What's the difference between Tom Vizzini's stuff and 'traditional' NLP?
Thomas
I have heard some of Tom's stuff and been a member of his newsgroup.
The golden bubble thing - I can not get it to work.
But I think some of his stuff is something about using symbols -
colors, shapes, etc. (I know I'm leaving out goal getting, anchoring,
etc.) I have been able to change my own state with ok intensity -
though I can't make it last...it's not permament.
Well, BUT: If the difference is in using symbols, I would like to put
it into 'traditional' NLP (And I do NOT like that
'traditional'-word...NLP shouldn't be traditional, it should be
evolving!)
And where would I like to put it? In the modalities, where we already
have:
1) Visual
2) Auditive
3) Kinesthetic
AND!
4) Internal dialoge
But if we can have internal dialoge where we use ABSTRACT WORDS, like
"consider", why not have a modality where we use SYMBOLS?
All the best!
Thomas
Tom Vizzini
"Thomas" <gje...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:afc7f435.03021...@posting.google.com...
> What IS the difference??
>
> I have heard some of Tom's stuff and been a member of his newsgroup.
>
> The golden bubble thing - I can not get it to work.
Good post about it on our group and we will see if we can get it to work for
you.
>
> But I think some of his stuff is something about using symbols -
> colors, shapes, etc. (I know I'm leaving out goal getting, anchoring,
> etc.) I have been able to change my own state with ok intensity -
> though I can't make it last...it's not permament.
What is it that you are doing?
>
> Well, BUT: If the difference is in using symbols, I would like to put
> it into 'traditional' NLP (And I do NOT like that
> 'traditional'-word...NLP shouldn't be traditional, it should be
> evolving!)
Not according to some :) Thinking in symbols is one part but the real
difference is getting the whole body/mind involved in the process. I don't
think we actively use symbols for much. We do use constructive hallucination
to get an outcome.
When I read about NLP processes. I see clients sitting in a chair and being
hypnotised to go through a process that is mainly linguistic in nature. Many
of the NLP models are lingustic models that are designed to change the
mental processes in a linear fashion.
But what if the mind is not orginized in that way? What if the mind is truly
set up in a 3 Dimesnional reality that has just as much structure as the
real world?
Submodalities touched on this. Things like the swish pattern move things
around by defining a place where people keep things. The problem the swish
pattern ran into was that it took mud and slammed it into water and expected
the mud to suddenly be water. The swish also presupposed that you had to use
the locations that poeple gave you. I found we were getting better results
by just telling people where to put things.
Even better we could just move the problem state out of the way and then put
what we wanted in that spot and the problem had no place to go. So what if
the laws of physics also applied onn the level of the mind?
So I go to see Dilts about 5 years ago. He is doing some real good stuff by
involving movement of the body while going through processes. We used much
of that premise in the Goal Getting tapes where instead of just imagining
your timeline, you actually walk through time. The same with Magical Rapport
ans the 3D Mind. Much of our Advanced Anchoring stuff is the prelude to the
3D Mind.
I also made a note of what we were doing. We were using linguistics less and
less and movement more and more. Treating the mind as a 3D model means less
verbal gymnastics and more results in my opinion.
One more difference is that we do not treat life as a sequential event. So
we treat the problems in life as if they are not a sequential events.
Problems live and thrive by feeding on how they are constructed rather than
being the end result of a strategy.
>
> And where would I like to put it? In the modalities, where we already
> have:
>
> 1) Visual
> 2) Auditive
> 3) Kinesthetic
>
> AND!
>
> 4) Internal dialoge
>
> But if we can have internal dialoge where we use ABSTRACT WORDS, like
> "consider", why not have a modality where we use SYMBOLS?
Actually I consider internal dialog as auditory. Symbols would be in visual
I do have a suggestion for one that we have been including.
Energetic. Yes we have been incorperating energy into our model and the
results are staggering. By energy I mean in the Qi Gong or Pranic healing
sense. So if you imagine that each state has an energy to it and that energy
signature is distinct, changing the energy will affect everything associated
with it.
As for symbols, I really don't use them that much. I prefer to look at
realities and contructive hallucinations to get results. Problems occur in
the same hallucinated reality. Energy gives them physical form in that
hallucination and projects it out onto our map of the world. Change that
form and the reality and the map change.
Have fun,
Tom
--
Tom Vizzini
3D Mind Seminar March 8 and 9
http://www.essential-skills.com/3dmindseminar.htm
http://www.Essential-Skills.com
Real Skills for the Real World
Advanced Rapport Mastery-The Secrets of Accelerated Magical Rapport Video
http://www.essential-skills.com/AdvancedRapport.htm
3 Dimensional Mind videos now available
http://www.essential-skills.com/3dmind.htm
Rex Steven Sikes
believe.
much of what is heralded as 'new' is a distinction with no real
distinction
and none which the claimants actually will demonstrate or discuss.
and until the 'new' claimers can demonstrate what is ACTUALLY different
and come clean on the misrepresentations about 'NLP' you probably will
never know.
Sorry - but it isn't worth the worry. Utilize whatever works and drop
the rest.
Best wishes!
Eto Demerzel
Vizzini's output was...
snip
> > I have heard some of Tom's stuff and been a member of his newsgroup.
> >
> > The golden bubble thing - I can not get it to work.
>
> Good post about it on our group and we will see if we can get it to work for
> you.
Oooh - what's this other newsgroup called?
E../
"Input, input; MORE INPUT!" - Johnny Five.
Tom Vizzini
"Eto Demerzel" <eto.de...@fijivillage.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.18bb1c8fe...@news-text.blueyonder.co.uk...
> In article <xG74a.9961$jR3.5...@news1.news.adelphia.net>, Tom
> Vizzini's output was...
> snip
> > > I have heard some of Tom's stuff and been a member of his newsgroup.
> > >
> > > The golden bubble thing - I can not get it to work.
> >
> > Good post about it on our group and we will see if we can get it to work
for
> > you.
>
> Oooh - what's this other newsgroup called?
Here is where you can sign up
http://www.essential-skills.com/3dmindseminar.htm
We have 2800 members from all over the world and an over 21,000 post
searchable archive.
Have fun
Vapor rub
news:afc7f435.03021...@posting.google.com:
> What IS the difference??
>
First of all, people that claim that there's no such thing as "traditional
NLP" are wrong. I have several NLP books here on my shelf by different
authors, all teaching basically the same things (eye accessing cues,
awkward strategy ellicitations, primitive anchoring, etc.) They did this
for years so obviously it can be called traditional NLP. Outside of a
therapy context most of these techniques are useless.
(If there was no such thing as traditional NLP, all those authors would be
teaching different things and calling it NLP. Not true.)
Smart people like Tom and Ross have sorted out what works best and easiest
in the real world. There's all sorts of differences when it come to
specific techniques: Anchoring, rapoort etc. This has been discussed in
great detail in tom's group so I won't bother to repeat it here
>
> The golden bubble thing - I can not get it to work.
Neither could I, at first. I had to come up with another hallucination that
I could relate to better. Now it's easy. For some people it works right
away, and few have to play around with different approaches to get the same
result.
VR
Rex Steven Sikes
cluck cluck, drivel drivel, cluck
Robert
> for years so obviously it can be called traditional NLP. Outside of a
> therapy context most of these techniques are useless.
Not true.
If the NLP:er is only trained by a technique oriented trainer as many
seems to be sadly then it comes down to that often.
If trained properly you rarely teach techniques since if you know what
you are doing and why it works you do not need to teach techniques.
Most dosnt however.
> (If there was no such thing as traditional NLP, all those authors would be
> teaching different things and calling it NLP. Not true.)
I teach NLP and also I do not teach NLP at the same time.
I blend NLP and its applications for a mix.
>
> Smart people like Tom and Ross have sorted out what works best and easiest
> in the real world. There's all sorts of differences when it come to
> specific techniques: Anchoring, rapoort etc. This has been discussed in
> great detail in tom's group so I won't bother to repeat it here
>
Now, this is interesting, see answer down below;
> > The golden bubble thing - I can not get it to work.
>
> Neither could I, at first. I had to come up with another hallucination that
> I could relate to better. Now it's easy. For some people it works right
> away, and few have to play around with different approaches to get the same
> result.
If the golden bubble was sorted out and nailed down as a model it
would work for everyone as suited.
Tom however dosnt claim it to be a model, it is only a hallucination
and useful.
However, to be having a model something else has to be true to make
that as a model.
It is a good startegy to teach GB it is not however a model.
This is also a point which is needed,
there has to be a common knowledge and language to discuss the same or
similar things or we are all hallucinating anyhow.
One reason NLP seperate itself from earlier methods in human history
are its universial form.
Its true for many different countrys and languages.
It isnt complete tho.
I hold Tom v in high regard for his accomplishments and how he is
focused on results.
btw, a review of the 3d mind video is coming so stay tuned.
/Robert
www.svensknlp.nu
>
> VR
Vapor rub
while others have reduced themselves to making barnyard noises.
VR
Rex Steven Sikes <r...@amazingrex.com> wrote in news:3E51579F.F6E74845
@amazingrex.com:
Jeff Crawford
This is getting terribly sad. To think you were once considered
somewhat influential in the NLP community (at least I thought so).
Now you just sound pathetic.
Perhaps you should stop posting here to avoid further embarrassment to
your reputation.
Jeff
Rex Steven Sikes <r...@amazingrex.com> wrote in message news:<3E51579F...@amazingrex.com>...
Rex Steven Sikes
Vapor rub wrote:
Rex Steven Sikes
I do nothing here that the boys haven't done for years to everyone else.
I'm waiting for a promised video tape to review and an answer to the
questions I posed. I am also waiting to see if the people who claim so
much will allow others to independently review their claims. Instead
they come back with more bs.
Instead of worrying about what I post here why don't you do some actual
research and see if anything I have posted is incorrect or misrepresents
then compare those to the claims you see widely wielded here for some
time.
If you choose not to respect me - fine - my reputation my suffer but
perhaps someone will actually start checking things out instead of
swallowing bs whole. You seem smart - why don't you do something about it.
My guess you are just going to see more crap, more waffling, more wild
claims and more misrepresentations about one's work and other's works and
reputations. Maybe my reputation will suffer but at least I stand up for something
and that is honesty and integrity in posting on the internet.
Do a historical search - find the parrot, find the subterfuge, find the manner in
which these boys have systematically misrepresented and name called for
years here. Just ask them to back it up without more sniveling and drivel.
Why don't you ask them to respond with decent answers instead of the bs
they come up with. Just once have them answer directly - my guess you
will never ever see that day. Why - because they can't or they don't want
to.
If they have something so great - support it with facts, figures, and anything
else besides their own claims. Anyone can shout "I am the greatest" and others
may sing praises too - shills can do that - heck we see enough of them here
let them verify their answers. It's time some one called the purveyors of
bs on their bs - and if you aren't going to do - who will.
Other than that it is meaningless - let them sell, let them hawk their wares
more power to them - just let them refrain from making inaccurate statements
about others, other's works, related fields. Let them demonstrate that they
know what they are talking about instead of answering a question with
'you flame me neener neener neerer' these two together have flamed every single
person on this group - likely - or name called, or bashed or insulted and when
asked to come up with actual answers - never do.
IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO NOTICE T HIS - or unwilling - well then you too have
much to learn. Otherwise you would ask them to fess up instead of telling
me your disappointment with me - you would be disappointed that no one can get
a straight direct honest answer. YOu would be appalled with their behavior -
mine - only mimics theirs - which most everyone can see already. That's the game
I do to them what they do to everyone else including me - and they can't take it.
They get their groupies and shills and otherwise well intentioned people to post
about me. I saw call them on their actions, their words, their claims.
Sadly nothing will change - but if I can aim a flashlight on their manner of using
this newsgroup and how they have used it for many years then my job is working
it is about awareness - about waking up. You have to be smart not to be gullible
in this arena - you have to have a little savvy perhaps not to be so mislead,
the key is to wake up. Become conscious and throw light on that which is hidden in
the open. You don't like what I do - fine - I don't like what they do. My reputation
may suffer because people have never known me to combat fire with fire -
so - they also know how the other boys never had any reputation to loose.
So what exactly are you saying and what do you stand for Jeff?
Rex Steven Sikes
FREE - I was told someone would send me a tape.
BUT if they don't have the courage - I'll live without it. Have
all this time.
Besides I couldn't sit through another boring video or audio
again. Lifeless training.People in chairs.
Sorry - just more drivel form a know nothing with an allias.
Puffa is right!
Hooka Puffa wrote:
Mark Jeffcoat
I don't particularly care about the differences between
Tom's stuff and "traditional NLP", but I have been following
his mailing list for a while, and I've noticed a common
pattern among those who can not get the golden bubble thing
to work: they skip most of the steps.
Tom has posted very thorough descriptions of his basic rapport
technique to this group before (not as complete as his
videos, but you're still getting more than what you paid
for); hit the following link for an example:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=DUKG9.5199%24ov6.2688240%40news2.news.adelphia.net
(Beware the line wrap if you need to cut/paste the link.)
Notice that the "Golden Bubble" visualization is the _last_
step in the process. Some people, especially those who hear
about it second-hand, seem to fixate on the "Golden Bubble"
part and forget the rest. It's a dangerous synecdoche; don't
avoid that trap.
