Crucial question about Jesus ???

[Mike]

Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.

[Curtis Eagal]

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 10:40:27 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.

You're trying to invent a moral paradox, like how could God allow anyone to become wicked enough to deserve being punished.

Jesus said His words would condemn on the Last Day, and that those who called upon Him in self-righteous ignorance would be rejected.

In theology free will carries moral responsibility, which is why there is esoteric study and ethical concerns over human behavior.

The concept of Jesus as Savior becomes consummated for the faction that makes the proper commitment at the appointed time in history: the meek cohort that achieves salvation cleanse their astral robes white through the divine blood, attaining expiation for their own egregious crimson sins.

The other group characterized by iniquity and being oblivious to esoteric truths was never destined to partake of the spiritual relief Christ offered, instead destined to have their names blotted from the Book of Life, being consigned to the eternal torments of the Second Death lake of fire.

Becoming aware of the consequences of our actions on a spiritual level is the Life Review phenomenon, where one may experience how it felt to be on the receiving end of what we do to and for others. We might discover that the root of all evil is a self-centered lack of empathy, for which there is no remedy. An old adage is that both Heaven and Hell are banquet tables where one can only feed others instead of themselves - so those in Heaven are satisfied, while those in Hell never can be.

[JTEM is Magic]

Mike wrote:

> Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.

I guess the real question is: Will a Jesus control the actions of
others in the exact same way that he did not control yours?

I would say that Doc could repeatedly ply off Greta's jockstrap
with alcohol, have his way with her then walk away the moment
he discovers that she's pregnant, and he can be forgiven. But
just as no supernatural entity stopped Doc from doing this, they
would not stop Greta's celebrity whore parents from murdering
Doc in retaliation for reducing the value of her brand.

Greta could also sue him for child support, or additional alcohol.
The E.U. could demand $16 billion in back taxes because they
feel like it.

They would be just as free to act as Doc was.






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https://jtem.tumblr.com/private/712254658334359552/tumblr_qfaoH4eumBHy8w2DY

[Mike]

On Sunday, 19 March 2023 at 13:59:48 UTC-7, JTEM is Magic wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>
> > Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> > their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.
> I guess the real question is: Will a Jesus control the actions of
> others in the exact same way that he did not control yours?
>
> I would say that Doc could repeatedly ply off Greta's jockstrap
> with alcohol

Is alcohol strong enough though? Greta sounds like a job better
done with Easy Off oven cleaner.

[Mike]

On Sunday, 19 March 2023 at 13:36:29 UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 10:40:27 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> > their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.
> You're trying to invent a moral paradox, like how could God allow anyone to become wicked enough to deserve being punished.

How could he? Is free will really necessary for one to enjoy a meaningful life?

[JTEM is Magic]

Mike wrote:

> How could he? Is free will really necessary for one to enjoy a meaningful life?

If I could make you fall in love with anybody just by writing their name in a
notebook, might that bother you? You'd still be in love. Getting that person
would mean everything that getting a love interest means to everyone else,
only I would force you to feel that way.

Would you consider that okay?

I could pick anyone -- your worst enemy, the ugliest old fat woman at the
market -- and make you head over heels in love with them, just by jotting
their name down in a notebook...

I don't think you'd approve.




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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/712227414145712128

[JTEM is Magic]

Mike wrote:

> Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.prophecies.nostradamus/c/ft41HVUDjAs/m/YcxbtLA1BQAJ

With the Multiverse, it could potentially happen.

Shrodinger's Cat experiment, only from the perspective of the
cat, is called "Quantum Suicide." From the perspective of the
cat, he never dies. No matter what, the experiment always ends
with him surviving... regardless of odds.

Or something.

Maybe in some outcomes he's not a cat and the experiment was
a day dream...

So your consciousness might escape the experience of
consequences, in a Multiverse.



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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/712227414145712128

[Mike]

I hear you speak of the One World vs Many Worlds interpretation.
I don't hear you say anything about the One Observer vs Many Observers
interpretation.

A Many-Observer Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics
https://medium.com/@sschepis/the-observer-is-constant-a-many-observer-interpretation-of-quantum-mechanics-33bfebbec969





>
>
>
> -- --
>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/712227414145712128

[Curtis Eagal]

The answer in esoteric scripture is God declared of those condemned to eternal punishment that they were created from nothing.

Free will is a concept describing an intrinsic factor, obviously people living under authoritarian regimes have their choices limited.

Christianity teaches that Heaven has standards so elevated it is only under the umbrella of Jesus the rain of perpetual torment can be avoided; yet how this Redemption through the Lamb of God would transpire was too complex to be preached in ancient times, the Hebrew prophets were only given certain pieces of information.

The goal of religion is not to have "a meaningful life," but to serve the true God whose intentions have been over-ridden by prolific and determined infernal powers. In the Epistle Nostradamus was hinting how this occurred with Hitler as his Second Antichrist, who must have felt his life as empowered Fuhrer was very 'meaningful' indeed.

[Mike]

On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 10:33:47 UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 6:28:03 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > On Sunday, 19 March 2023 at 13:36:29 UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> > > On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 10:40:27 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > > > Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> > > > their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.
> > > You're trying to invent a moral paradox, like how could God allow anyone to become wicked enough to deserve being punished.
> > How could he? Is free will really necessary for one to enjoy a meaningful life?
> > >
> > > Jesus said His words would condemn on the Last Day, and that those who called upon Him in self-righteous ignorance would be rejected.
> > >
> > > In theology free will carries moral responsibility, which is why there is esoteric study and ethical concerns over human behavior.
> > >
> > > The concept of Jesus as Savior becomes consummated for the faction that makes the proper commitment at the appointed time in history: the meek cohort that achieves salvation cleanse their astral robes white through the divine blood, attaining expiation for their own egregious crimson sins.
> > >
> > > The other group characterized by iniquity and being oblivious to esoteric truths was never destined to partake of the spiritual relief Christ offered, instead destined to have their names blotted from the Book of Life, being consigned to the eternal torments of the Second Death lake of fire.
> > >
> > > Becoming aware of the consequences of our actions on a spiritual level is the Life Review phenomenon, where one may experience how it felt to be on the receiving end of what we do to and for others. We might discover that the root of all evil is a self-centered lack of empathy, for which there is no remedy. An old adage is that both Heaven and Hell are banquet tables where one can only feed others instead of themselves - so those in Heaven are satisfied, while those in Hell never can be.
> The answer in esoteric scripture is God declared of those condemned to eternal punishment that they were created from nothing.
>
> Free will is a concept describing an intrinsic factor, obviously people living under authoritarian regimes have their choices limited.

Even gravity and the lack of wings prevents us from flying.
Can excessing ones will make any difference?
I'm not even clear as to what 'will' means. Is a will just a
desire? Is it an intention, or is it just freedom to think as one
choses? Certainly we are not free to do anything? To my thinking
even God does not have free will. Can even God make one plus
one equal to three? It seems that even Him has some limitations.

>
> Christianity teaches that Heaven has standards so elevated it is only under the umbrella of Jesus the rain of perpetual torment can be avoided; yet how this Redemption through the Lamb of God would transpire was too complex to be preached in ancient times, the Hebrew prophets were only given certain pieces of information.
>
> The goal of religion is not to have "a meaningful life," but to serve the true God whose intentions have been over-ridden by prolific and determined infernal powers. In the Epistle Nostradamus was hinting how this occurred with Hitler as his Second Antichrist, who must have felt his life as empowered Fuhrer was very 'meaningful' indeed.

I don't understand any of this at all.
Can God's will really be 'over-ridden'
by 'infernal powers'? The implications
to that is that God isn't really God and there
are certain things beyond his control.

I'm not trying to argue, but the truth
is that none of this makes any sense
to me at all. Am I to be condemned for
a lack of understanding, even though
I have tried and tried? That doesn't
feel the least bit like being free to me.
All I desire is for all this to make logical
sense.

[JTEM is Magic]

, Mike wrote:

> I hear you speak of the One World vs Many Worlds interpretation.
> I don't hear you say anything about the One Observer vs Many Observers
> interpretation.
>
> A Many-Observer Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics
> https://medium.com/@sschepis/the-observer-is-constant-a-many-observer-interpretation-of-quantum-mechanics-33bfebbec969

Actually, this appears to be a paraphrasing of what I've been saying
for a long time:

WE are the wave function.

The photon exists everywhere it has the potential to exist, in every
state it can exist in. It's us that are the question mark, our
consciousness. WE don't know which version of reality WE will
consciously experience until WE perform the observation and/or
measurement.



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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/712227414145712128

[Mike]

Do you really mean to say 'We'? Or do you actually mean 'I' ?
To my thinking 'We' is unprovable by any physical means.
Consciousness is not in the realm of proofs, especially
the awareness of being other than ones self. You can tell
me you exist till the cows come home, but how can I really
be sure of that. You could be just a hologram or a
NPC (non playing character).



>
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>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/712227414145712128

[JTEM is Magic]

Mike wrote:

> Do you really mean to say 'We'? Or do you actually mean 'I' ?
> To my thinking 'We' is unprovable by any physical means.
> Consciousness is not in the realm of proofs, especially
> the awareness of being other than ones self. You can tell
> me you exist till the cows come home, but how can I really
> be sure of that. You could be just a hologram or a
> NPC (non playing character).

Perhaps it's the royals "We." You never can tell with me.

Whether you have proof that anyone else exists or not, you have
no choice but to proceed as if we do. You can't barge into their
apartments, or reach over in line at the market at grab their tits,
or relieve yourself in a crowded elevator. You just have to assume
that others really do exist, they perceive things as you do, to an
extant, and you have to conduct yourself as if everyone is real
and they have expectations/limits just as you do.





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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/712209282631909376

[Mike]

On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 12:49:10 UTC-7, JTEM is Magic wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>
> > Do you really mean to say 'We'? Or do you actually mean 'I' ?
> > To my thinking 'We' is unprovable by any physical means.
> > Consciousness is not in the realm of proofs, especially
> > the awareness of being other than ones self. You can tell
> > me you exist till the cows come home, but how can I really
> > be sure of that. You could be just a hologram or a
> > NPC (non playing character).
> Perhaps it's the royals "We." You never can tell with me.
>
> Whether you have proof that anyone else exists or not, you have
> no choice but to proceed as if we do. You can't barge into their
> apartments, or reach over in line at the market at grab their tits,
> or relieve yourself in a crowded elevator.

Some do, and they get away with it.

>You just have to assume
> that others really do exist, they perceive things as you do, to an
> extant, and you have to conduct yourself as if everyone is real
> and they have expectations/limits just as you do.

You are still free to do all that you chose if you
are willing to take the consequences. That doesn't
mean the characters are real, it just means the game
has consequences. Besides it's not really that I don't
think you exist. I think you are actually me in one of these
super imposed states. You are the wave function that
collapsed into something else, and so I see you as
the invisible part of something external and physical.
You are the me in another Universe, so to speak, the
me that made different observations that collapsed
into something else. The wave function or superposition
appears as an external consciousness, because ones
consciousness can only hold one thing at a time.
There is only one state of being and that state is 'I'.
Even a slug experiences itself as 'I'.



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>
> https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/712209282631909376

[JTEM is Magic]

Mike wrote:

> Some do, and they get away with it.

> You are still free to do all that you chose if you
> are willing to take the consequences.

There's two problems, the greater & lesser.

The Greater Problem: Facing consequences when you have done
no wrong.

The Lesser problem but still a problem: Not facing consequences
when they should.

Of the latter, best examples of Elon Musk never NOT breaking the
law, swindling investors, lying to customers and out right committing
fraud when he pretending he had financing and was taking Tesla
private, just to jack up the price of the stock...

Even so it's "Lesser" than persecuting someone who did nothing wrong.

You heard of the "White Rose?" The students in German who published
anti war pamphlets during WWII? They were executed.

But they were activists, self avowed enemies of the state, so to speak,
and political prisoners. Let me tell you about Robert Dorsay...

Here'e a poor translation:

“When Hitler is entering a town, a girl holds out a tuft of grass to him. Hitler asks:
‘What should I do with it?’ The girl replies, ‘Everyone says that when the Fuhrer
dies, better days will come.'”

A better translation I heard -- whether an actual translation or one that better
conveys the means, I dunno -- is that the girl is holding a pile of dust because
"Everyone says that things will get better when the Fuhrur bites the dust."

Yeah, he was executed. But not for the joke alone.

See, they checked his mail and discovered that he also said "When will this
idiocy end?" in reference to the war.

There were people arrested for having an "Unauthorized" hiking club!

Those are the WORST type of injustices. The Elon musks of the world are
the second worse and the third worse -- well below elon musk -- would be
ordinary people getting away with it.

Elon Musk isn't allowed to be held accountable. Period. So that does make
him an extremely huge injustice. And people who are innocent being
prosecuted are the worst form.






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https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/712209282631909376

[Steven Douglas]

On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 10:40:27 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
>

> Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.

In the Lord's prayer, Jesus taught us to pray to our Heavenly
Father that He lead us away from temptation, and deliver us
from evil. For those who truly believe and pray about it, there
is a protection from delving into things we should not do.

It's not always perfect protection since we have free will, but
if we (believers) start to do the wrong thing, the Holy Spirit is
there to give us a sick feeling in the pit of our stomachs, to
remind us that what we're doing is wrong.

