Is Dominator/Predetor(~6dB gain) competent to CP antennas for LPFM?
Bhuvan
I have been researching for a long time to know weather there is a
cost effective alternative to the costly CP antenna bay for my low
budget LPFM station. And interestingly I have found the one called
Dominator/Predetor (with true ~6dB gain).
1. Norwalk Electronics' Dominator® FM broadcast antenna (http://
fmbroadcastantenna.com/)
2. HIGH GAIN COLINEAR ALUMINUM Wave PREDATOR (http://www.pcs-
electronics.com/wave-predator-antenna-p-1096.html)
At a the budget of $300 the best high gain antenna I could find are
these. And so I have decided to purchase any one of these two. Though
I am still in doubt weather the high gain (nearly 6db not 6dBi) is a
hipe.
I am looking for some comment on it if some of you have come accross
these antennas.
Regards,
Bhuvan
Bob
> 2. HIGH GAIN COLINEAR ALUMINUM Wave PREDATOR (http://www.pcs-
> electronics.com/wave-predator-antenna-p-1096.html)
/"Shunt/ /feed/ /the/ /isotropic/ /radiator"/ - obvious marketing nonsense,
or they don't know what on earth they're talking about. If
they're /really/ this clueless, don't buy. it's supposed to be a 3/4
wavelength "Colinear" antenna. It can't be. The dimensions are all wrong.
There is *no* *way* that it has 6 dB gain over anything (except a piece of
wet string!). It's simply a j-pole with a circularly distributed lower
part of the J - it makes it look better, but will actually degrade
performance over a simple J.
> At a the budget of $300 the best high gain antenna I could find are
> these. And so I have decided to purchase any one of these two. Though
> I am still in doubt weather the high gain (nearly 6db not 6dBi) is a
> hipe.
It is *not* as advertised! You will be wasting your money. It will be no
better than a simple dipole.
You can easily construct a stacked dipole array for $40 or less, and get
truly useful gain. If you spend $90 you can build a 4-stack, which will
give you serious gain, and if matched properly will give an excellent
radiation pattern.
Don't get ripped off by these silly claims of "high gain" antennas. They
simply don't work. get a copy of the ARRL Antenna Book and look at the
stacked dipole arrays, the slot co-linears and the super-j. Any of these
designs will give you omnidirectional coverage and useful gain.
Bob
Boomer
"Bhuvan" <bhuva...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1172316442.5...@m58g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Regards,
Bhuvan
You can find a similar antenna for $245 on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=002&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=120080711531&rd=1&rd=1
I don't know how good of an antenna that is. For a cheaper antenna that
same site offers the Comet antenna. It ain't bad.
Boomer
"Bob" <bias...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:DxXDh.6616$I46....@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
I doubt that many of us have the skills or tools to build our own antennas.
Bob
> I doubt that many of us have the skills or tools to build our own
> antennas.
It's really easy! You're going to need basic soldering skills, some hand
tools, a low power transmitter on your frequency of choice, an SWR bridge,
a length of 50 ohm coax and a few materials that you can buy in any
hardware store.
Take a look at: http://www.irational.org/sic/radio/omni-aerial.html for one
design that is /much/ /more/ effective than a simple dipole or a "Comet",
and is really easy to build.
http://www.johncath.force9.co.uk/folded%20dipol-1.htm has the wrong name for
the type of antenna described (it's actually a colinear) but it's really
easy to scale the 2m version for 3m.
http://web.telia.com/~u85920178/antennas/6dbvhf0.htm is another simple
colinear design. You're going to have to do some simple mathematics to
scale it to your frequency of choice, but it can be easily built
by /anyone/ in an hour or two.
Building effective antennas is easy. Use good quality coax, make good
soldered connections and spend a little time getting the match just right,
and you'll get an antenna that outperforms those $300 rip-offs for $20 -
$30.
Get your antenna as high as possible and at least 3m (10ft) from the
supporting structure - ideally 6m away (2 wavelengths).
Don't get ripped off by those antenna manufacturers claiming "6dB gain" - 6
dB over what? Any piece of random length of wire can show 20 dB better
radiation than a dummy load!
Bob
Leigh
> I doubt that many of us have the skills or tools to build our own antennas.
Totally no excuse - if you have the skills to put a station together and
an antenna in place, you can easily make a 2 stack dipole by simply
purchasing two FM dipolesm, a T-piece, plugs and coax.
Nothing much to matching it beyond using a SWR meter and ruler to make
sure all cables are an indentical length between each antenna and the
T-piece.
As Bob says, you will get serious gain from a 4 stack but a 2 stack is a
start and is a no-brainer to assemble. I use a 2-stack for UHF
communications and it's an ideal simple antenna.
Leigh.....
