A Florida Republican Becomes a Right-Wing Target
Marvin The Paranoid Android
The party is becoming more irrelevant and useless by the week ...
thankfully.
---
A Florida Republican Becomes a Right-Wing Target
By KATE ZERNIKE
NEWBERRY, Fla. — In retrospect, even Charlie Crist admits that “the
optics” of The Hug are not great.
It was in the glow of a new day in politics last February when Mr.
Crist, this state’s popular Republican governor, took the stage with
President Obama and declared that Republicans and Democrats had to
rise above partisanship in support of an economic stimulus. And Mr.
Obama embraced him.
Now, as a season of tea parties and fractious town hall meetings has
energized the right wing, that embrace has endangered what once seemed
like Mr. Crist’s surefire bid for a Senate seat and put Florida at the
center of a debate about the future of the Republican Party.
Republican pragmatists argue that to take back its majority, the party
has to appeal to a broader range of voters, even if it means running
candidates who might stray from the party orthodoxy.
Conservatives counter that Republicans have become Democrats’ enablers
in bigger deficits and bigger government, and that the way to win is
to sharpen the distinctions between the parties.
A raft of conservative groups, commentators and politicians are
supporting a primary challenge to Mr. Crist by Marco Rubio, a
telegenic former speaker of the Florida House christened a Reaganite’s
answer to Mr. Obama by The National Review.
Mr. Crist, who has been endorsed by the National Republican Senatorial
Committee, is seen by these conservatives as too moderate — even
liberal — in his judicial appointments and his support of policies
like cap and trade for emissions that contribute to global warming and
restoring voting rights to ex-felons.
“Florida is a hill to die on for conservatives,” said Erick Erickson,
editor of the conservative blog RedState.com, which leads a daily
drumbeat against Mr. Crist. “This is the clearest example we have of
these two competing concepts.”
More -- A Florida Republican Becomes a Right-Wing Target
Bob
<marvinparanoidandr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Repugs can't even manage to be 'bipartisan' within their own ranks.
As if Democrats can? Marvin, with every post you show your lack of
understanding for what's going on down here. Do you know that
Democrats have such strong majorities in Congress right now that they
have the ability to pass anything they want, without a single
Republican vote? The Republicans don't have the ability to stop
anything right now. What are you complaining about?
Meanwhile, you completely ignore what's happening within the
Democratic ranks. Do you know 39 Democrats voted against the health
care reform bill that was passed by the House of Representatives? 39
Democrats joined the Republicans in voting no on a bill that would
decimate our health care system and increase the national debt by huge
proportions.
Yet we have *progressive* Democrats who are doing to moderate
Democrats the same thing you noted above about some Republicans:
From the Huffington Post:
[excerpt] On October 27, the progressive advocacy organization
MoveOn.org sent a petition to four moderate Democratic senators,
signed by past donors and volunteers for those senators, declaring
that the well would dry up if they prevented health care from going to
an up-or-down vote. The recipients were Evan Bayh of Indiana (who
received a petition signed by 244 former donors or volunteers) Mary
Landrieu of Louisiana (166 signatures), Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas
(35 signatures) and Ben Nelson of Nebraska (51 signatures).
"[MoveOn] Members in key states are stepping out and saying to their
senators, 'if we can't count on you to get an up or down vote on this
critical bill, you won't be able to count on us come election time,'"
explained Ilyse G. Hogue, director of political advocacy and
communications for MoveOn.org. "Progressives no longer want to work to
elect members who stand with special interests when it comes time to
fix our country's problems."
A similar effort is being launched on the House side. On Tuesday,
Markos Moulitsas, founder of the popular Daily Kos blog, urged readers
to simply stop writing checks to the Democratic Congressional Campaign
Committee as an explicit message to those "18 most endangered"
Democrats who voted against health care legislation.
"It's clear that if you don't want your money to go to bad Democrats,
then it's impossible to donate to the party committees," Moulitsas
told the Huffington Post. "Some of the most endangered Democrats in
2010 are also some of the worst. If you want to contribute to the good
ones, it's best to target your money directly to them."