[Mike]

On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 20:59:12 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 10:40:27 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> >
> > Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> > their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.
> In the Lord's prayer, Jesus taught us to pray to our Heavenly
> Father that He lead us away from temptation,

No, that is not what it says. It says lead us not into temptation,
which is not the same thing at all. The implication is that God
will lead one into temptation unless one begs for him not to
do that.

>and deliver us
> from evil. For those who truly believe and pray about it, there
> is a protection from delving into things we should not do.

Why do you tell lies each day here, then deny being a liar?
Do you pray to change your ways? Don't you feel that pit in
your stomach evert time you tell a lie?

>
> It's not always perfect protection since we have free will

What exactly is the 'will'. The meaning to me is still vague
and unclear. Is the will ones' desire? There intentions?
We can all wish (or will) having wings that can fly to the
Moon, but as far as I know that 'will' will never manifest.
What does it mean to be 'willing'?

Am I missing something? What does 'I will to will Thy will'
mean? The 'will' seems like a very vague definition. Perhaps
you can shed some light on that.

>, but
> if we (believers) start to do the wrong thing, the Holy Spirit is
> there to give us a sick feeling in the pit of our stomachs, to
> remind us that what we're doing is wrong.

Some people get that sick feeling even if doing something right.
Sometimes doing the 'right thing' can have undesirable consequences
that one must consider. Do you not get a sick feeling in your
stomach thinking of all the Japanizes children that were
fried. How do you feel about killing so many innocents
civilians in Iraq? Do you think it was worth it? Did the
'Holy Spirit' guide you to support it?

[Steven Douglas]

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:21:24 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 20:59:12 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 10:40:27 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > >
> > > Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> > > their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.
>
> > In the Lord's prayer, Jesus taught us to pray to our Heavenly
> > Father that He lead us away from temptation,
>
> No, that is not what it says. It says lead us not into temptation,
> which is not the same thing at all.

Yes it is. Lead us not into temptation means lead us away from
temptation.

>
> The implication is that God
> will lead one into temptation unless one begs for him not to
> do that.

That's why we pray. God does test people. Even Jesus was tempted,
which is probably why he gave us that prayer.

>
> >and deliver us
> > from evil. For those who truly believe and pray about it, there
> > is a protection from delving into things we should not do.
>
> Why do you tell lies each day here, then deny being a liar?

Give an example. Just one example, Mike. You keep making this
false claim about me, then you never back it up when I ask you
to give an example. Of course you have nothing, because I stand
by everything I say on this group.

>
> Do you pray to change your ways? Don't you feel that pit in
> your stomach evert time you tell a lie?

I probably would if I was the liar you falsely claim I am. Yet you
can't even give one example.

> >
> > It's not always perfect protection since we have free will
>
> What exactly is the 'will'. The meaning to me is still vague
> and unclear. Is the will ones' desire? There intentions?
> We can all wish (or will) having wings that can fly to the
> Moon, but as far as I know that 'will' will never manifest.
> What does it mean to be 'willing'?

"Free will" means being able to do things without restriction.
>
> Am I missing something?

Apparently.

>
> What does 'I will to will Thy will'
> mean? The 'will' seems like a very vague definition. Perhaps
> you can shed some light on that.

Probably not, since even if I try, all you want to do is argue.

>
> >, but
> > if we (believers) start to do the wrong thing, the Holy Spirit is
> > there to give us a sick feeling in the pit of our stomachs, to
> > remind us that what we're doing is wrong.
>
> Some people get that sick feeling even if doing something right.
> Sometimes doing the 'right thing' can have undesirable consequences
> that one must consider. Do you not get a sick feeling in your
> stomach thinking of all the Japanizes children that were
> fried.

I wonder why you never mention the Germans who were bombed
by your country? Those bombs killed a lot of people, too. They
were just as dead as the Japanese people who were killed.

It's a complicated world, with evil people who cause a lot of
misery. Yes, I'm sure anyone who has to kill people would get
that sick feeling, even if they're doing it to stop an evil such as
Hitler or the Japanese Emperor.

But my example was not about war. I was trying to answer your
question, but I'm starting to regret that I tried since you are now
taking the discussion in a completely different direction.

>
> How do you feel about killing so many innocents
> civilians in Iraq? Do you think it was worth it? Did the
> 'Holy Spirit' guide you to support it?

Those civilian deaths can all be attributed to the terrorists who
started blowing people up after Saddam had been removed from
power. And I supported the ouster of Saddam from power, because
he and his sons were evil monsters who tortured and starved the
Iraqi people.

It would help if you looked at the evil of the real monsters of this
world, such as Hitler, the Emperor of Japan, Saddam Hussein and
his sons, etc. and realize it was they who caused all the deaths
that upset you so much -- except you want to place the blame on
the people who wanted to STOP the evil of the people you don't
blame. You are very confused, Mike. You really need to rethink
some things.

[Mike]

On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 22:04:21 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:21:24 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 20:59:12 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 10:40:27 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> > > > their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.
> >
> > > In the Lord's prayer, Jesus taught us to pray to our Heavenly
> > > Father that He lead us away from temptation,
> >
> > No, that is not what it says. It says lead us not into temptation,
> > which is not the same thing at all.
> Yes it is. Lead us not into temptation means lead us away from
> temptation.
> >
> > The implication is that God
> > will lead one into temptation unless one begs for him not to
> > do that.
> That's why we pray. God does test people. Even Jesus was tempted,
> which is probably why he gave us that prayer.

I think that is ***EVIL*** ~!!!

> >
> > >and deliver us
> > > from evil. For those who truly believe and pray about it, there
> > > is a protection from delving into things we should not do.
> >
> > Why do you tell lies each day here, then deny being a liar?
> Give an example. Just one example, Mike. You keep making this
> false claim about me, then you never back it up when I ask you
> to give an example. Of course you have nothing, because I stand
> by everything I say on this group.
> >
> > Do you pray to change your ways? Don't you feel that pit in
> > your stomach evert time you tell a lie?
> I probably would if I was the liar you falsely claim I am. Yet you
> can't even give one example.

The example is right here you claiming never to have ever lied.
I don't know a single other person that would make such a claim.
That you would be different would be highly improbable. And
telling fibs are not always bad. Was your dad a liar if he taught
you to believe in Santa? Have you never lied because you thought
telling the truth would hurt someone? But subtle lies are not what
I'm talking about. I think you are a blatant LYING LIAR! Even if
I point it out as clear as day as I did above, you will find some
way to blatantly deny it. So tell me, have you never told a fib?
And believing a fib is just as bad. Did you believe in Santa
as a kid? Were your parents liars for making you believe that
if they did. Most kids are truth to believe in Santa. I had to
figure the truth on my own. Even the evening news sometimes
deceive kids to believe in fiction like Santa.

> > >
> > > It's not always perfect protection since we have free will
> >
> > What exactly is the 'will'. The meaning to me is still vague
> > and unclear. Is the will ones' desire? There intentions?
> > We can all wish (or will) having wings that can fly to the
> > Moon, but as far as I know that 'will' will never manifest.
> > What does it mean to be 'willing'?
> "Free will" means being able to do things without restriction.
> >
> > Am I missing something?
>
> Apparently.

Probably because you are not telling the truth.
The truth is generally without contradictions,
and is usually clear.

> >
> > What does 'I will to will Thy will'
> > mean? The 'will' seems like a very vague definition. Perhaps
> > you can shed some light on that.

> Probably not, since even if I try, all you want to do is argue.

You are just projecting (in other words lying).

> >
> > >, but
> > > if we (believers) start to do the wrong thing, the Holy Spirit is
> > > there to give us a sick feeling in the pit of our stomachs, to
> > > remind us that what we're doing is wrong.
> >
> > Some people get that sick feeling even if doing something right.
> > Sometimes doing the 'right thing' can have undesirable consequences
> > that one must consider. Do you not get a sick feeling in your
> > stomach thinking of all the Japanizes children that were
> > fried.
> I wonder why you never mention the Germans who were bombed
> by your country? Those bombs killed a lot of people, too. They
> were just as dead as the Japanese people who were killed.

I do not support the killing of anyone and especially people
I don't know. You on the other hand have supported or agreed
with wars. I think it's wrong to kill anyone, especially on someone's
else behalf. The only time I would condone the killing of anyone is
in direct self defense.

>
> It's a complicated world, with evil people who cause a lot of
> misery. Yes, I'm sure anyone who has to kill people would get
> that sick feeling, even if they're doing it to stop an evil such as
> Hitler or the Japanese Emperor.

The truth is that I don't know much about Hitler or the Japanism
emperor. So much of history is based on lies and I'm not the one
who can figure it out. I prefer not to have solid views on things
I can know little about.

>
> But my example was not about war. I was trying to answer your
> question, but I'm starting to regret that I tried since you are now
> taking the discussion in a completely different direction.

Why did you even answer then? I didn't need to hear anything
from you. JTEM and Curtis gave lots to think about. All you
know how to do is argue and blame shift.

[Steven Douglas]

On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 10:51:03 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 22:04:21 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 9:21:24 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > > On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 20:59:12 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > > On Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 10:40:27 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Can Jesus save someone from the consequences of
> > > > > their actions. I know he saves, but that is not the same.
> > >
> > > > In the Lord's prayer, Jesus taught us to pray to our Heavenly
> > > > Father that He lead us away from temptation,
> > >
> > > No, that is not what it says. It says lead us not into temptation,
> > > which is not the same thing at all.
> > Yes it is. Lead us not into temptation means lead us away from
> > temptation.
> > >
> > > The implication is that God
> > > will lead one into temptation unless one begs for him not to
> > > do that.
>
> > That's why we pray. God does test people. Even Jesus was tempted,
> > which is probably why he gave us that prayer.
>
> I think that is ***EVIL*** ~!!!

God bless you, Mike.

[Mike]

That would have meaning if it came from someone good,
but I'm not so anxious about blessings from a DEMON!!

[Steven Douglas]

The blessing is from God. I really doubt a demon would wish
that you be blessed by God. But a demon would be as angry
as you are. So get rid of your demon, Mike. Pray to God about
it, and I will continue to wish that you be blessed by God.

[Mike]

On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 00:08:53 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:59:00 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 23:55:54 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> >
> > > God bless you, Mike.
> >
> > That would have meaning if it came from someone good,
> > but I'm not so anxious about blessings from a DEMON!!
> The blessing is from God. I really doubt a demon would wish
> that you be blessed by God.

No a demon will call the devil God.

>But a demon would be as angry
> as you are. So get rid of your demon, Mike. Pray to God about
> it, and I will continue to wish that you be blessed by God.

Please don't. I prefer something mor tangible than 'blessings'
from anyone.

[Curtis Eagal]

It is a wrong path to apply human judgment to God, since by definition God is perfect. We are in a fallen state, undergoing a test which will determine our eternal destinies towards either salvation or damnation. This manifests as a spiritual battle, where the infernal powers have been granted certain concessions, as the Marian apparition at La Salette implied their being empowered in 1864 related to the Pluto-South Node conjunction prior to the First Vatican Council, since it symbolizes 'The Tail Of The Dragon In Hades' - the same infrequent aspect occurred in August 1969, reflected in the Revelation 12 passage where the devil is cast out of heaven to reach earth in great wrath, knowing his influence would be for a short time.

I've written about the return from the Moon Landing, Manson family murders, and so on in the wake of the August 1969 Pluto-Node opposition, both in newsgroups, and more elaborately in the first volume of my book series. It is a choice derived from free will that keeps this material from even being widely discussed. Major highlights from pop culture are foretold for esoteric relevancy, obliterating the possibility of comprehension for those repudiating such notions. So the substance of those passages could be easily explained, but most people would likely choose not to believe the conclusive solutions, simply for being outlandishly amazing fulfillments.

We are told that law is clear and no one is above it, but Rachel Maddow just explained how Trump appointed an attorney general who issued instructions to disregard campaign finance violations when that became problematic, and the Republicans refer back to that as evidence that it must not have been important. This is the process the seer predicted as the gradual extermination of a country's legal processes. One side says no one should be above the law, the other side asserts that any pursuit of legal consequences against their chosen leader can only be taken as a baseless partisan political attack.

On Meet The Press they covered an old story of a Reagan supporter touring the Middle East in summer 1980 telling local leaders to relay that Iran should keep the US hostages to deny Carter any pre-election boost - the hostages were released the day Reagan was inaugurated, after Carter had to admit his attempts to release them had failed.

People in power make critical decisions without always needing to disclose or justify their rationale: it is incumbent upon the average person to choose how to react, regardless of their power over the situation. Without the Jesus incarnation in control, humanity will continue its moral degradation, until the final righteous act is one of defiance resulting in the New Martyrdom - that too is an act of free will, non-compliance with the blasphemous acceptance of the beastly mark and all the iniquity it entails.

[Steven Douglas]

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 12:25:19 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 00:08:53 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:59:00 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > > On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 23:55:54 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > >
> > > > God bless you, Mike.
> > >
> > > That would have meaning if it came from someone good,
> > > but I'm not so anxious about blessings from a DEMON!!
>
> > The blessing is from God. I really doubt a demon would wish
> > that you be blessed by God.
>
> No a demon will call the devil God.

