A gutless, draft-dodging coward named Dick "Chickenhawk" Cheney == the war-profiteering American TREASON Party controlled by the Bush Crime Family
robin hood zorrro
alike, who avoided military service.
And the biggest warmonger of them all, George W. Bush, needed daddy's
connections to ride out the war at home in the safety of the Texas Air
National Guard and couldn't even complete that service.
But Cheney's hypocrisy goes even further because his tirade on Monday
was aimed primarily at Congressman John Murtha, the Pennsylvania
Democrat who did serve his country, spending 37 years in the Marines
before retiring as a colonel from the reserves and earning a Bronze
Star and two Purple Hearts in Vietnam.
Murtha, one of the most hawkish Democrats in Congress, has -- like so
many other Americans -- realized he was had by the many deceptions of
the Bush administration leading up to the invasion of Iraq and has
called for immediate withdrawal of our troops from the debacle that has
cost more than 2,000 Americans, and countless Iraqi civilians, their
lives.
Murtha calls the Iraq war "a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The
future of our country is at risk. We can not continue on the present
course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in
the best interest of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or
the Persian Gulf Region."
Strong words from someone who voted to give Bush the authority to
invade Iraq but words that come from someone who understands war a hell
of a lot better than the cowards in the White House:
Strong words from someone who has been there and faced death for his
country -- something that a draft dodger like Dick Cheney can never,
ever understand.
It's bad enough when Bush uses Veterans Day, a holiday where we are
supposed to honor those who serve our country, to spread his Iraq
invasion propaganda and criticize those who dare question his failed
policies.
As Americans we have the freedom to agree or disagree with war but it
is our duty to serve her when she calls.
Draft dodgers are the worst kind of traitors to our country.
They avoided the call and are nothing but despicable.
Dick Cheney is a coward and a liar who represents an administration run
by crooks and frauds.
When I see someone like that criticizing someone who served their
country in war, someone twice wounded on the field of battle, I
consider the source.
And, in this case, the source is nothing more than white, lying,
draft-dodging trash.
To use one of your own favorite phrases, Mr. Vice President, we suggest
you just "fuck off."
http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7679.shtml
A gutless, draft-dodging coward named Dick Cheney
By DOUG THOMPSON
Nov 22, 2005
The last thing we need in the increasingly bitter Iraq debate is a
gutless, draft-dodging coward like Dick Cheney criticizing those who
did serve their country.
The Vice President, who used multiple deferments to avoid serving his
country during the Vietnam conflict, jumped into the fray big time last
week and again on Monday with an acrid broadside against those who
properly question the President's motives for dragging the country
into the bloody dead-end called Iraq.
"This is revisionism of the most corrupt and shameless variety," Cheney
said yesterday.
"It has no place anywhere in American politics."
Sorry Dickie boy, but it is you and your cronies at 1600 Pennsylvania
Avenue who have "no place anywhere in American politics."
It is hypocrites like you, you shameless, cowardly son-of-a-bitch, who
should be led from the White House in chains and locked away in some
hellhole to rot for eternity.
American politics is cursed with chicken hawk politicians who do
everything in their power to avoid serving their country and then vote
to send other Americans to fight and die for their questionable wars.
________________________________________________________
Time for another visit to the Chickenhawk Database;
http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=list&category=%20NEWS%3B%20Chickenhawks
Harry
(see all of Harry Hope's excellent posts as they break, put this link
in your browser, use it, this is a search on google groups, on the
author Harry Hope sorted by date... nothing fancy):
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=&start=0&scoring=d&enc_author=-nIhFBQAAACtBOUGAhN9cSve8yYdFJBuOPANdqfI6prRsqjc7uCt1A&
American Flag
country called Kosovo?
--
"Mine will be the most ethical administration in the history of the
republic!"
President-Elect Bill Clinton, November 1992.
"robin hood zorrro" <robinho...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132686259.0...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
robbin hood zoro
American Flag
"robbin hood zoro" <robbinh...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1132686748.3...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
ouroboros rex
"American Flag" <F-dem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:laKgf.15293$s92....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> Yeah, because he was a gutless lying chicken hawk.
Cite?
Chris Morton
That's what you said when leapt to the defense of Holocaust denier Judy Diarya.
Then you got LOTS of cites.
--
--
Gun control, the theory that 110lb. women should have to fistfight with 210lb.
rapists.
Server 13
> In article <dlvtsb$4bb$1...@news.ks.uiuc.edu>, ouroboros rex says...
>
>>
>>"American Flag" <F-dem...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>news:laKgf.15293$s92....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>
>>>Yeah, because he was a gutless lying chicken hawk.
>>
>>Cite?
>
>
> That's what you said when leapt to the defense of Holocaust denier Judy Diarya.
rofl Hey, aren't you that pathetic little piece of shit who called me a
Holocaust denier? You ever come up with an example of that, ridiculous little
speckboy?
Server 13
Still waiting, tiny tot!
Joseph Welch
> Why did coward Clinton launch America's military might on a defenseless
> country called Kosovo?
Read your history and find out.
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
meje...@hotmail.com
Vietnam War, but then goes on to invade Haiti, bomb Iraq, and send
Rangers to die unarmed in Somalia. I guess he is only against war when
there is a danger that HE might have to go.
That is the very definition of a chickenhawk.
Michael
_ G O D _
_ G O D _
Robin Hood Zoro
<robbinh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Robin Hood Zoro
<robinho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Jim Alder
news:UyPgf.3168$fe....@fe02.buzzardnews.com:
> "American Flag" <F-dem...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:pZJgf.15225$s92....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>
>> Why did coward Clinton launch America's military might on
>> a defenseless country called Kosovo?
>
> Read your history and find out.
Because you don't know either?
--
From: FR...@SkepticTank.ORG (Fredric L. Rice)
Subject: Pray for DeLay "suicide" 9/28/05
"Wouldn't it KICK ASS! if he were found face down
in his corn flakes in the morning, a victim of
another bizarre Republican "suicide?"
"Sweet baby Jesus, I'd throw a fucking party in
the nearest park and put up signs giving thanks
to Jesus."
Morton Davis
"Jim Alder" <jima...@ssnet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9717C455889AF...@216.196.97.142...
> "Joseph Welch" <seattled...@freewebspace.com> wrote in
> news:UyPgf.3168$fe....@fe02.buzzardnews.com:
>
> > "American Flag" <F-dem...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:pZJgf.15225$s92....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> >
> >> Why did coward Clinton launch America's military might on
> >> a defenseless country called Kosovo?
> >
> > Read your history and find out.
>
> Because you don't know either?
>
>
choice.
Jim Alder
The same shit, different day. The same hatemongering,
America-hating bile he and his fellow Fonda-esque traitors troll
through these newsgroups hourly and daily.
The hypocrisy knows no bounds. While they rant and rave that
no one should go to war for the US in Iraq, they rant and rave
that anyone who took the same advice in the Vietnam era has no
right to an opinion about this war.
Jim Alder
news:PO7hf.596035$xm3.218021@attbi_s21:
If he knew history at all, he probably wouldn't be a leftwing
hatemongering troll.
Drew
> "Morton Davis" <anti...@go.com> wrote in
> news:PO7hf.596035$xm3.218021@attbi_s21:
>
>
>>"Jim Alder" <jima...@ssnet.com> wrote in message
>>news:Xns9717C455889AF...@216.196.97.142...
>>
>>>"Joseph Welch" <seattled...@freewebspace.com> wrote in
>>>news:UyPgf.3168$fe....@fe02.buzzardnews.com:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"American Flag" <F-dem...@aol.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:pZJgf.15225$s92....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Why did coward Clinton launch America's military might
>>>>> on a defenseless country called Kosovo?
>>>>
>>>>Read your history and find out.
>>>
>>> Because you don't know either?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>If he knew history at all, he'd know Dick Cheney never was
>>a prime draft choice.
>
>
> If he knew history at all, he probably wouldn't be a leftwing
> hatemongering troll.
>
you two through sucking each others dick?
Jim Alder
news:RGdhf.15$Dc4....@newshog.newsread.com:
> Jim Alder wrote:
>
>> "Morton Davis" <anti...@go.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Jim Alder" <jima...@ssnet.com> wrote...
>>>
>>>>"Joseph Welch" <seattled...@freewebspace.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"American Flag" <F-dem...@aol.com> wrote...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why did coward Clinton launch America's military might
>>>>>> on a defenseless country called Kosovo?
>>>>>
>>>>>Read your history and find out.
>>>>
>>>> Because you don't know either?
>>>>
>>> If he knew history at all, he'd know Dick Cheney never was
>>> a prime draft choice.
>>
>> If he knew history at all, he probably wouldn't be a
>> leftwing hatemongering troll.
>>
> you two through sucking each others dick?
Why, did you want your turn? Or are you just here to defend
leftwing hatemongering trolls, you foul mouthed little cunt?
t1gercat
Uh... Well, you're a rightie and arguing with Righties is a bit like
beating up a retarded kid. There's no satisfaction in it.
Anyway, unenlightened one, Clinton didn't send Rangers to die in
Somalia. George HW Bush did that. Clinton inherited that mess and made
the fatal mistake of relying on the advice of Colin Powell, who was,
and is, nothing more than a bureaucrat-politician and professional ass
kisser. The commander on the ground took risks when he couldn't get the
armor he requested (because Powell refused to endorse his request), and
got his troops slaughtered by not planning their exit. I'll bet you
$1,000 that commander votes Republican. You can blame that on Clinton
because he was C-In-C, but it's a bit like blaming Bill Run on Lincoln.
Presidents put their trust in their professional military men. The
military leadership -- going all the way to the top, Republican Colin
Powell -- screwed up Somalia.
You'll note that Clinton learned his lesson from that mess. The
incursion in Haiti, which was totally bloodless, was necessary to
stabilize the island and return the president to power. It was
successful in that the limited mission was accomplishied, Aristide went
back to the presidential mansion and Haiti staggered onward.
The incursions into Bosnia, Kosovo and other Balkans areas were, again,
a legacy of Geroge HW Bush, and they worked out well. The slaughter
and rape stopped, people were returned to their homes and a peace has
been established. Kosovo, if you'll remember, was being overrun, it's
Albanian ethnics were being murdered, and it was in state of chaos. It
wasn't a bloodless incusion, because a few dozen innocent people did
die. But it ended the slaughter or displacement of tens of thousands.
Whatever his faults, Clinton never took on the military pretensions of
the Chickenhawks in the current administration. He acted with restraint
(you rightards complain about that, too), didn't engage in the sort of
vainglorius adventures Regan liked, and kept our military safe and
well-equipped.
Now, tell us, where are those Iraqi WMDs?
Wexford
James H. Hood
t1gercat <wexfo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1132819387.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Anyway, unenlightened one, Clinton didn't send Rangers to die in
> Somalia. George HW Bush did that.
Wrong.....TF Ranger deployed to Somalia in August 1993.
> The commander on the ground took risks when he couldn't get the
> armor he requested (because Powell refused to endorse his request), and
> got his troops slaughtered by not planning their exit.
Wrong again.....the egress from the hotel was already built into the OPLAN.
> You'll note that Clinton learned his lesson from that mess. The
> incursion in Haiti, which was totally bloodless
And was turned away the first time by a mob carrying nothing more than
rocks.....so much for klinton's resolve on that one.
> The incursions into Bosnia, Kosovo and other Balkans areas were, again,
> a legacy of Geroge HW Bush, and they worked out well.
A neat trick....explain how he ordered that five years after leaving office.
> He acted with restraint
You'd call trying to politically-correct the services "restraint".
> didn't engage in the sort of
> vainglorius adventures Regan liked
Said "vainglories" brought down the Soviets, something far beyond klinton's
capacity.
t1gercat
James H. Hood wrote:
> t1gercat <wexfo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1132819387.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Anyway, unenlightened one, Clinton didn't send Rangers to die in
> > Somalia. George HW Bush did that.
>
> Wrong.....TF Ranger deployed to Somalia in August 1993.
Wrong... I said that Bush began the incursion. He did; it was Geroge's
idea. George sent in the Marines. Clinton inherited it.
>
> > The commander on the ground took risks when he couldn't get the
> > armor he requested (because Powell refused to endorse his request), and
> > got his troops slaughtered by not planning their exit.
>
> Wrong again.....the egress from the hotel was already built into the OPLAN.
The egress plan was piss poor. That was my point, idiot. The Commander
on the ground screwed it up.
>
> > You'll note that Clinton learned his lesson from that mess. The
> > incursion in Haiti, which was totally bloodless
>
> And was turned away the first time by a mob carrying nothing more than
> rocks.....so much for klinton's resolve on that one.
Lie. Our troops were in place there for an extended period of time. We
pacified the island as much as possible, considering the massive
resistance and hysterical posturing the Pugs were mounting in Congress.
>
> > The incursions into Bosnia, Kosovo and other Balkans areas were, again,
> > a legacy of Geroge HW Bush, and they worked out well.
>
> A neat trick....explain how he ordered that five years after leaving office.
It was part of George HW's New World Order. The United States would
take an active leadership role in Europe, including the deployment of
troops when needed. Clinton really had little choice, as would any
president who served. We were requested to assist in the pacification
of the region. We did, and we pacified it with almost no loss of life
to Americans.
>
> > He acted with restraint
>
> You'd call trying to politically-correct the services "restraint".
