riot grrrls info
a_l...@cc.colorado.edu
this thing out and finally I can send a message on my own (thanks Denise for
letting me ride piggy back- and I found the book). I need help finding stuff
to read on the riot grrrls, in general or any of the bands who are included in
that group. anything would be helpful, but soon is the most helpful.
finished with business. i am glad to be a part of the team here at alt.punk.
I was reading some of the stuff earlier and I have a few I would like to reply
to when I get the chance.
thanks in advance for anyone who can help.
pee...@nwu.edu
do u even understand wut riot grrrls are? it doesn't sound like it. it
is *definately* more then "a group," but since the entire concept has to
do with girlie bands, and they are so new, innovative, and cool, maybe u
could be a riot grrrlie too!!!! wow weeeeee....teeheehee
byebye
love, me
Damien Kick
>> I need help finding
>> stuff to read on the riot grrrls, in general or any of the bands who
>> are included in that group. anything would be helpful, but soon is the
>> most helpful.
In article <pee-ras-1011...@all165032.res-hall.nwu.edu>,
<pee...@nwu.edu> wrote:
>do u even understand wut riot grrrls are? it doesn't sound like it. it
>is *definately* more then "a group," but since the entire concept has to
>do with girlie bands, and they are so new, innovative, and cool, maybe u
>could be a riot grrrlie too!!!! wow weeeeee....teeheehee
See those people standing over there? That _group_ of people? That
group of grrrls who call themselves riot? That there is a group of
riot grrrls. See those jocks standing over there? That group of
jocks? That there is a group of jocks.
Do you understand that concept of the word group yet? A collection
of individuals who share some trait in common: in this case, they
call themselves riot grrrls. Would you that s/he (can't guess the
gender from the handle) used the word genre instead?
Hush now. Easy. Put the gun down. Easy. Didn't mean anything by
it. Shhh. It's okay. Put the gun down.
Actually, how many bands call themselves riot grrrls, anyway? I
mean, just because a band has girls in it doesn't mean they identify
themselves with the whole riot grrrl thing. The only band that I can
think of, off the top of my head, who have used the term riot grrrl,
as opposed to its being used by others to describe them, is Bikini
Kill. Am I wrong about this?
>> i am glad to be a part of the team here at alt.punk.
Well, we're glad to have ya'. Here's your desk. I'll help you get
situated in the morning. Welcome aboard. Just remember to duck
after each and every post, no matter how benign you might think it
is, 'cause threads have been known to spontaneously combust into
raging flames.
usenet: living up to the Platonic view of democracy
--
[] Damien Kick
[] Marquette University
[] Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
pee...@nwu.edu
(Damien Kick) wrote:
ok, little damien, maybe u should reread the text. S/he said, "any of the
*bands* who are included in that group." then, read your cute little
statement, "how many band call themselves riot grrrls anyway?"
hmm,interesting. kinda contrasting.
and YES, u are wrong, BK is one of those many bands that DOES NOT want to
be considered a riot grrrl band.
as they have said, "...like no matter what we say or do there continues to
be this media created idea of 'bikini kill/riot girl' that has little or
nothing to do with our own ideas and efforts..."
anyway the entire thing was a series of sarcastic remarks...
and btw, if it scares ya a little im originally from racine, wi, and
marquette is only a few miles away (ive got my gun) teeheeheee.
bye bye
Damien Kick
<pee...@nwu.edu> wrote:
>and YES, u are wrong, BK is one of those many bands that DOES NOT want to
>be considered a riot grrrl band.
You have me kind of flat footed on that one. Okay, just who/what
started the riot grrrl thing? If I could find that issue of Off Our
Backs, I could've swore that Kathleen talked about that thing in an
interview. Been a while since I read it.... can't remember too many
particulars. Could well be I'm remembering it wrong. Outside help,
anyone? (Impartial arbitrator, you know.... )
However, regardless of who/what_bands call themselves riot grrrls, I
still believe that there is some group of riot grrrls out there.
Maybe I'm wrong on the who is and who isn't.... But you show me more
than one person who calls herself a riot grrrl and I'll tell you that
you've got a group of riot grrrls on your hands. And I still think
that the original post was asking for sources of genuine information
on riot grrrls.... not any one particualr riot grrrl, but the whole
group of them; what they share in common, points of disagreement, why
someone would call herself a riot grrrl, etc. Or do you think there
is only one person who calls herself a riot grrrl? Or do you think
there are no people (none at all) who call themselves riot grrrls?
