Kenrick Cleveland - Still a Fraud?
AffiliateNLP
narrowly escaping jail time.
It appears to this poster that he is perpetuating another fraud, this time with
his 'maxpersuasion' affiliate program.
From late Dec. 2003 up until yesterday, I sent over 800 unique hits to
Cleveland's website. It has tapered off quite a bit in recent months because I
didn't want to spend my time or money sending traffic to a loser site that
couldn't convert sales - or was stealing them.
I have been credited with 2 sales the entire time I've been enrolled in the
program. Curiously enough, these 2 sales came within days after signing up,
and were credited from direct links inside emails I sent to my private customer
list. Could it be that they let new users sign up for the affiliate program,
give them credit for their sales to get them going, and then steal their sales
later? Do they give you credit only if a person buys the first time they visit
the site? How do they track all of this? I really don't know, and neither
does Kenrick it seems.
Here is one instance that I do know of:
I email my list with Kenrick's ad for the 'Dark Side' program. This is an
expensive program, as such, I offered several bonuses to my subscribers if they
bought the program after clicking on my affiliate link. I get an email from a
subscriber saying that he clicked on my link, bought the program, and would
like his bonus items. I sent him the bonus items, but never got credit for the
sale.
It turned out that my subscriber called Kenrick's office and ordered the 'Dark
Side' instead of ordering online. When I informed Kenrick that this man only
bought the 'Dark Side' because of my email, Kenrick said that 'if the affiliate
software says you don't get credit, you don't get credit' and 'they must have
already been on the customer list'. That's funny, since my subscriber said he
never signed up for ANY of your lists before. My subscriber even offered to
call or email the office to let them know I should receive credit for the sale,
as the only reason he even knew about the 'Dark Side' was my email. It didn't
matter - Kenrick the Cheap wasn't going to pay me what was rightfully mine
($200+) no matter what.
Ask yourself this simple question: If Kenrick is the MASTER OF PERSUASION he
makes himself out to be, how in the hell do 800+ plus different people visit
his site and purchase NOTHING?
I would advise all who read this to not waste your time or money on the
Maxpersuasion affiliate program. You will regret it.
BIG JOE :)
--
---
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"AffiliateNLP" <affili...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040811041717...@mb-m28.aol.com...
ErosLA77
<< When I informed Kenrick that this man only
bought the 'Dark Side' because of my email, Kenrick said that 'if the affiliate
software says you don't get credit, you don't get credit' and 'they must have
Sigh. I had hoped that Kenrick would change his tune from when I knew him in
the early 90's, but sad to say he continues along his destructive pathways.
RJ
Sue RAY NOW!
Ask me how!
PUT AN END TO HARASSMENT AND ABUSE OF PROCESS!
Jonathan Altfeld
>If you do a quick Google search you'll soon find this person
>who 'happens' to be defending Kenrick Cleveland also just
>'happens' to be posting from the same email address as Kenrick
>uses to advertise his crap.
I took a look at the Google results you suggested.
I did the search and came up with this:
You are correct that an ad for Kenrick's material came from that same
email address, but you are probably incorrect in making the presumption
that Kenrick is the one who sent the email. If you look closely at
those google results, it also appears that person is also selling other
things on ebay. Which ought to give you a lead you can explore, to
determine the 'location' of the sale of that/those items.
Here's the ebay ad, for brevity:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1gdaf01q69m4kjch79k88oqie7frih2e31%404ax.com&output=gplain
That comes from Hollywood, Florida (near Miami), which isn't even close
to Kenrick's home in the Pacific Northwest.
So the above post was prematurely jumping to invalid conclusions.
Maybe it comes from someone who is getting good results with Kenrick's
affiliate program. I'm not an affiliate of his, nor am I associated
with Kenrick, so, I don't care who it comes from other than to observe
that it doesn't seem to be Kenrick who posted.
