16 yrs. in prison for stealing a candy bar
debbie
handle.
Debbie
04/07/2000
By Diane Jennings / The Dallas Morning News
Texas' reputation as a law-and-order state is receiving worldwide attention
after a Tyler jury sentenced a man to 16 years in prison for shoplifting a $1
candy bar.
Calls from around the world have flooded the Smith County district attorney's
office and the state district court after Kenneth Payne, 29, was sentenced to
hard time for the theft of a Snickers from a Tyler grocery on Dec. 17.
"It was a king size," Smith County assistant district attorney Jodi Brown said
after the jury returned its sentencing recommendation, The Associated Press
reported.
That comment, by a prosecutor handling her first felony, has left the Smith
County district attorney's office scrambling to explain but refusing to
apologize for the decision to prosecute Mr. Payne as a habitual offender.
Ordinarily theft of property under $500 is a misdemeanor with a punishment of a
$500 fine but no jail time, said Robert Dawson, a University of Texas law
professor.
But prosecutors bumped the theft to a felony because of Mr. Payne's history,
which includes 10 convictions, including theft, criminal mischief, assault and
possession of a controlled substance. One of those convictions was for stealing
a bag of Oreo cookies.
Mr. Payne's attorney, Linda Altier, could not be reached for comment Thursday
but has said she will appeal.
Mr. Payne, who has spent almost seven years in prison, was on parole for felony
theft when he put the Snickers down the front of his pants at the grocery. He
was confronted by the owner, who demanded return of the candy.
Jack Skeen, Smith County district attorney, said: "I don't have any second
thoughts about the prosecution of the defendant considering the number of
convictions that he's had."
He does, however, regret Ms. Brown's "inappropriate" remark. "Any case is
serious," Mr. Skeen said, especially one with "this type of criminal record."
Other observers were taken aback by the sentence.
"It's incredibly excessive, and I think it's just symbolic of our whole
approach to the use of incarceration, which is just completely out of
proportion to any rational strategy for addressing the problem of crime," said
Marc Mauer, assistant director of the Sentencing Project, a national nonprofit
organization that studies criminal justice issues.
"We've gotten into a public policy that's so punitive in its orientation. If
one were to go to other democratic nations - Canada, Europe - I don't think you
could find a single juror let alone a whole jury that would consider any jail
time, let alone 16 years."
UT Professor Dawson also said the decision to prosecute Mr. Payne as a habitual
offender and the subsequent 16-year sentence seemed harsh.
"Most prosecutors have better sense than that," he said. "It does say we're
willing to spend an incredible amount of money on incredibly petty matters. The
theft of a Snickers bar is still the theft of a Snickers bar."
It costs $14,000 a year to keep an inmate in prison in Texas, and over 16
years, "that probably comes out to about $800 a peanut," Mr. Dawson said. "That
seems a little high."
Mr. Mauer said it will cost taxpayers more than $200,000 to incarcerate Mr.
Payne if he serves his full sentence.
"It's hard to imagine that taxpayers couldn't come up with some better ways of
dealing with crime in Tyler."
Mr. Skeen, however, said "it's appropriate use of taxpayers' dollars when
you're talking about keeping a habitual criminal off the streets."
And, he pointed out, a Tyler jury thought so, too.
"Twelve people sat in there and heard all that evidence and felt the
appropriate sentence was 16 years."
Mr. Payne faced a maximum of 20 years' incarceration. He was offered a plea
bargain of eight years, Mr. Skeen said.
"It doesn't have to be violent crimes when the jury is looking at it. They're
looking at a pattern of repeat offenses."
First assistant district attorney David Dobbs said he wasn't surprised by Mr.
Payne's lengthy sentence or the resulting reaction.
"We had a situation eight years ago where our office prosecuted a habitual
criminal who had 17 or 18 felony convictions for stealing a brisket. He got a
life sentence from a jury who was sick of it," Mr. Dobbs said. "It caused the
same kind of uproar."
Mr. Dobbs said the jury could have ignored Mr. Payne's history of theft
convictions, "but we don't choose to do that here."
