Pith and Vinegar

[Mike & Kay Collins]

I used the saying "Full of Pith and Vinegar" at work. I was corrected
because of my "lisp." However, I know I used the phrase correctly. Can
anybody please tell me this phrase's origin?

Thanks in advance.

Mike in Milwaukee

[Robert M. Wilson]

Mike & Kay Collins wrote in message <7m64vk$i...@newsops.execpc.com>...

>I used the saying "Full of Pith and Vinegar" at work. I was corrected
>because of my "lisp." However, I know I used the phrase correctly. Can
>anybody please tell me this phrase's origin?

I am aware of the phrase "full of piss and vinegar" but have never heard the
above.
It means something close to 'full of beans' i.e. full of energy, very fit,
and can be complimentary or derogatory depending on the context.
The vinegar part is probably from the sharp, freshness of vinegar (smell it
and you'll see what I mean), though vinegar often has sexual connotations.
I suspect that the "piss" part may come from 'piss ant' which was believed
to be angry and brave, though it may be from the idea that this liquid is
also strong and sharp.

[Kurt Foster]

In <7m64vk$i...@newsops.execpc.com>, Mike & Kay Collins said:
. I used the saying "Full of Pith and Vinegar" at work. I was corrected
. because of my "lisp." However, I know I used the phrase correctly. Can
. anybody please tell me this phrase's origin?

Never heard of it. Don't know how you used it. Haven't got a clue as
to its correct usage.
I've heard "full of piss and vinegar" plenty of times though - eager to
take on any challenge, prove how tough you are, etc.

[Steve hatton]

If it's any good to you, in 1988 Robertson Davies penned ' The Lyre of
Orpheus'.
This contained the lines:

"He turned up then, all elegance and eloquence - full of piss and vinegar
like a barbers cat, to use the old expression."

--

Regards from Steve Hatton, Cornwall, UK

Ventis secundis, tene cursum.

"I submit to no mans opinions,
I have opinions of my own." - Turgenev
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Kurt Foster wrote in message <7m6fvh$q50$1...@news1.rmi.net>...

[Robert Muhich]

Thertainly!

Rlm

[Daniel P. B. Smith]

In article <7m7853$3c3$3...@nclient3-gui.server.virgin.net>,

Steve hatton <steve....@virgin.net> wrote:
>If it's any good to you, in 1988 Robertson Davies penned ' The Lyre of
>Orpheus'.
>This contained the lines:
>
>"He turned up then, all elegance and eloquence - full of piss and vinegar
>like a barbers cat, to use the old expression."

Flexner and Berg's (1967) _Dictionary of American Slang_ contains this
entry for "Piss and vinegar:"

"Energy; vivaciousness; mischievousness. _Not considered taboo_."

No source, no explanation, no barbers or cats... And definitely no entry
under "pith and vinegar." Sure sounds to me as if "pith and vinegar" is a
misunderstanding or a family joke or a deliberate euphemistic
alteration... although I admit the expression is puzzling and intriguing
either way.

--
Daniel P. B. Smith
dpbs...@world.std.com

[Mike & Kay Collins]

After posting my first message, I remember actually reading that phrase was
originally "Pith and Vinegar." I think it was in Reader's Digest, but I
doubt I could ever find it again.

Mike in Milwaukee