Would a demon spend time on this group referencing the Bible
as often as I have? Would a demon try to correct you all those
times you have misquoted the Bible, and/or taken verses out
of context to try to make it appear that the Bible says things
it does not say?

>
> >But a demon would be as angry
> > as you are. So get rid of your demon, Mike. Pray to God about
> > it, and I will continue to wish that you be blessed by God.
>
> Please don't.

It always interests me that you are so inclined to flee from the
real teachings of the Bible. Here's what I was referring to when
I suggested you pray to God about getting rid of your demon:

From James 4:7 -- "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil
and he will flee from you."

>
> I prefer something mor tangible than 'blessings' from anyone.

I know, and it doesn't surprise me that you flee from it.

[Curtis Eagal]

The King James Bible ostensibly endorses slavery and other overtly immoral concepts, which was antagonistic to abolition efforts. The Confederate states contended the North was at fault for not returning their human property which had transported themselves to freedom, adding the African races were well-suited to work in the warm climate, making their enslavement an economic priority. Hebrew Law allows for a slave to be freed after seven years, without whatever family members they had who were also owned, or receive a mark in public for permanently relinquishing their freedom.

Telling someone to read and believe everything in the Bible is irresponsible, since implicitly no critical reasoning is being applied to the convoluted tales, nefarious intrigues and diametrically opposing instructions that comprise the various scriptures. Hate your enemy or turn the other cheek, the correct path is clear, so the negative one is from the enemy and needs to be taken out by the root.

Biblical texts are historic-episodic, with stories centuries apart suggesting variations on themes developing from the Genesis family era, undergoing permutations through reincarnation in different relationships. Judas betraying Jesus in this sense could be a replay of Cain killing his brother Abel.

The Bible is a collection of recorded stories about perceived metaphysical interactions and dubious human responses.

Modern culture benefited by rising above the insidious Law of satanic origin, however we can see the tendency to reassert traditional concepts of society in a regressive movement against all things 'Woke,' that threaten to redress the grievances of those fate would be pre-determined as unfortunate by virtue of their intrinsic being in the 'good old days' as they see it. The Law was not there to teach, but indoctrinate into practices that would outrage the Higher Powers: demanding the Cruel Sacrifice, over which Providential Mercy would have been preferred by the true Deity.

The lesson of the Prophets surfaces perennially, yet it is cryptic and tantalizes the faculties. So the Bible as superficially interpreted allows the reader to connect most strongly with the clearly immoral Law implanted by the infernal forces - as Jesus suggested, it would take the wisdom of a serpent to be a disciple, while remaining guileless as a dove. The Judeo-Christian notion that pain and suffering needs to be induced as a moral imperative is the false paradigm most are eager to propagate.

[Mike]

On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 10:43:05 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 12:25:19 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 00:08:53 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:59:00 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > > > On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 23:55:54 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > God bless you, Mike.
> > > >
> > > > That would have meaning if it came from someone good,
> > > > but I'm not so anxious about blessings from a DEMON!!
> >
> > > The blessing is from God. I really doubt a demon would wish
> > > that you be blessed by God.
> >
> > No a demon will call the devil God.
> Would a demon spend time on this group referencing the Bible
> as often as I have? Would a demon try to correct you all those
> times you have misquoted the Bible, and/or taken verses out
> of context to try to make it appear that the Bible says things
> it does not say?

The God in the Bible comes across as a sacrificial demon.
Those who blindly follow the Bible are often following demons.

> >
> > >But a demon would be as angry
> > > as you are. So get rid of your demon, Mike. Pray to God about
> > > it, and I will continue to wish that you be blessed by God.
> >
> > Please don't.
> It always interests me that you are so inclined to flee from the
> real teachings of the Bible. Here's what I was referring to when
> I suggested you pray to God about getting rid of your demon:
>
> From James 4:7 -- "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil
> and he will flee from you."
> >
> > I prefer something mor tangible than 'blessings' from anyone.
> I know, and it doesn't surprise me that you flee from it.

Even Curtis below seemed to imply that I'm right.
You are truly a ***DEMONIC DEMON***

[Steven Douglas]

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 11:16:59 AM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
>
> The King James Bible ostensibly endorses slavery and other overtly immoral concepts,
> which was antagonistic to abolition efforts.

Slavery predates the Bible. What the Bible did was put guidelines on how
slaves should be treated, and that they should be freed upon the death of
the slaveholder. If the Bible had come along and immediately banned
slavery, the Bible would have been ignored and the guidelines it did put
in place would never have existed. Slavery would have gone on as it
always had.

If anything, the Bible eventually led to the abolition of slavery, which would
never have happened if the pagans who invented slavery and originally
practiced it had not had those guidelines put in place by the Bible.

>
> The Confederate states contended the North was at fault

The slaveholders in the Confederate states did not abide by the guidelines
given in the Bible. They tried to use the Bible as an excuse to keep their
slaves, but they were wrong. Every slave should have been set free upon
the death of the slaveholder. They should not have been passed down from
generation to generation.

>
> for not returning their human property which had transported themselves to freedom,

Well, finally the United States went to war to end slavery on this continent.
That was after ALL the Northern states had banned slavery within 25 years
of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. So, slavery that was
brought here by Europeans was ended by Americans. And when the
Confederate states did not want to give up their slaves, the United States
of America insisted that they do.

But does the United States ever get any credit for ending an institution
that was already here when the United States came into existence? No,
of course not. All you leftists would rather hate your own country than
give it credit for doing something that needed to be done -- namely
ending slavery.

>
> adding the African races were well-suited to work in the warm climate, making their enslavement
> an economic priority. Hebrew Law allows for a slave to be freed after seven years, without
> whatever family members they had who were also owned, or receive a mark in public for
> permanently relinquishing their freedom.

Thank you for pointing that out. Did the Confederates that you cited above do
that, or did they not do that?

>
> Telling someone to read and believe everything in the Bible is irresponsible,
> since implicitly no critical reasoning is being applied to the convoluted tales, nefarious
> intrigues and diametrically opposing instructions that comprise the various scriptures.

I realize you like to pick and choose which parts of the Bible you feel
like following, and which you don't. I have noticed that you feel free
to ignore the parts of the Bible tell us to stay away from astrologers,
mediums, divination and sorcery.
>
> Hate your enemy

There is no command in the Bible to hate one's enemy. In fact, Jesus
said we are to love our enemies -- which is a difficult concept for some
of us, but it's the command for which we are supposed to strive.

>
> or turn the other cheek, the correct path is clear, so the negative one is from the enemy
> and needs to be taken out by the root.

That's exactly what Jesus did in Matthew 5:43-44. The teaching to
which he referred about hating one's enemy did not come from the
Bible. But I am certain it did come from the enemy.

>
> Biblical texts are historic-episodic, with stories centuries apart suggesting variations on
> themes developing from the Genesis family era, undergoing permutations through reincarnation
> in different relationships. Judas betraying Jesus in this sense could be a replay of Cain killing
> his brother Abel.

So you don't really believe the Gospels? Are you actually JTEM pretending
to be someone else?

>
> The Bible is a collection of recorded stories about perceived metaphysical interactions
> and dubious human responses.

In other words, you're an atheist.

[Steven Douglas]

On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 1:18:57 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 10:43:05 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 12:25:19 AM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, 21 March 2023 at 00:08:53 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > > On Monday, March 20, 2023 at 11:59:00 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, 20 March 2023 at 23:55:54 UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > God bless you, Mike.
> > > > >
> > > > > That would have meaning if it came from someone good,
> > > > > but I'm not so anxious about blessings from a DEMON!!
> > >
> > > > The blessing is from God. I really doubt a demon would wish
> > > > that you be blessed by God.
> > >
> > > No a demon will call the devil God.
>
> > Would a demon spend time on this group referencing the Bible
> > as often as I have? Would a demon try to correct you all those
> > times you have misquoted the Bible, and/or taken verses out
> > of context to try to make it appear that the Bible says things
> > it does not say?
>
> The God in the Bible comes across as a sacrificial demon.

You and Curtis are peas in a pod.

[JTEM is Magic]

Curtis Eagal wrote:

> The King James Bible ostensibly endorses slavery and other overtly immoral concepts,
> which was antagonistic to abolition efforts.

The Church of England, the Anglicans, what is called Episcopalians in America, owned
slaves... owned a whole goddamn plantation! I want to say a sugar plantation... at least
one.

Slavery was the norm. If you were born in the ante bellum south, white, on a plantation,
it is expressively doubtful you could think slavery was bad. It would have been not
only completely normal for you but, completely normal for all of civilization. Even
today slavery is a thing.

The EuroTrash have done an EXCELLENT job of writing themselves out of the narrative
but, did you know that slavery ended in Haiti because of a slave revolt? Haiti was a
French possession, btw. Even so, the BRITISH invaded, tried to restore slavery. It was
only after they failed when they re-thought their position on the subject.

Never hear about that. Nobody talks about the Europeans paying reparations.

San Fransisco has a "Recommendation" to pay each and every African American
$5 million in reparations -- amongst over 100 expensive recommendations -- and
California wasn't even a slave state!

Oddly, nearly any African American who can trace their ancestry here back to before
the Civil War does have slave owner ancestors...

So you're taxing people who never owned slaves, who probably don't have ancestors
who ever owned slaves, in order to give the money to people who are descended from
slave owners...




-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/712227414145712128

[Mike]

I noticed your friend Thomas is still lurking.

[Steven Douglas]

I wish he would post more often.

[Curtis Eagal]

Not an atheist in the slightest - an astral voice instructed me to read the Bible from cover to cover when I was eighteen, and the underlying theme became immediately apparent. The test is to separate God's truth given to Prophets from the very differently-sourced Law given to Abram and Moses of an insidiously demanding nature.

The story of the census of King David is in two versions: one says God ordered it; the other says they figured out it was the Devil instead, and an angel gave three options for causing mass fatalities to invalidate the result. The census was of men able to fight, a clear stirring up of War that was admittedly demonic in nature.

People interpret the synagogue of Satan verse from Revelation as being anti-Semitic, but the initial sacrifice of a red heifer according to Henoch's dream re-enacts the fratricide of Abel, with a black heifer killing a red one. I studied comparative religion, Henoch recorded many things beyond that dream of human destiny, like a depiction of the New Jerusalem descending as Treasures of Blessing. The Zoroastrian Bundahisn illuminates Revelation: God wipes away the tears from the righteous, but it was explained everyone weeps when the wicked souls are separated for punishment; the angelic garb described is their sacred sudreh-kushti robe and girdle woven with prayers.

You eliminated how I can explain much of Revelation as recent history in your malicious uninformed opinion - none of it requires circumcision, slavery, or capital punishment, strongly endorsed by the ancient Law. The entity that told Abram to plunge a knife into Isaac's heart was not the angel that prevented it by saying doing nothing to the child is what was preferred. Isaac's birth was predicted by the visiting holy man who later went to Sodom and brought fire down to destroy the city when the two angels he sent ahead were harassed - so the infernal powers knew Isaac was the Messianic figure and actually wanted to nip his life in the bud, through the blind faith of his father Abram.

The Hebrews had lost the key to discriminating between good and evil manifestations: texts in a more ancient language explained the Higher Powers used visions, while the infernal forces had simple apparitions; Marian visionaries have described experiencing an enveloping substitute for normal reality.

The path of unrighteousness so strongly resonates with some they vociferously resist the esoteric truths emerging that were too complicated for ancient peasants. Certainly the Magi could observe the planets and compare findings to prophetic texts from Daniel in the Babylonian Captivity era, but the people recording their efforts for posterity left a document demonstrating lack of coherent knowledge.

I have deduced the Geneva Pediment formation of Saint Patrick's Day with Saturn and the Vertex, and Venus for the Crest, was the 'marvelous case' from II.92 line 2, and the mobile symbol being intrusive to the two equals of the same inclination (1 degree 1 minutes in their respective signs sextile aspect) from I.54. The last line of II.92 was fulfilled the first week of 2023 with the McCarthy Speakership vote debacle; the 6 February sibling quakes at the Turkey-Syria border caused the 'great human murder' at the feast for two nephews of Saint Patrick. And I.54 concerned the Saturnin timing of the revolt on 6 January 2021 having a recurrence - the fourth Saturnin cycle appears when Ceres has retrograded out of Libra, before Pluto enters Aquarius, an interval of about 8.5 hours. However the conditions for the cataclysmic onset in Geneva arrive with the double Grand Trine at the Jupiter lunar conjunct, with two ominous Grand Trines within the subsequent Saturnin period.

Jesus said to watch for the day that will fatefully arrive for the whole world, as in Isaiah 24, and the seer's 24th paragraph in the Epistle; that it parallels the Warning of Garabandal, and the Hopi Day of Purification, is to be expected.

[Curtis Eagal]

Bill Maher sees the non-repudiation of slavery in scripture as proof the thinking was inside the then-human-Box, nothing of divine origin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_2Xi-p3gJU

[expletives not deleted in discussion clip]

When the centurion asked Jesus to cure his slave at home, it was known Roman solders were forbidden to marry, no visit was required.

Jesus knew the Law regarding lepers, so when they were cured the instruction was given to report to the priests and demonstrate they no longer need to be ostracized.

