin to understand.
>
> Anyone, from anywhere, provided they have listened to and thought
> about lots of hip hop, is qualified to judge a classic record.
> The problem is, hip hop is more than just music, it's a culture.
> The more in depth you are with that culture, the better able you
> are to make judgements upon it. If you are living in the
> suburbs, you're missing a large part of hip hop culture.
>
true enough.....I don't see b-boys on my block. there are a couple in
town, but whatever......one thing though...just because they're not on
your corner doesn't make them untouchable. I'm sure it used to do so,
before parts of the culture globalized.
> And to the cat that said fuck a classic. That's ok. You just
> don't get it. Many many many real heads rock Master P, or DMX.
> Where these artists lose some credibility is when the suburban
> cats only rock their music, and eschew those more creative,
> socially conscious, educated flows. Thus you develop a
> reputation for catering to suburban white boys who aren't as
> concerned with the overall message and feel as long as it makes
> their hormones rage a la Kid Rock, who they all love too.
>
When I see heads into 'just the regular hip-hop'.....I wonder. Probably
because finding this shit--being from iowa--sometimes takes work. So, I
have trouble understanding these heads that buy what Sam Goody tels them
to, and little else. But, that's my underground demon rearing it's ugly
head....
peace,
meenan
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> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
>
>
"I'm trying to grow a mountain out of a foothill/ I see kids rockin my t
A to the L
> Destruction project, which is one of the true hip hop classics, I
> don't feel that you know enough to compare a DMX tape to the all
> time classics of hip hop.
KRS, Kool Moe Dee, D-Nice, Melody, Stet, PE, Lyte (LL Cool J wrote her rhyme
for this), Doug E
Fresh, Heavy D (ill verse) um..my minds gone blank and I cant be bothered
digging out the tape.....
Big Daddy Kane was in the video but never rhymed on it....
PEACE
A to the L
Kazuya
mmmiiikkkeee_98 <mikecN...@cornetltd.com.invalid> wrote in message
> And to the cat that said fuck a classic. That's ok. You just
> don't get it. Many many many real heads rock Master P, or DMX.
> Where these artists lose some credibility is when the suburban
> cats only rock their music, and eschew those more creative,
> socially conscious, educated flows. Thus you develop a
> reputation for catering to suburban white boys who aren't as
> concerned with the overall message and feel as long as it makes
> their hormones rage a la Kid Rock, who they all love too.
>
lol... obviously, YOU don't get it. Nor would I expect someone who uses a
term like "real head". What is a "more creative, socially conscious,
educated flow"? By whose standard? Yours? You can take your "I'm more
hip-hop than you" attitude and shove it up your ass... FUCK a classic...
$Rottn Locco
nah i label shit i like heaps as classic. this aint comin from any1 else
mate. its all me. eg i listened to bacdafucup by onyx at this 2nd hand store
so i bought it for $10. i listened to it and said to myself this cd is a
fuckin classic. thats what i mean, ya?
Locco
Droctane22
>fuckin classic. thats what i mean, ya?
>
gotcha...peace..
mmmiiikkkeee_98
You obviously must be one of the young kids I'm talking about who
wears huge South Pole jeans and FUBU jerseys.
If you can't comprehend the term "true head" you haven't been
immersed deeply enough in hip hop culture. I know it's tough to
find "true heads" when all your friends are white boys living
suburban lives. The simple fact that you responded as if you
didn't know what it meant shows me how ignorant you are of the
facts.
******************
What is a
"more creative, socially conscious, educated flow"? By whose
standard? Yours?
******************
By the standards of the culture. If you can't see that Canibus,
or Tupac is more creative, educated, and socially conscious than,
say, Master P or Mystikal, you simply don't understand the
definition of those words. Any definition you want to use for
the terms : Creative, socially conscious and educated will apply
to Rakim, Guru, KRS, Black Thought, etc. It won't apply to P,
Puffy, Da Brat, Silk tha Shocker, etc.
I'm not saying that educated, socially conscious music is the
only form that's valid, I rock some Da Brat, or P, or even DMX.
I like lots of forms of hip hop music. The music that created
the culture however, and influenced me at a young age, and is the
most meaningful and inspirational, is the type I describe above
as educated, socially conscious and creative.
I'm not pressed about suburban jokers though. You don't have any
real influence on the culture, and you are a joke to those living
in the cities.
$Rottn Locco
this mornin. i reckon thatd be a classic too peace
Locco
Kazuya
mmmiiikkkeee_98 <mikecN...@cornetltd.com.invalid> wrote in message
> TO kazuya :
>
> You obviously must be one of the young kids I'm talking about who
> wears huge South Pole jeans and FUBU jerseys.
>
> If you can't comprehend the term "true head" you haven't been
> immersed deeply enough in hip hop culture. I know it's tough to
> find "true heads" when all your friends are white boys living
> suburban lives. The simple fact that you responded as if you
> didn't know what it meant shows me how ignorant you are of the
> facts.
>
LOL! You wanna trade insults with me, backpacker? You're not even worth
the breath... you need to go back to your "guns" newsgroups...
What are you, illiterate? I didn't say I didn't know what it meant. I said
it was a weak-ass, Internet term that only a dipshit like yourself would try
to come out and say (not in so many words).
Boy, I've been listenin' to this shit since you were wearin' Buster Browns
and Pro Wings. If you wanna battle, nerdy-ass backpacker style and see who
can throw out the most obscure, old-school, underground, unheard of ass
joints then step right up son, you will lose quick, fast in a hurry. I know
it taxes your underpowered brain to come up with terms like "true head" but
that shit is weak... you're trying to make yourself out to be some bad-ass
backpacker, 'cuz you can throw out a few names that maybe someone who
listens to Master P and Mase hasn't heard of. Big fuckin' deal.
So, to recap: YOU AIN'T SHIT. You don't own hip-hop. You can't stop me
from calling left, right, left a classic (lol). And it's just as valid as
you and your backpacking ass calling the Roots a classic (just an example, I
love the Roots). So put on your FUBU cap, dye your hair blond like Eminem
and roll up that pant leg son, then LET'S GET JIGGY, suburb style!
Droctane22
>this mornin. i reckon thatd be a classic too peace
Yeah that's a good one....In fact I think all go listen to that shit right
now....
peace..