All the way to hell and back in an American Jail
Craig
I hope no one minds that I crosspost this to alt.l-e for the sake of
someone bitching of what luxurious country clubs the prisons are.
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
TxPrisoner wrote in message
<199803280850...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
All the way to hell and back in an American jail
( Independent on Sunday )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
MICHAEL BLUCKER tried to commit suicide several times when he was in prison.
He tried hanging himself. He tried an overdose. He tried slashing his
wrists.
Each time his fellow prisoners came to the rescue.
"They stopped me," he said, "because I was too valuable to die."
Blucker was a tradable commodity during his stay at Menard Maximum Security
Prison in the state of Illinois. For nine months he was a sex slave, raped
between 10 and 15 times a week, rented out by inmates to other inmates in
exchange for drugs, cash,alcohol or cigarettes.
The number of - as he put it - "customers" who took advantage of his
services
exceeded 50. On one occasion, on 22 August 1993, he said he was gang-raped
by
15 prisoners in a shower. He has since been diagnosed as HIV positive.
Blucker's experience was almost unspeakable but hardly exceptional. An
organisation called Stop Prisoner Rape cites numerous academic studies to
estimate that 300,000 male prisoners are sexually assaulted in the United
States every year. That estimateis considered conservative. No one is paying
any attention. The general feeling seems to be, in this most retributive of
Western societies, that bad guys have to take their medicine; that "you
deserve
everything you get", as Blucker observed grimly. Noone has ever been
criminally
charged in the US for raping a male prisoner.
BLUCKER, who was set free on 3 January this year after serving four years
and
seven months for theft, lives now in a small, cluttered flat in the Chicago
suburb of Crystal Lake, with three caged birds, a rabbit, and his wife,
Laura.
In a three-hourinterview, Blucker told his story.
The first incident took place on 15 May 1993, 10 days after he had been
transferred from another, more benign correction centre to Menard. Blucker
was
in a section of the prison where all the other inmates were black, all
belonged
to rigidlyhierarchical gangs. His cell-mate was the leader of a gang called
the
Vice Lords. A small, skinny, light- skinned individual, he was known by the
name Tyboo.
"We got up for breakfast and Prince Mike, Tyboo's bodyguard, came into the
cell
with another Vice Lords gang guy. Bodyguards came to pick up Tyboo and
escort
him out whenever he left the cell. That was always the routine.
"Tyboo had said to me a day earlier that he 'wanted a wife'. I didn' t
register
at the time, but I quickly found out what he meant. Tyboo came up behind me,
Mike started a discussion about something and the next thing I know I have a
stinger [electrical]cord wrapped around my neck, and he's talking about
'take
off my clothes', but even then I don't know why he told me to do that
because
he was in the process of doing it for me. I tried to fight and struggle,
whatever I could do, but it wasn't lastingvery long because I was losing
oxygen. I ended up getting raped, by all three of them - anally and in the
mouth.
"After that I was threatened. They said that if I told anybody I would get
killed, and all that routine stuff. When they left, I brushed my teeth and
washed off what I could because it was nasty. It was disgusting."
Nasty and disgusting quickly became routine, despite his efforts to fight
back.
"At first I fought, every time. I got hurt really bad. They put oranges and
apples in a pillow case and beat me with it. They left no bruises but I had
internal damage. Iwas vomiting blood. That was pretty much the end of my
resistance."
WIRY, long-limbed, looking younger than his 28 years, Michael Blucker sat
cross-legged on the floor, absent-mindedly stroking a cockatiel perched on
his
right shoulder, its periodic screeches intruding on an otherwise ordinary
domestic scene. Hisblonde, attractive wife sat placidly on a sofa in T-shirt
and jeans as he related his nightmare with the deadpan drawl of a
mid-Western
bank clerk recalling an uneventful day at work.
Tyboo arranged things with the prison guards ("the inmates run the prison,
not
the guards") for Blucker to be transferred to a cell with a gang member
called
Johnny Cross, his pimp for the next nine months. "When it came to the issue
of
being sold byJohnny Cross, it would be a 'do it in 15 minutes and get back'.
I
had bodyguards with me. They would take me down to the cells I needed to go
to,
kind of like they were protecting their property, and they picked up the
money
- or drugs, or whatever -when I was done."
The emotional damage was evident in his attempts to kill himself. The
physical
damage, well before he learnt he was HIV positive, was appalling. "A man and
a
man are not designed to have sex. The pain and the agony of being repeatedly
fucked like that,I can't begin to describe it. Imagine the most painful
bowel
movement times a hundred and you'll have a vague idea of what I'm talking
about. When it came to my own bowel movements, after I was done I'd see
parts
of the inners of my rectum that had comeout, and I had to feed them back in.
I
was torn to pieces inside because the customers wouldn't lubricate
themselves."
How did he deal with it? How had he, apparently, managed to cling on to his
sanity? "After a while it becomes routine," he shrugged. "Sort of like,
'let's
get this shit over with, so let's go'. Though a part of me wanted to die,
the
natural impulse isto live and I figured that eventually I'd get out."
Laura Blucker, who had been largely silent, piped up now; she said that when
she took stock of what was happening to Michael, six months after the horror
had begun, she was physically sick for days: "What got me was that often it
would be two guys at atime, one in front and one behind."
What also got her was the reason why he had been transferred to Menard. The
two
got married in October 1992, two months before his conviction. Now aged 43,
she
had been married twice before and given birth to four children, one of whom
now
has a childof her own. When, to her surprise, he was sent to jail, she
"flipped". She decided she wanted a divorce, and, on learning the news,
Blucker
was understandably upset. He says he was so upset that he started doing
crazy
things like smashing light bulbs,"scratching himself" and writing confused,
rambling, gloomy letters to
Laura which the prison authorities intercepted.
This prison was a low-security institution, appropriate for a felon whose
non-violent crimes included burglary and buying a car with a forged cheque.
For
his tantrums, however, Blucker was sent to Menard, a prison with windowless
cells built 45 feetunderground in an old rock quarry. The majority of the
inmates were murderers and other violent criminals condemned to sentences
ranging from 30 years to life.
No concern had been shown to rehabilitate him. At no point did the judicial
or
prison authorities display any sensitivity to the fact that he had been
brought
up in a broken home, that he had spent his teens in foster homes and -
periodically -psychiatric wards, that when he was cast out into the world
aged
18 he was homeless and unemployed. None of that. They packed him off to
Menard,
an innocent thrown to the lions, and looked the other way.
It took six months of relentless mauling before Blucker summoned up the
courage
to inform the authorities what was happening to him. " I told the guards,
the
internal affairs officer, everyone in authority that I came across. But they
didn't care aboutme. Their only concern was that they might be able to use
me
to intercept the drugs flow into the prison." Finally, in April 1994, he was
diagnosed as HIV positive and, following the intervention of a state senator
in
Chicago, was transferred to asafer, gentler prison from where he was sent to
hospital to have warts in his rectum and genitals surgically removed.
On his release he sued the authorities at Menard for having ignored his
repeated requests for help. The defence argument is that he took pleasure in
homosexual sex and sold his favours to sustain a drug habit, charges he
firmly
denies. The case awaitsresolution.
Michael Blucker and Laura remarried on 13 August this year. She works as a
manager in a jeweller's shop; he seizes whatever part-time labouring jobs
come
his way. They appear happy, consoled and nourished by a shared and profound
faith in Christ. Soprofound that Laura cheerfully admits they engage in
unprotected sex. "We're hoping to have a baby some day," she smiled. "Not
yet,
but some day."
Her husband is convinced, and she believes him, that - no matter what the
tests
might show - he will not develop full-blown Aids, which happens to be the
leading cause of death among inmates in Illinois. "I'm healed!" he said,
suddenly animated,suddenly irrational. But not at all contemptible, because
reason and logic can be trite, unhelpful faculties when a man who has
endured
the torments of hell is battling to return to the land of the living. "I
don't
take medication, nothing. I believewhat God says. I believe the spirit of
doubt
comes from Satan and his dominion. I believe Jesus died on the cross for me
so
I would be healed.
"And this, this," he proclaimed, with the exultation of the saved, "this I
believe with all my heart: I have defeated Satan. As Jesus did, I have
defeated
Satan, too."
©1997 Newspaper Publishing P.L.C.
John Carlin, All the way to hell and back in an American jail., Independent
on
Sunday, 11-16-1997, pp 24.
A Texas Prisoner: http://members.aol.com/txprisoner
Mailing List:
http://server.com/WebApps/mail-list-subscribe.cgi?unique=9295816
Craig
Are you speaking for all prison guards or some prison guards or did you
hear of one that had that attitude?
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
Greg Dean wrote in message <6fm3pf$hjv$4...@gte2.gte.net>...
This is one reason prison guards want executions for at least
half, if not more, of all prisoners. Most are beyond redemption
anyway. The choices that they made at 13 to 16 so locks them in
that until they hit the wall (lose everything, all support groups)
that they will never turn their lives around.
Andy Chaplin
On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Greg Dean wrote:
> This is one reason prison guards want executions for at least
> half, if not more, of all prisoners. Most are beyond redemption
> anyway. The choices that they made at 13 to 16 so locks them in
> that until they hit the wall (lose everything, all support groups)
> that they will never turn their lives around.
>
<article about anal rape snipped>
Hi there Greg
I think you may be exaggerating somewhat here. If prison guards wanted
half or more of all prisoners executed, you would be talking of a figure
of a quarter of a million a year. This rate of executing (not far short
of Holocaust proportions) would mean that you would be executing tax
dodgers and drunk drivers. I don't think that there are many prison
warders who would seriously advocate this. Has there been a survey done
on this? Perhaps you could let us know where we could look at the results
for ourselves.
Equally if most are beyond redemption then you are condemning a vast
slice of your population to eternal damnation. (30 per cent of all males
under 40 have a criminal record, if I remember rightly) If none of these
ex-offenders went straight, you would be in a lot worse state than you are
at present. Perhaps there are more people that have redeemed themselves
than you think.
Best Wishes
Andy
Twislok
On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Greg Dean wrote
:>> This is one reason prison guards want executions for at least
>> half, if not more, of all prisoners. Most are beyond redemption
>> anyway. The choices that they made at 13 to 16 so locks them in
>> that until they hit the wall (lose everything, all support groups)
>> that they will never turn their lives around.
>>
CO's who, for the most part don't participate here on this Ng for cultural,
econmic or intellectual reasons. We had a few in the past but they have been
flamed out. I'm sure we could find this opinion more openly expressed on
correction ng's somewhere and definitely in the local bars and taverns in these
rural prison towns oh lest I forget, in the weekend bar BQ's at these type's
CO's homes as well.
This is the reason so many attempts at rehabilitaion never even get off the
ground inside. These types can't stand seeing a convict trying to improve. The
sight of a convict studying a book just riles them up and invokes sarcastic
taunts, etc. I'm not demonizing as I've been accused of, I'm stating facts from
personal experiance. I've had farm boy hicks from central Illinois tell me I
was wasting my time reading and worse. And they could NEVER get the count right
the first time. We would stand on count sometimes for over an hour while they
tried to count the cellhouse. It was pathetic.
