catch-phrases
jke
expressions seem to become popular rather suddenly. "Right" has been
replaced recently by "absolutely". (I find myself saying it, damn it)
Anyone know examples of catch-phrases with documented first uses?
MIGASHCO
an interesting one just the same.
I my experience catch phrases sometimes take on near global proportions --
as in the example you mentioned -- and at other times local significance.
In the Midland area of Ontario, Canada, I note that people often end their
sentences with "and that." "I'm going," for example, "to go shopping and
that." It always makes me want to ask what exactly "that" is.
Canadians in general are often noted for ending sentences with "eh?". We
also, depending on how close to a French Canadian community you live, tend
to inject little French influences. Eh, I think is a French-English
influence. As another example of this, some English Canadians will end a
sentence with the word "there." I'm going to eat lunch out at Joe's there."
Many of the local Francophones also end their phrases with the word "la" --
meaning there. I think there is a beautiful richness to these linguistic
cross pollinations and -- at the risk of sounding political -- if the
politicians ever learn to stop separating us, language will continue to
develop new and positive expressions and catch phrases.
As for attributions? They are difficult to pin down in these instances --
catch phrases often seem to emerge from entire cultures, rather than from
specific persons.
jke wrote in message ...
Daniel P. B. Smith
<miga...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> I too don't know if your request belongs in this particular group, but
> it's
> an interesting one just the same.
>
I wish the makers of reference books WOULD pay more attention to
catch-phrases, because in fact I find that my ignorance of them often
impedes my understanding and appreciation of old novels. Sometimes one
can guess from context, but that's probably about as dangerous as it is
when one is a teenager, anxious to use colloquial language properly but
unwilling to _ask_ anyone about their meanings....
Do you think people ever really talked like the businessmen and boosters
in Sinclair Lewis' _Babbitt?_ That is, did he fairly accurately capture
a style of discourse or was it wildly exaggerated?
I may have mentioned before my puzzlement about old books (Stephen
Crane's _Maggie,_ for example) which spell out a word to show the
character's nonstandard pronunciation, and it is our _standard_
pronunciation--like "Pleeze" for "please" and "Ireen" for "Irene..."
Fifty years from now nobody is going to know what "Is that your final
answer?" means. Really makes you think we must be arrogant to suppose
that even the finest Shakespearian scholars can "get" more than about a
tenth of what's going on in his comedies.
I still have never had a really satisfactory answer to my question about
Gilbert and Sullivan, which is full of what sound like double-entendres
to modern ears. However, as far as I know, _no book I've been able to
find_ (e.g. Martyn Green's) says anything about this. The world seems
roughly equally divided between those that believe that all the stuff
("a fairy from the waist down," etc.) meant EXACTLY what it means to
modern ears, and that's WHY Gilbert didn't get his knighthood for so
long, and those that believe otherwise....
--
Daniel P. B. Smith
current email address: dpbs...@bellatlantic.net
"Lifetime forwarding address:" dpbs...@alum.mit.edu
Leslie Paul Davies
: sentences with "and that." "I'm going," for example, "to go shopping and
: that." It always makes me want to ask what exactly "that" is.
: Canadians in general are often noted for ending sentences with "eh?". We
: influence. As another example of this, some English Canadians will end a
: sentence with the word "there." I'm going to eat lunch out at Joe's there."
It took me years of study to
get a handle on this. It is a
function of TOO DARNED MUCH
ED-U-MAH-KAYSHUN! Unlike
ordinary, useful phatics,
these logorrheic gems are
fused in the bowels of the
Academy. Consider:
"Professor, how many pages
did you say that (essay/precis/
experimental write-up / {X})
had to be?" By the time folks
finish grad school, the prions
for inflated written work have
crept via the corpus callosum to
the oral centers!
[Of course, my OWN use of "there"
is well-justified. Since I do badly
with names/faces, my standard greet-
ing is, "Hello there!"]
GL
--
Paul W2SYF/4 Ft Lauderdale EL96vc
"Heisenberg may have slept here... "
Leslie Paul Davies
lpda...@bc.seflin.org
MIGASHCO
colourful phrases that come from some of the environments I train in.
Miners, in particular, seem to be masters of metaphors. They seem to have a
real zest for life and are in many ways better able to capture the beauty
and humour in life. I guess when you live in a hole for eight hours a
day -- sometimes more -- you appreciate surface existence. Here are a few
phrases, some not so polite, but each worthy of mention.
Flatter than piss on a plate.
Slicker than spit on a round door knob.
Tighter than a bull's arse at fly time.
The language, as I say, is a bit course and the metaphors often
scatological, but I do wonder who comes up with these. I love them and
usually have a good belly laugh when I hear them.
In a slightly different realm you might want to take in Rowan Atchinson's
BlackAdder series. He too is great at metaphoric and simile-type catch
phrases.
Leslie Paul Davies wrote in message <87k9h7$9...@nntp.seflin.org>...
Gareth Jones
Brilliant!
Where's me washboard?
I've seen yer wrappin' presents when it's nobody's birthday!
Arse!
We're off-roaders.
You ain't seen me. Roight?
I'll get me coat.
Anyone fancy a pint?
How queer!
Cheesy Peas
Bono estente
Scorchio
Accidento bizarro
Boutros Boutros-Ghali
I wouldn't know about that, sorr.
