A shy ESTJ? Is there such?
Israel's Daughter
Is there such thing as a shy ESTJ? I don't care how dumb the question
sounds..
I'll ignore all sarcasm. And for that matter, how often do you see an
outgoing
INFP?
--
Out of the ash I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
Sylvia Plath
Unknown
When I took the test and came up INFP, my friends were surprized. I
act silly and outgoing in public. Weird, eh?
---Linda
Steve Myers
"Israel's Daughter" <ISRAE...@aol.com> wrote:
>Is there such thing as a shy ESTJ? I don't care how dumb the
>question sounds.. I'll ignore all sarcasm. And for that matter,
>how often do you see an outgoing INFP?
Yes, it is possible for there to be a 'shy' extrovert, for a variety
of reasons.
For example, shyness can be caused by factors other than a preference
for introversion, such as low self-esteem - so if an ESTJ has low
self-esteem, he or she may appear as shy to others.
Alternatively, you may see the extrovert in a limited number of
settings - ones in which he tends only to use his introversion (we all
use both E and I, to some extent, throughout the day). In this case,
the extrovert may appear as shy to you, though he might not appear as
shy to people in other social settings. Such a contrast is often most
apparent when comparing home and work/school life - an extrovert at
work is sometimes an introvert at home, or vice versa.
Whilst certain behavioural traits *tend* to be associated with Myers
Briggs preferences, they are not hard-and-fast rules.
-----------
Steve Myers
http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk
----------
Note: my 'from' address is mis-set to reduce 'spam' emails.
However, if 'reply'ing, the correct address should appear.
(non-spam emails can be sent to smy...@teamtechnology.co.uk)
Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
IdealystDK
Subject: A shy ESTJ? Is there such?
From: "Israel's Daughter" <ISRAE...@aol.com>
Date: 13 Feb 1997 06:45:42 GMT
Message-ID: <01bc197b$4e0bcfc0$5b85d9ce@jill-s-computer>
Is there such thing as a shy ESTJ? I don't care how dumb the question
sounds..
I'll ignore all sarcasm. And for that matter, how often do you see an
outgoing
INFP?
--
Out of the ash I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
Sylvia Plath<<
First off, I love that Plath quote. She's one of my fave INFJs.
Second, yes it's quite possible to a shy ESTJ---in a way. While an ESTJ is
an extravert, two of the ESTJs functions, Sensing and Feeling, are
introverted. Most introverted and least comfortable for the ESTJ to
discuss are feelings... This means that while an ESTJ would most likely
have absolutely no problem discussing, say, a budget plan, he or she might
find it very difficult to tell another human being that he or she cared
about him (except in an overly dramatic way, which the ESTJ might use to
cover up that inner fear), or to "ask out" someone the ESTJ liked...
Bill Jeffries book discusses this, explaining to an ENFP that the reason
he finds it difficult to approach women is that, despite his being an
extravert, his Feeling function is introverted, and thus he finds it
difficult to be emotionally honest with someone he is attracted to...
Of course, heh, it's a hell of a lot harder to be both an introvert AND to
have the Feeling function introverted...
Woe is me.
(((((Daniel Kirsner)))))
(((Muscular hunk of burning love))))
(((Character actron specializing in impassioned ambivilence))))
((((Unattached scout on twilight mission beyond the wire))))
(((((((((((((MBTI genius and reluctant guru))))
((((( "No fire---only a naughty little monkey!" )))))
(((((INFP))))))
((((((((((Pisces Manchild)))))
((((((((((( "I'm an artist---your rules don't apply." )))))))
(((((Proud papa of two bitchin' feline americans of color)))))))))))))))))))
(((((One sleeps on my back when I doze off))))
(((((Dedicated to putting the "fun" in "dysfunctional"))))
(((( I like it that way))))
bigbelly
"Israel's Daughter" <ISRAE...@aol.com> wrote:
Is there such thing as a shy ESTJ? I don't care how dumb the
question
sounds..