No, I'd call dealing with a potentially explosive situation in Southern
Europe effectively and with little loss of of life, "restraint."
>
> > didn't engage in the sort of
> > vainglorius adventures Regan liked
>
> Said "vainglories" brought down the Soviets, something far beyond klinton's
> capacity.
Don't make me laugh. Reagan "brought down the Soviets" is the ultimate
rightard lie. The Soviets brought down themselves through almost 70
years of gross mismanagement and corruption. Reagan was an old B movie
actor who never had a clue. All during the Reagan administration the
CIA and the DoD were constantly pumping out propaganda about the size,
strength and aggresiveness of the Soviets. I know. I worked for the DoD
at the time and I was immersed in their crapola. The Soviets had
everything -- 40,000 tanks, the hughest fleet of huge nuclear
submarines in the world, more missiles with more warheads than existed
anywhere on earth, a superb standing army that was in prime shape and
extremely well equipped, bombers and fighters that could obliterate any
air force in the world, and a Navy that was growing so rapidly, it
would soon be able to outfight us. This was the scenario the
Reaganistas painted so that they could extort Congress into pouring
countless billions into utterly useless and wasteful defense projects
-- a 300 ship Navy, Star Wars, the B1 and B2 bombers, the Sergeant York
Gun, VTOL aircraft, an expanded army, et cetera. Up to the very moment
when the Berlin Wall fell they were still crying about the alleged
"might" of the crumbling Soviet empire.
For decades, Liberals had been pointing out that the Soviets couldn't
even transport their harvests to market, let alone mount any kind of
massive military operation, that their 40,000 tanks were mostly empty
shells, that their vaunted military might was a Potemkin village eith
which they had tricked unto wasting hundreds of billions on useless
military projects. When the Liberals said all this, they were condemned
by the Right as soft-headed dreamers, or, more recently as "traitors."
The fall of the Berlin Wall caught the Right completely by surprise.
The stood there with their thumbs up their asses still crying that the
Russians were a threat. Their final ploy was to inundate the world with
the lie that Reagan had brought down the Soviets somehow by spending
them to death. Of course, every idiot on the Right gobbled up that lie
and repeated it ad nauseum to any fool who would listen. The only thing
-- THE ONLY THING -- that brought down the Soviets was their own
incompetence. If Regan did anything, he bolstered them for a while by
continuously repeating the lie that the Soviets were powerful and
potent. Without Chickenhaw-in-Chief Reagan, that wall might have come
down 5 years earlier.
Wexford
t1gercat
James H. Hood wrote:
> t1gercat <wexfo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1132819387.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> > Anyway, unenlightened one, Clinton didn't send Rangers to die in
> > Somalia. George HW Bush did that.
>
> Wrong.....TF Ranger deployed to Somalia in August 1993.
Wrong... I said that Bush began the incursion. He did; it was Geroge's
idea. George sent in the Marines. Clinton inherited it.
>
> > The commander on the ground took risks when he couldn't get the
> > armor he requested (because Powell refused to endorse his request), and
> > got his troops slaughtered by not planning their exit.
>
> Wrong again.....the egress from the hotel was already built into the OPLAN.
The egress plan was piss poor. That was my point, idiot. The Commander
on the ground screwed it up.
>
> > You'll note that Clinton learned his lesson from that mess. The
> > incursion in Haiti, which was totally bloodless
>
> And was turned away the first time by a mob carrying nothing more than
> rocks.....so much for klinton's resolve on that one.
Lie. Our troops were in place there for an extended period of time. We
pacified the island as much as possible, considering the massive
resistance and hysterical posturing the Pugs were mounting in Congress.
>
> > The incursions into Bosnia, Kosovo and other Balkans areas were, again,
> > a legacy of Geroge HW Bush, and they worked out well.
>
> A neat trick....explain how he ordered that five years after leaving office.
It was part of George HW's New World Order. The United States would
take an active leadership role in Europe, including the deployment of
troops when needed. Clinton really had little choice, as would any
president who served. We were requested to assist in the pacification
of the region. We did, and we pacified it with almost no loss of life
to Americans.
>
> > He acted with restraint
>
> You'd call trying to politically-correct the services "restraint".
No, I'd call dealing with a potentially explosive situation in Southern
Europe effectively and with little loss of of life, "restraint."
>
> > didn't engage in the sort of
> > vainglorius adventures Regan liked
>
> Said "vainglories" brought down the Soviets, something far beyond klinton's
> capacity.
Don't make me laugh. Reagan "brought down the Soviets" is the ultimate
t1gercat
Jim Alder wrote:
> "robin hood zorrro" <robinho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> The same shit, different day. The same hatemongering,
> America-hating bile he and his fellow Fonda-esque traitors troll
> through these newsgroups hourly and daily.
>
> The hypocrisy knows no bounds. While they rant and rave that
> no one should go to war for the US in Iraq, they rant and rave
> that anyone who took the same advice in the Vietnam era has no
> right to an opinion about this war.
No, you stupid rightard. Now, sit! Be quiet! The Chickenhawks are
people who never objected to the Vietnam War (or any other war -- they
like war), who hawkishly advocated aggressive military action (these
words aren't too big for you, are they?) but who, nevetheless, would
never, ever participate in war. If anyone was going to be be maimed or
die for their country, it would be someone else. So, Cheney took his
multiple deferments and never served' then went into Congress and
became a military "expert." Gingrich, Hastert,and Wolfowitz never
served. Limbaugh who, despite his analy cyst, could have served, never
did. All of these heroes are great hawks, but too chicken to fight
themselves. Bush did serve. He was trained to fly. That part of his
story is OK. The only problems with Bush are how he got into the ANG
and his final years of no-show service. His daddy used his influence to
get George junior not only into the ANG (which was nearly impossible at
the time) but also a direct commission (which was impossible without
massive political arm twisting). Bush did fly for a few years, but
refused to volunteer for overseas service, and in the end lost his
wings and went AWOL. This inconsistent little rich boy is now
Chickenhawk-in-chief.
Like these guys? Want to serve under them? OK, then, be proud and do
so. Join up and kill the ragheads. Do it for Bush, America and Exxon.
Die for your oil.
Wexford
James H. Hood
>
> James H. Hood wrote:
> > t1gercat <wexfo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1132819387.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > > Anyway, unenlightened one, Clinton didn't send Rangers to die in
> > > Somalia. George HW Bush did that.
> >
> > Wrong.....TF Ranger deployed to Somalia in August 1993.
>
> Wrong... I said that Bush began the incursion.
Memory problems? Read again.....
"Anyway, unenlightened one, Clinton didn't send Rangers to die in Somalia.
George HW Bush did that."
> He did; it was Geroge's
> idea. George sent in the Marines. Clinton inherited it.
The Marines weren't part of TF Ranger.
> > > The commander on the ground took risks when he couldn't get the
> > > armor he requested (because Powell refused to endorse his request),
and
> > > got his troops slaughtered by not planning their exit.
> >
> > Wrong again.....the egress from the hotel was already built into the
OPLAN.
>
> The egress plan was piss poor. That was my point, idiot.
More memory problems on your part.....
".....by not planning their exit."
> The Commander
> on the ground screwed it up.
Not at all, try reading about the incident someday.....everybody involved
cites the delays inherent in relaying instructions from the airborne
controllers.
> > > You'll note that Clinton learned his lesson from that mess. The
> > > incursion in Haiti, which was totally bloodless
> >
> > And was turned away the first time by a mob carrying nothing more than
> > rocks.....so much for klinton's resolve on that one.
>
> Lie. Our troops were in place there for an extended period of time.
Even more memory problems.....go read what happened to the USS Harlan County
in October 1993.
Morton Davis
"Drew" <aw...@labyrinth.vet> wrote in message
news:RGdhf.15$Dc4....@newshog.newsread.com...
Are you done blowing every one of your lying liberal socialist masters?
Jim Alder
news:1132863697.2...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
> Jim Alder wrote:
>> "robin hood zorrro" <robinho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The same shit, different day. The same hatemongering,
>> America-hating bile he and his fellow Fonda-esque traitors
>> troll through these newsgroups hourly and daily.
>>
>> The hypocrisy knows no bounds. While they rant and rave that
>> no one should go to war for the US in Iraq, they rant and
>> rave that anyone who took the same advice in the Vietnam
>> era has no right to an opinion about this war.
>
> No, you stupid rightard. Now, sit! Be quiet!
And here's a typical leftwing punk who lives on the internet
because he can mouth off to people without fear of getting his
head handed to him. This should be fascinating stuff, I'm sure.
> The Chickenhawks are people who never objected to the
> Vietnam War (or any other war -- they like war), who hawkishly
> advocated aggressive military action (these words aren't too
> big for you, are they?)
Blow me. Are those too big for you?
> but who, nevetheless, would never,
> ever participate in war. If anyone was going to be be maimed
> or die for their country, it would be someone else. So,
> Cheney took his multiple deferments and never served then
> went into Congress and became a military "expert." Gingrich,
> Hastert,and Wolfowitz never served. Limbaugh who, despite
> his analy cyst, could have served, never did.
And yet the left still kisses Clinton's ass even though he
pretended to be willing to go to war, signing up for ROTC to
postpone his own enlistment, then cancelled that when his draft
number came up too high to worry about being drafted. Apparently
lying and exploiting a family friend to get out of serving is
okay.
As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he was a
student. I believe he also got a married deferment because he
was married. BFD. You don't know that he had no objections to
the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging around in the rain for two
years in a jungle doesn't make anyone a "military expert."
> All of these
> heroes are great hawks, but too chicken to fight themselves.
Once again, you don't know anything of the kind. Millions of
men in every generation didn't serve in the military for
countless reasons. Only an anonymous pussy like yourself takes
the easy way and uses that fact to demean anyone to the right of
James Carville, while ignoring it in the rest.
> Bush did serve. He was trained to fly. That part of his
> story is OK. The only problems with Bush are how he got
> into the ANG and his final years of no-show service. His
> daddy used his influence to get George junior not only into
> the ANG (which was nearly impossible at the time) but also a
> direct commission (which was impossible without massive
> political arm twisting). Bush did fly for a few years, but
> refused to volunteer for overseas service, and in the end
> lost his wings and went AWOL.
To say your grasp of the facts is laughable would be a
tremendous understatement.
> This inconsistent little rich
> boy is now Chickenhawk-in-chief.
>
> Like these guys?
I like them better than anything your side has dragged out
from under a rock in the past few decades.
> Want to serve under them? OK, then, be
> proud and do so. Join up and kill the ragheads. Do it for
> Bush, America and Exxon. Die for your oil.
I'm over 50, dipshit. But you keep telling yourself that the
reason you're not in uniform is Bush. Then go back and hide
under the bed. If there's a chicken in this coop, it's you.
RTC
You must be one of them there pussy chickenshits like Limbaugh, Cheney,
and the Bush Meister
Why does everything always point back to Clinton with you imbeciles,
get over it.
He could get a blow job, unlike you ugly, smelly pussy republicons, and he
was a better man than you, but then, so is Hilary
"Jim Alder" <jima...@ssnet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9719ADACB73Bj...@216.196.97.142...
George Grapman
He said he supported the war but had "other priorities".
>
>> All of these
>> heroes are great hawks, but too chicken to fight themselves.
>
> Once again, you don't know anything of the kind. Millions of
> men in every generation didn't serve in the military for
> countless reasons. Only an anonymous pussy like yourself takes
> the easy way and uses that fact to demean anyone to the right of
> James Carville, while ignoring it in the rest.
>
>> Bush did serve. He was trained to fly. That part of his
>> story is OK. The only problems with Bush are how he got
>> into the ANG and his final years of no-show service. His
>> daddy used his influence to get George junior not only into
>> the ANG (which was nearly impossible at the time) but also a
>> direct commission (which was impossible without massive
>> political arm twisting). Bush did fly for a few years, but
>> refused to volunteer for overseas service, and in the end
>> lost his wings and went AWOL.
>
> To say your grasp of the facts is laughable would be a
> tremendous understatement.
Actually yours are. There were long waiting lists for those without
connections.
>
>> This inconsistent little rich
>> boy is now Chickenhawk-in-chief.
>>
>> Like these guys?
>
> I like them better than anything your side has dragged out
> from under a rock in the past few decades.
>
>> Want to serve under them? OK, then, be
>> proud and do so. Join up and kill the ragheads. Do it for
>> Bush, America and Exxon. Die for your oil.
>
> I'm over 50, dipshit. But you keep telling yourself that the
> reason you're not in uniform is Bush. Then go back and hide
> under the bed. If there's a chicken in this coop, it's you.
>
--
To reply via e-mail please delete 1 c from paccbell
David Moffitt
"RTC" <Devilh...@why.com> wrote in message
news:fXxhf.1220$Zb2...@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> Looks like he must have hit a sore spot with the truth
> You must be one of them there pussy chickenshits like Limbaugh, Cheney,
> and the Bush Meister
>
> Why does everything always point back to Clinton with you imbeciles,
> get over it.
> He could get a blow job, unlike you ugly, smelly pussy republicons, and he
> was a better man than you, but then, so is Hilary
%%%% Tell us about your military expierence or are you just another
hypocritical chickenshit leftard coward that hasn't served?
GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you want to
make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth."
>
David Moffitt
"George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:7iyhf.18304$BZ5....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
%%%% Another chickenshit leftard coward heard from. Tell us why you were too
chickenshit to serve George?