A DCCC spokesman declined to respond. [end excerpt]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/11/progressives-threaten-to_n_353869.html
>
> The party is becoming more irrelevant and useless by the week ...
> thankfully.
Uh, don't hold your breath. You're completely ignoring what happened
in New Jersey and Virginia. And I'd still enjoy discussing on the
group that single district in New York State, if you'd like to.
Marvin The Paranoid Android
>
>
>
> > The party is becoming more irrelevant and useless by the week ...
> > thankfully.
>
> Uh, don't hold your breath. You're completely ignoring what happened
> in New Jersey and Virginia. And I'd still enjoy discussing on the
> group that single district in New York State, if you'd like to.
Dear Bob, Please forgive me ... ;-)
Not sure why you winged off on that tangent -- maybe reflexive
arrogance or annoyance or both?
If you'll be kind enough to read what I posted you'll likely note I
did not mention anything about the Democratic party. The article you
managed to post shows how the Democratic Party pressures it's
representatives from the bottom up (this thing called 'Government Of
The People, by the people, for the people). In the Rethug party, this
process is carried out from the top down not unlike other
authoritarian parties that have ended up in the dustbin of History.
The NY senate that was held for decades and considered safe was handed
to the Democratic Party courtesy of the 'Palinists and Lushbots'
pressuring the original Repub candidate out of the race.
When the candidates are picked by the disconnected Palinists and
Lushbots, it's a guaranteed recipe for political disaster.
Hope your day is as fabulous as mine!
Cheers!
Woodswun
<marvinparanoidandr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Repugs can't even manage to be 'bipartisan' within their own ranks.
>
> The party is becoming more irrelevant and useless by the week ...
> thankfully.
The extreme Right has never been willing to compromise with the more
moderate Republicans, which is why many of us have already left. The
last hangers on are now seeing what they've been cowing down to for
all these years, and it's not a pretty sight.
I'm not sure if you got the Watertown stations up your way, but they
had the right wing extremists up there trying to subvert the local
political process in order to oust a moderate Republican. They
basically have come out and said that they are willing to destroy the
Republican party in order to keep control.
Woods
Woodswun
>
>
>
> > The party is becoming more irrelevant and useless by the week ...
> > thankfully.
>
> Uh, don't hold your breath. You're completely ignoring what happened
> in New Jersey and Virginia. And I'd still enjoy discussing on the
> group that single district in New York State, if you'd like to.
There's a point in Marvin's post that you completely missed. Your
attempted "comparison" ... well, isn't a comparison at all!
Woods
Bob
Such a coincidence! That's exactly what I thought when I read your
post, complete with that "Repug" slang that I never use about
Democrats. Come to think of it, I wonder what the reaction from some
members of this group would be if I used an insulting slang term for
Democrats? You know, Marvin, you used to tell me you're a
conservative, but you use the terminology of the radical left in this
country. You're a high-tax-big-government proponent. You're no
conservative.
>
> If you'll be kind enough to read what I posted you'll likely note I
> did not mention anything about the Democratic party.
Yes, I did notice. That's why I informed you of the Democratic Party's
own internal squabbles, which make the Republicans' squabbles look
tame by comparison.
>
> The article you
> managed to post shows how the Democratic Party pressures it's
> representatives from the bottom up (this thing called 'Government Of
> The People, by the people, for the people). In the Rethug party, this
> process is carried out from the top down not unlike other
> authoritarian parties that have ended up in the dustbin of History.
You really don't know what you're talking about. Seriously, you don't.
That Republican candidate was installed by the Republican Party of New
York State, against the wishes of most Republicans in that district.
There was a groundswell of grassroots support for the Conservative
Party candidate, which went against the wishes of the top down
Republican-installed candidate. Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh were
only echoing the popularity of the Conservative Party candidate, who
was (by the way) a complete political amateur, and STILL managed to
make the race so close they're still counting votes.
What authority do you think Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh have to
remove a Republican candidate from an election? She quit that race
because she was showing up at 20% in the polls. And when she quit, she
endorsed the DEMOCRAT!