(Greeting Bias - see we old 'radio technology' fans are still about!)
Jay
for a little more but its still better then the one I was using.
Nomen Lapetos
"Boomer" <Boome...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:Zf2Eh.1483$MV7...@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
it is very easy, just pipe or wire bolted together at FM frequencies.
There is a free computer program on the internet called EZNEC at
http://www.eznec.com/
The real problem is keeping the radiation from going up off the ground. Very
hard to keep it on the ground at distance.
Ed
> Boomer wrote:
>
>> I doubt that many of us have the skills or tools to build our own
>> antennas.
>
> It's really easy! You're going to need basic soldering skills, some hand
> tools, a low power transmitter on your frequency of choice, an SWR bridge,
> a length of 50 ohm coax and a few materials that you can buy in any
> hardware store.
>
> Take a look at: http://www.irational.org/sic/radio/omni-aerial.html for
> one
> design that is /much/ /more/ effective than a simple dipole or a "Comet",
> and is really easy to build.
>
Making these out of copper pipe works really well. Much more sturdy than the
design in that pic. I experimented with these for a while, and they worked
very well, cheap about £6 of copper, and took about 15 minutes to make. A
definate improvment over a dipole.
Bob
>> Take a look at: http://www.irational.org/sic/radio/omni-aerial.html for
>> one
>> design that is /much/ /more/ effective than a simple dipole or a "Comet",
>> and is really easy to build.
>>
>
> Making these out of copper pipe works really well. Much more sturdy than
> the design in that pic. I experimented with these for a while, and they
> worked very well, cheap about £6 of copper, and took about 15 minutes to
> make. A definate improvment over a dipole.
You can't beat the design as drawn, though. The materials can cost <£3, and
the results are good enough for a throwaway aerial!
My favourite home-build is the single slot co-linear. You get just under 6
dB over a dipole, and the radiation pattern is nicely flat. A minor but
very effective variant of that antenna is the end-fed version with ground
planes - if you put it up a block, it confuses the hell out of anyone
trying to track it, as the signal strength /below/ the site is really weak!
Bob
Ed
> Ed wrote:
>
>>> Take a look at: http://www.irational.org/sic/radio/omni-aerial.html for
>>> one
>>> design that is /much/ /more/ effective than a simple dipole or a
>>> "Comet",
>>> and is really easy to build.
>>>
>>
>> Making these out of copper pipe works really well. Much more sturdy than
>> the design in that pic. I experimented with these for a while, and they
>> worked very well, cheap about £6 of copper, and took about 15 minutes to
>> make. A definate improvment over a dipole.
>
> You can't beat the design as drawn, though. The materials can cost <£3,
> and
> the results are good enough for a throwaway aerial!
True except that I found PVC pipework was far too flimsy. A fibreglass pole
would be much better.
> My favourite home-build is the single slot co-linear. You get just under
> 6
> dB over a dipole, and the radiation pattern is nicely flat. A minor but
> very effective variant of that antenna is the end-fed version with ground
> planes - if you put it up a block, it confuses the hell out of anyone
> trying to track it, as the signal strength /below/ the site is really
> weak!
>
> Bob
>
Thats one design I have never attempted. For no real reason either. I do
alot of RSL's these days which really don't allow for any creativity at all,
kind of miss the old days haha.
Steve Leyland
. I do alot of RSL's these days which really don't allow for any
: creativity at all, kind of miss the old days haha.
then please don't support the RSLs, they are merely a way to raise revenue
for the treasury.
the electromagnetic airwaves are a naturally occurring phenomenom, and
cannot be owned by any government authority, therefore they are NOT FOR
SALE!
how anyone can expect a station on micro power for 28 days every 6 months
to gain an audience beats me considering the restrictions. in fact it was
one of these RSL stations that got me raided with the old "stealing
listeners" whine. of course they'd paid the thousands of wonga, so despite
the fact that they honestly were so bad they had no listeners for me to
steal, ofcom smashed down my door.
where is the encouragement for pirates to become legal when it costs so
much for such a lame TSA? why can't experienced operators run stations
without needing financial backers and advertisers? my rig was thoroughly
tested and proved to be free of spurious emissions before I even switched
it on. the frequency was clear and well away from any other stations. I'm a
responsible pirate and despite ofcom's best efforts to discredit us, I'm
not an armed drug dealer either, just a music fan with over 25 years of
(illegal) radio experience.
sadly I fear in the current climate where licenses go to the highest bidder
the trend of radio listening will decrease as all stations are catering to
the lowest common denominator audience to attract advertisers. look at the
takeovers of the smaller stations by the big media groups, then the sacking
of local presenters and the networking. tune around and they all sound the
same. no wonder the ipod generation isn't tuning in, is it?
radio needs to be more about entertainment and diversity for the listeners
than about raising profit.
thanks for reading this rant.
