Carl Amari Letter to OTR Hobbyists & Enthusiasts
Shiflet
From: "Carl Amari" <CAm...@RadioSpirits.com>
To: <old.tim...@lofcom.com>
Subject: OPEN LETTER
An Open Letter to OTR Hobbyists and Enthusiasts from Carl P. Amari,
President of Radio Spirits, Inc.:
Recently there has been a great deal of discussion about Radio Spirits (RSI)
and what our stance is on the rights to old-time radio. First, let me say
that I got hooked on old-time radio at age 12. I heard an episode of
Suspense-On a Country Road, and it just blew me away! That was 24 years ago,
and since that time, I've dedicated myself to a hobby that has become a
business.
While in college in 1981 I began playing old-time radio shows that I
purchased from Adventures in Cassettes on the campus radio station. It didn'
t take long before I received a "cease and desist" letter from Charles
Michelson. For those of you who don't know who Mr. Michelson is, he began
syndicating old-time radio long before it was even old-time radio. Let me
explain. In the 1940s, Mr. Michelson started a company to syndicate The
Shadow and many other radio programs to stations all across the country. He
entered into agreements with the producers/owners of the series to
distribute them. By the 1960s, Mr. Michelson had agreements with the
producers/owners to: The Shadow, The Green Hornet, Gangbusters, Dragnet,
Gunsmoke, Fibber McGee & Molly, and many other classic series. In his "cease
and desist" letter to me, Mr. Michelson informed me that he controlled the
distribution rights to many (although not all) of the many hundreds of
old-time radio series.
It became apparent to me that, if I wanted to be in the business of
broadcasting and selling old-time radio programs, I'd better get the rights
to series on my own. In the early 1980s, that's exactly what I set out to
do. The first title I ever licensed was The Mel Blanc Fix-It Shop and I am
proud to say that this relationship is still going strong today. Since the
date of that first license agreement, I've continued my quest to license as
many old-time radio series as I could, including: The Lone Ranger from
Goldenbooks Family Entertainment, The Adventures of Superman from DC Comics,
Lights Out from The Arch Oboler Estate, The Green Hornet from Trendle
Incorporated, The Falcon from the Leslie Charteris Estate, The Abbott &
Costello Show from the estate of Bud Abbott and Lou Costello, The Jack Benny
Program from the estate of Jack Benny, The Burns and Allen Show from the
estate of George Burns and Gracie Allen, Dragnet and The Six Shooter from
MCA Universal, The Life of Riley from Irving Brecher, Tales of the Texas
Rangers from Stacy Keach, Sr., and many, many more. It has been a
time-consuming and expensive mission, but it has also been a labor of love.
The wave of corporate mergers and acquisitions in the '90s has had its
impact on all kinds of businesses - and RSI is no exception. In 1998, RSI
bought the assets of Mr. Michelson's company, which added many radio series
to the mix. Then, in late 1998, Audio Book Club, Inc. bought RSI, as well as
Radio Yesteryear and Adventures in Cassettes. Radio Yesteryear and
Adventures in Cassettes also maintained their own audio libraries of
old-time radio programs. All of these companies have been rolled together
into RSI, further expanding RSI's library.
Today, RSI has an extensive audio library of more than 60,000 old-time radio
titles, including many programs exclusively licensed to RSI. RSI continues
to spend substantial amounts of time and money in an effort to expand and
improve upon its classic radio library. To that end, RSI continues to
research the rights to additional programs and makes efforts to locate
missing programs-many times with the aid of the Library of Congress. The
fact that the programs are old does not necessarily mean that the rights to
the programs have lapsed. Similarly, the fact that there is no registered
copyright for the programs does not mean the programs are not protected by
law. What it does mean is that it is usually more difficult and
time-consuming to determine who owns the rights. Nevertheless, in many
cases, the rights in the programs are still alive and well notwithstanding
the age of the program.
RSI is a business that has chosen to play by the rules. What this means is
that RSI has decided to make a point of tracking down the rights holders and
negotiating royalty agreements with them to use the programs that they
control. In many cases, the rights holders are the very people who have
entertained us over the years. In still other cases, the rights have been
passed on to their heirs. In any case, we believe these people deserve to be
paid their due (and the law requires it).
Playing by the rules is expensive. RSI believes that others should not be
able to unfairly compete with RSI by selling the same products as RSI
without paying royalties to the rights holders and without incurring the
other expenses that we have absorbed. When we discover the unauthorized
exploitation of the rights that we have acquired, we are put in the
distasteful (and often costly) position of having to defend our rights.
To improve the quality of its product offerings, RSI has built its own
recording studios and has equipped them with state-of-the-art computer
systems and other equipment to remove imperfections and restore the original
quality of the sound recordings. To further enhance our product line, we
frequently retain experts in the OTR field to write informative booklets
that accompany our product collections. By going the extra mile, we believe
we have broadened the OTR spectrum by offering more programming and better
information, all to the benefit of OTR fans across the country.