--
Mark Jeffcoat
Austin, TX
ErosLA77
Wex...
Don't you have anything better to do with your time? Who is supporting your
family while you are busily spending HOURS flaming away here?
Carolyn back at the truck-stop again, slinging hash?
Get Laid NOW!
Ask me how!
Free Get Laid/Persuasion Newsletter
www.seduction.com
Rex Steven Sikes
where's the tape you threatened to send me for review - more drivel
neither of you can't back up your statements and claims - didn't think so.
flames - only thing you can snivel about - extra drivel
you have mastered cluck cluck and bs pretty darn well you two.
prove your statements about NLP - if you can. But you can't so you won't.
Obvious!!!
Petty attacks from rj - just more sniveling drivel.
you afraid your already tarnished rep is getting a worse wrap - impossible
snivel snivel rj that's all you can do - attack a girl - big boy rj, insult my
wife
why not pick on my kids too. Coward.
ErosLA77 wrote:
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Dates fill fast so book Rex Now!!! Call 262-790-1993
http://www.AmazingRex.com
Rex Sikes World's First Motivational Mind Reader - Corporate Speaker
Expert in persuasion & influence, specialist in non-verbal communication and
intuition.
"Mystery is the fundamental emotion that stands at
the cradle of true art and true science." Albert Einstein
ErosLA77
Wex you ignorant slut...
It's ignorant sluts like you going around, encouraging commies to come over
here with there broom handles to ravage your ignorant slut ass.
Wex, you are fit only for ridicule, you poor ignorant slut.
Goodnight, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
Robert
Well if you claim to have something which is a tool to work soemthing
is wrong you actually are saying that you are not doing rapport the GB
is...
This is also where most get things wrong, there is no magic with NLP.
It is you who make things work or not.
If you make things work then you made them work not the tool.
Tom is teaching anchoring, rapport, calibration and are more focused
on that since he claims most NLP trainings do teach sloppy stuff
regarding that.
I personally agree that there are people in the NLP business who
shouldnt be teaching.
Thats however exist also in other related fields.
Humans has a history of be all kind of levels in competence.
If you are good to do something dosnt mean you are good to teach the
same stuff.
Some are some isnt.
Things get problematic since people asume you just put the shoes on
and then you can play as Michael Jordan.
It isnt in the shoes.
It isnt in the GB.
It isnt in the X etc...
It is you draing the resources and state to make it work.
Rapport is only a matter of the state you are in...
Wrong state well...
Any well trained NLP Trainer should teach you that either directly or
indirectly.
Tom is making the consious mind engage into some of the stuff and that
isnt always a good choice.
Thats why people get it backwards from time to time.
They asume based on filtering what something means or does and dosnt
have the sensory data avilable.
/Robert
James Petry
news:v55g58m...@corp.supernews.com...
> It's a dangerous synecdoche;
That's a lovely word. I think it applies to just about every
single command in Unix.
> don't avoid that trap.
Slip of the tongue or NLP?
;-)
Best Regards,
James
--
"Be excellent to each other", Bill & Ted
John
>
> Wex...
Is your keyboard broken? It seems to mix up the R and the W...
> Don't you have anything better to do with your time?
And what about you? Or do you consider HOURS worth of infantile
newsgroup pollution as time well spent? Leading by example doesn't
seem to be your strongest point here.
> Get Laid NOW!
> Ask me how!
Q: "How to Get Laid NOW, Ross?"
A: "I don't have time for you right NOW. I must throw childish remarks
at people to show everyone what a grown man I am"
ErosLA77
Jack you ignorant slut...
It's ignorant sluts like you with your ignorant slut talk that encourage
commies to come over here with their broom handles and pleasure your ignorant
slut ass.
Goodnight,and have a pleasant tomorrow.
Get Laid NOW!
Ask me how!
Vapor Rub
@amazingrex.com:
> Sorry - just more drivel form a know nothing with an allias.
> Puffa is right!
>
> Hooka Puffa wrote:
>
>
>
A know nothing with an alias..
Notice what he's telling us about himself here. He's real big on having a
Name... Rex Steven Sikes presents a Rex Steven Sikes Production staring the
one and only Amazing Rex Steven Sikes. (Rex means "king" in Latin.) This is
a whole ego-driven metaprogram that is fueled by a basic insecurity.
VR
ErosLA77
Spot on, and exactly why his marketing AND his business failed.
I told him over and over, "NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR NAME!" Give them a benefit
oriented headline.
But he couldn't get out of his own way...
Ross
> From: docto...@my-deja.com (John)
> Organization: http://groups.google.com/
> Newsgroups: alt.psychology.nlp
> Date: 19 Feb 2003 03:29:44 -0800
> Subject: Re: What's the difference between Tom Vizzini's stuff and
> 'traditional'
>
> eros...@aol.com (ErosLA77) wrote:
Hey Doc....
Shut your fucking face, Uncle Fucka
You're a boner-biting bastard
Uncle Fucka
You're an Uncle Fucka
Yes that's true
Nobody fucks uncle's quite like you!
UNCLE FUCKA
FUCK YOU!
F-U-C-K
UNCLE FUCKA!
TONIGHT!
Rex Steven Sikes
best you can do
I am so dissappointed you can't do better
more drivel from ross
ErosLA77 wrote:
Rex Steven Sikes
You have great ability to miss the obvious.
Ask them to back up their statements -
you demonstrate your knowledge... I reamain unimpressed.
THanks for the feedback.
now add something ebsides drivel.
Interesting how you write answers for others ....hmmmmm
anyone else see the pattern here?
Rex Steven Sikes
Rex Steven Sikes
your slip is showing....
Hooka Puffa wrote:
> It has also been posted, many, many many times that the golden
> bubble is only a model, and if it doesn't work try changing
> some of the steps, colors, shapes or even the feelings. What
> most people, I have found, miss is the play state that is one
> of the biggest factors in the Golden Bubble. Your right there,
> most focus too much on the bubble and not everything else that
> needs to be in play. Great Post mark.
>
>
>
>
> Unka Hooka Puffa ( smoke is the only real thing in this world )
Rex Steven Sikes
more drivel from the pot
sticks and stones...
don't take this seriously - for me it's a joke...
Rex Steven Sikes
A distinction you can't grasp - because apparently you think it is about
$ and marketing. Your poor poor butty boy.
Nothing fails like success and I am having a great time.
But if you can't make it about me then you can't further obfuscate the
fact that you and know nothing erred and can't back up your
erroneous marketing claims. In other words you willingly lie about me,
my business and NLP.
You still haven't answerd my questions, sent your tape as you threatened to
or back up the comments. All you can do is name call and lie.
Amazing how much time you spend with little old insignificant, failure,
old school nlper me. Must again perceive me as some big threat or
you'd get on with the rest of the bs you push. Obviously you can't
stick to the truth so you continue to fabricat.
TELL us something we don't already know about you. You and your parrot
butty boy try so hard to be cutting edge... keep trying though you ain't even
close.
neene neener neerer weener... Look in that last sentence I modeled your
abilities
to post with integrity.
ErosLA77 wrote:
--
Rex Steven Sikes
I too know you know nothing. So can everyone else tell.
Was that meant to impress.
Rex Steven Sikes
personality.
Another person you heralded but were wrong about I guess.
Bet if we asked he's better off too without you around. I know I am.
Ross wrote:
--
ErosLA77
Rex you dried-up, hagged-out, ignorant slut.
It's ignorant sluts like you with your washed-up Hollywood-wanna-be/never-was
dreams that come in here, and hag-out this newsgroup with your ignorant slut
rambling and histrionics.
Why don't you just sew that cake-hole up and put the commies you service in
the backroom back out on the streets you withered-cootch ignorant slut-bag?
Goodnight, and have a pleasant tomorrow....
RJ
ErosLA77
Wex, you ignorant slut...
Now, how many folks attended your last official training? Wasn't it a grand
total of 3?
You ignorant slut.
Good night and enjoy butt-slamming Gordon Ray Parker.
ErosLA77
Wex, you are so desperate...sure, I'll send you ONE video..the FIRST video in
the Palo Alto video set...give me an address where mail will reach you in the
testicular-atrophy treatment center and I'll have Yates fire one out to you,
you withered-up, fagged-out, ignorant slut.
P.S. I'll even send one to Dr. Jackoff too!
P.P.S. YOU IGNORANT SLUT!
Mark Jeffcoat
>> don't avoid that trap.
>
> Slip of the tongue or NLP?
>
From _Persuasion Engineering_, Bandler and LaValle:
Reader take note! While it may seem that some of the
sentence structures in this book read as grammatically
incorrect, they are written for a purpose, as NLP
and grammar do not necessarily share the same structure.
Someday, I too hope to be able to pass off sloppy editing
as "NLP". But not today. I suspect you have to get famous
or something first.
ErosLA77
Shit Hooka..I bet he's so fucking broke, he lives in a DOUBLE WIDE or
something....
Hee hee hee hee...
Thomas
> Hi Thomas,
>
>
> "Thomas" <gje...@usa.net> wrote in message
> news:afc7f435.03021...@posting.google.com...
> > What IS the difference??
> >
> > I have heard some of Tom's stuff and been a member of his newsgroup.
> >
> > The golden bubble thing - I can not get it to work.
>
> you.
Thanks
> >
> > But I think some of his stuff is something about using symbols -
> > colors, shapes, etc. (I know I'm leaving out goal getting, anchoring,
> > etc.) I have been able to change my own state with ok intensity -
> > though I can't make it last...it's not permament.
>
> What is it that you are doing?
I can get rid of a state by imagining it as a color in my body and
letting it out in the room.
> >
> > Well, BUT: If the difference is in using symbols, I would like to put
> > it into 'traditional' NLP (And I do NOT like that
> > 'traditional'-word...NLP shouldn't be traditional, it should be
> > evolving!)
>
> Not according to some :) Thinking in symbols is one part but the real
> difference is getting the whole body/mind involved in the process. I don't
> think we actively use symbols for much. We do use constructive hallucination
> to get an outcome.
>
> When I read about NLP processes. I see clients sitting in a chair and being
> hypnotised to go through a process that is mainly linguistic in nature. Many
> of the NLP models are lingustic models that are designed to change the
> mental processes in a linear fashion.
>
> But what if the mind is not orginized in that way? What if the mind is truly
> set up in a 3 Dimesnional reality that has just as much structure as the
> real world?
>
> Submodalities touched on this. Things like the swish pattern move things
> around by defining a place where people keep things. The problem the swish
> pattern ran into was that it took mud and slammed it into water and expected
> the mud to suddenly be water. The swish also presupposed that you had to use
> the locations that poeple gave you. I found we were getting better results
> by just telling people where to put things.
>
> Even better we could just move the problem state out of the way and then put
> what we wanted in that spot and the problem had no place to go. So what if
> the laws of physics also applied onn the level of the mind?
But "where" the state is is still something you imagine right? The
lenses you see through are still imagined in some way, aren't they?
> So I go to see Dilts about 5 years ago. He is doing some real good stuff by
> involving movement of the body while going through processes. We used much
> of that premise in the Goal Getting tapes where instead of just imagining
> your timeline, you actually walk through time.
That's 'common NLP' in Denmark.
> The same with Magical Rapport
> ans the 3D Mind. Much of our Advanced Anchoring stuff is the prelude to the
> 3D Mind.
>
> I also made a note of what we were doing. We were using linguistics less and
> less and movement more and more. Treating the mind as a 3D model means less
> verbal gymnastics and more results in my opinion.
>
> One more difference is that we do not treat life as a sequential event. So
> we treat the problems in life as if they are not a sequential events.
> Problems live and thrive by feeding on how they are constructed rather than
> being the end result of a strategy.
>
> >
> > And where would I like to put it? In the modalities, where we already
> > have:
> >
> > 1) Visual
> > 2) Auditive
> > 3) Kinesthetic
> >
> > AND!
> >
> > 4) Internal dialoge
> >
> > But if we can have internal dialoge where we use ABSTRACT WORDS, like
> > "consider", why not have a modality where we use SYMBOLS?
>
> Actually I consider internal dialog as auditory. Symbols would be in visual
> I do have a suggestion for one that we have been including.
But what about dissociation and association, I don't think this should
be called a submodality...in case it is, it involves all modalities,
not just the visual.
> Energetic. Yes we have been incorperating energy into our model and the
> results are staggering. By energy I mean in the Qi Gong or Pranic healing
> sense. So if you imagine that each state has an energy to it and that energy
> signature is distinct, changing the energy will affect everything associated
> with it.
>
> As for symbols, I really don't use them that much. I prefer to look at
> realities and contructive hallucinations to get results. Problems occur in
> the same hallucinated reality. Energy gives them physical form in that
> hallucination and projects it out onto our map of the world. Change that
> form and the reality and the map change.
>
> Have fun,
>
> Tom
>
>
> --
> Tom Vizzini
> 3D Mind Seminar March 8 and 9
> http://www.essential-skills.com/3dmindseminar.htm
> http://www.Essential-Skills.com
> Real Skills for the Real World
> Advanced Rapport Mastery-The Secrets of Accelerated Magical Rapport Video
> http://www.essential-skills.com/AdvancedRapport.htm
> 3 Dimensional Mind videos now available
> http://www.essential-skills.com/3dmind.htm
Rex Steven Sikes
the force is with you
we quake... scary stuff you write...
you and the butty boys...truly sad.
can't back up your claims
so you lie and name call
your record stands
a dolt posts testimonials over and over
big deal...
yeah enlightenment March 24, 1983
what of it?
