IM Dorothy L. Sayers 17 Dec 1957
maigemu
then we grow out of 'em and leave 'em behind, as evidence of our
earlier stages of development.
Dorothy L. Sayers (1893-1957) In "The Beacon Book of Quotations by
Women," by Rosalie Maggio, 1994
Setting aside the scandal caused by His Messianic claims and His
reputation as a political firebrand, only two accusations of personal
depravity seem to have been brought against Jesus of Nazareth. First,
that He was a Sabbath-breaker. Secondly, that He was "a gluttonous man
and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners" -- or (to draw
aside the veil of Elizabethan English that makes it sound so much more
respectable) that He ate too heartily, drank too freely, and kept very
disreputable company, including grafters of the lowest type and ladies
who were no better than they should be. For nineteen and a half
centuries, the Christian Churches have laboured, not without success,
to remove this unfortunate impression made by their Lord and Master.
They have hustled the Magdalens from the Communion-table, founded
Total Abstinence Societies in the name of Him who made the water wine,
and added improvements of their own, such as various bans and
anathemas upon dancing and theatre-going. They have transferred the
Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, and, feeling that the original
commandment "Thou shalt not work" was rather half-hearted, have added
to it the new commandment, "Thou shalt not play." ...Dorothy L. Sayers
It is curious that people who are filled with horrified indignation
whenever a cat kills a sparrow can hear that story of the killing of
God told Sunday after Sunday and not experience any shock at all. --
Dorothy Sayers
Not Herod, not Caiaphas, not Pilate, not Judas ever contrived to
fasten upon Jesus Christ the reproach of insipidity; that final
indignity was left for pious hands to inflict. To make of His story
something that could neither startle, nor shock, nor terrify, nor
excite, nor inspire a living soul is to crucify the Son of God afresh
and put Him to an open shame.--Dorothy Sayers
For whatever reason God chose to make man as he is - limited and
suffering and subject to sorrows and death - he had the honesty and
courage to take his own medicine. Whatever game, he is playing with
his creation, he has kept his own rules and played fair. He can exact
nothing from man that he has not exacted from himself. He has himself
gone through the whole of human experience from trivial irritations of
family life and the cramping restrictions of hard work and lack of
money to the worst horrors of pain and humiliation, defeat, despair
and death. When he was a man, he played the man. He was born in
poverty and died in disgrace and thought it well worthwhile. --DOROTHY
SAYERS
Of late years, the Church has not succeeded very well in preaching
Christ; she has preached Jesus, which is not quite the same thing. --
Dorothy Sayers
Few things are more striking than the change which has taken place
during my own lifetime in the attitude of the intelligentsia towards
the spokesmen of Christian opinion. When I was a child, bishops
expressed doubts about the Resurrection, and were called courageous.
When I was a girl, G. K. Chesterton professed belief in the
Resurrection, and was called whimsical. When I was at college,
thoughtful people expressed belief in the Resurrection "in a spiritual
sense", and were called advanced; (any other kind of belief was called
obsolete, and its professors were held to be simpleminded). When I was
middle-aged, a number of lay persons, including some poets and writers
of popular fiction, put forward rational arguments for the
Resurrection, and were called courageous. Today, any lay apologist for
Christianity... whose works are sold and read, is liable to be abused
in no uncertain terms as a mountebank, a reactionary, a tool of the
Inquisition, a spiritual snob, an intellectual bully, an escapist, an
obstructionist, a psychopathic introvert, an insensitive extrovert,
and an enemy of society. The charges are not always mutually
compatible, but the common animus behind them is unmistakable, and its
name is fear. Writers who attack these domineering Christians are
called courageous.--Dorothy L. Sayers (1893-1957)
It is not the business of the church to adapt Christ to men, but men
to Christ. -- Dorothy Sayers
It is worse than useless for Christians to talk about the importance
of Christian morality unless they are prepared to take their stand
upon the fundamentals of Christian theology. -- Dorothy Sayers
Christ, in His divine innocence, said to the woman of Samaria, 'Ye
worship ye know not what' -- being apparently under the impression
that it might be desirable, on the whole, to know what one was
worshipping. He thus showed Himself sadly out of touch with the
twentieth century mind, for the cry today is: 'Away with the tedious
complexities of dogma [doctrine] -- let us have the simple spirit of
worship, no matter of what!' The only drawback to this demand is the
practical difficulty of arousing any sort of enthusiasm for the
worship of nothing in particular. -- Dorothy Sayers
It is curious that people who are filled with horrified indignation
whenever a cat kills a sparrow can hear that story of the killing of
God told Sunday after Sunday and not experience any shock at all. --
Dorothy Sayers
Contempt of material things as such is, in fact, no more orthodox than
pantheism -- it is the great dualist heresy which always lies in wait
for an over-spiritualized Christianity.... Dorothy L. Sayers
(1893-1957)
Roo Barb
> Books . . . are like lobster shells, we surround ourselves with 'em,
> then we grow out of 'em and leave 'em behind, as evidence of our
> earlier stages of development.