Or are you just super pissed that somebody would want reliable
information (assuming it exists, of course) on this whole 'riot grrrl
thing' anyway and decided that the shit had to hit the fan when
somebody had the gall to ask a question about it?
>and btw, if it scares ya a little im originally from racine, wi, and
>marquette is only a few miles away (ive got my gun) teeheeheee.
[shrug]. I suppose it scares me a little, yeah. I'm not too fond of
Racine and it's so damn close! Pig ignorant hicks for miles and
miles. Gives me the creeps. I'm glad to hear you have a gun,
though. Does it make you feel more secure? Do ya' think you could
give as good as you got if ever you ran into a 4x4 pickup truck
filled with gun swingin' rednecks? It's a nice feeling to not have
to worry about getting the shit kicked out of you by a bunch of
assholes who want to rub out stuff they think is wrong and/or
disagree with, isn't it?
teeheehee.... whatever
pee...@nwu.edu
once again i feel the need to waste my time
**this may be a little incoherent, it 5:00 a.m.**
do you even read wut u post?
u say these things that entirely contradict one another
first, i suggest u ***reread your posts***
second, if you are insinuating that i subscribe to any/all characteristics
encompassed by a red neck or wutever,that would be virtually impossible
i think the color of my skin (along with, of course, my beliefs) would
vouch for that
third, not like marquette is a great school or anything
if ya dont like the area,there are many other mediocore schools to attend
forth, i dont own a gun
once again, u must reread your post
it was a response to your words
(sheesh)
and fifth, back to the riot grrrl thing
the quote i posted is *directly* from a BK cd
quite accurate i pressume
um, kathleen surely is entitled to separate beliefs from the rest of the band.
at least pick up a cd/literature or something before u become the
spokesman for BK.
this is why i took a direct quote, i didnt want to assume/project my
interpretation, etc
and pls go back, reread...
are you familiar w/ riot grrrls at all? (wait, u must be, you responded in
quite the know-it-all manner)
the media coverage of riot grrrls basically sucks(for lack of a better term)
the 'undergroud scene' is quite different then wut u read in, RS, spin, sassy
the concept has become more of feminist movement
how it originated is not really the issue
the media is so quick to name any girl band as a riot grrrl band (which is
what the original 'poster' seemed to be doing-- that is why i commented on
the whole 'group' thing)
the issue is THE MOVEMENT, the ideas, the progression, not whether
courtney love is playing "riot grrrlie music"
the media has recreated the entire concept
(and, i *love* courtney, not a flame)
personally (remember personally) i look at it as a feminist movement
otherwise, the media labels girl bands as riot grrrl bands
girl bands should be bands, period
try the more zinish approach to the whole thing
its more personal, more real
*dont* get all your info from the media
(then reread your posts---that is a must)
then get back to me...
oh yea, you lost me with the whole > Do ya' think you could
> > give as good as you got if ever you ran into a 4x4 pickup truck
> > filled with gun swingin' rednecks? It's a nice feeling to not have
> > to worry about getting the shit kicked out of you by a bunch of
> > assholes who want to rub out stuff they think is wrong and/or
> > disagree with, isn't it?
(or else i just got too bored, i dunno)
Damien Kick
MU doesn't have _Off_Our_Backs_ in its library's collection; however,
UW-Milwaukee has just about every issue since 1970---no surprise that
UW-M has this 'ultra-feminist' periodical while MU doesn't. So as
soon as I can get over to the UW-Milwaukee library to photocopy the
issue with the interview with Kathleen Hanna, I'll be sure to run
right to the closet terminal and type in a copy of the interview....
just because I'm a geek with no life who takes his flame wars
seriously.
But, piss fights aside, to a_l...@cc.colorado.edu, the netizen who
asked the original question about where to find information on the
whole riot grrrl question, this interview is a decent place to start,
seeing as how it is coming right from the horse's orfice.
Until I can get my hands on the article, I suppose I'll have to spend
my time (not doing homework or research a topic for a class, of
course) reading and re-reading my articles, looking for the glaring
contradictions in ideas like:
There is a riot grrrl movement and, even though it has been
misrepresented in the 'popular' media, and even though the term riot
grrrl is used to describe bands that have nothing to do with the
Riot Grrrl movement simply because there are 'feminist women' in the
bands, there are, indeed, some women out there who are involved in
the Riot Grrrl movement and some of them do happen to be in bands.