>
> The NY senate that was held for decades and considered safe was handed
It was not the Senate, it was one House district (of many) in New York
State.
>
> to the Democratic Party courtesy of the 'Palinists and Lushbots'
> pressuring the original Repub candidate out of the race.
Sigh, it's frustrating discussing this with someone who has no idea
what they're talking about.
>
> When the candidates are picked by the disconnected Palinists and
> Lushbots, it's a guaranteed recipe for political disaster.
That's not what happened, and as I told you in response to the email
you sent me, the Republicans can regroup and take back that seat next
year.
>
> Hope your day is as fabulous as mine!
Thanks. I can't speak for your day, but mine was excellent.
Bob
>
> On Nov 16, 7:02 am, Marvin The Paranoid Android
> <marvinparanoidandr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Repugs can't even manage to be 'bipartisan' within their own ranks.
>
> > The party is becoming more irrelevant and useless by the week ...
> > thankfully.
>
> The extreme Right has never been willing to compromise with the more
> moderate Republicans, which is why many of us have already left. The
> last hangers on are now seeing what they've been cowing down to for
> all these years, and it's not a pretty sight.
>
> I'm not sure if you got the Watertown stations up your way, but they
> had the right wing extremists up there trying to subvert the local
> political process in order to oust a moderate Republican.
She's not a moderate. She's liberal on most issues. She endorsed the
Democrat after she quit the race because her candidacy was showing up
at 20% in the polls.
>
> They
> basically have come out and said that they are willing to destroy the
> Republican party in order to keep control.
Uh, don't you even know what happened in your own state? The people
overruled the New York State Republican Party, which installed that
liberal candidate without allowing a primary. A primary would have
allowed the people to nominate a candidate of their choice. I
guarantee you there will be a primary in that district next year.
Bob
I know. The Democratic Party is in far more disarray than the
Republicans are.
Marvin The Paranoid Android
You're in California. How would you know?
Woodswun
Actually, the candidate was selected by the book - that's exactly how
candidates are selected when there's a vacancy. It was the
Conservatives who didn't want to follow the rules, and they
(surprise!) misrepresented the process when it didn't favor them. A
primary would have been an unheard-of mechanism for filling the seat
in these parts.
Woods
Woodswun
Obviously, he doesn't know anything at all. As I'm sure you are
aware, since you can get local stations for the district in question,
the standard process was followed for filling the seat. We don't do
the primary thing in such situations in these parts - never have, and
prolly never will. Lying about it lost the GOP a seat in a very
solidly Republican district. VERY Republican. Bob has no idea how
Republican they are! They lost 'em - LOL! What maroons!
Woods
Marvin The Paranoid Android
So I was right and Bob was wrong ,,, fancy that!!!
Bob
I paid attention. I heard some people from that district saying there
should have been a primary. Instead, it was a top-down installment of
a Republican candidate they didn't like. so they turned to a hastily
thrown-together third party candidacy by a businessman who is a
complete political amateur. And even with all that going against them,
the race was so close they're still counting votes.
From my local newspaper in California, which allows me to stay
informed without actually being in New York's 23rd district:
[excerpt] The rebellion that drove a moderate Republican off the
ballot in a special House election today is sending a clear message to
the party leadership and its candidates: Ignore the conservative grass
roots at your peril.
...
In the state's 23rd Congressional District, voters face a choice
between Democratic lawyer Bill Owens and businessman Doug Hoffman, who
is running on the Conservative Party ticket.
Hoffman's persistent charges that the Republican Party's hand-picked
candidate, state Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava, was too liberal -- an
assertion echoed by conservative activists nationwide -- resulted in
her dropping out of the race Saturday. [end excerpt]
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gop-battles3-2009nov03,0,4452064.story
Bob
Yes, in a top-down manner that is forced on the people against their
will.
>
> It was the
> Conservatives who didn't want to follow the rules, and they
> (surprise!) misrepresented the process when it didn't favor them.
There are rules in your state against a third party candidate running
for an open seat?
