"Greased rails"???
David Nebenzahl
about the 1991 toxic (metam sodium) spill into the Sacramento River at
Dunsmuir, at the Cantara Loop on what was then Southern Pacific's tracks.
One thing bugs me: the author (Matt Smith) refers to "excessively greased
rails" and says:
Not long before the spill, SP track managers were given orders from Denver
to add extra oilers--devices that squirt oil on the track to reduce friction
and prevent costly wear--despite the resulting increased risk of slippage
[no shit!].
This is a practice I've never heard of: when would a railroad EVER put
lubricant on the rails? I know locomotives are equipped with rail sanders (and
in fact Smith mentions them in his article). But "track oilers"? Can anyone
qualified to comment on this do so?
Steve Hoskins
David Nebenzahl <n...@microtech.com> wrote:
Actually, it is a VERY common practice. The rail greasers aren't supposed to
grease the TOPS of the rails, just the inside surfaces, to cut down on flange/rail
wear and accompanying noise in areas that there are a lot of curves. There is one
right on the Tehachapi Loop in the spot most people gather.
If the flange greasers are maintained properly, they won't shoot too much lube
on the rail and it isn't a problem. If something goes amiss, next thing you
know, there's lube on TOP of the rails where it will do damage.
roger traviss
: There's an interesting article in the current S.F. (San Francisco) Weekly
: about the 1991 toxic (metam sodium) spill into the Sacramento River at
: Dunsmuir, at the Cantara Loop on what was then Southern Pacific's tracks.
: One thing bugs me: the author (Matt Smith) refers to "excessively greased
: rails" and says:
: Not long before the spill, SP track managers were given orders from Denver
: to add extra oilers--devices that squirt oil on the track to reduce friction
: and prevent costly wear--despite the resulting increased risk of slippage
: [no shit!].
: This is a practice I've never heard of: when would a railroad EVER put
: lubricant on the rails? I know locomotives are equipped with rail sanders (and
: in fact Smith mentions them in his article). But "track oilers"? Can anyone
: qualified to comment on this do so?
Devices which place a "squirt" of grease on the inside of the rail are
quite common. They're used to reduce friction between the wheel
flange and the inside of the rail head on sharper curves. IIRC, they're
called "Flange Oilers".
Cheers,
Roger Traviss
From sunny Victoria, BC Canada
it_ is _me
<35D1E4EC...@microtech.com>...
> There's an interesting article in the current S.F. (San Francisco)
Weekly
> about the 1991 toxic (metam sodium) spill into the Sacramento River at
> Dunsmuir, at the Cantara Loop on what was then Southern Pacific's
tracks.
>
> One thing bugs me: the author (Matt Smith) refers to "excessively
greased
> rails" and says:
>
> Not long before the spill, SP track managers were given orders from
Denver
> to add extra oilers--devices that squirt oil on the track to reduce
friction
> and prevent costly wear--despite the resulting increased risk of
slippage
> [no shit!].
>
> This is a practice I've never heard of: when would a railroad EVER put
> lubricant on the rails? I know locomotives are equipped with rail
sanders (and
> in fact Smith mentions them in his article). But "track oilers"? Can
anyone
> qualified to comment on this do so?
At curves grease is needed to prevent premature wear of the tracks. I
think the paper calling it "excessively greased" is probably greatly
overstating the situation. I remember seeing the places that were grease
and I do not remember any that looked excessive. Some grease did get on
the bed and probably some did make it to the ground but I do not remember
seeing anything that got my notice. There are machines that apply grease
automatically but I do not remember much about them.
It really is no big deal.
>
tom dooley
jdk...@pacbell.net
the "oil" is really a very stiff black grease
John Penfold
The grease is to extent the wagon wheel life. Grease pots which
automatically pump the lubricant as the wheels pass over it, are mounted a
long way away from any gradient.
John
Greg Richardson
passing wheel, not the TREAD. Lubricating the flange will distribute grease along
the SIDE of the rail, not the TOP, thus reducing wear to the side of the BALL of
the outside rail. An "overzealous" oiler (as the one suspected of causing the
accident was labeled) can apply too much grease, thus spilling over and causing
build-up on TOP of the rail....