I think that Kathleen Hanna was/is involved in the Riot Grrrl
movement, as opposed to being misrepresented as such, despite the
fact that Kathleen continues to remind people that Bikini Kill is
not the same thing as Riot Grrrl, because there are lots of other
people involved in the movement who aren't in Bikini Kill nor do
they always agree with BK, but I could be wrong because it's been a
while since I read the article in _Off_Our_Backs_.
(Paraphrash, of course).
Would anybody else care to coment on this? Come on, I know you're
all waiting to throw your $.02 down on the table. I want somebody
else, other than pee-ras, to tell me if I'm contradicting myself....
an (up until the point when s/he comments) impartial observer of this
thread. And then, after everybody has placed their bets, we'll lay
our cards on the table and someone will walk away with....
[drum roll]
.... a fantasy threesome date with both myself and pee-ras!
[clapping] [cheering]. You'll get all the warmth, all the passion,
and all the best of Wisconsin packed into a fun filled night with
Damien and pee-ras. You'll even get to shoot pee-ras' gun at her
backyard shooting range in Racine, WI! Don't hesitate! Place your
bets now.
The game just ain't no fun with only two players.
Desperately seeking Kathleen [chuckle] [snarf]
Sam Adams
> There is a riot grrrl movement and, even though it has been
> misrepresented in the 'popular' media, and even though the term riot
> grrrl is used to describe bands that have nothing to do with the
> Riot Grrrl movement simply because there are 'feminist women' in the
> bands, there are, indeed, some women out there who are involved in
> the Riot Grrrl movement and some of them do happen to be in bands.
> I think that Kathleen Hanna was/is involved in the Riot Grrrl
> movement, as opposed to being misrepresented as such, despite the
> fact that Kathleen continues to remind people that Bikini Kill is
> not the same thing as Riot Grrrl, because there are lots of other
> people involved in the movement who aren't in Bikini Kill nor do
> they always agree with BK, but I could be wrong because it's been a
> while since I read the article in _Off_Our_Backs_.
Despised as I am on this newsgroup ever since I dared to support
Kathleen's desire for some form of security at BK concerts, I would like
to contribute this to the discussion: In the last two BK concerts I've
been to, Kathleen refused to identify herself as a Riot Grrrl when
prompted to by the audience. At one of the concerts, she "took the fifth"
when asked whether she was a Riot Grrrl, and at the other she replied that
she was a "Riot *Lady*".:) My impression is that at one time she was
willing to be identified with the "Riot Grrrl" movement but has since
grown disaffected with the term since it has been rendered meaningless to
many by media overuse. That said, I've seen quite a few girls running
around recently with "Rebel Grrrl" written on their T-shirts or
"Grrrl-love" scrawled on their bodies so clearly the term is still
meaningful to somebody. Damien sounds right to me in his defense of the
continued existence of "Riot Grrrls" for some; however, Pee-ras'
resentment of the person who originally asked the question is
understandable given the exploitation of "girl" culture by curious
outsiders.
Miriam
Miriam Fried
sad...@cc.swarthmore.edu (Sam Adams) wrote:
> Despised as I am on this newsgroup ever since I dared to support
> Kathleen's desire for some form of security at BK concerts, I would like
> to contribute this to the discussion: In the last two BK concerts I've
> been to, Kathleen refused to identify herself as a Riot Grrrl when
> prompted to by the audience. At one of the concerts, she "took the fifth"
> when asked whether she was a Riot Grrrl, and at the other she replied that
> she was a "Riot *Lady*".:) My impression is that at one time she was
> willing to be identified with the "Riot Grrrl" movement but has since
> grown disaffected with the term since it has been rendered meaningless to
> many by media overuse. That said, I've seen quite a few girls running
> around recently with "Rebel Grrrl" written on their T-shirts or
> "Grrrl-love" scrawled on their bodies so clearly the term is still
> meaningful to somebody. Damien sounds right to me in his defense of the
> continued existence of "Riot Grrrls" for some; however, Pee-ras'
> resentment of the person who originally asked the question is
> understandable given the exploitation of "girl" culture by curious
> outsiders.
> Miriam
Oops...please note that this message was not written by Sam Adams. I was
posting on a friend's account.