MAX
Bill
Greg Dean writes:
>This is one reason prison guards want executions
>for at least half, if not more, of all prisoners.
Interesting. I was not aware that all CO's favor executing 50% of the
prison population. Where did you find this statistic at?
Bill
*************************************************
"Nearly everyone will lie to you given the right circumstances." Bill
Clinton, Time
*************************************************
Craig
It wouldn't seem likely that COs would much be much in favor of a policy
that would throw nearly "half, if not more", of them out of a job.
Shame that the cretin that made that post and the folks that flamed COs
off the ng couldn't just get onto a ng of their own and have a go at it. I'm
sure it would be quite entertaining.
I spent some time at the California Rehabilitation Center - did most of the
program before they decided to exclude me for the same thing they sent me
there for.
I think most of the COs didn't have a problem with the idea of
rehbilitation so much as they had contempt for the way it was run, seeming
designed to fail. Hell, one of the program instructors felt some need to
tell us that HE could get a better job if he wanted. HE wasn't there because
HE was bottom of the barrell and not qualified for something better.
One CO told some of us that two types of folks were assigned there as
COs, the ones that were incompetent for the job and the ones that belived
too much in doing their job. I pretty much am one to mind my own business
and didn't have much problem from either sort. Not untypical of a locker
search would be a cop ask me if I had any contraband in my locker and I'd
tell him, "I'm sure of it.", and he'd walk off, looking for someone to
harass, while I tried to find him some.
Even the more asshole COs generally focus on the more uppity inmates -
in my experience. - A few just wanted to make things more unpleasant for
everyone.
and so it goes.........
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
Twislok wrote in message
<199803292010...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Twislok
>"Craig" <sun...@DELETEpacbell.net> Wrote
> Shame that the cretin that made that post and the folks that flamed COs
>off the ng couldn't just get onto a ng of their own and have a go at it.
Craig if you want to read those CO's Posts I have them in a file I could repost
them for you. It's not a big file and it is repetitious with terms like "scum
bag Cons" }scum bag wives and children of cons" burn em all and OH a whole lot
of sexual references to what the "animals" in prison enjoy doing to one
another. They also refer to CO's that disagree with them as being sexually
involved with convicts and on and on and on.
Let me know.
I'm not even confortable emailing the stuff to you.
I only save it when a newbie comes on claiming these cretins don't exist. That
all CO's have nothing but love in their hearts for the taxpayers and are doing
their level best to obey the laws the taxpayers laid down for them to follow.
Just doing their job is the usual lament.
MAX.
Craig
I think I get the idea. It is likely to be about much the same as
alt.law-enforcement where I have been hanging out. Seems the more 'vocal'
and overbearing are the more noticed. some of the more civil and open
minded th\ake a lot of flak and bullshit anyway. A fair number stand up for
who they perceive as peers however much of assholes they may be.
I don't focus a lot on various improprieties that were pulled on myself
in prison. I really didn't catch all that much in comparison to some things
I saw. - Well just one example: At Folsom I would notice COs on the door to
the dining hall. They would search folks to take away food they were trying
to take back to their cells. ALLWAYS the folks I saw being searched were
black.. I could walk quite blatantly by those same cops with obvious stuff
in my pockets. Hell - even in my hand once.
I can imagine that getting some shit could flame away some of the more
reasonable of COs sooner than the assholes that love an opportunity to put
out some hate.
I have heard things about prisons in other states - even other prisons
in California - I gather there must be quite a diversity in hireing
standards or something. Then again, the leadership of various prisons and
police departments might be somewhat reflected in the 'rank and file'.
well... had interruption that ruined my train of thought.........
A couple of them LEOs on alt,l-e seem to be particularly proud.
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
Twislok wrote in message
<199803292318...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Craig
I must say that some of the worst cop attitudes was at the county jail.
Well, some damned civil ones there too.
The real nastiest bunch of cop attitudes I saw was at a reception
center. but that was to deal with all sorts that hadn't been classified as
just how secure of institution they needed to be sent to. So I could
somewhat understand the general attitude of absolutely no shit and no
exceptions. There were a few decently civil ones there too though.
Of course the cops that run the busses need to be the spawn of satan to
qualify for that job. (I suspected that a few were civil human beings off
the bus. Well shit. Give inmates permission to whisper to one another and
soon the bus is going to become a riot of noise. I wouldn't want to put up
with it either if I was driving.)(Ihave heard evil storied of bus rides
though)
I have seen a lot of racism on the part of quite a number of COs. I'd
have found it even more distressing if I were a race that was being
discriminated against.
As for inmates: I only listened to some shit twice for sharing something
with a black buddy. I pretty much ignored them and wasn't bothered any
more.(One was a 'Native American' that was pissed because I gave a box of
cerial to a black guy instead of him. I just stopped giving anything to the
'Native American') I tend to dislike folks on their own individual merits
and race just doesn't seem all that relevant to me. I am sure I'd have had
to act differently in a higher level situation.
I have met a lot of really proud people.
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
Twislok wrote in message
<199803300103...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
>"Craig" <sun...@DELETEpacbell.net> Wrote
snip
Craig. Unfortunately I served time in a variety of setting and my experiance
with CO's has been pretty much what I experiance out in the free world.
Kinda
depends where you are "geographically" and I mean that in a most literal
sense.
Even down to neighborhoods in cities as well as job sites in the work
enviorment.
With Prisons, it's becoming more and more a conscription of locals in rural
settings who are holding power of authority over folks who mainly come from
an
urban setting and they both bring with them their natural unfavorable bias
over the other (forget the fact that one has been convicted of a crime) The
circumstances only aggravate that bias. Also, these rural areas have not had
to
deal too much with ehnic and racial and even, in some area, religious
diversity. So even more stress and stereotyping goes on. I must say that
I've
noticed in my travels that more SE asians are appearing in rural areas than
I
had suspected. Not without some stressful readjustment of attitudes there as
well.
Ignorance can generate a lot of fear and then anger and sometimes rage.
These
emotions cut through most well intentioned blueprint type hand me down
orders
from the olks upstairs in the boardrooms.
Thanks for the chance to dialogue (spout off).
MAX
WINGS OF AN ANGEL
http://www.narsh.com.
Twislok
>"Craig" <sun...@DELETEpacbell.net> Wrote
<snip>
> I have heard things about prisons in other states - even other prisons
>in California - I gather there must be quite a diversity in hireing
>standards or something. Then again, the leadership of various prisons and
>police departments might be somewhat reflected in the 'rank and file'.
>
>
Craig. Unfortunately I served time in a variety of setting and my experiance
roa...@usa.com
Chad Wormley wrote:
>
> "Jailhouse Homosexuality" isnt new. As a matter of fact, it is a manufacture of society. Unpermitting male prisoners from having normal sexual activity with their wives, girlfriends or other persons of the opposite sex predicts that Jailhouse Homosexuality will occur. The male of the species is not going to "do without" and society should realize this and compensate. Society is the victim of it's own desires and wishes when it takes upon itself the role of the incarcerator. Read and weep.
>
I disagree. Jailhouse sex/rape is really not necessary if human beings
practice self control. My wife has a cancer and for the past four years
we have not had any sexual relations because of that. I have never
thought of going out on her. Now whats the difference between being in
jail and no sex or in my position, NONE.
If the jail birds need sexual relief they can wait until the lights go
out and play with theirselves for relief. It's only the animals in
prison that take advantage of the weaker ones.
Twislok
>roa...@usa.com wrote
> Now whats the difference between being in
>jail and no sex or in my position, NONE.
>
>
Sorry to hear about the bad news regarding your wife. But, your compassion for
an inmate who cannot hug, touch, speak with someone who he cares for and who
cares for him/her is really not in your situation regarding SEX. I am sure you
did not remove yourself completely from your wife during thast period.
People who try to imagine what being locked up in Jail or Prison and comparing
it to life in the FREE WORLD usually don't have a clue...sorry to say.
RockyMtnAl
>On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Greg Dean wrote
>:>> This is one reason prison guards want executions for at least
>>> half, if not more, of all prisoners.
Heck, wouldn't that be bad for job security for us "can't get a real job,
former fry jocky, ex-puppy pushers?" <g>
Craig
Not to worry. Get tough on crime policies would keep filling the spaces.
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
RockyMtnAl wrote in message
<199803301509...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
Anitlvdats
roadhog wrote:
>If the jail birds need sexual relief they can wait until the lights go
>out and play with theirselves for relief. It's only the animals in
>prison that take advantage of the weaker ones
I am NOT advocating prison rape when I state the following, but I wanted to
make something clear.
At least in California, it is my understanding that the above quoted suggestion
is NOT permitted. There is NO release.
Anitlvdatsi
Twislok
am NOT advocating prison rape when I state the following, but I wanted to
make something clear.
At least in California, it is my understanding that the above quoted suggestion
is NOT permitted. There is NO release.
Anitlvdatsi
Plus you can go blind or at the least not see the keys on the keyboard right
and mkae a lto of tpoys
MAX
Craig
It is government subsidized poop shooting.
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
mik...@westworld.com wrote in message <352869e4...@news.wgn.net>...
>
>
>
>Yet, everyone seems aware of it. You hear late night comedians,
>talkshow hosts, and others making jokes about this. But nobody does
>anything.
>
>It is if the governement is a faggot assfucking Sodomite.
Craig
If they practiced controll???
That is about like saying that if things were different they just
wouldn't be the same.
The folks aren't in prison because they have a great degree of self
controol.
Maybe someone ought to explain your point of view to them, do you think?
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor
roa...@usa.com wrote in message <351F1E...@usa.com>...
>Chad Wormley wrote:
snip
>I disagree. Jailhouse sex/rape is really not necessary if human beings
>practice self control. My wife has a cancer and for the past four years
>we have not had any sexual relations because of that. I have never
>thought of going out on her. Now whats the difference between being in
>jail and no sex or in my position, NONE.
>
>If the jail birds need sexual relief they can wait until the lights go
>out and play with theirselves for relief. It's only the animals in
>prison that take advantage of the weaker ones.
ok
Well mike I have a big problem caring what exactly happens to the
criminal element in the can. You seem to have a big problem with prison
rape did it happen to you?
mik...@westworld.com wrote:
>
> Yet, everyone seems aware of it. You hear late night comedians,
> talkshow hosts, and others making jokes about this. But nobody does
> anything.
>
> It is if the governement is a faggot assfucking Sodomite.
>
> >Blucker's experience was almost unspeakable but hardly exceptional. An
> >organisation called Stop Prisoner Rape cites numerous academic studies to
> >estimate that 300,000 male prisoners are sexually assaulted in the United
> >States every year. That estimateis considered conservative. No one is paying
> >any attention. The general feeling seems to be, in this most retributive of
> >Western societies, that bad guys have to take their medicine; that "you
> >deserve
> >everything you get", as Blucker observed grimly. Noone has ever been
> >criminally
> >charged in the US for raping a male prisoner.
>
> __
> ______._ _ o| _ o._ _ / \ _ __|_ _ ._| _| _ _ ._ _ +++++++++++++++
> | | |||<(/_|| | || (|/\/\/(/__> |_\/\/(_)| |(_|o(_(_)| | | no thinking me.me.me.me.