CSOUPKID
>From: msdi...@aol.comnojunk (debbie)
>Date: 4/7/00 8:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20000407201346...@ng-cr1.aol.com>
When you read this article, certain words and phrases like "habitual offender",
10 convictions, Mr. Payne's history, seven years in prison, on parole, will put
the phrase "stealing a candy bar" in perspective. When you add the parole and
probation time, county jail time etc., to the seven years he has already spent
in prison, that looks like a whole lot of attention to Mr. Payne to get him to
stop stealing. Unless Mr. Payne is a cleptomaniac, which I doubt, he probably
steals because he thinks society is soft, and he can get away with it. It
appears to be a lifestyle with him. And, Mr.Payne's listed crimes are probably
only the tip of the ice berg compared to the crimes he has committed and gotten
away with. Sometimes society has to say NO. Maybe when Mr. Payne gets out of
prison, he will decide to work for a candy bar like the rest of us do, or go
seek charity if he cannot find work. If Mr. Payne cannot refrain from stealing
while he is ON PAROLE, what would you suggest doing with him?
_____________________________________________________
"Living well is the best revenge"
MyWingsofanangel
article.
">He was offered a plea bargain of eight years"
One of my greatest concerns with our currenrt method of clearing court dockets
due to the increasing rush to criminalize all sorts of petty and obnoxious
behaviour is the use of 'plea bargains' by the threats of the "over charging"
by prosecutors. If a defendent doesn't "go along" then they are gonna catch
hell from these ego maniac DAs.
DA offices all over the USA are railroading folks inside with these
overcharging tactics causing all too many folks to accept plea bargains to
lower sentensing rather than face the wrath of these politicos by challenging
them in a real court case. Justice is not being served by these simpleminded
ego driven tactics.
The worst case scenarios are those where the DA threatens the Death Penalty in
order to get a defendent to cop a plea rather than TRY and defend themselves.
You all should pray you are never forced to make a decision when placed in that
spot between a rock and a hard place.
Dependiing on overworked, over burdened lack or resorses Public Defenders
against the teams in most DAs offices and deep pocker budgets they operate on
will simply cause you to accept a less than just penalty. THEN it will be too
late to write to us here on alt.prison because as many here will expound, if
your lips are moving you must be lying. <grin>
Have a nice day folks, I am not. Had a minor "stroke" today forcing Susan to
give up her volunteer taking care of another old fart. <grin> Glad to have her
back home tho. Tired of doing laundry, etc.
LOTS OF LOVE
MAX
>From: msdi...@aol.comnojunk (debbie)
"To Err is Human, Forgive Divine" the Sage has said. Well folks, "I did the
Crimes and did the times by existing in our human warehousing" and spent the
last 50 having a great time by Living, Loving and Learning.
Don Narsh 2000
RockyMtnAl
One thing about it that particularly disturbs me is a vivid comparison to a
case in which I was directly involved.
At the time, I was a volunteer firefighter/EMT. Working at the station one
night, we were dispatched to a call involving an infant in respiratory
distress. When we got there (about four minutes after the call reached us),
the 12 week old baby girl was in full arrest. We worked her all the way to the
hospital...her heart would start beating, but much too slowly for her age, and
she never regained spontaneous respirations. I called the hospital the next
morning, and was told that they'd taken her off life support earlier and she'd
died.
The autopsy indicated Shaken Baby Syndrome as the cause of death. Her father
eventually admitted to getting angry at her and manifesting his anger
physically. He was convicted of Child Abuse Resulting in Death. His sentence?
Sixteen years.
Now the good people of Texas are telling me that a Colorado infant is only as
valuable as a Texas candy bar.
Omnivore
Oh well, he did just get caught once.
What did he wind up with? Five years? He may do a little over two and a
half of that I suppose.
"CSOUPKID" <csou...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000407214208...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
CSOUPKID
>From: "Omnivore" sun...@SPAMOFFpacbell.net
>Date: 4/8/00 12:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <MyJH4.545$uE2.2...@news.pacbell.net>
Question: >Wasn't that cop who stole the six pounds of cocaine a habitual
offender?