Miriam
pee...@nwu.edu
sad...@cc.swarthmore.edu (miriam) wrote:
My impression is that at one time she was
> willing to be identified with the "Riot Grrrl" movement but has since
> grown disaffected with the term since it has been rendered meaningless to
> many by media overuse. That said, I've seen quite a few girls running
> around recently with "Rebel Grrrl" written on their T-shirts or
> "Grrrl-love" scrawled on their bodies so clearly the term is still
> meaningful to somebody. Damien sounds right to me in his defense of the
> continued existence of "Riot Grrrls" for some; however, Pee-ras'
> resentment of the person who originally asked the question is
> understandable given the exploitation of "girl" culture by curious
> outsiders.
> Miriam
yeah, thanx miriam, im glad u see my point.
im also glad u decided to contribute
i dont think i said that riot grrrls dont exist, if i was to label myself,
it would be along the 'riot grrrl' lines...
i am a young feminist
it is somthing that i grew up with(raised by an independent single mother)
anyway, the struggle has *always* been *so* important to me
its *so* hard when u finally identify strongly with something and the
white, homophobic, male-dominated media picks it up and turns it into
something foriegn and wrong
i have been (thankfully) bombarded with girl-positive things since i can
remember
most people are bombarded by the media which is *NOT* girl (woman) positive
you can understand how frustrating it is when someone decides that hole/
veruca salt, etc (substitute any band that has girl members) is really
innovative and labels them something they are not
it may not be a big deal to most but it kinda fucks up all the stuff thats
been instilled in me since i was a little girlie running around in my 6X
sized undies...
damien said something about bands with feminist women being labeled riot
grrrl bands
it is not even that, it has (or at least had) gotten to the point where
everyone with a band and a vagina was a 'guitar totin' riot grrrl'
and really, the best thing for men, women, dogs, cats, whatever, to do is
to get educated on the *STRUGGLE* as opposed to getting caught up in cool,
trendy labels, ya know?
get past the bullshit and down to the core--whats really important
the media fucks over women constantly
twists and grossly contorts anything that is girl-positive
have u read backlash?
most incredible fucking book
its been awhile since i read it but i remember that it was packed with
unbelievable shit
THE GREAT MEDIA LIE
i saw this post under something (alt.music alt.female????) and i really
loved what you had to say...i hope you dont mind that i posted (i couldnt
help it, it is simple and beautiful)
it gives a lot of info...
>
> In article <39qvec$u...@quartz.ucs.ualberta.ca>,
> mmea...@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca (Michelle Meagher) wrote:
>
> > I am working on a project for a class and I want to take a look at riot
> > grrrls as a movement and/or a subculture. Can anyone out there help me
> > out with this? I would love it if anyone could point me in the right
> > direction in terms of fanzines or even mainstream articles in newspapers
> > or magazines.
>
> Ooh, red alert, steer clear of "mainstream articles" about so-called riot
> grrrls. A really good resource if you want to find out Bikini Kill's
> attitude to their coverage by the mainstream press is the lines notes to
> the CD edition of the first two EPs. Of course the liner notes are years
> old by now, but I doubt their distaste for such media has particularly
> abated. (These liner notes deal with a lot of different stuff and are
> really worth checking out) The mainstream music press doesn't have a clue
> what "riot grrrl" originally meant, if anything at all. They think anytime
> there's a girl group, it's a riot grrrl group, which is absurd. Recently
> I've heard Luscious Jackson and Hole referred to as riot grrrl groups, for
> example. Come on. Check out girl zines if you want info on girl bands,
> there are zine addresses all over the newsgroups, on alt.punk for example,
> and frequently zines are around at shows & stuff like that. Try Team
> Dresch's Sisterstrike, for example. But I'm probably telling you stuff you
> already know...
>
> > I am especially curious about the idea of writing things like Slut and
> > Bitch and Tart in marker on the body. Is this purely riot grrrl stuff?
> > Any comments on what it means?
>
> A commentary on the on the patriarchal belief that female identity is, so
> to speak, written on the body, that everything meaningful about women
> consists of their appearance and how their bodies are used. More simply, a
> defiant reappropriation of oppressive terminology.
>
> > I've also noticed that there is a lot of controversy over which bands
> > call themselves riot grrrls and which are called riot grrrls-- by media
> > or by promoters, or whatever. A couple of weeks ago, Fifth Column was in
> > Edmonton, and the posters for the show said they were "riot grrrl rock,"
> > but when they were interviewed by the women's show on the campus radio
> > station, they said they were far too old to be riot grrrls-- they've been
> > together around ten years, I think. Anyways, they scratched out the riot
> > grrrl thing on the posters they came across. I missed the show, put
> > apparently it rocked.
