Mixed up about history
Dr. John
Possum, Ph.D." <pogo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Today LS showed her ignorance about the history of Hitler's Germany by
> complaining about an art exhibit that, according to her (as supposedly
> reported in the Wall Street Journal), presented Giuliani's remarks
> about art in a German gothic typeface, with the sound of marching
> boots played via speaker. She claimed to be offended that a parallel
> would be drawn between the holocaust and Giuliani's efforts to censor
> art.
>
> Because she is ignorant of history, she totally missed the parallel
> being drawn between Hitler's comments on so-called degenerate art
> (encompassing most of modern art up to the 1940s) and Giuliani's
> comments on the Sensation exhibit. THAT is the parallel and it is an
> appropriate and telling one. Everything that Giuliani is saying today
> about the lack of wholesomeness, aesthetic value, and instructive
> potential of certain art was said by the Nazis in their critique of
> the wide range of non-representational art. More importantly, they
> too used their power to suppress such art and to harrass the people
> creating it. This illustrated what happens when the government uses
> art to further a larger agenda.
As I have mentioned previously in this forum, from February 17-May 12,
1991, The Los Angeles County Museum of Art presented an exhibit entitled
"Entartete Kunst, Degenerate Art; The Fate of the Avant Garde in Nazi
Germany."
From the exhibition catalog, comes the following...
"We now stand in an exhibition that contains only a fraction of what was
bought with the hard-earned savings of the German people and exhibited as
art by a large number of museums all over Germany. All around us you see
the monstrous offspring of insanity, impudence, ineptitude and sheer
degeneracy. What this exhibition offers inspires horror and disgust in us
all."
With these words, on July 19, 1937, Adolph Ziegler, the President of the
Reichskammer der bildenden Künste (Reich Chamber of Visual Arts), opened
the Aussterlung "Entartete Künste", the exhibition of contemporary art art
that was intended as a pendant and contrast--"an exorcism of evil"--to the
Grosse Deutsche Kunstausstellung (Great German art exhibition) inaugurated
by Adolph Hitler on the previous day at the Haus der Deutschen Künst (House
of German Art) in Munich.
Cheers,
Dr. John
--
Pogo Possum, Ph.D.
complaining about an art exhibit that, according to her (as supposedly
reported in the Wall Street Journal), presented Giuliani's remarks
about art in a German gothic typeface, with the sound of marching
boots played via speaker. She claimed to be offended that a parallel
would be drawn between the holocaust and Giuliani's efforts to censor
art.
Because she is ignorant of history, she totally missed the parallel
being drawn between Hitler's comments on so-called degenerate art
(encompassing most of modern art up to the 1940s) and Giuliani's
comments on the Sensation exhibit. THAT is the parallel and it is an
appropriate and telling one. Everything that Giuliani is saying today
about the lack of wholesomeness, aesthetic value, and instructive
potential of certain art was said by the Nazis in their critique of
the wide range of non-representational art. More importantly, they
too used their power to suppress such art and to harrass the people
creating it. This illustrated what happens when the government uses
art to further a larger agenda.
She also told a few lies about the Sensation exhibit. Contrary to her
statements, the art was not publicly funded but consisted of works
entirely by British artists. The painting that drew the most
criticism did not consist of "elephant poop covering a picture of the
madonna," nor was it anti-Catholic (the artist is Catholic and was not
expressing any critical sentiment with his primitive-style painting of
a woman).
LS kept repeating that if such exhibits did not involve public
funding, she would have no problem with them. It would simply be a
matter of free speech. Well, this exhibit involved no public funding.
Why then has she been such a vocal critic of it? I think it is just
another lie she is telling. When art is created without public
funding, she just lies about it and pretends there is public money at
stake. But then, Hitler used to tell the Big Lie too. Another
parallel with the Nazis that she would undoubtedly find offensive.
If she truly cares about what was done in Nazi Germany, why does she
support Nazi-like behavior when it occurs in the USA? We study
history in order to avoid repeating it. She seems to feel the artist
in question was invoking the Nazi image in vain. Is LS only aware of
the atrocities committed in the camps and unaware of the ones
committed outside them?
Martha Hughes
Pogo Possum, Ph.D. <pogo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:DNgy4.6666$qa.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
>
>
Eve DuJardin
>From: "Martha Hughes" bast...@worldnet.att.net
>Date: 3/10/00 6:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
>>Pogo Possum, Ph.D. wrote<
>>Martha wrote:<
>I heard that too. It makes you want to scream, doesn't it? It sure did me.
