after pomo
jamie_russ
My experience of higher education was that a few years ago Derrida,
Foucault, Deleuze, etc. etc. were frowned upon, disregarded and laughed at.
No one - in English lit depts at least - wanted to touvch this stuff because
it frightened them. now just about everyone accepts it, writes on it
(usually badly) and no longer demands a return to lit. crt. approaches.
Whilst I realize the inherent problems about talking about 'after'
postmodernism (historical construct vs. 'timeless theory, the failure of
'the new' as a concept, etc.) I do tend to think that something has to give,
some shift has to occur. But what?
After such knowledge what forgiveness . . . Or will we see pomo theory
reacted against violently in some kind of backlash, a resurgence of
committed politics or will it just simply fade into nothingness as students
and teachers forget about it??
Jamie.
tubular
itself. It's already started. A well known pomo technique is crossing
dichotomies. This has already been used to examine the dichotomy between the
author dying (Barthes) and the author not dying (just about everyone else).
I believe this was done by a fellow called Hix, not too sure. But the point
is there, once you apply pomo to pomo, it eats itself up. Of course that's
my opinion, I'm most likely wrong =]
Justin
2700
Tom Coates
>is there, once you apply pomo to pomo, it eats itself up. Of course that's
>my opinion, I'm most likely wrong =]
That's the point surely?
_____________________________________
NOAH WYLE: MAN OR ANIMAL?
http://www.btinternet.com/~orlando/wyle.htm
Tom.C...@CHEEZbtinternet.com
TO CONTACT ME REMOVE THE CHEEZ
____________________________________
justin oswald
left? if there's nothing left, then what? we get caged in our winking,
knowing irony that there is nothing? doesn't seem like much of a point to me
justin oswald
Todd Emerson Bowers
On Mon, 2 Nov 1998, jamie_russ wrote:
> Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1998 19:09:45 -0000
> From: jamie_russ <Jamie...@email.msn.com>
> Newsgroups: alt.postmodern
> Subject: after pomo
>
> Has anyone got any ideas about what comes after postmodernism??
Can anyone out there provide the premises of ultra-modernism? Is this
necessarily the follower of postmodernism? What is ultramodernism?
Josh Soffer
'After Postmodernism'. It was organized by Eugene Gendlin, a
psychotherapist and philosopher whose work moves beyond (beneath) the
tone of incommensurability and alienness that saturates much of French
postmodern writing.I believe a weriting after postmodern would be a
writingbwhich subsumes the important lessons of Nietzsche, Foucault etc.
by accepting a non-foundational, post-metaphysical basis for knowing. A
the same time, it would be be a gentler, more intricate method dealing
in a hermeneutics of negotitation, agreement and concensus rather than
opposition and power struggles. There is already a fairly large group of
writers who have moved in this direction (Merleau-Ponty, Gadamer,
Dilthey, Dreyfus, Putman, Madison). The next era may witness the coming
to maturity of American philosophy as for the first time in our history
we step out of the shadow of continental approaches. Our fadish adoption
of french pomo styles may have been a necessary prelude to more
confident and original contributions in this very difficult style of
philosophical thought (continental, not pomo).
To read some of the papers of the conference check out my website :
http://www.inergy.com/joshsoffer/welcome.html
Gary Eddy
> tubular wrote in message <363e3...@news.syr.edu>...
> >But the point
> >is there, once you apply pomo to pomo, it eats itself up. Of course that's
> >my opinion, I'm most likely wrong =]
That's sort of already happening. Look at the LANGUAGE poets and
hyper-fiction that threatens to deconstruct not only "meta-narratives" but
linear narrative altogether. But to find what follows.... Try this: IF
Modernism was lead by artists (Start with Baudelaire? Start with
Impressionism?) and then developed as avant garde art in all genres, until
such time as philosophers and linguists got in on the act, and IF Pomo was
lead by avant garde art ( Start with Dada? Start with Abstract
Expressionism? Start with Nabokov? Or Kerouac?) until such time as it
became a gold mine for lit crit, social phiolosophers, etc., THEN we'd
need to look at the real avant garde in art and literature. But who's
there who isn't unraveling the many threads of the pomo critique? In this
scenario there is no post-pomo, just the eternal return and repetition of
the same. A very big box, but a box nonetheless.