RTC
background of the rest of the yellow, coward pussies like Limbaugh,Bush,
Cheney, Rove, who don't have a single gut between them, you are probably to
ignorant to read the other posts
George Bush is a stupid hillbilly, a coward who did not make any sacrifices
for
what he thinks might be part his country but really doesn't belong to
cowards like him , Cheney, and Limbaugh, or you
Limbaugh is a paid whore of the conservatives, a genuine Nazi
Cheney is as corrupt as any human being can get
"David Moffitt" <moff...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:jTBhf.3375$aA2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Morton Davis
> "David Moffitt" <moff...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:jTBhf.3375$aA2....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "RTC" <Devilh...@why.com> wrote in message
> > news:fXxhf.1220$Zb2...@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
> > > Looks like he must have hit a sore spot with the truth
> > > You must be one of them there pussy chickenshits like Limbaugh,
Cheney,
> > > and the Bush Meister
> > >
> > > Why does everything always point back to Clinton with you imbeciles,
> > > get over it.
> > > He could get a blow job, unlike you ugly, smelly pussy republicons,
and
> he
> > > was a better man than you, but then, so is Hilary
> >
> > %%%% Tell us about your military expierence or are you just another
> > hypocritical chickenshit leftard coward that hasn't served?
> >
> > GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you
want
> to
> > make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth."
> >
> > >
> >
"RTC" <Devilh...@why.com> wrote in message
news:SxFhf.2119$Y%5.1...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> I already did, being a dumbass redneck republicon criminal with the
military
> background of the rest of the yellow, coward pussies like Limbaugh,Bush,
> Cheney, Rove, who don't have a single gut between them, you are probably
to
> ignorant to read the other posts
Funny for a DEmocrat, whose party is financed by a billionaire convicted
felon, to talk about anything.
RTC
"Morton Davis" <anti...@go.com> wrote in message
news:7FFhf.601965$xm3.466475@attbi_s21...
Jim Alder
news:fXxhf.1220$Zb2...@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:
> Looks like he must have hit a sore spot with the truth
Yeah, sure it does. It would look entirely different if he
had hit s sore spot with the usual leftwing bullshit, now
wouldn't it?
> You must be one of them there pussy chickenshits like
> Limbaugh, Cheney, and the Bush Meister
Of course! Otherwise you would actally reply to what I said
rather than this top posting childishness, right?
> Why does everything always point back to Clinton with you
> imbeciles, get over it.
Because he is the centerpiece of your hypocrisy.
Morton Davis
news:d%Fhf.2123$Y%5.1...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> Why don't you stop me pussy boy
Wh would anyone want to stop your continuing efforts to desatroy the
Democratic Party?
Jim Alder
Priorities rather than slogging around in the rain for two
years in a jungle? Good for him.
>>> All of these
>>> heroes are great hawks, but too chicken to fight
>>> themselves.
>>
>> Once again, you don't know anything of the kind.
>> Millions of
>> men in every generation didn't serve in the military for
>> countless reasons. Only an anonymous pussy like yourself
>> takes the easy way and uses that fact to demean anyone to
>> the right of James Carville, while ignoring it in the rest.
>>
>>> Bush did serve. He was trained to fly. That part of his
>>> story is OK. The only problems with Bush are how he got
>>> into the ANG and his final years of no-show service. His
>>> daddy used his influence to get George junior not only
>>> into the ANG (which was nearly impossible at the time) but
>>> also a direct commission (which was impossible without
>>> massive political arm twisting). Bush did fly for a few
>>> years, but refused to volunteer for overseas service, and
>>> in the end lost his wings and went AWOL.
>
>>
>> To say your grasp of the facts is laughable would be a
>> tremendous understatement.
>
> Actually yours are. There were long waiting lists for
> those without connections.
Not for the pilot program.
>>> This inconsistent little rich
>>> boy is now Chickenhawk-in-chief.
>>>
>>> Like these guys?
>>
>> I like them better than anything your side has dragged
>> out
>> from under a rock in the past few decades.
>>
>>> Want to serve under them? OK, then, be
>>> proud and do so. Join up and kill the ragheads. Do it for
>>> Bush, America and Exxon. Die for your oil.
>>
>> I'm over 50, dipshit. But you keep telling yourself that
>> the
>> reason you're not in uniform is Bush. Then go back and hide
>> under the bed. If there's a chicken in this coop, it's you.
>>
>
>
--
George Grapman
>>>
>>> As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he
>>> was a
>>> student. I believe he also got a married deferment because
>>> he was married. BFD. You don't know that he had no
>>> objections to the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging around in
>>> the rain for two years in a jungle doesn't make anyone a
>>> "military expert."
>>
>> He said he supported the war but had "other priorities".
>
> Priorities rather than slogging around in the rain for two
> years in a jungle? Good for him.
>
Great logic. He supported the war be evaded the draft and you say
"good for him". Other than the fact the Clinton openly opposed the war
and Cheney supported it what is the difference between the way they
dealt with the draft?
>>>> All of these
>>>> heroes are great hawks, but too chicken to fight
>>>> themselves.
>>> Once again, you don't know anything of the kind.
>>> Millions of
>>> men in every generation didn't serve in the military for
>>> countless reasons. Only an anonymous pussy like yourself
>>> takes the easy way and uses that fact to demean anyone to
>>> the right of James Carville, while ignoring it in the rest.
>>>
>>>> Bush did serve. He was trained to fly. That part of his
>>>> story is OK. The only problems with Bush are how he got
>>>> into the ANG and his final years of no-show service. His
>>>> daddy used his influence to get George junior not only
>>>> into the ANG (which was nearly impossible at the time) but
>>>> also a direct commission (which was impossible without
>>>> massive political arm twisting). Bush did fly for a few
>>>> years, but refused to volunteer for overseas service, and
>>>> in the end lost his wings and went AWOL.
>>> To say your grasp of the facts is laughable would be a
>>> tremendous understatement.
>> Actually yours are. There were long waiting lists for
>> those without connections.
>
> Not for the pilot program.
You had to get into the Guard to be in that program. If you had any
knowledge of that era you would know there were waiting lists.
George Grapman
Clinton , who openly opposed the war was a draft dodger.
Kerry who served admirably and later opposed the war is a traitor.
Cleland ,who lost limb in Vietnam, is a crybaby.
McCain was brainwashed.
All the GOP war wimps who supported the war as long as others did the
fighting are patriots.
Morton Davis
"George Grapman" <sfge...@pavcbell.net> wrote in message
news:B9Hhf.17558$D13....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Jim Alder wrote:
> >>>
> >>> As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he
> >>> was a
> >>> student. I believe he also got a married deferment because
> >>> he was married. BFD. You don't know that he had no
> >>> objections to the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging around in
> >>> the rain for two years in a jungle doesn't make anyone a
> >>> "military expert."
> >>
> >> He said he supported the war but had "other priorities".
> >
> > Priorities rather than slogging around in the rain for two
> > years in a jungle? Good for him.
> >
>
> Great logic. He supported the war be evaded the draft and you say
> "good for him". Other than the fact the Clinton openly opposed the war
> and Cheney supported it what is the difference between the way they
> dealt with the draft?
>
First off, PROVe he supported the war. Second off, PROVE that he did
anything extroidinary to avoid the draft, like the way Bill Clinton sucked
up to his congress critters.....
Jim Alder
> Jim Alder wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he
>>>> was a
>>>> student. I believe he also got a married deferment
>>>> because he was married. BFD. You don't know that he had
>>>> no objections to the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging
>>>> around in the rain for two years in a jungle doesn't make
>>>> anyone a "military expert."
>>>
>>> He said he supported the war but had "other
>>> priorities".
>>
>> Priorities rather than slogging around in the rain for
>> two years in a jungle? Good for him.
>>
> Great logic. He supported the war be evaded the draft and
> you say
> "good for him". Other than the fact the Clinton openly
> opposed the war and Cheney supported it what is the
> difference between the way they dealt with the draft?
Clinton didn't "openly" oppose the war until he was safely
out of it. Until then he "supported it" by pretending to join
the ROTC. Cheney took legitimate deferments as a student and
husband. That's the difference.
--
meje...@hotmail.com
there is a danger that HE might have to go? Is that not a chickenhawk?
Michael
meje...@hotmail.com
men.
>
> You'll note that Clinton learned his lesson from that mess. The
> incursion in Haiti, which was totally bloodless, was necessary to
> stabilize the island and return the president to power. It was
> successful in that the limited mission was accomplishied, Aristide went
> back to the presidential mansion and Haiti staggered onward.
>
Why was the incursion into Haiti necessary? Were they going to
attack us?
Michael
t1gercat
Jim Alder wrote:
> "t1gercat" <wexfo...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:1132863697.2...@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Jim Alder wrote:
> >> "robin hood zorrro" <robinho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> The same shit, different day. The same hatemongering,
> >> America-hating bile he and his fellow Fonda-esque traitors
> >> troll through these newsgroups hourly and daily.
> >>
> >> The hypocrisy knows no bounds. While they rant and rave that
> >> no one should go to war for the US in Iraq, they rant and
> >> rave that anyone who took the same advice in the Vietnam
> >> era has no right to an opinion about this war.
> >
> > No, you stupid rightard. Now, sit! Be quiet!
>
> And here's a typical leftwing punk who lives on the internet
> because he can mouth off to people without fear of getting his
> head handed to him. This should be fascinating stuff, I'm sure.
You didn't sit still and you weren't quiet. Now you'll look stupid.
>
> > The Chickenhawks are people who never objected to the
> > Vietnam War (or any other war -- they like war), who hawkishly
> > advocated aggressive military action (these words aren't too
> > big for you, are they?)
>
> Blow me. Are those too big for you?
Tut! Tut! Please, visit one of your homosexual friends. I'm sure one
of them could satisfy you.
>
> > but who, nevetheless, would never,
> > ever participate in war. If anyone was going to be be maimed
> > or die for their country, it would be someone else. So,
> > Cheney took his multiple deferments and never served then
> > went into Congress and became a military "expert." Gingrich,
> > Hastert,and Wolfowitz never served. Limbaugh who, despite
> > his analy cyst, could have served, never did.
>
> And yet the left still kisses Clinton's ass even though he
> pretended to be willing to go to war, signing up for ROTC to
> postpone his own enlistment, then cancelled that when his draft
> number came up too high to worry about being drafted. Apparently
> lying and exploiting a family friend to get out of serving is
> okay.
Never said that. Clinton did what he did. He did not invade Iraq,
however, and he has not been president for 5 years.
>
> As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he was a
> student. I believe he also got a married deferment because he
> was married. BFD. You don't know that he had no objections to
> the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging around in the rain for two
> years in a jungle doesn't make anyone a "military expert."
I know damn well that he had no objections to the Vietnam War. He's
said so. His daddy-in-law got him a job in the office of one of the
most conservative members of the Senate during the Vietnam War. He
could have served, but he didn't. That's what makes him a Chickenhawk.
>
> > All of these
> > heroes are great hawks, but too chicken to fight themselves.
>
> Once again, you don't know anything of the kind. Millions of
> men in every generation didn't serve in the military for
> countless reasons.
GIVE US A BREAK! None of these Chickenhawks had to work the family
farm. None of them were medical missionaries or boy geniouses. These
were men who manipulated the system, looked for ways to get out of
service or who used influence to keep them in service but at home.
Only an anonymous pussy like yourself takes
> the easy way and uses that fact to demean anyone to the right of
> James Carville, while ignoring it in the rest.
No, I'm only calling it as I see it. The Bushie crowd and some his most
vocal supporters are Chckenhawks. McCain sure as hell isn't. Neither
is Olvier North (but he's a theif, a liar and a traitor). But Ashcroft,
Cheney, Limbaugh, Gingrich, Wolfowitz and GW all fall short when it
comes to guts and glory.
>
> > Bush did serve. He was trained to fly. That part of his
> > story is OK. The only problems with Bush are how he got
> > into the ANG and his final years of no-show service. His
> > daddy used his influence to get George junior not only into
> > the ANG (which was nearly impossible at the time) but also a
> > direct commission (which was impossible without massive
> > political arm twisting). Bush did fly for a few years, but
> > refused to volunteer for overseas service, and in the end
> > lost his wings and went AWOL.
>
> To say your grasp of the facts is laughable would be a
> tremendous understatement.
NO, my grasp of the facts is accurate. I lived through that era. I put
my name on at least 30 NG and AR lists, yet the lists were years long,
so I was drafted and sent to Vietnam anyway. If you can name anyone
with GW Bush's resume, a BA with a C average in a History major, who
was given a direct commission in 1968 in an ANG unit, I'll send you a
cashier's check for $100. I had a Master's degree (MBA) and I couldn't
even enlist in one of those units. I was in good company, anyway. Half
of my basic training unit were college grads.
>
> > This inconsistent little rich
> > boy is now Chickenhawk-in-chief.
> >
> > Like these guys?
>
> I like them better than anything your side has dragged out
> from under a rock in the past few decades.
No accounting for some people's tastes.
>
> > Want to serve under them? OK, then, be
> > proud and do so. Join up and kill the ragheads. Do it for
> > Bush, America and Exxon. Die for your oil.
>
> I'm over 50, dipshit. But you keep telling yourself that the
> reason you're not in uniform is Bush. Then go back and hide
> under the bed. If there's a chicken in this coop, it's you.