--
Steve Leyland
======================================================================
"I went to the Garden of Love, And saw what I never had seen;
A Chapel was built in the midst,
Where I used to play on the green.
And the gates of this Chapel were shut
And "Thou shalt not," writ over the door;
So I turned to the Garden of Love
That so many sweet flowers bore.
And I saw it was filled with graves,
And tombstones where flowers should be;
And priests in black gowns were walking their rounds,
And binding with briars my joys and desires."
William Blake.
Ed
"Steve Leyland" <steveREMOVEDOT...@meow.org.invalid> wrote in
message news:esimtc$767$1...@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
> Ed wrote:
> . I do alot of RSL's these days which really don't allow for any
> : creativity at all, kind of miss the old days haha.
>
> then please don't support the RSLs, they are merely a way to raise revenue
> for the treasury.
> the electromagnetic airwaves are a naturally occurring phenomenom, and
> cannot be owned by any government authority, therefore they are NOT FOR
> SALE!
Not going to get into a political debate. I do them usually for less days
than that as event radio.
> how anyone can expect a station on micro power for 28 days every 6 months
> to gain an audience beats me considering the restrictions. in fact it was
> one of these RSL stations that got me raided with the old "stealing
> listeners" whine. of course they'd paid the thousands of wonga, so despite
> the fact that they honestly were so bad they had no listeners for me to
> steal, ofcom smashed down my door.
Having done pirate previously (gave up in mid 90s), I dont believe its
reasonable regardless of quality of output that a pirate has any right to
cause problems for a licenced station regardles of their size or status etc.
If you were aware there was an RSL on your frequency, and you were cauing
problems to them, my view is you should have stopped.
> where is the encouragement for pirates to become legal when it costs so
> much for such a lame TSA?
Regardles of costs (and presumable your London based probably south) there
is not the space anyway. The FM band has no space for all these extra
services anyway.
> why can't experienced operators run stations
> without needing financial backers and advertisers?
As much as they are there to provide music they are just as interested in
making money. From a professional standpoint. it takes a tremndous amount of
manpower to run a full time radio station from accountants to dj's producers
and engineers. This has to be paid for somehow.
> my rig was thoroughly
> tested and proved to be free of spurious emissions before I even switched
> it on. the frequency was clear and well away from any other stations.
Was it within 200khz of an RSL?
> I'm a
> responsible pirate and despite ofcom's best efforts to discredit us, I'm
> not an armed drug dealer either, just a music fan with over 25 years of
> (illegal) radio experience.
Glad to hear that!
> sadly I fear in the current climate where licenses go to the highest
> bidder
> the trend of radio listening will decrease as all stations are catering to
> the lowest common denominator audience to attract advertisers.
Hasn't it always been this way? (although its mostly large groups)
> look at the
> takeovers of the smaller stations by the big media groups, then the
> sacking
> of local presenters and the networking. tune around and they all sound the
> same. no wonder the ipod generation isn't tuning in, is it?
Ahh now this I really do agree with. Its madness. Some almost gone for total
automation. That I really do not understand. And I agree like you, it should
stop.
> radio needs to be more about entertainment and diversity for the listeners
> than about raising profit.
>
> thanks for reading this rant.
>
No problem
Steve Leyland
: "Steve Leyland" <steveREMOVEDOT...@meow.org.invalid> wrote
: in message news:esimtc$767$1...@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
:: Ed wrote:
:: . I do alot of RSL's these days which really don't allow for any
::: creativity at all, kind of miss the old days haha.
::
:: then please don't support the RSLs, they are merely a way to raise
:: revenue for the treasury.
:: the electromagnetic airwaves are a naturally occurring phenomenom,
:: and cannot be owned by any government authority, therefore they are
:: NOT FOR SALE!
:
: Not going to get into a political debate.
aww man, that's a huge shame, I do so enjoy discussing the unfair sale of
the people's airwaves for governmental greed... and to think I thought the
tories were bad for selling everything off back in maggie thatcher's day...
hey mate. it's usenet, one of the last bastions of freedom of speech; you
can discuss almost anything here!
: I do them usually for less
: days than that as event radio.
sheesh, surely for just a few days you could easily get away with running a
pirate rig for much less cash?
:
:: how anyone can expect a station on micro power for 28 days every 6
:: months to gain an audience beats me considering the restrictions. in
:: fact it was one of these RSL stations that got me raided with the
:: old "stealing listeners" whine. of course they'd paid the thousands
:: of wonga, so despite the fact that they honestly were so bad they
:: had no listeners for me to steal, ofcom smashed down my door.