Technology is rapidly changing the world. One of the biggest challenges
confronting businesses today-including RSI-is figuring out how to use the
Internet to increase business while at the same time protecting against its
pitfalls and dangers. The protection of intellectual property, for instance,
is particularly difficult because it can be quickly disseminated
electronically to large numbers of people at such a low cost. Just because
information can be transported easily and cheaply, however, does not make it
lawful. The copyright laws were designed to protect and reward bright,
creative and talented people for creating works that entertain us, educate
us, make us more productive, make life easier for us or otherwise make the
world a better place. But technology has also made it easier for people to
violate these laws in widespread and harmful ways. That is why software
companies, record labels and everyone in between are vigilantly monitoring
activity on the Internet and, at the same time, lobbying and pushing for
legal and technological changes to address these issues.
RSI has no desire to quash the enthusiasm of old-time radio hobbyists. On
the contrary, we would like to see the OTR community flourish and spread as
much as possible. However, we also want to make sure that our rights are
honored and protected at the same time. We would like to work together with
enthusiasts, and we would welcome any ideas you may have in that regard.
Please feel free to send your suggestions and comments to me at
cam...@radiospirits.com.
Yours truly,
Carl Amari, President
Radio Spirits, Inc.
P.S. Radiospirits.com is a fully transactional e-commerce web site dedicated
to providing customers and web site visitors with the best OTR programming
including a searchable database of over 60,000 programs from our old-time
radio program library. Visitors can purchase radio shows in cassette and
compact disc formats in addition to soon-to-be-available secure digital
download formats that will enable users to listen to shows on both their PCs
and digital consumer electronics devices. The site also offers a wealth of
free streaming audio of shows, including a free weekly re-broadcast of our
radio shows When Radio Was, Radio Super Heroes and Radio Movie Classics. The
site also offers information on individual programs, celebrities and other
talent of the Golden Age of Radio, contests and trivia information.
Also, we would like to let you know that RSI is in the process of developing
an "Associates Program" whereby participants will be entitled to receive
compensation for referrals from their web sites to RSI's web site. The terms
and conditions of this program are currently being worked out. Please look
for our announcement of the roll-out of this program, which we expect to
occur before the end of the year.
------------------------------
Shiflet
Just so there are no misunderstandings. I posted Mr. Amari's letter after
receiving it from the LOF OTR mailing list. I don't want anyone to think
that I am somehow in agreement with his position. I stand firm with my OTR
brethren.
Ron Shiflet
cma...@cts.com
Ron:
Me too! I still don't see why Carl won't allow people the chance to download files from other ftp sites if he is
going to do so from his website. Well, let's hope this mess settles very soon.
Keith Lee
Shiflet
>
>Thnak you for posting it here. Why Carl did not post it here is
>something to think about. Is he simply ignorant of Usenet or does he
>just not find this group of people here worth the time to send off a
>message?
>
That's an interesting question. There is much (understandable IMO) anger on
this group and it seems like this would be a good place for Mr. Amari to
address the issue. Notice that he still did not come out and address the
issue of how he will react to the websites who offer downloads. I think his
position is clear, otherwise it would be a simple matter of "clearing things
up" and putting an end to the ill will which will surely have at least a
small effect on his profit. Internet fans of OTR may not be the majority
fan base but I suspect that we are rather fanatical and purchase more OTR
sets than the casual fan. Radio Spirits has lost an order for two show sets
I was preparing to order before the recent events.
Earl (Pat) Tuttle
It seems to me, as it probably does to most of you, that Amari is
trying to corner the market on OTR. In doing this wouldn't he be
creating a MONOPOLY of OTR and are monopolies not against the law?
Would a class action lawsuit not be called for in this case?
J $
On Tue, 2 Nov 1999 12:56:50 -0600, "Shiflet" <rshi...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most!
Matt Dillon
>the fact that there is no registered
>copyright for the programs does not mean the programs are not protected by
>law."
Yeah, the Public Domain, that's what law.
tom from wsmf.org
"Shiflet" <rshi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Greetings Friends,
>
> Just so there are no misunderstandings. I posted Mr. Amari's letter
after
> receiving it from the LOF OTR mailing list. I don't want anyone to
think
> that I am somehow in agreement with his position. I stand firm with
my OTR
> brethren.
>
Thnak you for posting it here. Why Carl did not post it here is
something to think about. Is he simply ignorant of Usenet or does he
just not find this group of people here worth the time to send off a
message?
--
-----------------------------
http://wsmf.org
Home of the digiOTRguide,BBS,
and other wsmf goodness
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
mls
wrote:
>tom from wsmf.org wrote in message <7vnvjc$qgc$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>>
>>Thnak you for posting it here. Why Carl did not post it here is
>>something to think about. Is he simply ignorant of Usenet or does he
>>just not find this group of people here worth the time to send off a
>>message?
>>
>That's an interesting question. There is much (understandable IMO) anger on
>this group and it seems like this would be a good place for Mr. Amari to
>address the issue. Notice that he still did not come out and address the
>issue of how he will react to the websites who offer downloads. I think his
>position is clear, otherwise it would be a simple matter of "clearing things
>up" and putting an end to the ill will which will surely have at least a
>small effect on his profit. Internet fans of OTR may not be the majority
>fan base but I suspect that we are rather fanatical and purchase more OTR
>sets than the casual fan. Radio Spirits has lost an order for two show sets
>I was preparing to order before the recent events.