He openly challenged Sabbath circumcisions when being admonished for healing 'a whole man' (meaning an uncircumcised Gentile) on the same day.

Jesus lashed out at the inverted priorities of the elders and priests who maintained a theocracy under Roman occupation; and it was only during the Last Supper in John's gospel version the Apostles admit to being somewhat enlightened about the End-Of-Age scenario.

The Satanic Law orders are like stories from Ouija Board infernal contact victims, the Ark of the Covenant specifications have been likened to a huge capacitor; when it fell into enemy hands they suffered, until a mystic said the return must be by animals that never had been under the yoke before.

The Saturn-Venus-Vertex triangular formation 17 March 2023 11:22 pm CET using Geneva coordinates was dubbed the Shamrock Pediment: Saturn in Pisces and Venus in Taurus during extended sextile at 1 degree 11 minutes respectively, having the Vertex passing briefly through the same position in Cancer - fulfilling II.92 end of line 2, and the second half of I.54. That is an extremely refined conceptual construction for an isolated triplicated aspect, so obscure that an advanced program provided the solution.

[Steven Douglas]

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 11:35:00 AM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 9:18:00 PM UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 11:16:59 AM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
>
> > > The Bible is a collection of recorded stories about perceived metaphysical interactions
> > > and dubious human responses.
>
> > In other words, you're an atheist.
>
> Not an atheist in the slightest -

Which "god" is it that you believe in? The way you try to tear apart the Bible,
it's apparent that you don't believe in the God of the Bible.

>
> an astral voice instructed me to read the Bible from cover to cover when I was eighteen,
> and the underlying theme became immediately apparent. The test is to separate God's
> truth given to Prophets from the very differently-sourced Law given to Abram and Moses
> of an insidiously demanding nature.

Why do you think the Bible is so popular, while whatever it is that you believe
is not?

>
> The story of the census of King David is in two versions: one says God ordered it;

How ironic that you wrote somewhere above in this thread, "It is a wrong path to
apply human judgment to God, since by definition God is perfect." And now you
turn around and question God's judgment with your own human
judgment.

We don't always know why God works the way He does, because as He said in
Isaiah 55:8, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my
ways, declares the Lord."

>
> the other says they figured out it was the Devil instead,

Anyone who has studied the Bible (as you say you have) should know that the
Bible has a way of clarifying itself. Of course it was Satan who incited David
to order that census, but God allowed it because He was angry with Israel.

If you have ever studied the original Hebrew of 2 Samuel 24:1, it becomes
more apparent that it was the anger of God that incited David to take that
census. And again, we can't apply our human judgment to God, as you so
wisely pointed out above.

I'm really not interested in your attempts to distort God's word. If you want
to agree with atheists and portray the Bible as flawed, feel free to do it. But
don't expect me to honor it in any way.

[Steven Douglas]

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:39:46 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
>
> Bill Maher sees the

How truly interesting that you say you're "not an atheist in the slightest",
yet you turn around and cite an atheist to me -- as if I care what Bill Maher,
the renowned atheist, thinks. Just absolutely incredible.

[Curtis Eagal]

So your mind is so closed that you cannot appreciate a valid point from anyone you have decided is not in your ideological camp - what is incredible is your referring to yourself as acting from genuine Christian principles.

[Curtis Eagal]

The entity I am referring to only claimed that if Abram did what was instructed it would become HIS God, named for a son of the pagan father deity El, the warrior Yahweh.

When Moses requested to see it, he was only allowed a glimpse of the hindparts; a perimeter was set up around the mountain with orders to kill whoever would sneak close enough to get a glimpse of what was really being encountered.

Both accounts of the census accurately reflected their knowledge, meaning they were deceived at first, and that had to be dealt with after the fact.

No one intervened to say do not follow that instruction, the angel had three ways to kill a lot of people afterwards and one was chosen.

There was a civil war after Solomon's son wanted to use scorpions to whip people, then the Prophets foretold the Captivity because there was paganism, and the split Hebrew nation was eventually overcome by two captivities.

You are dismissing me because I raise the point that God did not intend to hold the hand of a chosen people, that was part of the temptation, variations of which id not work on Jesus. Also the Book of Jubilees tells a more complete story from the Genesis era, where the entity claims that angels are created in a circumcised state, and the act performed on infants is to prevent them from remaining children of Belial - that is an attack on human anatomy, since the male foreskin is especially concentrated with nerve endings even among primates, receptors ten times more dense than in the fingertips (and it is not naturally meant to retract in eight days).

Jesus said to judge by reality justly, knowing that was not the tendency, then or now.

[Mike]

He has narcistic personality disorder.

[Curtis Eagal]

Generally the right-wing pseudo-Christian faction has long ties to false posturing, and self-serving double-standards, lately with adherence to invented evidence-free motivations. Maybe a cultish co-dependence, with regional-demographic feelings creating vehemently-held locally-popular opinions.

That being the case in some places, there is nearly unanimous agreement without debate on several issues, held tenaciously as collective cultural identity. "Fear is the mind killer" is a famous Messianic science fiction line for good reason: major religions develop fear, which may be valid, but triggers reflexive reactions. The disclosure of the mysteries is a scholarly learning process at the proper times that would likely not be concerning to a zealot expecting whatever was in a movie, pamphlet, or daydream.

Jubilees also explained how when the families of the sons of Noah cast lots to populate the post-Deluge territory, one faction decided not to move according to the result, usurping the land Abram would have rightfully received. So when the entity offered the Promised Land to Abram it literally was already (though occupied), making a clear enticement. The Warrior Deity Yahweh, one of EL's Seventy Sons, offering progeny as numerous as the sand of the sea, to Abram near 100 years old, foregoing the Rainbow covenant for the sons and male servants making a flesh sacrifice (consent not relevant).

The book also describes how earlier post-Deluge the spirits of the demonic-hybrid Nephilim could kill people at will, and it was decided only ninety percent of them could be sent to the place of banishment (which could have been the Moon, according to the Hopi): the remaining tenth were allowed to remain under service of the chief fallen angel, dedicated to proving that the human species was unworthy, having witnessed their capability for great evil.

The Nephilim were spawned by demons in male form with female descendants of Cain, and were cannibalistic giants who mostly devoured children (their demonic component suggests torture too, along the Grimm Brothers line); the angels implored God for instructions as the innocent souls cried out, which eventually had the Nephilim slaughtering each other before the Deluge.

After it was known the Nephilim were determined to deceive humanity, Abram turned from the rampant paganism, and his likely legitimate grievance over the lots for land dispute was perhaps used strategically by an entity to convince him that a pagan deity proven real was his metaphysical benefactor. Sem brought the remnant of Adam's skull to Golgotha at Jerusalem, as Adam foretold on his deathbed, redemptive blood would be spilled where it rested, the name referring to the place for Adam's skull.

[Steven Douglas]

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 3:46:11 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 2:42:53 PM UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:39:46 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill Maher sees the
> >
> > How truly interesting that you say you're "not an atheist in the slightest",
> > yet you turn around and cite an atheist to me -- as if I care what Bill Maher,
> > the renowned atheist, thinks. Just absolutely incredible.
>
> So your mind is so closed that you cannot appreciate a valid point from anyone you have
> decided is not in your ideological camp -

I am not obligated to entertain the false teachings of atheists.

Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing
but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Matthew 7:15

In 2 Timothy 3:5, Christians are instructed to avoid such people who have the
appearance of godliness, but deny its power.

>
> what is incredible is your referring to yourself as acting from genuine Christian principles.

If you can find a Christian principle in the Bible that would teach me to
disobey the two examples I gave just above, show me.

[Steven Douglas]

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 3:58:56 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
>

> He has narcistic personality disorder.

I have no disorders, doctor. I am in excellent health, thank God!
I am truly blessed.

[Steven Douglas]

On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 5:27:45 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
>
> Generally the right-wing pseudo-Christian faction has long ties to false posturing,

It's you who is offering falsehoods. I have offered Biblical evidence
of why I am a Christian, while you have offered a bunch of garbage
that is anti-Biblical. Are you really an atheist, trying to get me to
renounce my belief in God?

[Curtis Eagal]

You are abusing scripture by projecting, I have numerous examples for anticipating fulfillments by the French seer that transpired beyond random probability, which makes neither of us false prophets by any measure.

You are becoming reflexively defensive because you expect to be rewarded by Jesus for failure, which is a scenario He explicitly outlined as relating to false faith in Himself; you have a social support group in this misled belief, because as with politics a bubble of lies has been created where Truth cannot penetrate, and everyone within is deceiving themselves in a feedback loop where ignorance is the only accepted answer.

You want to see yourself as the sheep, invariably judged innocent, and anyone disagreeing as the goat: yet your salvation is not the benchmark for moral discussions you want to make it. The sheep-goat dichotomy ha to do with how others are treated, objective rather than subjective morality.

I have not denied the deific power, only explained it in a manner that you find personally offensive without rationality, so your other passage does not apply either, and even if it did, it is cowardly to shut out opposing viewpoints; the only purpose of such a practice would be fear of conversion by successful debate. From Elijah to Simon Peter the agents for divine change have not shirked from confrontation for fear of being misled by wicked liars, they expressed their own truths.

You can angrily make these absurd statements about my beliefs, contradicted by the reality where I kept with II.92 from the Speakership debacle the first week of 2023, seeing the story of Saint Telemachus inferred, then acknowledged the two quakes on 6 February coincided with the feast for two nephews of Saint Patrick for the great murder of the previous line. I don't know how you think that means I'm an atheist, it would be impossible for anyone to predict the future so accurately without some metaphysical assistance, and since the Catholic saints are heavily featured it is nonsense for you to resort to a charge as the Pharisees might have voiced against Jesus, such as that His exorcisms were mere stunts performed by the devil's own power. President Lincoln paraphrased the response, that a house divided against itself cannot stand.

Read where Jesus says many will say they ate and drank in His presence, and call upon His name, but as workers of iniquity they will be rebuffed and excluded.

[Curtis Eagal]

Read my other reply to assess whether you have pathological tendencies.

Everything I said is supported by actual texts, you are engaging in a stochastic aggressive attack by forcing points to be repeated that you have premeditated against ever acknowledging like a rational person would. If you seriously wish to debate a particular point, 'bunch of garbage' and 'anti-Biblical' are not serious issues but buzzword evasions. You should realize what is in the Hebrew Bible is a fraction of the Jewish literature, the Book of Jubilees tells a far more detailed account of the era covered by Genesis, and I am not required to read any text with anybody else's presumptions limiting my interpretations, otherwise I would not be assessing but being indoctrinated. The Law never had any proof of value behind it, only the work of the Prophets, which is not well-known by most professed Christians.

[Steven Douglas]

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 12:24:48 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:51:13 AM UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 3:46:11 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 2:42:53 PM UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:39:46 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Bill Maher sees the
> > > >
> > > > How truly interesting that you say you're "not an atheist in the slightest",
> > > > yet you turn around and cite an atheist to me -- as if I care what Bill Maher,
> > > > the renowned atheist, thinks. Just absolutely incredible.
> > >
> > > So your mind is so closed that you cannot appreciate a valid point from anyone you have
> > > decided is not in your ideological camp -
>
> > I am not obligated to entertain the false teachings of atheists.
> >
> > Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing
> > but inwardly are ravenous wolves." Matthew 7:15
> >
> > In 2 Timothy 3:5, Christians are instructed to avoid such people who have the
> > appearance of godliness, but deny its power.
>
> > > what is incredible is your referring to yourself as acting from genuine Christian principles.
>
> > If you can find a Christian principle in the Bible that would teach me to
> > disobey the two examples I gave just above, show me.
>
> You are abusing scripture by projecting, I have numerous examples for anticipating fulfillments
> by the French seer

No, I specifically asked for a principle in the Bible that would teach me to
disobey the two examples I posted. You didn't even try, and I'm not at all
surprised.

[Steven Douglas]

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 12:34:15 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:55:39 AM UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 5:27:45 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> > >
> > > Generally the right-wing pseudo-Christian faction has long ties to false posturing,
> > It's you who is offering falsehoods. I have offered Biblical evidence
> > of why I am a Christian, while you have offered a bunch of garbage
> > that is anti-Biblical. Are you really an atheist, trying to get me to
> > renounce my belief in God?
>
> Read my other reply to assess whether you have pathological tendencies.

When you felt inclined to cite the words of an atheist (Bill Maher) to try
to back up your claim that you're not an atheist (as you tried), I think it's
probably far more likely that it's you who has the pathological tendencies.

[Curtis Eagal]

You are embodying fulfillment of the scoffer in Peter's Epistle, those who were obstinately blind and deaf in Henoch's vision-dream.

So your warped response is that I'm so bad I have to to explain how someone virtuous like you should be wasting their time with anything I have to say?

That is maliciously passive-aggressive, self-aggrandizing, and perversely Machiavellian.

It is the SELF-righteous who are to be damned for putting themselves into direct conflict with the Messianic movement as definitely not their cup of tea, so to speak.

Henoch describes how they become infuriated with the truth, and go into attack mode because they never comprehended how Revelation would unfold.

The complete explanations for prophetic fulfillment have been ignored here for over twenty years as I've witnessed, there is no evidence of this culture being any but the one that refuses to Mourn in the foretold Remembrance. Not caring about any part of that while exalting oneself into certain salvation as a debate-killer is not the righteous Henoch described, rather the opposing mindset.