:
: Having done pirate previously (gave up in mid 90s), I dont believe its
: reasonable regardless of quality of output that a pirate has any
: right to cause problems for a licenced station regardles of their
: size or status etc. If you were aware there was an RSL on your
: frequency, and you were cauing problems to them, my view is you
: should have stopped.
I totally agree. however the RSL in question was on 88.7 and I was on 99.7
and was at least 5 miles away from their TX location.
certainly there were NO interference problems. believe me I always make
~very~ sure of that.
had they even bothered to contact me and said "we've got an issue with you
stealing our listeners" I'd certainly have switched off my rig for a while
in preference to them complaining to ofcom.
this particular RSL has since complained about another local pirate and got
them raided too.
my mind boggles as to how a pirate can be accused of "stealing" a listener.
don't the listeners have a free choice of where to move their tuning dial?
this complaining station has been given a 5 year licence and a huge grant
of cash from the local council as they pretend to be teaching people to
become broadcasters. however the last few RSLs I've listened to there are
always the same extremely poor presenters and clearly no training from
anyone who has the slightest clue about radio.
:
:: where is the encouragement for pirates to become legal when it costs
:: so much for such a lame TSA?
:
: Regardles of costs (and presumable your London based probably south)
: there is not the space anyway. The FM band has no space for all these
: extra services anyway.
I'm in the merseyside area. admittedly there's not much space up here
either what with all these cloned top 40 always playing the same shite
stations owned by big media groups, but if the BBC was to take a few less
frequencies there'd be plenty of room for minority interest stations.
they really do seem to hog the lower end of the FM band locally.
:
:: why can't experienced operators run stations
:: without needing financial backers and advertisers?
:
: As much as they are there to provide music they are just as
: interested in making money. From a professional standpoint. it takes
: a tremndous amount of manpower to run a full time radio station from
: accountants to dj's producers and engineers. This has to be paid for
: somehow.
noted, but from a pirate's standpoint with volunteer DJs who support free
radio *if* I was hypothetically able to run without risk of a raid from
ofcom like I did during the 1980s, it is pretty much self-funding with DJs
donating their time and money for equipment. clearly losing a rig in a raid
every few weeks these days defeats this. No aircraft ever fell from the
sky, no ambulances or fire engines were bothered by any of my illegal
broadcasts, just a sackload of listener response which shows that there is
a need for alternative radio.
:
:: my rig was thoroughly
:: tested and proved to be free of spurious emissions before I even
:: switched it on. the frequency was clear and well away from any other
:: stations.
:
: Was it within 200khz of an RSL?
certainly not! it was not within 400khz of any stations with a TSA for this
area on either side.
please do note that I'm a responsible pirate.
:
:: I'm a
:: responsible pirate and despite ofcom's best efforts to discredit us,
:: I'm not an armed drug dealer either, just a music fan with over 25
:: years of (illegal) radio experience.
:
: Glad to hear that!
don't believe the hype, some of the scare stories to justify the oppression
against free radio absolutely take the piss. when I was in court after the
raid, the ofcom prosecutor actually stated that I was "broadcasting on the
same band as the emergency services". I can only assume his script was from
the old pye westminster days!
of course when asked for proof of this from ofcom, none was forthcoming.
I had of course had the TX checked thoroughly for spurious emmissions
before installation on a professional spectrum analyser.
:
:: sadly I fear in the current climate where licenses go to the highest
:: bidder
:: the trend of radio listening will decrease as all stations are
:: catering to the lowest common denominator audience to attract
:: advertisers.
:
: Hasn't it always been this way? (although its mostly large groups)
ermm, not when I grew up with radio caroline, they played great album
tracks but then ran out of money. hmmm, perhaps you have a point there, but
I loved listening and I'm sure many others would but it seems we are out of
the advertiser's demographics now.
:
:: look at the
:: takeovers of the smaller stations by the big media groups, then the
:: sacking
:: of local presenters and the networking. tune around and they all
:: sound the same. no wonder the ipod generation isn't tuning in, is it?
:
: Ahh now this I really do agree with. Its madness. Some almost gone
: for total automation. That I really do not understand. And I agree
: like you, it should stop.
The way radio is going, soon nobody will be listening, the corporate greed
of the radio groups is killing it.
Even if they can get someone by paying minimum wage, why not have a local
DJ there?
I'd offer, but I'm BANNED for 5 years from legal radio for playing good
music without paying so I'm oh so discouraged to cease my piratical
activities ;)
:
:: radio needs to be more about entertainment and diversity for the
:: listeners than about raising profit.
::
:: thanks for reading this rant.
::
:
: No problem
73s.
--
Steve Leyland
mhm32x16 Smeeter#24 WSD#41
Alcatroll Labs Inc (bongwater maintenance dept)
=^MEOW MEOW ARMY^=
'Veni, Vidi, Velcro' - I came, I saw, I stuck around.