>
I doubt that she ever cared if she was correct in her facts or not. She
assumes, and perhaps rightly so, that her listeners will believe and take
action as she instructs. She is trying to paint Guiliani with pastels and
Hillary Clinton with the tar brush. She will say anything to make him look
good, assaulted, put upon, whatever she thinks will make folks vote for him vs
Hillary.
Your faithful serpent,
Eve
dk
"Pogo Possum, Ph.D." <pogo...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:DNgy4.6666$qa.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Thanks Pogo, a very insightful post. I am continually bewildered by the
common assumption that art should not offend or challenge. For centuries (a
much more accurate statement than dl's concerning marriage) art has acted as
a social commentary and much to the concern of those in power, a type of
gadfly. Its power to expand intellectual and emotional boundaries is
unmatched and hence the reason for the conservative push for (gasp)
censorship and control.
As for her awareness about what went on outside the camps (I hate to beat an
old drum here) but she conveniently ignored the fact that inside the camps,
many homosexuals suffered the same fate as these little known ancestors that
she refers to.
Once again, I think she has waded in to waters far to deep for her
abilities. When she starts to raise the spectre of fascism and how she
understands it because her mother experienced it and the references to Nazi
Germany, the ground beneath her becomes thinner and thinner. She has an
inherent understanding of fascism from her mother who she has no contact
with and yet she'll yank her out and claim Frasier was evil for creating a
character that no one could rationally claim was based on her mother.
Lord dk
Thinking about that great song "Just a little bit of history repeating"
Martha Hughes
dk <dkin...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:rEjy4.31322$e53.1...@news20.bellglobal.com...
poker* was *cute*. This is a person we're supposed to take orders about art
from????
>
Martha Hughes
Dr. John <drj...@spam.spam.spam.concentric.net> wrote in message
news:drj2000-ya0230800...@news.concentric.net...
> In article <DNgy4.6666$qa.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Pogo
> Possum, Ph.D." <pogo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Today LS showed her ignorance about the history of Hitler's Germany by
> > complaining about an art exhibit that, according to her (as supposedly
> > reported in the Wall Street Journal), presented Giuliani's remarks
> > about art in a German gothic typeface, with the sound of marching
> > boots played via speaker. She claimed to be offended that a parallel
> > would be drawn between the holocaust and Giuliani's efforts to censor
> > art.
> >
> > Because she is ignorant of history, she totally missed the parallel
> > being drawn between Hitler's comments on so-called degenerate art
> > (encompassing most of modern art up to the 1940s) and Giuliani's
> > comments on the Sensation exhibit. THAT is the parallel and it is an
> > appropriate and telling one. Everything that Giuliani is saying today
> > about the lack of wholesomeness, aesthetic value, and instructive
> > potential of certain art was said by the Nazis in their critique of
> > the wide range of non-representational art. More importantly, they
> > too used their power to suppress such art and to harrass the people
> > creating it. This illustrated what happens when the government uses
> > art to further a larger agenda.
>
> 1991, The Los Angeles County Museum of Art presented an exhibit entitled
> "Entartete Kunst, Degenerate Art; The Fate of the Avant Garde in Nazi
> Germany."
>
> From the exhibition catalog, comes the following...
>
> "We now stand in an exhibition that contains only a fraction of what was
> bought with the hard-earned savings of the German people and exhibited as
> art by a large number of museums all over Germany. All around us you see
> the monstrous offspring of insanity, impudence, ineptitude and sheer
> degeneracy. What this exhibition offers inspires horror and disgust in us
> all."
>
> With these words, on July 19, 1937, Adolph Ziegler, the President of the
> Reichskammer der bildenden Künste (Reich Chamber of Visual Arts), opened
> the Aussterlung "Entartete Künste", the exhibition of contemporary art art
> that was intended as a pendant and contrast--"an exorcism of evil"--to
the
> Grosse Deutsche Kunstausstellung (Great German art exhibition) inaugurated
> by Adolph Hitler on the previous day at the Haus der Deutschen Künst
(House
> of German Art) in Munich.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Dr. John
>
probablyt hate. His name is Felix Tuszynski. His work is quite poignant and
meaningful. She would also probably characterize it as *tasteless*. Mr.
Tuszynski lived through the Holocaust and is an amazing artist. I'm trying
to get an interview with him as we speak.