Oooh! Suits you, sir. Ooh.
Gareth
Gareth Owen
> Brilliant!
> Where's me washboard?
which was nice.
--
Gareth Owen
Nuclear weapons can wipe out life on Earth, if used properly.
jke
"dogsbody"? What does it mean? Not to mention "cheesy peas"....
In article <389ec...@news1.vip.uk.com>, "Gareth Jones"
<GarethNO...@computerweekly.net.zzz> wrote:
> From 'The Fast Show' ..
> Brilliant!
> Where's me washboard?
David Milsted
Actually 'Oooh! Suit you, sir.' I heard them on R5Live getting
quite tetchy about that one!
DM
David Milsted
Nigel Rees (Unwin paperbacks 1980) which is almost certainly out
of print (Unwin no longer exists, for one thing; it was swallowed
by Virgin Publishing) but probably obtainable, at least in the
UK, quite easily.
DM
William C Waterhouse
"Daniel P. B. Smith" <dpbs...@bellatlantic.net> writes:
>...
> Gilbert and Sullivan, which is full of what sound like double-entendres
> to modern ears. However, as far as I know, _no book I've been able to
> find_ (e.g. Martyn Green's) says anything about this. The world seems
> roughly equally divided between those that believe that all the stuff
> ("a fairy from the waist down," etc.) meant EXACTLY what it means to
> modern ears, and that's WHY Gilbert didn't get his knighthood for so
> long, and those that believe otherwise....
This particular example, at least, can be pretty well settled
just on chronological grounds. _Iolanthe_ opened in 1882. The
first recorded uses of "fairy" for a homosexual are American
and from the 1890's. (See the OED and/or Historical Dictionary
of American Slang.)
William C. Waterhouse
Penn State
Midnight Sunburst
>
> I my experience catch phrases sometimes take on near global proportions --
> as in the example you mentioned -- and at other times local significance.
> sentences with "and that." "I'm going," for example, "to go shopping and
> that." It always makes me want to ask what exactly "that" is.
Next time somebody asks you ". . . or what?", ask them "what" is. It's
probably "that" in ". . . and that."
-:-
"You have SECONDS to live, Cynicalman! Use them wisely!"
"OK, I'll get my socks out of the drawer."
--
Col. G. L. Sicherman
home: col...@mail.monmouth.com
work: sich...@lucent.com
web: <http://www.monmouth.com/~colonel/>
Daniel P. B. Smith
I choose not to believe the references! Or, at least, to express a
healthy skepticism. The number of things in Gilbert and Sullivan that
sound so _clearly_ like double-entendres just seem like more than can be
accounted for coincidence--and you do not encounter anything like the
same thing in other Victorian writing, suggesting that it isn't just my
dirty mind.
It is possible to read all sorts of vaguely Freudian overtones into
Lewis Carroll, for example, but there is not a single phrase I can think
of that would cause an outright snicker or giggle--nothing in Carroll
about "fairy from the waist down," no "be firm, my pecker;" And think of
Gilbert's dignified yet overt references to "susceptible Chancellors"
who have "agreeable girls" as wards. Now, Gilbert does not say that any
monkey business is taking place--only that it is "exasperating" that it
isn't! Can you imagine Carroll joking about the resisted temptations of
photographing young girls?
H. G. Wells was a womanizer and wrote about one of his affairs in _Ann
Veronica_ but you can plow your way through _that_ without a snicker.
You can occasionally find writings where a single word that's changed
meaning converts an innocent phrase into a funny one. Yet Oscar
Hammerstein, for example, manages to use the word "gay" in his lyrics
without ever producing accidental double-entendres.
Moreover, the degree of distaste, verging on hostility, felt by
Sullivan, and by Queen Victoria toward Gilbert requires some
explanation. Yes, yes, yes, it could have all been political, those
barbs at incompetent admirals, etc.--but I don't believe it.
If a reference book says that the first written reference it can find
was in thus-and-such a place on thus-and-such a date, I trust that the
reference is correct and the usage is at least that old. But most
reference compilers are bookish people sitting in libraries and there's
no reason to expect that they are au courant with what was circulating
verbally in the culture a century ago. So the real question is, how
long can usages circulate verbally before someone happens to make an
identifiable written reference to them?
And, indeed, how do we know that Gilbert's writings are _not_ such a
reference?
David Milsted
c.1969. In mid-late Victorian London, to be gay meant to be a
female prostitute.
DM
He Comes As No Surprise
>
> ... he is a road-kid or a 'punk' and if he travels witha 'profesh,'
> he is known possessively as a 'prushun.' I was never a prushun, for I
> did not take kindly to possession." What to make of this? Is there a
> suggestion of homosexuality there, or not?
>
> Conversely, Nels Anderson's _The Hobo,_ published in 1923, is explicit
> enough about the sex lives of hoboes: "All studies indicate that
> homosexual practices among homeless men are widespread... The boy does
> not need to remain long in hobo society of learn of homosexual
> practices. The average boy on the road is invariably approached by men
> who get into his good graces. . . ."
"Another thing," Spade repeated, glaring at the boy: "Keep
that gunsel away from me while you're making up your mind. I'll
kill him. I don't like him. He makes me nervous. I'll kill
him the first time he gets in my way. I won't give him an even
break. I won't give him a chance. I'll kill him."
--Dashiell Hammett, _The Maltese Falcon_