I served, and I'm over 50. They're sending 50-year-olds to Iraq, you
know. Maybe if like it so much you could volunteer? Or, if you can't do
military, you could try the USO, the Red Cross or the Salvation Army.
Don't be a chickenhawk. Volunteer to serve for Bush, Iraq and Standard
Oil.
Wexford
David Moffitt
>I already did,
%%%% MOS/AFSC?
being a dumbass redneck republicon criminal with the military
> background of the rest of the yellow,
%%%% I'm a Vietnam vet.
David Moffitt
"George Grapman" <sfge...@pavcbell.net> wrote in message
news:B9Hhf.17558$D13....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> Jim Alder wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he
>>>> was a student. I believe he also got a married deferment because
>>>> he was married. BFD. You don't know that he had no
>>>> objections to the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging around in
>>>> the rain for two years in a jungle doesn't make anyone a
>>>> "military expert."
>>> He said he supported the war but had "other priorities".
>>
>> Priorities rather than slogging around in the rain for two years in a
>> jungle? Good for him.
>>
>
> Great logic. He supported the war be evaded the draft and you say "good
> for him". Other than the fact the Clinton openly opposed the war and
> Cheney supported it what is the difference between the way they dealt with
> the draft?
%%%% Hypocrite. You evaded the draft also. :o)
GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you want to
make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth."
>
David Moffitt
> Conservative reasoning:
> Clinton , who openly opposed the war was a draft dodger.
> Kerry who served admirably and later opposed the war is a traitor.
> Cleland ,who lost limb in Vietnam, is a crybaby.
> McCain was brainwashed.
> All the GOP war wimps who supported the war as long as others did the
> fighting are patriots.
%%%% Just like you supported Clinton right George?
GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you want to
make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth."
>
>
Morton Davis
>
> "George Grapman" <sfge...@pavcbell.net> wrote in message
> news:B9Hhf.17558$D13....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> > Jim Alder wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he
> >>>> was a student. I believe he also got a married deferment because
> >>>> he was married. BFD. You don't know that he had no
> >>>> objections to the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging around in
> >>>> the rain for two years in a jungle doesn't make anyone a
> >>>> "military expert."
> >>> He said he supported the war but had "other priorities".
> >>
> >> Priorities rather than slogging around in the rain for two years in
a
> >> jungle? Good for him.
> >>
> >
> > Great logic. He supported the war be evaded the draft and you say
"good
> > for him". Other than the fact the Clinton openly opposed the war and
> > Cheney supported it what is the difference between the way they dealt
with
> > the draft?
>
> %%%% Hypocrite. You evaded the draft also. :o)
>
>
George Grapman
He has stated that he would have been happy to serve and he supported
the war. That pesky draft board forced 5 deferments on him.
George Grapman
> George Grapman <sfge...@pavcbell.net> wrote in
> news:B9Hhf.17558$D13....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> Jim Alder wrote:
>>>>> As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he
>>>>> was a
>>>>> student. I believe he also got a married deferment
>>>>> because he was married. BFD. You don't know that he had
>>>>> no objections to the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging
>>>>> around in the rain for two years in a jungle doesn't make
>>>>> anyone a "military expert."
>>>>
>>>> He said he supported the war but had "other
>>>> priorities".
>>> Priorities rather than slogging around in the rain for
>>> two years in a jungle? Good for him.
>>>
>> Great logic. He supported the war be evaded the draft and
>> you say
>> "good for him". Other than the fact the Clinton openly
>> opposed the war and Cheney supported it what is the
>> difference between the way they dealt with the draft?
>
> Clinton didn't "openly" oppose the war until he was safely
> out of it. Until then he "supported it" by pretending to join
> the ROTC. Cheney took legitimate deferments as a student and
> husband. That's the difference.
Oh, but Cheney supported it an is a patriot because he had "other
priorities".
>> You had to get into the Guard to be in that program. If
>> you had any
>> knowledge of that era you would know there were waiting
>> lists.
>
> Not for the pilot program.
>
So you did not have to get into the Guard to be in the pilots program?
George Grapman
>>
>>
> Still waiting for proof Cheney supported the war.
>
>
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8388
Everyone knows Cheney's quote, delivered to the Senate committee that
was vetting him for service as George H.W. Bush's Defense Secretary,
that he "had other priorities" than going to fight for his country. But
he made another comment at that hearing that's less known and more
damning: He said he "would have obviously been happy to serve had I been
called." That, as John Nichols notes in his recent book Dick, is not
just an obfuscation or a tap dance; it's a lie. He was called, and he
ducked.
George Grapman
>
> First off, PROVe he supported the war. Second off, PROVE that he did
> anything extroidinary to avoid the draft, like the way Bill Clinton sucked
> up to his congress critters.....
>
>
How did Congress help Clinton avoid the draft?
Morton Davis
"George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:_XOhf.26593$tV6....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
he did anything out of the ordinary to avoid it.
David Moffitt
"George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:uZOhf.26603$tV6....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
> Jim Alder wrote:
>> George Grapman <sfge...@pavcbell.net> wrote in
>> news:B9Hhf.17558$D13....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com:
>>> Jim Alder wrote:
>>>>>> As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he
>>>>>> was a student. I believe he also got a married deferment
>>>>>> because he was married. BFD. You don't know that he had
>>>>>> no objections to the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging
>>>>>> around in the rain for two years in a jungle doesn't make
>>>>>> anyone a "military expert."
>>>>> He said he supported the war but had "other
>>>>> priorities".
>>>> Priorities rather than slogging around in the rain for
>>>> two years in a jungle? Good for him.
>>>>
>>> Great logic. He supported the war be evaded the draft and
>>> you say "good for him". Other than the fact the Clinton openly
>>> opposed the war and Cheney supported it what is the
>>> difference between the way they dealt with the draft?
>>
>> Clinton didn't "openly" oppose the war until he was safely out of it.
>> Until then he "supported it" by pretending to join the ROTC. Cheney took
>> legitimate deferments as a student and husband. That's the difference.
>
> Oh, but Cheney supported it an is a patriot because he had "other
> priorities".
%%%% Didn't you do a Cheney George?
GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you want to
make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth."
George Grapman
clear? what part of five deferments is not clear? By the way, you still
have not backed up your claim that"Congress critters" got Clinton out of
the draft.
George Grapman
>> priorities".
>
> %%%% Didn't you do a Cheney George?
Yes, but I opposed the war. If I was draft dodger why wasn't Cheney one?
George Grapman
>
> %%%% Didn't you do a Cheney George?
I only had two deferments. Cheney had 5. Guess that makes him 2 1/2
times more a draft dodger than me."
Jim Austin
> Congress is littered with false patriots, Republican and Democrat
> alike, who avoided military service.
>
> And the biggest warmonger of them all, George W. Bush, needed daddy's
> connections to ride out the war at home in the safety of the Texas Air
> National Guard and couldn't even complete that service.
>
> But Cheney's hypocrisy goes even further because his tirade on Monday
> was aimed primarily at Congressman John Murtha, the Pennsylvania
> Democrat who did serve his country, spending 37 years in the Marines
> before retiring as a colonel from the reserves and earning a Bronze
> Star and two Purple Hearts in Vietnam.
>
> Murtha, one of the most hawkish Democrats in Congress, has -- like so
> many other Americans -- realized he was had by the many deceptions of
> the Bush administration leading up to the invasion of Iraq and has
> called for immediate withdrawal of our troops from the debacle that has
> cost more than 2,000 Americans, and countless Iraqi civilians, their
> lives.
>
> Murtha calls the Iraq war "a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The
> future of our country is at risk. We can not continue on the present
> course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in
> the best interest of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or
> the Persian Gulf Region."
Murtha believes that such interests are better served when terrorists
can strike with impunity.
> Strong words from someone who voted to give Bush the authority to
> invade Iraq but words that come from someone who understands war a hell
> of a lot better than the cowards in the White House:
>
> Strong words from someone who has been there and faced death for his
> country -- something that a draft dodger like Dick Cheney can never,
> ever understand.
>
> It's bad enough when Bush uses Veterans Day, a holiday where we are
> supposed to honor those who serve our country, to spread his Iraq
> invasion propaganda and criticize those who dare question his failed
> policies.
>
> As Americans we have the freedom to agree or disagree with war but it
> is our duty to serve her when she calls.
>
> Draft dodgers are the worst kind of traitors to our country.
Draft dodging involves doing something illegal to avoid conscription.
> They avoided the call and are nothing but despicable.
Back in the 1960s, people like this poster praised draft dodgers and
did everything they could to encouraged them.
> Dick Cheney is a coward and a liar who represents an administration run
> by crooks and frauds.
>
> When I see someone like that criticizing someone who served their
> country in war, someone twice wounded on the field of battle, I
> consider the source.
This poster believes that somebody should be free to undermine U.S.
policy with being criticized in return.
> And, in this case, the source is nothing more than white, lying,
> draft-dodging trash.
>
> To use one of your own favorite phrases, Mr. Vice President, we suggest
> you just "fuck off."
>
> http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7679.shtml
>
> A gutless, draft-dodging coward named Dick Cheney
There are several problems with those who make the chickenhawk
argument.
The argument itself is a logical fallacy. It's an ad hominem argument.
It holds that we should reject a statement, not because of anything
wrong with the statement, but because of something about the speaker.
Liars knowingly make false arguments.
The congenitally stupid really believe such arguments are valid.
Those making the argument today belong to a faction that during the
1960s and '70s hated the military. They were the ones pelting returning
Vietnam veterans, calling them "babykillers," etc.
Draft dodger Bill Clinton avoided the draft because he "loathed the
military." That was liberal attitude at the time.
The chickenhawk argument is an argument for tolerance and indulgence of
state-sponsored terrorism. It's part of the leftist opposition to
anything that would inconvenience terrorists. Their agenda involves a
world where terrorists and other aggressors can strike with impunity.
By all accounts, the vast majority of military personal in Iraq and
elsewhere support Bush's opposition to state-sponsored terrorism. Those
in the armed services have generally supported strong action against
America's enemies rather than liberal policies of accommodation and
appeasement.
Indeed, Democrats in Florida tried to invalidate absentee votes of
overseas military personnel in 2000 as part of their efforts to steal
the presidential election.
The chickenhawk argument is symptomatic of leftist hatred of America's
"arrogance" in defending itself against terrorists. They share the rage
of terrorists themselves.
Indeed, if leftists had the courage of their malice, they would find a
more direct expression of their hatred. They would join terrorist
factions in Iraq. They would strap on dynamite to kill as many American
military personnel and Iraqi citizens as they can.
In short, those making the chickenhawk argument are themselves chicken
terrorists.
George Grapman
>> lives.
>>
>> Murtha calls the Iraq war "a flawed policy wrapped in illusion. The
>> future of our country is at risk. We can not continue on the present
>> course. It is evident that continued military action in Iraq is not in
>> the best interest of the United States of America, the Iraqi people or
>> the Persian Gulf Region."
>
> Murtha believes that such interests are better served when terrorists
> can strike with impunity.
Murtha understands that Iraq and 9/11 are not the same.
Morton Davis
You failed to prove he supported the war. The deferments he received were
not unusual.
>By the way, you still have not backed up your claim that"Congress
critters" got Clinton out of
> the draft.
>
Why'd he thank one for it then?
Rich Travsky
Priorities other than serving his country.
> >>> All of these
> >>> heroes are great hawks, but too chicken to fight
> >>> themselves.
> >>
> >> Once again, you don't know anything of the kind.
> >> Millions of
> >> men in every generation didn't serve in the military for
> >> countless reasons. Only an anonymous pussy like yourself
> >> takes the easy way and uses that fact to demean anyone to
> >> the right of James Carville, while ignoring it in the rest.
> >>
> >>> Bush did serve. He was trained to fly. That part of his
> >>> story is OK. The only problems with Bush are how he got
> >>> into the ANG and his final years of no-show service. His
> >>> daddy used his influence to get George junior not only
> >>> into the ANG (which was nearly impossible at the time) but
> >>> also a direct commission (which was impossible without
> >>> massive political arm twisting). Bush did fly for a few
> >>> years, but refused to volunteer for overseas service, and
> >>> in the end lost his wings and went AWOL.
> >
> >>
> >> To say your grasp of the facts is laughable would be a
> >> tremendous understatement.
> >
> > Actually yours are. There were long waiting lists for
> > those without connections.
>
> Not for the pilot program.
Yes, there was.
David Moffitt
%%%% From the left leaning site snopes.com:
In mid-1968 Clinton, who maintained that although he was not opposed to the
military or war in general, he was morally opposed to the Vietnam War, began
to seek ways of avoiding the draft. His first opportunity was provided
through the political and social connections of his uncle, Raymond Clinton,
and Henry Britt, a Hot Springs lawyer and former judge, who made
arrangements with the commanding officer of the local Naval Reserve unit,
Trice Ellis, to secure a billet for Clinton in the naval reserve:
The first relief Raymond Clinton and Britt found for Bill was a naval
billet. This would not only give him more time - he would not have to fill
it until after the school year ended in June - but it also would more likely
keep him out of harm's way in the war. Trice Ellis, the local naval
commander, said he was only too happy to accommodate the request, which he
did not consider out of the ordinary, and was "impressed by the chance to
enlist someone with a college education." He called the Navy command in New
Orleans and secured a two-year active duty billet for young Clinton. Ellis
assumed that Clinton would stop by that summer for an interview, but Clinton
never did. When he asked Raymond Clinton what happened, Raymond told him not
to worry, Bill would not be coming, he had been taken care of in another
way.
