Re: The Decline of the Catholic Church
Marvin The Paranoid Android
> <itw...@happen.com> wrote in message
> news:1113219133.63d33520ce3ef51189b9c4c3ca4509ae@teranews...
>
>>Pius XII and John Paul II
>>
>>Posted: April 11, 2005
>>1:00 a.m. Eastern
>>By Patrick J. Buchanan
>>
>>2005 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
>>
>>Now that the mourning for John Paul II has ended and he has been laid
>>to rest in St. Peter's, it is time to consider the state of the church
>>he led for 27 years. For, despite his extraordinary life, his holiness
>>and his critical role in bringing an end to communist rule in Eastern
>>Europe, the condition of the church is grave.
>
>
> ..for much the same reasons as Michael Jackson's condition ain't what it
> used to be.
>
>
>
Pedophelia?
itw...@happen.com
Posted: April 11, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Patrick J. Buchanan
2005 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
Now that the mourning for John Paul II has ended and he has been laid
to rest in St. Peter's, it is time to consider the state of the church
he led for 27 years. For, despite his extraordinary life, his holiness
and his critical role in bringing an end to communist rule in Eastern
Europe, the condition of the church is grave.
Two years ago, Kenneth C. Jones of St. Louis pulled together a slim
book he titled "Index of Leading Catholic Indicators: The Church Since
Vatican II." As that church council ended 40 years ago this year, what
good fruit did it bear? Since 1965:
The number of Catholic priests has fallen from 58,000 to 45,000. By
2020, there will be 31,000 and half will be over 70.
In 1965, 1,575 new priests were ordained. In 2002, the number was 450.
Some 3,000 parishes are today without priests.
Between 1965 and 2002, the number of seminarians fell from 49,999 to
4,700, a decline of over 90 percent. Two-thirds of the seminaries open
in 1965 have since closed their doors.
The number of Catholic nuns, 180,000 in 1965, has fallen by 60
percent. Their average age is now 68. The number of teaching nuns has
fallen 94 percent since the close of Vatican II.
The number of young men studying to be Jesuits has fallen by 90
percent and of those studying to be Christian Brothers by 99 percent.
The religious orders seem to be dying out in America.
Almost half the Catholic high schools open in 1965 have closed. There
were 4.5 million students in Catholic schools in the mid-1960s. Today,
there is about half that number.
Only 10 percent of lay religious teachers in 2002 accepted church
teaching on contraception, 53 percent believed a Catholic woman could
get an abortion and remain a good Catholic, 65 percent said Catholics
have a right to divorce and remarry, and in a New York Times poll, 70
percent of Catholics ages 18 to 54 said they believed the Holy
Eucharist was but a "symbolic reminder" of Jesus.
Where three in four Catholics attended mass on Sunday in 1958, today
one in four do.
All this happened during the papacies of Paul VI and John Paul II. Now
let us look back to the 35 years previous to the end of Vatican II,
from 1930-1965, where the dominant pope was Pius XII, the "Catholic
Moment" in America.
In that period, the number of Catholics and priests in America
doubled. The most visible prelate was not Cardinal Law, but Bishop
Fulton J. Sheen, whose TV ratings bested those of Milton Berle, who
cracked, "He has better writers than I do." Parochial schools and
Catholic high schools could not be built fast enough to accommodate
the baby boomers of Catholic parents. Masses were full on Sundays, and
there were long lines outside the confessionals on Saturday.
The papacy of Pius XII was a time of explosive growth in the church,
while that of John Paul II coincided with Catholic scandal and
decline. Was the Holy Father responsible for the latter? No, but it is
regrettably true that the decline that began at the close of Vatican
II continued unabated through the papacy of John Paul II. Conceding
his sanctity and charisma, he was unable to stop it.
But what was the cause of it? Defenders of Vatican II say that blaming
the council "reforms" they cherish for the decline in vocations and
devotion is a classic case of the logical fallacy, "Post hoc, ergo
propter hoc." After this, therefore, because of this.
Simply because a precipitous Catholic decline began with Vatican II
does not mean Vatican II was the cause, they contend. Perhaps not. But
there is no question but that – measuring what the council produced
against what Catholics were promised – it was, in Jimmy Carter's
phrase, "a limited success." Neither Paul VI nor John Paul II was able
to arrest the spread of heresy, defections and disbelief that followed
the Second Vatican Council.
