YAMN: some notes - please read also mixmaster remops (note 4)

[mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer]

1. YAMN has a problem to create different chains.

Specification:
Chain: iria,*,*; Copies=3

yamn.log:
Info: 2020/09/xx 12:17:24 chain.go:34: Stats updated and reimported
Info: 2020/09/xx 12:17:24 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@300baud.de,ya...@talcserver.com,ya...@remailer.xyz
Info: 2020/09/xx 12:17:24 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@300baud.de,ya...@talcserver.com,ya...@remailer.xyz
Info: 2020/09/xx 12:17:24 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@300baud.de,ya...@talcserver.com,ya...@remailer.xyz


Specification:
Chain: *,*,*; Copies=3

yamn.log:
Info: 2020/09/xx 14:21:33 chain.go:34: Stats updated and reimported
Info: 2020/09/xx 14:21:33 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz
Info: 2020/09/xx 14:21:33 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@talcserver.com,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz
Info: 2020/09/xx 14:21:33 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@talcserver.com,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz


Specification:
Chain: *,*,middleman; Copies=3

yamn.log:
Info: 2020/09/xx 14:25:14 chain.go:34: Stats updated and reimported
Info: 2020/09/xx 14:25:14 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@middleman.remailer.online
Info: 2020/09/xx 14:25:14 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@cloaked.pw,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@middleman.remailer.online
Info: 2020/09/xx 14:25:14 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@middleman.remailer.online


Specification:
Chain: *,*,*; Copies=3

yamn.log:
Info: 2020/09/11 15:31:34 chain.go:34: Stats updated and reimported
Info: 2020/09/11 15:31:34 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@talcserver.com,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net
Info: 2020/09/11 15:31:34 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@cloaked.pw,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net
Info: 2020/09/11 15:31:34 client.go:170: Chain:
ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net

Chains longer than four hopes (Chain: *,*,*,*; Copies=3) are not accepted. The message
disapears.

2. Message-ID

yamn.exe provided by inwtx [YAMN_Remailer_Client_v0.3.28_(build_1030).zip] puts the
Message-ID outside the encrypted message. I do not know if the Message-ID will be deleted
by the next yamn remailer.

Subject: yamn-0.2c
Message-Id: <20200920.193...@nowhere.invalid>
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 12:35:20 +0400
To: ya...@mixmin.net
From: Anonymous Remailer <rema...@domain.invalid>

Using the yamn.exe provides by Stefan it looks different: Why ??

Yamn-Pooled-Date: 20 Sep 2020
To: ya...@mixmin.net
From: m...@nowhere.invalid
Subject: yamn-0.2c

3. Number of rempos

Also it seems, that talc, esn and curve have the same remops (Message-ID: <73O5H.334979$FL7.1...@fx12.ams1>), just like bob and iria (Message-ID: <20200909162...@300baud.de>) as well as yamn3 and yamn4. Only middleman and frell seem to run only one YAMN remailer.

IMHO, such a few different operators cannot guarantee the anonymity of the sender. What a
pity, the concept of YAMN is good. But unfortunately there are only a few different
remops at the present.

4. Search for more YAMN remops

I kindly ask the Mixmaster Remops to run also a YAMN remailer. Sec3 has a good yamn setup
page (https://sec3.net/yamnhelp/) .

Cheers

P.S.: I'm using YAMN.

[mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer]

In article <33bf4db4ae6bcbba...@mail.zip2.in>

mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer <nob...@mail.zip2.in> wrote:

> 3. Number of rempos
>
> Also it seems, that talc, esn and curve have the same remops (Message-ID: <73O5H.334979$FL7.1...@fx12.ams1>), just like bob and iria (Message-ID: <20200909162...@300baud.de>) as well as yamn3 and yamn4. Only middleman and frell seem to run only one YAMN remailer.
>
> IMHO, such a few different operators cannot guarantee the anonymity of the sender. What a
> pity, the concept of YAMN is good. But unfortunately there are only a few different
> remops at the present.
>

YAMN is useless now that it doesn't support Tor.

[Grant Taylor]

On 9/20/20 3:19 PM, mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer wrote:
> YAMN is useless now that it doesn't support Tor.

How / why doesn't YAMN support TOR?

Last I looked -- a year or more ago -- I thought that YAMN interfaced
with a mail server just like Mixmaster. As such I would think that you
could easily run a YAMN remailer via TOR.