The "other way" that had "taken care" of Clinton was a favor Henry Britt
worked out with William S. Armstrong, chairman of the Garland County draft
board, a favor that would provide Clinton with only temporary protection
from the draft but would allow him to at least start his first year at
Oxford without committing him to military service:
Britt called draft board chairman Armstrong, his close friend, and asked
him, as he later recalled, to "put Clinton's draft notice in a drawer
someplace and leave it for a while. Give the boy a chance." This is
apparently what Armstrong did for several months. Another member of the
Garland County Draft Board, Robert Corrado, later remembered Armstrong
holding back Clinton's file and saying that they had to give him time to go
to Oxford.
As Clinton biographer David Maraniss points out, although the deliberate
delay in issuing Clinton's draft notice was undeniably a case of special
treatment, it was by no means an unusual consideration granted to Rhodes
Scholars:
Special consideration for Rhodes Scholars was not unusual around the
country. The draft board in Alameda County, California, was so impressed by
the achievements of the only black Rhodes winner that year, Tom Williamson
of Harvard, that they granted him a graduate school deferment even though
such deferments supposedly no longer existed. Darryl Gless, whose small home
town in Nebraska was so proud of him that they strung a banner across the
Main Street bank welcoming him back from his successful Rhodes interview,
also was given a special deferment. Dartmouth scholar John Isaacson visited
his draft board in Lewiston, Maine, and pleaded with them to let him go to
Oxford, which they did. University of Iowa scholar Mike Shea went to England
"happily but erroneously 2-S" for the first year. Paul Parish's mother in
Port Gibson, Mississippi, received a letter from the governor telling her
that Paul should go to England because they were trying to get an exemption
for Rhodes Scholars. For virtually every member of the Rhodes class of 1968
there was a similar story.
Clinton set sail from New York to begin his first year at Oxford in October
1968. At the end of his first term in December, Clinton received a notice
from the Selective Service instructing him to undergo an armed forces
physical examination at a U.S. air base near London, which he took (and
passed) on 13 January 1969. An Order to Report for Induction from the
Garland County Draft Board followed three months later, but because the
notice had been sent to England via surface mail, it was late in arriving,
and the assigned reporting date had already passed. Clinton had begun
another school term by then (the academic year at Oxford consisted of three
terms rather than two semesters), and the regulations allowed students who
received draft notices to finish out their current terms before reporting,
but he would be obligated to report for induction after the end of the
spring term unless he found an alternative by his new reporting date of 28
July 1969.
As Clinton headed home for Arkansas from England, his options for avoiding
the draft were limited. He did not qualify for conscientious objector status
because he did not have a history of opposing military service or war in
general, only the Vietnam War specifically. The local Army National Guard
and Reserve units were full. He took physicals for the Air Force and Navy
officer programs but failed them both. (He was undersize and didn't possess
the visual acuity required for the Air Force program, and he failed the Navy
exam due to substandard hearing.) Clinton's only available out seemed to be
joining the advanced ROTC program at the University of Arkansas, which had
no quotas and was open to graduate students, but since Clinton had already
received an induction notice, he would have to obtain the approval of
Willard Hawkins, the state Selective Service director (an appointee of the
Arkansas governor) to enter the program. Clinton called upon Cliff Jackson,
an Arkansas College graduate who had been Clinton's acquaintance at Oxford
and was now working for the state Republican party, and Jackson in turn
asked his boss, the head of the Arkansas Republican party, to arrange a
meeting between Clinton and Selective Service director Hawkins. Clinton also
received assistance from Lee Williams, an aide to U.S. Senator J. William
Fulbright of Arkansas (for whom Clinton had worked as a staffer while
attending Georgetown University). Williams, a University of Arkansas Law
School graduate himself, contacted the director of the university's ROTC
program, Colonel Eugene J. Holmes, to help get Clinton enrolled. After "an
extensive, approximately two-hour interview," Colonel Holmes agreed to
accept Clinton into the ROTC program on 17 July 1969 (a mere eleven days
before Clinton's 28 July induction deadline), although Clinton would not
actually be able to begin the program until he completed the basic training
camp the following summer. Clinton's draft notice was nullified, and his
draft board reclassified him 1-D (reservist deferment) on 7 August 1969.
Clinton apparently did intend to begin attending the University of Arkansas
Law School that fall, but sometime during the summer he changed his mind and
decided to return for a second year at Oxford instead:
By Clinton's account, he talked to Colonel Holmes and gained permission to
return to Oxford for the second year since the basic training that he was
required to attend before beginning advanced ROTC would not start until the
following summer. Holmes said later that he allowed Clinton to return to
Oxford for "a month or two," but expected him to enroll in the law school as
soon as possible. But a letter that Clinton wrote in December 1969 in which
he apologized for not writing more often - "I know I promised to let you
hear from me at least once a month" - is the strongest evidence that Holmes
was aware of and approved Clinton's plan to go back to Oxford. The rest of
the ROTC staff was expecting Clinton to enroll that fall. Ed Howard, the
drill sergeant, later recalled that there was great anger when word spread
through the ROTC office that Clinton was not on campus.
The details of Clinton's subsequent actions and decisions are murky, but
sometime after returning to Oxford that fall (where he later helped organize
London anti-war protests), probably between 1 October and 15 October 1969,
he changed his mind again and asked his draft board to drop his ROTC
deferment and reclassify him 1-A. Given recent policy changes (and rumors of
upcoming policy changes) by the Nixon administration at that time - graduate
students who received induction notices were now allowed to finish out their
school years rather than just the current terms; Nixon was said to be
considering withdrawing 35,000 troops from Vietnam, temporarily suspending
the draft, and changing the draft requirements so that only 19-year-olds
would be called,and only "those draftees who volunteered for service there"
would be shipped to Vietnam; and the administration was reportedly pushing
for a draft lottery system based on birthdates which would expose eligible
men to the draft for one year only - Clinton may have calculated that he was
not risking much by opting to drop his ROTC commitment in favor of a 1-A
classification. As Clinton biographer David Maraniss surmised:
The proponderance of evidence leads in one direction: to the notion that
with each passing week there were more signs that he might not get drafted
even if he abandoned the deferment. If Clinton, acting through his
stepfather, arranged to have the local draft board reclassify him 1-A after
October 1, he would have known that it was largely a symbolic act providing
him with the best of both worlds - the ability to say he had given up a
deferment, and the knowledge that even though he was 1-A again, he would not
be drafted that year.
When the first draft lottery of the Vietnam era was held on 1 December 1969,
Clinton's birthdate of 19 August was selected 311th, a number high enough to
practically guarantee that he would not be drafted (and indeed he was not).
A few days later, Clinton sat down and wrote the now-infamous letter to
Colonel Holmes explaining his reasons for reneging on his agreement to enter
the University of Arkansas ROTC program.
That Bill Clinton went to great lengths to avoid the Vietnam-era draft, that
he used political connections to obtain special favors, and that he made
promises and commitments which he later failed to honor, are all beyond
dispute.
Rules to be a Lefty
#1 Lying is OK
#2 Never admit you lie
#3 Other peoples money is rightfully yours
#4 The environment is as fragile as a tulip
#5 Never miss a chance to hate
#6 Diversity is only skin deep
#7 Use personal insults or name-call people who question you
#8 Killing a baby is OK, killing a murderer is wrong
#9 World peace can be achieved through appeasement
#11 When in doubt, always, ALWAYS, refer to rule #1
David Moffitt
> David Moffitt wrote:r
>>> priorities".
>>
>> %%%% Didn't you do a Cheney George?
>
> Yes, but I opposed the war. If I was draft dodger why wasn't Cheney one?
%%%% So you admit to being a hypocrite. Good! That is the first stage of
recovery from being a leftard. Now go and burn an effigy of the bitch in the
ditch.
David Moffitt
> David Moffitt wrote:
>>
>> %%%% Didn't you do a Cheney George?
>
>
> I only had two deferments. Cheney had 5. Guess that makes him 2 1/2 times
> more a draft dodger than me."
%%%% And just as much of a hypocrite. Why were you too cowardly to serve
your country George?
GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you want to
make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth."
George Grapman
> "George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
> news:9DQhf.24923$Zv5....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>> David Moffitt wrote:
>>> %%%% Didn't you do a Cheney George?
>>
>> I only had two deferments. Cheney had 5. Guess that makes him 2 1/2 times
>> more a draft dodger than me."
>
> %%%% And just as much of a hypocrite. Why were you too cowardly to serve
> your country George?
>
Can't defend Cheney,can you?
Jim Alder
I love it when you pretend to be even stupider than you are.
I'm surprised you don't pull a muscle.
Jim Alder
> David Moffitt wrote:
>> "George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:9DQhf.24923$Zv5....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>>> David Moffitt wrote:
>>>> %%%% Didn't you do a Cheney George?
>>>
>>> I only had two deferments. Cheney had 5. Guess that makes
>>> him 2 1/2 times
>>> more a draft dodger than me."
>>
>> %%%% And just as much of a hypocrite. Why were you too
>> cowardly to serve your country George?
>>
>
> Can't defend Cheney,can you?
Can't defend yourself, can you?
David Moffitt
> David Moffitt wrote:
>> "George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:9DQhf.24923$Zv5....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>>> David Moffitt wrote:
>>>> %%%% Didn't you do a Cheney George?
>>>
>>> I only had two deferments. Cheney had 5. Guess that makes him 2 1/2
>>> times more a draft dodger than me."
>>
>> %%%% And just as much of a hypocrite. Why were you too cowardly to serve
>> your country George?
>>
>
> Can't defend Cheney,can you?
%%%% Where did you ever get that idea? Both of you draft dodgers are lower
than snake shit in a wagon rut. My description of you is that ------>"YOU"
<-------- did a Cheney and dodged the draft hypocrite. IOW You are no better
than Cheney George.---- Get it? :o)
I can also weld, build houses, build and repair cars, build and repair
firearms, survey, raise livestock, raise corn, wheat, oats, soybeans,
tobacco, grow a produce garden, play a guitar, organ and a saxophone and
make women weak in the knees from memories
of long cold nights spent together in the heat of sexual passion between a
man and a woman.
David Moffitt
"Jim Alder" <jima...@ssnet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns971A8501A98F9...@216.196.97.142...
> George Grapman <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in
> news:NO%hf.1858$fO5....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> David Moffitt wrote:
>>> "George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
>>> news:9DQhf.24923$Zv5....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>>>> David Moffitt wrote:
>>>>> %%%% Didn't you do a Cheney George?
>>>>
>>>> I only had two deferments. Cheney had 5. Guess that makes
>>>> him 2 1/2 times
>>>> more a draft dodger than me."
>>>
>>> %%%% And just as much of a hypocrite. Why were you too
>>> cowardly to serve your country George?
>>>
>>
>> Can't defend Cheney,can you?
>
> Can't defend yourself, can you?
%%%% That's what is so damn funny. George is complaining about Cheney doing
the same thing he did and even worse is chicken George didn't have kids.
:o)
GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you want to
make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth."
>
Jim Alder
>
> "Jim Alder" <jima...@ssnet.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns971A8501A98F9...@216.196.97.142...
>> George Grapman <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in
>> news:NO%hf.1858$fO5....@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com:
>>
>>> David Moffitt wrote:
>>>> "George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:9DQhf.24923$Zv5....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>>>>> David Moffitt wrote:
>>>>>> %%%% Didn't you do a Cheney George?
>>>>>
>>>>> I only had two deferments. Cheney had 5. Guess that
>>>>> makes him 2 1/2 times
>>>>> more a draft dodger than me."
>>>>
>>>> %%%% And just as much of a hypocrite. Why were you too
>>>> cowardly to serve your country George?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Can't defend Cheney,can you?
>>
>> Can't defend yourself, can you?
>
> %%%% That's what is so damn funny. George is complaining
> about Cheney doing the same thing he did and even worse is
> chicken George didn't have kids.
>:o)
It used to be funny. Lately it's all just gotten pathetic.
sfge...@pacbell.net
Who did he thank?
Guess Cheney saying he would have have "obviously been happy" to serve
does not mean support, does it? Oh right, GOP war wimps are patriots,
Democrats who did not serve were draft dodgers and those who served
were traitors or crybabies.
Morton Davis
<sfge...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:1133055543....@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
NOPE.
>Oh right, GOP war wimps are patriots,
> Democrats who did not serve were draft dodgers and those who served
> were traitors or crybabies.
>
It sort of worked out that way. Democrats who did not serve, like Clinton,
topo extrordinary measures to asure the did not serve. Democrats who did
serve pretty much protested the war. Some, like Kerry, met with
representatives of an enemy government in time of war.
George Grapman
list?
Ever going to give details about those "congress critters" who you
claim kept Clinton out of the draft?
George Grapman
>>
>
> It sort of worked out that way. Democrats who did not serve, like Clinton,
> topo extrordinary measures to asure the did not serve. Democrats who did
> serve pretty much protested the war. Some, like Kerry, met with
> representatives of an enemy government in time of war.
>
>
http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
Who served in the military? Tell some friends about this page!
The full Chickenhawk database
(N.H. Gazette)
The 108th Senate
Complete list of Vets in Congress
Let's all take a look at this neocon Bush administration.