>
> Look, even the groups who were some of the first bearers of the "riot
> grrrl" label no longer want to identify themselves as such. It's such a
> media-appropriated term at this point that it's not meaningful. The girl
> punk scene is getting stronger and stronger but the "riot grrrl" label is
> becoming a thing of the past except for, like, the Time magazine music
> editor who hears the term for the first time and thinks he's the first to
> recognize this cutting edge trend.
> -Miriam
great stuff...
hey, maybe this shit should be taking place in alt.culture.riot grrrls, huh?
no one ever posts there...
Damien Kick
Sam Adams <sad...@cc.swarthmore.edu> wrote:
>Despised as I am on this newsgroup ever since I dared to support
>Kathleen's desire for some form of security at BK concerts, I would like
> [snip] [snip] [snip] Damien sounds right to me in his defense of the
>continued existence of "Riot Grrrls" for some; however, Pee-ras'
>resentment of the person who originally asked the question is
>understandable given the exploitation of "girl" culture by curious
>outsiders.
Thank the gods for outside arbitration.... (I still think there was
no reason to try and rip a_long for asking the question, though).
But all that aside.... CONGRATULATIONS! You've won the grand prize,
a fun filled night on the town with both Pee-ras and Damien where
you'll get to see the finest in cheesehead culture! And don't forget
(how could you?) that you get to shoot Pee-ras' gun in her own
backyard! [clapping] [insane cheering] [jubilation]. Oh lucky day!
Anyway.... maybe I'll still type up that interview from _Off_Our_
Backs_. Just for a_long. Poor a_long, who only wanted legit info on
this whole riot grrrl thing. Didn't go to SPIN. Oh no. Went to
alt.punk and got shot in the head, yet another victim in a senseless
drive-by shooting on the information superhighway. [heavy sigh].
Did you want to exploit "girl" culture, poor a_long, when you asked
for info? Maybe we'll never know.... because now you're dead. Shot
in the head on the usenet. [asks for a moment of silence for a_long].
I want me a peice of that riot psssy! Yessuh!
(Now I _know_ that this tasty bit of sarcasm is going to get me fried
in one of the hottest flame wars I've ever seen. But I'm warning
y'all, if you flame me on this one, I'll repost that _entire_ BK show
review from back in recent alt.punk past. Tremble in fear! (And then
you'll see where I got that phrase, too.))
Dallas254
st92...@dunx1.ocs.drexel.edu (JohnPaul Golaski) writes:
right on!
althea morin
integrity refuses to be associated with anything called "riot grrl" is
that it's just bloody stupid. Anyone with talent and strength of
personality doesn't need to belong to some juvenile proto-feminist
women-in-rock pseudo-organization. They can take on more issues than the
simple chance of their gender, and succeed (or flop) based on merit, not
that gender.
New School
whoi the fuck are you? and what the fuck is this?
look, i am a unique and genuine original from the packaging riot grrrl
from the dc yeah you know the origns. and what the fuck do you think
you are doing? what the fuck is up with this punk net?
listen boy.
you want some genuine real info on rg? the first rule of teh game is that
you don't get to know and that none of you stupid boys are allowed to
talk about it, ok.
man FUCK YOU AND YOUR FUCKING SEXIST FUCKED UP WHITE BOY AGENDA....
I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Rockstar
New School
>
>Damien Kick (kic...@studsys.mscs.mu.edu) wrote:
>
>: There is a riot grrrl movement and,
blah blah blah...
thanks so much, johnpaul for explaining things to another fucked up boy.
it so great that you know so much about how to be a feminist i wish
all the boys i knew were as cool and as understanding as you....
FUCK YOU
rockstar
John D MacLeod
the field: thank you for your warm welcome....
Matt Yuk
guess i don't have anything else to say...this is really funny...i can't
stop laughing...
matt yuk
wait...this is a stupid wozzel joke, right?
Sam Adams
rockstar wrote:
> look, i am a unique and genuine original from the packaging riot grrrl
> from the dc yeah you know the origns. and what the fuck do you think
> you are doing? what the fuck is up with this punk net?
>
Tip No. 1: Anyone who says something like "I am a unique and genuine
original", isn't.
> listen boy.
> you want some genuine real info on rg? the first rule of teh game is that
> you don't get to know and that none of you stupid boys are allowed to
> talk about it, ok.