> _| \__public key at http://www.wgn.net/~mikejm/mikejm.pgp
>
--
˙Ř˙ŕ
Craig
ok seems to be a fellow that can't understand how someone else might
care about anyone but himself.
Seems to even have a bit of contempt for one who might show sign of
caring about anyones problems but his own.
Guess that sort of attitude isn't exclusive to the convicted criminal
element.
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
ok wrote in message <352056...@infoave.net>...
>Well mike I have a big problem caring what exactly happens to the
>criminal element in the can. You seem to have a big problem with prison
>rape did it happen to you?
>
>
snip
Twislok
>k <des...@infoave.net> wrote
I;m not sure what you mean or who you wanted to know if they were raped. Well,
I answered that on the last count of convicts who were raped on this NG and we
got only 3 who reponded affirmatively. I was raped first at 10 in a Reform
schol dormitory. Another time was at 17 in the Chcicago City Jail (Bridewell)
by two guys I had seen murder two patients in the Hospital ward I was working
on.
Did you need to know more? Or do you really not give a shit?
MAX
Wings of an Angel
http://www.narsh.com
Andy Chaplin
On 30 Mar 1998, Anitlvdats wrote:
> roadhog wrote:
>
> >If the jail birds need sexual relief they can wait until the lights go
> >out and play with theirselves for relief. It's only the animals in
> >prison that take advantage of the weaker ones
>
> I am NOT advocating prison rape when I state the following, but I wanted to
> make something clear.
>
> At least in California, it is my understanding that the above quoted suggestion
> is NOT permitted. There is NO release.
>
> Anitlvdatsi
>
>
Hi there Anitlvdatsi
Are you seriously telling me that someone in California has bothered to
outlaw maturbation in prison? That's world class.
Does anyone else know other prison rules - stupid, or just impractical?
I know that in the UK you can be placed on a charge for being beaten up
by other inmates. An inmate was mugged for his tobacco. The warder saw
him being jumped from behind, but the victim was still charged with being
involved in a fight.
Any offers?
Best wishes
Andy
Joseph Drury
ITS CALLED SELF INFLICTED WOUNDS and they do charge you with it
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andy Chaplin <aj...@coventry.ac.uk> wrote in article
<Pine.OSF.3.91.980401134515.23974D-100000@leofric>...
RockyMtnAl
>Does anyone else know other prison rules - stupid, or just impractical?
Stupid, maybe. Impractical, hell yes.
Smoking is now banned inside any state-owned building. There used to be an
exception for areas in which people lived, such as cells. No more. Not a bad
idea, really...health issues, second hand smoke lawsuits, etc. However....
Tobacco is still on the canteen list and possession of tobacco products is
still permitted in most facilities. You just can't smoke except when you're
outside. Problem is, at my facility, you might get 50 minutes a day, all at
once, outside...if you're lucky. So where do you smoke? In your cells.
Another unenforceable rule, IMO. Wouldn't it be better to simply ban tobacco?
Twislok
RULES
A FEW WORDS FROM THE WARDEN
Read Carefully
I have your interest at heart. I will help you if I can. But I cannot help you
unless you
help yourself. By your own acts, your own attitude, your own conduct, and your
own work,
you will make our own record.
If you make a good record it may help you in the future; if your record is not
good it will
stand against you.
Do not allow any other person to get you in trouble. Whether your sentence be
long or short,
you are the one that must serve it.
<snip>
RULE 6. At the sounding of the morning signal, you must turn out, dress, make
up your bed
neatly, and be ready for marching out. At every signal to fall into line for
marching you will take your place in line promptly with your face to the front,
attend to and promptly obey the orders of the officers in charge. (On returning
to
your cell for evening lock-up, remain standing just inside the door until the
count
is made.) Loud and boisterous talking or shouting to adjoining cells is
strictly
prohibited. When the 9:00 PM signal is sounded the lights will be extinguished
and
you will retire; profound silence must be preserved until the morning signal to
rise.
<snip>
RULE 21.If any shall pledge, or solicit, or offer any inducement to a fellow
prisoner to
debase himself, or if he shall make any agreement with a fellow prisoner to the
end
that he may commit an indecent assault or immoral practice upon his person, or
shall
actually commit an indecent assault upon the person of a fellow prisoner, he
shall
lose all privileges and be otherwise punished as the prison officials may
decide.
<snip>
From my website. There are the complete rules from WALA WALA. They are
essentially the same as my "ole days" at Stateville.
Don't these folks have a way with words?
MAX
Craig
At Folsom a CO would occasionally be heard to yell into a cell, "Get
back into your own bunk."
Beyond that I don't think much was enforced about whatever reason
someone might be out of his own bunk.
It wasn't a good idea to allow ones celley to die from anything. That
would call for a roll up to a place of lessor comfort for awhile.
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
Andy Chaplin wrote in message ...
>On 30 Mar 1998, Anitlvdats wrote:
>
>> roadhog wrote:
>>
>> >If the jail birds need sexual relief they can wait until the lights go
>> >out and play with theirselves for relief. It's only the animals in
>> >prison that take advantage of the weaker ones
>>
>> I am NOT advocating prison rape when I state the following, but I wanted
to
>> make something clear.
>>
>> At least in California, it is my understanding that the above quoted
suggestion
>> is NOT permitted. There is NO release.
>>
>> Anitlvdatsi
>>
>>
>Hi there Anitlvdatsi
>
>Are you seriously telling me that someone in California has bothered to
>outlaw maturbation in prison? That's world class.
>
>Does anyone else know other prison rules - stupid, or just impractical?
>
>I know that in the UK you can be placed on a charge for being beaten up
>by other inmates. An inmate was mugged for his tobacco. The warder saw
>him being jumped from behind, but the victim was still charged with being
>involved in a fight.
>
>Any offers?
>
>
>Best wishes
>
>
>Andy
>
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Craig
Twislok wrote in message
<199804011938...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>RULES
>
>A FEW WORDS FROM THE WARDEN
snip
There were sure some times I would have appreciated enforcement of
that"...profound silence...." part.
That wa with words sound as if it'd been written around the turn of the
century. How old is that prison?
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
texasco
Craig wrote:
> At Folsom a CO would occasionally be heard to yell into a cell, "Get
> back into your own bunk." Beyond that I don't think much was enforced about
> whatever reason someone might be out of his own bunk. It wasn't a good idea
> to allow ones celley to die from anything. That would call for a roll up to a
> place of lessor comfort for awhile.
The other day I was walking through a close custody housing area, looked into a
cell and noticed one guy poking it to the other on the TOP BUNK. I hollered
"hey what do you think you're doing?" The guy on top fell completely off the
bunk, hit the floor and had to be taken to medical because he knocked himself
unconscious. You should have heard him try to explain how I was mistaken, that
he was just helping the other guy close his window. Yeah right!!
PJoos5667
RULES for Convicts
1. The warden alway makes the rules.
2. The rules are subject to chagne without notice.
3. No prisoner can possibly know all the rules.
4. If the warden or his designee suspects that prisoners know all the rules,
some or all of the rules must be changed immediately.
5. The warden and his staff are never wrong.
6. If the warden or his staff is wrong, it is because of a flagrant
misunderstanding, which was the direct result of something a convict did
or said wrong.
7. If Rule 6 applies, the prisoner must apologize immediately for causing the
misunderstanding and plead guilty to any write-up, no matter how ludicrous
the allegation, and accept all punishments.
8. The warden and his taff can change his/her mind at any time.
9. The prisoner is never permitted to change his mind without advance, written
consent.
10. The warden and his staff have right to be angry or upset at any time.
11. The convict must always remain calm unless the waren or his staff wants him
to be angry or upset.
12. the convict is required by the warden and his staff to always be ignorant
and worthless, not capable of doing anything right.
13. If a prison escape occurs or if any staff member is having a bad day, all
rules are null and void.
14. Any attempt to document or prove the existance of these rules will result
in laster-gun assault and/or 30 days in the hole.
Source: The Only Voice, Turney Corrections Center, Only, TN.
Craig
Oh no!......... LOL - a lot. Closing his window!!!?? Yes he was.
Well, look what you made him do - do
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
texasco wrote in message <3522F426...@swbell.net>...
snip
Craig
On my first day in prison they gave me a comb.
That afternoon they cut off all my hair.
The next day they gave me a toothbrush
That afternoon they pulled my teeth
The third day they gave me an athletic supporter
That is why I escaped and am still running
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
Len
Well, Andy, do you want to have assaults occur and not have them
documented somehow?
I mean, that would be kool to beat people up and kill them and NOT have
the authorities write it up?
I think not!
Common sense, dude.
Andy Chaplin
On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Len wrote:
> Well, Andy, do you want to have assaults occur and not have them
> documented somehow?
> I mean, that would be kool to beat people up and kill them and NOT have
> the authorities write it up?
> I think not!
> Common sense, dude.
HI there Len
I've no problem with the authorities writing it up, but it seems a bit
strange to charge the victim with an offence. A bit like charging a rape
victim with rape. (or the victim of a mugging with mugging). Sorry, but
that doesn't seem like common sense to me.
Best Wishes
Andy
Jim
Former Inmate <just...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<352af38e.77539000@hydra>...
>
> The rules book from Alcatraz is interesting, but no surprises. Lots of
> official talk that amounts to treating grown men like children.
Grown men that have been convicted of felonies (murder, robbery, theft,
narcotics
ect,ect,ect). Grown men that have a history of NOT following society's
rules.
--
No spam address listed in header
E-Mail: Tur...@prodigy.net
ZCC...@prodigy.com
Ji...@shore.nj.com
Twislok
> <BR>
>> The rules book from Alcatraz is interesting, but no surprises. Lots of<BR>
>> official talk that amounts to treating grown men like children.<BR>
><BR>
>Grown men that have been convicted of felonies (murder, robbery, theft,<BR>
>narcotics<BR>
>ect,ect,ect). Grown men that have a history of NOT following society's<BR>
>rules.<BR>
><BR>
ALL THE TIME..Just thought I'd add that to your statement. Right? I'm sure
that's what you meant. They didn't follow Society's Rules ALL THE TIME.
MAX
POKO wrote that
This stupid rule is there so the non-fighter can return to his unit on a
misconduct and be re-accepted by his peers. If no misconduct - people might
start asking questions. Hey - I gotta write the stupid misconduct only to
have my manager tick off the box that says, "no further action". Trouble
is, it shows on the guy's file as having been placed on misconduct.
POKO
--
Pat Keenan wrote that..
reply taking out NOSPAM
pok...@nospamhuron.net..
have a look at my webpage
www.huron.net/~pokokat
texasco
Andy Chaplin wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Len wrote:
>
> > Well, Andy, do you want to have assaults occur and not have them
> > documented somehow?
> > I mean, that would be kool to beat people up and kill them and NOT have
> > the authorities write it up?
> > I think not!
> > Common sense, dude.
>
> HI there Len
>
> I've no problem with the authorities writing it up, but it seems a bit
> strange to charge the victim with an offence. A bit like charging a rape
> victim with rape. (or the victim of a mugging with mugging). Sorry, but
> that doesn't seem like common sense to me.