Or is the problem client side? -- I don't run remailer clients, so I
don't know that side.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

[Stefan Claas]

Hi Grant,

I do no longer bother with postings coming from this Mixmaster Remailer, when
it comes to YAMN ... ;-)

Best regards
Stefan

[Grant Taylor]

On 9/20/20 3:48 PM, Stefan Claas wrote:
> Hi Grant,

Hi Stefan,

> I do no longer bother with postings coming from this Mixmaster
> Remailer, when it comes to YAMN ... ;-)

As in postings from the mail.zip2.in remailer about YAMN should be ignored?

ACK

Thank you for the heads up Stefan.

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article <20200920234...@300baud.de>

Why not?

[inwtx]

The problem is that yamn.exe doesn't have proxying ability. I think I have a solution
by using socat to get to tor. A new YAMNclient will be out if I cam get to work correctly.

[mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer]

In article <rk8iks$lch$1...@tncsrv09.home.tnetconsulting.net>

Path: not-for-mail
From: "inwtx" <nor...@inwtx.net>
Newsgroups: alt.privacy.anon-server
Subject: New YAMNclient out
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 15:48:29 -0500
Organization: Mixmin
Message-ID: <rk0i2t$8rv$1...@news.mixmin.net>
Injection-Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:48:29 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: news.mixmin.net; posting-
host="1d0b6438ddd89519d28682e20657349987ae4cd0";
logging-data="9087"; mail-complaints-to="ab...@mixmin.net"
X-Received-Bytes: 810
X-Received-Body-CRC: 3404370288

The new YAMNclient is out that doesn't contain
the faulty Tor option. Stefan has loaded it out
on his keybase:

https://keybase.pub/stefan_claas/software/YAMN_Remailer_Client_v0.3.28_
(build_1010).zip

[Nomen Nescio]

Stefan Claas <s...@300baud.de> wrote:
>
> Grant Taylor wrote:
>

> Hi Grant,
>
> I do no longer bother with postings coming from this Mixmaster Remailer, when
> it comes to YAMN ... ;-)
>
> Best regards
> Stefan

I'm just a stupid user and don't know anything about IT, but are the notes about yamn
wrong ? If only a part of the information is true, then I find it very strange for
somebody running yamn remailer (bob and iria) to ignore these comments.

[SEC3]

On 2020-09-20 4:45 p.m., mail.zip2.in Anonymous Remailer wrote:
> 1. YAMN has a problem to create different chains.
>
> Specification:
> Chain: iria,*,*; Copies=3
>
> yamn.log:
> Info: 2020/09/xx 12:17:24 chain.go:34: Stats updated and reimported
> Info: 2020/09/xx 12:17:24 client.go:170: Chain:
> ya...@300baud.de,ya...@talcserver.com,ya...@remailer.xyz
> Info: 2020/09/xx 12:17:24 client.go:170: Chain:
> ya...@300baud.de,ya...@talcserver.com,ya...@remailer.xyz
> Info: 2020/09/xx 12:17:24 client.go:170: Chain:
> ya...@300baud.de,ya...@talcserver.com,ya...@remailer.xyz

This is sometimes going to happen in a network with so few remailers.
(Currently there are only 10 YAMN remailers.) The way I deal with it, as
a remailer client user, is I adjust my minrel setting in yamn.cfg


[Stats]
# Minimum reliability of nodes in randomly selected chains
minrel = 98.0

# Minimum reliability of a random final hop in a chain
relfinal = 99.0

I set minrel to to 96.0. This should allow for more randomness in your
chains.


--
SEC3

Contact information at <https://sec3.net>
I am also on Keybase <https://keybase.io/sec3>
YAMN Help <https://sec3.net/yamnhelp/>

[Stefan Claas]

O.k. ...

1. It should be addressed to Zax, once he returns here if *copy* means copy ...

Users can try the following: Instead of using the copy parameter, simply repeat
the command in a shell n times instead of setting -copies n, if they want different
chains for *copies*.

The YAMN client, from Zax, allows a maximum chain of 10 hops. Maybe it is
a bug in inwtx's YAMNclient if only 3 hops can be used, I do not know.

2. Message-ID the YAMN client, from Zax, produces the output shown when
one uses the binaries from my keybase account.

3. *Why must the OP claim anonymously* that a few remops can't guarantee
the anonymity of senders, if I for example have a mail relay running which
has .onion support, while I additionally keep no email/syslog output logs
from inbound and outbound traffic?