>
> man FUCK YOU AND YOUR FUCKING SEXIST FUCKED UP WHITE BOY AGENDA....
>
> I HATE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Why don't you keep your sexist and racist bullshit off the net? If you
want to make an *argument* or criticize people for something they actually
*said*, then by all means go ahead. But dismissing people's opinions just
because of esx and race just does not fucking go. By the way, How do you
know Damien is white, anyway? Guess that last name of "Kick" just gives
it away ;) Or do you just assume that anyone who disagrees with you is
white? It must make your petty, ignorant little generalizations easier to
maintain. In bringing up an important subject in so shallow and moronic a
fashion, you must realize that you are only perpetuating the myth that all
feminists, anti-racists, etc. are just a bunch of bitter, man-hating
idiots. Which seems to be true in your case. I would be quite happy to
have you prove me wrong by posting something which actually contains a
well-reasoned rebuttal of someone else's post, rather than a hysterical
and reactionary attack on someone else's gender or race.
Note: This does not mean that I'm not aware of the racism and sexism w/in
the punk scene, or on this newsgroup--and anyone who takes my post as an
excuse to spout some kind of vile garbage will have their ass flamed by me
as quick as I can type.
--Sam
JohnPaul Golaski
: blah blah blah...
: FUCK YOU
: rockstar
i thought i was declared the rockstar?
nice hiding your identity, way to stand up.
i was answering a question.
i suppose you are just trying to be funny and get some huge flame war
started, that's great. glad to know your time is so worthless that you
have nothing constructive to do.
-johnpaul
pee...@nwu.edu
> uh... and you call him sexist???
>
> geez. if that isn't the most sexist thing i've heard all day. hence, the
> reason i despise riot grrrls. dumb.
>
> whatever,
> angela :>
uh, way to generalize
u dont agree w/ one person so u hate everyone!!
hm, that would be stereotyping, prejudice...
i hate people that are trying to gain equal rights for themselves, too.
the nerve of them!!!!
plus, not only do they want equal rights for themselves, but all women!!!
yuck, i love being socially dominated
lets keep it that way!!!
look, i dont agree with her comments either, but be careful not to do
exactly what you critize...
pee...@nwu.edu
that the term white boy agenda (imo) has to do with a male dominiated
society, etc
um. it isnt necessarily a term referring to white males
it is is a term used for the repression of women and minorities by society
(which is male dominated)
am i making sense?
Rico Monge
> uh, way to generalize
> u dont agree w/ one person so u hate everyone!!
> hm, that would be stereotyping, prejudice...
>
> i hate people that are trying to gain equal rights for themselves, too.
> the nerve of them!!!!
> plus, not only do they want equal rights for themselves, but all women!!!
> yuck, i love being socially dominated
> lets keep it that way!!!
>
> look, i dont agree with her comments either, but be careful not to do
> exactly what you critize...
perhaps angela has had the experience that i have had with most riot grrls
that i've met being crazy fucked up bitches. sure, it is a generalization,
and i try to look at the person, not the group, but quite frankly most of
them are just idiots. same thing with skinheads. a lot of them are really
stupid, (whether racist or non-racist), but there are the exceptions (so
don't take this personally Andreas or Mikey or any other skins out there.
--
never mind what's been selling, it's what you're buying. -- fugazi
everyone's got an agenda...and everyone thinks they're right. -- rico
rico
Bob Conrad
New School <rockstar> wrote:
>thanks so much, johnpaul for explaining things to another fucked up boy.
>it so great that you know so much about how to be a feminist i wish
>all the boys i knew were as cool and as understanding as you....
>FUCK YOU
>rockstar
somebody forgot to take their reality enema this a.m.
-bob
Angela Martin
: > uh, way to generalize
: > u dont agree w/ one person so u hate everyone!!
: > hm, that would be stereotyping, prejudice...
: >
: > i hate people that are trying to gain equal rights for themselves, too.
: > the nerve of them!!!!
: > plus, not only do they want equal rights for themselves, but all women!!!
: > yuck, i love being socially dominated
: > lets keep it that way!!!
: >
: > look, i dont agree with her comments either, but be careful not to do
: > exactly what you critize...