>
> A primary would have been an unheard-of mechanism for filling the
> seat in these parts.
Let's see how it works a year from now.
Bob
It's true that you did say something about the "Repugs" and "top
down," but you had it in the wrong context. So you were wrong. It was
grassroots that caused the "top down" Republican to withdraw from the
race, precisely the opposite of what you postulated.
Woodswun
Well, they may be from the district, but that doesn't mean they know
how things work. There are some pretty darned dumb people in that
district, lemme tell ya!
> Instead, it was a top-down installment of
> a Republican candidate they didn't like.
That who didn't like? Oh, yes, the national GOP didn't like her. Her
own district liked her fine, she was an elected member of the state
legislature.
>so they turned to a hastily
> thrown-together third party candidacy by a businessman who is a
> complete political amateur.
>And even with all that going against them,
> the race was so close they're still counting votes.
No, it wasn't "so close". It was decided a long time ago.
>
> From my local newspaper in California, which allows me to stay
> informed without actually being in New York's 23rd district:
And now you know - reporters don't bother checking their facts with a
primary source, God help ya if they're reading watered down stuff
thirdhand!
>
> [excerpt] The rebellion that drove a moderate Republican off the
> ballot in a special House election today is sending a clear message to
> the party leadership and its candidates: Ignore the conservative grass
> roots at your peril.
Only it wasn't "grass roots", it was the national Conservative
Republicans who wanted a Conservative or not the GOP.
> ...
> In the state's 23rd Congressional District, voters face a choice
> between Democratic lawyer Bill Owens and businessman Doug Hoffman, who
> is running on the Conservative Party ticket.
>
> Hoffman's persistent charges that the Republican Party's hand-picked
> candidate, state Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava, was too liberal -- an
> assertion echoed by conservative activists nationwide -- resulted in
> her dropping out of the race Saturday. [end excerpt]
No, actually, it was the complete and total lack of any support for a
Republican Candidate by the national GOP that led her to drop out.
That's also what caused a lot of diehard Republicans to vote for a
Democrat for the first time in their lives.
Woods
>
> http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-gop-battles3-200...
Woodswun
I don't think they were particularly upset about the process, or
they'd have done something to change the way the process works in the
past 100+ years we've been selected interim candidates this way. The
only people whining are the national Conservatives who have a hissy
fit whenever they don't get what they want. Boo.hoo.
>
>
> > It was the
> > Conservatives who didn't want to follow the rules, and they
> > (surprise!) misrepresented the process when it didn't favor them.
>
> There are rules in your state against a third party candidate running
> for an open seat?
You must be deliberately trying to warp things. The rules are that a
candidate is selected by a committee in these circumstances, not via a
primary.
>
>
>
> > A primary would have been an unheard-of mechanism for filling the
> > seat in these parts.
>
> Let's see how it works a year from now.
Well, as I've said before, they can always work to change the way
things are, but throwing a hissy fit and misrepresenting an election
that's been done by the book as something done in an unseemly manner
speaks volumes about the (complete lack of) integrity on the part of
the Conservative movement. And that's pretty much what the population
revolted against.
Woods
Woodswun
Um, no - Marvin was correct. That was no "grass roots" movement - it
was an organized campaign by the national members, not the locals.
You know Marv gets TV stations from that district on his cable, don't
you? No, I'll bet you didn't know that ...
Woods
Bob
Not too condescending, are you? But thanks for confirming that the
"Republican" candidate was a top-down installation by the New York
State Republican Party.
>
> > Instead, it was a top-down installment of
> > a Republican candidate they didn't like.
>
> That who didn't like?
Oh, the 80% of the electorate who weren't going to vote for her before
she quit the race.
>
> Oh, yes, the national GOP didn't like her.
Wrong again. The RNC gave her money, and ran ads AGAINST the
Conservative candidate. Seriously, Woods, do you never tire of being
wrong? I don't think I can think of another poster on this group who
is as consistently wrong as you are.
>
> Her
> own district liked her fine, she was an elected member of the state
> legislature.
