eNFp and BPD...similarities
Tezza
to really get a handle on it, but so far the similarities of
eNFp traits to the milder aspects of BPD are noticeable.
Anyone? I am eNFp and have BPD. What am I missing here
on this one?
--Tezza
steph
kinds of behaviour sometimes. It may have to do something with the typical
symptoms of BPD per se, which apparently, in their milder forms, correspond
to some common traits for ENFP people. I haven't given this enough thought
yet, but thanx for noticing the same thing I figured a while ago...
Could it be possible that some of our otherwise normal patterns of
behaviour have gone pathologic in your case, making them more dramatic,
i.e. sufficient for your BPD diagnosis? Well, maybe this is wishful
thinking...
stef
Tezza <duva...@juno.com> wrote in article
<387bc34d...@news.EFORTRESS.com>...
Andy Hock
>
> Kind of eerie. I haven't read up enough on eNFp yet
> to really get a handle on it, but so far the similarities of
> eNFp traits to the milder aspects of BPD are noticeable.
>
> Anyone? I am eNFp and have BPD. What am I missing here
> on this one?
Well . . . NFs can get pretty emotionally intense, but moreso
INFs who have all that emotional turmoil going on inside
without expressing it much.
However, ENFP is a personality type and BPD is a mood disorder.
One of the premises behind Myers-Briggs is that all of the types
are normal and good (though some are more common than others).
Mood disorders are just that -- "disorders". Thus, they are
not considered normal and good. BPD is treatable, but I don't
think anyone has tried to "treat" ENFP -- at least I HOPE not!
As to whether ENFPs are more prone to have BPD, that could be
an interesting statistical study.
Andy Hock
Andy Hock
>
> On Sun, 16 Jan 2000 14:49:30 -0500, Andy Hock <andy...@erinet.com> wrote:
>
> >Tezza wrote:
> >>
> >> Kind of eerie. I haven't read up enough on eNFp yet
> >> to really get a handle on it, but so far the similarities of
> >> eNFp traits to the milder aspects of BPD are noticeable.
> >>
> >> Anyone? I am eNFp and have BPD. What am I missing here
> >> on this one?
> >
> >Well . . . NFs can get pretty emotionally intense, but moreso
> >INFs who have all that emotional turmoil going on inside
> >without expressing it much.
> >
> >However, ENFP is a personality type and BPD is a mood disorder.
>
I don't see anything in my old DSM IIIR that says to code mood
disorders under axis II, but this might be something new in
DSM IV (too broke to buy it). Either way, one is a type and
the other is a disorder.
> >One of the premises behind Myers-Briggs is that all of the types
> >are normal and good (though some are more common than others).
> >Mood disorders are just that -- "disorders". Thus, they are
> >not considered normal and good. BPD is treatable, but I don't
> >think anyone has tried to "treat" ENFP -- at least I HOPE not!
> >
> >As to whether ENFPs are more prone to have BPD, that could be
> >an interesting statistical study.
>
> Yeah, like what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Do all BPD's test
> as NF or ENFP...
I doubt strongly if ALL do, but there may be a tendency there . . .
Andy Hock
Tezza
>Pretty funny linking there. I am an eNFP and do come close to borderline
>kinds of behaviour sometimes. It may have to do something with the typical
>symptoms of BPD per se, which apparently, in their milder forms, correspond
>to some common traits for ENFP people. I haven't given this enough thought
>yet, but thanx for noticing the same thing I figured a while ago...
At least I'm not the only one who has noticed.
>Could it be possible that some of our otherwise normal patterns of
>behaviour have gone pathologic in your case, making them more dramatic,
>i.e. sufficient for your BPD diagnosis? Well, maybe this is wishful
>thinking...
I agree with what most of the literature has to say about how BPD develops.
Does make one wonder if ENFPs are just degrees away from being really off in
their thinking, but most people probably have degrees of what could be labled
wrong thinking. Interesting, and would need much more thought because I
do believe that BPD is a disorder that needs treatment; traits of the ENFP don't!
Difference between personality traits and neurosis...big difference.
Thanks for the input.
--Tez
Tezza
>Tezza wrote:
>>
>> Kind of eerie. I haven't read up enough on eNFp yet
>> to really get a handle on it, but so far the similarities of
>> eNFp traits to the milder aspects of BPD are noticeable.
>>
>> Anyone? I am eNFp and have BPD. What am I missing here
>> on this one?
>
>Well . . . NFs can get pretty emotionally intense, but moreso
>INFs who have all that emotional turmoil going on inside
>without expressing it much.