>
>
The reason the letter was not originally posted here was that Mr.
Herrick sent it by fax to me, asking me to give him an opinion. I did,
and it was posted here as well as on my message board.
Once I sent it back with comments it was sent to several other people
who posted it here.
There will be a follow-up on the letter but I don't know when. Mr.
Herrick is on vacation.
M L Shannon
Martin Hunt
>It became apparent to me that, if I wanted to be in the business of
>broadcasting and selling old-time radio programs, I'd better get the rights
>to series on my own.
Monopoly makes for good profit.
>Then, in late 1998, Audio Book Club, Inc. bought RSI, as well as
>Radio Yesteryear and Adventures in Cassettes. Radio Yesteryear and
>Adventures in Cassettes also maintained their own audio libraries of
>old-time radio programs. All of these companies have been rolled together
>into RSI, further expanding RSI's library.
You sold the business to Audio Book Club for a handsome sum.
Now you're out?
>Today, RSI has an extensive audio library of more than 60,000 old-time radio
>titles, including many programs exclusively licensed to RSI.
And of those 60,000, how many do you distribute even though you
do not have the rights to them? Hypocrite.
>RSI continues
>to spend substantial amounts of time and money in an effort to expand and
>improve upon its classic radio library.
And how many of R$'s 60,000 shows came from OTR hobbyists? Where
would R$ be without them.
>Playing by the rules is expensive.
Yet you have made more money from OTR than anyone else, correct?
You make it sound almost like a philanthropic venture, this
monopolizing of history.
>When we discover the unauthorized
>exploitation of the rights that we have acquired, we are put in the
>distasteful (and often costly) position of having to defend our rights.
Again you talk about how much money you spend. Yet your profits
are large.
You went from someone who wants to spread the hobby to someone
who only thinks about the bottom line. Bottom line morality.
>One of the biggest challenges
>confronting businesses today-including RSI-is figuring out how to use the
>Internet to increase business while at the same time protecting against its
>pitfalls and dangers.
It isn't dangerous to the people, only to certain narrow-minded
vested interests. In any case, the battle has been won, and the
people are the victors. You - and the other profiteers - will
never get this genie back in the bottle. You will have to learn
to work with people rather than against them. You will have to
learn to make your own way rather than living off their backs.
>Just because
>information can be transported easily and cheaply, however, does not make it
>lawful.
Just because you can profit from a law doesn't make it just.
I never voted for a copyright extention to over a century. Who
would? Let's have a vote. Vote for one of the following:
1. Copyright lasts for ten years.
2. Copyright lasts for one hundred years.
3. Copyright lasts for one thousand years.
4. Copyright lasts forever. There is no more public domain.
Libraries are banned. Creation grinds to a halt, as punitive
lawsuits are launched against all new creativity on the basis
that it is, in some way, based on something from the past.
And that's illegal.
All corporate interests such as yourself will vote for #4.
Practically everyone else will vote for #1.
>The copyright laws were designed to protect and reward bright,
>creative and talented people for creating works that entertain us, educate
>us, make us more productive, make life easier for us or otherwise make the
>world a better place.
Not bad. So, you're a bright, creative and talented person, are
you? What, exactly, have you ever created?
Copyright laws were not established to protect your profits, no.
The US Congress has stated it thus in relation to copyright:
"The enactment of copyright legislation by Congress under the
terms of the Constitution is not based on any natural right that the
author has in his writings... but upon the ground that the welfare of
the public will be served and progress of science and useful arts will
be promoted... Not primarily for the benefit of the author, but
primarily for the benefit of the public, such rights are given." (1)
Will the useful arts and sciences be promoted by your monopoly?
Time to bring in the lawyers to look into anti-trust action
against Radio $pirits for trying to "corner the market".
>But technology has also made it easier for people to
>violate these laws in widespread and harmful ways.
Has there been some widespread harm done to the creative world
by the internet? I failed to notice. It seems to me that things
are going along better than ever; more music, more drama, more
movies, more art, more writing, more software - more of everything.
The reason for this is obvious: the internet is good for people,
good for creativity, good for the economy. Countries which crack
down on the free activity of millions of people on the internet
will suffer an economic penalty. Those that open the floodgates
will experience a boom. Economic activity on the net is now
approaching half a trillion dollars. Where is your "widespread
harm"? What, none of us can listen to OTR because of the
internet? Are you not aware that *because* of the internet, OTR
is undergoing a boom? Aren't you aware of the fact that the
internet has made OTR better, cheaper, more widespread, more
available? No, the net has only hurt one tiny insignificant
segment of our wonderful society: profiteers.
>That is why software
>companies, record labels and everyone in between are vigilantly monitoring
>activity on the Internet and, at the same time, lobbying and pushing for
>legal and technological changes to address these issues.
All these measures will fail. As I said, the war is over, and
the people won. Pictures at 11:00.