> Dorothy L. Sayers (1893-1957) In "The Beacon Book of Quotations by
> Women," by Rosalie Maggio, 1994
Her slickness in writing has blinded many readers to the fact that her
stories, considered as detective stories, are very bad ones. They lack
the minimum of probability that even a detective story ought to have,
and the crime is always committed in a way that is incredibly tortuous
and quite uninteresting.
~ George Orwell 1903�1950, New English Review (Jan 23, 1936)
--
//Roo-Barb
Pics of AL
http://aussieladiesofaq.blogspot.com
_________________________________________________
SteveMR200
<6e591035-5c32-421d...@g7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>:
>It is not the business of the church to adapt Christ to men, but men
>to Christ. -- Dorothy Sayers
[Charlie] turned back to the conversation and asked
Thomas, "These topics, are they ones you've
addressed from the pulpit?"
The pastor leaned his head back on the sofa, staring
up at the ceiling. Exhaustion had definitely set
in. "Topics?"
"Adultery, stealing, gossip--"
"No. We seldom talk about those things."
"Or anything else of relevance," Lisa quipped from
the hearth. Like her brother, she was also on edge,
something about nearly getting killed and having her
rental car blown up from under her.
Still staring at the ceiling, Thomas replied, "My
sister thinks I'm not judgmental enough in my
sermons."
"Sermons?" Lisa said. "I thought they were comedy
routines."
"We're reaching out to a community with the love of God."
"You're building a fiefdom with watered-down pablum."
"Love is not pablum."
"Neither is truth."
Thomas closed his eyes, trying to drop the subject. "Please."
But if there was one thing Lisa was not good at, it
was dropping subjects. "You tell me what's more
loving: warning someone they're driving off a cliff,
or wishing them a nice day and, oh, by the way, 'Be
sure to stop by the offering box on your way down'?"
--Bill Myers (1953- )
_Angel Of Wrath_ [2009], Chapter 12
--
Steve
William C Waterhouse
> Books . . . are like lobster shells, we surround ourselves with 'em,
> then we grow out of 'em and leave 'em behind, as evidence of our
> earlier stages of development.
> Dorothy L. Sayers (1893-1957) In "The Beacon Book of Quotations by
> Women," by Rosalie Maggio, 1994
"I always have a quotation for everything -- it saves original thinking."
-- D.L. Sayers, _Have His Carcass_, Chap. 4 (spoken by Lord Peter)
William C. Waterhouse
Penn State
Sr. Eveline
> The pastor leaned his head back on the sofa, staring
> up at the ceiling. Exhaustion had definitely set
> in. "Topics?"
>
> "Adultery, stealing, gossip--"
>
> "No. We seldom talk about those things."
______________________________________
Some seeker-friendly churches do indeed welcome the less
doctrinally-driven atmosphere because it does help increase numbers. For
instance, the non-denominational. Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas,lead
by Joel Osteen packs them in 16,000 at a time. The church has no visible
symbols of religion. Instead, it proudly displays signs which points to
its caf� with Internet access and 32 video game kiosks.
To keep those numbers, Osteen, who did not go to seminary and dropped
out of college after a year, freely admits that he shies away from heavy
talk of theology in his sermons
~ Kathy McReynolds, Why Christian Doctrine Matters, Joniandfriends.org
--
//Sr. Eveline
SteveMR200
<HVdYm.64105$ze1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>:
>On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 07:35:02 -0800, SteveMR200 wrote in message:
><gkspi5llsle5cea9s...@4ax.com>:
>
>> The pastor leaned his head back on the sofa, staring
>> up at the ceiling. Exhaustion had definitely set
>> in. "Topics?"
>>
>> "Adultery, stealing, gossip--"
>>
>> "No. We seldom talk about those things."
>>
>> --Bill Myers (1953- )
>> _Angel Of Wrath_ [2009], Chapter 12
>______________________________________
>
>Some seeker-friendly churches do indeed welcome the less
>doctrinally-driven atmosphere because it does help increase numbers. For
>instance, the non-denominational. Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas,lead
>by Joel Osteen packs them in 16,000 at a time. The church has no visible
>symbols of religion. Instead, it proudly displays signs which points to
>its cafe with Internet access and 32 video game kiosks.