Answer: > Oh well, he did just get caught once.
CSOUPKID
>Date: 4/8/00 10:23 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20000408102307...@ng-fj1.aol.com>
No. The people of Texas are telling you that it isn't a good idea to steal
while ON PAROLE. The people of Colorado MAY be telling you that a Colorado
infant is only as valuable as a Texas candy bar. Colorado is a liberal state,
isn't it? Didn't a lot of those trendies move out there to get away from what
they turned California into?
MyWingsofanangel
Seems most of the EarnedIincome Tax is from prison related employment.
LOTS OF LOVE
MAX
>From: csou...@aol.com (CSOUPKID)
Andy Chaplin
> >Subject: 16 yrs. in prison for stealing a candy bar
> >From: msdi...@aol.comnojunk (debbie)
> >Date: 4/7/00 8:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <20000407201346...@ng-cr1.aol.com>
>
> When you read this article, certain words and phrases like "habitual offender",
> 10 convictions, Mr. Payne's history, seven years in prison, on parole, will put
> the phrase "stealing a candy bar" in perspective. When you add the parole and
> probation time, county jail time etc., to the seven years he has already spent
> in prison, that looks like a whole lot of attention to Mr. Payne to get him to
> stop stealing. Unless Mr. Payne is a cleptomaniac, which I doubt, he probably
> steals because he thinks society is soft, and he can get away with it. It
> appears to be a lifestyle with him. And, Mr.Payne's listed crimes are probably
> only the tip of the ice berg compared to the crimes he has committed and gotten
> away with. Sometimes society has to say NO. Maybe when Mr. Payne gets out of
> prison, he will decide to work for a candy bar like the rest of us do, or go
> seek charity if he cannot find work. If Mr. Payne cannot refrain from stealing
> while he is ON PAROLE, what would you suggest doing with him?
>
Despite all of the above, which I mostly agree with, I don't see sixteen
years in prison for stealing a Snickers as being appropriate.
however much time he's already done, for however many offences, you still
can't say that the response of the system is proportionate to the offence.
I'm not going to suggest what is appropriate in this case, because I
don't know the offender, but I would suggest that anything more than a
day in prison and compulsory attendance on some sort of offending
behaviour course would be excessive whatever his personal circumstances.
After that (if I were the Judge in this case) I'd have the DA in my
chambers and send her out to issue parking tickets for a month which
might at least provide some useful social function, and teach the woman a
bit about getting her priorities right.
Andy
CSOUPKID
>From: Andy Chaplin aj...@coventry.ac.uk
>Date: 4/9/00 12:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.1000409050931.5306M-100000@leofric>
> but I would suggest that anything more than a
>day in prison and compulsory attendance on some sort of offending
>behaviour course would be excessive whatever his personal circumstances.
And, if you were unwilling to send him to prison, what would be "compulsory"
about attendance at some course? How much time would you give him if he didn't
attend the course? And, what if he were caught stealing again, while
attending,or not attending the course?
Omnivore
> >Subject: Re: 16 yrs. in prison for stealing a candy bar
> >From: Andy Chaplin aj...@coventry.ac.uk
> >Date: 4/9/00 12:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.1000409050931.5306M-100000@leofric>
>
> > but I would suggest that anything more than a
> >day in prison and compulsory attendance on some sort of offending
> >behaviour course would be excessive whatever his personal circumstances.
>
> And, if you were unwilling to send him to prison, what would be
"compulsory"
> about attendance at some course? How much time would you give him if he
didn't
> attend the course? And, what if he were caught stealing again, while
> attending,or not attending the course?
The Wonderful World of What-If alwyas brings to mind of a Disneyland
where the rides don't run and the gates don't open.
CSOUPKID
>Date: 4/9/00 9:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <E9%H4.913$uE2.3...@news.pa
> The Wonderful World of What-If alwyas brings to mind of a Disneyland
>where the rides don't run and the gates don't open.
The probability of the thief not attending the rehab course, or of being caught
stealing yet again is much higher than that of disneyland not running......of
course if you go to some third world countries, you might see amusment parks
just like the one you describe here.