>RSI has no desire to quash the enthusiasm of old-time radio hobbyists.
Yes you do, but you won't succeed.
>On
>the contrary, we would like to see the OTR community flourish and spread as
>much as possible.
Oh, don't worry; it will. With or without you. I suspect without
you. The masses are slow to respond, while profiteer corporate
entities are fast. But once people start to move on the ridiculous
Scientology-inspired Sonny Bono copyright extentions, it will all
be over but the crying for the likes of you and yours.
>However, we also want to make sure that our rights are
>honored and protected at the same time.
Do you know who granted you those rights? We, the People.
>We would like to work together with
>enthusiasts, and we would welcome any ideas you may have in that regard.
Stay out of the way or get squashed.
>Please feel free to send your suggestions and comments to me at
>cam...@radiospirits.com.
PS, video killed the radio star.
If I were a gambling man, I wouldn't be buying heavily leveraged
IP companies right now. MP3 is going to be as destructive to
these companies as TV was to radio. In my humble opinion, of
course.
JJ
totally control all OTR recordings. As far as his rights to all he
claims, I seriously doubt it.
Forget R$ and Audio Books, trade, trade, trade.
Matt Dillon
Many programs from the war years - and beyond - exist only in versions
recorded by the Armed Forces Radio Service (AFRS). Practically any network
radio programming was allowed to be recorded and edited by the AFRS with the
complete and cost-free permission of the various networks, unions,
performers,
and sponsors of the time. However, there was a clear agreement made between
all that this programming was to be used strictly for rebroadcast to
members
of the armed forces and their allies and not to be used for any other
purposes. Additionally, in order to protect the rights of the copyright
holders, commercial rebroadcast was *specifically prohibited*. In addition,
it
is my understanding that the original agreements regarding these recordings
stipulated that *all* of these recordings were to be destroyed by the end of
1948 - when the original agreements expired. (I apologize if the date is
inaccurate - I believe it to be correct.) Similar agreements were made
regarding both V-Discs and programming created and recorded specifically for
military broadcast ("Mail Call," "Command Performance," "Jubilee," etc.)
Legally speaking, these discs and the programming preserved on them should
not
literally exist, nor should they ever be used for any commercial purpose.
Yet
Radio Spirits has a great many programs in their catalog which are taken
from
AFRS discs, including many of the shows mentioned above. How is it possible
for Radio Spirits to have licensed the rights to release shows which legally
should no longer exist at all?
My reactions to this:
Carl, you have no right to use something that was made for me. You see,
I'm a VETERAN! I sicken at the very thought of some punk DRAFT-DODGER using
what was made SPECIFICALLY for me and my fellow comrades-in-arms.
Here's Carl Amari, whos never served his country a day in his f'in
life, using radio programs to benefit his little damn empire. I served and
was wounded in action. I am a disabled veteran. I don't want any fuckin'
sympathy from anyone because I cannot use my right hand any more, but what
I'd like is justice. True, I was in the service 30 years after the said
broadcasts were aired, but who has more rights to listen and profit from
them? Some f'in punk shit ass creep draft-dodger or a disabled veteran? I'd
like to put that creep Amari on the battle lines where I was in Beirut,
Lebanon, and see how long that asshole lasted. I got hit with an 82mm mortar
round and was in the hospital for a fuckin' year...a year! I'm the one who
has to live with all this shit while some slime like him profits to great
new heights. I'm the guy who gets a check from the VA because of my
disability, who cannot even think of having a real job because I'm so damn
fucked up from that mortar blast that I live with chronic pain. But he can
freely use AFRS broadcasts? Screw him! Nobody except the IRS can even touch
my VA disability, so let the little shit-ass punk sue me! I'm in a position
to be a so-called "man-of-straw", a person with no assets, so what are your
slimy lawyers gonna get from me, I owe no taxes and charge nothing for the
shows on my web site, so sue me you little shit, as I have nothing to lose.
I won't even show up at the hearing...you fuckin' piss ant....you can't
touch me! Ha Ha Ha!
How about a Cease and Desist order against MediaBay by the Judge Advocate
General of the U. S. Navy? How'd ya like that, punk? I'm gonna look into it,
just for you Carl, just for you. I'm still in the military, by the way. When
you are medically retired, you still carry a military ID card, and still
have military priveledges, ya know...oops, I guess you fucked with the wrong
crowd, ya bastard. I'm honorably discharged from the US Marine Corps. I'd
like to see ya fuck with a Marine. I'd like to see how that pans out for
you, just in time for your Christmas sales season.
Name withheld for privacy reasons.
Long live OTR
Long live our honorable Veterans
Remember November 11th.
JJ
that most of his claims would stand up if challanged in court.
JJ
>
> JJ wrote in message <382072...@no.net>...
> >I don't think Mr Amari really owns all the rights he claims. I doubt
> >that most of his claims would stand up if challanged in court.
>
> those lines) and listed a whole bunch of shows. Was he avoiding saying
> categorically which shows he has rights to? More bluff?