: perhaps angela has had the experience that i have had with most riot grrls
: that i've met being crazy fucked up bitches. sure, it is a generalization,
: and i try to look at the person, not the group, but quite frankly most of
: them are just idiots. same thing with skinheads. a lot of them are really
: stupid, (whether racist or non-racist), but there are the exceptions (so
: don't take this personally Andreas or Mikey or any other skins out there.
ok... i usually preach against generalizing and stereotyping and i realize
i did make a huge generalization. but that was just for added effect, to
get a rise out of you...
or something equally dumb to make me look like the good guy (or grrrl)
rico's right... i have had bad experiences with anyone who gives themselves
the title of 'riot grrrl' saying that you are a riot grrrl does *not* mean
that you stand for equality. unless equality in your eyes is power and
domination *over* the male species on this planet.
sure there's nothing wrong with fighting for the equality of both sexes, i
strongly believe in it myself... but riot grrrls preach *empowerment* over
males. what word does empowerment hold... power. not equality, but power.
fuck that.
truthfully i'm not gonna hate everyone who calls herself a riot grrrl, because
there is much to the person than a dumb title. but the implications the title
gives is not a positive one in my eyes, and i will therefore continue to
have a slight prejudice against someone who gives themselves that title.
i do not however, have a personal problem with people for their beliefs. one
of my best friends is a very strong feminist and sure we get into debates all
the time, but then again, she doesn't generalize herself with some dumb title,
and i therefore do not do some sort of prejudging.
if yuo want to fight against prejudice, then do something productive, but
don't form little groups and cliques that are obviously gonna be prejudged
and generalized with some nifty, cute, clever little title.
i think i'll shut up now before i get myself into more trouble.
good night,
angela :>
: --
mlhor...@tiny.computing.csbsju.edu
rockstar writes:
>
[a whole lotta shit I could give a fuck less about]
> seriously,
> love
>
> rockstar
I'd never read a rockstar post before this and can seriously say, to borrow a
phrase from FEAR: I don't care about you. I don't want to scare you and I'm
not trying to piss you off, I just don't care.Now that I know what you and riot
grrrls are about, I'm never going to waste my time reading a post related to
either topic ever again. You post on this group as if people are hanging on
your every word. Why do you think people even give a fuck? Why waste your
time writing your whole fucking life story, as if anyone cared? Just quit
being a part of the newsgroup if you feel threatened or offended by the white
male status quo. If you left, we wouldn't shed any tears. I hope you are not
threatened or offended by this reply, but what did you expect. I just wanted
to add to the "I could care less about rockstar" list. I've got other things
to learn about besides "fuck off" and "you're an idiot" and "here's my life
story-give me credit" posts. Why do you try to provoke people into heated
responses instead of intellectual conversation? It's a no-win situation.
Love you right back, babe
Mike
P.S. I guess I just added fuel to the fire of her attention deficit disorder by
actually responding to one of her posts, but oh well, she opened herself up to
this type of thing when she wrote her last post. I had to get that out of
my system.
Owen Straw
rockstar, SHUT THE FUCK UP about being a non-white dyke. i could tell you
im a gay islamic eskimo and it wouldn't mean a thing. you're on the net.
nobody can judge you by your looks here. only your words. people call you
an idiot because your arguments are dumb. quit pointing the finger about
how we should be striving for equality and it's all us straight white
boys who're creating all the class division.
by identifying yourself with a certain group- your race, your gender,
your sexual preference- you are creating more division and more classism.
if it is equality you strive for, drop all the titles and just be a person.
owen
nikolo...@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
From: nikolo...@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
Newsgroups: alt.punk
Subject: Re: this is me, rockstar, read!!
Message-ID: <1994Dec13.100101.1@tnclus>
Date: 13 Dec 94 10:01:01 EET
References: <39rcvq$r...@lace.Colorado.EDU> <1994Nov21.1...@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover <3b8bv1$l...@silver.scs.unr.edu> <1994Nov28.172317.22539@ne <st003440-051...@cluster-155.cluster.brown.edu> <1994Dec9.1...@newsserver.rrzn.uni <3ci2hj$o...@chaos.dac.neu.edu>
Organization: Nokia Telecommunications.
Lines: 69
In article <3ci2hj$o...@chaos.dac.neu.edu>, svys...@lynx.dac.neu.edu (Stanislav Vysotsky) writes:
> -hannover.de> <1994Dec11.173454.1@tnclus>:
>
> nikolo...@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi wrote:
> : In article <1994Dec9.1...@newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de>, rockstar writes:
>
>
> You're not real? Are you an artificial intelligence posing as a punk?