This page is Fair and Balanced - just like Fox News!!
Prominent Democrats
Representative Jack Murtha (D-PA) - distinguished 37-year career in the
U.S. Marine Corps, Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts, retired from the
Marine Corps Reserve as a colonel in 1990. (1)
Representative Richard Gephardt, former House Minority Leader - Missouri
Air National Guard, 1965-71. (1, 2)
Representative David Bonior - Staff Sgt., United States Air Force
1968-72 (1, 2)
Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle - 1st Lt., U.S. Air Force SAC 1969-72
(1, 2)
Former Vice President Al Gore - enlisted August 1969; sent to Vietnam
January 1971 as an army journalist, assigned to the 20th Engineer
Brigade headquartered at Bien Hoa, an airbase twenty miles northeast of
Saigon. More facts about Gore's Service
Former Senator Bob Kerrey... Democrat... Lt. j.g., U.S. Navy 1966-69;
Medal of Honor, Vietnam (1, 2)
Senator Daniel Inouye, US Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, World War Two
(1, 2)
Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star
with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in
combat (1)
Representative Charles Rangel, Staff Sgt., U.S. Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea (1, 2)
Former Senator Max Cleland, Captain, U.S. Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam (1, 2)
Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) - U.S. Army, 1951-1953. (1)
Senator Tom Harkin (D-IA) - Lt., U.S. Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,
1968-74. (1, 2)
Senator Jack Reed (D-RI) - U.S. Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91 (1)
Senator Fritz Hollings (D-SC) - served as a U.S. Army officer in World
War II, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons. (1)
Representative Leonard Boswell (D-IA) - Lt. Col., U.S. Army 1956-76; two
tours in Vietnam, two Distinguished Flying Crosses as a helicopter
pilot, two Bronze Stars, and the Soldier's Medal. (1, 2)
Former Representative "Pete" Peterson, Air Force Captain, POW,
Ambassador to Viet Nam, and recipient of the Purple Heart, the Silver
Star and the Legion of Merit. (1, 2)
Rep. Mike Thompson, D-CA: Staff sergeant/platoon leader with the 173rd
Airborne Brigade, U.S. Army; was wounded and received a Purple Heart.
(1, 2)
Bill McBride, Democratic Candidate for Florida Governor - volunteered
and served as a U.S. Marine in Vietnam; awarded Bronze Star with a
combat "V." (1)
Gray Davis, former California Governor, Army Captain in Vietnam;
received Bronze Star. (1)
Pete Stark, D-CA, served in the Air Force 1955-57
Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate - lengthy military career.
Prominent Republicans
Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert - avoided the draft, did not serve.
Former House Majority Leader Dick Armey - avoided the draft, did not serve.
House Majority Leader Tom Delay - avoided the draft, did not serve (1).
"So many minority youths had volunteered ... that there was literally no
room for patriotic folks like himself."
House Majority Whip Roy Blunt - did not serve
Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist - did not serve. (An impressive
medical resume, but not such a friend to cats in Boston.)
Majority Whip Mitch McConnell, R-KY - did not serve (1)
Rick Santorum, R-PA, third ranking Republican in the Senate - did not
serve. (1)
Former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott - avoided the draft, did not
serve.
Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld - served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as
an aviator and flight instructor. (1) Served as President Reagan's
Special Envoy to the Middle East and met with Saddam Hussein twice in
1983 and 1984.
GW Bush - decided that a six-year Nat'l Guard commitment really means
four years. Still says that he's "been to war." Huh?
VP Cheney - several deferments (1, 2), the last by marriage (in his own
words, "had other priorities than military service") (1)
Att'y Gen. John Ashcroft - did not serve (1, 2); received seven
deferment to teach business ed at SW Missouri State
Jeb Bush, Florida Governor - did not serve. (1)
Karl Rove - avoided the draft, did not serve (1), too busy being a
Republican.
Former Speaker Newt Gingrich - avoided the draft, did not serve (1, 2)
Former President Ronald Reagan - due to poor eyesight, served in a
noncombat role making movies for the Army in southern California during
WWII. He later seems to have confused his role as an actor playing a
tail gunner with the real thing.
"B-1" Bob Dornan - avoided Korean War combat duty by enrolling in
college acting classes (Orange County Weekly article). Enlisted only
after the fighting was over in Korea.
Phil Gramm - avoided the draft, did not serve, four (?) student deferments
Senator John McCain - McCain's naval honors include the Silver Star,
Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying
Cross. Why did the Bush campaign smear him so? At least Senators Cleland
(D-GA), Kerry (D-MA), Kerrey (D-NE), Robb (D-VA) and Hagel (R-NE)
defended him.
Former Senator Bob Dole - an honorable man.
http://www.bobdole.org/bio/wwII.php
Chuck Hagel - two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam.
http://www.senate.gov/~hagel/Information/bio.htm
Duke Cunningham - nominated for the Medal of Honor, received the Navy
Cross, two Silver Stars, fifteen Air Medals, the Purple Heart, and
several other decorations
http://www.house.gov/cunningham/about_duke.htm#Biography
Senator Jeff Sessions U.S. Army Reserves, 1973-1986
Colin Powell. What are we to make of Powell? On the one hand, a long
career as a military manager. On the other hand, accused of covering up
the My Lai massacre. Back on that first hand, one of the seemingly sane
voices in this administration when it comes to Iraq (or at least he used
to be). On the other hand, a clear hypocrite ("I am angry that so many
of the sons of the powerful and well-placed... managed to wangle slots
in Reserve and National Guard units...")
Representative Wayne Gilchrest (R-MD), served in USMC in Vietnam;
wounded in action.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Here are a few more...
Democrats
Chuck Robb, US Senator from Virginia, served in Vietnam
Howell Heflin... Democrat... Silver Star
George McGovern, famous liberal, awarded Silver Star & DFC, dozens of
missions during WWII.
Former President Bill Clinton - avoided the draft through student
deferments; in the autumn of 1969, Clinton entered the draft but
received a high number (311) and was never called to serve. (CNN
article.) "...it was his doubts about the morality of the war and the
Selective Service system that led him to abandon the ROTC idea and to
subject himself to a draft lottery. Only the luck of the draw - a high
lottery number - kept him out. " (Jeff Greenfield, ABC News, quoting
Gov. Clinton.)
Former President Jimmy Carter, most recent recipient of the Nobel Peace
Prize, seven years in the Navy. "Except for his fellow service-academy
graduate Dwight Eisenhower, no President of the twentieth century spent
more years in uniform than Carter." (New Yorker Magazine)
Former Vice President Walter Mondale, U.S. Army 1951-1953
Former Senator John Glenn, D-OH (1974-1999) - Served in WWII and Korea;
extensive military commendations include the Distinguished Flying Cross
on six occasions, and the Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
Congressman Tom Lantos, D-CA - Did not serve in the US military; did
serve in the Hungarian anti-Nazi underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg, is the only Holocaust survivor to serve in Congress.
Republicans/Conservatives
Political
Senator Richard Shelby, did not serve (1)
Senator Jon Kyl, R-AZ - did not serve (1, 2)
Senator Tim Hutchison, R-AR - did not serve (1, 2)
Rep. Christopher Cox, R-CA, fifth-ranking Republican in Congress - did
not serve. (1)
Representative Saxby Chambliss, Georgia - did not serve (1, 2), had a
"bad knee" (yet somehow feels he has a right to attack Max Cleland's
patriotism)
Former Representative JC Watts - did not serve (1, 2)
Jack Kemp, did not serve (1, 2) (was unfit because of a knee injury,
though he heroically continued as a National Football League quarterback
for another eight years - source)
Former Vice President Dan Quayle, avoided Vietnam service, got a slot in
the journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard when the unit was at
150% capacity (at least he showed up for his duty, unlike GW) (1, 2)
Eliot Abrams, did not serve (1, 2) (however, played a key role in
subverting democracy in South America)
Paul Wolfowitz, did not serve (1, 2)
Former Representative Vin Weber, did not serve (1, 2)
Richard Perle, did not serve (1, 2) (is the current bloodshed in the
Middle East a direct result of his treasonous meddling in Clinton
Administrstion foreign policy?)
Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy - did not serve. (1)
Rudy Giuliani, did not serve (1, 2)
Michael Bloomberg, did not serve (1, 2)
George Pataki, did not serve (1, 2)
Spencer Abraham, did not serve
John Engler, did not serve (1, 2)
Lindsey Graham (R-SC) - website used to claim service as a "Operation
Desert Shield and Desert Storm veteran." A current biographical website
makes no such claim. In reality, was a National Guard lawyer who never
left South Carolina during the Gulf War.
Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-CA, did not serve (1)
Rep. Darrell Issa, R-CA/49th, there were some problems with his service.
Rep. John M. McHugh, R-NY - avoided the draft, did not serve (1)
Arnold Schwarzenegger, CA Republican Governor - went AWOL from his
Austrian army base to enter a bodybuilding competition
George Herbert Walker Bush, pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese;
was lone survivor out of airplane (link).
Tom Ridge, Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam (1)
Representative Sam R. Johnson, combat missions in both Korea and
Vietnam, POW in Hanoi from April 1966 to February 1973 (1)
(don't ever run for president Sam, they'll spread rumors that you're crazy)
Senator Ted Stevens, R-AK, WW II pilot, two Distinguished Flying
Crosses, two Air Medals, and the Yuan Hai medal awarded by the Republic
of China.
Sen. John Warner, R-VA - Served in the Navy during WWII as a RM3
Congresswoman Heather Wilson, R-NM, served in the Air Force 1978-1989
Former President Gerald Ford, served in the Navy, WWII
Former Senator Strom Thurmond - apparently believes, along with Trent
Lott, that America should have been a segregated society. Still, he served.
Punditocracy and Preacher-types (See also Media Whores Online)
George Will, did not serve
Chris Matthews, Mediawhore, did not serve.
Bill O'Reilly, did not serve
Paul Gigot, did not serve.
Bill Bennett, Did not serve
Pat Buchanan, did not serve
Rush Limbaugh, did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst' [see "The Rush
Limbaugh Story" by Paul D. Colford, St. Martin's Press, 1993, Chapter 2:
Beating the Draft.])
Michael Savage (aka Michael Alan Weiner) - did not serve, too busy
chasing herbs and botany degrees in Hawaii and Fiji
John Wayne, did not serve
Pat Robertson - claimed during 1986 campaign to be a "combat veteran."
In reality, was a "Liquor Officer."
Bill Kristol, did not serve
Sean Hannity, did not serve.
Kenneth Starr, did not serve
Antonin Scalia, did not serve
Clarence Thomas, did not serve
Ralph Reed, did not serve
Michael Medved, did not serve
Charlie Daniels, did not serve
Ted Nugent, did not serve
Country Singer Toby Keith, did not serve. (1)
Radio Host Phil Hendrie, did not serve.
Ollie North - Convicted in the Iran-Contra scandal, at least he served.
Charlton Heston - served in WWII, but went AWOL when Michael Moore asked
him some tough questions.
Independents
Gov. Jesse Ventura, U.S. Navy SEAL training, did UDT work
Senator Jim Jeffords, U.S. Navy 1956-1959
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And let's not forget the Coast Guard...
The brave men and women of the United States Coast Guard risk their
lives every day to protect our nation and save thousands of lives every
year. The Coast Guard is in fact a branch of the United States Armed Forces.
Congressman Gene Taylor (D-MI) served in the U.S. Coast Guard Reserve
from 1971-1984. http://www.house.gov/genetaylor/biography.htm
Congressman Howard Coble (R-NC) served in the U.S. Coast Guard (Active
Duty)for 5.5 years. Served in the CG Reserve for 18 years.
http://coble.house.gov/biography/
William Delahunt (D-MA) served in the U.S. Coast Guard Reserve from
1963-1971 http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/faqs/William_Delahunt.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fighting Democrats
Back from the front lines and headed for Congress in 2006.
Paul Hackett - U.S. Senate - Ohio
Website: www.hackettforohio.com
Patrick Murphy - Pennsylvania's 8th Congressional District
Website: www.murphy06.com
Bryan Lentz - Pennslyvania's 7th Congressional District
Website: www.lentzforcongress.com
David Ashe - Virginia's 2nd Congressional District
Website: http://www.davidasheforcongress.com/
Andrew Duck - Maryland 6th Congressional District
Website at http://duckforcongress.org
Eric Massa - New York’s 29th District
Website: www.massaforcongress.com
David Moffitt
%%%% Yes.
How about Bush jumping the Guard
> list?
%%% He didn't. If you have proof otherwise post it.
> Ever going to give details about those "congress critters" who you claim
> kept Clinton out of the draft?
%%%% I posted how he got out of serving or are you denying that also?
Rules to be a Lefty
#1 Lying is OK
#2 Never admit you lie
#3 Other peoples money is rightfully yours
#4 The environment is as fragile as a tulip
#5 Never miss a chance to hate
#6 Diversity is only skin deep
#7 Use personal insults or name-call people who question you
#8 Killing a baby is OK, killing a murderer is wrong
#9 World peace can be achieved through appeasement
#11 When in doubt, always, ALWAYS, refer to rule #1
>
David Moffitt
Morton Davis wrote:
>>
>
> It sort of worked out that way. Democrats who did not serve, like Clinton,
> topo extrordinary measures to asure the did not serve. Democrats who did
> serve pretty much protested the war. Some, like Kerry, met with
> representatives of an enemy government in time of war.