I'll ignore all sarcasm. And for that matter, how often do you see
an outgoing INFP?
--
Out of the ash I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
Sylvia Plath<<
First off, that's not a dumb question at all.
You know, I've never understood that Plath quote, though I like it.
Would you or IdeaIyst care to say a few words about why you like it,
if you have the time or the inclination? No biggie, though, just
curious.
Maybe it's one of those things where you get it or you don't.
IdeaIyst, in a rare moment of lucidity, wrote:
>
> First off, I love that Plath quote. She's one of my fave INFJs.
>
> Second, yes it's quite possible to a shy ESTJ---in a way. While an ESTJ is
> an extravert, two of the ESTJs functions, Sensing and Feeling, are
> introverted. Most introverted and least comfortable for the ESTJ to
> discuss are feelings... This means that while an ESTJ would most likely
> have absolutely no problem discussing, say, a budget plan, he or she might
> find it very difficult to tell another human being that he or she cared
> about him (except in an overly dramatic way, which the ESTJ might use to
> cover up that inner fear), or to "ask out" someone the ESTJ liked...<<
Yeah, I'd go along with this, too. Actually had an experience like
this, where I only realized a female ESTJ liked me after the fact.
And we worked together (in the same office, anyway) for weeks.
She was cute, too, and rather spacey, actually, though very bright.
Appealing qualities in an ESTJ.
(just kidding about the lucidity comment BTW)
As to an outgoing INFP, I dunno. Not too sure about this one.
A shy ESTJ is kind of neat, though. Good luck with whatever it is.
Darn, work is picking up soon. Ah, well, back to the grind.
Israel's Daughter
No, that's how I am, and that is why [Idealyst!] that I was wondering
about other people tyoing me differently in different situations..
As I was saying, I try with all my might to be an obnoxious ESTJ, but
you can't fight your true nature for long...
Jill
--
Out of the ash I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
Sylvia Plath
anon...@secret.org wrote in article <5dvi8u$d...@anchor.aonline.com>...
: " I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
: > Sylvia Plath
:
: When I took the test and came up INFP, my friends were surprized. I
:
:
Israel's Daughter
Well I often consider myself to be an outgoing INFP...
considering how many times I've been trampled by the opposite sex, it
has
obviously had an affect on my outgoingness (er, patience, probably)..
Self esteem plays a role, but not the right role. I am either confident
and brash (which attracts sleazebuckets) or I am shy, meek, introverted,
which attracts the tramplers.
Life would be simpler if I was a shy ESTJ than an outgoing INFP, I don't
know...
I'm getting myself confused right now!
Jill
--
Out of the ash I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
Sylvia Plath
Steve Myers <smy...@teamtechnology.remove.co.uk> wrote in article
<33037877...@news.u-net.com>...
: "Israel's Daughter" <ISRAE...@aol.com> wrote:
: >Is there such thing as a shy ESTJ? I don't care how dumb the
: >question sounds.. I'll ignore all sarcasm. And for that matter,
: >how often do you see an outgoing INFP?
:
: Yes, it is possible for there to be a 'shy' extrovert, for a variety
: of reasons.
:
: For example, shyness can be caused by factors other than a preference
: for introversion, such as low self-esteem - so if an ESTJ has low
: self-esteem, he or she may appear as shy to others. <<<
:
: Steve Myers
:
Israel's Daughter
Actually, I just liked the quote, I love Plath's poetry, and I just
picked up the line as my sig. I don't have red hair (dark blonde!)
but I must say I like the bit about rising up and eating men like
air. Open for individual interpretation :)
Jill, twisted INFP who tries for ESTJ with all her might
--
Out of the ash I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
Sylvia Plath
bigbelly <bigb...@enteract.com> wrote in article
<330399...@enteract.com>...
: ".
:
: You know, I've never understood that Plath quote, though I like it.
:
:
Diana
>bigbelly <bigb...@enteract.com> wrote in article
><330399...@enteract.com>...