State legislature districts are not precisely the same as United
States Congressional districts. Obviously the people of the
congressional district didn't like her, since she was at 20% in the
polls when she quit the race.
>
> >so they turned to a hastily
> > thrown-together third party candidacy by a businessman who is a
> > complete political amateur.
> >And even with all that going against them,
> > the race was so close they're still counting votes.
>
> No, it wasn't "so close". It was decided a long time ago.
I can't believe this! Do you ever pay attention before you spout off?
Of course you don't which is why you're wrong so often.
Headline: "Conservative 'unconcedes' in NY US House race"
By VALERIE BAUMAN (AP) –
ALBANY, N.Y. — Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman has withdrawn
his concession in a close special election for a U.S. House seat, and
New York officials have begun counting paper ballots.
Hoffman's opponent, Democrat Bill Owens, was sworn in after he was
declared the winner of the Nov. 3 election. Hoffman said on Glenn
Beck's national radio show Monday that he's "unconceding" the race.
The latest state Board of Elections results showed Owens ahead by
3,026 votes, not counting more than 7,400 absentee and military
ballots. Counts on those and other paper ballots was beginning
Tuesday. [end excerpt]
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0VibvgMRn4zDGTwEZjej-eRI1swD9C1IE480
>
> > From my local newspaper in California, which allows me to stay
> > informed without actually being in New York's 23rd district:
>
> And now you know - reporters don't bother checking their facts with a
> primary source, God help ya if they're reading watered down stuff
> thirdhand!
I think that's what you do. You'd make an excellent reporter, the way
you get things wrong.
>
> > [excerpt] The rebellion that drove a moderate Republican off the
> > ballot in a special House election today is sending a clear message to
> > the party leadership and its candidates: Ignore the conservative grass
> > roots at your peril.
>
> Only it wasn't "grass roots", it was the national Conservative
> Republicans who wanted a Conservative or not the GOP.
False. It was the voters of that district, who put that phony
"Republican" at 20% in the polls, which is why she quit the race.
>
> > ...
> > In the state's 23rd Congressional District, voters face a choice
> > between Democratic lawyer Bill Owens and businessman Doug Hoffman, who
> > is running on the Conservative Party ticket.
>
> > Hoffman's persistent charges that the Republican Party's hand-picked
> > candidate, state Assemblywoman Dede Scozzafava, was too liberal -- an
> > assertion echoed by conservative activists nationwide -- resulted in
> > her dropping out of the race Saturday. [end excerpt]
>
> No, actually, it was the complete and total lack of any support for a
> Republican Candidate by the national GOP that led her to drop out.
Absolutely false. Upside down and backwards. Talk about embarrassing,
Woods. The more you say, the more you're wrong.
>
> That's also what caused a lot of diehard Republicans to vote for a
> Democrat for the first time in their lives.
Not a lot, since the race still hasn't been decided. Oh that's right,
you didn't know that, did you?
Bob
No, it was the voters of that district, who put the "Republican" at
20% in the polls, which is why she left the race. I know I keep
repeating that, but it will probably take 10 more times before you
understand it.
>
> > > It was the
> > > Conservatives who didn't want to follow the rules, and they
> > > (surprise!) misrepresented the process when it didn't favor them.
>
> > There are rules in your state against a third party candidate running
> > for an open seat?
>
> You must be deliberately trying to warp things. The rules are that a
> candidate is selected by a committee in these circumstances, not via a
> primary.
Yes, a "top-down" procedure if there ever was one. And the grassroots
rebelled.
>
> > > A primary would have been an unheard-of mechanism for filling the
> > > seat in these parts.
>
> > Let's see how it works a year from now.
>
> Well, as I've said before, they can always work to change the way
> things are, but throwing a hissy fit and misrepresenting an election
> that's been done by the book as something done in an unseemly manner
> speaks volumes about the (complete lack of) integrity on the part of
> the Conservative movement. And that's pretty much what the population
> revolted against.
No, the population revolted against a top-down "Republican" who was
forced on them, and they turned to a novice Conservative instead. And
he's still in the race, despite your lack of knowledge.