>
>
http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html
Who served in the military? Tell some friends about this page!
%%%% Yes. More Republicans in the 108th Congress served than leftards or do
you deny that also chicken George?
Rules to be a Lefty
#1 Lying is OK
#2 Never admit you lie
#3 Other peoples money is rightfully yours
#4 The environment is as fragile as a tulip
#5 Never miss a chance to hate
#6 Diversity is only skin deep
#7 Use personal insults or name-call people who question you
#8 Killing a baby is OK, killing a murderer is wrong
#9 World peace can be achieved through appeasement
#11 When in doubt, always, ALWAYS, refer to rule #1
George Grapman
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/07/04/bush.02/
But the Times also found that despite a long waiting list nationwide,
Bush easily got in the Guard and received a commission as a second
lieutenant, despite lacking the credentials many other candidates had,
such as ROTC experience. He also had no previous aviation experience
>
> Rules to be a Lefty
>
> #1 Lying is OK
Bush in 2003-We found WMd #5s. Bush in 2004-We never found them/
> #2 Never admit you lie
Lying about consensual sex is impeachable, Lying abut a war is fine
> #3 Other peoples money is rightfully yours
The Bush ballpark.
> #4 The environment is as fragile as a tulip
Nothing comes in the way of profit.
> #5 Never miss a chance to hate
Claim all your critics hate America,
> #6 Diversity is only skin deep
Name some conservatives who supported the Voting Rights Act.
> #7 Use personal insults or name-call people who question you
See #5.
> #8 Killing a baby is OK, killing a murderer is wrong
Reverse the above.
> #9 World peace can be achieved through appeasement
Can't find Osama? Attack Iraq.
> #11 When in doubt, always, ALWAYS, refer to rule #1
>
Whenever you have a problem just moan about 9/11, Clinton or say "we
won the election".
Jim Alder
news:43881EB9...@hotmMOVEail.com:
> Jim Alder wrote:
>>
>> George Grapman <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in
>> news:7iyhf.18304$BZ5....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>> >> As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he
>> >> was a
>> >> student. I believe he also got a married deferment
>> >> because he was married. BFD. You don't know that he had
>> >> no objections to the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging
>> >> around in the rain for two years in a jungle doesn't
>> >> make anyone a "military expert."
>> >
>> > He said he supported the war but had "other
>> > priorities".
>>
>> Priorities rather than slogging around in the rain for
>> two years in a jungle? Good for him.
>
> Priorities other than serving his country.
He's serving his country now.
>> >> To say your grasp of the facts is laughable would be
>> >> a tremendous understatement.
>> >
>> > Actually yours are. There were long waiting lists for
>> > those without connections.
>>
>> Not for the pilot program.
>
> Yes, there was.
No, tbere wasn't.
George Grapman
> Rich Travsky <" traRvEsky"@hotmMOVEail.com> wrote in
> news:43881EB9...@hotmMOVEail.com:
>
>> Jim Alder wrote:
>>> George Grapman <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in
>>> news:7iyhf.18304$BZ5....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com:
>
>>>>> As for Cheney, he took student deferments because he
>>>>> was a
>>>>> student. I believe he also got a married deferment
>>>>> because he was married. BFD. You don't know that he had
>>>>> no objections to the Vietnam war. And FYI, slogging
>>>>> around in the rain for two years in a jungle doesn't
>>>>> make anyone a "military expert."
>>>> He said he supported the war but had "other
>>>> priorities".
>>> Priorities rather than slogging around in the rain for
>>> two years in a jungle? Good for him.
>> Priorities other than serving his country.
>
> He's serving his country now.
>
Great. Clinton served for 8 years so therefore, by your logic, was
not a draft dodger.
David Moffitt
%%%% ROTFLMAO! You left this out or denied it chicken George:
"In its report, the Los Angeles Times said it found no evidence that either
Bush or his father, former President George Bush, had personally tried to
influence or pressure anyone to get the younger Bush a place in the Texas
Guard."
I guess your chicken eyes couldn't read this part either chicken George:
"However, the Dallas Morning News, which also looked into Bush's military
record, reported that while Bush's unit in Texas had a waiting list for many
spots, he was accepted because he was one of a handful of applicants willing
and qualified to spend more than a year in active training flying F-102
jets."
>
>
>
>>
>> Rules to be a Lefty
>>
>> #1 Lying is OK
>
>
> Bush in 2003-We found WMd #5s. Bush in 2004-We never found them/
%%%% We havent found them because they are in Syria.
>> #2 Never admit you lie
>
> Lying about consensual sex is impeachable,
%%%% He was impeached for perjury.
Lying abut a war is fine
>> #3 Other peoples money is rightfully yours
>
> The Bush ballpark.
%%%% What?
>
>
>> #4 The environment is as fragile as a tulip
>
> Nothing comes in the way of profit.
%%%% Non response.
>> #5 Never miss a chance to hate
>
> Claim all your critics hate America,
%%%% Just the America haters chicken George.
>> #6 Diversity is only skin deep
>
> Name some conservatives who supported the Voting Rights Act.
%%%% ROTFLMAO! Wrong again chicken George.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/05/AR2005080501436.html
"Although Republicans were a minority in Congress at the time, it's a
little-remembered fact that a greater percentage of Republicans voted for
the Voting Rights Act of 1965 than did Democrats. In the Senate, all but two
Republicans supported the act on final passage -- 93 percent of the
Republican caucus, compared with 73 percent of Senate Democrats. On the
House side, 82 percent of Republicans supported the act's passage, as did 78
percent of Democrats. The same was true with the Civil Rights Act of the
year before: A substantially greater percentage of Republicans than
Democrats in both houses supported its passage."
>
>
>> #7 Use personal insults or name-call people who question you
>
> See #5.
>> #8 Killing a baby is OK, killing a murderer is wrong
>
> Reverse the above.
%%%% Killing a murderer is ok killing a baby isn't.
>> #9 World peace can be achieved through appeasement
>
> Can't find Osama? Attack Iraq.
%%%% Try again chicken George. OTOH Osama is dead and has been for over a
year.
>> #11 When in doubt, always, ALWAYS, refer to rule #1
>>
> Whenever you have a problem just moan about 9/11,
%%%% I never have chicken George.
Clinton or say "we
> won the election".
%%%% Just pointing out something leftards really hate-------> The truth
chicken George.
"I am a former kleagle of the Ku Klux Klan in Raleigh County and the
adjoining counties of the state .... The Klan is needed today as never
before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia .... It is
necessary that the order be promoted immediately and in every state of the
Union. Will you please inform me as to the possibilities of rebuilding the
Klan in the Realm of W. Va .... I hope that you will find it convenient to
answer my letter in regards to future possibilities." -- Former Klansman and
current US Senator Robert Byrd,
"[I will] never submit to fight beneath that banner [the American flag] with
a Negro by my side. Rather would I die a thousand times, and see Old Glory
trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of
ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen
from the wilds.-- Former Klansman and current US Senator Robert Byrd,
"I'll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years." --
Lyndon B. Johnson
"You fucking Jew bastard." -- Hillary Clinton to political operative Paul
Fray
"I think one man is just as good as another so long as he's not a n*gger or
a Chinaman. Uncle Will says that the Lord made a White man from dust, a
nigger from mud, then He threw up what was left and it came down a Chinaman.
He does hate Chinese and Japs. So do I. It is race prejudice, I guess. But I
am strongly of the opinion Negroes ought to be in Africa, Yellow men in Asia
and White men in Europe and America." Harry Truman
Jim Austin
<Snip>
> Murtha understands that Iraq and 9/11 are not the same.
Murtha's understanding is not controlling.
Bush launched a war on terrorism, not on just one particular terrorist
organization.
Bush's opponents, knowing that they cannot get their way on not
opposing terrorism at all, go to their fallback position: we should go
after one organization while all other terrorist organizations operate
unhindered by the U.S.
<Snip> The rest.
George Grapman
Guess you missed this part:
But the Times also found that despite a long waiting list nationwide,
Bush easily got in the Guard and received a commission as a second
lieutenant, despite lacking the credentials many other candidates had,
such as ROTC experience. He also had no previous aviation experience.
"He was a son of privilege, his father was a man of means, political
means, and if he was Joe Schmo trying to get into the Guard ... it
wasn't going to happen," said Richard Serrano, author of the Times story.
"His name didn't hurt, obviously," retired Col. Charles C. Shoemake, who
served with Bush, told the Times.
Texas Air National Guard historian Tom Hail also told the Times that the
fast-tracking of Bush through the ranks was unusual.
>
>>
>>
>>> Rules to be a Lefty
>>>
>>> #1 Lying is OK
>>
>> Bush in 2003-We found WMd #5s. Bush in 2004-We never found them/
>
> %%%% We havent found them because they are in Syria.
So you admit Bush lied in 2003 when he said we found them.
>
>>> #2 Never admit you lie
>> Lying about consensual sex is impeachable,
>
> %%%% He was impeached for perjury.
An acquitted.
>
> Lying abut a war is fine
>>> #3 Other peoples money is rightfully yours
>> The Bush ballpark.
>
> %%%% What?
Aren't you aware that Bush used eminent domain to take other people
property for his ballpark?
>
>>
>>> #4 The environment is as fragile as a tulip
>> Nothing comes in the way of profit.
>
> %%%% Non response.
>
>>> #5 Never miss a chance to hate
>> Claim all your critics hate America,
>
> %%%% Just the America haters chicken George.
>
>>> #6 Diversity is only skin deep
>> Name some conservatives who supported the Voting Rights Act.
>
> %%%% ROTFLMAO! Wrong again chicken George.
I sis conservatives, not Republicans. Try again.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/05/AR2005080501436.html
> "Although Republicans were a minority in Congress at the time, it's a
> little-remembered fact that a greater percentage of Republicans voted for
> the Voting Rights Act of 1965 than did Democrats. In the Senate, all but two
> Republicans supported the act on final passage -- 93 percent of the
> Republican caucus, compared with 73 percent of Senate Democrats. On the
> House side, 82 percent of Republicans supported the act's passage, as did 78
> percent of Democrats. The same was true with the Civil Rights Act of the
> year before: A substantially greater percentage of Republicans than
> Democrats in both houses supported its passage."
>
>
>>
>>> #7 Use personal insults or name-call people who question you
>> See #5.
--
David Moffitt
%%%% Link compliments of chicken George Grapman:
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/07/04/bush.02/
"In its report, the Los Angeles Times said it found no evidence that either
Bush or his father, former President George Bush, had personally tried to
influence or pressure anyone to get the younger Bush a place in the Texas
Guard."
"However, the Dallas Morning News, which also looked into Bush's military
record, reported that while Bush's unit in Texas had a waiting list for many
spots, he was accepted because he was one of a handful of applicants willing
and qualified to spend more than a year in active training flying F-102
jets."
GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you want to
make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth."
>
David Moffitt
%%%% Kerry fits the same description didn't he and had the politically
powerful Kennedy clan backing him. :o)
>
> "His name didn't hurt, obviously," retired Col. Charles C. Shoemake, who
> served with Bush, told the Times.
>
> Texas Air National Guard historian Tom Hail also told the Times that the
> fast-tracking of Bush through the ranks was unusual.
%%%% Nope didn't miss it at all. It was unusual but "he was accepted because
he was one of a handful of applicants willing and qualified to spend more
than a year in active training flying F-102 jets."
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Rules to be a Lefty
>>>>
>>>> #1 Lying is OK
>>>
>>> Bush in 2003-We found WMd #5s. Bush in 2004-We never found them/
>>
>> %%%% We havent found them because they are in Syria.
>
> So you admit Bush lied in 2003 when he said we found them.
%%%% Found some.
>>
>>>> #2 Never admit you lie
>>> Lying about consensual sex is impeachable,
>>
>> %%%% He was impeached for perjury.
>
> An acquitted.
%%%% Nope. He was not removed from office. He was guilty of lieing under
oath and had his law license jerked also.
>>
>> Lying abut a war is fine
>>>> #3 Other peoples money is rightfully yours
>>> The Bush ballpark.
>>
>> %%%% What?
>
> Aren't you aware that Bush used eminent domain to take other people
> property for his ballpark?
%%%% The city did. By your reasoning Bud Adams took property in Houston Tx.
and Nashville Tn. :o)
>>
>>>
>>>> #4 The environment is as fragile as a tulip
>>> Nothing comes in the way of profit.
>>
>> %%%% Non response.
>>
>>>> #5 Never miss a chance to hate
>>> Claim all your critics hate America,
>>
>> %%%% Just the America haters chicken George.
>>
>>>> #6 Diversity is only skin deep
>>> Name some conservatives who supported the Voting Rights Act.
>>
>> %%%% ROTFLMAO! Wrong again chicken George.
>
> I sis conservatives, not Republicans. Try again.
%%%% ROTFLMAO! Cornered and squealing again chicken George.