Omnivore
> >Subject: Re: 16 yrs. in prison for stealing a candy bar
> >Date: 4/9/00 10:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <20000409223739...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
>
> >Ever hear of "unfunded mandates". Seems when the Democrats want to do so,
the
> >Republicnas scream to high heaven about creating just what you are
> >supporting.
> >taking on a job of a nany at damn good wages and security and medical
care
> >for
> >this "welfare" petty theif.
>
> What does this have to do with stealing? Ever know anyone who died for
lack of
> a candy bar? What about charity? There are all kinds of food banks and
> charities, that provide, not just rice and beans, but desserts, and treats
and
> entertainment for poor people. This fuck stold a candy bar because he is a
> fucking asshole, and subscribes to the FUCK YOU attitude and philosophy
that
> has been popular since the '60s.
>
> >You seem to be giving up on any other options other
> >than perpetuating the Prison-Industrial Complex's self serving boon
doggle.
>
> Then suggest what to do with a fuck that steals while ON PAROLE.
>
> > wonder when you folks will see the end of this long long road of waste,
> >fraud
> >and abuse we now call a War or Crime and drugs.
>
> Typical inmate/convict dodge. Blame someone else. Dodge the issue.
>
> >Passing the invoice on to your Grand Kids is a crime if not a sin in my
book.
>
> What about the markup in retail for assholes that steal. What about the
tax
> money/deficit for police and programs for assholes that steal, even not
> counting prisons? Or should we just disband all the police and corrections
and
> let the assholes steal. Then I could get a job in California as a
mercenary,
> helping the Korean grocers defend thier stores, so they can sell to people
who
> are willing to buy, rather than steal.
>
> > I
> >sure don't believe anyone is really trying to find other ways to solve
such
> >minor bullshit problems tahn with a sledge hammer appoach that feeds the
> >machine.
>
> How about a sledge hammer approach that only costs whatever hourly rate it
> costs to pay the man at arms to swing it, and breaks the hand of the
thief, at
> least preventing him from stealing until he heals up? This public service
> announcement has been brought to you by the Latin Counts, who will fuck yo
ass
> up, if you steal our shit, bro. (No, numbnuts, CSOUPKID hasn't joined the
Latin
> Counts. Of course if you people got your wish, and the LEOS and
corrections
> were gone, they would be looking for a few good men, and I would be
looking for
> a job)
>
> >Jeeez. I can;t believe this fear and intimidation and scare tactics has
> >clouded
> >normally intelligent and freedom loving Americans.
>
> I'm an American.
> I fear no one. I can work the slide on a pump shotgun so damn fast you
will
> think someone is firing a machinegun. I'm no slouch at knife work or bare
> knuckle, either.
Take a sledge to someone's hand?
Odd how some folks claim to love America so much want to make it more
like the countries it is supposedly better than.
Tough talking bugger. You certainly don't seem the sort one should feel
at ease turning ones back on.
lkside2
For all you liberals who are whining about this thief, why not have him move
next door to you? That way every night you can lock up your bbq grill, all
your rakes, lawn chairs, yard plants, better take the light bulbs out of your
yard lights (he'll take them too), lock your house up and install the iron
bars for every window, make sure you are there every day to get your mail
before he gets it... Do you want to live like that? If this goof is locked
up, the stuff I worked for, paid for, stays at my house... 10 convictions
and HOW many more he didn't get cracked for?? He is right where he belongs.
It was his choice to create the lifestyle he now has.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
MyWingsofanangel
Republicnas scream to high heaven about creating just what you are supporting.
taking on a job of a nany at damn good wages and security and medical care for
than perpetuating the Prison-Industrial Complex's self serving boon doggle.
and abuse we now call a War or Crime and drugs.
Passing the invoice on to your Grand Kids is a crime if not a sin in my book. I
sure don't believe anyone is really trying to find other ways to solve such
minor bullshit problems tahn with a sledge hammer appoach that feeds the
machine.
Jeeez. I can;t believe this fear and intimidation and scare tactics has clouded
normally intelligent and freedom loving Americans.