Additionally my mail relay supports Bitmessage, i.e. users with a paid Mailchuck
account can send outfiles from YAMN, with their Bitmessage client, to my mail relay.
And if users like to send YAMN outfiles via my YAMN web bridge, with Tor Browser,
they can do so too! Last but not least I already told Mixmaster users, a while ago,
that they can send YAMN outfiles through Mixmaster Remailers, prior they arrive
at the first YAMN Remailer hop.

EOD

Regards
Stefan

[Stefan Claas]

Stefan Claas wrote:

> 3. *Why must the OP claim anonymously* that a few remops can't guarantee
> the anonymity of senders, if I for example have a mail relay running which
> has .onion support, while I additionally keep no email/syslog output logs
> from inbound and outbound traffic?
>
> Additionally my mail relay supports Bitmessage, i.e. users with a paid Mailchuck
> account can send outfiles from YAMN, with their Bitmessage client, to my mail relay.
> And if users like to send YAMN outfiles via my YAMN web bridge, with Tor Browser,
> they can do so too! Last but not least I already told Mixmaster users, a while ago,
> that they can send YAMN outfiles through Mixmaster Remailers, prior they arrive
> at the first YAMN Remailer hop.

Not to mentioned that I have also provided a working Tor set-up for YAMN users,
available at my keybase account.

Regards
Stefan

[Stefan Claas]

Stefan Claas wrote:

> Additionally my mail relay supports Bitmessage, i.e. users with a paid Mailchuck
> account can send outfiles from YAMN, with their Bitmessage client, to my mail relay.

Correction, to iria.

Regards
Stefan

[UST]

Link please - no find

[Stefan Claas]

<https://keybase.pub/stefan_claas/software/YAMN%20client%20config%20for%20Tor%20-%20Linux%20macOS%20Termux/>

P.S. if you are a Windows users, be patient and wait for a setup from inwtx, in case
you don't use plain vanilla yamn.exe and have not tor.exe, socat.exe and curl.exe handy.

Regards and good night,
Stefan

[Anonymous]

Stefan Claas <s...@300baud.de> wrote:

>Nomen Nescio wrote:
>
>> Stefan Claas <s...@300baud.de> wrote:
>> >
>> > Grant Taylor wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Grant,
>> >
>> > I do no longer bother with postings coming from this Mixmaster Remailer, when
>> > it comes to YAMN ... ;-)
>> >
>> > Best regards
>> > Stefan
>>
>> I'm just a stupid user and don't know anything about IT, but are the notes about yamn
>> wrong ? If only a part of the information is true, then I find it very strange for
>> somebody running yamn remailer (bob and iria) to ignore these comments.
>>
>
>O.k. ...
>
>1. It should be addressed to Zax, once he returns here if *copy* means copy ...
>
>Users can try the following: Instead of using the copy parameter, simply repeat
>the command in a shell n times instead of setting -copies n, if they want different
>chains for *copies*.

Very smart, as long as the user intends to get multiple copies of his message
sent to the recipient or posted in the respective newsgroup.

>
>The YAMN client, from Zax, allows a maximum chain of 10 hops. Maybe it is
>a bug in inwtx's YAMNclient if only 3 hops can be used, I do not know.
>
>2. Message-ID the YAMN client, from Zax, produces the output shown when
>one uses the binaries from my keybase account.
>
>3. *Why must the OP claim anonymously* that a few remops can't guarantee
>the anonymity of senders,

Just because it's true, no matter whether the OP reveals that fact anonymously
or exposing his identity.

> if I for example have a mail relay running which
>has .onion support, while I additionally keep no email/syslog output logs
>from inbound and outbound traffic?
>
>Additionally my mail relay supports Bitmessage, i.e. users with a paid Mailchuck
>account can send outfiles from YAMN, with their Bitmessage client, to my mail relay.
>And if users like to send YAMN outfiles via my YAMN web bridge, with Tor Browser,
>they can do so too! Last but not least I already told Mixmaster users, a while ago,
>that they can send YAMN outfiles through Mixmaster Remailers, prior they arrive
>at the first YAMN Remailer hop.

So the security of the YAMN network depends on further more or less secure
measures? Nice!

>
>EOD

???

To sum it all up, stay away from that crap.