Steve Hoskins
"John Penfold" <jrpe...@ns-intekom.co.za> wrote:
Are they?
then why are there "grease pots" (i.e. flange oilers) right in the middle
of Tehachapi Loop? I'd certainly say that's right in the middle of a very
steep gradient.....
Matt Conrad
> The rail greasers aren't supposed to grease the TOPS of the rails, just
> the inside surfaces...
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!
I can't speak for other railroads, but the greasers I encountered during
my brief stint with Sperry Rail Service on NS greased EVERYTHING -- the
sides of the head, the top of the head, the web, the base, the tie
plates, the spikes, and a good portion of the ties. Gave me fits when
the boss would buzz me to stop and then get mad when either I couldn't
get the car to slow down, or just locked the wheels up and let her slide
to a stop. I gather that they're not SUPPOSED to grease the railhead,
but that's like saying a computer operating system (we won't name any by
name) isn't SUPPOSED to crash. :o)
Seriously, I agree that greasing rails is quite common. It usually
doesn't cause much of a problem. I really can't see a flange greaser
causing a wreck, unless the greaser itself had gotten knocked out of
alignment and a wheel caught it.
--
-Matt Conrad, jmco...@InfoAve.net - http://web.infoave.net/~jmconrad
SC RR Museum: http://www.scrm.org
Expect a train at any time on any track --
no matter how crappy the track looks!
David Nebenzahl
[...]
> Devices which place a "squirt" of grease on the inside of the rail are
> quite common. They're used to reduce friction between the wheel
> flange and the inside of the rail head on sharper curves. IIRC, they're
> called "Flange Oilers".
Thanks to all who replied to my original query in this thread.
Having confirmed that these things (flange oilers) really do exist, I'm trying
to visualize how they work. In order not to interfere with the passage of
wheel flanges, my guess is that these grease-dispensing devices (the consensus
of responses is that it is, in fact, grease and not oil which is applied) are
actually inside the rail: there must be holes inside the flange side of the
rail (on the outboard side of the curve) through which the grease is punped,
so that the flanges will pick it up as they go by.
By the way, it appears very likely that over-greasing in this case (the 1991
SP spill into the Sacramento River) did contribute to the accident. The
article quoted in my original post also refers to improper loading of the
train and over-acceleration as causes. (Several cars were jerked straight
across a curved bridge right over the river; all life in the river was killed
for about 40 miles downstream.)
John W Rosenbauer
BIG SNIP
> Seriously, I agree that greasing rails is quite common. It usually
> doesn't cause much of a problem. I really can't see a flange greaser
> causing a wreck, unless the greaser itself had gotten knocked out of
> alignment and a wheel caught it.
>
Matt,
About 7 or 8 years back I read a report about how excessive grease from
a flange lubricator could cause problems. I can't find the report now so
this is from memory. At the Peublo test facility it was demonstrated
that if excessive grease was applied to ONE rail and a locomotive
operated over the area at high load using sand, the difference in
traction between the clean rail and the greased rail caused the truck to
skew sideways. In extreme cases the truck could derail or overturn a
rail. This was more prevelant with 6 axle trucks. As I remember the
conculsions, it was recomemded that BOTH rails have lubricators.
I don't have time to try finding the report but it might be available
from the FRA web page.
Have fun,
J.W.Rosenbauer
Remove NOSPAM to reply.
Steve Hoskins
David Nebenzahl <n...@microtech.com> wrote:
>roger traviss wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> Devices which place a "squirt" of grease on the inside of the rail are
>> quite common. They're used to reduce friction between the wheel
>> flange and the inside of the rail head on sharper curves. IIRC, they're
>> called "Flange Oilers".
>
>Thanks to all who replied to my original query in this thread.
>
>Having confirmed that these things (flange oilers) really do exist, I'm trying
>to visualize how they work. In order not to interfere with the passage of
>wheel flanges, my guess is that these grease-dispensing devices (the consensus
>of responses is that it is, in fact, grease and not oil which is applied) are
>actually inside the rail: there must be holes inside the flange side of the
>rail (on the outboard side of the curve) through which the grease is punped,
>so that the flanges will pick it up as they go by.
Your assumption is on the right track. There is a pressure-plate
on the inside of the rails, which parallels the rail. When the bottom
of a flange depresses the pressure-plate, the grase is squirted onto
the inside surface of the rail, through a tube with small holes.