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Andy
Remember it takes two to tangle. More often than not what might be conceived as
one inmate jumping the other may in reality be because the one getting jumped
failed to pay off on a debt. Does this not make him equally at fault? No I am
not condoning force as the answer, I am making a point. REALITY CHECK. Prison
is not a perfect world. I have seen men stabbed for 1 - 32 cent stamp. The
inmate that didn't pay up knew what would happen. Quite often an inmate is
jumped merely because of his verbal vomit. Many inmates in prison are there for
violent crimes and have short tempers. You incite them and they go off and will
whip another inmate just because he is there. In TDCJ we do charge each inmate
in a fight with "fighting with an inmate" The inmates have the right to present
evidence and prove that they did not start it or defend themselves. A supervisor
can informally resolve an offense report prior to it getting to a disciplinary
hearing. The Disciplinary Officer can find him not guilty. Just because someone
is charged does not mean he is guilty BUT more often than not if an inmate (or a
person in the freeworld for that matter) is hit, he will defend himself. If he
defends himself he is charged with and usually convicted of the offense.
Your reference to a rape victim not getting charged for rape is rediculous. If a
rape victim turns around and rapes their attacker they are just as guilty as the
attacker. If an inmate defends himself he is guilty as the attacker. I just
don't see a rape victim recipricating!
Twislok
Typical, typical, typical.
..really lame
..wouldn't get the point no matter
about blind spots
.....open your mind and let the fresh air in.
..as someone here has on their website
..god..to think people like this are in charge of convicts at most 17 percent
of the time is a blessing.
Just glad I didn't have this guy as a cell partner
..I would have died of frustration..
..MAX
Twislok
>Granted and understood. Now tell me this, what is gained by telling a<BR>
>grown man, regardless of his past, that he can't sit in the <relative><BR>
>privacy of his cell and beat off? Or that he can't share a pint of ice<BR>
>cream from the commissary with his buddy? <BR>
><BR>
>There are a ton of rules in place that exist for no reason other than<BR>
>so a rule can exist.<BR>
><BR>
>In the Alcatraz rulebook I mentioned, there's a drawing of a cell<BR>
>showing where everything MUST go. Toilet paper on the left, books on<BR>
>the shelf, on the left, no more than four, extra blanket under the<BR>
>bunk, etc, etc. What has that got to do with keeping the person<BR>
>incarcerated and out of trouble?<BR>
><BR>
Control, physical, emotional, mental and spiritual control in order to
manipulate and maintain strict dicipline. These men were feared by the
establisjment to the highest and greatest degree. They were feared bu socoiety
and the guards as well. In order to persuade the guards that they were safe in
their jobs they had to be convinced they had total maximum control over these
men.
This practice continues to lesser and lesser degrees depending on the facility
and those convicts that are being held. Marion Illinois is total lockdown I
here and mainly underground with the strictosy of dicipline and control.
MAX
Twislok
>Now, I guess a CO would say, "Them's just words. Shrug it off." That's<BR>
>real easy to say; a CO gets to go home at the end of the shift. The<BR>
>inamte has to LIVE with those men; image is everything. If I hadn't<BR>
>stood up to that guy right then, right that minute and knocked him on<BR>
>his ass and beat the crap out of him for disrespecting me, I would<BR>
>have become his and everyone else's bitch. Can't fight an entire tank.<BR>
><BR>
>Yes, I threw the first punch. Threw the last one, too.<BR>
><BR>
>
DITTO....10 days
DITTO...15 days
DITTO....15 days
DITTO..10 days
and so it went..but dammit..I manage NOT to KILL anyone. Came close a couple of
times
AMEN
MAX
http://www.narsh.com
WINGS OF AN ANGEL
Andy Chaplin
On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, texasco wrote:
> >
> > HI there Len
> >
> > I've no problem with the authorities writing it up, but it seems a bit
> > strange to charge the victim with an offence. A bit like charging a rape
> > victim with rape. (or the victim of a mugging with mugging). Sorry, but
> > that doesn't seem like common sense to me.
> >
> > Best Wishes
> >
> > Andy
<snip>
> BUT more often than not if an inmate (or a
> person in the freeworld for that matter) is hit, he will defend himself. If he
> defends himself he is charged with and usually convicted of the offense.
>
> Your reference to a rape victim not getting charged for rape is rediculous. If a
> rape victim turns around and rapes their attacker they are just as guilty as the
> attacker. If an inmate defends himself he is guilty as the attacker. I just
> don't see a rape victim recipricating!
>
>
Hi there texasco
I used the rape scenario as an analogy. Sorry, I thought that was pretty
clear. If you are suggesting that an inmate who defends himself from an
attack is as guilty as the attacker, you have a pretty warped sense of
justice. First of all there is the small matter of self-defence, which I
presume is still allowed in the US. Or is the guy supposed to lie there
until you guys pile in to save him? (and then charge him for getting his
ribs broken).
Secondly, you mentioned earlier in your post that the victim is rarely
blameless. Is this like the pretty rape victim who walks home from the
nightclub wearing a short skirt?
I assume you meant that the inmate in your example had caused such
provocation by no returning the stamp that it was ok for the attacker to
do this. Provocation is only a partial defence to a charge. It is not a
justification. If you want to charge the victim with some other offence -
fine. But please don't try to suggest that he is equally to blame.
Ask yourself, if the incident took place in the street, would the victim
be charged?
Thought not.
Best Wishes
Andy
Len
I would imagine cell searches were made easier when "ever thing has a
place and a place for everything" rule was enforced. The bulls could
search a cell and be out of there in a moment, no? Besides, Alcatraz was
not built with the keep-out-of-trouble mentality in mind. It was the end
of the line.
> In the Alcatraz rulebook I mentioned, there's a drawing of a cell
> showing where everything MUST go. Toilet paper on the left, books on
> the shelf, on the left, no more than four, extra blanket under the
> bunk, etc, etc. What has that got to do with keeping the person
ccdrogan
> Granted and understood. Now tell me this, what is gained by telling a
As to the beating off.... I know it happens and hell if I were an inmate I
would too. I tell the inmates that if you are going to do this, be
discrete (meaning the sixth stall rightfully named the "wack shack" or
"motel 6"). As to the sharing of food I have no problem with and I don't
think there is a rule in FL prisons against it.
>
> There are a ton of rules in place that exist for no reason other than
> so a rule can exist.
>
> In the Alcatraz rulebook I mentioned, there's a drawing of a cell
> showing where everything MUST go. Toilet paper on the left, books on
> the shelf, on the left, no more than four, extra blanket under the
> bunk, etc, etc. What has that got to do with keeping the person
> incarcerated and out of trouble?
Actually I think these rules are there so that the CO's can have extra
rules to tighten down on the "jits" or shitty inmates. I also let the
inmates know this. I tell them I get paid the same for doing nothing, or
for making their life hell with all the nit picking rules. They decide how
it is going to be on an individual basis. They want to work with me, they
get no problems, they want to make my job hard. Well I am going to enforce
every single nit picking rule on them.
--
http://members.aol.com/ccdrogan/Tao1.html
Home of the "Taoist Circle Newsletter". If you like philosophy,
jokes, quotes,web site and book reviews, and interesting essays then you
will love the "Taoist Circle". Best of all it is FREE!!!!
>
>
ccdrogan
> .....open your mind and let the fresh air in.
>
> ..as someone here has on their website
Now, Now, if you are going to quote my website, make sure you get it
right. "Open your mind, I am sure it could use the fresh air." This and
many other wonderful quotes and information can be read at
http://members.aol.com/ccdrogan/Tao1.html
ccdrogan
> If I hadn't
> stood up to that guy right then, right that minute and knocked him on
>
I don't blame you not one bit. I would have done the same. But the
officer has no choice but to write all parties involved up, that is just
how it is.
ccdrogan
> Hi there texasco
>
> I used the rape scenario as an analogy. Sorry, I thought that was pretty
> clear. If you are suggesting that an inmate who defends himself from an
> attack is as guilty as the attacker, you have a pretty warped sense of
> justice. First of all there is the small matter of self-defence, which I
> presume is still allowed in the US. Or is the guy supposed to lie there
> until you guys pile in to save him? (and then charge him for getting his
> ribs broken).
At the institute I work at if you fight, you both go. That is just a
fact. But during the DR hearing if blame or self defense can be proven
then often only the attacker gets time.
Andy Chaplin
On 4 Apr 1998, ccdrogan wrote:
>
> At the institute I work at if you fight, you both go. That is just a
> fact. But during the DR hearing if blame or self defense can be proven
> then often only the attacker gets time.
> --
Hi there cc
This illustrates the problem with the report system in prison. The
prisoner has to prove his blamelessness. It's a pity that the same
standards don't apply as would in a court of law - that the onus was on
the prosecution to prove the case.
This also places the onus on the prisoner to grass up his assailant. I
presume that grasses are as popular in US prisons as they are in those in
the UK. What is the problem with an officer seeing an attack on an
inmate and reporting it as such, rather than hauling them both in front
of the Governor?
Of course, if the prisoners had access to adequate defence representation,
it might help matters, but that is apparently not necessary, because the
Governor is there to see fair play.
Quote attributed to a senior Governor in a British jail during an
ajudication:
'Look sonny, if one of my officers says you were riding a motorbike up
and down the fourth-floor landing, my only question to you is, where did
you fill it up with petrol?'
The problem with this and all the other ridiculous prison rules is that
it turns prisoners out through the gate thinking that the 'system' is
unfair. It's not much of an incentive to start respecting the system is it?
Best Wishes
Andy
Twislok
>There are<BR>
>shitty inmates, and there are shitty CO's. Admittedly more of the<BR>
>former than the latter.<BR>
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
What about the "rate" per population. <grin>
MAX
Twislok
What is the problem with an officer seeing an attack on an
inmate and reporting it as such, rather than hauling them both in front
of the Governor?
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
I side with the CO's on this. The last thing I wanted in the joint was to have
a CO show un even treatment toward me. I have to see/live with a CO max 17
percent of the time. I am with my fellow convicts 100 percent of the time. The
CO had better treat them both equally or the favored con will answer to harsher
judges and judgement..his fellow cons who everyone knows..cons run the joint.
The CO's count, give orders and go home...
MAX
WINGS OF AN ANGEL
http://www.narsh.com
Twislok
When rules are used in a capricious manner (as in my case
above), it's abuse of the system.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Sorry, it's not an abuse of the system..It IS THE SYSTEM. You are there to
learn you are lower than whale shit and if you even look like you don't believe
it THEY will show you by screwing with your mind, your body, your soul and your
spirit. If you don't come out of prison a broken person, and unable to make it
on the outside they failed to prove how superior they are to you.
That's why they say with their shit eating grins when you leave :You'll be
back" cause they believe it and have done all they could to prove their belief
to be correct.
God am I glad that I finally proved them wrong and I wish more were able to do
so. But with what you've read on this NG by some CO's Guards Screws Coppers
whatever. You know how hard it is.
God it's hard but some like me and a few more I know who still can't come out
of the closet have made it.