Wow I use parrot then you do
I use drivel then you do
you are very original - just like the butty boys
back up the claims with some evidence - reasonable request
you --- incapable
dinosaur nlp - geez rj used that in the early 90's
your slip still shows...
drivel drivel and more drivel from the camp that can't back up
their claims.
That's sad - the best they can do is invent bs claims,
and post testimonials, and have shills ---respectable hardly
worth anything - doubtful
bs - insurmountable evidence of knowing nothing
narcissistic butty boys.
I only continue to spar with the dolts just to rib them or
provoke them as they do everyone else -
they could actually offer to speak truth but they lie better
so actually expecting them to be honest is not something
we are likely to ever see.
So I am the thorn...
you are the side --- got you.
Hooka Puffa wrote:
> More original than you could ever hope for, true my slip is
> showing but maybe I could become a magician and make it
> disappear...wait, never mind, I'd better go see a real
> magician. Still teaching that old dried up dinosaur mirroring
> bullshit to get rapport??? Watch out Rex the glacier is
> coming. Damn sorry ya couldn't run fast enough.
Tom Vizzini
"Thomas" <gje...@usa.net> wrote in message
> >
> > What is it that you are doing?
>
> I can get rid of a state by imagining it as a color in my body and
> letting it out in the room.
Ok Here is the problem. You are not replacing it with anything so you are
leaving an open spot for anything to show up in. Most times the old state
will slide back in. So here is what you do. Imagine the state leaving your
body , in whatever way you do that. Them imagine a state you would rather
feel coming into the spot where the old state was.
> >
> > Even better we could just move the problem state out of the way and then
put
> > what we wanted in that spot and the problem had no place to go. So what
if
> > the laws of physics also applied onn the level of the mind?
>
> But "where" the state is is still something you imagine right? The
> lenses you see through are still imagined in some way, aren't they?
Yes it is nothing more than a constructive hallucination. That hallucination
gives you unconscious the directions that you want it to follow. It is a
real as anything else so just use it :)
>
> > So I go to see Dilts about 5 years ago. He is doing some real good stuff
by
> > involving movement of the body while going through processes. We used
much
> > of that premise in the Goal Getting tapes where instead of just
imagining
> > your timeline, you actually walk through time.
>
> That's 'common NLP' in Denmark.
Tha's great. It was not and still is not common in the US. 5 Years ago I was
ignoring that aspect.
>
> >
> > Actually I consider internal dialog as auditory. Symbols would be in
visual
> > I do have a suggestion for one that we have been including.
>
> But what about dissociation and association, I don't think this should
> be called a submodality...in case it is, it involves all modalities,
> not just the visual.
It isn't. It is a perceptual position.
Have fun
Stephen Embden
somewhat influential in the NLP community (at least I thought so).
Now you just sound pathetic. ]
Did it sound less pathetic, coming from other quarters, at a lower volume?
I like to think that I have a highly developed bullshit radar, so I am not
surprised when I see most people registering a signature on it. Through my
journey with NLP I was initially surprised to find most NLPers registering
as large a signature as any other group. Then, eventually, I stopped being
surprised, and came to expect it.
So, I got a real shock when I interacted and further observed Rex. There
was
no sign of ego, malice or vindictiveness, that I could see. When I
cross-check most people, the facade usually falls apart. When I
cross-checked Rex, I found a surprising congruence, and a truly kind and
honest nature. Brilliant communicator, to boot. Maybe just the limits of
my perception, but these are my findings.
Maybe, just maybe, a few people are more concerned with integrity, than
image. The persisting pettiness and dishonesty I have seen too often, from
those who ought to know better, is what is truly sad.
In my opinion, Rex has integrity and will even suffer damage to his own
reputation to highlight an undesirable situation. He does not merely take
the easy way, or gather intelligence on the gullibility of the audience, in
order to get away with bullshitting. I don't know much of the background to
this current rankle, but I am impressed that Rex has an uncommon ability to
see past smoke-screens, having tested this.
As for his actions being driven by, ego or envy, I have seen him present his
insights in ways that it would be difficult for many to credit it to him,
subtle, and consciously transparent, so that others could gain
understandings, without knowing who to credit it to. For the
life of me, I can not see much scope for personal gain, kudos, or even
acknowledgement, in this policy.
Now, either he is a better actor than he is being given credit for, or he is
for real. So, Jeff, maybe if you ran a movie of a person's behaviour,
rather
than just considering a snapshot of their actions, your views may change.
Then again, maybe not. Just my own thoughts. You make up your own mind.
Paul
the accusing, and therefore he should properly research the material and
seminars of both Tom and Ross before saying publically that their
marketing is a lie.
This would also include buying videos. IMHO it's up to him to prove his
accusations are correct and not the other two.
ErosLA77
'traditional'
>Date: Thu, Feb 20, 2003 9:52 AM
>Message-id: <b334lr$986$00$1...@news.t-online.com>
>
>Perhaps Rex's motives are honest, but he is still doing the one doing
>the accusing, and therefore he should properly research the material and
>
>seminars of both Tom and Ross before saying publically that their
>marketing is a lie.
Exactly. The irony is, HE is the one asserting things ABSENT investigation
but he has the gall to posture as someone who is scientific in his approach.
Rex is trying to hold up a persona of being the guardian of this NG against
false claims; his real motive is simply his wounded ego at NOT being in the
spotlight and being a dinosaur who has not innovated anything in YEARS.
Sorry, Wex...but your shrivelled, atrophied NLPenis is showing through your
frilly pink panties.
Good night, and have a pleasant tomorrow.
Robert
> hypnotised to go through a process that is mainly linguistic in nature. Many
> of the NLP models are lingustic models that are designed to change the
> mental processes in a linear fashion.
I think thats very common in NLP trainings where trainers is doing
technique oriented NLP.
Step 1 and so on..
And also applied in a mechanical way.
Those who do really good NLP seems to have a good body of knowledge in
bodybalancing. Massage, acupuncture, kinesiology, feldenkrais, and
similar methods.
One of the things which drives are the kinestetic bodymovement with
motoric movement where you involve the structure of body with
thinking.
A move foreward in body affects balance and visual modalites and are
common to motivation and focus.
Most have little clue whats really possible to do with really good NLP
knowledge.
/Robert
Tom Vizzini
"Robert" <rob...@svensknlp.nu> wrote in message
news:627ff765.03022...@posting.google.com...
> > When I read about NLP processes. I see clients sitting in a chair and
being
> > hypnotised to go through a process that is mainly linguistic in nature.
Many
> > of the NLP models are lingustic models that are designed to change the
> > mental processes in a linear fashion.
>
> I think thats very common in NLP trainings where trainers is doing
> technique oriented NLP.
> Step 1 and so on..
> And also applied in a mechanical way.
Yes it is common and is one of the aspects of 'traditional' NLP.
>
> Those who do really good NLP seems to have a good body of knowledge in
> bodybalancing. Massage, acupuncture, kinesiology, feldenkrais, and
> similar methods.
I agree. Body/mind connections are very important.
>
> One of the things which drives are the kinestetic bodymovement with
> motoric movement where you involve the structure of body with
> thinking. A move foreward in body affects balance and visual modalites and
are
> common to motivation and focus.
>
> Most have little clue whats really possible to do with really good NLP
> knowledge.
Well I think a few more poeple know now :)
Rex Steven Sikes
I took exception at some statements and asked that they be proved.
Since then - no proof has been forth coming.
What am I accusing. I am asking that one verify their claims
about NLP and what the call traditional NLP, I am asking that they verify
things like - breathing is too hard, all nlp trainers teach out dated stuff,
that this is newest and best - so answer the questions and answer the whys.
I have said I will sing praises if the new stuff is new. How about having those
who make incorrect statements about material and others correct theirs?
Someone lies about me and you say I should prove my it.
My challenge is on the truthfulness of marketing claims. You don't think it is
reasonable to
ask the person making the claim to back it up? When they don't but avoid it,
name call and make up lies, insult someone's wife - I should prove it?
I keep saying have a great workshop - just offer the evidence of how you
come up with your claims, your disparaging remarks, your statistics and
percentages and please don't post another testimonial since that is not what
is being requested - why can't the person making the claim offer the proof
without all the bs.
Why aren't they just forth coming... why don't they just say here it is....
What is there to hide? Hmmmmmmmmm?
What they do know is if you tell a lie enough times and loud enough it may be
accepted and believed. That is why the constant themes keep coming up from them.
No evidence, no facts, no demonstration of integrity or honesty just more
repeating of the same lies.
They both know if you yell loud enough you'll be heard. It doesn't matter what
you say as long as you claim it. No news is bad news so make up anything.
Fall out brings more business. A lie repeated becomes the truth... spread
misinformation and accuse everyone of flaming you because most will never
actually go back and check they will just accept what is written by you about
others.
Heck we have model of marketing here that they could market - and do since they
model it out.
I did something simple. I said that what you describe is not new. They screamed
it
was. I said prove it - they can't. They reprint testimonials which is the height
of childishness. Who has to print and post their own testimonials ---
Who is enamored by their own testimonials. "Look at me Look at me I'm great
another person said so! Yipee I get results Look at me Look at me Look at me" Sad
frankly.
They said NLP was x, breathing was x, eye access patterns were x
that nlp trainers 90% x and I said back that up show us where you get your
info. Tom attacked me vociferously on another news group when I suggested
people learn about the triune brain and study some research related to
hemispheric
functioning and accelerated learning. How the mind and body work as one. He
ridiculed and
bashed all science as a waste - go check. Yeah most probably no one will.
He doesn't even understand the body integration and cross hemispheric functioning
of
contra lateral movements and ipsolateral movements and processes. He doesn't get
what happens when you laugh or how to break people of a mind set by having them
act outside their box. So I ask answer questions cause he says I never ask and he
doesn't
do that. Have you ever seen him ask a question of the people he is accusing of
not asking questions?
PAAAAAAALLLLLLEEEEEEAAAAASSSSSSEEEEEEE.........
I ask them to verify or answer questions and
They said no and insult my wife = reprint testimonials or call me names.
Ross has lost every single one of his friends or professional acquaintances.
He has systematically dismissed insulted and denounced anyone and everyone
who he has trained with, learned from, worked with or hung with. Consider this
- surely all the people Ross chose and then unchose must be the problem.
All the people who are no crap according to Ross were people
he validated for at first. Every single one.
There is a name for this - and another we know has done pretty much likewise.
Except tom and kim and they are soon to be gone too. So tell me does ross have
a problem with everyone or is everyone else just wrong. He offered an application
of nlp to guys.
Nothing new there just great marketing. And as such still valuable.
But no he has to be the sole great innovator as does tom. Look at their behavior
for
goodness sake and tell me you think it is consistent with rational Inet behavior.
Even with all his faults I like aspects of Ross and I have also had issues with
some of his
materials and practices and behaviors from the start. That is no surprise.
But yes I don't like his behavior or tom's - they have not verified their
statements.
I shouldn't have to call for it - the members of this forum should, anyone
looking into
having access to information on a subject should expect to get reasonable honest
answers.
But given the childishness of the statements in the first place, ones which
demonstrate
little actual understanding or experience in what they are talking about I
suspect they
can't.
Yeah I can flame them - but they have flamed everyone for years. So why not ask
them
to fess up. Defend their practices if you choose or ask them too.
BTW anyone can put together a program and get results. ANYONE. That is not so
special.
Everyone I know is and has promoted getting results. That is not so special. A
new twist
on an old approach may be worthwhile but so what it isn't that special. The only
thing that
is so special is what tom and ross want you to think about them. Consider this
every single professional friend of ross's is no longer...
every one he highly touted --- he now defames...
is it that everyone duped him - in which case he really has a problem
or is the problem perhaps with ross and ross's head and that is
why he can't stand anyone else knowing more than he and
that is why he behaves as he does... the tantrums, the hack lines, the insults
he is lonely, in a world of his own unmaking...
I told rj to use his skills to lead me to his way of thinking- can he, did he -
no. Too busy
calling me an ignorant slut. I like ross but really...
Ask them to prove their statements. Why don't you???
Rex Steven Sikes
Hooka Puffa wrote:
> Yawn......your beginning to bore me....
good glad I can be of service - go to sleep
> .not much challenge flaming an idiot.
>
that's why I haven't flamed you Poofta
ErosLA77
'traditional'NLP?
>From: Rex Steven Sikes r...@amazingrex.com
>Date: Thu, Feb 20, 2003 2:40 PM
>Message-id: <3E555944...@amazingrex.com>
Rex, you ignorant slut,
>Ross has lost every single one of his friends or professional acquaintances.
I think it is amazing for you to claim you have such extensive knowledge of my
friendships and professional associations.
Hey..Yates is my friend AND my business partner and we have been doing
business since 1990..that's 13 years..and we are still going strong. If
anything, he has an even larger role and even greater contribution.
I am still VERY friendly with John and Kathleen Lavalle; they are always
welcome at my events, and I would like to think vice a versa. While I have not
agreed with everything Bandler does, and I cannot honestly call him "friend",
I can say from reports I have gotten he still thinks highly of me AND MY WORK!