======================================================================
"Warning to all:
Steve Leyland is a trolling twat of the highest order. Killfile the
muppet now and move on. Even the briefest of searches on his past
UseNet posts will reveal the truth. You have been warned. *plonk*"
bear, uk.rec.motorcycles
======================================================================
"This sig is an abomination of all that is good and right about usenet.
Do the entire world a favor and REMOVE YOURSELF FROM USENET ALTOGETHER,
DUMBASS." miguel, soc.singles
======================================================================
"must you include your 75847548574893579345 gigabyte sig file in every
fucking post? You're very annoying." projectile vomit chick,
alt.music.ozzy
======================================================================
"I went to the Garden of Love, And saw what I never had seen;
A Chapel was built in the midst,
Where I used to play on the green.
And the gates of this Chapel were shut
And "Thou shalt not," writ over the door;
So I turned to the Garden of Love
That so many sweet flowers bore.
And I saw it was filled with graves,
And tombstones where flowers should be;
And priests in black gowns were walking their rounds,
And binding with briars my joys and desires."
William Blake.
======================================================================
"When the Earth has been ravaged and the animals are dying, a tribe of
people from all races, creeds and colours shall put their faith in
deeds, not words, and make the land green again. They shall be known as
Warriors of the Rainbow, protectors of the environment."
Native American prophecy
|\ _.-'~~""'~`'~)
/, ~-,__,,,.'~ ,-;;--''
|,4) ./ ' ; ;/'
'-~~;'@ ( ; ;
_.--'' _.-_..' .;.'
(,_..----''' (,..--''
Meow
Bob
> aww man, that's a huge shame, I do so enjoy discussing the unfair sale of
> the people's airwaves for governmental greed... and to think I thought the
> tories were bad for selling everything off back in maggie thatcher's
> day...
Those were (in many ways) the best days for land-based pirate radio! The
government hadn't woken up to the fact that they could make silly amounts
of money by selling off chunks of the radio spectrum, and as long as we
didn't cause interference, we were left alone for long periods.
Components were cheap, and the second generation of RF power transistors
made city-covering power easily and cheaply available. Band II was fairly
clear, and finding a suitable frequency was easy.
> :: how anyone can expect a station on micro power for 28 days every 6
> :: months to gain an audience beats me considering the restrictions. in
> :: fact it was one of these RSL stations that got me raided with the
> :: old "stealing listeners" whine. of course they'd paid the thousands
> :: of wonga, so despite the fact that they honestly were so bad they
> :: had no listeners for me to steal, ofcom smashed down my door.
A common story. Most of the RSLs I've heard have been of the sub-hospital
radio class, and simply weren't worth the airspace! They are filled with
clueless radio wannabees who stump up stupid amounts of money for their
"big chance". They discover that 25 Watts at 10 metres just about gets to
the end of the street in a city, so complain that they're suffering from
"interference". I've got some "disposable" 50 Watt rigs in the attic - it
might be fun to /really/ piss off a few RSLs - white noise mod on "their"
frequency should do it. The clueless Ofcom won't understand the problem...
> I totally agree. however the RSL in question was on 88.7 and I was on 99.7
> and was at least 5 miles away from their TX location.
> certainly there were NO interference problems. believe me I always make
> ~very~ sure of that.
> had they even bothered to contact me and said "we've got an issue with you
> stealing our listeners" I'd certainly have switched off my rig for a while
> in preference to them complaining to ofcom.
Why? If they aren't good enough to compete, that's /their/ problem, not
yours!
> this particular RSL has since complained about another local pirate and
> got them raided too.
Persistent whiners, eh? /Deal/ with them!
> my mind boggles as to how a pirate can be accused of "stealing" a
> listener. don't the listeners have a free choice of where to move their
> tuning dial?
At the moment, yes. Soon, with the migration to DAB, there will only be a
government prescribed range of big broadcasters.
> this complaining station has been given a 5 year licence and
> a huge grant of cash from the local council as they pretend to be teaching
> people to become broadcasters. however the last few RSLs I've listened to
> there are always the same extremely poor presenters and clearly no
> training from anyone who has the slightest clue about radio.
This can easily be demonstrated, and you /can/ get their grants removed and
their licence rescinded - get friends to sign up for their "broadcasting
courses", and see if there really are spaces available. When they're
"booked up" that's your first clue that it's bogus.
Record some of their output off air, and use it to demonstrate that they're
not of sufficient standard to broadcast.
Get Ofcom to demand their loggings and their performing rights payment
details.
Set the Musician's Union loose on them - explain that they're Performing
Rights payments are wrong: the MU will give them hell!
> :: where is the encouragement for pirates to become legal when it costs
> :: so much for such a lame TSA?