MAX
Craig
texasco wrote in message <35256B7B...@swbell.net>...
snip
>
>Your reference to a rape victim not getting charged for rape is rediculous.
If a
>rape victim turns around and rapes their attacker they are just as guilty
as the
>attacker. If an inmate defends himself he is guilty as the attacker. I
just
>don't see a rape victim recipricating!
>
Defending from attack makes on guilty as the attacker?
I'm having a hell of a time with that one.
Returning rape for rape is a whole different idea than can be compared
to defending ones self from being attacked by being hit or to be attacked by
being raped.
I just can't work that one out, as you stated it.
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
Craig
In leaving prison there was some cynical snot remark of,"You'll be
back." I'd suppose that to anyoneone that returned he could claim that his
point was proven. He was unlikely to meet anyone he was wrong about, so I
imagine he could continue in smug self satifaction.
Some just wished good luck.
Most just went through the motions of doing their jobs.
I was just im medium and minimum security and didn't have any special
problems with inmates or COs to speak of.
I do find i just want to stay home and not go anywhere. The thought of
trying to apply for a job and having to confront anyone about job or some
social services just throws me into a state of anxiety. It has taken me some
months to realize that I may have some lasting problems over the whole
experience. - Though my problems seem rather minor compared to what I have
some little awareness of others.
I've seen rules that seemed to be without purpose. I saw much the same
in the military of rules for the sake of rules. It seemed that someone might
have had some such in mind in making some prison rules. Some are for
maintainence of order and some seem that someone forgot that the inmates
aren't being trained to become a follow-orders-fighting-machine.
When I was in minimum security camp and somewhat close to the cop I had
opportunity to view their attitudes somewhat more than the ones who contact
was mostly of their locking and unlocking the door.
In building five of Folsom the cells have an iron door with some holes
drilled in it. When Folsom was maximum security building fove was a more
high security area. Now it is a bit more priveledged area. The doors make
for it being quieter than where there are five tiers of bars.
On arrival to building five the cop would tell of some rules that they
didn't bother to enforce. There were rules they enforced and some they
threatened to enforce and never got around to. Some cops would enforce some
rules that others didn't seem to think worth the bother. Some cops
appearantly hated our guts and others were quite frendly and most just did
their jobs.
As for the system being designed to beat someone down?? I don't know
about that. I think that the whole thing is a mish mash of ideas that
various administrations have had over time. Some have made rules and
policies with beating down in mind, perhaps, and others have tried doing
something that made sense. It seemed the me there were somevestiges of
anacronistic polices and of halfhearted attempts at some more progerssive
policies. - Seemed that whatever current warden was into putting out new
directives on occasion that were results of whatever way some current
political wind was blowing. - Or maybe just changing something to appear to
be doing a job??
As for having made it: Some years ago I told some folks that I'd decided
what I wanted on my stone. - Name and when born and when died and big
letters "I MADE IT!"
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
Twislok wrote in message
snip
Craig
Not much related but some of the posts reminded me of a Highway
Patrollman that offedred to write me a fixit ticket for not having a mirror
on my motorcycle. He said that if he gave me that I would have fifteen days
of safety of getting a ticket from some city cop that might cost me some
money. - Thought that damned decent of him. Never had a cop offer me choice
if I wanted a ticket.
********************************************************************
Pride precludes honor.
POKO wrote that wrote in message <6g3ln1$cp6$1...@nntp2.uunet.ca>...
Twislok
just...@hotmail.com (Former Inmate wrote
>BTW: six years on the 17th<BR>
>problem-free after ten years in stir. Looks like I'm winning the game<BR>
>by their own rules.<BR>
><BR>
Great post and congratulations..you desrve it..keep up the good work
MAX
POKO wrote that
Dont forget that Alcatraz housed America's worst. Any and all were probably
hatching escape plans. What better way to ensure contraband not being in
cells if every object has a place ! (this kind of contradicts the below
statement about keeping Joe Blow incarcerated and out of trouble) That was
then - this is now.. Nowadays, Joe Blow can put his stereo and TV anywhere
there's room.
There is a link to Alcatraz on my site below. You can send someone a
postcard with a prison motif by going to "Prison Postcards" at
www.law.cam.ac.uk/users/dep21/postcard.htm - has a nice pic of Alcatraz and
many other things.
POKO
--
Pat Keenan wrote that..
reply taking out NOSPAM
pok...@nospamhuron.net..
have a look at my webpage
www.huron.net/~pokokat
.
>
>A lot of rules, probably the majority of them, have good reasoning
>behind them and belong in place. That's cool; it comes with the
>territory
kdaly
Andy Chaplin wrote:
> On 4 Apr 1998, ccdrogan wrote:
>
> >
> > At the institute I work at if you fight, you both go. That is just a
> > fact. But during the DR hearing if blame or self defense can be proven
> > then often only the attacker gets time.
> > --
>
> Hi there cc
>
> This illustrates the problem with the report system in prison. The
> prisoner has to prove his blamelessness. It's a pity that the same
> standards don't apply as would in a court of law - that the onus was on
> the prosecution to prove the case.
>
> This also places the onus on the prisoner to grass up his assailant. I
> presume that grasses are as popular in US prisons as they are in those in
> the UK. What is the problem with an officer seeing an attack on an
> inmate and reporting it as such, rather than hauling them both in front
> of the Governor?
>
> Of course, if the prisoners had access to adequate defence representation,
> it might help matters, but that is apparently not necessary, because the
> Governor is there to see fair play.
>
> Quote attributed to a senior Governor in a British jail during an
> ajudication:
>
> 'Look sonny, if one of my officers says you were riding a motorbike up
> and down the fourth-floor landing, my only question to you is, where did
> you fill it up with petrol?'
>
> The problem with this and all the other ridiculous prison rules is that
> it turns prisoners out through the gate thinking that the 'system' is
> unfair. It's not much of an incentive to start respecting the system is it?
>
> Best Wishes
>
> Andy
I think another point here that no one has addressed is discretion, it is at
the officers discretion who gets written up. I have never yet in my jails (worked
in 3) heard of a crook being charged for being beaten up. We do an investigation,
if the assaulted prisoner wants to lay a charge then the charge is laid. If the
assaulted doesnt want to lay a charge (lag his assaulter) then it is left up to
him, although I will admit there is an increased amount of officer surveillance
upon that person, in the hope that assaulter will make another move and we can
get him. We too have ridiculous rules, for example a prisoner is not allowed to
give anything to another prisoner that is trafficking. So not clothing, canteen
items, cigs etc, but come on if an officer was going to write up every
infringment of the rules then he/she would be writeing from dawn til dusk. I
would tell my crooks at the start of the shift, ok you lot we dont want no shit
today, I hate writing reports. I worked in prisons for 9 years. I wrote 15
reports, that turned to charges none of them was trivial. If I had of written up
every breach of the rules, the copies would never fit in my file cabinet.
Twislok
I can say that the tenyears in the joint, although in some ways a decade
wasted, also taughtme a lot of things I really needed to learn.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
That's for sure. One of them is compassion for those less fortunate
economically, intellectually, culturally and physically.
Strange the CO's don't seem to get those same benefits...(for the most part, I
must add)....from at least observing the experiances.
Andy Chaplin
On 4 Apr 1998, Twislok wrote:
>
> What is the problem with an officer seeing an attack on an
> inmate and reporting it as such, rather than hauling them both in front
> of the Governor?
>
> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
> I side with the CO's on this. The last thing I wanted in the joint was to have
> a CO show un even treatment toward me. I have to see/live with a CO max 17
> percent of the time. I am with my fellow convicts 100 percent of the time. The
> CO had better treat them both equally or the favored con will answer to harsher
> judges and judgement..his fellow cons who everyone knows..cons run the joint.
> The CO's count, give orders and go home...
>
Hi there Max
I recognise what you are saying as being true (in the States, anyway),
and I know that there are situations where it would be impossible for the
prison officer to know who was responsible, but where it is clear cut, I
think there should be a responsibility placed on the officer to represent
the matter fairly. I don't think it's being uneven to absolve me of
guilt when I'm coshed over the back of the head. I'm pretty sure that
most cons (in the UK) would have no problem with that. Most cons would
feel that being charged for being assaulted was unfair, and I think that
fairness is more important that evenness. This also encompasses things
like collective punishment. One con abuses the system, so all cons lose
out on the privilege.
I think the main difference comes from the degree of control that the
prison officers have in their respective prisons. It's something of a
myth that cons control prisons in the UK. I'd add that it's a myth that
both sides like to subscribe to, as it helps award the cons some feeling
of control. There's more scope for the British prison service to move
disruptive or influential prisoners round the system, and as a result
their control of individual establishments is that much greater.
Best Wishes
Andy
Andy Chaplin
On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Former Inmate wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Apr 1998 12:29:55 -0600 , Andy Chaplin <aj...@coventry.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >This also places the onus on the prisoner to grass up his assailant. I
> >presume that grasses are as popular in US prisons as they are in those in
> >the UK. What is the problem with an officer seeing an attack on an
> >inmate and reporting it as such, rather than hauling them both in front
> >of the Governor?
>
> A language gap the size of the Atlantic. What do you mean by "grass
> up"?
Hi there Former Inmate
grassing up is informing. It comes from the phrase 'snake in the grass',
though I've no idea where that originates.
Best Wishes
Andy
Andy Chaplin
On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, kdaly wrote:
>
> I think another point here that no one has addressed is discretion, it is at
> the officers discretion who gets written up. I have never yet in my jails (worked
> in 3) heard of a crook being charged for being beaten up. We do an investigation,
> if the assaulted prisoner wants to lay a charge then the charge is laid.
Hi there kdaly
Discretion is important, and the best officers use it well. The point
you make about 'if the assaulted prisoner wants to lay a charge' is
important. This puts a lot of pressure on the prisoner. If the staff
want to say that they're in charge then surely it shouldn't matter what
the prisoner wants if the officer has seen an offence. It should be up
to the officer whether it is reported or not. (not the prisoner).
> If the
> assaulted doesnt want to lay a charge (lag his assaulter) then it is left up to
> him, although I will admit there is an increased amount of officer surveillance
> upon that person, in the hope that assaulter will make another move and we can
> get him.
This is a good policy and is broadly similar to what theoretically
happens in the UK.
> We too have ridiculous rules, for example a prisoner is not allowed to
> give anything to another prisoner that is trafficking.
Love this rule. It's the same in the UK. You can't even lend another
inmate something. I can't say I've ever heard of it being used, though
I'm sure someone can prove me wrong on this.
> So not clothing, canteen
> items, cigs etc, but come on if an officer was going to write up every
> infringment of the rules then he/she would be writeing from dawn til dusk. I
> would tell my crooks at the start of the shift, ok you lot we dont want no shit
> today, I hate writing reports. I worked in prisons for 9 years. I wrote 15
> reports, that turned to charges none of them was trivial. If I had of written up
> every breach of the rules, the copies would never fit in my file cabinet.
>
It sounds like you had good control (and a good reputation). I knew of an
officer who had completely the opposite approach. He reported everything.