Now, as you well know, when you do business, people come and people go. And
sometimes, those who are skilled and talented are NOT team players and need to
be canned..as in the case of a certain "Doc". A talented man, but he just can't
play on a team. And other talented folks who have come and gone who had some
"ethical issues" or were, frankly, as you are, prima donnas or loose cannons.
THAT IS PAR FOR THE COURSE IN ANY BUSINESS and certainly more than common in
this one. For that, I make no apology.
Now, you will note Wex, that not ONE of these people has ever accused me of
being dishonest, unethical, violating any agreements, failing to pay or
perform. Not ONE has said that ****I***** ever failed to keep a promise I made
to them.
You would think if I were the unethical or troubled scum-bucket you try to
make me out as, at least ONE of these folks would have some tales to tell in
that regard...but all I see is a screaming void of silence.
In fact, in one case, I shit canned a former mentor for ripping off MY
students; for taking advantage of my recommending him by taking orders and
money for his courses and then he DID NOT FUFILL those orders. Yes, this guy
had a DRUG problem. Somehow, this is supposed to be MY ethical failing?
Again...Wex..show me ONE instance of ANY former business associate accusing
me of dishonest business practice, cheating them. Just ONE. You will not find
it. Because I have always scrupulously kept my agreements and that is all
anyone can expect.
>He has systematically dismissed insulted and denounced anyone and everyone
>who he has trained with, learned from, worked with or hung with.
Again, this is demonstrably untrue. I am sorry if you are troubled by your
diminished stature here, but must you resort to such frothy brown lies? I have
never insulted the Lavalles; I think John Lavalle is the best NLP trainer on
the planet, surpassing even Bandler, and have said so publicly in more than one
forum on more than one occasion. As for the people I have worked with or hung
with; goodness, how can you even proclaim to know who they all are, let alone
what the results have been with them? What shameless omnipotence you claim.
>Except tom and kim and they are soon to be gone too.
Since you proclaim these "truths" at the same time claiming to have an outlook
based on evidence and "proof" I would like you to present what you base this
accusation upon. Tom and Kim are my best friends, have contributed to me as
friends and also have assisted my students in better learning what ***I***
teach. In fact, Wex, I have been fast friends with Kim for 9 years now and
only grow to appreciate her as a human daily; and she does a HILARIOUS
imitation of your awesomely distracting speech defect; somewhere between
Marlene Dietrich and Daffy Duck, I would have to say.
Speaking of Tom and Kim, they are turning NLP on its collective ear, teaching
real-world, easy to use, kick ass applications while you are collecting dust. I
am very, VERY proud of them both and what they have built and continue to
build.
Now, here is something else: Tom and I have had some knock out, drag thru the
mud disagreements. But we always come back to listening, communicating and
RESPECT. Why? Because ultimately, we both want only what works..we want
RESULTS. Not pontificating, jargon, and orthodoxy.
>every single professional friend of ross's is no longer...
>every one he highly touted --- he now defames...
More lies from you Wex. I'm sorry you couldn't cut it in the field and ran
away. That's not "defaming" you, merely telling the truth. You failed out. Had
3 people at your last and final training. Boo hoo. Live with it.
Calling you a prima donna and a failure is defamation; it's fair comment and
indeed accurate comment into the bargain. If you think otherwise, I invite your
lawsuit. I've sued someone for defamation..and I won. How about you?
>he is lonely, in a world of his own unmaking...
Aha ha ha ha...oh, dude..if you only know how GROSSLY perverted it is the kind
of young chicks I can pull as an ugly 44 year old fart, you probably WOULD die
of a heart attack. HA HA HA HA HA. Dude, anytime, anywhere, if you want to have
a contest to see who can pull chicks, lay out the cash and I am there. I will
even come out to freezing Wis-con-sin. Name the place and time ya lisping
twerp!
>I told rj to use his skills to lead me to his way of thinking- can he, did
>he -
>no. T
I offered to send you the FIRST video of the Palo Alto video set, ya dumb
twerp. Now, post an address..speaking of the PA videos, I just now got this
testical-moan-ial...so read it and weep, Wexie!
I've finished watching the Palo Alto tapes and I'm convinced that the
ad copy was true and that my success will at least triple.
First of all, these tapes do not replace the BHSC as much as they
compliment it. Think of the BHSC being the "Yang" and PA being
the "Yin" of a Yin/Yang symbol. With these two models, I think an
SSer can handle almost any situation that comes up. (Except one of
the models happens to be really frickin' easy!)
The editing is really tight. The notes are very generous. There's
lots of specific language given which I appreciate. Ross just jumps
right into it. These tapes don't have those.. major digressions that
had slowed previous presentations down to a crawl. Ross holds his own
(heh) quite comfortably; and he's very loose and relaxed. I was
amazed to see that even though he was taking so many questions, he
was still on track the whole time. Even though he's based on that Tom
Cruise character in Magnolia! (Kidding.)
Energy Withhold:
This was a huge revelation for me. It explained to me what all
those "heros" and people that I admire possess. For example, I'm a
big fan of Bob Dylan and I realized that he's been using this
principle for 40 years: He's there, but elusive, like Garbo. Now I
know what the people who have catured the collective imagination of
the world are doing, and I can do the same thing, thanks!
New SS Beliefs and the State of Uninsultibility:
The new SS beliefs are awesome. I read them on the list last year,
but I couldn't relate to them. Now I get it. I was able to install
the top 4 mentioned (there are more in the notes) quite quickly and
set up my energy and armor. Felt really damn good! It's a nice clean,
natural state that doesn't feel artificial or "pumped up". This stuff
works really well with the 3D Mind because now I can "lock in" the
constructs/resources through time. (I can see how Tom and Kim have
been a real positive influence on Ross. I want to thank them for
helping make SS easier.)
If you've seen some of my previous posts, I was skeptical of the new
model. That was because I didn't understand it. But I bit the bullet
and ordered the tapes anyway. The most striking feature of the new
model is how easy it is to understand and apply. The principles
behind it ARE complex, with each piece taking care of like 3 or 4
different things simultaneously, BUT the actual applications are
simple. I doubt it will take me long to absorb the different elements
and use them in the real world. As I watched, I kept thinking, "it
can't be this easy," but it made so much sense.
Anyway, I could go on and on, but I don't want to embarrass Ross by
calling him a freakin' genius. In short, I've never been more excited
about a tape set. I can't wait to master these skills!
Brother Lono
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Rex Steven Sikes
friends
you haven't dismissed or alienated yet. Geez more self serving bs. And a
testimonial on top
of it to prove your worth - how sad. Another testimonial. How unimortant.
You really are self absorbed - why not address and stick to the issues I raised
and leave
all your conniving bs out. Answer the questions - answer butty boy's ignorant
claims
about nlp and nlp trainers. Can't cause neither of you have yet.
The only thing I have ever claimed about you lonely boy is that you can't back up
butty
boy's erroneous statements. Never said anything about your failure to pay up blah
blah blah.
You really side step. Stick to the point. Unless of course you have something you
are ashamed
of that we don't know and don't care about.
I don't care how wonderful you think you are. You think you are the gift to men,
to nlp
to the newsgroup blah, blah, blah - you marketed a successful program. Big deal.
You don't have much upstairs as far as I could ever tell and you still don't have
any
real common sense. No friends, no professionals who care a whit about you or your
work, you are heralded as slime and a lowlife, can't every prove your stuff works
in
person on on TV - so as far as I am concerned you have no credibilty and no cause
to speak of anything but selling other people's work NLP work as yours. True you
crafted some scripts or had students do it but what in SS didn't originate with
someone else?
Hey I don't even have a problem with that - for the most part you said what it
was.
I respect that. I even think marketing to your peer group was brillant. I even
think
your shoddy tactics work. Dan Kennedy, Mark Joyner you ain't. You are good at
writing - just really really poor at being a friend and living. My hat's off to
your so
called accomplishments - I'd rather live a happy fulfilled life than post
testimonials.
But when you have nothing else, no real claim to anything - I guess you and butty
boy
do what you have to do.
Just back up your bs or get off the pot...
Anytime we can get you ranting as you do I know you have nothing more
Yikes
"ErosLA77" <eros...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20030220141823...@mb-ba.aol.com...
> >Subject: Re: What's the difference between Tom Vizzini's stuff and
> 'traditional'
> >From: Paul pa...@purestar.com
> >Date: Thu, Feb 20, 2003 9:52 AM
> >Message-id: <b334lr$986$00$1...@news.t-online.com>
> >
> >Perhaps Rex's motives are honest, but he is still doing the one doing
> >the accusing, and therefore he should properly research the material and
> >
> >seminars of both Tom and Ross before saying publically that their
> >marketing is a lie.
> Exactly. The irony is, HE is the one asserting things ABSENT
investigation
> but he has the gall to posture as someone who is scientific in his
approach.
I vividly remember Rex discrediting the scientific process when it was
suggested that NLP be put to the test, or at least one of the models, ie;
the phobia cure. He had some long drawn excuse as to why, which makes what
RJ says below more believable.
Yikes
"Rex Steven Sikes" <r...@amazingrex.com> wrote in message
news:3E555944...@amazingrex.com...
> Please list for me exactly what my accusations are.
>
> I took exception at some statements and asked that they be proved.
Why now? How about the statements made in your prior marketing that were no
more than marketing hype? Hmmm...come learn to be a relationship expert,
lol!
> Since then - no proof has been forth coming.
What was it that you asked? Sorry, but I wasn't priveliged to the beginning
of this thread, however the banter has me intrigued. Can you explain what
your mission and motives are? Nothing of the sort to revive your career,
could it be?
> What am I accusing. I am asking that one verify their claims
> about NLP and what the call traditional NLP, I am asking that they verify
> things like - breathing is too hard, all nlp trainers teach out dated
stuff,
> that this is newest and best - so answer the questions and answer the
whys.
How can one prove that nlp trainers teach out dated stuff? I don't see a
testable variable in all of that, that could stand up to scientific method,
Rex? Are you using an incorrect testing variable to prove something that is
not provable, thereby pretending to have the "public" interest at heart,
after using the very same marketing when it served you? Huh, are YOU?
> I have said I will sing praises if the new stuff is new. How about having
those
> who make incorrect statements about material and others correct theirs?
> Someone lies about me and you say I should prove my it.
prove my it...
> My challenge is on the truthfulness of marketing claims.
How would that be proven to you then?
>You don't think it is
> reasonable to ask the person making the claim to back it up? When they
don't but avoid it,
> name call and make up lies, insult someone's wife - I should prove it?
> I keep saying have a great workshop - just offer the evidence of how you
> come up with your claims, your disparaging remarks, your statistics and
> percentages
When did YOU ever use statistics and percentages to back up anything you
claimed to be true. Can you please show us statistics and percentages that
back up the claim that you can read minds, mr amazing?
>and please don't post another testimonial since that is not what
> is being requested - why can't the person making the claim offer the proof
> without all the bs.
> Why aren't they just forth coming... why don't they just say here it
is....
> What is there to hide? Hmmmmmmmmm?
You tell us what there isn't to hide, ie; your oh so obvious and transparent
motives. Pissy loosers like you make me laugh!
>Tom attacked me
Pure projection. You're simply getting a dose of your medicine, since your
motives aren't as "pure" as you are attempting to present them as.
> He doesn't even understand the body integration and cross hemispheric
functioning
> of
> contra lateral movements and ipsolateral movements and processes.
Judging by your posture, neither do you.
> I ask them to verify or answer questions and
> They said no and insult my wife = reprint testimonials or call me names.
Quit bitching. At one time RJ was your friend because you guys sucked each
other off by complementing each others approaches in order to trade
customers with each other. Now that you haven't got customers to trade, he
is no more of use for you.
> Ross has lost every single one of his friends or professional
acquaintances.
Cause and effect, quite simple really.
> He has systematically dismissed insulted and denounced anyone and everyone
> who he has trained with, learned from, worked with or hung with.
Part of climbing the proverbial ladder of success, ain't it?
>Consider this
> - surely all the people Ross chose and then unchose must be the problem.
> All the people who are no crap according to Ross were people
> he validated for at first. Every single one.
> There is a name for this - and another we know has done pretty much
likewise.
> Except tom and kim and they are soon to be gone too. So tell me does ross
have
> a problem with everyone or is everyone else just wrong. He offered an
application
> of nlp to guys.
> Nothing new there just great marketing. And as such still valuable.
> But no he has to be the sole great innovator as does tom. Look at their
behavior
> for goodness sake and tell me you think it is consistent with rational
Inet behavior.
You're no better dude.
> Yeah I can flame them - but they have flamed everyone for years.
Monkey see, monkey do, monkey is a monkey. You're a monkey!
I don't think Rex's motives are honest at all.
Robert
> suggested that NLP be put to the test, or at least one of the models, ie;
> the phobia cure. He had some long drawn excuse as to why, which makes what
> RJ says below more believable.
One of the problems with testing scientific are the notion of removing
the states which the person has when working with this.
I would guess if James Randi would test NLP he would find it absent of
really useful things.
I guess John Grinder are trying to put NLP into science which it is
also.
It is like SS you only need to make a guy very secure and he can make
anything work.
No need of advance patterns or anything special.