*That* was the point! It was an effort to show that "real" radio
costs /huge/ amounts to run, and that it's best done by the big media
combines.
> I'm in the merseyside area. admittedly there's not much space up here
> either what with all these cloned top 40 always playing the same shite
> stations owned by big media groups, but if the BBC was to take a few less
> frequencies there'd be plenty of room for minority interest stations.
> they really do seem to hog the lower end of the FM band locally.
The BBC always has. With proper engineering, each of their national
services could occupy as little as 500 kHz - re-engineered like the German
national networks. RDS also wouldn't have been necessary!
> :: why can't experienced operators run stations
> :: without needing financial backers and advertisers?
Because there's no money in it for the "Vested interests" and the government
wouldn't have control of output. The idea of a widely heard station
actually broadcasting some /real/ news, and not toeing the government line
scares them sh*tless. Have you noticed how any /truly/ outspoken
broadcaster seldom lasts long?
> : As much as they are there to provide music they are just as
> : interested in making money. From a professional standpoint. it takes
> : a tremndous amount of manpower to run a full time radio station from
> : accountants to dj's producers and engineers. This has to be paid for
> : somehow.
I've run a commercial, regional station (abroad) with a staff of 19. We
were the most successful station in the country, and made *huge* amounts of
money! I still get a monthly cheque from them../
> noted, but from a pirate's standpoint with volunteer DJs who support free
> radio *if* I was hypothetically able to run without risk of a raid from
> ofcom like I did during the 1980s, it is pretty much self-funding with DJs
> donating their time and money for equipment. clearly losing a rig in a
> raid every few weeks these days defeats this. No aircraft ever fell from
> the sky, no ambulances or fire engines were bothered by any of my illegal
> broadcasts, just a sackload of listener response which shows that there is
> a need for alternative radio.
Yes. We all know the story. But the "government" can't allow unregulated
broadcasting - the idea of outspoken radio /really/ scares them.
> :: my rig was thoroughly
> :: tested and proved to be free of spurious emissions before I even
> :: switched it on. the frequency was clear and well away from any other
> :: stations.
> :
> : Was it within 200khz of an RSL?
>
> certainly not! it was not within 400khz of any stations with a TSA for
> this area on either side.
> please do note that I'm a responsible pirate.
I know the old old story! They'll still raid you, though. It just takes a
couple of complaints.
> :
> :: I'm a
> :: responsible pirate and despite ofcom's best efforts to discredit us,
> :: I'm not an armed drug dealer either, just a music fan with over 25
> :: years of (illegal) radio experience.
> :
> : Glad to hear that!
>
> don't believe the hype, some of the scare stories to justify the
> oppression against free radio absolutely take the piss. when I was in
> court after the raid, the ofcom prosecutor actually stated that I was
> "broadcasting on the same band as the emergency services". I can only
> assume his script was from the old pye westminster days!
They /still/ don't have any clue, and their "inspectors" are useless. It's
trivial to hide rigs from them - if you want details, e-mail me.
> of course when asked for proof of this from ofcom, none was forthcoming.
> I had of course had the TX checked thoroughly for spurious emmissions
> before installation on a professional spectrum analyser.
That's what I've /always/ done, but they still try to maintain that the gear
is "causing interference".
> :: sadly I fear in the current climate where licenses go to the highest
> :: bidder
> :: the trend of radio listening will decrease as all stations are
> :: catering to the lowest common denominator audience to attract
> :: advertisers.
> :
> : Hasn't it always been this way? (although its mostly large groups)
Radio listening is dieing out. Listeners don't want the endlessly repeated
"Top 40" rubbish with incessant advertisements that is the staple of the
majority of commercial radio. The /only/ stations maintaining and audience
are BBC Radio 4 and Radio 5 - the rest are declining.
> ermm, not when I grew up with radio caroline, they played great album
> tracks but then ran out of money. hmmm, perhaps you have a point there,
> but I loved listening and I'm sure many others would but it seems we are
> out of the advertiser's demographics now.
Actually, we're not. Statistically, we have the greatest spending power, so
the advertisers would /love/ to be able to get access to us.
> :: look at the
> :: takeovers of the smaller stations by the big media groups, then the
> :: sacking
> :: of local presenters and the networking. tune around and they all
> :: sound the same. no wonder the ipod generation isn't tuning in, is it?
No wonder at all.
> : Ahh now this I really do agree with. Its madness. Some almost gone
> : for total automation. That I really do not understand. And I agree
> : like you, it should stop.
>
> The way radio is going, soon nobody will be listening, the corporate greed
> of the radio groups is killing it.
> Even if they can get someone by paying minimum wage, why not have a local
> DJ there?