While the church has maintained her numerical strength in America,
this is due only to immigration. As one Chicago priest said, each week
he buries a Lithuanian or Polish Catholic – and baptizes two Hispanic
babies.
What happened to Catholicism is what happened to America. Both passed
through a moral, social and cultural revolution that has altered the
most basic beliefs of men and women. There has been a "transvaluation
of all values." What was considered scandalous or immoral not long ago
– promiscuity, abortion, homosexuality – is now considered
progressive. It says everything about our age that, were a judicial
nominee in America to echo the views of John Paul II on human life,
the Democratic Senate would unanimously filibuster his nomination to
death and denounce him as an extremist.
With much of the church having succumbed to the heresy of modernism,
it needs an Athanasius. As good a man as the pope was, as great as
were his achievements, as noble as was his witness for life, the
Catholic Church still awaits that bishop.
tw
>
> Posted: April 11, 2005
> 1:00 a.m. Eastern
> By Patrick J. Buchanan
>
> 2005 Creators Syndicate, Inc.
>
> Now that the mourning for John Paul II has ended and he has been laid
> to rest in St. Peter's, it is time to consider the state of the church
> he led for 27 years. For, despite his extraordinary life, his holiness
> and his critical role in bringing an end to communist rule in Eastern
> Europe, the condition of the church is grave.
..for much the same reasons as Michael Jackson's condition ain't what it
used to be.
Woodswun
And then there's the fact that people are better educated, and question
what people tell them. Following anyone blindly is no longer a positive
trait - the Dark Ages finally bit the dust.
Woods
itw...@happen.com
>Woods
Yeah, and look where it got us.
Tony
tw
<itw...@happen.com> wrote in message
news:1113314773.18cbe9f6d69cd76f047487d836058e56@teranews...
> >> against what Catholics were promised - it was, in Jimmy Carter's
> >> phrase, "a limited success." Neither Paul VI nor John Paul II was able
> >> to arrest the spread of heresy, defections and disbelief that followed
> >> the Second Vatican Council.
> >>
> >> While the church has maintained her numerical strength in America,
> >> this is due only to immigration. As one Chicago priest said, each week
> >> babies.
> >>
> >> What happened to Catholicism is what happened to America. Both passed
> >> through a moral, social and cultural revolution that has altered the
> >> most basic beliefs of men and women. There has been a "transvaluation
> >> of all values." What was considered scandalous or immoral not long ago
> >> progressive. It says everything about our age that, were a judicial
> >> nominee in America to echo the views of John Paul II on human life,
> >> the Democratic Senate would unanimously filibuster his nomination to
> >> death and denounce him as an extremist.
>
> >And then there's the fact that people are better educated, and question
> >what people tell them. Following anyone blindly is no longer a positive
> >trait - the Dark Ages finally bit the dust.
>
> >Woods
>
> Yeah, and look where it got us.
Into a *vastly* better world, dimbulb. Or would you prefer infant mortality,
life expectancy, literacy and standar of living to return to
pre-Enlightenment levels? (though of course, as far as you'r econcerned, the
enlightenment was just something that happened to other people)
>
> Tony
Marvin The Paranoid Android
> <itw...@happen.com> wrote in message
> news:1113314773.18cbe9f6d69cd76f047487d836058e56@teranews...
>
>>Woods wrote:
>>
>>
>>>itw...@happen.com wrote:
>>>And then there's the fact that people are better educated, and question
>>>what people tell them. Following anyone blindly is no longer a positive
>>>trait - the Dark Ages finally bit the dust.
>>
>>>Woods
>>
>>Yeah, and look where it got us.
>
>
> Into a *vastly* better world, dimbulb. Or would you prefer infant mortality,
> life expectancy, literacy and standar of living to return to
> pre-Enlightenment levels? (though of course, as far as you'r econcerned, the
> enlightenment was just something that happened to other people)
It was *gasp* a LIBERAL PLOT!!
itw...@happen.com
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!
Tony
tw
<itw...@happen.com> wrote in message
news:1113403719.a23b357a521f65d2582b089cbe6e268e@teranews...