I would tend to think most of his claims are pure bluff, knowing that
the only way to prove it is to call his bluff, which could cost lots of
money, which the average OTR fan just dosen't have, and he knows that.
Perhaps someone could get the rights to a couple of shows he dosent't
have and then issue a C&D to R$ to stop selling OTR shows as he may be
selling the ones that that someone has the rights to, and like R$, you
don't have to reveal which shows. In other words, play the same game.
Matt Dillon
though. I'm gonna love watchin' that worm squirm.
Listen up ya'll:
Think for a minute.....If Carl's big plans fall through because enough
people get mad and stop buyin' from R$, MediaBay'll drop him like a hot
tater. So then we'll have a piss-broke Carl, dumped by a corporation for
losin' a few million. Who's gonna hire him, who? Nobody. So then we'll a a
broke down carl, who won't have any more big $$$ to threaten and intimidate
people any more, sittin' with all those copyrights and licenses. What
company's gonna buy them from him? They'll be like poison to them. Nobody
will want those things, and Carl won't have enough dough to sue anyone. So,
I'm waitin' for Carl's fall. Then we'll have the freedom to trade, sell,
post, ect. ect. these shows as we please regardless of Carl's so called
"rights" to the shows, 'cause he'll not be able to do anything about it.
He'll probably end up in one of three ways:
working at burger king for $6.95 an hour
in an insane asylum
found in his cell or dingy slum apartment hung
Not a bad finish for a lowdown sidewinder, huh?
Charlie Erb <wax...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7vr7dv$3rr$1...@oak.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> holy jumpin' catfish, Marshall, don't bust a gusset over this-- we need
men
> like you in this War of Carl's!
> your insight into the Armed Forces Radio broadcasts is great ammo.
> if R$ can be outflanked-- hit him from both the Military ADG and from
> Congress-- maybe we'll have the necessary leverage without having to
spring
> for the high-priced lawyers (I think the "grassroots" approach would be
more
> effective anyways-- paying money for justice is exactly what we're
fighting
> against, the paying of money to create and control justice by those who
can
> afford it).
> I wonder if Geoffrey Feiger would be interested? he seems to take on noble
> (and innoble) causes for underdogs...
> or, even better, F. Lee Bailey-- still respected, and I think a Marine...
>
>
>
Bruce Guthrie
Charlie Erb
¥
> something to think about. Is he simply ignorant of Usenet or does he
> just not find this group of people here worth the time to send off a
> message?
I don't even know why he bothered to explain anything at ALL to you
ungratefull theives and pirates. It is not his duty or resposibility to
hang out on this newsgroup and reply back everytime someone wants to
know why they can't steal copyrighted material. The letter posted here
seems to explain things very well and makes perfect sense. There isn't
any other way to explain the situation, so what is the problem? You
will keep asking the same exact questions and he would give the same
exact answers over and over. What a waste of time. Do you think
someone in his position has the TIME to play games with you people?
I myself would find it very WEIRD and not normal if a company president
was hanging around on this small newsgroup everyday replying to all your
silly statements! Show me another company president that does this.
Just don't buy anything if you don't want to and keep your crappy
sounding compressed computer files and quit bitching if someone else
wants to buy a quality copy of some shows legally.
¥
>
> Hello All,
>
> It seems to me, as it probably does to most of you, that Amari is
> trying to corner the market on OTR. In doing this wouldn't he be
> creating a MONOPOLY of OTR and are monopolies not against the law?
Like the Post Office?
¥
> issue of how he will react to the websites who offer downloads. I
this newsgroup! How can someone answer a question they don't read? Why
would someone NEED to answer a question that is stupid?
Here is a clue...
Whatever question you have about downloads on websites or whatever, just
think about what the answer would be if you were doing the same thing
with music that you did not own the rights to. The answer will be the
same!
Even if you are so lame to believe that RS does not own the rights to
any of the OTR shows (forget that they themselves would have been sued
years ago!) the fact remains that SOMEBODY does! If YOU are not the
rights holder of a show, then you can't put it on your website or sell
it until YOU find out who owns it and get their permission!
If I want to put up on my website songs from Jimmy Hendrix because he is
dead and I believe that his music is now public domain, and the
apropriate record label sends me a letter of cease & desist, Do I do as
you...
Ask the record label to PROVE that they own the rights to this music,
Tell them that nothing before 1972 (or whatever) is copyrighted (silly)
Tell them they are destroying the hobby of collecting and trading music,
Write questions to them on a Jimi Hendrix newsgroup and wonder why the
president of the record label doesn't answer any of the posts,
Boycott buying any music or cds from that record label.
OR... should I have found out who owns the rights before I put them on
any website and get permission first?
This is just like eating some grapes at the grocery store and having a
grand ol'time until one day you get caught by the store management and
get MAD when they call the cops on you for spoiling your day! How can
anyone charge money for a few grapes? Didn't god make them for
EVERYONE? How dare the greedy store owner to SELL and make money off of
stuff he didn't even GROW himself! BASTARD! Boycott!
¥
>
> I don't think Mr Amari really owns all the rights he claims. I doubt
> that most of his claims would stand up if challanged in court.
