Counting sheep
Frank Bohan
Can anyone settle an argument about a method of counting sheep, used by
shepherds, possibly in Wales or Northumerland. The sequence starts "Hythera,
tythera...." or something like that. Does anyone know either the full
sequence, or the origins? Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
Obquotes:
Hardly a pure science, history is closer to animal husbandry than it
is to mathematics, in that it involves selective breeding. The
principal difference between the husbandryman and the historian is
that the former breeds sheep or cows or such, and the latter breeds
(assumed) facts. The husbandryman uses his skills to enrich the
future; the historian uses his to enrich the past. Both are usually
up to their ankles in bullshit. -- Tom Robbins
I do not fear an army of lions, if they are led by a lamb. I do
fear an army of sheep, if they are led by a lion.
-- Alexander the Great
She was now working with fourteen pairs at once, and Alice couldn't
help looking at her in great astonishment. "How can she knit with so
many?" the puzzled child thought to herself. "She gets more and more
like a porcupine every minute!" "Can you row?" the Sheep asked,
handing her a pair of knitting needles as she spoke.
-- Lewis Carroll (Through the Looking-Glass)
Frank B
Andrea J Chee
writes
>
>Can anyone settle an argument about a method of counting sheep, used by
>shepherds, possibly in Wales or Northumerland. The sequence starts "Hythera,
>tythera...." or something like that. Does anyone know either the full
>sequence, or the origins? Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
Possibly of Celtic origin, known to be used by shepherds in the North of
England (I think this is called Brythonic): yan, tan, tethera, pethera,
pimp, sethera, methera, hovera, covera, dik. (1-10)
Yorkshire version: yan, tan, tethera, pethera, pimp, saffra, laffra,
ofra, doffra, dix, ena dix, tena dix, tethera dix, pethera dix, bumpit,
ena bumpit, tena bumpit, tethera bumpit, pethera bumpit, siggit. (1-20)
This version I believe is the Welsh one, also of Celtic origin: yan,
tan, tethera, pethera, pimp, sethera, lethera, hothera, dothera, dick,
yan-a-dick, tan-a-dick, tethera-dick, pethera-dick, bumpit, yan-a-
bumpit, tan-a-bumpit, tethera-bumpit, pethera-bumpit, jiggit. (1-20)
One to ten in the Welsh language proper is: un, dau, tri, pedwar, pump,
chwech, saith, wyth, naw, deg.
- ANDREA
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Graham J Weeks
Frank Bohan wrote:
> Can anyone settle an argument about a method of counting sheep, used by
> shepherds, possibly in Wales or Northumerland. The sequence starts "Hythera,
> tythera...." or something like that. Does anyone know either the full
> sequence, or the origins? Zzzzzzzzzzzz.
>
Your query sent me searching my Yorkshire Dialect library with two annual
publications a year back to 1966 plus other Yorkshire books.
The Yorkshire Yammer by Peter Wrught, 1977, tells me that there were several
local versions of Celtic sheep-scoring numerals. Wright gives four versions
from Yorkshire and one from Cumbria.
1 2 3 4 5
Airedale era tera tethera fethera pimps
Swaledale yan tean ethera methera mick
Nidderdale yehn tehn edura pedura pips
Ribblehead yah twa ttethera methera pimp
Keswick yan twan tether mether pimp
He says the Ribblehead count went up to 49, cracker buck. The others stopped at
20.
ObQuote from the same source.
Umpteen is a gert lot.
--
Graham J Weeks
http://www.weeks-g.dircon.co.uk/ My homepage of quotations
http://www.grace.org.uk/churches/ealing.html Our church
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/Christiansquoting Daily quotes
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aurator
>
> Frank Bohan wrote:
>
> > Can anyone settle an argument about a method of counting sheep, used by
> > shepherds, possibly in Wales or Northumerland. The sequence starts "Hythera,
We count sheep thisaway downunder:
63, 64, 65, 66, hello darling, 67, 68,
Ha ha.
obquote
One is never far from wealth and all it's masks when one deals with
Power. - Princess Irulan.
B. R. Barnfield
Graham J Weeks <wee...@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:389DD518...@dircon.co.uk...
>
> Your query sent me searching my Yorkshire Dialect library with two annual
> publications a year back to 1966 plus other Yorkshire books.
> The Yorkshire Yammer by Peter Wrught, 1977, tells me that there were
several
> local versions of Celtic sheep-scoring numerals. Wright gives four
versions
> from Yorkshire and one from Cumbria.
> 1 2 3 4 5
> Airedale era tera tethera fethera pimps
> Swaledale yan tean ethera methera mick
> Nidderdale yehn tehn edura pedura pips
> Ribblehead yah twa ttethera methera pimp
> Keswick yan twan tether mether pimp
Less authoritatively Jake Thackray, a lugubrious Yorkshire singer-songwriter
[fl. 1970s] who made Buster Keaton look over-emotional, wrote a song
incorporating this counting-system into the chorus. I think he claimed it
for Swaledale. His version went, approximately and phonetically, to twenty:
Yan chan tether mether pit
Ayza sayza acka conta dick
Yanna-dick channa-dick tether-dick methera-dick bumpit
Yanna-bum channa-bum tether-bum methera-bum jiggit
APONA, Does anyone remember his 'Bantam Cock'?