[anon]

>
> To sum it all up, stay away from that crap.

The only real way to know if mixmaster and yamn is secure is to note that
no one has ever been caught in a crime while using both for communication.
This has not happened.

[Anonymous Remailer]

In article <20200922011...@300baud.de> Stefan wrote:
>
> 3. *Why must the OP claim anonymously* that a few remops can't
guarantee
> the anonymity of senders, if I for example have a mail relay
running which
> has .onion support, while I additionally keep no email/syslog
output logs
> from inbound and outbound traffic?

pls. inform the address of the mail relay which has .onion support

> And if users like to send YAMN outfiles via my YAMN web bridge,
with Tor Browser,
> they can do so too!



> Last but not least I already told Mixmaster users, a while ago,
> that they can send YAMN outfiles through Mixmaster Remailers,
prior they arrive
> at the first YAMN Remailer hop.

thanks for this information

[Nomen Nescio]

"anon" <an...@anonymous.com> wrote:

> >
> > To sum it all up, stay away from that crap.
>
> The only real way to know if mixmaster and yamn is secure is to note that
> no one has ever been caught in a crime while using both for communication.

Has anyone ever used YAMN for some criminal task? ...

> This has not happened.

[Stefan Claas]

Anonymous wrote:

[...]

> To sum it all up, stay away from that crap.

Nice try! IIA, PsyOPs from some YAMN haters do not work among long time a.p.a-s community members. ;-)

Regards
Stefan

[Stefan Claas]

Sure it happened, years ago with a Mixmaster user.

Regards
Stefan

[Stefan Claas]

Anonymous Remailer wrote:

> In article <20200922011...@300baud.de> Stefan wrote:
> >
> > 3. *Why must the OP claim anonymously* that a few remops can't
> guarantee
> > the anonymity of senders, if I for example have a mail relay
> running which
> > has .onion support, while I additionally keep no email/syslog
> output logs
> > from inbound and outbound traffic?
>
> pls. inform the address of the mail relay which has .onion support

gimgrs7rltp4bhz3hrse2qnfmhpcckfnnpwjhjsqgdgrm5tqqrm3xvyd.onion:2525

>
> > And if users like to send YAMN outfiles via my YAMN web bridge,
> with Tor Browser,
> > they can do so too!
>
>
>
> > Last but not least I already told Mixmaster users, a while ago,
> > that they can send YAMN outfiles through Mixmaster Remailers,
> prior they arrive
> > at the first YAMN Remailer hop.
>
> thanks for this information

You're welcome.

Regards
Stefan

[freef...@club-internet.fr]

>
> Anonymous wrote:
>
> ...
>
>
>> To sum it all up, stay away from that crap.
>
> Nice try! IIA, PsyOPs from some YAMN haters do not work among long time a.p.a-s community members.
>

Lambasting anything concerning security is the bent of intels.
If not outright banning, at least plant doubts.

[anon]

>
> Anonymous Remailer wrote:
>
>
>> In article <20200922011...@300baud.de> Stefan wrote:
>>>
>>> 3. *Why must the OP claim anonymously* that a few remops can't guarantee
>>> the anonymity of senders, if I for example have a mail relay running which
>>> has .onion support, while I additionally keep no email/syslog output logs
>>> from inbound and outbound traffic?
>>
>> pls. inform the address of the mail relay which has .onion support
>
> gimgrs7rltp4bhz3hrse2qnfmhpcckfnnpwjhjsqgdgrm5tqqrm3xvyd.onion:2525
>

Is that a good onion? I have never seen one that long.

[Stefan Claas]

This one is a new v3 address, because the old (short ones) will be phased out
soon, as understood.

Regards
Stefan


--

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article <20200922161...@300baud.de>

Marty supposedly got caught screwing with some fat broad. But
Marty was not so bright anyway. He left tracks.

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article <rkdbal$kcc$1...@news.mixmin.net>
"freef...@club-internet.fr" <freef...@club-internet.fr>
wrote:

Ignoring the possibility is folly.

[Nomen Nescio]

In article <20200922194...@300baud.de>

Stefan Claas <s...@300baud.de> wrote:
>
> > >> pls. inform the address of the mail relay which has .onion support
> > >
> > > gimgrs7rltp4bhz3hrse2qnfmhpcckfnnpwjhjsqgdgrm5tqqrm3xvyd.onion:2525
> > >
> > Is that a good onion? I have never seen one that long.
> >
>
> This one is a new v3 address, because the old (short ones) will be phased out
> soon, as understood.
>

Only for Yamn messages ? Or do you also accept Mixmaster messages ?