>To keep those numbers, Osteen, who did not go to seminary and dropped
>out of college after a year, freely admits that he shies away from heavy
>talk of theology in his sermons
>~ Kathy McReynolds, Why Christian Doctrine Matters, Joniandfriends.org
Remember when the word "hell" used to be considered
a curse word? My younger sister repeated what she
learned from the neighborhood boys and got her
tongue swabbed with a bar of soap--just for
saying "hell". Oh, how times have changed!
These days the word has permeated our culture.
"Hell" is hardly considered a curse word or even
a "bad" word, and it has steadily become part of
our cultural slang, a figure of speech that has
crept into our everyday vocabulary.
Television and movies have inundated us with the
use of the word so that we hardly notice when
it's being used. How many times have you heard
a character say, "Go to hell" or "Hell, no!", or
someone casually use a phrase like "hot as hell,"
in every discussion?
Since the significance of the word has been
culturally watered down, it would be reassuring to
find the true definition, impact, and consequences
of hell preached from our nation's pulpits. But the
hellfire and brimstone message of Dante's _Inferno_
that was taught years ago in various denominations
is no longer a popular subject with modern-day
"religiously correct" churches.
In fact, hell is considered "too negative" for most
preachers, who are afraid of scaring away their
growing congregations. The idea that a person could
actually spend eternity in hell seems to have been
deleted from the church, along with moral absolutes.
--Holly McClure
(In Bill Wiese's _23 Minutes In Hell_ [2006], "Foreword")
--
Steve
SteveMR200
<2pt4j51dot529t5ue...@4ax.com>:
>Since the significance of the word has been
>culturally watered down, it would be reassuring to
>find the true definition, impact, and consequences
>of hell preached from our nation's pulpits. But the
>hellfire and brimstone message of Dante's _Inferno_
>that was taught years ago in various denominations
>is no longer a popular subject with modern-day
>"religiously correct" churches.
> --Holly McClure
> (In Bill Wiese's _23 Minutes In Hell_ [2006], "Foreword")
When we preach on hell, we might at least do it with
tears in our eyes.
--Dwight L. Moody (1837-1899)
--
Steve
SteveMR200
<gkspi5llsle5cea9s...@4ax.com>:
>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:22:53 -0800 (PST), maigemu wrote in message:
><6e591035-5c32-421d...@g7g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>:
>
>>It is not the business of the church to adapt Christ to men, but men
>>to Christ. -- Dorothy Sayers
>
>
>[Charlie] turned back to the conversation and asked
>Thomas, "These topics, are they ones you've
>addressed from the pulpit?"
>
>The pastor leaned his head back on the sofa, staring
>up at the ceiling. Exhaustion had definitely set
>in. "Topics?"
>
>"Adultery, stealing, gossip--"
>
>"No. We seldom talk about those things."
>
>"Or anything else of relevance," Lisa quipped from
>the hearth. Like her brother, she was also on edge,
>something about nearly getting killed and having her
>rental car blown up from under her.
>
>Still staring at the ceiling, Thomas replied, "My
>sister thinks I'm not judgmental enough in my
>sermons."
>
>"Sermons?" Lisa said. "I thought they were comedy
>routines."
> --Bill Myers (1953- )
> _Angel Of Wrath_ [2009], Chapter 12
It is a church without preaching, and without
prayer.
At its Sunday morning services there is something
spiritual, all right, but it doesn't have to do
with Allah, or Buddha, or God.
Instead, it comes from music, from passionate
renditions of works composed by Brahms and Bach
and, of course, Beethoven -- for whom the church
is named.
[...]
Michaelis and his wife, Pamela, rarely miss a
Sunday. Not long ago they stood chatting with
friends in the warehouse, waiting for the
performance-service to begin. A masseuse gave
free massages in the corner while baristas
served lattes at an espresso bar.
When the emcee, David Felberg, took the stage, the
crowd of 100 or so took their seats. First on the
menu this morning, Felberg said, was Polka Dot Dot
Dot, a band from Olympia, Wash.
With artsy haircuts, tattoos and piercings, the band
looked more suited for a punk rock show than a
church service. But their set of quiet songs with
pretty harmonies had everyone in the audience
nodding along. When they finished, the crowd
clapped and hooted.
"I felt that people's hearts were really wide open,"
said a band member who goes by the name Onyx of
Olympia. "It's the kind of church that I can really
get down with."
Next up was a local poet, Demetria Martinez. The
audience hung on her spare verse, which alluded to
New Mexico's landscape and to its history of Spanish
colonization.
The reading was a spiritual experience for Martinez,
she said later. "Poetry is how I pray," said
Martinez, 49. "And reading it is ceremony and
ritual. It's communion."
--Kate Linthicum, L.A. Times Staff Writer
_Los Angeles Times_ [December 27, 2009],
"Paying Homage To Music At The Church Of Beethoven"
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-hometown-albuquerque27-2009dec27,0,7768977.story
--
Steve