Bob
Um, no - Marvin was incorrect, and you'd know that if you knew what
you're talking about.
>
> You know Marv gets TV stations from that district on his cable, don't
> you? No, I'll bet you didn't know that ...
Then he must not watch them, because he thought it was a Senate race.
He thought Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh have authority to remove a
Republican candidate from an election. And, like you, he didn't
understand that the "Republican" in that race quit because she was
standing at 20% in the polls.
Marvin The Paranoid Android
Bob -- you're on another posting frenzy and I really don't think you
have any idea what you're doing.
The Democrat in the NY riding won by an approx 4% margin. That's not
close. At all. Considering it's been held by the Republicans since
the 1800's ... heh ...
Put down the keyboard, grab yourself a nice cool beer and flip on Fox
News for a bit.
Cheers, Eh.
Woodswun
I tried to tell Bob just how Republican that district is, but he
really doesn't comprehend how heavily Republican it is.
>
> Put down the keyboard, grab yourself a nice cool beer and flip on Fox
> News for a bit.
Geez, don't encourage him, Marv. LOL!
Woods
>
> Cheers, Eh.
Bob
No, Marvin, that would be you.
>
> The Democrat in the NY riding won by an approx 4% margin. That's not
> close. At all. Considering it's been held by the Republicans since
> the 1800's ... heh ...
It's not over, as I've told you several times, including in the
response I wrote to the email you sent me.
>
> Put down the keyboard, grab yourself a nice cool beer and flip on Fox
> News for a bit.
This isn't Fox News, it's AP:
Headline: "Conservative 'unconcedes' in NY US House race"
By VALERIE BAUMAN (AP) –
ALBANY, N.Y. — Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman has withdrawn
his concession in a close special election for a U.S. House seat, and
New York officials have begun counting paper ballots.
Hoffman's opponent, Democrat Bill Owens, was sworn in after he was
declared the winner of the Nov. 3 election. Hoffman said on Glenn
Beck's national radio show Monday that he's "unconceding" the race.
The latest state Board of Elections results showed Owens ahead by
3,026 votes, not counting more than 7,400 absentee and military
ballots. Counts on those and other paper ballots was beginning
Tuesday.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j0VibvgMRn4zDGTwEZjej-eRI1swD9C1IE480
Marvin The Paranoid Android
No, that would be you.
Bob
No, if you truly believe the New York State 23rd district race is over
(a "long time ago" according to the equally ill-informed Woods), that
would be you.
Bob
>
> On Nov 17, 7:12 pm, Marvin The Paranoid Android
>
> > have any idea what you're doing.
>
> > The Democrat in the NY riding won by an approx 4% margin. That's not
> > close. At all. Considering it's been held by the Republicans since
> > the 1800's ... heh ...
>
> I tried to tell Bob just how Republican that district is, but he
> really doesn't comprehend how heavily Republican it is.
I'm well aware of that fact. And what the two of you are not factoring
is that the Republican vote was split among two candidates. Before the
phony "Republican", Scozzafava, withdrew from the race, the Republican
National Committee was funding her campaign, and running ads against
the Conservative. Even after Scozzafava withdrew from the race, her
name was still on the ballot. And she received some percentage of the
absentee ballot vote. Then there was the fact she endorsed the
Democrat after she left the race, taking some of her votes with her to
the Democrat.
What neither of you is understanding is that a year from now, the
Conservative (Hoffman) will have the Republican Party behind him. The
vote will not be split with a phony "Republican", and he will win
easily. As it is right now, votes are still being counted. I know this
comes as shocking news, and I'm sure you'll continue to deny it. It's
not likely that the outcome of that race with be changed, but it's a
lot closer than either of you think.
[excerpt] Officials in the upstate New York district are still
counting over 10,000 absentee ballots, which also had Republican
nominee Dede Scozzafava's name on them. Scozzafava dropped out of the
race three days before Election Day, citing poor fundraising and
polling returns. She subsequently backed Owens. [end excerpt]
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/67997-hoffman-unconcedes-in-ny-23