No special strategies and such.
Science has value since it has moved us trough the dark ages.
If for example NLP works it would be able to handle the heat of
scientific investigation.
Then again it is also who does NLP and the skills.
Really good NLP:ers isnt what you find everwhere.
/Robert
Yikes
Same can be said of any profession "Really good *physicists* isn't what you
find everywhere." While this can be true on many levels it still doesn't
address the misrepresentation of Rex's motives. Having nothing to gain from
either side...not ever having trained with any of them, I find Rex's stance
quite hypocritical - that is all. I think he's attempting to conveniently
use and hide behind the scientific "method" when it serves his ill-intent or
purposes of attempting to bring down what he might perceive to be
competition. It's sad to see really, as I did once get some value from Rex's
posts, but he has seemingly fallen to levels of stupidity that would
invalidate anything intelligent he has once said.
"Robert" <rob...@svensknlp.nu> wrote in message
news:627ff765.0302...@posting.google.com...
Robert
> Robert,
> Same can be said of any profession "Really good *physicists* isn't what you
> find everywhere." While this can be true on many levels it still doesn't
> address the misrepresentation of Rex's motives.
Dont know them well enough to tell.
>Having nothing to gain from
> either side...not ever having trained with any of them, I find Rex's stance
> quite hypocritical - that is all. I think he's attempting to conveniently
> use and hide behind the scientific "method" when it serves his ill-intent or
> purposes of attempting to bring down what he might perceive to be
> competition. It's sad to see really, as I did once get some value from Rex's
> posts, but he has seemingly fallen to levels of stupidity that would
> invalidate anything intelligent he has once said.
It might also be that Rex is mirroring whats done by others.
Drawing the conclusions you make based on internet postings is far
fetched.
To much cause effect.
Science isnt a proven metodh other than to prove whats been there and
not whats going to be.
a fortune cokkie anyone?
/Robert
Yikes Sykes
> It might also be that Rex is mirroring whats done by others.
A wise man once said, "Stupid is as STUPID does..."
> Drawing the conclusions you make based on internet postings is far
> fetched. To much cause effect.
Based on what?
> Science isnt a proven metodh other than to prove whats been there and
> not whats going to be.
So using it as a screen to discredit someone, after openly discrediting it
in and of itself, is dubious!
Yikes!!
Rex Steven Sikes
making a fool of yourself.
Yikes wrote:
--
Rex Steven Sikes
the mirror does nothing ---
science does not validate all of nlp, nor does it dismiss all of nlp. nlp may
not be scientific - research into nlp may be.
I am all for research into nlp - good research, some has been done, some is
poor. So the scientific jury is out on NLP.
this has nothing to do with the proof I have asked for. I have asked him to
back up statements about 'traditional nlp'
what is wrong with mirroring, rapport startegies in general, what he knows
about eye accessing, his coments and statistics about other trainers and
students etc. I agree with him - in fact he can go back and find other of my
posts where I have said much of what he has prior to him - yes there are some
poor trainers, yes some students are ill equipped after leaving a seminar
etc. My request has to do with him verifying his statements - not providing
scientific research - butty doesn't like science or research or brain or
communication models. To say something isn't spatial anchoring etc. is to not
understand the levels at which things operate. I can say I am not using nlp
patterns while writing this ... I bet some could be found.
Yikes Sykes wrote:
--
Robert
> "Robert" <rob...@svensknlp.nu> wrote in message
> news:627ff765.03022...@posting.google.com...
>
> > It might also be that Rex is mirroring whats done by others.
>
> A wise man once said, "Stupid is as STUPID does..."
Come on give me a breake here.
> > Drawing the conclusions you make based on internet postings is far
> > fetched. To much cause effect.
>
> Based on what?
You tell me.
> > Science isnt a proven metodh other than to prove whats been there and
> > not whats going to be.
>
> So using it as a screen to discredit someone, after openly discrediting it
> in and of itself, is dubious!
Isnt that langauge and framing?
As stated I dont know the whole issue about those people.
I can only say about science in general which are to prove what has been not to be.
If not anything new would never be found or invented.
/Robert
>
> Yikes!!
Adam Sargant
> Just a reflecting pool...
>
> the mirror does nothing ---
>
> To say something isn't spatial anchoring etc. is to not
> understand the levels at which things operate. I can say I am not using
nlp
> patterns while writing this ... I bet some could be found.
Yup. The "is or is not NLP" debate misses the mark. You can analyse anything
with NLP by virtue of what NLPer's do. Tom may not explicitly build
anchoring into his model, but viewed through an NLP perspective, anchoring
is present. If I read the positive descriptions of the 3D mind model
correctly, Tom can proudly say he has simplified process and doesn't need to
teach anchoring explicitly, but to say it doesn't involve anchoring at all
is IMO a misunderstanding of the different logical geographies. The 3D mind
map is a terrain map, the NLP map is a geology map, say. I use different
maps according to what I'm doing. Hopefully, I pick the most useful for the
task in hand <g>
Adam
Yikes Sykes
> then you wouldn't actually know anything -
Empty
>but that doesn't stop you from
> making a fool of yourself.
That's the whole point Rex...making a fool of >yourself<. Thank you for
noticing.
Your motives are ultra-transparent, and your shit flinging is furthering
your demise you sad man.
Yikes Sykes
"Robert" <rob...@svensknlp.nu> wrote in message
news:627ff765.03022...@posting.google.com...
> "Yikes Sykes" <he...@hall.com> wrote in message
news:<v5dnq0b...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > "Robert" <rob...@svensknlp.nu> wrote in message
> > news:627ff765.03022...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > > It might also be that Rex is mirroring whats done by others.
> >
> > A wise man once said, "Stupid is as STUPID does..."
>
> Come on give me a breake here.
All I am saying is that if Rex wants to continue flinging shit, that is what
he is chosing to do. Makes him as stupid as those doing it back to him.
Thomas
> Hi Thomas,
>
>
> "Thomas" <gje...@usa.net> wrote in message
> > >
> > > What is it that you are doing?
> >
> > I can get rid of a state by imagining it as a color in my body and
> > letting it out in the room.
>
> Ok Here is the problem. You are not replacing it with anything so you are
> leaving an open spot for anything to show up in. Most times the old state
> will slide back in.
"Slide back in" you say. Is it the same you do in 3-D mind? Imagining
states as colors, shapes, etc. being something IN YOUR BODY? Then
moving states around in the 3-D world?
> So here is what you do. Imagine the state leaving your
> body , in whatever way you do that. Them imagine a state you would rather
> feel coming into the spot where the old state was.
Yes, but imagining a state...is that enough, or will I have to FEEL a
state, then imagine it as being a color, shape, etc. then put it in
the spot?
> > >
> > > Even better we could just move the problem state out of the way and then
> put
> > > what we wanted in that spot and the problem had no place to go. So what
> if
> > > the laws of physics also applied onn the level of the mind?
> >
> > But "where" the state is is still something you imagine right? The
> > lenses you see through are still imagined in some way, aren't they?
>
> Yes it is nothing more than a constructive hallucination. That hallucination
> gives you unconscious the directions that you want it to follow. It is a
> real as anything else so just use it :)
So now I have states (imagined as colors/shapes etc.) and I have
locations (primary in the body, no?). Are these the two parametres
you're working with in 3-D mind?
> >
> > > So I go to see Dilts about 5 years ago. He is doing some real good stuff
> by
> > > involving movement of the body while going through processes. We used
> much
> > > of that premise in the Goal Getting tapes where instead of just
> imagining
> > > your timeline, you actually walk through time.
> >
> > That's 'common NLP' in Denmark.
>
>
> Tha's great. It was not and still is not common in the US. 5 Years ago I was
> ignoring that aspect.
We have many schools in Denmark. The school that's "accepted/approved"
by an international organisation doesn't even work with timelines!!!
The other schools are more flexible and ready to develop NLP. One has
to wonder about the value of "approvement" - do you know what I mean?
Sometimes I have a hard time finding the right words in english... :-)
> >
> > >
> > > Actually I consider internal dialog as auditory. Symbols would be in
> visual
> > > I do have a suggestion for one that we have been including.
> >
> > But what about dissociation and association, I don't think this should
> > be called a submodality...in case it is, it involves all modalities,
> > not just the visual.
>
> It isn't. It is a perceptual position.
Thanks for clearing that up!
> Have fun
>
> Tom
Thomas
Tom Vizzini
"Thomas" <gje...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:afc7f435.03022...@posting.google.com...
> >
> > Ok Here is the problem. You are not replacing it with anything so you
are
> > leaving an open spot for anything to show up in. Most times the old
state
> > will slide back in.
>
> "Slide back in" you say. Is it the same you do in 3-D mind? Imagining
> states as colors, shapes, etc. being something IN YOUR BODY? Then
> moving states around in the 3-D world?
Yes that is part of the premise. What if you mind sorted things that same
way it does in the physical world? Just removing one thing leaves a vacancy.
You MUST fill that vacancy. If not you mind will fill in the vacancy. My
thoughts are that this is why some poeple who stop smoking begin eating. The
state had not been altered so a different behavior gets substituted to
satisfy that state.
>
> > So here is what you do. Imagine the state leaving your
> > body , in whatever way you do that. Them imagine a state you would
rather
> > feel coming into the spot where the old state was.
>
> Yes, but imagining a state...is that enough, or will I have to FEEL a
> state, then imagine it as being a color, shape, etc. then put it in
> the spot?
Yes you do have to have a connection to that state. You do not have to amp
it up but you do have to feel it to some extent.
> >
> > Yes it is nothing more than a constructive hallucination. That
hallucination
> > gives you unconscious the directions that you want it to follow. It is a
> > real as anything else so just use it :)
>
> So now I have states (imagined as colors/shapes etc.) and I have
> locations (primary in the body, no?). Are these the two parametres
> you're working with in 3-D mind?
It can be in the body. It can be a projected reality in front of the body
but still connected. What is really important is noticing that whatever goes
on in our minds gets projected into the real world. These can be influenced
by using a constructive hallucination whith a physical reality. The physical
rules of construction also apply to making changes inside our minds.
>
> >
> > Tha's great. It was not and still is not common in the US. 5 Years ago I
was
> > ignoring that aspect.
>
> We have many schools in Denmark. The school that's "accepted/approved"
> by an international organisation doesn't even work with timelines!!!
> The other schools are more flexible and ready to develop NLP. One has
> to wonder about the value of "approvement" - do you know what I mean?
> Sometimes I have a hard time finding the right words in english... :-)
I find there is little or no value in certification when it comes to
defining the quality of education in NLP. There is no one orginization that
tests the proficiancy of anyones teaching ir skill.
> > > But what about dissociation and association, I don't think this should
> > > be called a submodality...in case it is, it involves all modalities,
> > > not just the visual.
> >
> > It isn't. It is a perceptual position.
>
> Thanks for clearing that up!
No problem. Keep in mind one more little thing. When working with yourself
and other keep in mind that a playful attitude and an open mind
are...essential :)
Have fun
Tom
ErosLA77
>Message-id: <3E56F1A9...@amazingrex.com>
>
>then you wouldn't actually know anything - but that doesn't stop you from
>making a fool of yourself.
Wex, I know that YOU are a big coward..I offered to send you the first video
of the Palo Alto video set.....but you refuse to post an address. What are you
afraid of?
Secondly, you refuse to answer about the glaring and huge incongruency of your
awfully distracting speech defect. Don't you feel it detracts from the quality
of what you present, especially as a public peformer? Why have you failed to
recognize this defect and take action to correct it..something a few weeks or
months with a speech coach could easily handle? Do you not believe in yourself
enough or care enough about the quality of what you do?
Come on, Rex. You bombard us with questions, but you yourself won't be honest
enough to address your public about this.
Thomas
> Hi Thomas,
>
> "Thomas" <gje...@usa.net> wrote in message
> news:afc7f435.03022...@posting.google.com...
>
>
> > >
> > > Ok Here is the problem. You are not replacing it with anything so you
> are
> > > leaving an open spot for anything to show up in. Most times the old
> state
> > > will slide back in.
> >
> > "Slide back in" you say. Is it the same you do in 3-D mind? Imagining
> > states as colors, shapes, etc. being something IN YOUR BODY? Then
> > moving states around in the 3-D world?
>
> Yes that is part of the premise. What if you mind sorted things that same
> way it does in the physical world? Just removing one thing leaves a vacancy.
> You MUST fill that vacancy. If not you mind will fill in the vacancy. My
> thoughts are that this is why some poeple who stop smoking begin eating. The
> state had not been altered so a different behavior gets substituted to
> satisfy that state.
But what if the new state doesn't have the same size/shape? How can it
fill the vacancy?
> >
> > > So here is what you do. Imagine the state leaving your
> > > body , in whatever way you do that. Them imagine a state you would
> rather
> > > feel coming into the spot where the old state was.
> >
> > Yes, but imagining a state...is that enough, or will I have to FEEL a
> > state, then imagine it as being a color, shape, etc. then put it in
> > the spot?
>
> Yes you do have to have a connection to that state. You do not have to amp
> it up but you do have to feel it to some extent.