Daniel Wilson
> I can't speak for other railroads, but the greasers I encountered
> during
> my brief stint with Sperry Rail Service on NS greased EVERYTHING --
> the
> sides of the head, the top of the head, the web, the base, the tie
> plates, the spikes, and a good portion of the ties.
The latest thing in flange lubricators is train-mounted. A thing like a
sprung wax crayon is mounted on the main frame of a car such that when a
truck turns sufficiently on a curve the flange touches the crayon. One
flange will pick up enough lubricant to serve for several cars.
In this way the lubricators come in for maintenance in a way the
track-mounted ones don't.
____ ~ ~ ~~__
_|OO|__[]_[]__\/0 Dan dwi...@cix.compulink.co.uk
\___|_________|_|_ Wilson antispam: remove 2 if emailing
'oo "-O=O=O-" oo\
jli...@earthlink.net
>> Seriously, I agree that greasing rails is quite common. It usually
>> doesn't cause much of a problem. I really can't see a flange greaser
>> causing a wreck, unless the greaser itself had gotten knocked out of
>> alignment and a wheel caught it.
IIRC the wreck that the SP experienced near Dunsmuir some years ago
occurred on a tight turn when the wheels on one unit of a MU set of
engines started to slip significantly. When the wheels on this engine once
again started to grip the rails there was such a "tug" on the train that
some of the cars "overturned" into the inside of the curve.
Unfortunately, some of the cars that derailed fell off a bridge and
ended-up in the Sacramento River. Even more unfortunately, one or more of
these cars (I don't recall the number) carried some rather nasty stuff
that then leaked into the River and into Shasta Lake. Big time fish kill.
I don't know if grease on the rails contributed to the above but I'll bet
it did. A more significant "cause" as I recall was that the unit that did
the slipping didn't have the "modern" anti-slip technology that some other
units in the SP fleet had.
-Jim
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
jli...@earthlink.net
-----------------------------------------------------------
Bill
caused by the movement of the *flange* aginst the *side* of the railhead. The
grease is normally a fairly stiff graphite grease (which has a special affinity
for clothing, I might add .... but that is another story........).
The grease is released by a small pump which is activated by the wheel flange. The
flange hits a rectangular treadle placed on the inside of the rail, and the
treadle activates the pump which squirts a small amount of grease on to the side
of the rail.
The adjustment of the pumped quantity, and of the grease consistency, are supposed
to keep the compound on the side of the railhead. However, when the pump is
faulty, or hot weather melts the grease a bit, the grease gets everywhere (and
then some!) and the poor old M/W guys have to clean it up. Not a favoured job.
Of course, if grease is on the top of the rail, the friction is reduced, and loco
engineers begin to have trouble. However, the devices certainly reduce rail side
wear in curves, and reduce the incidence of worn flanges also.
An alternative device, seemingly not so successful (by anecdotes I have heard
anyway), is to mount a greaser on the locomotives, lubricating the flanges of the
wheels. However, this is less selective in respect of curves, and there can be
difficulty getting an adequate coverage in the really sharp curves.
Bill
Greg Richardson
of gradient.
TOM
reduce flange noise. I assume that something like this would be used in
a yard and not in place of a "greasing device" on the main line.
Any comments?
<><><>TOM<><><>
----------------
John W Rosenbauer
D&RG narrow gauge Mikes had water fed flange lubricators. There was a
sign in the cabs advising the crews to "use them".
Have fun,
J.W.Rosenbauer
Staiger
small amount or grease onto the gauge side of the rail each time a wheel
passes over it. These devices are placed on curves with a high degree of
curvature to prevent excess rail wear. contrary to popular belief these will
not cause the train to slide off of the track, it will greatly increase
stopping distances, therefore they are not placed close to signals or
station stops. If you ever have the chance to read over the timetable of a
major railroad you will see the location of track greasers noted.
David Nebenzahl wrote in message <35D1E4EC...@microtech.com>...
Edward L. Dowdy
"Daniel Wilson" wrote in message ...