>
>However, ENFP is a personality type and BPD is a mood disorder.
BPD falls under Axis II, personality disorders.
>One of the premises behind Myers-Briggs is that all of the types
>are normal and good (though some are more common than others).
>Mood disorders are just that -- "disorders". Thus, they are
>not considered normal and good. BPD is treatable, but I don't
>think anyone has tried to "treat" ENFP -- at least I HOPE not!
>
>As to whether ENFPs are more prone to have BPD, that could be
>an interesting statistical study.
Yeah, like what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Do all BPD's test
as NF or ENFP...
Thanks for the input.
--Tez
Rumour
>> >> eNFp traits to the milder aspects of BPD are noticeable.
>> >>
>> >> Anyone? I am eNFp and have BPD. What am I missing here
>> >> on this one?
hey,
Im ENFP and bipolar too, very odd indeed..hmph*
Tezza
I have Borderline Personality Disorder, BPD, not bipolar.
johns
> Anyone? I am eNFp and have BPD. What am I missing here
> on this one?
Not much. There's the possibility that a profiling tool
such as the MBTI can and does pick up a group of individuals
such as those with BPD, and attempt to stereotype them
as a personality archetype. The danger in that is it being
seen as normal and thus rationalized away as some hysterical
possibly very spoiled individual having a tantrum. Leading
of course, to some kind of punishment to 'drive out' the
demons .. or more popular, to find who to blame ( parents )
and what awful thing they must have done. Sound familiar?
--
johns in Idaho: The last frontier.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Jane W.
Tezza <duva...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:387bc34d...@news.EFORTRESS.com...
> Kind of eerie. I haven't read up enough on eNFp yet
> to really get a handle on it, but so far the similarities of
> eNFp traits to the milder aspects of BPD are noticeable.
>
> Anyone? I am eNFp and have BPD. What am I missing here
> on this one?
>
>
>
> --Tezza
Van Waffle
Tezza wrote:
> Kind of eerie. I haven't read up enough on eNFp yet
> to really get a handle on it, but so far the similarities of
> eNFp traits to the milder aspects of BPD are noticeable.
>
> Anyone? I am eNFp and have BPD. What am I missing here
> on this one?
>
> --Tezza
I am a 35-year-old ENFP who has suffered from chronic depression since
childhood. People sometimes ask me if I am bipolar. This question can be
particularly irritating because I do not experience mania, but the more
my personality develops, the more outgoing, creative and unpredictable I
become. I guess many people do not understand these traits are healthy
and comfortable for me.
My depression is probably due not only to being gay but also an artistic
ENFP male, who felt the need to repress much of his personality. My
mother is an ESFJ and my father is an INTP. The first time I took a
Meyers-Briggs test when I was about 25, I came out as an IXFJ! I was
always perceived by myself and others as an extreme introvert.
Apparently my typical ENFP need for grounding could never be resolved
until I accepted certain difficult facts about myself. During my teens I
became reclusive, which only starved me for the human contact every
extravert needs. As a young university student, I adopted a highly
ritualized and decisive lifestyle in order to manage my painful
feelings. However, I began to test as an INFP in my late 20s when I
moved into the field of journalism and began to express my creative
tendencies.
Developing my primary function, Extraverted iNtuition, has been a key
part of my approach to recovering from depression and living with
chronic symptoms. A healthy social life was impossible for me (and is
still difficult) until I accepted my sexual orientation and discovered
its importance in my interaction with others. I frequently find myself
retreating to the familiarity of my own home, and I enjoy the process of
self-discovery, but am still strongest in social settings. Several
months ago I gave the first public reading of some of my poetry and was
electrified by the energy I derived from performing before an audience.
My most persistent symptoms of depression include lack of concentration,
energy and motivation, as well as difficulty with memory. In treating my
depression, I have been gratified to discover these traits have much to
do with my illness and very little to do with my personality.
This is a different perspective from one who is an ENFP and not bipolar.
~Van
Tezza
Thanks for your input.
On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 20:37:36 -0500, "Jane W." <jgwe...@erols.com> wrote:
>I have an ESFP family member with BPD. Interesting.
>
>Tezza <duva...@juno.com> wrote in message
>news:387bc34d...@news.EFORTRESS.com...
Tezza
>
>
>> Anyone? I am eNFp and have BPD. What am I missing here
>> on this one?
>
>Not much. There's the possibility that a profiling tool
>such as the MBTI can and does pick up a group of individuals
>such as those with BPD, and attempt to stereotype them
>as a personality archetype. The danger in that is it being
>seen as normal and thus rationalized away as some hysterical
>possibly very spoiled individual having a tantrum. Leading
>of course, to some kind of punishment to 'drive out' the
>demons .. or more popular, to find who to blame ( parents )
>and what awful thing they must have done. Sound familiar?