[Stefan Claas]

Sorry, only YAMN messages.

Regards
Stefan

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article <rkcncf$1b1t$1...@adenine.netfront.net>

Yet. Thanks to Tor.

[Democrat]

In article <89a1d47a461589d8...@dizum.com>

I use it to vote from the cemetary addresses.

>
> > This has not happened.

[Nomen Nescio]

True.

However:

The entry node can see the sender's IP, if not using Tor.

But the entry node cannot see the contents of the message as it's
encrypted to his key, and he cannot see the destination of the
message. And of course if the sender is using Tor nothing useful
can be obtained.

Right?

I'm referring to Mixmaster.

[inwtx]

>
> 1. YAMN has a problem to create different chains.
>

<snip>
Yes, the yamn.exe isn't doing a very good job in mixing remailers. I just tested
a chain of 5, copies 3, and they were all the same.

<Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
<Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
<Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
Message sent!

>
> Chains longer than four hopes (Chain: *,*,*,*; Copies=3) are not accepted. The message
> disapears.
>
Here are 7 chains, but remailers appear not to be mixed.
<Info: 2020/09/22 18:37:56 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de>
<Info: 2020/09/22 18:37:56 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de>
<Info: 2020/09/22 18:37:56 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de>
Message sent!

> 2. Message-ID
>
> yamn.exe provided by inwtx YAMN_Remailer_Client_v0.3.28_(build_1030).zip puts the
> Message-ID outside the encrypted message. I do not know if the Message-ID will be deleted
> by the next yamn remailer.

I think that you have to provide a Message-ID when sending a message.
>
> Subject: Re: yamn-0.2c
> Message-Id: <20200920.193...@nowhere.invalid>
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2020 12:35:20 +0400
> To: ya...@mixmin.net
> From: Anonymous Remailer <rema...@domain.invalid>
>
> Using the yamn.exe provides by Stefan it looks different: Why ??
>
> Yamn-Pooled-Date: 20 Sep 2020
> To: ya...@mixmin.net
> From: m...@nowhere.invalid
> Subject: Re: yamn-0.2c
>
> 3. Number of rempos
>
> Also it seems, that talc, esn and curve have the same remops (References: <73O5H.334979$FL7.1...@fx12.ams1>), just like bob and iria (References: <20200909162...@300baud.de>) as well as yamn3 and yamn4. Only middleman and frell seem to run only one YAMN remailer.
>
Yes, they are bring run by the same sysop.

> IMHO, such a few different operators cannot guarantee the anonymity of the sender. What a
> pity, the concept of YAMN is good. But unfortunately there are only a few different
> remops at the present.
>
> 4. Search for more YAMN remops
>
> I kindly ask the Mixmaster Remops to run also a YAMN remailer. Sec3 has a good yamn setup
> page (https://sec3.net/yamnhelp/) .
>

[SEC3]

On 2020-09-22 7:45 p.m., inwtx wrote:
>>
>> 1. YAMN has a problem to create different chains.
>>
> <snip>
> Yes, the yamn.exe isn't doing a very good job in mixing remailers. I just tested
> a chain of 5, copies 3, and they were all the same.
>
> <Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
> <Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
> <Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
> Message sent!

You're right. This is concerning. But I get why it's happening.

The below settings are hardcoded into yamn's code.

Minrel = 98.0
Relfinal = 99.0
Minlat = 2
Maxlat = 60

If you do not change them, in yamn.cfg, to something more
inclusive then yamn will not have many choices for generating random
chains.

for example, lately there are only a small number of remailers with a
maximum latency of 60.

I'm realizing it was a mistake on my part to increase pool size of
curve, esn and talc to 25. Since I made that change - and middleman
also followed suit - yamn stats have started looking pretty grim.

I'm going to revert back to a pool size of 5. Hopefully things will
return to normal in a few days.