>Out of the ash I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
>:
>: You know, I've never understood that Plath quote, though I like it.
>: Would you or IdeaIyst care to say a few words about why you like it,
>: if you have the time or the inclination? No biggie, though, just
>: curious.
>: Maybe it's one of those things where you get it or you don't.
>
> picked up the line as my sig. I don't have red hair (dark blonde!)
> but I must say I like the bit about rising up and eating men like
> air. Open for individual interpretation :)
Lady Lazarus is one of my favorite poems, although I'm not sure how
well I understand it, either. One book I read speculated that Plath
had BPD. (Of course, the author never met her. Come to think of it,
she may have killed herself before the term was introduced into the
DSM.) Anyway, in the poem, Plath alludes to her previous suicide
attempts, one for each decade of her life. The 'Out of the ash..."
line may be a phoenix image. The red hair may be fire or anger or a
demonic quality, something really bitchin like that (now I'm really
pulling things out of the air!) But I think that Plath may have felt
that some of her bad experiences with men left her feeling, at least
temporarily, impenetrable. I'm hesitant to use the word 'empowered,'
unless I can stretch it to encompass the idea of empowerment in a not
necessarily constructive way; she's ready to tear into anything that
crosses her path It's a great line.
Diana
INTP/Libra
(What exactly do those four letters mean, anyway?)
IdealystDK
Subject: Re: A shy ESTJ? Is there such?
From: me...@ixx.netcom.com (Diana)
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:22:27 GMT
Message-ID: <5e0elq$e...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
Diana
I'd go with the above defininitions. Kinda similar to the mythology in
some of Sinead O'Connor (INFP)'s songs...the "I will arise/The Phoenix
from the flames" idea, or as Dylan (INFP) put it "In the final end he won
the war/After losing every battle"..or as Cobain (INFP) put "She'll come
back as fire/To burn all the liars/Leave a blanket of ash on the
ground"...Resurection/Revenge myths seem to have a real attraction to
INFPs and INFJs suffering from depression (Which, of course, Plath and
Cobain died from, O'Connor has been treated for, and Dylan has suffered
from, IMHO, on and off for many years...)
INTP stands for
"Iranian Newspapers Taste Peculiar"
(That was a joke, right?)
frost
"Israel's Daughter" <ISRAE...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Is there such thing as a shy ESTJ? I don't care how dumb the question
>sounds..
> I'll ignore all sarcasm. And for that matter, how often do you see an
>outgoing
> INFP?
> Sylvia Plath
How 'bout a shy ENFP or shy ENTP? So shy, so reclusive, so accustomed to
living in the hermit's hermetically sealed little world that he (or she!,
or maybe it!) always scores as an "I" on the Keirsey? So shy that he has
(well, metaphorically speaking) built a personal fortress with three moats
and five high walls on the tallest cliff at the edge of the world,
insulating and distancing himself from the mad and maddening crowds? So
fearful of others that his belly has become permanently discolored yellow
and he's made the "Cowardly Lion" his "patron saint". Putting zany
exaggerations aside, how would we tell a very-socially-phobic ENFP from an
INFP, a socially phobic ENTP from an INTP?; both would, ostensibly, live
introverted lifestyles and, merely because of the anxiety, often feel
drained after social contact.
Israel's Daughter
BTW, Danny, speaking of the Cobain reference.. What type was Frances
Farmer?
She was really condemned by society, jeez....
I hate how men are termed enigmas, or moody, or whatever, but visceral
women
are deemed crazy (or worse).
--
Out of the ash I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
Sylvia Plath
IdealystDK <ideal...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970214024...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
: Subject: Re: A shy ESTJ? Is there such?
: From: me...@ixx.netcom.com (Diana)
: Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 01:22:27 GMT
: Message-ID: <5e0elq$e...@dfw-ixnews9.ix.netcom.com>
:
: >bigbelly <bigb...@enteract.com> wrote in article
: ><330399...@enteract.com>...
: >Out of the ash I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
: > Sylvia Plath>: ".