LOTS OF LOVE
MAX
>From: lkside2 lks...@my-deja.com
"To Err is Human, Forgive Divine" Well folks, "I did the Crimes and did the
times by existing in our human warehousing" and spent the last 50 having a
great time by Living, Loving and Learning.
Don Narsh 2000
RockyMtnAl
>as
>>valuable as a Texas candy bar.
>>
>
>No. The people of Texas are telling you that it isn't a good idea to steal
>while ON PAROLE. The people of Colorado MAY be telling you that a Colorado
>infant is only as valuable as a Texas candy bar. Colorado is a liberal state,
>isn't it? Didn't a lot of those trendies move out there to get away from what
>they turned California into?
Actually, Colorado is a pretty diverse state. Places like Boulder tend to be
San Francisco suburbs, but the county in which this incident occurred is not
only very conservative politically, but the same place quite a few "religious
right" organizations call home. Believe it or not, the community in which I
live is close to being too right-wing even for me! <g>
As far as the punishment being for a crime committed while on parole, I have no
problem IF it is actually that the person was simply doing the remainder of his
time for whatever he was on parole for. According to what I've seen so far,
though, it was actually a sixteen year sentence for theft. In Colorado (and I
assume most other states) a person who has his parole revoked for any reason
goes back to prison and does day-for-day until the end of the original
sentence, plus any additional time for whatever parole was violated for.
RockyMtnAl
Not really, though the county in which I worked until this morning probably has
more penal institutions than any other county in the US...9 state prisons, four
(I believe) federal joints, and a county jail. Tomorrow morning I report for a
new job, in another county...still with DOC, but without the shift work.
If I remember my figures correctly, the two major industries in Colorado are
the computer and hospitality (i.e., tourist) areas. Colorado Springs, near
where I live, is now often called "Silicon Mountain" because of the number of
high-tech firms that are there.
CSOUPKID
>From: mywingso...@aol.com (MyWingsofanangel)
>Date: 4/9/00 10:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20000409223739...@ng-ch1.aol.com>
>Ever hear of "unfunded mandates". Seems when the Democrats want to do so, the
>Republicnas scream to high heaven about creating just what you are
>supporting.
>taking on a job of a nany at damn good wages and security and medical care
>for
>this "welfare" petty theif.
What does this have to do with stealing? Ever know anyone who died for lack of
a candy bar? What about charity? There are all kinds of food banks and
charities, that provide, not just rice and beans, but desserts, and treats and
entertainment for poor people. This fuck stold a candy bar because he is a
fucking asshole, and subscribes to the FUCK YOU attitude and philosophy that
has been popular since the '60s.
>You seem to be giving up on any other options other
>than perpetuating the Prison-Industrial Complex's self serving boon doggle.
Then suggest what to do with a fuck that steals while ON PAROLE.
> wonder when you folks will see the end of this long long road of waste,
>fraud
>and abuse we now call a War or Crime and drugs.
Typical inmate/convict dodge. Blame someone else. Dodge the issue.
>Passing the invoice on to your Grand Kids is a crime if not a sin in my book.
What about the markup in retail for assholes that steal. What about the tax
money/deficit for police and programs for assholes that steal, even not
counting prisons? Or should we just disband all the police and corrections and
let the assholes steal. Then I could get a job in California as a mercenary,
helping the Korean grocers defend thier stores, so they can sell to people who
are willing to buy, rather than steal.
> I
>sure don't believe anyone is really trying to find other ways to solve such
>minor bullshit problems tahn with a sledge hammer appoach that feeds the
>machine.
How about a sledge hammer approach that only costs whatever hourly rate it
costs to pay the man at arms to swing it, and breaks the hand of the thief, at
least preventing him from stealing until he heals up? This public service
announcement has been brought to you by the Latin Counts, who will fuck yo ass
up, if you steal our shit, bro. (No, numbnuts, CSOUPKID hasn't joined the Latin
Counts. Of course if you people got your wish, and the LEOS and corrections
were gone, they would be looking for a few good men, and I would be looking for
a job)
>Jeeez. I can;t believe this fear and intimidation and scare tactics has
>clouded
>normally intelligent and freedom loving Americans.