> I'd offer, but I'm BANNED for 5 years from legal radio for playing good
> music without paying so I'm oh so discouraged to cease my piratical
> activities ;)
> :
> :: radio needs to be more about entertainment and diversity for the
> :: listeners than about raising profit.
>
>
> ::
> :: thanks for reading this rant.
> ::
> :
> : No problem
Likewise!
Bob
Steve Leyland
: Steve Leyland wrote:
:
:: aww man, that's a huge shame, I do so enjoy discussing the unfair
:: sale of the people's airwaves for governmental greed... and to think
:: I thought the tories were bad for selling everything off back in
:: maggie thatcher's day...
:
: Those were (in many ways) the best days for land-based pirate radio!
: The government hadn't woken up to the fact that they could make silly
: amounts of money by selling off chunks of the radio spectrum, and as
: long as we didn't cause interference, we were left alone for long
: periods.
that's very true, I was visited by ron bird and gordon yates in the 80s,
true gentlemen who knocked politely on the door, asked to come in and were
equally as politely denied access. so they went away. I turned the rig off
for an hour then put it back on. how unlike eric's visits in the 90s!
:
: Components were cheap, and the second generation of RF power
: transistors made city-covering power easily and cheaply available.
: Band II was fairly clear, and finding a suitable frequency was easy.
back then I was still on AM with trusty old 807 valves. from a block we
covered most of the north west of england on caroline's old 963khz
frequency with a 6 valve anode mod rig.
:
:::: how anyone can expect a station on micro power for 28 days every 6
:::: months to gain an audience beats me considering the restrictions.
:::: in fact it was one of these RSL stations that got me raided with
:::: the old "stealing listeners" whine. of course they'd paid the
:::: thousands of wonga, so despite the fact that they honestly were so
:::: bad they had no listeners for me to steal, ofcom smashed down my
:::: door.
:
: A common story. Most of the RSLs I've heard have been of the
: sub-hospital radio class, and simply weren't worth the airspace!
: They are filled with clueless radio wannabees who stump up stupid
: amounts of money for their "big chance". They discover that 25 Watts
: at 10 metres just about gets to the end of the street in a city, so
: complain that they're suffering from "interference". I've got some
: "disposable" 50 Watt rigs in the attic - it might be fun to /really/
: piss off a few RSLs - white noise mod on "their" frequency should do
: it. The clueless Ofcom won't understand the problem...
mheh, that would be evil. I don't think it'll be needed, these stations are
broadcasting to their families and a few mates, they'll be gone soon. oh
man, I wish I'd recorded the religious one who severely fucked up their
link, they were over-deviating severely for a week. but they'd paid ofcom
so it was all ok, right?
:
:: I totally agree. however the RSL in question was on 88.7 and I was
:: on 99.7 and was at least 5 miles away from their TX location.
:: certainly there were NO interference problems. believe me I always
:: make ~very~ sure of that.
:: had they even bothered to contact me and said "we've got an issue
:: with you stealing our listeners" I'd certainly have switched off my
:: rig for a while in preference to them complaining to ofcom.
:
: Why? If they aren't good enough to compete, that's /their/ problem,
: not yours!
that's exactly what I said to the ofcom bloke in the court corridor and he
agreed.
I think he actually enjoyed listening to my station!
:
:: this particular RSL has since complained about another local pirate
:: and got them raided too.
:
: Persistent whiners, eh? /Deal/ with them!
how?
these rsl heads won't talk to pirates.
:
:: my mind boggles as to how a pirate can be accused of "stealing" a
:: listener. don't the listeners have a free choice of where to move
:: their tuning dial?
:
: At the moment, yes. Soon, with the migration to DAB, there will only
: be a government prescribed range of big broadcasters.
DAB is crap, I tuned into one round at a mate's house a few weeks ago, I
switched it on and every station was affected by some sorta burbling
underwater noise. he claimed it was normal and I needed to move the radio
around, but I turned it off.
:
:: this complaining station has been given a 5 year licence and
--
Steve Leyland
mhm32x16 Smeeter#24 WSD#41
Alcatroll Labs Inc (bongwater maintenance dept)
=^MEOW MEOW ARMY^=
Every great and commanding movement in the annals of the world is the
triumph of enthusiasm. Nothing great was ever achieved without it. -
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Bob
> Bob wrote:
> : Steve Leyland wrote:
> : Those were (in many ways) the best days for land-based pirate radio!
> : The government hadn't woken up to the fact that they could make silly
> : amounts of money by selling off chunks of the radio spectrum, and as
> : long as we didn't cause interference, we were left alone for long
> : periods.
>
> that's very true, I was visited by ron bird and gordon yates in the 80s,
> true gentlemen who knocked politely on the door, asked to come in and were
> equally as politely denied access. so they went away. I turned the rig off
> for an hour then put it back on. how unlike eric's visits in the 90s!