:
:
:
:
Cary Renquist
In message <01bc197b$4e0bcfc0$5b85d9ce@jill-s-computer> - "Israel's Daughter"
<ISRAE...@aol.com> writes:
:>
:>Subject: A shy ESTJ? Is there such?
:>From: "Israel's Daughter" <ISRAE...@aol.com>
:>Date: 13 Feb 1997 06:45:42 GMT
:>Message-ID: <01bc197b$4e0bcfc0$5b85d9ce@jill-s-computer>
:>
:>
:> Is there such thing as a shy ESTJ? I don't care how dumb the question
:>sounds..
:> I'll ignore all sarcasm. And for that matter, how often do you see an
:>outgoing
:> INFP?
:>
:>--
:> Sylvia Plath<<
:>First off, I love that Plath quote. She's one of my fave INFJs.
:>
:>Second, yes it's quite possible to a shy ESTJ---in a way. While an ESTJ is
:>an extravert, two of the ESTJs functions, Sensing and Feeling, are
:>introverted. Most introverted and least comfortable for the ESTJ to
:>discuss are feelings... This means that while an ESTJ would most likely
:>have absolutely no problem discussing, say, a budget plan, he or she might
:>find it very difficult to tell another human being that he or she cared
:>about him (except in an overly dramatic way, which the ESTJ might use to
:>cover up that inner fear), or to "ask out" someone the ESTJ liked...
:>Bill Jeffries book discusses this, explaining to an ENFP that the reason
:>he finds it difficult to approach women is that, despite his being an
:>extravert, his Feeling function is introverted, and thus he finds it
:>difficult to be emotionally honest with someone he is attracted to...
:>
:>Of course, heh, it's a hell of a lot harder to be both an introvert AND to
:>have the Feeling function introverted...
:>
:>Woe is me.
Actually my roommate is a perfect example of a shy ESTJ.
He is very competent in a business situations (some might
argue a bit belligerent) -- while failing miserably in
general social situations. I, an INFP, am the complete
opposite -- when we go to social gatherings together
(usually consisting of his acquaintances) I usually have
to get a ride home with someone else.
In every other aspect we are true to our (I-E) colors -- he
looks without for answers I look within.
Cary
Practical people would be more practical if they would take a
little more time for dreaming.
-- J. P. McEvoy
Israel's Daughter
I like that.."he looks without for answers, I look within"...ehheheh,
I know some E's who definitely look without!!
--
Out of the ash I rise with my red hair. And I eat men like air.
Sylvia Plath
Cary Renquist <cren...@goldengate.net> wrote in article
<2e7cd$0e1b...@news.goldengate.net>...
:
: :>
<<<<
: In every other aspect we are true to our (I-E) colors -- he
:
:
:
:
IdealystDK
Subject: Re: A shy ESTJ? Is there such?Date: 14 Feb 1997 04:54:08 GMT
Message-ID: <01bc1a34$e01ab700$4b8fb8cd@jill-s-computer>
BTW, Danny, speaking of the Cobain reference.. What type was Frances
Farmer?
She was really condemned by society, jeez....
I hate how men are termed enigmas, or moody, or whatever, but visceral
women
are deemed crazy (or worse). <<
I don't know. I've seen---and loved---"Frances", but I've never read
anything by or about the actual FF...
There was a very touching piece which the author of "Shadowland"---a FF
bio---wrote after KC killed himself...Kurt had called him and left a
message for him to call him back to discuss the book, and on the top of
his "to do" list the day Kurt's body was found was "Call Kurt Cobain---the
guy from Nirvana" or something like that...
debstar
I'd like information on the INXJ personality. (I've taken the
test and got two scores - INFJ and INXJ.)
Incidently, a long time friend also took the test and got an INXJ.
Parenthetically, after reading a bit about INFJ's -- it would seem
like two INFJ's could relate via ESP! "No needs for words" in the
truest sense...
Please e-mail or CC: (or just send thought waves if you're an INFJ! <G>