Funnily enough, he was respected by the cons, because they knew where they
stood with him, but most of all because he was quite prepared to report an
officer if he saw him breaking the rules. Given that he worked in a
maximum security prison, Long Lartin, it was quite odd to see that the
most awkward officer on the staff was more liked by the cons than by the
staff.
Best Wishes
Andy
Andy Chaplin
On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, kdaly wrote:
>
> Sorry Andy if you missed my point I didn't explain it very well, I meant in the
> situation of a prisoner being assaulted without being witnessed by an officer. If
> however an officer did witness an assault then the officer would most certainly write
> the report, however it would still be the assaulter not the assaulted who was charged.
> In the event of an assault taking place not witnessed by an officer then an
> investigation would take place and it would be required by the assaulted party to press
> a charge, If however the assaulted did not want to lay a charge the matter would be
> left alone.
Hi there kdaly
My mistake. I see what you mean. I'm still concerned that a number of
staff know full well that a prisoner will not press a charge against
another prisoner, and use that fact to aviod paperwork when the officer
has seen everything. If he (or she) hasn't seen the whole incident, it
is a different problem altogether, and I thought that your solution
posted earlier was very sensible.
Best Wishes
Andy
Twislok
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
>That's for sure. One of them is compassion for those less fortunate
>economically, intellectually, culturally and physically.
>
>Strange the CO's don't seem to get those same benefits...(for the most part, I
>must add)....from at least observing the experiances.
>
How many psychiatrists does it take to change a lightbulb?
Only one, but the lightbulb has to WANT to change.
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Why would a light bulb "want to change" when the "electrician McRae" has said
you can't. It is a waste of time. Don't even ask you dumb fuck scum bag light
bulb. You're out and forget calling in any "liberal" psychiatrist. The
elctrician knows the truth you lights are out permanently ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha And the elctrician has a job for life putting more lights out ha ha h a ha
ha ha ha
MAX
Bill
ccdrogan writes:
>At the institute I work at if you fight, you both go.
Same where I work at.
>But during the DR hearing if blame or self defense
>can be proven then often only the attacker gets
>time.
The only way self defense works is if the inmate does not retaliate at
all. Not too often that this occurs. Most often the aggressor gets 90
days and the other will draw 30. Is it fair? Not always but when you
don't see a fight start, you have to assume both are responsible.
Bill
*************************************************
"Nearly everyone will lie to you given the right circumstances." Bill
Clinton, Time
*************************************************
Bill
Andy Chaplin writes:
>What is the problem with an officer seeing an attack
>on a inmate and reporting it as such,....
No problem at all Andy. Had the opportunity to observe the start of a
fight on a housing unit. The aggressor walked up to another inmate and
sucker punched him, in front of myself and a sergeant. The agressors
motivation? The other inmate was due to parole in two days and he was
setting him up. The other inmate was smart though, he never threw a
punch, and that is what I wrote in my misconduct report. They both went
to the RHU, as is policy in a fight, and he spent that night locked up,
had a hearing the next day and was released, and paroled the next day.
As a personal policy, I write what I see and not what I want to,
although I admit there are times it is tempting.
Bill
Max writes:
>That's why they say with their shit eating grins when
>you leave: "You'll be back" cause they believe it....
Actually Max, I have had a few that I have said that to. So far, sad to
say they have not disapponted me.
I do however, have no problem telling an inmate who is maxing out or
getting parole that I hope I don't ever see them again. Had a few I was
honestly glad got out as they probably should not have done state time
to start with.
POKO wrote that
Judging from all of Don's news, Eden was probably somewhere in Ohio.
in the garden,
POKO
--
Pat Keenan wrote that..
reply taking out NOSPAM
pok...@nospamhuron.net..
have a look at my webpage
www.huron.net/~pokokat
>"Snake in the grass" alludes to the serpent in Paradise that induced
>Eve to eat the apple.
>
kdaly
Andy Chaplin wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, kdaly wrote:
> >
> > I think another point here that no one has addressed is discretion, it is at
> > the officers discretion who gets written up. I have never yet in my jails (worked
> > in 3) heard of a crook being charged for being beaten up. We do an investigation,
> > if the assaulted prisoner wants to lay a charge then the charge is laid.
>
>
Sorry Andy if you missed my point I didn't explain it very well, I meant in the
situation of a prisoner being assaulted without being witnessed by an officer. If
however an officer did witness an assault then the officer would most certainly write
the report, however it would still be the assaulter not the assaulted who was charged.
In the event of an assault taking place not witnessed by an officer then an
investigation would take place and it would be required by the assaulted party to press
a charge, If however the assaulted did not want to lay a charge the matter would be
left alone.
>
>
B. Allen
What has that got to do with keeping the person<BR>
> >incarcerated and out of trouble?<BR>
> ><BR>
> Control, physical, emotional, mental and spiritual control in order to
> manipulate and maintain strict dicipline. These men were feared by the
> establisjment to the highest and greatest degree. They were feared bu socoiety
> and the guards as well. In order to persuade the guards that they were safe in
> their jobs they had to be convinced they had total maximum control over these
> men.
>
> This practice continues to lesser and lesser degrees depending on the facility
> and those convicts that are being held. Marion Illinois is total lockdown I
> here and mainly underground with the strictosy of dicipline and control.
>
> MAX
I think you are almost right. There are many prison guards who love their job for just one reason. They crave
control over other people. That they can control "bad" people--all the better. But they don't need the
control to make them feel safe. They need the control to make themselves feel good. I think that a minority
of the men prison guards fall into this category but a majority of the women guards do.
kdaly
>
>
> I think you are almost right. There are many prison guards who love their job for just one reason. They crave
> control over other people.
Far from it most prison officers join to help people however they are quickly indoctrinated into a system, which
forces down their throats that they are there to keep control, everything else becomes secondary.
> That they can control "bad" people--all the better. But they don't need the
> control to make them feel safe. They need the control to make themselves feel good.
Some do have this attitude especially officers who can beat up on crooks because wearing a uniform allows them to
do it with almost total immunity.
> I think that a minority
> of the men prison guards fall into this category but a majority of the women guards do.
This is the biggest load of sexist bullshit I have heard in a long time. What would you know about what women
officers have to go through in a prison environment?
For a start women officers are handicapped the minute they apply for the job, they are outrnumbered 4 to 1 and that
is just counting male officers not prisoners. They are not wanted there by a large percentage of their male
counterparts.
There has long been an established policy of giving women officers a really hard time in basic and their first few
months in the job to weed them out, to get rid of the weak ones, bastardisation in other words.
If they do the job properly then they've got balls and they get off on controlling the bad guys, if they dont do
the job well, then what can you expect they are only weak women anyway!
If they get a promotion then they must have slept with someone to get it, because no body recognises that just
maybe some women officers are as good as if not better than males. If she goes for promotion and fails then what
can you expect from a stupid woman anyway should have know better than to go for it.
If a woman is compassionate toward a prisoner then she is just a soppy bitch, crim lover, probably has the hots
for him. If she dosnt feel compassion then she is just a hard bitch who is probably a butch dyke manhater anyway.
If a female officer gets involved with a crook then all female officers are sluts.
Most women I have worked with have felt the same as I do we are there to do a job the same as the men and we do the
job to the best of our ability, if it so happens that we succeed at the job, then we have the kind of comment that
you have made thrown at us.
I have never felt that I need to feel good about myself because I was able to control some people, but you want to
know when I felt good about myself, when a man was leaving to be released and he would say, thanx for all your help
Miss D, I'm glad that you were here. Or when a man in a visit would introduce me to his loved ones and say this
is Miss D, shes ok, or when a prisoner would seek me out and say Miss D, I have some problems but I cant talk to
anyone else but you cause I know you wont hang it on me. Thats when I felt good about myself. Because I'd done the
job I was paid to do. And if it happens that women have to be harder, smarter, tougher and more reilient than her
male counterpart it is because of the system and because of its inbuilt bias toward her as a woman not because she
gets off on the power.
Twislok
<Le...@access.net.au>
wrote
<snip>
And if it happens that women have to be harder, smarter, tougher and more
reilient than her
male counterpart it is because of the system and because of its inbuilt bias
toward her as a woman not because she
gets off on the power.
>
Great post . When I read that comment of his I tried to get out of the way
cause I knew you'd be flying in here and I don't blame you.
as for his other comments he was pretty much on the mark and I think you
agreed....Hey, no body's perfect. Just remember most of us guys learned this
shi from our Moms.,,,,eh? They were our first teachers about male/female crap.
-----------------------------------------------------
MAX
WINGS OF AN ANGEL
http://www.narsh.com
------------------------------------------------------
Wings Bookstore
http://www.narsh.com/bookstore.htm
or
http://www.members.aol.com/dnarsh/bkstr.htm
-----------------------------------------------------
Book of the Week 4/5/98
Official Negligence: How Rodney King and the Riots Changed Los Angeles and the
L. A. P. D.
----------------------------------------------------
Better to light one candle than curse the darkness
-----------------------------------------------------
kdaly
You have got to know me well already LOL, I do agree with some of what he said but
not all and as far as the shit we learn from our mum's who learned from their
mum's, who learned from their mum's, ultimately the shit comes from men who
consider women not good enough to have an opinion, or to be involved in the
important decisions, or to weak to defend themselves and yet we leave our most
valuable resources solely in their hands!! Our children, we are good enough to
rock the cradle but not good enough to rock the world, aint life grand!
When it is all said and done more is said than done. Anon
Andy Chaplin
Hi there kdaly
A top posting on the problems faced by women officers in prisons. I've
also seen the hostility shown by male officers to their female
counterparts. (and the ratio of women to men is much lower in the UK -
in some prisons it's more like 25/1)
When female officers were introduced into male prisons in the UK, it was
because management thought that female staff would help to take the
tension out out the atmosphere inside. There was enormous resistance to
this from the prison officers union (one of the last of the dinosaurs of
trade unionism). Management were proved right, but there is still a vast
body of resentment towards the female staff.
It is commonplace for male staff to spread rumours about their female
colleagues, lie about having slept with them, and even set up dangerous
situations with inmates so that they can 'restore' order. A female
officer was quoted in a magazine article as saying, 'I would rather be
locked in a cell with three murderers than three male prison officers.'
I think in many ways the female staff have better control over the
inmates because they project a personality rather than a macho image.
The best of the male staff do this as well. It's also fair to say that
even the dumbest prisoner knows that if he so much as lays a finger on on
a female member of staff, he is going to get truly hammered.
Anyway, once again, a top posting.
Best Wishes
Andy
David K
POKO wrote that wrote in message <6g3ln1$cp6$1...@nntp2.uunet.ca>...
>This stupid rule is there so the non-fighter can return to his unit on a
>misconduct and be re-accepted by his peers. If no misconduct - people might
>start asking questions. Hey - I gotta write the stupid misconduct only to
>have my manager tick off the box that says, "no further action". Trouble
>is, it shows on the guy's file as having been placed on misconduct.
>POKO
>
Hows this for a STUPID rule: My wife was being threatened by her cellmate
and she reported these threats to the guards for a solid week prior to being
attacked. When she was attacked, during count, she didn't fight back and was
scarred as a result. She got the exact same time in the hole as her attacker
because she disturbed the count, now if that isn't one of the most stupid
abuses of power I don't know what is.As I said she's in the hole during
EASTER no less for disturbing count when she was the VICTIM of an assault.