Go for it big man! You must know something their big corporate lawyers
don't! Let us know the results of your case here in a few months, or
else just admit you aren't a lawyer, don't know anything about the laws
concerning this, and just give it a rest. You fools think Audio Book
Club had to BUY Radio Spirits and the other 3 companies to get all the
rights when there were no rights there to get in the first place?!
Why did Audio Book Club Buy all those OTR companies??? Did they need 3
or 4 (or however many it was) when none of those companies owned any of
the rights?
Morons! THINK!
¥
No, but trying to KEEP ON THE TOPIC, you couldn't come up with anything
to argue my point could you? Let's see if you can come up with an
intelligent response to the point I made without just saying something
stupid like calling someone a troll because you can't argue the fact
stated.
MyShadow97
domain, or the license to distribute tape cassettes with the picture of a
licensed character on them is not the same thing as owning copyrights to the
shows themselves.
Without trademarked characters on their packaging, and not broadcast, unless
someone goes and changes the copyright laws, audio recordings of old radio
dramas produced before the 70s are public domain and freely distributable.
The reason Audio Book club bought the other companies was to get access to
their libraries of high-quality original master recordings of this public
domain material, which can be turned into saleable products.
Your grape analogy is foolish, it actually works against your own argument --
there is no question that grapes offered in a store for sale should be legally
paid for by a customer.
It's when a store owner decides that he has the copyright on grapes and only he
out of all the people in the world has the right to sell them that the problems
begin.
Dumbass.
mls
wrote:
>Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 10:30:10 -0500
>From: "Carl Amari" <CAm...@RadioSpirits.com>
>To: <old.tim...@lofcom.com>
>Subject: OPEN LETTER
>
>An Open Letter to OTR Hobbyists and Enthusiasts from Carl P. Amari,
>President of Radio Spirits, Inc.:
>
<snip>
A modified version of Amari's letter was faxed to me today by Mike
Herrick. It is supposed to be posted on the ABC site and I am supposed
to get an Email copy to post here.
When I do get it, it will appear here.
M L Shannon
JJ
MyShadow97
protected by copyrights referring to their printed forms, their "content,"
which have been kept up to date and renewed by the composers or music
publishers and are therefore still in effect today. Apart from a very few radio
dramas such as Sorry, Wrong Number and The Hitchhiker, by Lucille Fletcher,
which are owned by and can still be licensed from Dramatists Play Service, the
content of most old-time radio dramas was not originally and has never been
published in a fixed format or registered with the Library of Congress, and if
ever copyrighted not renewed, and therefore not eligible for protection in the
same way as music is, or was. Many scripts for OTR programs were never
copyrighted to begin with or ever published in a "fixed form" which could be
registered with the LoC, and copyrights for any scripts that were actually
registered lapsed after 28 years if they were not renewed. There would not have
appeared to be any reason to pay to renew most copyrights at the time they
lapsed -- apart from CBS Radio Mystery Theater, in the 1970s, radio drama was a
dead industry.
Not that the content issue makes much difference in the case of radio
broadcasts. Sound recordings made prior to the 70s were not independently
copyrightable. This means that a DJ had, and has, every right to play
recordings of pre-1970s songs on the air without asking anyone's permission,
but it doesn't allow him to sell copies of the same songs because the music
itself is still protected. The content of most songs is copyrighted, the
content of most radio dramas is not. Most songs are published in print form and
copies of them are registered in the Library of Congress. Recordings of most
radio dramas or the scripts thereof are not. Most music publishers are actively
interested in protecting their copyrighted music. Most old time radio script
writers are dead, and, as I mentioned, may never have applied for script
copyrights to begin with. The question is still slightly open as to whether the
actual broadcast of a radio program constituted "publication" or not, but as
things stand now, and unless laws are amended or changed, audio recordings
published during the 70s that are filed at the Library of Congress are now
independently copyrightable, considered "publications" and protected. Earlier
stuff just plain isn't.
<And like OTR, grapes are not public domain.>
They aren't? This is too funny. Obviously you have no idea of the difference
between the meanings of the term "public domain" and the phrase "free of
charge" which makes you a rather dumb person and a potential danger to video
store owners who sell copies of public domain titles.
If you will excuse me, I must go and eat something, I just got the biggest
craving for copyrighted grapes.
Martin Hunt
>Earl (Pat) Tuttle wrote:
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> It seems to me, as it probably does to most of you, that Amari is
>> trying to corner the market on OTR. In doing this wouldn't he be
>> creating a MONOPOLY of OTR and are monopolies not against the law?
>
>Like the Post Office?
Never heard of UPS, Fedex?
A better analogy would be the power companies. But they are
what's known as a "natural monopoly". Taking control of all
radio broadcasts would hardly qualify, imho (ianal).
Joseph Teller
>Here is a clue...
Go away troll... too much of a coward to post under your own real name
or your own real email address art thou? Seems to me you have
something to hide. Could you be a Shill for R$? Perhaps an Employee?
Methinks Thee Protest Too Much.
