curing homosexuality
Kenneth L. Clay
touted by Dr. Laura, seem to be in programs run by fundamentalist
Christian groups, should Jewish homosexuals, desirous of curing their
disease enroll in such programs? In addition to becoming "straight",
they could become good Christians, like Jerry falwell, for instance.
Ken
Speedbyrd®
Anyone who thinks that gay can become straight and vice versa, is in
need of as much help as DL. It's never happened.
Kenneth L. Clay
face with a pie. I still think it's a good question for Dr.L.
Ken
LONNIE BELL
about her cure for Homosexuality at the same time
as she is talking about buying a gun?
Speedbyrd <Spee...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:37bf743b...@news.slip.net...
> On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 12:33:34 -0700, "Kenneth L. Clay"
> <ken...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>
> >Sorry if I'm too subtle for you Speedbyrd. Next time I'll hit you in the
> >face with a pie. I still think it's a good question for Dr.L.
> >Ken
> >
> >"Speedbyrd®" wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:42:04 -0700, "Kenneth L. Clay"
> >> <ken...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Since all of the successes in converting homosexuals to heterosexuals,
> >> >touted by Dr. Laura, seem to be in programs run by fundamentalist
> >> >Christian groups, should Jewish homosexuals, desirous of curing their
> >> >disease enroll in such programs? In addition to becoming "straight",
> >> >they could become good Christians, like Jerry falwell, for instance.
> >> >Ken
> >>
> >> Anyone who thinks that gay can become straight and vice versa, is in
> >> need of as much help as DL. It's never happened.
>
>
> You'll only hit me once, little guy.
> The subject is stupid and only stupid people will discuss it, much
> less with DL!
>
> The Speedbyrd® :>
fre...@juno.com
<ken...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> Since all of the successes in converting homosexuals to heterosexuals,
> touted by Dr. Laura, seem to be in programs run by fundamentalist
> Christian groups, should Jewish homosexuals, desirous of curing their
> disease enroll in such programs? In addition to becoming "straight",
> they could become good Christians, like Jerry falwell, for instance.
> Ken
I would assume that if there were any Jews in that position*, they would
follow time honored procedure and consult a qualified Rabbi, as with any
other of life's issues.
If you're asking whether a Jew is better off being gay or becoming
Christian, well, that's a tough question :)
*As you said, "desirous of 'curing'". It is my personal opinion that a
person with conflicts between sexual and spiritual leanings has the right
to choose to favor either of the two, and live with whatever conflicts remain.
Kenneth L. Clay
reliable opinion is that people who are gay are that way from birth and not
choice. Certain groups, generally associated with fundamentalist Christian groups
claim that they can "cure" homosexuality. Dr. Laura, herself, has given voice to
this belief. Therefore, since in her belief, homosexuality can be cured by
fundamentalist Christianity and since, to my knowledge, no group within Judiaism
makes this claim, would Dr. Laura feel it was all right for a Jew to enroll in
one of the above mentioned programs to cure his homosexuality? Futhermore, I do
not think Jerry Falwell is a good Christian, or even a good human being.
K.C.
David M McCain
>
> Since all of the successes in converting homosexuals to heterosexuals,
> touted by Dr. Laura, seem to be in programs run by fundamentalist
> Christian groups, should Jewish homosexuals, desirous of curing their
> disease enroll in such programs? In addition to becoming "straight",
> they could become good Christians, like Jerry falwell, for instance.
> Ken
What Laura fails to realize is that many of those in the movement to
"cure" homosexuals also have very active missions to convert Jews to
fundamentalist Christianity. There are well developed mission
programs in the Southern Baptist Convention and the Assemblies
of God (among other denominations) whose only goal is to share the
Gospel of salvation through Jesus Christ to the Jews. These groups are
forbiden, by law, to proselytize in Israel, but they are insessant in
following the "Great Commission" throughout the rest of the world, and
especially in the United States. So-called "Messianiac Jews" are,
themselves, organized to assist in the fundamentalist Christian adjenda.
As a part of their campaign, they have a weekly radio program which is
broadcast on "Christian" stations accross the U.S. Their claim of
respect for the Jewish faith is equal to the fundamentalist's claim of
"loving the sinner, but hateing the sin..." In other words, they are
liars.
The organized adjenda of several fundamentalist denominations
includes "curing" homosexuals, and "saving" Jews. While they're at it,
they'll also "cure" you of your Catholicism or Methodism, and convert
you from being a Democrat to a God fearing, Bible believing Republican.
Kenneth L. Clay
gays who have been "saved "from their lifestyles by the programs we talked
about. No serious Pschiatrist or Psychologist feels that people convert
from homosexuality to heterosexuality. A homosexual can become celebate,
which she seems to advocate, just as a heterosexual can. I don't think she
really believes that gays are gays by choice, but she seems to have found a
convienent whipping boy. She is including more anti gay monologues in her
program.
K.C.
David M McCain
her followers, are of the ill-informed belief that homosexual is a verb.
In other words, according to her, gay people are defined first by an
action (i.e., in her words, "men humping men," homosexual "conduct", gay
"lifestyle"). She also promotes the concept that there is but one
homosexual "lifestyle" to which all gays subscribe. To hear her describe
the "objectives of the gay adjenda," one would surmise that all gays
want to "recruit" all youth, and every gay couple is determined to adopt
a baby so that it can be brought up in the "gay lifestyle," deprived of
the nurture of a "normal, loving, heterosexual family."
She would do well to consider that almost every homosexual is
the product of a "normal, loving, heterosexual family."
She might also consider that the gross generalizations she uses
in denouncing gay people are not just similar, but horrifying identical
to the characterizations used amongst some Germans against the Jews.