:) :)
Well, at least you took it lightly
> :-) Newsgroups are just as much a part of the REAL world as your flesh
> and blood, and just because it isn't a physical plane in which we exist
> doesn't mean that it should be taken lightly. Remember, we're all
> people behind these keyboards and monitors. Or is this all a figment of
> our collective punk imagination? :-)
The good thing is that you both made your point and made me laugh!
I wish more people did that...
Back to our programme now...
Maybe you are real, maybe even *I* am real but rockstar isn't! Hold on
people! Before I get anymore flames, I am asking all the people that
read alt.punk.straightedge (apart from alt.punk) to go back about a month
and try to remember a couple of really idiotic posts. One was from
"somebody" who was pretending to be really racist, sexist, and over
the top homophobic. The other one was a reply to the previous and that
"other" somebody was the exact oppossite : non-racist non-sexist and on
top of all that s(he) claimed to be non-white and a dyke (her/his own
words). These 2 posters were anonymous and they both posted from the *same*
server in the university of Hannover. Rockstar is posting from the exact
same location. Yea, (as Nesta pointed out) maybe s(he) only using the
site for posting and s(he) is American. I don't really know.
What I'll try to do is find the posts I mentioned about, in alt.punk.sXe
(although I doubt that I'll find them cause my server doesn't keep posts for
so long) and post them over here so that people can see why I think that all of
them (including the ones posted over here) are from "rockstar" and that its
not worth replying cause s(he)'s FAKE! Nevertheless, I think that
TIGGER's reply was an excellent piece to read!
Yannis
>
> @utonomy, peace, equality,
>
> St@n
>
> "punk was once an alternative to years of crap" -CR@SS
>
>
--
________/________/________/________/________/________/________/________/______
--------/--------/--------/--------/--------/--------/--------/--------/------
### ###
### ### ### ### Yannis Nikolopoulos Nikolo...@tnclus.ntc.nokia.com
### ### ### ### Gre:UK:Fin Yannis.Ni...@ntc.nokia.com
### ###
nikolo...@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi
> In article <1994Dec12.102909.1@tnclus>,
> <nikolo...@tnclus.tele.nokia.fi> wrote:
>>In article <3cfbjv$6...@Mars.mcs.com>, ne...@MCS.COM (Nesta Stubbs) writes:
>>
> Actually, uhm, the "fi" at the end of your address sorta gave
> away your location, at least net wise, and the little "fin" in your
> signature closed up the rest of the assumption.
I am not Finnish. I am Greek and I live in England, ok?
Just don't assume that you know everything!
> I like the Frankenchrist better, reminds me of dead puss
> filled bodies. mmmmmmmm good.
>
If it had to be Geiger, I would choose something from his
biomechanoid period. Even the thought of it does...
> --
Yannis
Denise M Delgado
someone please re-post it or forward it to me?
THANK YOU in advance.
denise
Rico Monge
> still, like that boy, rico monge, who is chicano and is totally fucking
> sexist, and it's like why did i think he was white? maybe, because he
> was fucking calling another non white sister a bitch. you know? or
> maybe it's becasue he just wrote a new post saying "fuck you rockstar,
> really" and i'm wondering how much of rico's shit isn't all about his
> fucking machismo and how much of it is because he is so whittened?
how am i "totally fucking sexist." please tell me. so, i said bitch. i
call my roommate, a male, a bitch when he pisses me off. big fucking deal.
i think people have to focus on trying to eliminate all of this shit, and i
think you are perpetuating sexism with your statements. "you don't know me,
you don't know a damn thing about me."
Samir Khan
Look, I'm brown. I'm a freak. Some people (and I cannot emphasize it
enough) treat me like shit because of that. There are others who don't.
I don't look down on all white males. I look down on stupid white
males, stupid black males, stupid white females, stupid brown females
and stupid gay brown males, etc, etc, etc.
Maybe a large percentage of people who are white and male are
homophobic, or sexist, or racist. But not all of them... And some of
the posts in this group have shown that this is the case. So why make
blanket statements about everybody? You alienate those who agree with
you and are willing to change. And you also give more ammunition to
the conservative morons who would say we make dangerous overall
judgements about everybody.
We should fight these things on an individual level. The best way
that I fight homophobia among the jocks in my schoo is introduce them
to my gay friends. It seems to work very well.
Wheras standing back and screaming into the net hasnt' converted
anybody yet.
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