Why should I think someone obviously taking the role of some ignorant soul complicit with a figure destined for perdition has anything but nefarious intentions?

[Mike]

The best way to manage a narcissist I've been told is:
1). Don't engage
2). Don't defend
3). Don't explain
4). Don't personalize

He makes it difficult, but sometimes I still try.

[Steven Douglas]

Uh, no, since I'm the ONE poster here who has been mentioning that
we are in the End Times of the Bible, and the scoffers have been
letting me know how they feel about what I have to say about us
being in the End Times.

But it is absolutely amazing that you could turn that on its head
and decide that I am the scoffer because I reject your false and
anti-Biblical teachings.

>
> those who were obstinately blind and deaf in Henoch's vision-dream.

So you're saying I am blind and deaf because I choose to follow
what the Bible teaches and ignore your false teachings?

>
> So your warped response is that I'm so bad I have to to explain

You don't have to do anything. I told you to continue to post as you
please, but do not expect me to honor what you post.

[Steven Douglas]

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 3:34:29 PM UTC-7, Mike wrote:
>
> The best way to manage a narcissist I've been told is:
> 1). Don't engage
> 2). Don't defend
> 3). Don't explain
> 4). Don't personalize

Curtis demands that I be open minded and accept his false teachings.
I'll try to remember your advice, Mike. Thank you.

[Curtis Eagal]

I don't think there's anything wrong with being an atheist, or agnostic, or that it should invalidate an opinion by its source; it simply is not possible for me due to my experiences.

When Kathryn Khulman brushes your temples with her fingertips, and your legs give out from under you because you're too happy to stand, and ushers are there to catch you, it's difficult to doubt.

Then one day you find yourself standing in an astral greyish-blue Void alongside white-robed figures with heads in radiant orbs, facing a pearlescent Orb Throne, and the existence of a Supreme Being ceases to be a matter for debate.

I was not making Maher some expert, merely noting that the Hebrew Law on its face to a modern person has overtly immoral elements.

Rather than attacking Maher for not sharing your beliefs, the challenge was to defend the morality of the worst of the Law, which you attempted with some mental acrobatics that were unconvincing. His point stands that if the Law were of the same origin as the Prophecy, which continually stands as proven, it would make sense in a logical, beneficial way. Instead it would have facilitated someone like yourself in power having myself and anyone agreeing with me executed en masse to root out the dissent and record it as a glorious event.

The prophet Samuel brought rain out of season to show God did not want the people to choose a king, but they wanted King Saul anyway, because he was very tall - these are the sort of morally ambiguous, and even gruesome stories found in the Bible. After the civil war, one king pretended to be pagan, and held a huge event - then locked the doors, and burnt the whole place down. Are you endorsing all of that?

[Curtis Eagal]

The valid question in there has the loaded phrasing "I choose to follow the Bible" along with the lie you are the one who believes this is End-Times, which demonstrates the inherent hypocrisy of the other. You cannot be aware of End-Times without having an audio-visual Epiphany described by Isaiah and reiterated by Jesus that explains major portions of Revelation. It is the substance of my book "A Temple Of Many Mansions," verse-by-verse for the first twelve chapters with extensive explanations, 120 thousand words, so I am not going to summarize again how World War II began with the Nazi invasion of Poland at the breaking of the Seventh Seal. How history coalesced through that period into the 'Sixties emerged with a directed focus. Many of the phrases transcribed were heard in English through instrumental arrangements, in a recording catalog subliminally reminiscing on the life of Jesus: the first several chapters heavily cover esoteric details for these architects depicted as angels.

With that information you would find the seven-year project is transcendentally multi-layered and matches all portents from Daniel, so what was deliberately done recalled Christ, while the Revelation aspects, including a death tangent, emerged as a soul-casting destiny empowerment. Jesus implied at the Last Supper in John's gospel that some future soul would be truthful about what was heard, while telling people about events that would be arriving. Henoch explains Jesus post-Life empowered someone to make texts that would be handed done to assist the character that was not blind and deaf to what a prior group had done. You choose not to believe one sows and the other reaps, and yet profess to follow Christ as teacher.

Instead of taking a sound as noise, it becomes a voice, with auditory crossovers:

'Then They Drank His Blood...'

can be heard instead as the sound-parallel,

'The First Woe Has Been...'

This is the response to a completed process, as part of the authorized genuine unfolding, complete with every bell-or-whistle imaginable.

If I were not certain of the divine commission, or thought anyone else could properly replicate the transcriptions generated, the endeavor would have not been pursued.

[Mike]

Is that a threat or a promise?

[Steven Douglas]

On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 3:43:53 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 3:15:52 PM UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 12:34:15 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> > > On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 11:55:39 AM UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 5:27:45 PM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Generally the right-wing pseudo-Christian faction has long ties to false posturing,
> > > > It's you who is offering falsehoods. I have offered Biblical evidence
> > > > of why I am a Christian, while you have offered a bunch of garbage
> > > > that is anti-Biblical. Are you really an atheist, trying to get me to
> > > > renounce my belief in God?
> > >
> > > Read my other reply to assess whether you have pathological tendencies.
>
> > When you felt inclined to cite the words of an atheist (Bill Maher) to try
> > to back up your claim that you're not an atheist (as you tried), I think it's
> > probably far more likely that it's you who has the pathological tendencies.
>
> I don't think there's anything wrong with being an atheist,

Do you think our society would be improved if atheists were in charge,
and they banned the Bible? Can you imagine a society such as that?

[Steven Douglas]

Jesus told his disciples what the signs of the End Times would be, and it
has only happened in recent years that those signs are now all in place.
It began in 1948, with the rebirth of Israel. Jesus gave this sign in one of
his parables in Matthew 24, when he talked of the fig tree. The fig tree is
the way Israel is referred to in parts of the Old Testament.

So the End Times could not have happened before 1948, and in the parable
of the fig tree, Jesus indicated that Israel would be prosperous and secure,
something that has only happened in recent years.

Then there are the famines, pestilences, and hearing of earthquakes in
various parts of the world. It would have been impossible to hear about
all the earthquakes in various parts of the world before the advent of
global communications.

Other indications are that men's hearts will grow cold. The growing crime
wave, and indications that polite society is getting sicker by the minute.
And the way the media constantly LIE about everything, and trust in the
media is going down the drain fast. We're in that time when good is called
evil and evil is called good.

These are all signs that we are in the End Times. The book of Ezekiel also
talks of a war that will happen in the End Times, when a coalition of Russia,
Iran, and a few others will attack Israel. It's in Ezekiel 38 and 39. This is not
a war that has happened before with the countries specified in Ezekiel, it's
a war that is sitll in the future. And with Russia and Iran cozying up on the
northern border of Israel (in Syria), it's all falling in to place.

But as Jesus told us, no one knows the day or hour, except Father God. So
the signs are in place, and it could happen at any time. Or it might still be
a few years away. But in any case, it's going to happen. And when it does,
Jesus will return to take us, so that where He is we will also be, with Him.
See John 14:3.

[Curtis Eagal]

Of course not, I'm on the Seventh Trumpet Messianic Reign Team, but it's complicated.

The names of the Seven Churches whose angels receive letters transliterate to Chess Pieces, alluding to the Lewis Carroll Looking-Glass 1871 sequel to Wonderland fragmentary game; the framed Pontmain Marian apparition had an effect on the Franco-Prussian War forces as it ended with the Second Reich. Then in 1879 as the real-life Alice was married at Knock, Ireland, levitating luminous holy figures appeared when a famine threatened.

"I stand at The Door, and Knock" is a play on the Irish town name, and the Portal at Pontmain. Saint John in his vision passes through an open Door, as the Pontmain time jump to 1871' with Mary extending her arms beckoning as the veil lifted. Then Saint John is part of the Knock figures, in suspended animation preaching from a book, as if to confirm his astral passage into the modern era.

The four creatures around the Throne repeat a specific praise ceaselessly, to signify the 1932 centenary for Lewis Carroll, then undergoing a soul-casting reassignment manifesting for much of the world as the Great Crown Aurora of early 1938. That kind of complicated.

[Curtis Eagal]

I don't mean to be antagonistic about your personal faith, but in my research f you read closely Jesus was concerned with two different events, based on ancient texts available in His learning phase. One event that would arrive for the whole world, one was to be watchful for, forsaking carousal, lest the thief in the night comes unawares - that is the Isaiah 24 global event also in Nostradamus' Epistle paragraph 24, the sustained trembling event of The Preparation or Purification Day. That cataclysm is at the end of the Seventh of Ten Weeks.

Eighth is Millennial Reign, Ninth for White Throne Judgment - then at the end of the Tenth Week, the four archangels who have been so pivotal will roll up Heaven and Earth like a scroll. And that is when God creates a New Heaven and Earth.

In Revelation they cannot depict that, so they jump back to describe the New Jerusalem that had descended as the camp of the Saints during the Millennial Reign for the epilogue.

[Curtis Eagal]

Alice Liddell was married at Westminster Abbey around the time of the Knock apparitions; two of her sons died during in World War I - the Pontmain apparition had in one phase two white crosses embedded in the Lady's shoulders. There was potential synchronization from the first son's death, of Captain Alan Hargreaves at Rouge Bancs 9 May 1915 and the initial manifestations of a cloud-like form for Fatima visionaries. Leopold "Rex" Hargreaves was being transported for treating wounds from two battle sites when he died in September 1916; the Fatima children concurrently had an angel offering them a spectral Chalice and Host.

Because the Pontmain Lady held a red Crucifix and Figure that became gigantic, and the Knock apparitions featured a Lamb on an Altar, they are two rare instances when a figure symbolic of Jesus is prominent in a Marian apparition. About 200 people witnessed one of several well-documented Knock instances. One of the prologue Church letters promises people worshipping at his feet, which happened for Saint John at Knock in astral form, with people attempting to kiss the intangible feet about eighteen inches above dry ground during a rainstorm. The first witness had thought it was a light-up holiday display at the local church.

[Steven Douglas]

The first event will be the Rapture, during which Jesus will return as
described in John 14:3 and take his followers out of here. The world
will suddenly be missing many millions of Christians, and at first the
people who are left behind are going to think it's great to have a world
without all those Christians.

But after three and a half years, the Tribulation will begin. The world
will become a hellish place to be, probably like the description given
in Isaiah 24. It's also described in Revelation, as I'm sure you're aware.

Finally, after another three and a half years of Tribulation, the Second
Coming of Jesus will occur. This time everyone will know He's here.
As Jesus describes it, "For as the lightning flashes in the east and
shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes." Matthew 24:27.

Another description of the Second Coming is in Revelation 19:11–14.

[Curtis Eagal]

Thanks for that window into your thought processes. Here's some of what you (or whoever you're following) missed.

There is scant scriptural basis for a Rapture, Revelation only has the two witnesses ascending after 3.5 days of appearing dead; this has been explained on Wikipedia in extreme detail effectively - 'caught up in the air with Him' is an ambiguous concept that could be applied to Remembrance of the Ascension, the first stage since it was created in regressive mode.

You cannot start with Rapture, that's like saying first you'll walk on water, or fly, then everything will be clear after that; it has to be clear BEFORE something like that.

The evangelical misreading of the Daniel Seventy Weeks prophecy and Revelation 11 has the seven years as a horrible Tribulation, when it was actually the creation of the Remembrance phenomenon in two parts. First 42 months of sacrifice and oblation, during which the holy city Jerusalem was trampled underfoot by Gentiles, meaning not under Israeli control; the second phase commenced when the two witnesses clothed in sackcloth associated with the peaceful symbol of the olive tree met - and exactly 3.5 years later to the day the Christian Revival project was completed. This seven year period broken into two parts included the Six-Day War in its second half, whereby Jerusalem was regained so the Holy City was no longer being trodden underfoot by Gentiles in control - that is a more significant marker than the earlier creation of the nation state.

I am constrained from delving too much into the signs for the Second Coming Messiah, since that figure has communicated this should not be done to uplift Himself until society has submitted to the Great Mourning that He set into occurring before his prior incarnation, by breaking the Seven Seals.

What was done during the seven-year period is not some great mystery, but acknowledging it properly to enact the divine confirmation requires sounds to be transcribed into words, and images to be interpreted esoterically. The ingredients have been there for over half a century, with baroque references beyond that never seeming to have as profound an effect. It is a story of collaborative synergy that has already played out for history, using subliminal communication as yet unassessed by the general public.

The moment of carnage was an infamous image with smeared blood on butcher smocks, cuts of raw meat, and decapitated baby dolls with eyes removed: whether it was a play on the offering of one's own flesh and blood as in the Last Supper Transubstantiation, or a demonstration of merely being flesh and blood in response to 'holier than thou' national accusations, the original plan had included gilded haloes being added in the style of religious icons.

[JTEM is Magic]

Steven Douglas wrote:

> Uh, no, since I'm the ONE poster here who has been mentioning that
> we are in the End Times of the Bible

Reagan was convinced that we were in the End Times, back in the 1980s.

American Protestantism is in lust with the "End Times" fantasy, where
they're all "Saved" and all us wretched filth are "Left Behind."

Of course, that's because Protestant sects are very anti Christian, anti
God...

