differences between postmodernism and modernism

[ale...@my-deja.com]

Well, by definition modernity and postmodernity must overlap.
Modernity, like postmodernity, doesn't really have much of an
association with the past. Both are future orientated.

I've always thought there's an element of nostalgia within mdm, atleast
within the arts movement, to redeem the world through ancient
civilisation knowledge & in the western discourse, ancient civilisation
often means Greek philosophy (just doing a lip service for my
postcolonial subjectitvity ;) whereas pdm is all about nostalgia
without memory, ie the reconstructed historical sites, Elvis/Monroe/
impersonators in non-western contexts. In other words, commoditised
history.

My proposition is more than western humanism, eastern socialism, or
even scientific rationality, economics has become _the_ metanarrative.

Is economics an exclusively Western discourse though? Or a specific
strain of it that you are talking about?

Arjun Appadurai made an interesting point in his book, _Global Culture_,
that in some instances, the threat of global commoditisation (be it
capitalism, cultural homogenisation or some other outside forces) can
be used as smokescreen by the nation state institutes to disguise its
own hegemonic intentions.

Once upon a time the capital inputs required for mass production of
cultural products was quite high - thus in order to recoup costs, the
_kultureindustrie_ lowered the quality of their products. The Frankfurt
School analysis was quite accurate for the time.
But there has been a confusion; the Frankfurt School studies in
aesthetics have beeen interpreted as opposition to popular culture. I
don't think this is the case from what I have read. They were quite
happy with the idea of popular high art expressions.

Yes, the Frankfurters <g> did make that point. And the walkman doesn't
make any difference. It's may be a privite individual landscape, but if
everyone elses private musical topography is the same what difference
is there really?

I may have interpreted this question wrongly, as well as risking to
sound overtly saccharine and optimistic: music topography, or the
individual's mindscape, will be different due to the music genre s/he
listens to. If culture is a site for resistance, certainly there will
be counter-culture music at hand which helps to constitute that
individual's mindscape. But then again, since most counter, or sub-
culture is determinedly outside of the mainstream cultural hegemony, I
have some doubt about the extent of its political agency. But it is
certainly a step.

It'll be pretty short I imagine.

Considering how I'm being villified at another discussion group for my
pdt-relativist-feminist-postcolonial position(s), the list is VERY long.
(whinge, whinge, whinge)

Regardez,

Lev Lafayette.
l...@student.unimelb.edu.au http://www.student.unimelb.edu.au/~lev

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Before you buy.

[James Whitehead]

In article <8i4qc6$hg0$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, ale...@my-deja.com writes

>Well, by definition modernity and postmodernity must overlap.
>Modernity, like postmodernity, doesn't really have much of an
>association with the past. Both are future orientated.

I would have to disagree with you here - modernity's interest in the
past is that it sees a development through history - of ideas - art
forms etc., so the past is useful in planning the future - its not the
same in po-mo where there is no future (the future being a modernist
construct) here there is no historical past but a nowness of all
cultures. So we see in the tate modern - like any po-mo phenomenon an
abandonment of chronology - which typified a modernist gallery where
each century had its rooms - and each movement within this...

>
>I've always thought there's an element of nostalgia within mdm, atleast
>within the arts movement, to redeem the world through ancient
>civilisation knowledge & in the western discourse, ancient civilisation
>often means Greek philosophy

perhaps more in medievalist and the scholastic philosophers but since
the rise of science its seen as a foundation - Newton's "standing on the
shoulders of giants... "

>(just doing a lip service for my
>postcolonial subjectitvity ;) whereas pdm is all about nostalgia
>without memory,

true..

> ie the reconstructed historical sites, Elvis/Monroe/
>impersonators in non-western contexts. In other words, commoditised
>history.

very true...

>
>My proposition is more than western humanism, eastern socialism, or
>even scientific rationality, economics has become _the_ metanarrative.

If such a thing as economics exists - its rather that there is no -
metanarrative - or a multiplicity of them - economics is a good avitar
if such being completely unable to predict or describe human behaviour
but posing as if it can.

>
>Is economics an exclusively Western discourse though? Or a specific
>strain of it that you are talking about?
>
>Arjun Appadurai made an interesting point in his book, _Global Culture_,
>that in some instances, the threat of global commoditisation (be it
>capitalism, cultural homogenisation or some other outside forces) can
>be used as smokescreen by the nation state institutes to disguise its
>own hegemonic intentions.

But importantly *value* has ceased to play any part - the functionality
of all our products was achieved years ago as the culmination of the
modernist programme. Both the international companies and Nation States
have lost their old reasons to be.

--
James Whitehead

[ale...@my-deja.com]

> I would have to disagree with you here - modernity's interest in the
> past is that it sees a development through history - of ideas - art
> forms etc., so the past is useful in planning the future - its not the
> same in po-mo where there is no future (the future being a modernist
> construct) here there is no historical past but a nowness of all
> cultures. So we see in the tate modern - like any po-mo phenomenon an
> abandonment of chronology - which typified a modernist gallery where
> each century had its rooms - and each movement within this...
> >

I think the statement you commented on was from Lev; but yes, modernity
does have a tendency to categorically put things in order, but it also
ties up with the notion of colonialism - in labelling people into
subjects, objects, active & passive, historian is similar to the
coloniser who objectifies the colonised through the imperial discourse
and knowledge. Pdm & postcolonialism (btw I really hate the derogative
slang "pomo". Sounds like a B-grade action film: The Pomo Squad?) is
interested in recovering the subjugated subjects/knowledge.
> >

> But importantly *value* has ceased to play any part - the
functionality
> of all our products was achieved years ago as the culmination of the
> modernist programme. Both the international companies and Nation
States
> have lost their old reasons to be.
> >

Point taken.