I'm an American.
I fear no one. I can work the slide on a pump shotgun so damn fast you will
think someone is firing a machinegun. I'm no slouch at knife work or bare
knuckle, either.
CSOUPKID
>Date: 4/10/00 2:42 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <LJeI4.1986$Nm2....@news.swbell.net>
> Tough talking bugger. You certainly don't seem the sort one should feel
>at ease turning ones back on.
>
I'm glad you've got things figured out. I'm even less of a motherfucker you
want to take head on. Up yours this fine morning.
>
>"CSOUPKID" <csou...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:20000409232531...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
> Take a sledge to someone's hand?
> Odd how some folks claim to love America so much want to make it more
>like the countries it is supposedly better than.
> Tough talking bugger. You certainly don't seem the sort one should feel
>at ease turning ones back on.
lovak
> How about a sledge hammer approach that only costs whatever hourly rate it
> costs to pay the man at arms to swing it, and breaks the hand of the
thief, at
> least preventing him from stealing until he heals up? This public service
> announcement has been brought to you by the Latin Counts, who will fuck yo
ass
> up, if you steal our shit, bro. (No, numbnuts, CSOUPKID hasn't joined the
Latin
> Counts. Of course if you people got your wish, and the LEOS and
corrections
> were gone, they would be looking for a few good men, and I would be
looking for
> a job)
Latin Counts? Is that one of your gangs out there, SOUP? I don't
suppose you have any info on them you could send along? I'm working on
getting involved with our gang activities group.
--
LOVAK
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear
arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in
government."
- T. Jefferson
Andy Chaplin
> >Subject: Re: 16 yrs. in prison for stealing a candy bar
> >From: Andy Chaplin aj...@coventry.ac.uk
> >Date: 4/9/00 12:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <Pine.OSF.3.91.1000409050931.5306M-100000@leofric>
>
> > but I would suggest that anything more than a
> >day in prison and compulsory attendance on some sort of offending
> >behaviour course would be excessive whatever his personal circumstances.
>
> And, if you were unwilling to send him to prison, what would be "compulsory"
> about attendance at some course?
The sanction need not be custody.
> How much time would you give him if he didn't
> attend the course?
He could be fined. There are other options. It's hard to say when you
have no evidence of his history of compliance with orders.
> And, what if he were caught stealing again, while
> attending,or not attending the course?
>
That would depend on the nature of the offence. Ultimately this is about
a candy bar costing a dollar. Locking him up for any length of time is
just a waste of public resources.
Andy
lefty
I turned to yard work for amusement for a while.
I would say that the only thing which distinguishes street gangs from police
from politicians, etc., are sociopolitical considerations, and the
peculiarities of each respective group of people.
Street gangs are a nuiscance, but so are cops, politicians, nosy neighbors,
lawyers, and sheister auto-mechanics.
If you were a cop, you would know who the bad-asses are in your section,
just like in a gang. Reputations are earned for acts of bravery, or
whatever. Each side *sincerely* believes that it is doing the right thing.
Each side is struggling for what they percieve as justice, freedom, and
happiness. Interestingly - they are diametrically opposed to each other, in
spite of these similiar beliefs.
Moving beyond the US, we find that there are many examples of what we would
consider gang-like criminal behaviour conducted by the authorities in many
countries. The Thai Navy is nothing more than a bunch of pirates. The
Federalis in Mexico have a nasty reputation as well, and are certainly in
bed with the drug cartels. Latin America is very well known for it's
attitude toward torture, and torture of detainees is common, and practically
accepted. You could even look at the Nazis for gang like behaviour, and you
would certainly find it. You could even say the an entire population of
people can display gang-like behaviour, and this is certainly the case of
the Hutus slaughtering the Tutsis, or the case of the L.A. riots. I could go
on for hours with examples. To think that we are somehow immune as a society
from these phenomena is a dangerous mistake. It is our nature as humans to
behave this way, and we must accept our imperfection, and be willing to
forgive, and hopefully, one day in the future, no humans will need live in
fear of one another.