I had a couple of "visits" like that! Eric became increasingly rabid as the
gentlemen of "different" ethnicity became ever more involved, and the scene
became nasty. He was chased off many blocks by baseball bat wielding
thugs! That's when they started to "invite" the Police to attend raids.
> : Components were cheap, and the second generation of RF power
> : transistors made city-covering power easily and cheaply available.
> : Band II was fairly clear, and finding a suitable frequency was easy.
>
> back then I was still on AM with trusty old 807 valves. from a block we
> covered most of the north west of england on caroline's old 963khz
> frequency with a 6 valve anode mod rig.
We used to use 819 kHz (amongst other frequencies), and were probably the
first to use high power semiconductor rigs. We ran "ampliphase" types
amongst others, and used to use a quarterwave of wire from the top of a
block as a "sloper", with the lightning conductor as the other leg of
-effectively- an inverted "V". The critical angle away from the block is
about 14 degrees for a 50 ohm match!
> : I've got some
> : "disposable" 50 Watt rigs in the attic - it might be fun to /really/
> : piss off a few RSLs - white noise mod on "their" frequency should do
> : it. The clueless Ofcom won't understand the problem...
>
> mheh, that would be evil. I don't think it'll be needed, these stations
> are broadcasting to their families and a few mates, they'll be gone soon.
> oh man, I wish I'd recorded the religious one who severely fucked up their
> link, they were over-deviating severely for a week. but they'd paid ofcom
> so it was all ok, right?
I would have jammed their link either with white noise or silence. They
would have got the message very quickly!
> : Why? If they aren't good enough to compete, that's /their/ problem,
> : not yours!
>
> that's exactly what I said to the ofcom bloke in the court corridor and he
> agreed.
> I think he actually enjoyed listening to my station!
We used to have a couple of "official" listeners!
> :: this particular RSL has since complained about another local pirate
> :: and got them raided too.
> :
> : Persistent whiners, eh? /Deal/ with them!
>
> how?
> these rsl heads won't talk to pirates.
*Fix* *them!* Make their "broadcasting" impossible. There are /lots/ of
ways to do that! Also make complaints to Ofcom about their content (do it
from various addresses with various names). Get the MU on their case.
Find out at the Town Hall if the building that houses their studio is a
proper commercial property, and find out what classification of commercial
use it has if it is. Send in the Health and Safety Inspectorate. You can
guarantee that their studio premises wont be properly equipped. Complain
about intermodulation problems caused by their output rig - it's causing
interference to Radio 3...
> :: my mind boggles as to how a pirate can be accused of "stealing" a
> :: listener. don't the listeners have a free choice of where to move
> :: their tuning dial?
> :
> : At the moment, yes. Soon, with the migration to DAB, there will only
> : be a government prescribed range of big broadcasters.
>
> DAB is crap, I tuned into one round at a mate's house a few weeks ago, I
> switched it on and every station was affected by some sorta burbling
> underwater noise. he claimed it was normal and I needed to move the radio
> around, but I turned it off.
Must have been a /very/ poor receiver. I can get perfectly OK,
distortion-free reception in my car. It could be a fine medium, but they
keep reducing the bit rates of all the stations in an effort to cram ever
more repetitive drivel into the band.
Regards
Bob
Steve Leyland
: Steve Leyland wrote:
:
::: Steve Leyland wrote:
:
::: Those were (in many ways) the best days for land-based pirate radio!
::: The government hadn't woken up to the fact that they could make
::: silly amounts of money by selling off chunks of the radio spectrum,
::: and as long as we didn't cause interference, we were left alone for
::: long periods.
::
:: that's very true, I was visited by ron bird and gordon yates in the
:: 80s, true gentlemen who knocked politely on the door, asked to come
:: in and were equally as politely denied access. so they went away. I
:: turned the rig off for an hour then put it back on. how unlike
:: eric's visits in the 90s!
:
: I had a couple of "visits" like that! Eric became increasingly rabid
: as the gentlemen of "different" ethnicity became ever more involved,
: and the scene became nasty. He was chased off many blocks by
: baseball bat wielding thugs! That's when they started to "invite"
: the Police to attend raids.
man, that's when I think it all went wrong. eric was only doing his job,
despite his ridiculous over-enthusiasm.
playing music on the radio without a license should never be an excuse for
violence on either side.
I'm proud to say that none of the rigs stolen by the authorities up here
have ever been resisted with violent measures.
--
Steve Leyland
mhm32x16 Smeeter#24 WSD#41
Alcatroll Labs Inc (bongwater maintenance dept)
=^MEOW MEOW ARMY^=
I like Wagner's music better than any other music. It is so loud that
one can talk the whole time without hearing what one says. That is a
great advantage. - Oscar Wilde