But, if we start with a wider view of the modern and the pomo, say the
conditions of material culture that form (or allow to form) avant garde
movements (Start with late industrial rev and the formation of a middle
class? Start with Realism's failure to get real? Start with E=mc2?), and
look around at social or cultural movements afoot these days that seem to
run counter to, or just simply winkingly in spite of the critique of
metanarratives and decon of the metaphysical trad, now what do we see?
New agers tramping through desert in search of cosmic vortices?
OprahNation? Or the indomitable usefulness of --grid help us-- American
pragmatism?
Seems to me, the way out of the box is not to get in. The furious
proliferation of cultural alternatives--metaphysics, meta-narratives,
meta-fictions one and al--is finally liberating, and pomo isn't the only
condition our condition is in. Let's go bowling!
flame on,
Yr ob't sv't
Gary Eddy
Gary Eddy
ge...@vax2.winona.msus.edu (Gary Eddy) wrote:
Gary Eddy (ge...@vax2.winona.msus.edu) blathered for a while then arrived
at the following aporia:
> Let's go bowling!
>
> flame on,
>
> Yr ob't sv't
>
> Gary Eddy
But hey, what do I know. I'm in Minnesota where the formerly metaphorical
relationship between politics and professional wrestling just became
literal.
GE
Josh Soffer
tubular wrote:
But the point is there, once you apply pomo to pomo, it eats itself up.
Of course that's my opinion, I'm most likely wrong =]
Josh Soffer: Are you saying that the solution to the problem of endless
pomo self-abuse is to regress to artistic styles which precede
postmodernism? One can certainly find many examples in pop culture of
music or literature which has not assimilated any pomo ideas into its
structure. You mentioned the New Age. I think also of followers of Ken
Wilber, William Thompson and Robert Pirsig, all of whom are stuck in a
Hegelian time warp of 'cosmic evolutionism'. But this simply isn't
where the interesting work is being created. To find the cutting edge of
thought today in aesthetics, as in pervious eras, one can lok to
philosophy. You suggested that artistic tends preceded their
philosophical equivalents. I think the opposite is the case. The
symbolist-impressionist movement in France (1860-1880) was an aesthetic
interpretation of Kant, wheras the later existentialist movement
(Sartre, Breton, Camus) harked back to Hegel, Marx and Kierkegaard.
The current pomo craze in literature and other arts began in earnest in
France 30 years ago with the abandonment of Marx and Hegel in favor of
Freud and Nietzsche as inspirations. This was spearheaded in France with
Bataille and Blanchot, and reached its apex in the 70's and 80's with
the popular dissemination of the work of Foucault, Lacan, Deleuze,
Guattari Baudrillard, Barthes, This postmodern movement has since
invaded the U.S. like nobody's business. What effect does this have on
works of literature? I believe that the ideas of these writers represent
in fact what literature as we know it is transforming itself into, a
non-fiction theorietical mode of expression. Fictive lierature today has
a feeling of outdatedness about it. It's very structure seems unable to
allow it to keep up with the movmeent of ideas in today's culture. Many
of us still enjo moviens and plays, but I haven' t had the sense that
these forms of entertainment are capable of engaging us at the most
rigorous level of our thinking anymore, due to the resstrictiveness of
dramatic fiction as a device and a style.. Dramatic ficiotn is dying,
and is in process of being teplaced by non-fictive forms of theoretical
literary discourse following in the moce of Baudrillard et al.
Michael Betancourt
> Dramatic ficiotn is dying,
> and is in process of being replaced by non-fictive forms of theoretical
> literary discourse following in the mode of Baudrillard et al.
Name some people doing this so we call all go and see if we want to believe
you.
I, for one, would like to see this writing (or film, or whatever...)