Ultimately, right and wrong is not a thing that you are just because all of
your friends say so, or because you get shiny medals for doing those things.
Right and wrong is something that each of us will be, over and over again,
until we die. Real criminals, gangsters and other maniacs do not acknowledge
this wisdom. They think that "they are simply right - no matter what". This
is the only mistake in thinking that you need to make, and you will be just
like Hitler. I find that many, many individual people, and groups of people
fall into this trap of thinking. It dosent matter what the topic may be.
Extremism is the opium (cocaine?) of the people. Unfortunately, police and
gangs quite often have this in common. That they are absolutely rock solid
in their position that "my side is right - your side is wrong".
MyWingsofanangel wrote in message
<20000410203436...@ng-md1.aol.com>...
>Are there ANY CO gangs? And if so, do they form up regionally or what? Do
they
>have different names they go by, etc? Are they selective. like by Jaol,
>Prisons, State, Feds, race, religion, polictics, etc?
>
>Do they carry any political weight?
>
>Do Unions recognize them or are any part of Unions?
>
>Is there an initiation thingie, like doing something to a certain kind of
>prisoner or such?
>
>Are the dues, taken from their prisoners for instance. <grin>
>
>Curious
>
>Wonder if "Lefty" or Bill L. has any up to date info on CO gangs. Do you
>"Lefty" or Bill L.? <grin>
>
>So many possibilities here I trust for devilsih work for idle hands. <grin>
>
>ROTFLMAO
>
>LOTS OF LOVE
>MAX
MyWingsofanangel
lkside2
next to me on this lake for sale. I kinda got you figured for the type of
neighbor, who, say, if you need a jig saw and you know I have one in my shop
(and I told you to borrow if you need); will go to my shop, borrow the saw,
and when I get back it's cleaner than it was before you took it and it has a
new blade in it..
Omnivore
"lkside2" <lks...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8cvakj$lb6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> ......Hey, CSoup.... when you retire, move up to the Yoop... there's 3
lots
> next to me on this lake for sale. I kinda got you figured for the type of
> neighbor, who, say, if you need a jig saw and you know I have one in my
shop
> (and I told you to borrow if you need); will go to my shop, borrow the
saw,
> and when I get back it's cleaner than it was before you took it and it has
a
> new blade in it..
Likely come to much the same when he borrows your girl friend?
lefty
stealing "food".
I seem to recall having someone send me a calculator while I was in prison
so that I could study more math while I was locked up. Somehow, that
calculator *DISAPPEARED* from the package, and no amount of complaining to
anyone did any good. This is just one example, the problem is actually quite
common.
So what should happen to GOON-GUARDS who also STEAL from an inmates US MAIL?
All of you smart-ass brown nosing coward bastards are invited to answer. Why
is it that some of us are priviledged with all of this power over others
(goons et. al.), and yet are not held to the same standards of conduct ? And
when they are caught, they are simply let off the hook ?
To balance the three strikes law for civilians, it is only fair that a law
be passed governing law enforcement community as well. I would propose, "
One strike and your out". Essentially, any law enforcement people who commit
a felony should be given a life term automatically, even if it is their
first offense. This would justify their authority over civilians in a
reasonable, balanced fashion.
Omnivore
> >ubject: Re: 16 yrs. in prison for stealing a candy bar
> >Date: 4/11/00 10:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <QIGI4.2652$Nm2....@news.swbell.net>
>
> >will go to my shop, borrow the
> >saw,
> >> and when I get back it's cleaner than it was before you took it and it
has
> >a
> >> new blade in it..
>
> > Likely come to much the same when he borrows your girl friend?
> >>
>
yea - mebbe you wouldn't send her back cleaner?
CSOUPKID
>From: "Omnivore" sun...@SPAMOFFpacbell.net
>Date: 4/11/00 10:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <QIGI4.2652$Nm2....@news.swbell.net>
>will go to my shop, borrow the
>saw,
>> and when I get back it's cleaner than it was before you took it and it has
>a
>> new blade in it..
> Likely come to much the same when he borrows your girl friend?