Joe
Joseph Teller joet...@mindspring.com
"Put Some Fantasy Back In Your Life!"
The Fantasy Library
http://www.fantasylibrary.com
Joseph Teller
>No, but trying to KEEP ON THE TOPIC, you couldn't come up with anything
>to argue my point could you? Let's see if you can come up with an
>intelligent response to the point I made without just saying something
>stupid like calling someone a troll because you can't argue the fact
>stated.
Your Trollhood is caused by your hiding to avoid folks knowing who you
are. Many suspect you are a shill for R$ and possibly an employee of
said company trying to cause dissention so that no one tries to
organize the OTR collectors and hobbyists to challange the legal
grounds that R$ claims rights under.
You want to be treated as a real person? Act like one - use your real
name and your real email address so that we know who you are.
Otherwise, you're an annonymous Troll. Period.
¥
Bendy
SHARP LIKE A BALL
NOW SHUT YOUR DAMN MOUTH AND KNOW YOUR ROLE JABRONE!
John Mayer
Known as Prince?] <L0...@ME.COM> wrote:
> JJ wrote:
> >
> > I don't think Mr Amari really owns all the rights he claims. I doubt
> > that most of his claims would stand up if challenged in court.
>
> Go for it big man! You must know something their big corporate lawyers
> don't! Let us know the results of your case here in a few months, or
> else just admit you aren't a lawyer, don't know anything about the laws
Even lawyers who specialize in copyright law disagree about aspects of
copyright protection, but few here seem to be less knowledgeable than
you.
> concerning this, and just give it a rest. You fools think Audio Book
> Club had to BUY Radio Spirits and the other 3 companies to get all the
> rights when there were no rights there to get in the first place?!
No, they just had to buy them to get those shows they DID have rights
to, which happen to be some of the best known shows, along with Radio
Spirits' experience in researching and securing rights to additional
shows. Amari's letter implies that he does NOT, in fact, own all the
shows he sells; he says he has exclusive rights to SOME shows. Some
shows are certainly in public domain, and of those that are not, who
knows if Amari actually negotiated with the appropriate parties.
According to some authorities on Radio Roundtable - who DO know
something about the law - since most shows were not published in fixed
form, common law copyright continues to reside in the written script
until such time as the show IS published in some fashion. Those shows
that had staff writers, like _The Lone Ranger_ would thus continue to
belong to their producers, but what about shows which were written by
free-lancers? Do they belong to the authors, or their descendants? How
about stories like "Evening Primrose" which aired on _Escape_? Do the
heirs of John Collier, who wrote the story the script was based on, own
the radio show? And how about residuals to the actors who performed?
And, as Matt Dillon points out (hey, gyrene, I was a Marine for a day,
myself [long story]), the Armed Forces Radio Service recordings, as
well as many Air Check recordings, were specifically restricted from
ever being rebroadcast. Many, if not most, OTR wouldn't even exist were
it not for "pirates" of days gone by who cared enough to save the shows
the networks meant to discard forever.
Nobody begrudges Amari the money for the shows he bought rights to fair
and square; it's his trying to intimidate decent folks who are posting
shows for the enjoyment of others without thought of profit, trying to
prevent them from sharing shows that ARE in the public domain, or to
which Amari does not yet have rights. It may be legal, but it's not
honorable.
> Morons! THINK!
Pimplebrain. What do you know about thinking? And why do you sign your
posts with a •? Most illiterates sign with an X.
John Mayer
> Earl (Pat) Tuttle wrote:
> >
> > ... Amari is
> > trying to corner the market on OTR. In doing this wouldn't he be
> > creating a MONOPOLY of OTR and are monopolies not against the law?
>
> Like the Post Office?
Hi, again, ¥. Ever hear of FedEx? Or UPS? They take the gravy and leave
the Post Office - a private corporation these days, by the way - to do
the humdrum stuff like making sure you get your welfare check. I've
never yet had a package delivered without problems by UPS. And it cost
me $30 to have FedEx deliver a last minute copy of Cinnamon Bear (say,
is that in public domain?) to a friend's kid just before Christmas.
Thank God for the post office.
Monopolies aren't necessarily illegal, but they have to walk very
lightly: e. g., Microsoft.
John Mayer
<fantas...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Your Trollhood is caused by your hiding to avoid folks knowing who you
> are. Many suspect you are a shill for R$ and possibly an employee of
> said company trying to cause dissention so that no one tries to
> organize the OTR collectors and hobbyists to challange the legal
> grounds that R$ claims rights under.
Don't think so; no sensible business person would let such an obvious
buffoon represent their interests. Then again, considering Amari's
skills at public relations...
Earl (Pat) Tuttle AKA Johnny Dollar
First off I don't get a welfare check butt head. As for the USPS, well, it
sucks. My mother used to live 110 miles from me. A letter she sent me took
two weeks to get here. It went to the east coast first and then Canada
before arriving in my mailbox. I am surprised they didn't charge me extra
for the extra mileage.
Yes it may cost more to send via UPS and FedEx, but you know what? When
they lose an item they at least have a tracking system to relocate it. The
USPS wants you to wait and wait and wait.