>
>
> > >
> > > Yes it is nothing more than a constructive hallucination. That
> hallucination
> > > gives you unconscious the directions that you want it to follow. It is a
> > > real as anything else so just use it :)
> >
> > So now I have states (imagined as colors/shapes etc.) and I have
> > locations (primary in the body, no?). Are these the two parametres
> > you're working with in 3-D mind?
>
>
> It can be in the body. It can be a projected reality in front of the body
> but still connected. What is really important is noticing that whatever goes
> on in our minds gets projected into the real world. These can be influenced
> by using a constructive hallucination whith a physical reality. The physical
> rules of construction also apply to making changes inside our minds.
Are you using your intuition to find the shape/color/size of the
states?
> >
>
> > >
> > > Tha's great. It was not and still is not common in the US. 5 Years ago I
> was
> > > ignoring that aspect.
> >
> > We have many schools in Denmark. The school that's "accepted/approved"
> > by an international organisation doesn't even work with timelines!!!
> > The other schools are more flexible and ready to develop NLP. One has
> > to wonder about the value of "approvement" - do you know what I mean?
> > Sometimes I have a hard time finding the right words in english... :-)
>
> I find there is little or no value in certification when it comes to
> defining the quality of education in NLP. There is no one orginization that
> tests the proficiancy of anyones teaching ir skill.
>
>
> > > > But what about dissociation and association, I don't think this should
> > > > be called a submodality...in case it is, it involves all modalities,
> > > > not just the visual.
> > >
> > > It isn't. It is a perceptual position.
> >
> > Thanks for clearing that up!
>
>
> No problem. Keep in mind one more little thing. When working with yourself
> and other keep in mind that a playful attitude and an open mind
> are...essential :)
Thanks!
> Have fun
>
> Tom
>
Thomas
Tom Vizzini
same
> > way it does in the physical world? Just removing one thing leaves a
vacancy.
> > You MUST fill that vacancy. If not you mind will fill in the vacancy. My
> > thoughts are that this is why some poeple who stop smoking begin eating.
The
> > state had not been altered so a different behavior gets substituted to
> > satisfy that state.
>
>
> But what if the new state doesn't have the same size/shape? How can it
> fill the vacancy?
What makes you think that behaviors actually have a side and shape? In my
experience that is only relevant if you supply a size and shape for it. So
get submodalities out of the way.
> Are you using your intuition to find the shape/color/size of the
> states?
So just think of the model for now. It is simple. Of you remove one thing
you have to replace it with another. If you want to tell them to make it the
same size and shape then that is fine. If it gets to closely identified with
the previous state with size, shape and color, It might turn into the
previous state. So I would avoid it.
Here is my experience when dealing with colors shape size and textures. When
the state changes the perception of the colors changes. If you change it
back then you might change the state back. So I really wouldn't bother.
Let me suggest this. Use the least amount of steps to get the job done.
Let me know if this helps,
Tom
Rex Steven Sikes
Rex Steven Sikes
travels out the side due to the alignment of teeth and spaces.
I do correct it when I wish to put the energy into it. LA agents said keep it -
adds to character. I feel it makes me just an average guy. So usually I don't
bother unless filming, taping, some radio or TV work - or unless someone asks.
Kind of like your looks - they make you more down to earth. Both of us could
correct or humanness we choose to I suppose - mine I can do without help though.
Apparently you haven't felt the need - I respect that.
As for March 24, 1983 - My awakening - when I appeared in the doorway to the
beyond...
A violent Kundalini awakening led to a narapathy - symptoms of severe chronic
pain for 20 years. Been misdiagnosed and untreated for 20 years. All classic
symptoms - I reconized but western doctors don't. Utill very recently.
I can control state - have since I train for over 12 hours a day and stay up from
5 - 2 or 3 with students. Still I have trained an performed with appendicitis,
severe nerve pain, pinched nerves, and many more physical issues without ever
letting anyone in the audience know I was suffering. Still do. Since you managed
to sit or stand still for perhaps 6 hours and then collapse from exhaustion I
guess we should ask you what is wrong.
Still it is much easier for me to perform or consult for an hour or two than 15 -
20 hours a day.
Being awakened but still in the body has its issues - but none I haven't managed
to appreciate or work with for all this time.
ErosLA77 wrote:
--
Robert
> beyond...
> A violent Kundalini awakening led to a narapathy - symptoms of severe chronic
> pain for 20 years. Been misdiagnosed and untreated for 20 years. All classic
> symptoms - I reconized but western doctors don't. Utill very recently.
Could you share a bit more on this awakening thingy?
/Robert
ErosLA77
I don't think he does since we ceased all business with you some time ago. What
are you afraid of? I don't plan to come to visit.
Come on, puss boy.
ErosLA77
>Message-id: <3E5BC5C3...@amazingrex.com>
>
>It is called a lateral S - due to extraction of teeth. It is not a lisp
>- air
>travels out the side due to the alignment of teeth and spaces.
>
>I do correct it when I wish to put the energy into it.
Well, it is on ALL of your home study course products and on your "Attitude
Activator". So you didn't care enough about the quality to correct it when it
is an OBVIOUS distraction. I have NEVER heard you speak or present without it.
>LA agents said keep
>it -
>adds to character.
Ah ha ha ha. And obviously, their advice worked staggeringly well for your
career. C'mon....I was born at night, but I wasn't born LAST night.
> I feel it makes me just an average guy. So usually I
>don't
>bother unless filming, taping, some radio or TV work - or unless someone
>asks.
It's on all of your recorded products, buddy.
>Kind of like your looks - they make you more down to earth. Both of us could
>correct or humanness we choose to I suppose - mine I can do without help
>though.
Please. A poor comparison at best. My looks add to my spoken message; they
don't detract.
>
>As for March 24, 1983 - My awakening - when I appeared in the doorway to
>the
>beyond...
What the fuck? You accuse TOM of exaggerating and being nutty and suddenly you
are talking about appearing in "the doorway to the beyond".
>A violent Kundalini awakening led to a narapathy - symptoms of severe chronic
>pain for 20 years
You whacked it so hard you broke some nerve endings is what you are trying to
say.
.> Been misdiagnosed and untreated for 20 years. All classic
>symptoms - I reconized but western doctors don't. Utill very recently.
>
>I can control state - have since I train for over 12 hours a day and stay
>up from
>5 - 2 or 3 with students. Still I have trained an performed with appendicitis,
>severe nerve pain, pinched nerves, and many more physical issues without
>ever
>letting anyone in the audience know I was suffering. >Still do
Geez, try acupuncture, or hypnotic pain control. There is no merit in
needless suffering.
. Since you
>managed
>to sit or stand still for perhaps 6 hours and then collapse from exhaustion
>I
>guess we should ask you what is wrong.
I'm not the one who sounds like Donald Duck.
>
>Still it is much easier for me to perform or consult for an hour or two
>than 15 -
>20 hours a day.
>
>Being awakened but still in the body has its issues - but none I haven't
>managed
>to appreciate or work with for all this time.
Wow...so on the one hand you want to "feel like just an average guy"...how
noble, yet we are all to know that in reality, you are some kind of "awakened"
Master.
Geez, you are nuttier than I ever imagined. Out Baffling Baffa.
John
Don't you think it's about time you two took this crap off-line.
Please use your e-mail and spare us the embarrassment of watching two
professionals demeaning themselves here.
John
Thomas
eros...@aol.com (ErosLA77) wrote in message news:<20030225202034...@mb-cu.aol.com>...
> >Subject: Re:Ross still looses out
> >From: Rex Steven Sikes r...@amazingrex.com
> >Date: Tue, Feb 25, 2003 11:36 AM
> >Message-id: <3E5BC5C3...@amazingrex.com>
> >
> >It is called a lateral S - due to extraction of teeth. It is not a lisp
> >- air
> >travels out the side due to the alignment of teeth and spaces.
> >
> >I do correct it when I wish to put the energy into it.
>
>
> Well, it is on ALL of your home study course products and on your "Attitude
> Activator". So you didn't care enough about the quality to correct it when it
> is an OBVIOUS distraction. I have NEVER heard you speak or present without it.
>
Ross while you are on the subject - I find your voice irritating. You
seem to have a big gob of saliva in your mouth as you speak and it is
very distracting IMO. Could you not swallow before speaking?
>
>
> >LA agents said keep
> >it -
> >adds to character.
>
>
> Ah ha ha ha. And obviously, their advice worked staggeringly well for your
> career. C'mon....I was born at night, but I wasn't born LAST night.
>
That's interesting.
> > I feel it makes me just an average guy. So usually I
> >don't
> >bother unless filming, taping, some radio or TV work - or unless someone
> >asks.
>
> It's on all of your recorded products, buddy.
>
> >Kind of like your looks - they make you more down to earth. Both of us could
> >correct or humanness we choose to I suppose - mine I can do without help
> >though.
>
>
> Please. A poor comparison at best. My looks add to my spoken message; they
> don't detract.
>
Did you plan that Ross? :-) Do you think that you should be given
credit for how you look?
>
> >
> >As for March 24, 1983 - My awakening - when I appeared in the doorway to
> >the
> >beyond...
>
>
> What the fuck? You accuse TOM of exaggerating and being nutty and suddenly you
> are talking about appearing in "the doorway to the beyond".
>
This is a little strange IMO. :-)
People interpret things in diferent ways - There is no doorway (only a
space). LOL.
>
>
> >A violent Kundalini awakening led to a narapathy - symptoms of severe chronic
> >pain for 20 years
>
> You whacked it so hard you broke some nerve endings is what you are trying to
> say.
>
There's an old saying frequently used around here - 'Don't judge
everybody by your own standards'
>
> .> Been misdiagnosed and untreated for 20 years. All classic
> >symptoms - I reconized but western doctors don't. Utill very recently.
> >
> >I can control state - have since I train for over 12 hours a day and stay
> >up from
> >5 - 2 or 3 with students. Still I have trained an performed with appendicitis,
> >severe nerve pain, pinched nerves, and many more physical issues without
> >ever
> >letting anyone in the audience know I was suffering. >Still do
>
> Geez, try acupuncture, or hypnotic pain control. There is no merit in
> needless suffering.
>
I agree. Hypnotic pain control is the way to go. I wouldn't 'try' it
though - I'd just do it.
> . Since you
> >managed
> >to sit or stand still for perhaps 6 hours and then collapse from exhaustion
> >I
> >guess we should ask you what is wrong.
>
> I'm not the one who sounds like Donald Duck.
More like slurpy snake IMO. :-) Actually there is a touch of Donald
Duck in there too IMO. :-)
> >
> >Still it is much easier for me to perform or consult for an hour or two
> >than 15 -
> >20 hours a day.
> >
> >Being awakened but still in the body has its issues - but none I haven't
> >managed
> >to appreciate or work with for all this time.
>
> Wow...so on the one hand you want to "feel like just an average guy"...how
> noble, yet we are all to know that in reality, you are some kind of "awakened"
> Master.
>
An awakened master feels like just an average guy. That's what makes
him awakened IMO.
I wouldn't reckon Rex is 'awakened' though - That's just my
assessment. Maybe he is.
> Geez, you are nuttier than I ever imagined. Out Baffling Baffa.
>
Define 'nuttier' Ross.
Are you in any way nutty?
Best Wishes
ThomasR
Stephen Embden
> Perhaps Rex's motives are honest, but he is still doing the one doing
> the accusing, and therefore he should properly research the material and
> seminars of both Tom and Ross before saying publically that their
> marketing is a lie.
>
> This would also include buying videos. IMHO it's up to him to prove his
> accusations are correct and not the other two.
I am always interested in quaint customs. The interesting ritual, of
spouting spurious nonsense, in the firm expectation that someone will
step up and educate, is a particularly pervasive one. This does not
mean, however, that the usual stock response will always greet such
lazy behaviour.
I don't see this as being about the merits of the product. It is
possible to market one's wares, without issuing inaccurate and
disparaging comments about a whole field. I believe this is the
point. Anyway, it is up to anyone who wishes to form an opinion, to
either take the statements made here, at face value, or go research
the facts themselves. Just my thoughts.
Rex Steven Sikes
ErosLA77 wrote:
--
Rex Steven Sikes
ErosLA77 wrote:
Rex Steven Sikes
Still do. I don't suffer needlessly.
What's the big deal - I have done it and used to it.
Part of what I emphasized in training. It is second nature.
Everyone sleeps - everyone awakens - no big deal. You will too.
You asked I answered. Now you don't like the answer. Goes
to show you are difficult to please. Sorry you don't like answer.
I have never wanted to be self help guru of any kind. Not interested.
I have meditated since age 11, life is a meditation since '83. I have
performed since age 3, psychic performer since age 8 and continued
alkl these years. Began training NLP in mediation and therapy groups
by 1980 - continued all these activities and more throughout my
life. Many roads run parallel. Now I continue, my work, my performing
and my training for corporations and sponsors. Far more far reaching
than otherwise.
As for waking up - you will sometime - just stop trying.
Vapor rub
news:94b8c9c0.03022...@posting.google.com:
> Ross while you are on the subject - I find your voice irritating. You
> seem to have a big gob of saliva in your mouth as you speak and it is
> very distracting IMO. Could you not swallow before speaking?
>
Really? His content is so good that it hardly bothers me. However, when
someone has piss poor content or lifts word for word scripts from Bandler
like Rex does on his Bandler-lite Attitude Activator all the other
imperfections are magnified.