B
B. R. Barnfield
APONA, Does anyone remember 'Isobel Makes Love Upon National Monuments' or
'My Bantam Cock'? ....
He was a fine upstanding bantam cock
So brisk and stiff and spry,
With a springy step and a jaunty plume
And a purposeful look in his eye.
In his little black laughing eye there was...
I took him to the coop and introduced him to
Me seventeen wild eyed hens.
He upped and he tupped as a hero tups
He bowed to them all and then
He upped and he tupped 'em all again...
And then upon the peace of me ducks and me geese
He rudely did intrude.
With a glazed eye and open mouth
They bore him with fortitude,
And a little bit of gratitude...
He jumped me giggling guinea fowl
He thrust his attentions upon
Me twenty hysterical turkeys and
A visiting migrant swan.
And the bantam thundered on...
He ravaged me fan tailed pigeon, and
Me lily white columbine.
And as I was locking up me budgerigar
He jumped me parrot from behind -
Who was sitting on me shoulder at the time...
Then all of a sudden with a gasp and a wheeze
He clasped his wings to his head,
Lay flat on the ground with his feet in the air
Me bantam cock lay dead.
And the vultures circled overhead they did...
What a noble bird, what a champion cock
What a way to live and to die.
I was digging him a grave to save his bones
From the hungry buzzards in the sky,
When the bantam opened up a sly little eye...
He gave me a wink and a terrible grin
The way that rapists do.
He said you see them big daft buggers up there?
They'll be down in a minute or two.
They'll be down in a minute or two.
B
B
Frank Bohan
query.
Obquotes:
Mary had a little lamb,
But her sister came to grief.
She lived when meat was rationed
And only had corned beef.
Mary had a little lamb,
Her father shot it dead.
Now Mary takes the lamb to school
Between two hunks of bread.
Mary had a little bear
To which she was so kind
And everywhere that Mary went
You saw her bear behind.
===
Frank B
Graham J Weeks
Frank Bohan wrote:
> Thanks for all the erudite answers (especially the two Kiwi inputs) to my
> query.
>
> Obquotes:
>
> snip
>
> Mary had a little bear
> To which she was so kind
> And everywhere that Mary went
> You saw her bear behind.
There is another verse which is particularly illustrative of the northern u
vowel in England, especially that of Yorkshire. It just will not come
across when I merely write it.
Mary had a little lamb.
Its foot was black as soot.
And into Mary's bread and jam,
His sooy foot he put.
NB The last line has three identical deep "u"s, as in mucky duck.
yoda...@my-deja.com
The doctor was surprised!
But when Old MacDonald had a *farm*,
It really popped his eyes!
YM
In article <38A338F9...@dircon.co.uk>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
B. R. Barnfield
Frank Bohan <fra...@globalnet.co.uk>, in message news:87v9g7$2hs$3...@gxsn.com
started something ...
> Obquotes:
>
> Mary had a little lamb,
> But her sister came to grief.
Mary had a little lamb.
She also had a duck.
She put them on the mantelpiece,
and hoped they wouldn't fall off.
Andrea J Chee
<fiel...@btinternet.com> writes
>
>Mary had a little lamb.
>She also had a duck.
>She put them on the mantelpiece,
>and hoped they wouldn't fall off.
Mary had a little sheep,
and with that sheep she went to sleep.
The sheep turned out to be a ram,
and Mary had a little lamb.
...and no, I haven't the foggiest where that comes from!
Vinny
His foot was full of soot.
And everywhere that Mary went,
His sooty foot he put.
... and no I can't say it three times fast.
Vinny
Daniel P. B. Smith
> >>She also had a duck.
> >>She put them on the mantelpiece,
> >>and hoped they wouldn't fall off.
Ah, takes me back to elementary-school days...
Mary had a little lamb,
A little pork, a little jam,
A little bread, a little toast,
Some pickle and a great big roast,
An ice-cream soda topped with fizz,
And Oh! how sick our Mary is.
And now... a little quiz:
For ten points: recite the SECOND stanza, being careful to follow the
rules of meter and rhyme.
For twenty points: give the CORRECT title. (It is NOT "Mary Had A
Little Lamb."
For thirty points: name the author. (It is NOT anonymous).
For forty points: How many stanzas are there _after_ the second? Recite
them...
--
Daniel P. B. Smith
current email address: dpbs...@bellatlantic.net
"Lifetime forwarding address:" dpbs...@alum.mit.edu
Daniel P. B. Smith
> And everywhere that Mary went,
> His sooty foot he put.
Martin Gardner's "Best Remembered Poems" gives a few more:
Mary had a little lamb,
'Twas subject to the gout
At last she got disgusted
And put it up the spout.
--1872, Godey's Lady's Book
Mary had a little lamb,
She put it on the shelf;
And every time it wagged its tail
It spanked its little self.
Mary had a little lamb,
With green peas on the side,
And when her escort saw the check,
The poor boob nearly died.
Mary had a little watch,
She swallowed it one day,
The doctor gave her castor oil
To pass the time away.