As for comparing Radio $pirit$ to Microsoft, my only question is what drug
are you taking? They are no way alike, Gates wouldn't wipe his feet on
Radio $pirit$.
Pat
John Mayer
<betu...@netins.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 06:47:01 GMT, John Mayer
> <IxnayOnnaP...@usit.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <38222A...@ME.COM>, <L0...@ME.COM> wrote:
> >
> >> Earl (Pat) Tuttle wrote:
> >> >
> >> > ... Amari is
> >> > trying to corner the market on OTR. In doing this wouldn't he be
> >> > creating a MONOPOLY of OTR and are monopolies not against the law?
> >>
> >> Like the Post Office?
> >
> >Hi, again, . Ever hear of FedEx? Or UPS? They take the gravy and leave
> >the Post Office - a private corporation these days, by the way - to do
> >the humdrum stuff like making sure you get your welfare check.
>
> First off I don't get a welfare check butt head. As for the USPS, well, it
> sucks. My mother used to live 110 miles from me. A letter she sent me took
> two weeks to get here.
What, you mean you don't live with your mother? And what did you do to
lose your welfare check? Maybe you can appeal.
What, out of billions of pieces of mail the post office occasionally
misdirects one? Well, why not send your mail through UPS? It'll end up
in the front yard of your mother's neighbor three houses down.
> Yes it may cost more to send via UPS and FedEx, but you know what? When
> they lose an item they at least have a tracking system to relocate it.
If UPS is so good at tracking their packages, why do I have to keep
locating my neighbors and giving them the packages UPS has mistakenly
left at my house. I have about four now that I haven't found a correct
address for. What good is UPS's tracking system on all their
misdirected packages?
And why are you getting so far off topic?
> As for comparing Radio $pirit$ to Microsoft, my only question is what drug
> are you taking? They are no way alike, Gates wouldn't wipe his feet on
> Radio $pirit$.
I quit taking drugs when pot went up to $35 an ounce. And I was drawing
a parallel, not an equivalency, i.e., Amari is to OTR as Gates is to
Operating Systems, not Amari IS Gates. I see you have a little trouble
with abstract concepts. And concrete ones. I never suggested that Gates
was contemplating how to make OTR playable only on a Windows platform.
Though, I suppose, you'd be in favor of that.
Earl (Pat) Tuttle AKA Johnny Dollar
<IxnayOnnaP...@usit.net> wrote:
>In article <LYsyOLYpHlOQS0...@4ax.com>, Pat
><betu...@netins.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 16 Nov 1999 06:47:01 GMT, John Mayer
>> <IxnayOnnaP...@usit.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <38222A...@ME.COM>, <L0...@ME.COM> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Earl (Pat) Tuttle wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > ... Amari is
>> >> > trying to corner the market on OTR. In doing this wouldn't he be
>> >> > creating a MONOPOLY of OTR and are monopolies not against the law?
>> >>
>> >> Like the Post Office?
>> >
>> >Hi, again, . Ever hear of FedEx? Or UPS? They take the gravy and leave
>> >the Post Office - a private corporation these days, by the way - to do
>> >the humdrum stuff like making sure you get your welfare check.
>>
>> First off I don't get a welfare check butt head. As for the USPS, well, it
>> sucks. My mother used to live 110 miles from me. A letter she sent me took
>> two weeks to get here.
>
>What, you mean you don't live with your mother? And what did you do to
>lose your welfare check? Maybe you can appeal.
Nope, unlike you I grew up and moved away from home and cut the cord many,
many years ago. You seem to have this fixation on welfare checks. Are you
one of those people that get welfare checks under different names each
months, plus free medical treatment?
>
>What, out of billions of pieces of mail the post office occasionally
>misdirects one? Well, why not send your mail through UPS? It'll end up
>in the front yard of your mother's neighbor three houses down.
I've never had this problem, maybe you need new neighbors.
>> Yes it may cost more to send via UPS and FedEx, but you know what? When
>> they lose an item they at least have a tracking system to relocate it.
>
>If UPS is so good at tracking their packages, why do I have to keep
>locating my neighbors and giving them the packages UPS has mistakenly
>left at my house. I have about four now that I haven't found a correct
>address for. What good is UPS's tracking system on all their
>misdirected packages?
See above.
>And why are you getting so far off topic?
>
>> As for comparing Radio $pirit$ to Microsoft, my only question is what drug
>> are you taking? They are no way alike, Gates wouldn't wipe his feet on
>> Radio $pirit$.
>
>I quit taking drugs when pot went up to $35 an ounce. And I was drawing
>a parallel, not an equivalency, i.e., Amari is to OTR as Gates is to
>Operating Systems, not Amari IS Gates. I see you have a little trouble
>with abstract concepts. And concrete ones. I never suggested that Gates
>was contemplating how to make OTR playable only on a Windows platform.
>Though, I suppose, you'd be in favor of that.
Obviously you are still taking something because you are keeping track of
the price. The only thing that is concrete here is that Amari is and ass
and maybe you too. Do your paychecks from him bounce?