>
>>
>>
>> >LA agents said keep
>> >it -
>> >adds to character.
>>
>>
>> Ah ha ha ha. And obviously, their advice worked staggeringly well
>> for your
>> career. C'mon....I was born at night, but I wasn't born LAST night.
>>
>
> That's interesting.
>
>
>> > I feel it makes me just an average guy. So usually I
>> >don't
>> >bother unless filming, taping, some radio or TV work - or unless
>> >someone asks.
>>
>> It's on all of your recorded products, buddy.
>>
>> >Kind of like your looks - they make you more down to earth. Both of
>> >us could correct or humanness we choose to I suppose - mine I can
>> >do without help though.
>>
>>
>> Please. A poor comparison at best. My looks add to my spoken
>> message; they
>> don't detract.
>>
>
> Did you plan that Ross? :-) Do you think that you should be given
> credit for how you look?
>
For what he sells, he would have had less credibility if looked like Brad
Pitt. His looks drove him to create his path in life.
>>
>> >
>> >As for March 24, 1983 - My awakening - when I appeared in the
>> >doorway to the
>> >beyond...
>>
>>
>> What the fuck? You accuse TOM of exaggerating and being nutty and
>> suddenly you
>> are talking about appearing in "the doorway to the beyond".
>>
>
> This is a little strange IMO. :-)
> People interpret things in diferent ways - There is no doorway (only a
> space). LOL.
>
>>
>>
>> >A violent Kundalini awakening led to a narapathy - symptoms of
>> >severe chronic pain for 20 years
>>
>> You whacked it so hard you broke some nerve endings is what you are
>> trying to say.
>>
>
> There's an old saying frequently used around here - 'Don't judge
> everybody by your own standards'
That and Ross has some scary cool intuition.
VR
Tom Vizzini
"Stephen Embden" <spammersgo...@blueyonder.co.uk>
>
> I don't see this as being about the merits of the product. It is
> possible to market one's wares, without issuing inaccurate and
> disparaging comments about a whole field.
I think this is an interesting remark. The presupposition is that any new
choice or comparison is 'disparaging'.
I have to disagree.
The 3D Mind is a new choice and tool. In my opinion it is MUCH easier to use
on yourself that NLP. It is easier to use than NLP. It takes less time to
learn than NLP.
How do I know this. We some would say that I am too ignorant to know. The
truth is that I began learning NLP back in 1990. So I know a bit about NLP.
I have been a trainer since 1998. So I have taught NLP applications for some
time. I know the strengths of the NLP model as well as the weaknesses.
Many would like to assume there are no weaknesses in the model of NLP. I
think that is a bit arrogant and egotistical....which is one of the states
that also IS one of the weaknesses of the model of NLP.
Some would say that I am an arrogant asshole. Yep that is most likely true.
But I still love and accept myself so it must be ok....right :)
Most of the responses to these threads lately have denied ANY weakness in
the model of NLP. That is dangerous and stupid. Denial of the weakness in
any model perpetuates those weaknesses. That stagnates the model.
What I have done differently that many who learn NLP is that I went out into
the real world to test the model rather than in the sterile environment of a
seminar or the protected environment of therapy. So I have personal
experience of what works and what does not translate into real world skills.
Are these disparaging remarks? Am I attacking anyone? Am I insulting NLP?
Well NLP is not a real thing so it can't get insulted. Only those overly
invested in the model can get insulted. I can say that because I was one of
those who would defend NLP and anything I perceived as an attack on NLP. So
I understand the reaction that many people have.
As I have said before, NLP is a great technology. I personally think it is
time to evolve the model. Unfortunately because of the over reliance in
unconscious installation of 'skills', there are not many innovators in the
field. So the model of NLP has not changed significantly in the last 20
years.
People who are doing good stuff are the ones who are not married to NLP as
the one way to do things. Steve Andreas is doing some good stuff with his
'Remodeling Self Concept' Model. His new book 'Transforming Yourself' is a,
outline of that model. Al and Marilyn Sargent are doing some great stuff
with the new 'Hemispheric Therapy' stuff.
Dilts is doing good stuff and Bandler does not even teach NLP anymore. So if
some people are pissed at me for the direction I am going, I am in good
company.
In my opinion the only people disparaging NLP are those who are stuck in a
30 year old model of it and refuse to innovate.
Rex Steven Sikes
including tantra. I did enter a complete period of silence for about 60 days - no
outside stimuli - everything quited down. None of the approaches do the work - it
is when everything stops. The methods are only there to pursue until one can
realize the futility. BUT not doing anything either has ego in it. The dual nature
- you must want it but can't want it. The outcome being larger than all
contraditions and counter examples. Tantra was very wonderful and brought many
satoris.but not samadhi - that came through laughter.
At best it is difficult to describe - words of course are inadequate. I liken it
to the story of everyone awakening in a garden facing various directions - each of
their descriptions will vary according to the manner in which they awoke. None are
correct, none are incorrect - they differ according to each. Still some will miss
and try to do what the person did who awoke. That is why we have so many paths.
Each trying.
I did much in the way of kundalini yoga and third eye meditations - one of the
last traps is to get caught up in the power tricks of the third eye. When it
sushed it was immensely blissful and painful. I lost the nails on my left foot -
turned black and fell off, pain in foot and left side and other kundalini related
symptoms. Over the years the kundalini has taken its toll.
Even though it flows properly now damage is not undone. Hence the narapthy and
other kundalini issues. Fortunately, I have found those who recognize the
symptoms. Otherwise I have controlled pain for many years to function in every day
life and training. Some of those close to me have sat with me in meditation.
Mostly I have kept it out of the training room
but have addressed it many times.
The key is that most approaches like NLP work at the level of the surface waves of
the ocean. The real work exists much deeper at the ocean floor where it is silent
and unmoving. The mind benefits from NLP and related disciplines but it doesn't
touch the being. Vast difference between the two. The work for us humans is to
find the center, the silence and discover that we / you are already that which you
seek. Then seeking can cease.
As for the doorway - enlightment to some is considered an endpoint - it is not -
it is the beginning of an incredible journey.
You are...
I hope these thoughts help as a reply. Obviously the thing named is not the thing.
Enjoy!
Rex
Gentle Spirit wrote:
> >
> > As for March 24, 1983 - My awakening - when I appeared in the doorway to the
> > beyond...
> > A violent Kundalini awakening led to a narapathy - symptoms of severe chronic
> > pain for 20 years. Been misdiagnosed and untreated for 20 years. All classic
> > symptoms - I reconized but western doctors don't. Utill very recently.
> >
>
> could you share a little more about this experinience.
> Was this awakening due meditation and yoga, or did you adopt the
> tantric path (not as it is percieved in the west as a manual of sexual
> how to but using the energy to channel higher consioussness)
>
> Also would be useful and interesting to know were you involved in Raja
> Yoga?
>
> I have seen and met quite a few poeple whose speech patterns and in
> general the rhythm of their speech changed upon the upward movement of
> Kundaline..
>
> do share...
>
> Gentle Spirit
Rex Steven Sikes
This is not new information for anyone. Many including myself have maintained
that for a long long time.
What I have been asking you to address are your specific references. Not vague
weaknesses, not anything else but your own choice of words. You continue\
to divert and attempt to direct attention away from your very own statements.
Just back up your word choice. Or admit your mistakes. You have not as far as
I can ascertain from your posting addressed any area of weakness that is
relevant.
BUT you have made other statements which you could clarify but apprently
choose tactics to refrain from doing so.
Okay we get it - you will never back up your words with explanations. YOu will
only divert, whine, assign blame and try to weasel out of having to owe up.
We understand... thanks for your interesting lack of defending your point of
view in favor of defending yourself.
Tom Vizzini
on 31 days. I have made the statements I have made.....prove I am wrong.
"Rex Steven Sikes" <r...@amazingrex.com> wrote in message
news:3E5D0D33...@amazingrex.com...
Rex Steven Sikes
Tom Vizzini wrote:
> "Stephen Embden" <spammersgo...@blueyonder.co.uk>
> >
> > I don't see this as being about the merits of the product. It is
> > possible to market one's wares, without issuing inaccurate and
> > disparaging comments about a whole field.
>
> I think this is an interesting remark. The presupposition is that any new
> choice or comparison is 'disparaging'.
No that is not the presupposition. Check again.
>
>
> I have to disagree.
>
> The 3D Mind is a new choice and tool. In my opinion it is MUCH easier to use
> on yourself that NLP. It is easier to use than NLP. It takes less time to
> learn than NLP.
It may be please tell us how it differs and how it is easier. What does NLP not
do that this does. Explain please in significant detail without testimonials.
>
>
> How do I know this. We some would say that I am too ignorant to know. The
> truth is that I began learning NLP back in 1990. So I know a bit about NLP.
> I have been a trainer since 1998. So I have taught NLP applications for some
> time. I know the strengths of the NLP model as well as the weaknesses.
A trainer of what are you? Perhaps you do know a 'little bit' as demonstrated
by
your statements.
Many people know the strengths and weakness - refer to my original postings
say 5 years ago.
>
>
> Many would like to assume there are no weaknesses in the model of NLP. I
> think that is a bit arrogant and egotistical....which is one of the states
> that also IS one of the weaknesses of the model of NLP.
Whom would these people be that would like to assume there are no weaknesses?
I think that is true - arrogant and egotistical whether nlp or tom is a
weakness.
>
>
> Some would say that I am an arrogant asshole. Yep that is most likely true.
> But I still love and accept myself so it must be ok....right :)
Not necessarily. Many rude obnoxious people who know nothing also love
themselves - so that is your proof for your claims? Hmmmmm
>
>
> Most of the responses to these threads lately have denied ANY weakness in
> the model of NLP. That is dangerous and stupid. Denial of the weakness in
> any model perpetuates those weaknesses. That stagnates the model.
From who? Yep denial of weakness in self also perpetuates and stagnates lack of
growth in the individual. Look inside.
>
>
> What I have done differently that many who learn NLP is that I went out into
> the real world to test the model rather than in the sterile environment of a
> seminar or the protected environment of therapy. So I have personal
> experience of what works and what does not translate into real world skills.
Differently from whom? who has not gone to the street and tested the model.
Please list - and who else does not have personal experience of what works
in the real worked, By the way my tag line was 'Practical skills for the real
world'
So who are these people these trainers who have not done what you have?
How are you so different?
> Are these disparaging remarks? Am I attacking anyone? Am I insulting NLP?
No you are presenting assumptions - you are making statements that you can't or
won't verify about others when you have no clue about others but won't readily
admit it.
>
>
> Well NLP is not a real thing so it can't get insulted. Only those overly
> invested in the model can get insulted. I can say that because I was one of
> those who would defend NLP and anything I perceived as an attack on NLP. So
> I understand the reaction that many people have.
This is nothing new - NLP is nothing - go back a number of years. Yes, people
can be insulted by callous rude obnoxious behavior. People can be offended when
they find someone making remarks the person is not qualified to make. They
can be annoyed when they discover someone is making misrepresentations about
them by omission as well as commission. Again the many people - the vagueness
the evasiveness all promoting yourself as something of a hero while actually
cutting
others down. Seems pretty slimy but I agree it is a good method for marketing.
>
>
> As I have said before, NLP is a great technology. I personally think it is
> time to evolve the model. Unfortunately because of the over reliance in
> unconscious installation of 'skills', there are not many innovators in the
> field. So the model of NLP has not changed significantly in the last 20
> years.
Well bully for you. evolve the model. Congratulations no one has every
considered
that before. Go back and read what I have said about unconscious installation
years ago. And since you don't have a finger on the pulse of NLP and all the
people everywhere you can not ascertain that nothing has changed in 20 years.
I will agree that mainstream NLP keeps publishing the same books year after
year with different titles. There is innovation and there is resistance to
innovation.
>
>
> People who are doing good stuff are the ones who are not married to NLP as
> the one way to do things. Steve Andreas is doing some good stuff with his
> 'Remodeling Self Concept' Model. His new book 'Transforming Yourself' is a,
> outline of that model. Al and Marilyn Sargent are doing some great stuff
> with the new 'Hemispheric Therapy' stuff.
>
> Dilts is doing good stuff and Bandler does not even teach NLP anymore. So if
> some people are pissed at me for the direction I am going, I am in good
> company.
Please don't claim to be in their company. Steve Andreas is doing good stuff as
well as those who you mention.
PAlease Bandler does in fact teach NLP - you have to know Bandler to understand
Bandler.
A name by any other name...Give us all a break with your claims to know...
>
>
> In my opinion the only people disparaging NLP are those who are stuck in a
> 30 year old model of it and refuse to innovate.
Like you would or could begin to know. Again you set your self up as the good
guy
while attacking nameless others.
One could say the problem in NLP is not innovation but baseless innovation.
Claiming
a distinction without a distinction. Misleading people. Reinventing the wheel.
Plagiarism,
parroting and continuing down the same smelly pathway.
Perhaps there is too much that people claim to innovate that is the real
problem. I am
all for actual innovation and truth in advertising. I am also for clean honest
representations
of the people, the field, and what is being done in and out of the field.
I am for people who when they make the kind of blatant self serving remarks
that you
do and when they say something is stagnant that they offer the evidence - that
they
back up their words. You demonstrate that you never will.
And instead you keep defending yourself.
