What is this? - Strange Initiator?
CF
news:alZz9.3119$V16.11652@rwcrnsc54:
Likely a combustion starter for a high horsepower engine. Most which
were/are used for airplanes were electrically triggered by the pilot. Some
1/4 mile rails and the odd swamp buggy include a breach for combustion
starting. Low tech, but saves the weight of battery/starting motor and
James A. Finley
"CF" <Cu...@attbi.com> wrote in message
news:Xns92C5BD3178E...@216.148.227.77...
Also used to start turbine engines.
Harry Conover
If you're thinking about things like the starter cartridge on the
B-17, there were strictly emergency start devices and were fired
mechanically, not electrically. (Think about it -- If you had
electrical power available your wouldn't need to use a starter
cartridge.)
For those not old enough to remember them, starter cartridges were
about the size and appearance of an extended length 4-gauge shotgun
shell, and evidently contained a gas generation charge (similar to
that used in automobile airbags). They were vented into engine
cylinder 1 (IIRC), and transfered enough energy to the piston to crank
the engine through about 5-revs which was hopefully sufficient to
start it.
(Does anyone actually know what pyro comp starter cartridges actually
used?)
There is a scene realistically depicting these in use in the movie
"Flight of the Phoenix".
I have a little difficulty picturing starter cartridge being used on
anything roughly the scale of a "swamp buggy" or a turbine engine, but
then nothing is impossible.
Harry C.
Mike Poulton
<snip>
> anything roughly the scale of a "swamp buggy" or a turbine engine, but
> then nothing is impossible.
These would be the big swamp buggies with giant engines used for insane
redneck drag racing. Quite a sight. Horsepower ranges from several
hundred to several thousand. The turbine starters are fundamentally
different. Instead of providing a sudden blast of high pressure gas to
crank a piston engine, they burn for several seconds and release hot gas a
high velocity directly into the turbine section to spin it up to idle
speed. They are basically low-performance solid rocket engines. Quite a
few military planes had provisions for them so they could start almost
instantly and without an external GPU in emergency situations. Typically,
the engine had a magazine that held several cartriges and loaded and
ejected them as needed so multiple starts would be possible without
servicing the aircraft.
--
Mike Poulton
MTP Technologies
Live free or die! http://www.indefenseoffreedom.org/
Unless the government has a really excellent reason, anyone should be
allowed to possess, own, purchase, store, use, publish, say, or do
anything that does not cause demonstrable harm to another person without
that person's consent. "To fight terrorism" in the vague sense is not
even close to sufficient reason.
CF
news:7ce4e226.02120...@posting.google.com:
<snip>
> If you're thinking about things like the starter cartridge on the
> B-17, there were strictly emergency start devices and were fired
> mechanically, not electrically.
<snip>
> I have a little difficulty picturing starter cartridge being used on
> anything roughly the scale of a "swamp buggy" or a turbine engine, but
> then nothing is impossible.
>
> Harry C.
AKA the Coffman Starter, combustion starters are mentioned here:
http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/aircraft/WWII/seafire/sea-info/sea_info.htm
http://www.cavalrypilot.com/fm1-506/ch8.htm
http://www.unlimitedexcitement.com/Griffon%20Budweiser/Griffon%20Engine.htm
CF
donald j haarmann
> If you're thinking about things like the starter cartridge on the
> B-17, there were strictly emergency start devices and were fired
> mechanically, not electrically. (Think about it -- If you had
> electrical power available your wouldn't need to use a starter
> cartridge.)
[snip]
EDITED /djh/
From: j...@ihgp1.ih.lucent.com (-Baugher,J.F.)
Subject: Bomber Series--Martin B-57 Canberra (4 of 11)
Date: 1997/01/27
Message-ID: <E4oHJ...@ranger.daytonoh.ncr.com>
sender: mili...@ranger.daytonoh.ncr.com (Sci.military Login)
organization: Lucent Technologies
newsgroups: sci.military.moderated
summary: B-57B
There were important changes to the starter system, with the
manually-operated cartridge of the RB-57A being replaced by one that
was electrically-ignited. A pyrotechnic cartridge was loaded into a
breech in the center of the engine air intake. When ignited, the
cartridge drove a starter turbine which brought the engine up to a
self-sustaining rpm via a clutch system. This eliminated the need for
heavy and bulky ground starting units, but the starter cartridge
spewed out a characteristic dense cloud of choking black smoke, which
was often mistaken by inexperienced ground crews for an engine fire.
------------------
EDITED /djh/
From: Joseph.F...@att.com (Joseph.F...@att.com)
Subject: Bomber Series--Boeing B-52 Stratofortress (22 of 24)
Newsgroups: sci.military.moderated
Date: 1996/05/20
Starting in January 1963, a pair of cartridge starters were installed
in every B-52, in an attempt to make it possible to start the engines
faster and get the Stratofortress off the ground quicker in the event
of a crisis. In addition, the addition of cartridges would, it was
hoped, allow dispersed or post-strike B-52s to get off the ground from
airfields that lacked electrical power carts and other ground support
equipment. The installation of this equipment reduced the reaction
time by about two minutes. The Air Force was still not satisfied with
the speed with which its B-52 force could get off the ground, and in
1974 they initiated project known as *Quick Start* was instituted in
which every engine on the B-52G and H models was provided with a
cartridge starter. This permitted instantaneous ignition of all eight
engines and greatly reduce the amount of time required before the
aircraft could get rolling.
-----------------
donald j haarmann - colophon