So -- regardless of the experience with the affiliate program... the
evidence used to "convict" in that post -- was wrong. In other words,
the original accusation remains unsubstantiated.
Now on to some separate comments about affiliate programs, and not just
Kenrick's.
Affiliate programs are especially attractive to affiliates and most
likely to produce a high response rate when (a) the traffic YOU send is
of high quality -- i.e., likely buyers, and also often when (b) the
items on offer from the vendors you endorse are of lower initial price
points than most of Kenrick's stuff is.
Kenrick doesn't offer much stuff at low cost. He doesn't really have a
lot of cheap entry-level material to attract your website visitors who
click through on a first visit. In other words, most of your
clickthroughs aren't going to see a low-cost item to start with, so,
many will not buy on a first click-through. And yes, as that recent
poster suggested, many of those same people are often now clearing their
browsers' internet histories & temporary files (cookies) to eliminate
spyware on their computers.
Kenrick's affiliate software PROBABLY has statistics that he can view on
where his clickthroughs come from, and where his sales come from. He's
the only real source of viable information on the quality of your
prospects that you can get, because he can compare your results with
results coming from his other affiliates. Though I doubt you'd trust
his review of the "quality" of your clickthrough referrals. When in
reality it would behoove him to tell the truth to each of his affiliates
about the quality of those referrals, since he'd be the best one to know
what to do to improve (a) clickthroughs and perhaps even (b) the quality
of that referred traffic, and the only way to keep affiliates whose
links are performing, is to reward them regularly for their referred
sales.
So in view of that, online affiliate programs for products that have
only high price points aren't exactly a great deal for the affiliates
(sorry, Kenrick), since people do tend to take their time when making
decisions, and often do call the vendor to ask questions before buying.
So you can very well lose out on the sale when using affiliate programs
like that.
By contrast, I use Bart Baggett's affiliate program to offer his
handwriting analysis products to my website visitors, and Bart's got
lower cost entry level products that sell reasonably well. Only rarely
do I get large sales through that program.
As for Kenrick's choice not to honor phone sales as being referred or
arising through an affiliate's referral, that is entirely his choice, as
most affiliate program owners that I know will not do that (only
occasionally have I heard of such a thing). Largely because it gets
very difficult to track, and often, people who call the vendor directly
may do so after visiting MULTIPLE affiliates' sites, and then deciding
to call the vendor direct.
Here is a way YOU can maximize your results. Tell people on your
referral page that if they choose to buy Kenrick's material, you
recognize they may erase their cookies, or buy at a later date, or call
the vendor to ask questions, but if they BUY THROUGH YOUR SITE, and you
receive evidence of that, you will give them something ELSE, of value,
for FREE.
In other words, make it clear to your visitors that buyers through your
site will have some VALUE ADDED by honoring your affiliate links.
Your real problem is not with Kenrick. It is that (a) prospects
visiting through your site are either not good prospects, OR, fickle
about honoring affiliate links. And, (b) you're not offering enough
clear value for them to buy through you, as opposed to going direct to
the vendor.
So, you might want to sweeten the deal on your page. In other words,
"if you choose to buy through this page, once we receive evidence of
your sale, we'll send you this free ebook, XXXXXXXXX, which is a $65
value -- for free -- in thanks for purchasing through us.
Make sure you own the rights to distribute anything you give as a
freebie though, and be honest about what it would cost them to get it
elsewhere. Otherwise -- it'd be fraudulent behavior on your part.
Just a thought.
As a separate suggestion for Kenrick, if he wants ALL of his affiliates
to maintain a high(er) opinion of his affiliate program, he may want
to...
(a) offer some lower-cost products just to satisfy his affiliates &
keep them affiliated... since it's likely that more of their
clickthroughs would lead to small sales which would benefit
those affiliates (with less money, but more often).