[SEC3]

On 2020-09-22 8:32 p.m., SEC3 wrote:
> On 2020-09-22 7:45 p.m., inwtx wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. YAMN has a problem to create different chains.
>>>
>> <snip>
>> Yes, the yamn.exe isn't doing a very good job in mixing remailers. I just tested
>> a chain of 5, copies 3, and they were all the same.
>>
>> <Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
>> <Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
>> <Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>

Also relevant to this issue. From Yamn's man page:

"-c, --copies=\num"
When operating in client mode, define how many copies of each message
should be sent. Multiple copies share the same exit-remailer which
retains a list of processed Packet-IDs, ensuring that only a single copy
is delivered. This setting overrides the default config


"-l, --chain=\rem1,rem2,rem3,..."
Use the defined chain to route the message through the Yamn network.
Random nodes can be selected with asterisks. E.g. --chain="*,*,*".
If multiple copies are specified, all copies must share a common exit
remailer.

[sam]

>
> On 2020-09-22 8:32 p.m., SEC3 wrote:
>
>> On 2020-09-22 7:45 p.m., inwtx wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 1. YAMN has a problem to create different chains.
>>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> Yes, the yamn.exe isn't doing a very good job in mixing remailers. I just tested
>>> a chain of 5, copies 3, and they were all the same.
>>>
>>> <Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
>>> <Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
>>> <Info: 2020/09/22 18:24:32 client.go:170: Chain: ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@remailer.xyz,ya...@300baud.de,ya...@mixmin.net,ya...@mixmin.net>
>
> Also relevant to this issue. From Yamn's man page:
>

> "-c, --copies=/num"

> When operating in client mode, define how many copies of each message
> should be sent. Multiple copies share the same exit-remailer which
> retains a list of processed Packet-IDs, ensuring that only a single copy
> is delivered. This setting overrides the default config
>
>

> "-l, --chain=/rem1,rem2,rem3,..."

> Use the defined chain to route the message through the Yamn network.
> Random nodes can be selected with asterisks. E.g. --chain="*,*,*".
> If multiple copies are specified, all copies must share a common exit
> remailer.
>
>

The quotes around the chain asterisks is unusual. --chain="*,*,*"

[SEC3]

Those quotes can be ignored. This was copy/pasted from Yamn's source code.

The important part is "if multiple copies are specified, all copies must

share a common exit remailer."

The way I interpret that is: When sending multiple copies

*,*,iria is recommended

*,*,* is not recommended and can have unexpected results




--

[cern]

I don't think that is a correct interpretation. Mixmaster never
required formatting like that. I think what he is saying is that
"all copies *will* share a common exit remailer". Using only *,*,*
should always pick the last position to be an exit.

[SEC3]

On 2020-09-23 9:48 a.m., cern wrote:

>> The way I interpret that is: When sending multiple copies
>>
>> *,*,iria is recommended
>>
>> *,*,* is not recommended and can have unexpected results
>>
> I don't think that is a correct interpretation.

You may be right.

> Mixmaster never
> required formatting like that.

No it didn't. But neither does Mixmaster's man page entry contain the
advice about "all copies must share a common exit remailer"

> I think what he is saying is that "all copies *will* share a
> common exit remailer". Using only *,*,* should always pick
> the last position to be an exit.

--
SEC3

[Nomen Nescio]

On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 10:25:06 -0400, in article
<7VIaH.415825$jbb....@fx44.ams1> SEC3 <nor...@sec3.net> wrote:

>On 2020-09-23 9:48 a.m., cern wrote:

>>SEC3 wrote:
>
>>> The way I interpret that is: When sending multiple copies
>>>
>>> *,*,iria is recommended
>>>
>>> *,*,* is not recommended and can have unexpected results

???

>>>
>> I don't think that is a correct interpretation.
>
>You may be right.
>
>> Mixmaster never
>> required formatting like that.
>
>No it didn't. But neither does Mixmaster's man page entry contain the
>advice about "all copies must share a common exit remailer"
>
>> I think what he is saying is that "all copies *will* share a
>> common exit remailer". Using only *,*,* should always pick
>> the last position to be an exit.

I more and more get the impression that the self-professed wizard of
remailing has no idea about how all that works.

There's absolutely no need to give such an advice. Either the user
specifies a single exit remailer, or, with an asterisk at the end of the
chain, Mixmaster itself selects randomly a single exit for all chains it
calculates. Not the slightest chance to get multiple exits with one message.