"...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

Matthew 22:32

Yes I broke it up. But the numbers are artificial. The followed the writing
of the bible by hundreds or more than a thousand years, depending upon
the narrative you enjoy.

But you do get it, right? While Jesus bitch slapped the Sadducees, told
them that God is not the God f the dead but the living, the Protestants are
obsessed with death.

God is all about "The End Times," Armageddon: Apocalypse!

Makes you want to puke, don't it?




-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/712626036266926080/jj-foleys

[Madhu]

* Curtis Eagal <38bae736-1b04-4464-b52b-b0f7ab4cddedn @googlegroups.com> :
Wrote on Wed, 22 Mar 2023 11:34:59 -0700 (PDT):

[I've only read this post, mayb I'll try to read some other posts over
the weekend]

> The story of the census of King David is in two versions: one says God

> ordered it; the other says they figured out it was the Devil instead,
> and an angel gave three options for causing mass fatalities to
> invalidate the result. The census was of men able to fight, a clear
> stirring up of War that was admittedly demonic in nature.
>
> People interpret the synagogue of Satan verse from Revelation as being
> anti-Semitic, but the initial sacrifice of a red heifer according to
> Henoch's dream re-enacts the fratricide of Abel, with a black heifer
> killing a red one. I studied comparative religion, Henoch recorded
> many things beyond that dream of human destiny, like a depiction of
> the New Jerusalem descending as Treasures of Blessing. The
> Zoroastrian Bundahisn illuminates Revelation: God wipes away the tears
> from the righteous, but it was explained everyone weeps when the
> wicked souls are separated for punishment; the angelic garb described
> is their sacred sudreh-kushti robe and girdle woven with prayers.
>
> You eliminated how I can explain much of Revelation as recent history
> in your malicious uninformed opinion - none of it requires
> circumcision, slavery, or capital punishment, strongly endorsed by the
> ancient Law. The entity that told Abram to plunge a knife into
> Isaac's heart was not the angel that prevented it by saying doing
> nothing to the child is what was preferred. Isaac's birth was
> predicted by the visiting holy man who later went to Sodom and brought
> fire down to destroy the city when the two angels he sent ahead were
> harassed - so the infernal powers knew Isaac was the Messianic figure
> and actually wanted to nip his life in the bud, through the blind
> faith of his father Abram.

The "holy man" you refer to was the preincarnate Messiah. The infernal
powers probably believed they could prevent the birth of the messiah
(who would be descended from Isaac) by killing off Isaac.

> The Hebrews had lost the key to discriminating between good and evil
> manifestations: texts in a more ancient language explained the Higher
> Powers used visions, while the infernal forces had simple apparitions;
> Marian visionaries have described experiencing an enveloping
> substitute for normal reality.

Texts unless they are inspired are unreliable for understanding
prophecy.

[Curtis Eagal]

The passage in Matthew 24 where Jesus speaks of people being taken versus left, it is in the context of a recurrence of the Noah Deluge circumstances:

So being taken means destroyed, while being allowed to remain left behind means survival.

The text with Greek version:

en
ἐν
in
Prep
3588 [e]
tais
ταῖς
the
Art-DFP
2250 [e]
hēmerais
ἡμέραις
days
N-DFP
1565 [e]
ekeinais
ἐκείναις
those
DPro-DFP
3588 [e]
tais
ταῖς
-
Art-DFP
4253 [e]
pro
πρὸ
before
Prep
3588 [e]
tou
τοῦ
the
Art-GMS
2627 [e]
kataklysmou
κατακλυσμοῦ ,
flood
N-GMS
5176 [e]
trōgontes
τρώγοντες
eating
V-PPA-NMP
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj
4095 [e]
pinontes
πίνοντες ,
drinking
V-PPA-NMP
1060 [e]
gamountes
γαμοῦντες
marrying
V-PPA-NMP
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj
1061 [e]
gamizontes
γαμίζοντες ,
giving in marriage
V-PPA-NMP
891 [e]
achri
ἄχρι
until
Prep
3739 [e]
hēs
ἧς
that
RelPro-GFS
2250 [e]
hēmeras
ἡμέρας
day
N-GFS
1525 [e]
eisēlthen
εἰσῆλθεν
entered
V-AIA-3S
3575 [e]
Nōe
Νῶε
Noah
N-NMS
1519 [e]
eis
εἰς
into
Prep
3588 [e]
tēn
τὴν
the
Art-AFS
2787 [e]
kibōton
κιβωτόν .
ark
N-AFS
39 2532 [e]
39 kai
39 καὶ
39 And
39 Conj
3756 [e]
ouk
οὐκ
not
Adv
1097 [e]
egnōsan
ἔγνωσαν ,
they knew
V-AIA-3P
2193 [e]
heōs
ἕως
until
Conj
2064 [e]
ēlthen
ἦλθεν
came
V-AIA-3S
3588 [e]
ho
ὁ
the
Art-NMS
2627 [e]
kataklysmos
κατακλυσμὸς
flood
N-NMS
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj
142 [e]
ēren
ἦρεν
took away
V-AIA-3S
537 [e]
hapantas
ἅπαντας ;
all
Adj-AMP
3779 [e]
houtōs
οὕτως
thus
Adv
1510 [e]
estai
ἔσται
will be
V-FIM-3S
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
also
Conj
3588 [e]
hē
ἡ
the
Art-NFS
3952 [e]
parousia
παρουσία
coming
N-NFS
3588 [e]
tou
τοῦ
of the
Art-GMS
5207 [e]
Huiou
Υἱοῦ
Son
N-GMS
3588 [e]
tou
τοῦ
-
Art-GMS
444 [e]
anthrōpou
ἀνθρώπου .
of Man
N-GMS
40 5119 [e]
40 tote
40 τότε
40 Then
40 Adv
1510 [e]
esontai
ἔσονται ⇔
will be
V-FIM-3P
1417 [e]
dyo
δύο
two
Adj-NMP
1722 [e]
en
ἐν
in
Prep
3588 [e]
tō
τῷ
the
Art-DMS
68 [e]
agrō
ἀγρῷ :
field
N-DMS
1520 [e]
heis
εἷς
one
Adj-NMS
3880 [e]
paralambanetai
παραλαμβάνεται ,
is taken
V-PIM/P-3S
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj
1520 [e]
heis
εἷς
one
Adj-NMS
863 [e]
aphietai
ἀφίεται .
is left
V-PIM/P-3S
41 1417 [e]
41 dyo
41 δύο
41 Two [women]
41 Adj-NFP
229 [e]
alēthousai
ἀλήθουσαι
will be grinding
V-PPA-NFP
1722 [e]
en
ἐν
at
Prep
3588 [e]
tō
τῷ
the
Art-DMS
3458 [e]
mylō
μύλῳ :
mill
N-DMS
1520 [e]
mia
μία
one
Adj-NFS
3880 [e]
paralambanetai
παραλαμβάνεται ,
is taken
V-PIM/P-3S
2532 [e]
kai
καὶ
and
Conj
1520 [e]
mia
μία
one
Adj-NFS
863 [e]
aphietai
ἀφίεται .
is left

*

People marrying and giving in marriage, eating and drinking, when the Son of Man arrives, as when Noah was dismissed warning about the Flood, all the signs being ignored as life goes on unimpeded by taking impending Doom seriously.

Then Noah entered the Ark and the ones who did not want to know about the Flood were swept away. The Son of Man arriving would be like that.

Then it will be as two in the field with one taken and one left.

Two women grinding at the mill - one is taken, and one left.

Keep watch therefore, since you do not know on what day your Lord will arrive.

*

It is a comparison of apathy and being preoccupied in both the Deluge and the Apocalypse, so that few can be made to care enough to be distracted from ordinary living.

The different verbiage for being taken by the the Flood has an upward connotation, versus those being taken in the later context flatly meaning taken in Greek usage; but the connecting theme is that it is better to have the advantage of esoteric wisdom, even if simply accepted from a reputable source, than to ignore those offered truths and suffer for being obstinate when they prove correct.

This was the case where determining a critical time for the whole world would become a relevant task.

The time no one could know is the end of the Tenth Week, when Heaven and Earth pass away, yet the words of Jesus will somehow be sustained into the remade dimensional duality.

[Curtis Eagal]

The Adamic family had seed souls for the Messianic and Infernal branches for perennial reincarnations. Abram was like Adam tempted again; Noah was the Comforter born after Seth died, who had replaced teenage fratricide victim Abel.

The genealogy for Jesus is from the House of David, long after the time of Abram and Isaac, whose son Jacob fathered the Twelve Tribes.

I avoid Gnostic texts, which were produced from imagination and are thus suspect.

Some eastern texts are too vague to easily grasp the meaning.

With Nostradamus the definition of terms is the puzzling factor, not as much as the actual words themselves.

When texts from different sources have significant intersections, it usually illuminates both.

Prophetic evaluation is only impressive when situations can be found that comprehensively match, however incredibly; anything still in the future cannot be discussed as genuine unless there is an associated tendency to be accurate, then it is considering various 'could be' scenarios.

[Steven Douglas]

Maybe that's all we need. It's going to be a mystery to those left behind
when it happens, and world leaders will be making excuses for why all
those Christians are gone. Jesus certainly talked about preparing a place
for us, so that where He is we may also be (John 14:3).

Feel free to believe whatever you choose. I have no interest in debating
this with you.

[Steven Douglas]

On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 1:06:17 AM UTC-7, JTEM is Magic wrote:

> Steven Douglas wrote:
>
> > Uh, no, since I'm the ONE poster here who has been mentioning that
> > we are in the End Times of the Bible
>
> Reagan was convinced that we were in the End Times, back in the 1980s.

We've been in the End Times since 1948.

>
> American Protestantism is in lust with the "End Times" fantasy, where
> they're all "Saved" and all us wretched filth are "Left Behind."

Actually, most mainstream Protestant churches do not teach the Rapture.
But it's in the Bible if you look for it.

>
> Of course, that's because Protestant sects are very anti Christian, anti
> God...

Wow, coming from an atheist, I'm going to believe the opposite of
whatever you have to say about anything Biblical.

>
> "...God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
>
> Matthew 22:32
>
> Yes I broke it up. But the numbers are artificial. The followed the writing
> of the bible by hundreds or more than a thousand years, depending upon
> the narrative you enjoy.
>
> But you do get it, right?

No, I think you're full of BS.

>
> While Jesus bitch slapped the Sadducees, told
> them that God is not the God f the dead but the living, the Protestants are
> obsessed with death.

Protestants pretty much believe what Catholics believe. It's the
same theology, but without the restriction on priests not being
able to marry. And Protestants don't have to confess to a man,
they can pray directly to God (as Jesus taught).

And Protestants don't pray to Mary. Protestants pray directly
to our Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus. Also, Protestants
took Jesus off the cross in their churches, because Jesus rose
and defeated death.

>
> God is all about "The End Times," Armageddon: Apocalypse!
>
> Makes you want to puke, don't it?

What makes me want to puke is the condition of our society
after atheists removed Jesus from every aspect of public life.
Ever since atheists got prayer banned in schools, it's been all
downhill ever since. Now we live in Clown World, don't we?
That's that makes me want to puke.

[Curtis Eagal]

It's been thoroughly debunked, being based on misleading translations interpreted badly: if you followed the Greek the word for 'taken' in the Deluge context has the upwards connotation; for the later Greek verb there is no such upwards inference. If they are taken in the same sense of swept away in destruction that is not auspicious, but the phases of the Apocalypse do not feature another Flood.

So the whole point was to pay attention to somebody who knows about the 'Flood' of the Second Coming, which you have just said you wish to know nothing of - EXACTLY LIKE THE WRONG PEOPLE OF NOAH'S TIME!

In Henoch's version they are taken to the Abyss that opens in both dimensions, then closes over them.

Jesus told His friends the Apostles He has was preparing a place for them; you have not come back with the passage about false believers being rebuffed, so I assume you are ignoring what Jesus said when it does not serve your self-exalting Rapture notion. If only two people ascend after lying as dead for 3.5 days, how does that translate to billions of people flying into the stratosphere because they see somebody levitating in robes who they killed a couple thousand years earlier?

I'm telling you the history matches the prophecy, you're spinning nonsense fairy tales like that's superior and all you need to get by.

One obstinate family member being proven wrong said to me, it's not enough to just tell me once, you have to tell me again and again, and keep on telling me - with some people even that isn't enough

[Steven Douglas]

Why don't you cite Bill Maher again, maybe he can convince me
of your way of thinking.

>
> being based on misleading translations interpreted badly: if you followed the Greek the
> word for 'taken' in the Deluge context has the upwards connotation; for the later Greek
> verb there is no such upwards inference.

Well, there is the part where he talks about clouds and in the air.
I'm not sure why you think it's so important to try to put doubt in
my mind, but I want to assure you that you do not have that ability.

So one more time, feel free to believe what you choose because
I really, really, really have no interest in debating this with you.

[Curtis Eagal]

Luke 13:

The Narrow Door

22 Jesus[b] went through one town and village after another, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. 23 Someone asked him, ‘Lord, will only a few be saved?’ He said to them, 24 ‘Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able. 25 When once the owner of the house has got up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and to knock at the door, saying, “Lord, open to us”, then in reply he will say to you, “I do not know where you come from.” 26 Then you will begin to say, “We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.” 27 But he will say, “I do not know where you come from; go away from me, all you evildoers!” 28 There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrown out. 29 Then people will come from east and west, from north and south, and will eat in the kingdom of God. 30 Indeed, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.’