(b) offer his affiliates the right to distribute some additional free
item as a bonus, privately, to their referred customers (as
an incentive for those affiliate clickthroughs to honor the
affiliate's links even long after they first click through
and perhaps sign up for Kenrick's newsletter.
(c) ask his phone-buying customers "did you first learn about me
through one of my affiliates" as a way of tracking referred
clickthroughs that don't then honor the affiliate's links.
(I know, this one's a troublesome one to track & manage).
Regards,
Jonathan Altfeld (jona...@altfeld.com)
http://www.altfeld.com/mastery/index.html Phone: 813-854-4848
NEW: NLP Skills-Builders -- 3 New Double-DVD-sets...
http://www.altfeld.com/mastery/products/sbdvds.html
Global Newsletter: masteryi...@list.altfeld.com
FLIRTING & NLP tips: flirtop...@list.altfeld.com
Tom Vizzini
> narrowly escaping jail time.
>
I notice it didn't bother you a bit when you thought you could profit from
it.... got karma?
--
Tom Vizzini
New York accelerated Seminar October 7-10
http://essential-skills.com/content.php?cid=1041
New York 3D Mind Practitioner October 15-17
http://essential-skills.com/content.php?cid=1034
Real Skills for the Real World www.essential-skills.com
New members area www.essential-skills.com/index.php
3D Mind www.essential-skills.com/3dmind.htm
I delete spam]@xxx.com
>Sigh. I had hoped that Kenrick would change his tune from when I knew him in
>the early 90's, but sad to say he continues along his destructive pathways.
>
>RJ
>
>Sue RAY NOW!
>Ask me how!
>PUT AN END TO HARASSMENT AND ABUSE OF PROCESS!
Fer shtunkenah shaygetz!
Gei Kock in Ofen Yam!
I delete spam]@xxx.com
wrote:
>If you do a quick Google search you'll soon find this person who
>'happens' to be defending Kenrick Cleveland also just 'happens' to be
>posting from the same email address as Kenrick uses to advertise his
>crap.
Uh, Sherlock, I'm not Kenrick. I cut and paste his emails.
Ever hear of cut and paste....
eugene
I didn't enroll into the program.
Nevertheless, his material is top shelf. You did perform great service to
those you sent to his website. Ken is the man. If we took the pieces of
greatness that RB, RJ, DG, RD and all the rest, they would amount to
something more than the sum of their parts. The whole is more than the sum
of the parts. That is why I'm adding Sigma to Tau Pi. As soon as the
engineering society drops it from their name.
You lack of sensory awareness and limited insight prevents you from
leveraging the satisfaction that the people you sent to Kendrick are
feeling. After all, they have you to thank for that wonderful inspiring and
awakening, delight they learned. Kendrick Cleveland is the cat's meow!
Remember that the map is not the territory, "cat's meow" is not Kendrick
Cleveland, It's an american expression of emotoin synesthesia of A/K with
cat as visual V so it may be A/V with infered K.
You probably got a discount on the tapes anyway!
"Tom Vizzini" <T...@essential-skills.com> wrote in message
news:1vudnYDwZ96...@adelphia.com...
eugene
eugene
"ErosLA77" <eros...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040813184141...@mb-m03.aol.com...
eugene
<I (I delete spam]@xxx.com)> wrote in message
news:8pkuh0t1uspnmlrqq...@4ax.com...
eugene
Ross is actuallly auctining off his time on ebay. You bid, you win, you get
to blow him.
"BIG JOE :)" <j...@joe.net> wrote in message
news:1VMSc.16613$gd1.10984@trndny05...
J Rapson
> If you do a quick Google search you'll soon find this person who
> 'happens' to be defending Kenrick Cleveland also just 'happens' to be
> posting from the same email address as Kenrick uses to advertise his
> crap.
> Yep. Looks like Kenrick is still very much a fraud.
> Does anyone else wonder if this spammer Kenrick Cleveland is even
> capable of telling the truth?