>>
That's a cutting wit you have there, Vore.
>
>"lkside2" <lks...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>news:8cvakj$lb6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>> ......Hey, CSoup.... when you retire, move up to the Yoop... there's 3
>lots
>> next to me on this lake for sale. I kinda got you figured for the type of
>> neighbor, who, say, if you need a jig saw and you know I have one in my
>shop
>> (and I told you to borrow if you need); will go to my shop, borrow the
>saw,
>> and when I get back it's cleaner than it was before you took it and it has
>a
>> new blade in it..
>
> Likely come to much the same when he borrows your girl friend?
>>
CSOUPKID
>From: "lefty" geom...@mindspring.com
>Date: 4/11/00 9:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <8d0jrt$l6c$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>
>That is very interesting that someone should go to prison for 16 years for
>stealing "food".
He wasn't stealing food because he was hungry. This is the US. You can get food
for free at a lot of places without stealing it. What about the people who make
thier living selling the candy bars? What about the rest of us that pay higher
prices because of assholes that steal?
>I seem to recall having someone send me a calculator while I was in prison
>so that I could study more math while I was locked up. Somehow, that
>calculator *DISAPPEARED* from the package, and no amount of complaining to
>anyone did any good. This is just
>one example, the problem is actually quite
>common.
Sure it is. Employee theft happens in EVERY occupation. BTW, staff could have
stolen it, but, were there inmate hands handling the package at ANY time,
before it was delivered to you?
>So what should happen to GOON-GUARDS who also STEAL from an inmates US MAIL?
Just the "goon guards" who steal, or the regular ones too? Or the mail room
staff, whom, at my joint arent correction officers? does it make a difference
who stole it? Answer: They should be disciplined and prosecuted.
>All of you smart-ass brown nosing coward bastards are invited to answer.
How about those of us who are not brown nosing coward bastards. Can we answer
too? I already did.
>Why
>is it that some of us are priviledged with all of this power over others
>(goons et. al.), and yet are not held to the same standards of conduct ?
Its the way of the world, sonny boy. Learn to like it, it aint gonna change.
>And
>when they are caught, they are simply let off the hook ?
Most people who get caught doing petty thefts at work are not prosecuted.
Sometimes they are disciplined, sometimes fired, sometimes get off with a
talking to. When someone steals your stuff, the ball is in your court, as to
how you handle it, whether or not you call the cops and press charges. By the
way, was the person who stole your calculator caught? If he was not caught,
then, how can you say he/she was let off the hook.
>To balance the three strikes law for civilians, it is only fair that a law
>be passed governing law enforcement community as well.
Three strikes applies to LEO's as well. That is three felony convictions,
right? Most of the time, after thier first felony conviction as an LEO, they
are no longer an LEO.
> I would propose, "
>One strike and your out". Essentially, any law enforcement people who commit
>a felony should be given a life term automatically, even if it is their
>first offense. This would justify their authority over civilians in a
>reasonable, balanced fashion.
Would you also support extra compensation for this kind of responsibility? such
as tripling LEO salaries? Would you also support these laws for the people who
have the real power over you, such as government officials, businessmen, CEO's,
doctors, lawyers, financiers, lobbyists, and/or anyone worth over a certain
amount of money? I am not in favor of screwing with peoples basic rights or the
constitution. I am against laws favoring certain individuals or penalizing
certain individuals based on race, gender, religion, occupation, or the amount
of money they have. We are all supposed to be equal under the law. Often it
doesnt work out that way, but, you are playing with fire when you try to create
protected classes or underclasses, or untouchables by law.
By the way. Since you appear to like mathematics ( I envy you, I am not good at
mathematics, that is why I am a prison guard instead of an engineer), have you
ever thought about trying to learn to think logically?
CSOUPKID
>Date: 4/11/00 10:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <gvRI4.3258$Nm2.1...@news.swbell.net>
>yea - mebbe you wouldn't send her back cleaner?
>
Well, I could just borrow a sheet from you, O Grand Imperial Whiz, and cover
her up. Us government employees are good at coverups, ya know.