Only somewhat familiar. I have seen some of your posts about Borderline
Personality Disorder, and your view is taken from the DSM IV; you seem
to think all Borderlines are as extreme as described in *I Hate You--Don't
Leave Me*. Am I wrong in assuming that about you? I'm just going by a
couple of posts you've made in the past.
And I *do* blame my mother ;-) hehehe
(well, she was extremely invalidating, and still is, but I take the responsibilty of
my disorder upon myself. I developed it, nurtured it, and cultivated it as a defense
mechanism.)
--Tezza
Tezza
Hey Van,
Thank you for your input. By BPD I was refering to Borderline Personality Disorder,
not Bipolar Disorder; sorry for the confusion. Borderlines have mood swings, but
are rapid compared to Bipolars. I do not meet the criteria for manic states, but
I do occasionally have a hypomanic episode...lasts longer than four days, usually
a week. I have the characteristic mood shifts all day, but Prozac keeps me on
a more even keel. I am also very creative, and was surprised I didn't test as an
artisan since I paint...but it was not surprising once I read the description of ENFP's.
It fits. I also was depressed and subdued for years as a young person.
There are aspects of Borderline PD that don't fit in with ENFP; I was merely seeing
a slight similarity in some traits. It's one thing to be able to form bonds with people
very easily and quickly, it's another when you can call it *over-attached* or *enmeshed*,
as with Borderline. I do know the distinction between personality and when personality
traits and emotions get out of line (a disorder of emotion, as one psychologist calls BPD).
I'm so glad you have found your niche in life. I am on the threshold of mine, and am
having to battle my Borderline stuff constantly, but I am making progress. Congratulations
on your poetry reading! It takes courage to expose our talents to criticism. You might enjoy
reading *The Courage to Create* by Rollo May, psychologist. He addresses many interesting
aspects of the creative process; a good short read.
Borderline Personality has crippled my artistic progress in the past; I hope you continue
to overcome your depression and have great success with your writing. *The Artist's Way*
by Julia Cameron can be inspirational if you ever get down about your creative power, although
I have to say that Rollo May's little book gave me a fresh outlook, and I believe Cameron
got many of her ideas from him, as I am sure he gleaned from someone before him!
--Tezza
Van Waffle
Tezza wrote:
> Hey Van,
>
> Thank you for your input. By BPD I was refering to Borderline Personality Disorder,
> not Bipolar Disorder; sorry for the confusion. Borderlines have mood swings, but
> are rapid compared to Bipolars. I do not meet the criteria for manic states, but
> I do occasionally have a hypomanic episode...lasts longer than four days, usually
> a week. I have the characteristic mood shifts all day, but Prozac keeps me on
> a more even keel. I am also very creative, and was surprised I didn't test as an
> artisan since I paint...but it was not surprising once I read the description of ENFP's.
> It fits. I also was depressed and subdued for years as a young person.
This is very informative, Tezza. Where can I get more information about BPD?
Van
Tezza
BPD is still the most over-diagnosed disorder; keep that in mind. There are certain
criteria that have to be met. Most of what is written about BPD, like the book *I Hate
You--Don't Leave Me* is very extreme. I had to read that book twice before I
recognized my own behavior in it. Of course, recognizing our behavior is often
difficult. Stress often is the trigger for borderline symptoms, and it can be hard to
pin them down. I have been in and out of therapy with the same guy for
seven years, and only this year have been diagnosed with BPD. My being
admitted to the psych ward and my subsequent behavior there clued my
psychiatrist in...I was a total flake in the hospital.
Some stuff is geared toward therps and treatment, but has good info:
http://mentalhelp.net/articles/dbt1.htm
if this site doesn't work, it's called "An Overview of Dialectical Behaviour Therapy in the
Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder" by Barry Kiehn and Michaela Swales
It's a good site because when I read the bit about invalidating environments it really clicked.
My psychiatrist was sure that most Borderlines had abuse in their past, but I knew I didn't.
http://www.angelfire.com/in/psychdef/BPD.html
http://www.palace.net/~llama/psych/bpd.html
http://www.mhsource.com/edu/psytimes/p960424.html
Let me know if you think you fit the criteria, and I will try to get you more info. You may
not have BPD even if you identify with what you read. It's tricky, at best. Good luck.
I post in alt.support.personality occassionally; people there with BPD and other personality
disorders...interesting, to say the least!
--Tezza