>
> To sum it all up:
>
> Kenrick Cleveland is a fraud
>
> Kenrick Cleveland is a spammer
>
> Kenrick Cleveland is a compulsive liar
>
> Kenrick Cleveland is a SLIMEBAG!
>
> Kenrick Cleveland IS the Dark Side of NLP
>
>
>
> I(I delete spam]@xxx.com wrote in message news:<m9nkh0palu8o5ic7j...@4ax.com>...
> > On 11 Aug 2004 08:17:17 GMT, affili...@aol.com (AffiliateNLP)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >As most of you are aware, Mr Cleveland was convicted of fraud years ago,
> > >narrowly escaping jail time.
> > >
> > >It appears to this poster that he is perpetuating another fraud, this time with
> > >his 'maxpersuasion' affiliate program.
> > >
> > suddenly Mr. Ethics?
> >
> > >From late Dec. 2003 up until yesterday, I sent over 800 unique hits to
> > >Cleveland's website. It has tapered off quite a bit in recent months because I
> > >didn't want to spend my time or money sending traffic to a loser site that
> > >couldn't convert sales - or was stealing them.
> >
> > >
> > >I have been credited with 2 sales the entire time I've been enrolled in the
> > >program. Curiously enough, these 2 sales came within days after signing up,
> > >and were credited from direct links inside emails I sent to my private customer
> > >list. Could it be that they let new users sign up for the affiliate program,
> > >give them credit for their sales to get them going, and then steal their sales
> > >later? Do they give you credit only if a person buys the first time they visit
> > >the site? How do they track all of this? I really don't know, and neither
> > >does Kenrick it seems.
> > >
> >
> > now doing to delete spyware) they can't track you. But you genius are
> > too stupid to know this.
> >
> > >Here is one instance that I do know of:
> > >
> > >I email my list with Kenrick's ad for the 'Dark Side' program. This is an
> > >expensive program, as such, I offered several bonuses to my subscribers if they
> > >bought the program after clicking on my affiliate link. I get an email from a
> > >subscriber saying that he clicked on my link, bought the program, and would
> > >like his bonus items. I sent him the bonus items, but never got credit for the
> > >sale.
> > >
> > >It turned out that my subscriber called Kenrick's office and ordered the 'Dark
> > >Side' instead of ordering online. When I informed Kenrick that this man only
> > >bought the 'Dark Side' because of my email, Kenrick said that 'if the affiliate
> > >software says you don't get credit, you don't get credit' and 'they must have
> > >already been on the customer list'. That's funny, since my subscriber said he
> > >never signed up for ANY of your lists before. My subscriber even offered to
> > >call or email the office to let them know I should receive credit for the sale,
> > >as the only reason he even knew about the 'Dark Side' was my email. It didn't
> > >matter - Kenrick the Cheap wasn't going to pay me what was rightfully mine
> > >($200+) no matter what.
> >
> > don't let them go off line.
> >
> > And the Dark Side is a kick ass program.
> >
> > >
> > >Ask yourself this simple question: If Kenrick is the MASTER OF PERSUASION he
> > >makes himself out to be, how in the hell do 800+ plus different people visit
> > >his site and purchase NOTHING?
> >
> > on your list... they must be losers too.
> >
> > Takes one to know one.
> > >
> > >I would advise all who read this to not waste your time or money on the
> > >Maxpersuasion affiliate program. You will regret it.
> > >
> > be greatful you sent them there.
> >
> > So for $200 bucks you think you are owed, you had to lower yourself...
> >
> > SLIMEBAG!
buttshark2004,
I don't know who you are yet if you've got a gripe with Kenrick, take
it up WITH him. this is not a forum for posting complaints about NLP
Trainers
Jim R
Jeff Crawford
> Ebay auction, GET A DATE WITH ROSS JEFFRIES item number 123456789
> Ross is actuallly auctining off his time on ebay. You bid, you win, you get
> to blow him.