"I am a former kleagle of the Ku Klux Klan in Raleigh County and the
adjoining counties of the state .... The Klan is needed today as never
before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia .... It is
necessary that the order be promoted immediately and in every state of the
Union. Will you please inform me as to the possibilities of rebuilding the
Klan in the Realm of W. Va .... I hope that you will find it convenient to
answer my letter in regards to future possibilities." -- Former Klansman and
current US Senator Robert Byrd,
"[I will] never submit to fight beneath that banner [the American flag] with
a Negro by my side. Rather would I die a thousand times, and see Old Glory
trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of
ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen
from the wilds.-- Former Klansman and current US Senator Robert Byrd,
"I'll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years." --
Lyndon B. Johnson
"You fucking Jew bastard." -- Hillary Clinton to political operative Paul
Fray
"I think one man is just as good as another so long as he's not a n*gger or
a Chinaman. Uncle Will says that the Lord made a White man from dust, a
nigger from mud, then He threw up what was left and it came down a Chinaman.
He does hate Chinese and Japs. So do I. It is race prejudice, I guess. But I
am strongly of the opinion Negroes ought to be in Africa, Yellow men in Asia
and White men in Europe and America." Harry Truman
>>
Jim Alder
Whatever helps you sleep at night, but Cheney was never a
draft dodger. But it's been explained to you a hundred times. I
see no reason to do so again.
And as for Clinton serving his country in the White House, he
only served himself.
George Grapman
Aside from the fact the he openly opposed the war while Cheney
supported it how is Clintons dealing with the draft different than Cheney's?
>
> And as for Clinton serving his country in the White House, he
> only served himself.
>
--
RTC
Simple, he's a better man than you right wing, hate mongering, nazis are,
you skin headed, pimply faced hillbillies aren't even human, just as the SS
was not human
Sieg Heil Dickhead
"George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:MNbif.27101$tV6....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
Jim Alder
<snip>
This is the only part you needed to quote - not that Grapman
will acknowledge the truth.
> "However, the Dallas Morning News, which also looked into
> Bush's military record, reported that while Bush's unit in
> Texas had a waiting list for many spots, he was accepted
> because he was one of a handful of applicants willing and
> qualified to spend more than a year in active training
> flying F-102 jets."
I'm sure George heard about that back when, but it didn't
suit his visiou of reality, so he forgot it. As he will again. I
appreciate you digging it up. I wasn't going to bother, since he
appeared to be supplying information (read; "lies") off the top
of his head without citing anything.
Jim Alder
Aren't you at all embarrassed to dodge my response to a
question, then to repeat it the next day?
Clinton supported the war, even going so far as to sign up
for ROTC. He only opposed it after he knew he wouldn't have to
serve. It takes a lot of balls to kiss his ass and call anyone
else a coward.
Jim Alder
news:3dcif.2335$Y%5.1...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com:
> Why do you nazis always go after Clinton ?
Because he was and is scum. The better question is, why do
you commies keep kissing his ass?
Morton Davis
> Guess you missed this part:
>
>
> But the Times also found that despite a long waiting list nationwide,
> Bush easily got in the Guard and received a commission as a second
> lieutenant, despite lacking the credentials many other candidates had,
> such as ROTC experience. He also had no previous aviation experience.
>
>
of active duty training to fly the F-102. After training, Bush was an
excellent pilot. You didn't coast through flight school and you did not
coast through piloting the F-102. 30% of ALL F-102s crashed.
David Moffitt
"RTC" <Devilh...@why.com> wrote in message
news:3dcif.2335$Y%5.1...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> Why do you nazis always go after Clinton ?
%%%% You lose.
Godwin's Law: prov.
“As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.” There is a tradition in many
groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned
the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.
David Moffitt
"George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
news:MNbif.27101$tV6....@newssvr27.news.prodigy.net...
%%%% We are all aware that Clinton was a chickenshit coward who lied and ran
away.
while Cheney
> supported it
%%%% You have yet to provide a credible cite/site to back your claim. "I
hate Bush" is not a credible cite/site.
how is Clintons dealing with the draft different than Cheney's?
%%%% Clinton organized and protested against the USA in a foreign country.
Even Snopes posts this fact.
GILLETTE'S PRINCIPLE: "If you want to make people angry, lie. If you want to
make them absolutely livid with rage, tell the truth."
>>
George Grapman
Which had nothing to do with his draft status. By the way, what
country was that?
George Grapman
Still waiting for you name those members of Congress that you claim
helped Clinton avid the draft.
Sid9
Bush,Jr / Cheney run a
war on a Chinese credit
card while proposing more
tax breaks for the wealthy.
Bush,jr has not asked for any
sacrifices from the American people.
The only Americans sacrificing
for Bush,jr's war based on
lies are our soldiers, Marines
and their families..
"Blood, sweat and tears"
Only from the military and their families.
Morton Davis
Which was 1-A, or PRIME CHOICE for the draft. He used his connections to get
his draft notice held up until he could flee the country.
>By the way, what country was that?
The UK, DIPSHIT.
George Grapman
Clinton broke no laws and going there had no effect on his draft status.
Why are so shy about giving details about the members of Congress
whom you claim helped Clinton avoid the draft?
Morton Davis
> Morton Davis wrote:
> > "George Grapman" <sfge...@paccbell.net> wrote in message
> > news:byaif.18543$D13....@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> >> Guess you missed this part:
> >>
> >>
> >> But the Times also found that despite a long waiting list nationwide,
> >> Bush easily got in the Guard and received a commission as a second
> >> lieutenant, despite lacking the credentials many other candidates had,
> >> such as ROTC experience. He also had no previous aviation experience.
> >>
> >>
> > However, there was no long waiting list of men begging to do over one
year
> > of active duty training to fly the F-102. After training, Bush was an
> > excellent pilot. You didn't coast through flight school and you did not
> > coast through piloting the F-102. 30% of ALL F-102s crashed.
> >
> >
> Hint: you have to get into the Guard to get into the training.
Yes, and he got into the Guard to take the training.
> Still waiting for you name those members of Congress that you claim
> helped Clinton avid the draft.
http://www.1stcavmedic.com/bill-clinton-draft.htm
**** added for emphasis.
"Clinton's Uncle Raymond Clinton personally lobbied ******Senator
Fulbright******, William S. Armstrong, the chairman of the three-man Hot
Springs draft board, and Lt. Comdr. Trice Ellis, Jr., commanding officer of
the local Navy reserve unit, to obtain a slot for Clinton in the Naval
Reserve.
Clinton secured a "standard enlisted man's billet, not an officer's slot
which would have required Clinton to serve two years on active duty
beginning within 12 months of his acceptance." This Navy Reserve assignment
was "created especially for the Bill Clinton at a time in 1968 when no
existing reserve slots were open in his hometown unit."
According to the LA Times, "after about two weeks waiting for Bill Clinton
to arrive for his preliminary interview and physical exam, Ellis said he
called (Clinton's uncle) Raymond to inquire - 'What happened to that boy?'
According to Ellis, Clinton's uncle replied - 'Don't worry about it. He
won't be coming down. "It's all been taken care of.' "
--[LA Times Sep 02 92] "
"According to Cliff Jackson, Clinton's Oxford classmate, Clinton used the
ROTC program to "kill the draft notice, to avoid reporting on the July 28
induction date, which had already been postponed. And he did that by
promising to serve his country in the ROTC, number one, to enroll in the law
school that fall ... and he never enrolled."
--[Wash Times Sep 17 92]
Comment - Clinton's admission into the ROTC program again runs contrary to
his repeated statements that he received no special treatment in order to
evade military service. Col. Eugene Holmes, commander of the University of
Arkansas ROTC program, said Clinton was admitted after pressure from the Hot
Springs draft board and the office of Senator J. William Fulbright (D-AR).
Again, Clinton was receiving preferential treatment. In addition, records
from the Army reveal that Clinton was not legally eligible for the ROTC
program at that time. Army regulations required recruits to be enrolled at
the university and attending classes full-time before being admitted to an
ROTC program."
Fall 1969 - Clinton returns to Oxford for a second year. Clinton was
supposed to be at the Arkansas Law School. However, according to Cliff
Jackson, "****Sen. Fulbright's****** office and Bill himself continued to
exert tremendous pressure on poor Col. Holmes to get him [Clinton] to go
back to Oxford."
--[Wash Post Sep 13 92]
Clinton's ROTC Letter
As Entered in Congressional Record (Page: H5550) 7/30/93
Dear Col. Holmes,
I am sorry to be so long in writing. I know I promised to let you hear
from me at least once a month, and from now on you will, but I have to have
some time to think about this first letter. Almost daily since my return to
England I have thought about writing,about what I want to and ought to say.
First, I want to thank you, not only for saving me from the draft, but for
being so kind to me last summer, when I was as low as I have ever been. One
thing that made the bond we struck in good faith somewhat palatable to me
was my high regard for you personally. In retrospect, it seems that the
admiration might not have been mutual had you known a little more about me,
about my political beliefs and activities. At least you might have thought
me more fit for the draft than for ROTC.
Let me try to explain. As you know, I worked in a very minor position on
the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. I did it for the experience and the
salary but also for the opportunity, however small, of working every day
against a war I opposed and despised with a depth of feeling I had reserved
solely for racism in America before Vietnam. I did not take the matter
lightly but studied it carefully, and there was a time when not many people
had more information about Vietnam at hand than I did.
I have written and spoken and marched against the war. One of the national
organizers of the Vietnam Moratorium is a close friend of mine. After I left
Arkansas last summer, I went to Washington to work in the national
headquarters of the Moratorium, then to England to organize the Americans
here for demonstrations October 15 and November 16.
Interlocked with the war is the draft issue, which I did not begin to
consider separately until early 1968. For a law seminar at Georgetown I
wrote a paper on the legal arguments for and against allowing, within the
Selective Service System, the classification of selective conscientious
objection, for those opposed to participation in a particular war, not
simply to "participation in war in any form."
From my work, I came to believe that the draft system itself is
illegitimate. No government really rooted in limited, parliamentary
democracy should have the power to make its citizens fight and kill and die
in a war they may oppose, a war which even possibly may be wrong, a war,
which in any case, does not involve immediately the peace and freedom of the
nation. The draft was justified in World War II because the life of the
people collectively was at stake.
Individuals had to fight, if the nation was to survive, for the lives of
their country and their way of life. Vietnam is no such case. Nor was Korea
an example where, in my opinion, certain military action was justified but
the draft was not, for the reasons stated above.
Because of my opposition to the draft and the war, I am in great sympathy
with those who are not willing to fight, kill, and maybe die for their
country (i.e. the particular policy of a particular government) right or
wrong. Two of my friends at Oxford are conscientious objectors. I wrote a
letter of recommendation for one of them to his Mississippi draft board, a
letter I am more proud of than anything else I wrote at Oxford last year.
One of my roommates is a draft resister who is possibly under indictment and
may never be able to go home again. He is one of the bravest, best men I
know. His country needs men like him more than they know. That he is
considered a criminal is an obscenity.
The decision not to be a resister and the related subsequent decisions
were the most difficult of my life. I decided to accept the draft in spite
of my beliefs for one reason only, to maintain my political viability within
the system. For years I have worked to prepare myself for a political life
characterized by both practical political ability and concern for rapid
social progress. It is a life I still feel compelled to try to lead. I do
not think our system of government is by definition corrupt, however
dangerous and inadequate it has been in recent years. (The society may be
corrupt, but that is not the same thing, and if that is true we are all
finished anyway.)
When the draft came, despite political convictions, I was having a hard
time facing the prospect of fighting a war I had been fighting against, and
that is why I contacted you. ROTC was the one way in which I could possibly,
but not positively, avoid both Vietnam and the resistance. Going on with my
education, even coming back to England, played no part in my decision to
join ROTC. I am back here, and would have been at Arkansas Law School
because there is nothing else I can do. I would like to have been able to
take a year out perhaps to teach in a small college or work on some
community action project and in the process to decide whether to attend law
school or graduate school and how to begin putting what I have learned to
use.
But the particulars of my personal life are not near as important to me as
the principles involved. After I signed the ROTC letter of intent I began to
wonder whether the compromise I had made with myself was not more
objectionable than the draft would have been, because I had no interest in
the ROTC program itself and all I seem to have done was to protect myself
from physical harm. Also, I had begun to think that I had deceived you, not
by lies--there were none--but by failing to tell you all of the things I'm
telling you now. I doubt I had the mental coherence to articulate them then.
Page 2.
At that time, after we had made our agreement and you had sent my 1D
deferment to my draft board, the anguish and loss of my self regard and self
confidence really set in. I hardly slept for weeks and kept going by eating
compulsively and reading until exhaustion brought sleep. Finally, on
September 12 I stayed up all night writing a letter to the chairman of my
draft board, saying basically what is in the preceding paragraph, thanking
him for trying to help in a case where he really couldn't, and stating that
I couldn't do the ROTC after all and would he please draft me as soon as
possible.
I never mailed the letter, but I did carry it with me every day until I
got on the plane to return to England. I didn't mail the letter because I
didn't see, in the end, how my going in the army and maybe going to Vietnam
would achieve anything except a feeling that I had punished myself and
gotten what I deserved. So I came back to England to try to make something
of the second year of my Rhodes scholarship.
And that is where I am now, writing to you because you have been good to
me and have a right to know what I think and feel. I am writing too in the
hope that my telling this one story will help you understand more clearly
how so many fine people have come to find themselves loving their country
but loathing the military, to which you and other good men have devoted
years, lifetimes and the best service you could give. To many of us, it is
no longer clear what is service and what is dis-service, or if it is clear,
the conclusion is likely to be illegal.
Forgive the length of this letter. There was much to say. There is still a
lot to be said, but it can wait. Please say hello to Colonel
Jones for me.
Merry Christmas.
Sincerely,
Bill Clinton