This shows a NAZI mentality from the guards, not all though!!, and is why I
and a lot of others HATE all authority since you have a better chance of
getting a fair deal from the devil. David K.
kdaly
Andy Chaplin wrote:
> Hi there kdaly
>
> A top posting on the problems faced by women officers in prisons. I've
> also seen the hostility shown by male officers to their female
> counterparts. (and the ratio of women to men is much lower in the UK -
> in some prisons it's more like 25/1)
Well we have a system of ratio in Vic 4 to 1 is the set ratio
> When female officers were introduced into male prisons in the UK, it was
> because management thought that female staff would help to take the
> tension out out the atmosphere inside.
Well that seems to be the idea, female officers were supposed to humanise
prisons, to expose prisoners to a more compassionate kind of management a
less unnatural environment.
> There was enormous resistance to
> this from the prison officers union (one of the last of the dinosaurs of
> trade unionism).
Same here, the biggest protest was prisoner modesty and I wholeheartedly
agree, wherever possible if a prisoner was to be stripsearched then it must
be conducted by two officers, of the same sex as the prisoner, if however
male officers were not present then in the interests of security a search
could be conducted by a females on a male but only then with the prisoners
consent, which is fair enough. However male officers took this as proof that
women could not do the job affectively. In 9 years I was put in the position
twice of having to search a male prisoner both times with his consent, and
both times with a minimum of fuss so as to maintain his dignity and modesty.
People don't understand the concept of look but not see.
The thing that amused me most was not being allowed to stripsearch prisoners,
but being expected to pat down search prisoners which any officer knows, to
do a thorough pat down search is pretty bloody intimate.
> Management were proved right, but there is still a vast
> body of resentment towards the female staff.
Still is here to
> It is commonplace for male staff to spread rumours about their female
> colleagues, lie about having slept with them,
Well I reckon if I had of slept with as many officers, prisoners, civilian
staff, Governors (both male and female) that I was accused of, then I would
never have had any time for work and besides I would have at least got a
promotion surely. LOL
> and even set up dangerous
> situations with inmates so that they can 'restore' order.
Tell me about it, a fellow female officer and I nearly got killed in that
situation. We have a fighting struggling crook with 60 crooks looking on
inciting each other, to get us, and half a dozen male officers standing on
the top of tier looking down on us, who only bothered to help when the
security squad arrived, we got blasted the next day for letting the situation
get out of hand and for putting our fellow officers lives in danger because
they had to come to our rescue. To tell the truth it was a male officer who
stirred the crooks up and when the fur flew bolted to the office and locked
himself in. I still owe that bastard.
> A female
> officer was quoted in a magazine article as saying, 'I would rather be
> locked in a cell with three murderers than three male prison officers.'
6 murderers, 10 murderers any amount rather than 3 male chauvenistic officers
> I think in many ways the female staff have better control over the
> inmates because they project a personality rather than a macho image.
> The best of the male staff do this as well.
Not all females, some are what B Allan described but not the majority, I can
remember younger crooks telling me they wished I was their mum, then they'd
never have got into trouble, didnt have the heart to tell them my own son
thinks I'm a bitch LOL.
> It's also fair to say that
> even the dumbest prisoner knows that if he so much as lays a finger on on
> a female member of staff, he is going to get truly hammered.
Unfortuate call that one, I think that most gentlemen are reluctant to hit a
woman and although these men were crooks and have done bad things a lot have
good hearts and wouldnt hit a woman anyway. And the few that would, yeah you
are right they would get hammered, but then I think they would get hammered
for belting an officer full stop. I have known of a crook who belted another
crook because in the midst of a wing ding a female officer got hurt, we didnt
know who did it or who paid back but we know it was another crook.
Kelly
Kelly
Kelly
ccdrogan
David K <dav...@avana.net> wrote in article <352c5...@news.avana.net>...
>
> POKO wrote that wrote in message <6g3ln1$cp6$1...@nntp2.uunet.ca>...
> >This stupid rule is there so the non-fighter can return to his unit on a
> >misconduct and be re-accepted by his peers. If no misconduct - people
might
> >start asking questions. Hey - I gotta write the stupid misconduct only
to
> >have my manager tick off the box that says, "no further action".
Trouble
> >is, it shows on the guy's file as having been placed on misconduct.
> >POKO
> >
> Hows this for a STUPID rule: My wife was being threatened by her cellmate
> and she reported these threats to the guards for a solid week prior to
being
> attacked. When she was attacked, during count, she didn't fight back and
was
> scarred as a result. She got the exact same time in the hole as her
attacker
> because she disturbed the count, now if that isn't one of the most stupid
> abuses of power I don't know what is.As I said she's in the hole during
> EASTER no less for disturbing count when she was the VICTIM of an
assault.
> This shows a NAZI mentality from the guards, not all though!!,
Thank you for that "not all though" part.
>and is why I
> and a lot of others HATE all authority since you have a better chance of
> getting a fair deal from the devil. David K.
Don't hate ALL authority, just the idiots that do the unfair crap.
Remember "not all though" so don't hate all of them.
--
http://members.aol.com/ccdrogan/Tao1.html
Home of the "Taoist Circle Newsletter". If you like philosophy,
jokes, quotes,web site and book reviews, and interesting essays then you
will love the "Taoist Circle". Best of all it is FREE!!!!
>
>
>
ccdrogan
--
http://members.aol.com/ccdrogan/Tao1.html
Home of the "Taoist Circle Newsletter". If you like philosophy,
jokes, quotes,web site and book reviews, and interesting essays then you
will love the "Taoist Circle". Best of all it is FREE!!!!
Kelly <shyb...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<6gilqv$dg9$1...@newsd-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
> Hi Andy....My other half is in Fed. Prison in PA.....Yes, it is a
> punishable (or priviledge taker ) to be caught masturbating.....To bad
> they don't punish the guards involved or allowing rapes.....
>
ccdrogan
Kelly <shyb...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<6gilqv$dg9$1...@newsd-142.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
> Hi Andy....My other half is in Fed. Prison in PA.....Yes, it is a
> punishable (or priviledge taker ) to be caught masturbating.....To bad
> they don't punish the guards involved or allowing rapes....
Kelly,
This is your third post I have read, and all three don't show up when I
first click on them. To read them I have to click on the respond to post
option and see it in the quoted form. When I try to read it like any other
post it just comes up with a blank screen. Perhaps you know or someone
else knows what is going on with your posts or my reader. Just thought I
would let you know so something could be done.
Bill
Kelly writes:
>My other half is in Fed. prison in PA...
Which facility is he in.
>Yes, it is a punishable (or priviledge taker) to be
>caught masterbating....
Maybe in the Fed. facilities, but not PA state facilities. If it's
yours, you can play with it, just as long as you don't wave it at staff
or other inmtes. If it's your cellies and you are playing with it, then
you are wrong.
>To bad they don"t punish the guards involved or
>allowing rapes....
How does one masterbating equate to allowing rapes to occur?
Bill
ccdrogan writes:
>Perhaps you know or someone else knows what
>is going on with your posts....
CC,
Kelly has an HTML background set up. It is a thing webtvers like to
do, (I have it on another addy), and it plays havic with alot of pc
readers. I even had the misfortune to cause a friends pc to crash after
it locked on my background. Hope this helps straighten it out a little.
Roger Woods
For those who want the real skinny on prison rape see:
It ain't pretty.
>
> Chad Wormley wrote:
> >
> > "Jailhouse Homosexuality" isnt new. As a matter of fact, it is a manufacture of society. Unpermitting male prisoners from having normal sexual activity with their wives, girlfriends or other persons of the opposite sex predicts that Jailhouse Homosexuality will occur. The male of the species is not going to "do without" and society should realize this and compensate. Society is the victim of it's own desires and wishes when it takes upon itself the role of the incarcerator. Read and weep.
> >
> I disagree. Jailhouse sex/rape is really not necessary if human beings
> practice self control. My wife has a cancer and for the past four years
> we have not had any sexual relations because of that. I have never
> thought of going out on her. Now whats the difference between being in
> jail and no sex or in my position, NONE.
>
> If the jail birds need sexual relief they can wait until the lights go
> out and play with theirselves for relief. It's only the animals in
> prison that take advantage of the weaker ones.
--
Roger Woods J.C.
Legal Consultant
To reply remove the "NOSPAM" from my email address.
The opinions expressed here may be considered legal
advice only if your certified check-- payable in
gold to my secret Swiss bank account-- is in the mail,
postage prepaid.
Roger Woods
I used to sit on a toilet set in Leavenworth "reading" a Playboy when
the guard came by for the 4 PM count. What was he going to do? Stop in
front of my cell and ask me if it was soft or hard? I'd of asked him:
"You mean the toilet, Officer?"
Anitlvdats wrote:
>
> roadhog wrote:
>
> >If the jail birds need sexual relief they can wait until the lights go
> >out and play with theirselves for relief. It's only the animals in
> >prison that take advantage of the weaker ones
>
> I am NOT advocating prison rape when I state the following, but I wanted to
> make something clear.
>
> At least in California, it is my understanding that the above quoted suggestion
> is NOT permitted. There is NO release.
>
> Anitlvdatsi
Roger Woods
Some of the hacks in Leavenworth were dumb, but even they recognized
when some dude got jumped from behind.
Andy Chaplin wrote:
>
> I know that in the UK you can be placed on a charge for being beaten up
> by other inmates. An inmate was mugged for his tobacco. The warder saw
> him being jumped from behind, but the victim was still charged with being
> involved in a fight.
Roger Woods
Max,
Gotta give 'em one thing. At least they knew how to clearly express
themselves during those days. And spell corekktly! Hmmm... where the
hell is the spell checker? It got sold down the river? Darn!
Twislok wrote:
>
> RULES
>
> A FEW WORDS FROM THE WARDEN
>
> Read Carefully
>
> I have your interest at heart. I will help you if I can. But I cannot help you
> unless you
Roger Woods
Hey, PJoos!
How the hell did you get dem dere rules. Dey is the secret rules of
Leavenworth when I was there and they was locked up in the Warden's
safe!! G.Gordon Liddy busted the safe one day and only me and him looked
at 'em. Goon squad busted in and shipped us off to "C" Block!
Geeze!!! Ain't nothin' sacred no more?
PJoos5667 wrote:
>
> RULES for Convicts
> 1. The warden alway makes the rules.
> 2. The rules are subject to chagne without notice.
> 3. No prisoner can possibly know all the rules.
Roger Woods
Mike,
I didn't get the earlier message you quoted:
>> Noone has ever been criminally charged in the US for raping a male prisoner.
Technically, the poster may be correct. In actuality, that ain't the way
it really is. Rape is generally defined as an act by a man against a
woman. Some states may prohibit it the other way, too. Statutory rape
generally works both ways.
Male on male "rape" has been criminally prosecuted in the U.S. but
generally as sodomy or some other term under state law. I don't know how
NY law characterizes it.