* Matthew 7:

The Narrow Gate

13 ‘Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road is easy[d] that leads to destruction, and there are many who take it. 14 For the gate is narrow and the road is hard that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

* 25 *

The Judgement of the Nations

31 ‘When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, “Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.” 37 Then the righteous will answer him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” 40 And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family,[g] you did it to me.” 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, “You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” 44 Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” 45 Then he will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’

*

A broadly-believed non-scriptural heresy cannot be the elusive Narrow Path to Salvation, especially when those espousing it rarely exhibit the altruistic qualities ascribed to the sheep as contrasted with the selfish goats. The moral dichotomy cannot be bluffed by those intending to storm Heaven itself.

* Revelation 11:

7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, 8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that is prophetically[a] called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days members of the peoples and tribes and languages and nations will gaze at their dead bodies and refuse to let them be placed in a tomb; 10 and the inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and celebrate and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to the inhabitants of the earth.

11 But after the three and a half days, the breath[b] of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and those who saw them were terrified. 12 Then they[c] heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, ‘Come up here!’ And they went up to heaven in a cloud while their enemies watched them. 13 At that moment there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

*

In verse twelve there is a perhaps Resurrection and Ascension double-turnaround for the two witnesses, which has to mean a couple of some kind.

The number of martyrs will be completed, from the Fifth Seal remark: they are in white robes holding palms, in Remembrance of Palm Sunday - they also stand at a glassy-calm sea mingled with fire.

* Revelation 15:

2 And I saw what appeared to be a sea of glass mixed with fire, and those who had conquered the beast and its image and the number of its name standing beside the sea of glass with harps of God in their hands. 3 And they sing the song of Moses, the servant[a] of God, and the song of the Lamb:

*

They're standing and singing next to a fiery flat ocean, not flying anywhere.

New Jerusalem descends and the leaders enter it, again very Earthbound.

[Curtis Eagal]

What could possibly happen with clouds and/or air that would convince you that somebody was the Second Coming Messiah? NT view is He had to return in the flesh, so the only people who could accurately identify Him would be intrepid eschatologists, then they would have to convince the media or the Vatican - of what signs exactly?

So obviously doing that process correctly leads to someone in the flesh checking all the boxes, which has to be convincing enough for the Seventh Trumpet Messianic Reign beginning. Here matters of life and death are noted as foretold on a monthly basis lately, in the era of 'To TikTok Or Not To TikTok' - no one would believe or care.

So anyone uplifting the true Jesus would be roundly ridiculed no matter what their reasons for declaring such a thing.

Pursuing esoteric such hints about clouds and air, versus waiting for an invisible escalator when the real elevator is standing open. It would be outraging to name a living person who fits the Messianic clues, while the people who overcome and learn the New Song apparently commit to His identity at a happening in that moment.

The wicked dis-invite themselves by disbelief, in their mockery of self-righteousness.

Jesus said the wicked would proclaim they deserved Salvation because they ate and drank in His presence, foretelling the Eucharist that was not yet instituted at the Last Supper: so that was a very specific prediction about professed Christians in End-Times, whose warped agenda was detested even then.

There were actual fulfillments where air was darkened for the London era for a certain debut broadcast; and a solar eclipse crossed Europe at another milestone.

If that sort of thing could be discussed as the fulfillment it represented, it could be taking the narrow path towards the elusive solutions, but the road to walking on water wasn't built in a day.

[JTEM is Magic]

Steven Douglas wrote:

> We've been in the End Times since 1948.

Sounds more like the beginning times, if it takes that long.

At least the middle times.

> > Of course, that's because Protestant sects are very anti Christian, anti
> > God...

> Wow, coming from an atheist

I haven't called myself an atheist in... I don't know how long.

"It's religion I don't believe in," I tell people.

Someone's thoughts on God really don't interest me.




-- --

https://jtem.tumblr.com/tagged/phrenology

[Steven Douglas]

That would be the implication of an upward movement, going up into
the air, into the clouds.

>
> that would convince you that somebody was the Second Coming Messiah?

The Rapture is not the Second Coming. As I wrote in an earlier post
(in response to your question), the Second Coming happens seven
years after the Rapture.

>
> NT view is He had to return in the flesh, so the only people who could accurately identify
> Him would be intrepid eschatologists, then they would have to convince the media or the
> Vatican - of what signs exactly?

As Jesus said in Matthew 24:27, "For as the lightning comes from the
east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man
be."

In other words, the Second Coming will be obvious to everyone.

[Steven Douglas]

On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 5:39:15 PM UTC-7, JTEM is Magic wrote:
> Steven Douglas wrote:
>
> > We've been in the End Times since 1948.
>
> Sounds more like the beginning times, if it takes that long.

1948 was the beginning of the End Times. As I have mentioned
previously, 1948 was the year Israel came back into existence.
It's one of the signs Jesus gave to his disciples that had to be
in place before His return.

>
> At least the middle times.

In terms of 2000 years since Jesus gave the signs to his disciples
from 1948 to now is not a long time.

>
> > > Of course, that's because Protestant sects are very anti Christian, anti
> > > God...
>
> > Wow, coming from an atheist
>
> I haven't called myself an atheist in... I don't know how long.

I gladly stand corrected.

>
> "It's religion I don't believe in," I tell people.

I can understand that. It's what the Bible says that is important.

>
> Someone's thoughts on God really don't interest me.

Would you prefer to live in a society that ignores God, such as
they had in the old Soviet Union where Stalin murdered about
30 million of his own citizens for failing to obey him? There,
the government became their god. I actually doubt that you
would prefer a society such as that.

[Curtis Eagal]

As explained, your imaginary chronology is competing with the real thing, where you cannot acknowledge the significant fulfillment of a single line like Revelation 9:2 'the sun and the air were darkened' - you're supposed to know which story is being followed, so that it identifies distinct extreme eclipse and fog events whose significance is in the timing being synchronized. You are not having any of that.

The seven-year period of Daniel's 'Missing Seventieth Week' emerges in Revelation 11, has to be when Jerusalem was regained by Israel from the Six-Day War in 1967: try as you might to make it whatever suits your fancy in service of faulty groupthink, that theory has already been proven by events you haven't properly assessed.

Jesus explained He would be uplifted by someone else, your scenario doesn't allow for that; and there is not the suggestion of Rapture anywhere in Revelation, which covers a lot of material and would have included that if it were to ever happen. There is a lot of apocalyptic prophecy that intersects with Revelation that does not have flying people either.

When Jesus returns it will be as Judge, not as a party balloon you can follow into the sky: and He will be judging based on what occurred AFTER He sent forth His angels without fanfare. You have the attitude Jesus is eager to reward empty detested lip service, and expect that as the first and only step, when the real agenda is to separate the wheat from the chaff, and you have no interest in how that unfolds.

I've been contemplating these cataclysmic lines as precursor events like the Turkey-Syria quakes, Nepal plane crash and Griner-Bout prisoner exchange transpired, checking the factoids against the current judicial astrology, and gradually it yielded a plausible theory: Saturn and Mars near trine with the Vertex daily in Geneva finds Venus at the East Point consistently; when Mercury conjoins Jupiter 28 March 2023 it will upstage Venus claiming the Grand Trine triangular formation with the East Point. And then the last lunar aspect would be with Neptune for III.3, Mercury moves on to Vesta for X.6, the Moon makes the 'New Mars' conjunction for I.94, with the Lady honored through force of terror as Blessed Agnes of Chatillon, honored on 28 March with an additional memorial for her Cisterian order on the subsequent day of 29 March.

This is why the Bible is dangerous for the weak-minded: it will unequivocally state who should be killed with rocks, like Cain did to brother Abel, and celebrate mass executions for dissenters; and there will also be correct prophetic information mixed in elsewhere, as if it were one single ball of wax. Yet the Law twists morality like a pretzel, so that a wise man observed that by following the 'eye for an eye' maxim, the whole world would eventually be made blind.

[Curtis Eagal]

The 'meet Him in the air' phrasing applied to the first stage of Christ's life in reverse, namely the Ascension: thus when the Seventh Bowl was poured on the air it was in X.74 as the completion of the great Seventh number, identified by the Games of Sacrifice - that was the 2010 Winter Olympics with the luge athlete death before opening ceremonies, arriving shortly after my December 2009 release of "The Comedy Of Eros."

The story included touring in a van with a broken windshield during a blizzard compared to the intense frost circa 1776, then a ten-hour marathon session for recordings subliminally suggesting the Ascension, with the finale as a last-minute decision whose exuberant performance overstressed vocal cords. An upwards-angled photo was used for the cover, and publicity shots were snapped while jumping in the air to be seen as levitating. So that is how people could have a cerebral experience in Remembrance of the Ascension, and feel as though they were 'caught up in the air with Him' - mystery solved through the mystical nature of music.

'Up... To... The... Lord's...

THRONE!

...And - Saints!'

[Curtis Eagal]

Without following the logic of prophecy, it is useless - Rev 11 works with Daniels 70th Week idea -

<< Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, ‘Come and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, 2 but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample over the holy city for forty-two months. 3 And I will grant my two witnesses authority to prophesy for one thousand two hundred and sixty days, wearing sackcloth.’ 4 These are the two olive trees... >>

The purpose of the Temple excluding the Court to derive the 42 months was to start with an official status change, namely a debut album release in March 1963 (everything before that is to be excluded from the time calculation); so in Rev 11 this is when Jerusalem is still controlled by Gentiles, mentioned to contrast with the latter phase when this will change via the Six-Day War; Daniel has oblation and sacrifice for this phase, when there was interactive hysteria, until the last day of August 1966, when the plugged was permanently pulled on the group concert experience (where screams obliterated poorly amplified sounds), providing a period of precisely 42 months.

The second phase did not commence automatically, but required a new relationship, with first meeting on 8 November 1966; this culminated in a marital switch and extraneous collaboration, aligned with the contemporary Peace Movement (for the olive trees), and noted for white clothing (and the name Bag Productions for the sackcloth). And exactly three and a half years to the day later, on 8 May 1970, the final stage of the Christian Remembrance was issued, out of sequence due to post-production delays, generally regarding the Nativity phase (giving a major track 'Sunday Church' treatment), after the Annunciation-and-Visitation conclusion that had already been released.

So a modern Temple to Christ was created over the seven-year period, whose properties are only skimmed by the esoteric allusions in Revelation, which was more concerned with making a definitive identification than being a comprehensive fore-summary. The death tangent emerged by serendipity, with wax figures representing the physical shell for astral dissociation, and Carnaby Street fashion emulated into Transfiguring shimmering garb, whose colors shift ominously under the proper blue filter.

[Curtis Eagal]

The pop culture events coincided too closely with the bizarre prophesied elements to expect some further era will accomplish the same things any more convincingly.

Rev 6

'...Behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth'

This scene identifies the mission leader or king among the four, using angel theology, Blessed Michael, also known as the Angel of Death, causing a power dynamic with the first angelic figure in the sequence with the bow and crown, signifying powerful Phanuel. Henoch described angels as wearing military uniforms of brilliant hues, and creating songs that tantalize the mind, sung with incessantly sweet voices. In Rev 6 four souls are being cast together, displaying a unified peak destiny - and they are granted powers for their eventual incarnations: physical dominion within a fourth of the geographic world; and the infliction of a Death Dream in four named stages, to be infused into Christian Remembrance (First Four Seals broken by the Slain Lamb). This was foretold by Henoch as the pivotal strengthening of Phanuel, Gabriel, Raphael, and Michael, as humanity attained nuclear capability.

Rev 9

...The four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 Now the number of the army of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them. Thus I saw the horses in the vision: those who sat on them had breastplates of fiery red, hyacinth blue, and sulfur yellow; and the heads of the horses were like the heads of lions; and out of their mouths came fire, smoke, and brimstone. 18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed—by the fire and the smoke and the brimstone which came out of their mouths'

This is a high-level encryption text, misleading the casual reader: the sword, famine, death and beasts refer to stages in the Remembrance that had symbolic crossovers with the frequently-reported near-death experience.

First visual ink and photo collage inference of a firearm weapon as Sword, with a title that also means Betrayer for the Last Supper phase, and a flesh-and-blood carnage image.

Then the regression into the Ministry encapsulation would take nine months, the emergence depicted as the extraordinary birth of a special Child. Pennies on eyes and in ears declared, astral dissociation with funeral theme for former selves, with favorite heroes assembled, so killing with Death - and a specific date and time indicated, visually and in sound. Third part of Mankind means younger generation, Pied Piper effect. Flowers prominent, with bright fiery colors and prodigious live tableau art design.

'Here's How Many
HORSE-MEN! -:'

'Try Two Hundred Million'

Or was the yodel noise and muttering in the middle section -

'The Trip To INDIA!'

'We're Delighted To Go'

Transformation into elemental Beasts from Lewis Carroll, in a television special featuring smoky cloudscapes and fog banks, further regressed into the Lost Years, in a traveling concept with a tunnel-like bus for the Mystery Tunnel NDE phenomenon. Theme based on characters and scenes symbolic of the Seven Deadly Sins, with songs featuring the Four Cardinal Virtues. Finally in white tuxedoes, under a spotlight, ready for White Light Life Review.