The point is, is that she, as all of the religious wrong, are lousy judges
of Art, as they let their *moralities* poison the palett. Art must be left
to live on its own, without the coloring of religion. the religious wrong
doesn't seem to be able to do that.
> --
>
mrpotter
As I have mentioned previously in this forum, from February 17-May 12,
1991, The Los Angeles County Museum of Art presented an exhibit
entitled "Entartete Kunst, Degenerate Art; The Fate of the Avant Garde
in Nazi Germany."
From the exhibition catalog, comes the following...
"We now stand in an exhibition that contains only a fraction of what
was bought with the hard-earned savings of the German people and
exhibited as art by a large number of museums all over Germany. All
around us you see the monstrous offspring of insanity, impudence,
ineptitude and sheer degeneracy. What this exhibition offers inspires
horror and disgust in us all."
With these words, on July 19, 1937, Adolph Ziegler, the President of
the Reichskammer der bildenden Künste (Reich Chamber of Visual Arts),
opened the Aussterlung "Entartete Künste", the exhibition of
contemporary art art that was intended as a pendant and contrast--"an
exorcism of evil"--to the Grosse Deutsche Kunstausstellung (Great
German art exhibition) inaugurated by Adolph Hitler on the previous day
at the Haus der Deutschen Künst (House of German Art) in Munich.
Cheers,
Dr. John
Greg replies:
Thanks, Dr. John -- I saw this show when it was here at the Art
Institute of Chicago.
The show was a virtual re-creation of the original Munich exhibit --
the same captions, layout, etc....
(many French Impressionists, Cubists, Picasso, indigenous African art,
etc.)
IIRC, the 1937-38 exhibit was a record-breaker, with more visitors than
any other show in Germany up to that time.
It was an experience I shall never forget -- after people left the show
-- there was _total_ silence; people were too stunned even to cry....
I've done some reading on the arts policy of the Third Reich (and also
the "Socialist Realism" art policies of the former USSR and it's
satellite states).
The similarities between those failed fascistic policies and the xian -
far right wacko views on culture and arts are chilling. In the extreme.
Doktor Whora would have been right at home in the cultural milieu of
Germany c. 1938 (or the USSR c.1951).
Best
Greg
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Mitch
>toowilli...@aol.com (Eve DuJardin)
>Date: 3/10/00 10:52 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <20000310225232...@ng-de1.aol.com>
>I doubt that she ever cared if she was correct in her facts or not. She
>assumes, and perhaps rightly so, that her listeners will believe and take
>action as she instructs. She is trying to paint Guiliani with pastels and
>Hillary Clinton with the tar brush. She will say anything to make him look
>good, assaulted, put upon, whatever she thinks will make folks vote for him
>vs
>Hillary.
She has said she can't stand the First Lady on more than one occasion, and on
one occasion, as I recall, stated that she'd do anything to make sure Hilary
didn't win.
Mitch
Fred Rosenblatt
> news:DNgy4.6666$qa.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > Today LS showed her ignorance about the history of Hitler's Germany by
> > complaining about an art exhibit that, according to her (as supposedly
> > reported in the Wall Street Journal), presented Giuliani's remarks
> > about art in a German gothic typeface, with the sound of marching
> > boots played via speaker. She claimed to be offended that a parallel
> > would be drawn between the holocaust and Giuliani's efforts to censor
> > art.
> >
> > Because she is ignorant of history, she totally missed the parallel
> > being drawn between Hitler's comments on so-called degenerate art
> > (encompassing most of modern art up to the 1940s) and Giuliani's
> > comments on the Sensation exhibit. THAT is the parallel and it is an
> > appropriate and telling one.
Isn't it also true that one prong of Hitler's attack on those he wanted
to destroy was to comission art specifically intended to dehumanize them?
Not For Smoking!
<pogo...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Today LS showed her ignorance about the history of Hitler's Germany by
>complaining about an art exhibit that, according to her (as supposedly
>reported in the Wall Street Journal), presented Giuliani's remarks
>about art in a German gothic typeface, with the sound of marching
>boots played via speaker. She claimed to be offended that a parallel
>would be drawn between the holocaust and Giuliani's efforts to censor
>art.
It seems there are a lot of Professional Holocaust Jews who think they
own the Nazis, and that anyone else who mentions them is poaching.
That seems to be the general tone of the criticisms of the exhibit so
far.