Ken Maguire
transit for years. The most common situations of which I know are on
sharp curves of rapid transit lines, particularly where the line is
overhead. The practice both reduced wear on the inside edge of the
railhead of the outside rail on a curve and cut the noise down in
consideration of those living nearby.
regards
ken maguire
James Robinson
> This is a practice I've never heard of: when would a railroad EVER put
> lubricant on the rails?
There are actually four different lubricator systems that will apply
some type of lubricant to the rails, each are intended to perform a
different function:
- Wayside lubricators that are placed on the high rail approaching
sharper curves. The purpose of these lubricators is to reduce the
amount of wear on the rails in the curves and thereby extend their
life. The lubricators apply a bit of grease to the flange of each wheel
as it passes, and the train carries the grease forward spreading it on
the rail around the curve. The intent is to lubricate only the gauge
surface of the rails, but in fact the grease tends to get on pretty well
everything including the top of the rail, the ties, and the ballast.
The railroads' policies vary on how sharp the curve has to be before a
greaser is applied, it is essentially an economic decision.
- Onboard flange lubricators are installed on locomotives. The intent
of these systems is to reduce fuel consumption since trains equipped
with the system are slightly easier to pull, and to some extent to
reduce the wheel flange wear on the locomotives. These systems are not
intended to replace the wayside systems described above, as they each
perform a specific function, and are complementary. There are two
general types of these lubricators: On type squirts a very small shot of
grease onto the wheel flanges of one of the locomotive's axles every 20
revolutions or so of the wheel. The rate of application is increased to
a shot every three revolutions or so, in some designs, as the locomotive
passes through curves. While effective, these systems have proven to be
a maintenance headache, and the nozzles can get knocked out of alignment
and squirt grease where it isn't wanted, like on the tread of the
wheel. This can also happen when worn wheels are replaced with new and
the nozzles aren't properly re-aimed. The systems routinely get shut
off, perhaps by locomotive crews who feel there is additional wheel
slip, or by shop staff who forget to turn them on after maintenance, or
perhaps who don't like the mess under the locomotive.
The other type of onboard system uses a solid grease stick that applies
lubricant to the wheel flanges like stick deodorant is applied to an
underarm. The purpose of this system is the same as the onboard grease
system described above: reduced fuel consumption and reduced flange
wear. In some applications a short stick about 6 inches long is held
against the flange of a wheel by a spring-loaded arrangement, and in
others it is in the form of a long rope that is fed into the flange of
the wheel. These stick systems have not been very popular since they
don't seem particularly effective, and as well they do not handle winter
ice and slush very well.
- The third system is the hi-rail mounted lubricator. This system was
extensively used by the old CNW. They wanted the benefit of the onboard
system, but since their locomotives spent half of their time on other
railroads they wouldn't get the full benefit of the investment. They
therefore used hi-rail vehicles to apply grease to the gauge face of
rails every week or so. In this way they felt they would get the
benefit of reduced fuel consumption no matter who's locomotives were on
the train.
- Finally, there is the top of rail lubrication system. (Yes, top of
rail) This system is intended to reduce the forces that push rails apart
in curves, and to reduce wear and damage to the top of the curved
rails. Since lubrication of the top of the rails is not a good idea
under the locomotives, the system is installed on the first car of the
train for the greatest overall benefit. The small amount of grease that
is applied will have burned off under the wheels of the train, and not
appreciably affect the pulling power of the locomotives on a following
train, in theory at least. NS has been experimenting with the system
and has reported strong economic benefits. I understand CSX is also
undertaking a test program to see if they can obtain the same type of
savings.
Hubert Hall
we installed some "wayside lubricators" on the outside(high) rail of some
sharp main line curves. These were not a success since the grease combined
with grit and formed a grinding compound that increase the rail wear rather
than decrease it.
Hubert
James Robinson <NOS...@ERIE.NET> wrote in article
<35DA2C...@ERIE.NET>...
Robert J. McLain
When the rail gets rusty the flanges on the insides of the wheels tend to
climb resulting in wheels on the ground. So, not only is the idea to save
the rail and the wheels, but getting on the ground results in lost time,
drug testing and a whole lot of paperwork. Generally you will find
"oilers", which actually apply grease, about 3 or 4 car lengths before a
turn. I have never seen one on a long length of straight track.
Hope that helps
Conductor McLain