> >Or would you prefer infant mortality,
> > life expectancy, literacy and standar of living to return to
> > pre-Enlightenment levels? (though of course, as far as you'r econcerned,
the
> > enlightenment was just something that happened to other people
>
Laughing at yourself, Tone?
Woodswun
Away from the whitewashed graves who were keeping God's children out.
Woods
>
> Tony
Woodswun
The blind shall see and the lame shall walk. God has given us the
knowledge that we are now capable of understanding. Certainly, a
portion of the population misuses it, but the blessings far outweigh those.
Woods
>
>
>
>
>>Tony
>
>
>
The Master
Indeed!
Do also note that it was at about the same time, (the end of the Dark
Ages) that the Tarot was introduced into Europe, sparking off the
Italian Renaissance.
It was quite an exorcism!
The Master
itw...@happen.com
>>>Woods
>Woods
And what the hell is that supposed to mean? Or do I need to smash my
head to understand that line of thought?
Tony
WH
produced
> >>>>against what Catholics were promised - it was, in Jimmy
Carter's
> >>>>phrase, "a limited success." Neither Paul VI nor John Paul II was
able
> >>>>to arrest the spread of heresy, defections and disbelief that
followed
> >>>>the Second Vatican Council.
> >>>>
> >>>>While the church has maintained her numerical strength in
America,
> >>>>this is due only to immigration. As one Chicago priest said, each
week
Hispanic
> >>>>babies.
> >>>>
> >>>>What happened to Catholicism is what happened to America. Both
passed
> >>>>through a moral, social and cultural revolution that has altered
the
> >>>>most basic beliefs of men and women. There has been a
"transvaluation
> >>>>of all values." What was considered scandalous or immoral not
long ago
> >>>>progressive. It says everything about our age that, were a
judicial
> >>>>nominee in America to echo the views of John Paul II on human
life,
> >>>>the Democratic Senate would unanimously filibuster his nomination
to
> >>>>death and denounce him as an extremist.
> >>
> >>
> >>>And then there's the fact that people are better educated, and
question
> >>>what people tell them. Following anyone blindly is no longer a
positive
> >>>trait - the Dark Ages finally bit the dust.
>
> >>>Woods
>
> >> Yeah, and look where it got us.
>
> >Away from the whitewashed graves who were keeping God's children
out.
>
> >Woods
>
> And what the hell is that supposed to mean? Or do I need to smash my
> head to understand that line of thought?
>
> Tony
Don't smash your head Tone, you're thick enough as it is for Gad's
sake!
WH
tw
<itw...@happen.com> wrote in message
news:1113566511.851510a26508ac0108966732eca9a689@teranews...
> >>>>against what Catholics were promised - it was, in Jimmy Carter's
> >>>>phrase, "a limited success." Neither Paul VI nor John Paul II was able
> >>>>to arrest the spread of heresy, defections and disbelief that followed
> >>>>the Second Vatican Council.
> >>>>
> >>>>While the church has maintained her numerical strength in America,
> >>>>this is due only to immigration. As one Chicago priest said, each week
> >>>>babies.
> >>>>
> >>>>What happened to Catholicism is what happened to America. Both passed
> >>>>through a moral, social and cultural revolution that has altered the
> >>>>most basic beliefs of men and women. There has been a "transvaluation
> >>>>of all values." What was considered scandalous or immoral not long ago
> >>>>progressive. It says everything about our age that, were a judicial
> >>>>nominee in America to echo the views of John Paul II on human life,
> >>>>the Democratic Senate would unanimously filibuster his nomination to
> >>>>death and denounce him as an extremist.
> >>
> >>
> >>>And then there's the fact that people are better educated, and question
> >>>what people tell them. Following anyone blindly is no longer a
positive
> >>>trait - the Dark Ages finally bit the dust.
>
> >>>Woods
>
> >> Yeah, and look where it got us.
>
> >Away from the whitewashed graves who were keeping God's children out.
>
> >Woods
>
Definitely. Ricky woudl have done it for you, but you fled to Aruba,
screaming in a high-pitched lady's voice.
Woodswun
You do have a copy or two of the Bible lying about, don't you? Just
what did Jesus have against the Scribes and Pharisees, or didn't you
understand that part? He had a real problem with religious leaders who
harp on the letter of the Law - and that's exactly what education has
delivered us from.
Woods
>
> Tony