All on the group can visit the SPR website for more info. See the Mathie
case.
RW
Webmaster
Stop Prisoner Rape
http://www.spr.org/
See:
http://www.spr.org/docs/mathie.html
Notes on Maurice J. Mathie, victim of repeated rape by the chief of
security [Fries] of a large jail, who had a long history of sexual abuse
of male prisoners, covered up by the elected Sheriff.
Mathie's charge: Fries handcuffed him and raped him many times between
Jan and April 1990 in the 1st and 2nd floor security offices of the
Riverhead part of the Suffolk jail. Mathie attempted suicide. Mathie was
diagnosed in 1990 as a Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (Rape Trauma
Syndrome) patient.
Investigations: FBI investigation begun in Aug. 1980 uncovered a pattern
of sexual misconduct with prisoners by Fries going back to 1972, with
many corroborating witnesses. Justice Dept. declined to prosecute,
probably because Mathie is gay and a convict. NY State Assembly
Corrections Committee has ongoing investigation. Public Safety Committee
of Suffolk County Legislature has ongoing investigation. Previous to all
this there was an internal investigation of Fries which caused him to be
reassigned but was otherwise quietly buried. There is evidence that
high-ranking officials including the warden and the (elected) Sheriff,
Mahoney, were aware of Fries' activities but covered them up.
Press release, Maurice Mathie (See
http://www.spr.org/docs/mathie-pr.html)
New York, August 15th, 1996 - On August 5, Federal District Judge
Arthur D. Spatt found that Sgt. Roy Fries, the former head of
internal
security at the Suffolk County Correctional Facility in Riverhead,
Long
Island brutally and repeatedly raped an inmate over a period of
four
months during 1990. Judge Spatt, who sits in the Federal District
Court in
Uniondale, ordered Suffolk County to pay damages totaling $750,000
to
Maurice Mathie, then a pre-trial detainee. As a public official
Fries
himself is indemnified from liability.
Prisoner rights activists hailed the decision as a landmark victory
which
sends a message to penal system authorities. Alexandra Gerber a
spokewoman for the New York-based Stop Prisoner Rape, which
organized support for the lawsuit, applauded the ruling: "The
impact of
Judge Spratt's ruling can not be understated. Prison officials now
know
that they can be held accountable for the brutality of their
employees.
Inmates now know that they have rights which can and will be
enforced
in the courts. And we intend to use this case to educate the public
about
the horror of prison rape and how it can be challenged."
In the opinion the Judge found that "...these acts of sexual abuse
constituted a deprivation which amount to a wanton and unnecessary
infliction of pain... which is so malicious that it violates
contemporary
standards of decency... and simply is not part of the penalty that
criminal
offenders pay for their offenses against society."
Stop Prisoner Rape is a non-profit organization dedicated to
combating
the rape of prisoners and providing assistance to survivors of
jailhouse
rape. Its past president, Stephen Donaldson, who recently died of
AIDS,
was himself a victim of prison rape and became a noted national
spokesman on the issue. In Mathie v. Fries Judge Spatt cited the
case of
Farmer v. Brennan in which Donaldson had submitted an influential
amicus brief. That case provided the basis for holding prison
authorities
accountable for injuries to prisoners.
Sgt. Fries is retired and lives in Lyndhurst, NY. No notice of
appeal has
yet been filed. Maurice Mathie is currently serving a sentence of
10 to 30
years in Woodburne Correctional Facility in upstate New York for
his
role in the death of the man who was sexually abusing his friend's
child.
Note: An appeal was filed, the damage award was reduced by the Second
Circuit. See the ruling at:
http://www.spr.org/docs/mathieCA21997.htm
ccdrogan
Bill <JJs...@webtv.net> wrote in article
<6gjdf5$p1o$1...@newsd-122.bryant.webtv.net>...
> ccdrogan writes:
>
> >Perhaps you know or someone else knows what
> >is going on with your posts....
>
> CC,
>
> Kelly has an HTML background set up. It is a thing webtvers like to
> do, (I have it on another addy), and it plays havic with alot of pc
> readers. I even had the misfortune to cause a friends pc to crash after
> it locked on my background. Hope this helps straighten it out a little.
>
> Bill
Perhaps you could email her and tell her how to change it. For I know it
can be changed because several people post from WebTV without any problems.
And I am sure I am not the only one with this problem. Thanks for the
help.
--
http://members.aol.com/ccdrogan/Tao1.html
Home of the "Taoist Circle Newsletter". If you like philosophy,
jokes, quotes,web site and book reviews, and interesting essays then you
will love the "Taoist Circle". Best of all it is FREE!!!!
>
Alleycat
mik...@westworld.com wrote:
>On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:15:28 -0400, Roger Woods
><NOSPAM...@worldnet.att.net>'s laid this one on us:
>
>The reason male on male rape occurs in prisons is because it is part
>of the way that the State punishes disobidience. Prison sodomy is a
>tool of the government to keep everyone in line.
_____________________
The thing is, "how would prision officials monitor this?" And how
could anyone prove which person was responsible when you've been
sodomized by three men and have three different combinations of DNA
inside you? Is there a way?
Also, if prison officials were to start taking measures to prevent it,
prisoners would start suing them for any measure they missed. So
many types of corrective action have a tendency to rebound in ugly
ways.
The only solution I can see is to start putting everyone in
isolation. -- Alleycat
POKO wrote that
You guys are so damn smart - yes, we have a big chart on the wall and we
keep track of who does who. Took ya long enuf.
POKO
--
Pat Keenan wrote that..
reply taking out NOSPAM
pok...@nospamhuron.net..
have a look at my webpage
www.huron.net/~pokokat
Alleycat wrote in message <35648daf...@198.80.55.16>...
to...@fred.net
Phineas P. Phreak (furryb...@freak.com) wrote:
:
: How about that Clockwork Orange thingie where they bombard ya with
: imagery and such till you gag and are repulsed at the very thought of sex?
Force criminals to watch a "Teletubbies" version of "Baywatch"?
--
To...@Fred.Net http://www.fred.net/tomr
DNRC: Director, Federal Bureau of Little Guys (961017)
"... this special on the War on Drugs brought to you by Viagra...."
scul...@aol.com
> And how
> could anyone prove which person was responsible when you've been
> sodomized by three men and have three different combinations of DNA
> inside you? Is there a way?
Alleycat
From what I can remember of lab class, there is a way to seprate and ID DNA.
(We did it with animal and vegetable DNA). If all three men "deposited" their
DNA, then I guess all three men would be responsible.
kc
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Hackman
Phineas P. Phreak wrote:
>
> In article <35648daf...@198.80.55.16>, kibble...@telusplanet.net coughed up:
>
> >mik...@westworld.com wrote:
> >
> >>On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:15:28 -0400, Roger Woods
> >><NOSPAM...@worldnet.att.net>'s laid this one on us:
> >>
> >>The reason male on male rape occurs in prisons is because it is part
> >>of the way that the State punishes disobidience. Prison sodomy is a
> >>tool of the government to keep everyone in line.
> >_____________________
> >
> >could anyone prove which person was responsible when you've been
> >sodomized by three men and have three different combinations of DNA
> >inside you? Is there a way?
> >
> >prisoners would start suing them for any measure they missed. So
> >many types of corrective action have a tendency to rebound in ugly
> >ways.
> >
> >The only solution I can see is to start putting everyone in
> > isolation. -- Alleycat
>
> imagery and such till you gag and are repulsed at the very thought of sex?
great movie...movies aren't life....
Twislok
The reference to Clockwork Orange and the "mind control" suggestion for folks
that have been locked up for crimes they commited as free citizens and have
been removed from their freedom for some stated period of time. (I know this
sounds goofy but I have to remind folks just what the hell a prison is) That
these citizens now incarcerated be subject to sound unusal additional process
for WHAT? More desensitizing than is currently being applied for MORE control>
Give me a break
Reminds me of the "POLICY" of controlling masturbation in prisones by having
the guards be on the "look out" for any convict caught masturbating because
this practice of "self ABUSE(??) was considered the cause of criminal
behaviour. You know from these folks that stayawake at nightworrying about who
is having a good time and how can we PUT A STOP TO IT. Kinda like freaking out
when you see someone taling a drag off a cigarette. (Now it's ANY KIND of
cigarette. Wonder when Martinini are gonna hit that list of things we gotta put
a stop to by criminalizing.. God. How about lightening up folks and let these
"behaviour problems" fall into the consequences of their own..smoking. has it's
own pitfalls, alcohol has it's own, other drugs have their own..education is
the solution and practice we should emply..not LOCK 'EM UP..what have you
accomplished by doing that, other than releasing a rage filled possibly
"broken" human being and destroyed some family?
Snap out of it and get serious folks.
Go to the POLLS and roll back mandatory minumum sentensing laws and
de-criminalize moral behaviour problems of addiction to drugs of any kind.PRISONER'S BOOKSTORE http://www.narsh.com/books.htm
PERSONAL PAGE http://www.narsh.com/index.html
DONATIONS http://www.narsh.com/appr.htm
Hackman
Alleycat wrote:
>
> mik...@westworld.com wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 04:15:28 -0400, Roger Woods
> ><NOSPAM...@worldnet.att.net>'s laid this one on us:
> >
> >The reason male on male rape occurs in prisons is because it is part
> >of the way that the State punishes disobidience. Prison sodomy is a
> >tool of the government to keep everyone in line.
> _____________________
>
> The thing is, "how would prision officials monitor this?" And how
> could anyone prove which person was responsible when you've been
> sodomized by three men and have three different combinations of DNA
> inside you? Is there a way?
>
would not all three be "responsible" ?
> Also, if prison officials were to start taking measures to prevent it,
> prisoners would start suing them for any measure they missed. So
> many types of corrective action have a tendency to rebound in ugly
> ways.
>
so...let rapes occur because you might be libel at a later data....this
is bullshit....
> The only solution I can see is to start putting everyone in
> isolation. -- Alleycat
tried....Eastern State Prison...
funny thing is, many convicts went insane....
sounds like a good solution...lets see, get arrested for smoking pot,
get raped, then put into isolation,
go insane...
wonderful message we send our lovely kids!
Fred H
>>sounds like a good solution...lets see, get arrested for smoking pot,
>>get raped, then put into isolation,
>>go insane...
>>
>>wonderful message we send our lovely kids!
>Where in the heck do ya live? I live in Texas which is one of the most
>hardass states of them all and I don't see folks being put into prison for
>just smoking pot....
>I think you are being a little too simplistic in your generalizations....
They don't
#1 understand the distinction between prison and a jail.
#2 Understand that simple possession rarely lands someone in prison.
In Texas and the rest of the country I would wager many of these criminals
are working hard to get into jail. I see people get put on probation for
crimes when they are already in the parole system. Or they just add to their
probation when they commit another crime. It is a lot harder to get a
serious sentence than most of these hug a criminal trolls would like us to
believe. Lots of people are out there with 10 years probation for
manslaughter or have been given probation for the first 5 or 10 burglaries
before the judge gets tired of seeing their face and gives them a few years
to do before starting the process again. Parole officers are usually very
frustrated and burned out after a short time in the system.