>
Sounds like a worthless auction to me...kinda like all the crappy
stuff you auction off - like your seminars..
Unka Hooka Puffa
UnKaH
I delete spam]@xxx.com
wrote:
>As most of you are aware, Mr Cleveland was convicted of fraud years ago,
>narrowly escaping jail time.
>
>It appears to this poster that he is perpetuating another fraud, this time with
>his 'maxpersuasion' affiliate program.
>
So if he is a fraud, why are you dealing with him? Now are you
suddenly Mr. Ethics?
>From late Dec. 2003 up until yesterday, I sent over 800 unique hits to
>Cleveland's website. It has tapered off quite a bit in recent months because I
>didn't want to spend my time or money sending traffic to a loser site that
>couldn't convert sales - or was stealing them.
HITS stands for How Idiots Track Success. Guess you're an idiot too.
>
>I have been credited with 2 sales the entire time I've been enrolled in the
>program. Curiously enough, these 2 sales came within days after signing up,
>and were credited from direct links inside emails I sent to my private customer
>list. Could it be that they let new users sign up for the affiliate program,
>give them credit for their sales to get them going, and then steal their sales
>later? Do they give you credit only if a person buys the first time they visit
>the site? How do they track all of this? I really don't know, and neither
>does Kenrick it seems.
>
Hey genius, if a person cleans out his cookies files (which people are
now doing to delete spyware) they can't track you. But you genius are
too stupid to know this.
>Here is one instance that I do know of:
>
>I email my list with Kenrick's ad for the 'Dark Side' program. This is an
>expensive program, as such, I offered several bonuses to my subscribers if they
>bought the program after clicking on my affiliate link. I get an email from a
>subscriber saying that he clicked on my link, bought the program, and would
>like his bonus items. I sent him the bonus items, but never got credit for the
>sale.
>
>It turned out that my subscriber called Kenrick's office and ordered the 'Dark
>Side' instead of ordering online. When I informed Kenrick that this man only
>bought the 'Dark Side' because of my email, Kenrick said that 'if the affiliate
>software says you don't get credit, you don't get credit' and 'they must have
>already been on the customer list'. That's funny, since my subscriber said he
>never signed up for ANY of your lists before. My subscriber even offered to
>call or email the office to let them know I should receive credit for the sale,
>as the only reason he even knew about the 'Dark Side' was my email. It didn't
>matter - Kenrick the Cheap wasn't going to pay me what was rightfully mine
>($200+) no matter what.
ALL affiliate programs require the person buy on line. Some people
don't let them go off line.
And the Dark Side is a kick ass program.
>
>Ask yourself this simple question: If Kenrick is the MASTER OF PERSUASION he
>makes himself out to be, how in the hell do 800+ plus different people visit
>his site and purchase NOTHING?
Because it's not numbers stupid. It's who they are. And if they're
on your list... they must be losers too.
Takes one to know one.
>
>I would advise all who read this to not waste your time or money on the
>Maxpersuasion affiliate program. You will regret it.
>
Butt Shark
'happens' to be defending Kenrick Cleveland also just 'happens' to be
posting from the same email address as Kenrick uses to advertise his
crap.
What a SLIMEBAG...
Yep. Looks like Kenrick is still very much a fraud.
Does anyone else wonder if this spammer Kenrick Cleveland is even
capable of telling the truth?
To sum it all up:
Kenrick Cleveland is a fraud
Kenrick Cleveland is a spammer
Kenrick Cleveland is a compulsive liar
Kenrick Cleveland is a SLIMEBAG!
Kenrick Cleveland IS the Dark Side of NLP
I(I delete spam]@xxx.com wrote in message news:<m9nkh0palu8o5ic7j...@4ax.com>...
Jeff Dean
He is very persuasive in person using the tools that he teaches.
I can't speak to the affiliate program as I haven't used it. My experience with him is he has been honest to a fault.
Jeff