Rex Steven Sikes
Prove your own statements - don't make others do your work for you.
It is quite rational to respond with Tom you have claimed that your work
is new and that nlp has some issues - back up what you have previously
said. demonstrate what you meant. Clear it up for us.
Don't revert to the chicken you so plainly demonstrate. Show us you
have a clue what you are talking about.
Tom Vizzini wrote:
--
Robert
> the model of NLP. That is dangerous and stupid. Denial of the weakness in
> any model perpetuates those weaknesses. That stagnates the model.
Thats what evolution and progress is made for.
Go further.
One thing is the name in it self.
NLP isnt what most teach anyhow nowadays.
The problem is what do we really call NLP?
Grinders take and i am inclined to agree is modeling that is never
outdated.
It is upgraded since we know more about change now than we did back in
the seventy.
(No, I was not there. ;)
We know more about change than early 80 and so on...
It is easier for example to learn NLP since I teach it in 2 days for a
practitioner level with additional 4 days for consious training and
further integrations.
The NLP Practitioners I train are good and stand up to anyones NLP
practitoner training in the world.
15 days or more is a waste of time if you do unconsious installations.
I can hardly do 6 days since I run into having to much time to do
other things.
> As I have said before, NLP is a great technology. I personally think it is
> time to evolve the model. Unfortunately because of the over reliance in
> unconscious installation of 'skills', there are not many innovators in the
> field. So the model of NLP has not changed significantly in the last 20
> years.
Most seems badly missunderstood regarding unconsious installations.
I do them a lot since it works wonders to teach basic skills way
faster than normal trainings offer with a more solid way of be able to
do.
I did do a lot of testing to make sure I understood what nested loops,
unconsious learning and other things did with basic brain stuff.
However, I guess be a trainer after 2 month of training in a row isnt
good NLP but good money.
If there is unconsious installation it is based on basic principals
which any trainer should be able to explain and do as they explain.
> Dilts is doing good stuff and Bandler does not even teach NLP anymore. So if
> some people are pissed at me for the direction I am going, I am in good
> company.
We all cheer.
> In my opinion the only people disparaging NLP are those who are stuck in a
> 30 year old model of it and refuse to innovate.
LOL.
Where do all those things get stuck?
NLP is about modeling not the applications which seems most want to
get.
/Robert
Rex Steven Sikes
Kind of like when people say 'I wish I had known better when starting out stuff".Or like regrets about smoking or partying all those years. If people start out on the right foot fewer issues are likely to arise.
Laughter is an integral part of my work for people to savor. But please realize to say that the NLP community is moving in that direction may offend some who think the NLP community is static and lifeless. But hopefully people are purposefully moving
in this direction I agree.
Ah... a wise one!
Ahhhhh the garden paradise....
enjoy gentle spirit!!!!
rex
Gentle Spirit wrote:
> HI Rex
>
> Thanks for taking the time to answer my query!
>
> > I have practiced many spiritual disciplines yoga, mediation, movement and dance - including tantra. I did enter a complete period of silence for about 60 days - no > outside stimuli - everything quited down. None of the approaches do the work - it
> > is when everything stops. The methods are only there to pursue until one can
> > realize the futility. BUT not doing anything either has ego in it. The dual nature
> > - you must want it but can't want it. The outcome being larger than all
> > contraditions and counter examples. Tantra was very wonderful and brought many
> > satoris.but not samadhi - that came through laughter.
>
> I agree, tantra can be amazing, however the right teacher who teaches
> one to LAUGH YOUR WAY TO ECSTACY is what samadhi is all about...and it
> is good to see people within the NLP community begining to move
> PURPOSEFULLY in THIS DIRECTION
>
> >> Even though it flows properly now damage is not undone. Hence the
> narapthy and
> > other kundalini issues. Fortunately, I have found those who recognize the
> > symptoms. Otherwise I have controlled pain for many years to function in every day
> > life and training. Some of those close to me have sat with me in meditation.
> > Mostly I have kept it out of the training room
> > but have addressed it many times.
> >
>
> I agree, and this is something poeple should watch out for when
> working with any kind of energy system. I have seen some products that
> offer energy channeling and energy work without taking into
> consideration the entire human ecosystem (meaning mind, body soul and
> connections we have to the morphogentic feilds) hence possibly leading
> to damage and in mnay cases practioneers not even being aware that it
> is the energy work not done properly that is contributing to this
> ailment/s
>
> > The key is that most approaches like NLP work at the level of the surface waves of
> > the ocean. The real work exists much deeper at the ocean floor where it is silent
> > and unmoving. The mind benefits from NLP and related disciplines but it doesn't
> > touch the being. Vast difference between the two. The work for us humans is to
> > find the center, the silence and discover that we / you are already that which you
> > seek. Then seeking can cease.
>
> I totally agree. The magic does happen when there is no movement -
> which essentially is a ceasation of time and thought (as opposed to
> active thinking)
>
> >
> > As for the doorway - enlightment to some is considered an endpoint - it is not -
> > it is the beginning of an incredible journey.
>
> I could not agree more with you on this Rex, the journey only gets
> better and truly leads to bringing "heaven on earth" as the rishi's
> have stated for a long time.
> >
> > You are...
> >
> > I hope these thoughts help as a reply. Obviously the thing named is not the thing.
>
> It has been a pleasure reading your reply
>
> enjoy
>
> Gentle Spirit
zn...@aracnet.com
> Laughter is an integral part of my work for people to savor. But
> please realize to say that the NLP community is moving in that
> direction may offend some who think the NLP community is static and
> lifeless. But hopefully people are purposefully moving in this
> direction I agree.
This is the first I've heard of laughing your way to ecstasy. Can you
post some URLs, Rex?
--
M. Edward (Ed) Borasky, MS, MNLP, NST, FBG, PGS & PTA
zn...@borasky-research.net
http://www.borasky-research.net
How do you get an elephant out of a theatre?
You can't; it's in their blood!
Yiiikes
Responding to the same post twice...crying, name calling, etc?
And you are sure you haven't got a hidden agenda?
Yeah right...get on with it, magickal wizard...find something useful to
do...
You are falling into a whirlwind of mediocrity, the depths of depravity.
Get yourself together man. You're either being productive, or destructive.
For someone who is a proponent of self-change, albeit not being able to
demonstrate on self, it behoves me to see what shite you are putting forth
lately. Maybe try being productive again?
Don't attack the messenger...get the point the first time.
"Rex Steven Sikes" <r...@amazingrex.com> wrote in message
news:3E5D10EE...@amazingrex.com...
Yiiikes
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blab, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blab, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blab, Blah.No one is really interested in your life story, you post this as "if" your trying to impress someone. But one fact remains true..all the people that I've met who have "Awakened" are air heads, your writing proposes the same personality, clueless. Ross asked you an question about your speech impediment and you come up with this fabication....geeez, maybe you should become a fantasy fiction writer because your quite good at it.
Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blab, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blab, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blab, Blah.
No one cares.Unka Hooka Puffa
Rex Steven Sikes
> ...geeez, maybe you should become a fantasy fiction writer
> because your quite good at it.
>
> Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blab, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah,
> Blah, Blah, Blab, Blah,Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blab,
> Blah.
> No one cares.
>
> Unka Hooka Puffa
>
--
Rex Steven Sikes
http://www.idea-seminars.com
In my training I often referenced laughter and meditation.
Osho made reference to this many times in his words.
I will look for sources for you - please feel free to remind me.
Best wishes!
zn...@aracnet.com wrote:
--
Rex Steven Sikes
Yiiikes wrote:--
J Rapson
> HI Rex
>
> Thanks for taking the time to answer my query!
>
> > is when everything stops. The methods are only there to pursue until one can
> > realize the futility. BUT not doing anything either has ego in it. The dual nature
> > - you must want it but can't want it. The outcome being larger than all
> > contraditions and counter examples. Tantra was very wonderful and brought many
> > satoris.but not samadhi - that came through laughter.
>
> one to LAUGH YOUR WAY TO ECSTACY is what samadhi is all about...and it
> is good to see people within the NLP community begining to move
> PURPOSEFULLY in THIS DIRECTION
>
"for the record"
I've been a NLP Practitioner for 15+ years and a devotee of
Yogananda(Self Realization Fellowship)for about the same. Having a
sense of humor is great yet I respectfully suggest that anyone who
claims you can attain sabikalpa/nirbikalpa samadhi via "laughing" is
either being very facetious or totally misleading people. There is a
reason why Kriya yoga is taught by spiritual masters and its got
nothing to do with improving one's repetoire of humor. all NLPing
aside. I also recommend this part of the thread be continued at
alt.yoga or another relevant forum.
Jim R.
Houston Tx
> >> Even though it flows properly now damage is not undone. Hence the
> narapthy and
> > other kundalini issues. Fortunately, I have found those who recognize the
> > symptoms. Otherwise I have controlled pain for many years to function in every day
> > life and training. Some of those close to me have sat with me in meditation.
> > Mostly I have kept it out of the training room
> > but have addressed it many times.
> >
>
>
> I agree, and this is something poeple should watch out for when
> working with any kind of energy system. I have seen some products that
> offer energy channeling and energy work without taking into
> consideration the entire human ecosystem (meaning mind, body soul and
> connections we have to the morphogentic feilds) hence possibly leading
> to damage and in mnay cases practioneers not even being aware that it
> is the energy work not done properly that is contributing to this
> ailment/s
>
> > The key is that most approaches like NLP work at the level of the surface waves of
> > the ocean. The real work exists much deeper at the ocean floor where it is silent
> > and unmoving. The mind benefits from NLP and related disciplines but it doesn't
> > touch the being. Vast difference between the two. The work for us humans is to
> > find the center, the silence and discover that we / you are already that which you
> > seek. Then seeking can cease.
>
> I totally agree. The magic does happen when there is no movement -
> which essentially is a ceasation of time and thought (as opposed to
> active thinking)
>
> >
> > As for the doorway - enlightment to some is considered an endpoint - it is not -
> > it is the beginning of an incredible journey.
>
> I could not agree more with you on this Rex, the journey only gets
> better and truly leads to bringing "heaven on earth" as the rishi's
> have stated for a long time.
> >
> > You are...
> >
> > I hope these thoughts help as a reply. Obviously the thing named is not the thing.
>
> It has been a pleasure reading your reply
>
> enjoy
>
> Gentle Spirit
> >
Rex Steven Sikes
Yogananda was indeed wonderful - but alas he is gone.
I too had practiced Kriya nothing wrong with it.
It is what happens during the laugh - during the meditativeness
the breath - not humor - not laughing at a joke.
Awakening can happen instantly.
By the way I would like to correct something.
It is not correct that I was awakened on March 24, 1983
I have always been awake - that was just the date I realized it.
As is everyone. Some just don't know it yet.
Some struggle towards the summit others enjoy the path.
Live Love Laugh
ErosLA77
> NLP?
>From: "Tom Vizzini" T...@essential-skills.com
>Date: Wed, Feb 26, 2003 11:00 AM
>Message-id: <b987a.13$Xu....@news1.news.adelphia.net>
>
>I will gladly address any rational response to my post. You haven't made
>one
>on 31 days. I have made the statements I have made.....prove I am wrong.
Shame on you Tom. Rex is an "awakened" human being. You can't dare argue with
him.
RJ
lawman
"Tom Vizzini" <T...@essential-skills.com> wrote in message
news:b987a.13$Xu....@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> I will gladly address any rational response to my post. You haven't made
one
> on 31 days. I have made the statements I have made.....prove I am wrong.
The real question is whether what you offer in this 3d mind video is worth
investing in to find out. It is a preliminary question and since one can't
see your video before buying it there is an inherent lack of information on
which to base a fully informed decision. So we must use heuristic methods
and make JUDGMENTS about whether it is likely that you really went out and
used extraordinary modeling skills to come up with this new thing, or
whether you have just cobbled together some stuff and you are now marketing
the hell out of it. Anyone with any sense and who knows you well enough
would have to decide the latter. Those of us who have been around for
several years from before you miraculously became this miracle trainer of
the real world, know that you are much more hype than substance, but are
very good at marketing. The idea that you have come up with anything truly
unique is almost ludicrous. But then not everyone has any sense, and
accidents do happen.
As for testimonials, the only proof you seem to have for the "effectiveness"
of your product, two points: 1) There are a lot of losers who get into NLP
hoping after hope that they will turn their lives around. While you might
expect that such people would be good testifiers, they are in fact so afraid
that you will get pissed and not give them the next product, that they will
convince themselves how great you are even when everyone else can see that
they have not changes a bit. 2) Other people will convince themselves that
it is a good product jsut because they convince themelves of that for every
product they get. The reasons for this are legon. Can be placebo, can be
not wanting to admit they got taken. Can be .....
As for your answering questions, you are starting to sound like Hall with
your jargony explamations.
Kurt
ErosLA77
Oh...Karl...spoken like a true vedic "flyer".
Why don't you read the testimonials on Tom's site with actual names and EMAIL
addresses? Email these people and ask them if indeed they got the results they
wrote about. THAT should be sufficient evidence for you to decide to buy a
video set and there is always a 100% money back guarantee if you are not
satisfied. Even Rex, jealous little aspiring menstruator that he is, hasn't
accused Tom or Kim of doing crooked business.
Now...fly along, Karl.