Then meditation with a guru in India going further off-gospel for the Infancy text stories, minimalism with a blank cover, yellow filter brings to sulfurous color, lack of cover image with double album content sparsely arranged, after symphonic leanings, suggestive of Famine - so the famine and sulfur concepts cross-reference, after the beasts emerged, completing the death cycle. The format was patterned on the books of the New Testament, with each song based on a story from the childhood of Jesus, regressing from each of the four vinyl playing sides, using a newly-learned guitar picking technique. The climax send-up of pretentious avant-garde music invoked the Slaughter of the Innocents, where sublime choirs are mixed with violent noises (laser blasts devolving to rifle fire), presenting the battle in Heaven whereby the dragon was cast out, falling to an unprepared Earth. The EMI test tape loop repeating a number backwards sounds like,

'Turn Me On
Dragon'

It sounds like a "The" is implicit.

So reading the text at face value on a superficial level misses finding and verifying what the amazing fulfillments actually are, this is an abridged synopsis and not a complete exegesis. Only those who underwent the angelic death-plague repented according to the text, the others remaining materialistic in worship of inanimate objects.

[Steven Douglas]

Jesus also talked about that in the Olivet Discourse, in Matthew 24.
I have cited Matthew 24 fairly often over the past few months. That
happens at the Second Coming. I am glad that you and I agree that
Jesus will be returning.

Our disagreement is one that is debated by many people, which is
the timing of the Second Coming of Jesus. Whether it happens
before or after the seven-year Tribulation.

But what we do agree on is that Jesus will be returning, and I am
happy that we agree on that!

[Curtis Eagal]

Refreshing that you want to seek common ground. However once deduced, the fulfillment meanings are not discarded but compound in aggregation, so the seven-year period is well-defined by both Daniel and Revelation for confirmation of the divine covenant, and apparently distinct from whatever later ordeals fall under the category of troubling events termed Tribulation, as the consequence of having failed to make that confirmation, and thus falling into breach with the Higher Powers. The first-fruits of the Soul Harvest are the 144,000 who accomplish that confirming action by learning the New Song, before the greater multitude follows then spiritually in white robes with the Palm Sunday Remembrance.

My contention was that the Second Coming Jesus has been incarnated for quite a while, after two other lives that were critically featured in the Revelation vision: the 'Others' Jesus spoke of being destined to perform the Labors were the angels He Himself would send forth, by attending the casting of their souls with the breaking of the first Four Seals; and it is an Apostolic commission to enter into those Labors, reaping what was sown in the creative-deductive sense. Henoch had a passage like the breaking of the Sixth Seal, when the heavenly crowd was given a forewarning of nuclear weaponry, termed 'the concussion of Heaven.'

Maher may have ridiculed my efforts with a comment about the futility of "setting dates" - of course, I am only postulating how various cross-referenced open-ended conditions can be seen to coalesce as written, and acknowledging how this endeavor is continually being proven relevant. Modern society is eager to move on if everything is not explained perfectly the first time around, quick to forget what occurred last week, last month, last year. The sequence of fulfillments since the 25 October 2022 solar eclipse has been astounding.

I missed Saint John dal Bastone for Bologna from IX.13, after connecting the German tornadoes of 1 February 2023 with the Saint Geminiano of Modena feast, and the solar flare at the Buzancais 9 January feast: John dal Bastone studied at Bologna - that could have provided 24 March for the 2023 date of southern US tornadoes. But no geographic location was offered in IX.13, if Bologna simply means 24 March; the Alabama-Mississippi location is distinct from Tornado Alley, and there was an intense cyclone lasting over an hour.

One of the confirming markers was the placement of the Vertex during the 17 March 2023 11:22 pm CET Saturn-Venus sextile at 1 degree 11 minutes : for Geneva, it was 1 degree 18 minutes Cancer (in my program for that incremental minute, moving quickly), forming a Pediment described in I.54 as a movable symbol intruding on two equals of the same inclination; in NYC, the Vertex was around 20.5 degrees Aquarius, which like the west coast Vertex orientation, had no significant relation to the Saturn-Venus aspect. Realizing it occurred allows the 'marvelous case' of II.92 and 'paternal love vexed' from VI.89 to be checked off, towards anticipating further fulfillments.

The 'Death Dream' from 1966 to 1969 having stages corresponding with the spectrum of visible light commenced with the 1966 album cover also suggesting the teaching if the eye is full of light the body is too, and the converse with darkness: dark spectacles and a dark filter on the camera for the back sleeve photo signified the Dark state, with an Orb of light sustained, suggestive of the term "Black Light," of which Lewis Carroll wrote a whimsical science project.

The next cover tableau represented people as trees planted by the Father, versus weeds uprooted and cast into the blazing fire.

When the vision first depicts the Throne, is is surrounded by a rainbow likened to an Emerald, hinting at the green filter.

In Revelation 10 the visible spectrum concludes with infra-red heat, demonstrated by the angel whose face is like the Sun, with feet resembling pillars of fire.

Nostradamus was aware of the esoteric undercurrents that would eventually become known: several noted the VI.37 situation corresponds with the JFK assassination, but were confused by the first line, promising that 'ancient work' was simultaneously being accomplished; there was a second album release on the same day, with a cover implying both the Risen Christ materializing from the Void in quadruplicate, but also by positioning suggesting the disparate moral levels of belief, depending on seeing for oneself.

The hagiology was ominous for 30 March, when the Saturn-Mars trine becomes official (8:15 pm CEST), and Mercury is conjunct Vesta (4:03 pm CEST): Saint Regulus, a Gaul bishop (X.58); Saint Secundus, baptized in Milan for the Lombardy factor (V.42, VI.16); and a Victor martyred in a group with Saint Domninus (VI.70). The Vertex is around 2 degrees Scorpio to form the Grand Trine, a point situated 'Under The Balance' of the Libran constellation (V.42).

The Saturn-Mars-Vertex Grand Trine recurring daily appears to be the triggering aspect for Geneva, at 9:55 am CEST [3:55 am EDT / 12:55 am PDT] on 30 March 2023, arriving immediately after the lunar squares with Mercury and Vesta (X.6 - 8:30 am and 9:26 am CEST, respectively), yet before the Neptunian lunar trine (III.3 - 3:42 pm CEST). The Solar-Lunar square of the Half Moon occurs 29 March 2023 4:31 am CEST, presumably for V.66.

The phrase 'struck with the High-Born' from II.92 could indicate the debasement of Venus as relating to the conjunct with Ouranos (meaning The Heavens, as in VI.70, mythical progenitor of the Titan race) 31 March 2023 12:11 am CEST. The Grand Trine becoming out of synchronization with Venus at the East point implies that was not an issue, but rather the impending conjunction with High-Born Ouranos.

The 'New Mars' of I.94 would then not suggest a lunar conjunct but the new Martian influence within the Saturnin Grand Trine, the Sword in contrast to the solar proximity to Saturn for the 22 February 2023 10:47 am CET Saturnin Grand Trine compared to Gold in IX.44.

The expectation is that with sufficient diligence and resourcefulness the correct combination of offered factoids to observable data will eventually present itself, as has been happening with the precursors leading to the pivotal 'Victor' cataclysmic event.

[Curtis Eagal]

There are subtle hints to the successive Messianic incarnations in the Christian prophetic text.

Revelation 5:

<< And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. 2 Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” 3 And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.

4 So I wept much, because no one was found worthy to open and read the scroll, or to look at it. 5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”

6 And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 Then He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne... >>

In verse 3 no one is capable of handling or looking upon the Scroll, and a period of weeping in verse 4 is halted by the news that there is a worthy Soul - yet the appearance of the 'Slain Lamb' in Heaven requires the passing of the then-living Messianic soul incarnation, cryptically timed after the Carroll centenary in 1932: Alice Pleasaunce Liddell Hargreaves made a brief voyage to the US for the coinciding Wonderland film, and died in England November 1934. The First Four Seals all appear broken during the late January 1938 Great Aurora, when a Russian interrogation subject floated the notion of Stalin joining Hitler in the invasion of Poland, to trigger greater proportional backlash problems for the Nazi regime. When the Seventh Seal was broken, the effect was the Messianic conception (9:1) simultaneous with the Nazi invasion. A Marian visionary foretold the Chamberlain agreement, perceived as having delayed the war slightly, with a quatrain eulogizing him.

Revelation 8:

<< When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. 2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets. 3 Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. 4 And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand. 5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake. >>

Half an hour in Heaven amounts to the time between the September 1939 Poland invasions and the May 1940 Blitzkrieg. About nine months after Polish war onset which was downplayed, the Messianic incarnation renewal had been accomplished, when Hitler rode into Paris as conqueror of France, after the Blitkrieg had dominated the rest of Europe. The first four Trumpets herald the births of the four souls previously cast with the Seals, identified by allusions to corresponding World War II events with elemental subthemes. From the other side it is clear the Lord is in control, King of the Astral Realm, and He sends Himself back to Earth as the quintessential Child of the Second World War - yet also into a karmic stream that allows Him to find and befriend the foursome, joining in on their act as a subordinate player.

Revelation 9:

<< Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. >>

First there is a Fifth Trumpet event, the first of three Woes that finish the cycle: this concerned the Messianic incarnation suffering from an incident progressing towards an untimely death, over a two-year period during which the life as Jesus was recalled in letters, attributable to gradual brain hemorrhage. The vision where a star falls from Heaven is taken by false interpretation as Luciferian, when it is actually a flashback to the Slain Lamb breaking the Seventh Seal to be conceived on Earth, taking on the brilliance of the Scroll and becoming transformed into the Star (and destined for an ill-fated betrothal to someone whose name means Star).

The symbolism is multi-layered and veiled in deceptive simplicity. The Christ Slain-Lamb reincarnate as the Star has a catalytic role in the advent of the foursome, before their lives were touched by fame and success, then from the lethality of the First Woe / Fifth Trumpet, swift demise is implied. By verse 9:4 the reader has left the prophecies for vaguely restructured historical prequel material, and entered the realm of commonly-held legendary career milestones, recognizable from among a plethora of potentially notable exploits and escapades.

The Lamb character returns in chapter 14 for the New Song scene, for the third time within the relatively brief span of perhaps close to a century from the Slain-Lamb era. It is an ongoing schedule that has already demonstrated specific information about selective subjects was foretold in a manner that can be definitively established.

[Steven Douglas]

On Tuesday, March 28, 2023 at 3:45:25 AM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 7:30:26 PM UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
> > On Saturday, March 25, 2023 at 1:09:49 AM UTC-7, Curtis Eagal wrote:
> > > On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 9:59:38 PM UTC-7, Steven Douglas wrote:
>
> > > > As Jesus said in Matthew 24:27, "For as the lightning comes from the
> > > > east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man
> > > > be."
> > >
> > > > In other words, the Second Coming will be obvious to everyone.
> > >
> > > As explained, your imaginary chronology is competing with the real thing, where you
> > > cannot acknowledge the significant fulfillment of a single line like Revelation 9:2
> > > 'the sun and the air were darkened' -
>
> > Jesus also talked about that in the Olivet Discourse, in Matthew 24.
> > I have cited Matthew 24 fairly often over the past few months. That
> > happens at the Second Coming. I am glad that you and I agree that
> > Jesus will be returning.
> >
> > Our disagreement is one that is debated by many people, which is
> > the timing of the Second Coming of Jesus. Whether it happens
> > before or after the seven-year Tribulation.
> >
> > But what we do agree on is that Jesus will be returning, and I am
> > happy that we agree on that!
>
> Refreshing that you want to seek common ground.

And it's the only detail that really matters -- Jesus will be returning.
It's just a matter of when. But there are many signs He gave us in
the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) that are already in place for the
first time ever, with all indications that His return will take place
relatively soon.

[Mike]

Curtis can run circles around you. His posts make so much more
sense than your regular drivel.

[Steven Douglas]

Curtis and I have found some common ground, and I'm going to
leave it at that. I have also tried to find common ground with you,
but you refuse. So be it.

[Mike]

Why should I try to find 'common ground' when I already know
there is none? That's being deceitful and dishonest, especially
with ones self, don't you think?

[Steven Douglas]

But at least I tried.

[Mike]

Yes, you 'tried' to make me believe lies.

[Steven Douglas]

What "lies" would that be? Can you actually put it into words,
or do you just want to continue to generalize with absolutely
nothing of substance to back up your usual BS?

[Mike]

Not all lies are told in words.

> or do you just want to continue to generalize with absolutely
> nothing of substance to back up your usual BS?

I have all the evidence I need. I don't have to prove ANYTHING
to you.

[Steven Douglas]

In other words, you have nothing. Of course.

[Mike]

No, in other words I'm not GIVING YOU anything.
I already have all the evidence I need.

[Steven Douglas]

I know. Because you have nothing.

[Mike]

Coming from a known liar that means
the complete opposite.

[Steven Douglas]

Yes, you are an admitted liar, aren't you?

[Mike]

I have told a few fibs but I don't lie about everything.
What about you. I find you to be very dishonest.
I wonder why I get that feeling?