[SEC3]

On 2020-09-23 12:25 p.m., Nomen Nescio wrote:

> I more and more get the impression that the self-professed wizard of
> remailing has no idea about how all that works.
>
> There's absolutely no need to give such an advice. Either the user
> specifies a single exit remailer, or, with an asterisk at the end of the
> chain, Mixmaster itself selects randomly a single exit for all chains it
> calculates. Not the slightest chance to get multiple exits with one message.
>

Try to keep up. We are not discussing Mixmaster. We are discussing the
lack of randomness in YAMN chains.

Mixmaster and Yamn are different programs.

And nobody is this thread is claiming to be a wizard. We are simply
troubleshooting - for the benefit of all Yamn users.

[anon]

Would every remailer sysop sending out more dummy messages help cure
this? Non sysops could even help. I remember that Stefan has a script
that was for just sent out dummy messages.

[Stefan Claas]

My suggestion would be that we all wait until Zax returns here.

The script you mention, does not send dummy messages, it sends real
traffic, but I only would give it to (for me) well known remops and
not users.

Regards
Stefan

[Anonymous]

SEC3 <nor...@sec3.net> wrote:

vvvvvvvvvv Reinserted vvvvvvvvvv

>>On Wed, 23 Sep 2020 10:25:06 -0400, in article
>><7VIaH.415825$jbb....@fx44.ams1> SEC3 <nor...@sec3.net> wrote:

^^^^ ^^^^^

>>
>>>On 2020-09-23 9:48 a.m., cern wrote:
>>>>SEC3 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The way I interpret that is: When sending multiple copies
>>>>>
>>>>> *,*,iria is recommended
>>>>>
>>>>> *,*,* is not recommended and can have unexpected results
>>
>>???
>>
>>>>>
>>>> I don't think that is a correct interpretation.
>>>
>>>You may be right.
>>>
>>>> Mixmaster never
>>>> required formatting like that.
>>>
>>>No it didn't. But neither does Mixmaster's man page entry contain the

^^^^^^^^^

>>>advice about "all copies must share a common exit remailer"
>>>
>>>> I think what he is saying is that "all copies *will* share a
>>>> common exit remailer". Using only *,*,* should always pick
>>>> the last position to be an exit.

^^^^^^^^^^ Reinserted ^^^^^^^^^^

>On 2020-09-23 12:25 p.m., Nomen Nescio wrote:
>
>> I more and more get the impression that the self-professed wizard of
>> remailing has no idea about how all that works.
>>
>> There's absolutely no need to give such an advice. Either the user
>> specifies a single exit remailer, or, with an asterisk at the end of the
>> chain, Mixmaster itself selects randomly a single exit for all chains it
>> calculates. Not the slightest chance to get multiple exits with one message.
>>
>
>Try to keep up. We are not discussing Mixmaster. We are discussing the
>lack of randomness in YAMN chains.

Not discussing Mixmaster?
Above I restored the text passage you wilfully and knowingly removed.
So you're not only ignorant. You're also a forger and liar!
That's disgusting.

[SEC3]

That's me. Mr. Disgusting.

I was only snipping for brevity, you childish twit. But how was I
supposed to know that "Cern" and Nomen Nescio were both you?
Maybe stop with the sock puppets. It will make everyone's life easier.

This is where you killfile me. Please, do it and save us both the
aggravation.

--
SEC3

Contact information at <https://sec3.net>

YAMN Help <https://sec3.net/yamnhelp/>

[Nomen Nescio]

In article <pkLaH.380872$Qs6.2...@fx16.ams1> SEC3 <nor...@sec3.net> wrote:
> On 2020-09-23 12:25 p.m., Nomen Nescio wrote:
>
> > I more and more get the impression that the self-professed wizard of
> > remailing has no idea about how all that works.
> >
> > There's absolutely no need to give such an advice. Either the user
> > specifies a single exit remailer, or, with an asterisk at the end of the
> > chain, Mixmaster itself selects randomly a single exit for all chains it
> > calculates. Not the slightest chance to get multiple exits with one message.
> >
>
> Try to keep up. We are not discussing Mixmaster. We are discussing the
> lack of randomness in YAMN chains.
>
> Mixmaster and Yamn are different programs.

You mean Mixmaster and Yamn follow different exit remailer strategies?

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article <c15335eb440225a9...@dizum.com>

There are only so many Yamn remailers. Random is a figure of
speach.

[Anonymous Remailer (austria)]

In article
<b8303108d4dbc57a...@remailer.paranoici.org>

Don't get your depends in a bunch.