"Dr." Laura does not project any confidence that she would truly
be opposed to a "final solution" to, once and for all, rid the world of
homosexuals. Equally frightening is that she seems not to consider or
care that some day one or more of her more ardent followers may may take
her deriding comments as a call to arms. Like the "Christian Identity"
people who stand on the side and say "we don't advocate violence..." any
claim that she might make in disassociating herself from possible
results of her hate-filled language would be less than sincere.
--dm
Speedbyrd®
<ken...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>David, that is exactly my point. Dr. Laura reads over testimonials from
>gays who have been "saved "from their lifestyles by the programs we talked
>about. No serious Pschiatrist or Psychologist feels that people convert
>from homosexuality to heterosexuality. A homosexual can become celebate,
>which she seems to advocate, just as a heterosexual can. I don't think she
>really believes that gays are gays by choice, but she seems to have found a
>convienent whipping boy. She is including more anti gay monologues in her
>program.
>K.C.
She's probably afraid that her little darling might be a cocksucker.
That would be so grand!
Speedbyrd®
DL has some serious problems and might do well to get a mental checkup
of her own.
KD
>> She might also consider that the gross generalizations she uses
>>in denouncing gay people are not just similar, but horrifying identical
>>to the characterizations used amongst some Germans against the Jews.
>> "Dr." Laura does not project any confidence that she would truly
>>be opposed to a "final solution" to, once and for all, rid the world of
>>homosexuals.
That's wacked. DL says all the time that she favors civil rights for gays
(nondiscrimination in employment, housing, etc., that falls well short of
any "final solution"). Her real opinions are bad enough, don't make up
things she doesn't believe. What I don't like about her ideas isn't just
that they're stupid (and really, how does an educated person hold those
views) but that they're situational. Want her to do a 180? Pray that her
son is gay. She'd change her world view in two seconds.
David M McCain
> >>be opposed to a "final solution" to, once and for all, rid the world of
> >>homosexuals.
>
> That's wacked. DL says all the time that she favors civil rights for gays
> (nondiscrimination in employment, housing, etc., that falls well short of
> any "final solution").
Please note that I was not quoting "Dr." Laura. My statement was that
she "does not project any confidence"..." I know that she has never
stated this, and I am aware that she claims to support some civil
rights for gay people. But what she *says,* and how believable she is
are, I believe, two separate matters.
I stand by my statement.
[...]
> Her real opinions are bad enough, don't make up
> things she doesn't believe.
Who is to know what she believes? I don't think even she knows what she
believes. This is one of those things that make her dangerous. Her
"beliefs" can, and sometimes do, change from one hour to the next.
[...]
> Want her to do a 180? Pray that her
> son is gay.
I would rather pray that he have a long, happy, productive life.
> She'd change her world view in two seconds.
Without a doubt.
--dm
Eric Cole
David M McCain <ICh...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:37B4C2...@worldnet.att.net...
> > Want her to do a 180? Pray that her
> > son is gay.
>
> I would rather pray that he have a long, happy, productive life.
>
> > She'd change her world view in two seconds.
>
> Without a doubt.
Naw. DL only reverses her views arbitrarily. When there's a reason
for her to reverse, she defends herself by intensifying her existing
position. If she were to learn that Dare-ick were gay, she'd immediately go
ballistic, blaming it on gays (they recruited him), the APA (they sexualized
him, tried to "normalize" homosexuality), etc. It would be "more proof"
that converting innocent bunchkins into flaming degenerates is the Gay
Agenda (tm).
e.
Phinny
>
>
I hear that Howard Stern already did that, in explicit terms, on his
program.
With gay conversion groups saying that homosexuality is the result of
a childhood with an overbearing mother and a distant or absent father
it gives one faith in the power of prayer.
-=-Phineas Narco
* Online catalog: http://i.am/dapper
Subgenius, Negativland, and
assorted tapes and videos
fre...@juno.com
<ken...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> Apparantly, I was too obtuse on this one. I know as well as anyone that all
> reliable opinion is that people who are gay are that way from birth and not
> choice. Certain groups, generally associated with fundamentalist Christian
> groups claim that they can "cure" homosexuality. Dr. Laura, herself, has
> given voice to this belief. Therefore, since in her belief, homosexuality
> can be cured by fundamentalist Christianity and since, to my knowledge, no
> group within Judiaism makes this claim, would Dr. Laura feel it was all right
> for a Jew to enroll in one of the above mentioned programs to cure his
> homosexuality? Futhermore, I do not think Jerry Falwell is a good Christian,
> or even a good human being.
> K.C.
If you hang around here for a while, you will see that I am most interested
in making the point on all questions regarding Judaism that the answers
should come from sources more qualified than the average Jew (and all the more
so Christian) on the street, which group includes both me and DL. So while
I answered your question below, I don't have abn answer for the question
"What would she say .." except that it should be to direct the calller
to a qualified Rabbi, or at the very least take the time to become
knowledgeable about the Rabbinic position.
I still think that, "gay from birth" or not, a person has the right to
make whichever sacrifices in life appear to them to be proper.
> fre...@juno.com wrote:
>
> > In article <37B2F95C...@lightspeed.net>, "Kenneth L. Clay"
> > <ken...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> >
> > > Since all of the successes in converting homosexuals to heterosexuals,
> > > touted by Dr. Laura, seem to be in programs run by fundamentalist
> > > Christian groups, should Jewish homosexuals, desirous of curing their
> > > disease enroll in such programs? In addition to becoming "straight",
> > > they could become good Christians, like Jerry falwell, for instance.
> > > Ken
> >