how to deal with my boyfriend wanting to marry another girl
Sky Marie
I am 27 and this is my first poly relationship. To be honest, this is
my first real relationship ever.
My boyfriend and his other girlfriend had been dating for almost 2
years when him and I met.
I love him so very much that I changed a lot to be able to be with
him.
Marriage is not important to him or his girlfriend, in fact he said he
didn't believe in marriage, but he was willing to talk about it with
me anyway, because it's important to me. I was willing to forget about
marriage.
NOW, something happened that sorta forces him to marry his first
girlfriend and I am devestated.
While it doesn't mean anything to them, it means everything to me and
I don't think I can be in a relationship with a guy, who refused to
marry me although it's way important to me and then marries his other
girlfriend for practical reasons.
He tells me he loves me, but that if I can't stay in this relationship
because of this, then he'll be ok with that.
I don't get it. How can he love me and at the same time be ok with
loosing me? that, to me, is a contradiction.
I love him so much, I don't know what to do. I think that the day he
marries her, I'm gone, my heart will be forever broken and all.
Any words of advice? does anyone have similar experiences? I am lost
here, I don't have any poly friends, so no one would understand.
They're all just saying he's an ass and leave him immediately. but
it's not that easy.
I understand why he has to marry her. I do. I just don't know how to
cope.
And another thing. I don't know how to stop expecting things. ok.
Aqua
> Hi there.
Hi, welcome to alt.poly!
> I am 27 and this is my first poly relationship. To be honest, this is
> my first real relationship ever.
That makes things difficult - I think it's possible to have your first
relationship be poly, but in our society, and with the status you seem
to have in the relationship, that's definitely a tough route to go!
> Marriage is not important to him or his girlfriend, in fact he said he
> didn't believe in marriage, but he was willing to talk about it with
> me anyway, because it's important to me. I was willing to forget about
> marriage.
> NOW, something happened that sorta forces him to marry his first
> girlfriend and I am devestated.
> While it doesn't mean anything to them, it means everything to me and
> I don't think I can be in a relationship with a guy, who refused to
> marry me although it's way important to me and then marries his other
> girlfriend for practical reasons.
I think I can see from his point of view why he doesn't get why you're
upset, but on the other hand if he's in a relationship with you and says
he loves you, he owes you a lot more listening and paying attention to
who you are and how the world works for you than it sounds like you've
got so far.
> He tells me he loves me, but that if I can't stay in this relationship
> because of this, then he'll be ok with that.
> I don't get it. How can he love me and at the same time be ok with
> loosing me? that, to me, is a contradiction.
That doesn't really sound okay to me either. That sounds like a very
abstract sort of "I care about you, but not enough to care about how
your world view differs from mine, and if you expect me to bother, I'm
out of here".
> I love him so much, I don't know what to do. I think that the day he
> marries her, I'm gone, my heart will be forever broken and all.
> Any words of advice? does anyone have similar experiences? I am lost
> here, I don't have any poly friends, so no one would understand.
> They're all just saying he's an ass and leave him immediately. but
> it's not that easy.
> I understand why he has to marry her. I do. I just don't know how to
> cope.
I've never been in a situation like that, but I can make some
suggestions (which are worth less than you pay in net access charges).
It involves you (and him and her) "dissecting" marriage - it's a big
complicated thing, it has legal and social and for many people religious
aspects. Just for starters, I can think of: commitment, being willing
to stick around and work through tough stuff; social (friends and
family) recognition of a legitimate relationship; joint decisionmaking;
finances; children; legal recognition and access to benefits.
Presumably, if he (and she) don't think marriage is important, they're
dealing with some of those various aspects in other ways. It wouldn't
remotely surprise me if in fact they're getting most/all of the benefits
of marriage just by being a visible opposite-sex couple who've been
together a long time. Their families treat them as together, they get
joint invitations to social events, they've made personal commitments to
each other, and they have the evidence of several successful years
together that those commitments mean something.
Basically, it's entirely possible they are getting all the benefits of
marriage while pretending they don't think it's important. And you're
not getting any of those things, and I think you're entitled to more
commitment, more social recognition (at least _somewhere_), more
involvement in decisionmaking, because from here, what you're getting is
the status of "mistress" or "bit on the side". And I can totally
understand why you'd freak out if they're getting legally married
without addressing your "bit on the side" status because that's going to
lock things in, from your point of view at least.
If marriage is important to you, you should not be a "bit on the side"
in your first relationship, and they shouldn't be pretending you're not,
because based on his willingness to just end your relationship if you're
not willing to accept his/their actions, that's what you are.
> And another thing. I don't know how to stop expecting things. ok.
Based on the limited information, all from your point of view, I have, I
think it's quite possible all your expectations are completely reasonable.
(or they might not be - I don't have enough information. But I can't
say definitively "you should just stop expecting things" because it's
quite possible you're expecting reasonable things and not getting them,
which is not solved by just stopping expecting things, it's solved by
telling your boyfriend to listen, pay attention, and act to match his
words, or change his words.)
Aqua
Steve Pope
>Sky Marie wrote:
>> I am 27 and this is my first poly relationship. To be honest, this is
>> my first real relationship ever.
>That makes things difficult - I think it's possible to have your first
>relationship be poly, but in our society, and with the status you seem
>to have in the relationship, that's definitely a tough route to go!
It is? I think it is *much* easier to always have been in
poly relationships than to have to make a mono- to poly-
transition.
Steve
PolyGirl
> Sky Marie wrote:
> > Hi there.
>
> Hi, welcome to alt.poly!
THANK you. :D
> > Marriage is not important to him or his girlfriend, in fact he said he
> > didn't believe in marriage, but he was willing to talk about it with
> > me anyway, because it's important to me. I was willing to forget about
> > marriage.
> > NOW, something happened that sorta forces him to marry his first
> > girlfriend and I am devestated.
> > While it doesn't mean anything to them, it means everything to me and
> > I don't think I can be in a relationship with a guy, who refused to
> > marry me although it's way important to me and then marries his other
> > girlfriend for practical reasons.
>
> I think I can see from his point of view why he doesn't get why you're
> upset, but on the other hand if he's in a relationship with you and says
> he loves you, he owes you a lot more listening and paying attention to
> who you are and how the world works for you than it sounds like you've
> got so far.
I'd say he does listen to me, but he also says that I put my shit on
him a lot and that it's not fair. That I keep telling him about my
insecurities and fears and jealousy and it's like I put the
responsibility on him to fix it, when he feels it's for me to deal
with it. I also feel that he has too much power, in the sense that he
*can* make me feel secure, by telling and showing me his love. But I
also feel that it shouldn't be necessary, that I should feel secure
without his constant affirmation.
> > He tells me he loves me, but that if I can't stay in this relationship
> > because of this, then he'll be ok with that.
> > I don't get it. How can he love me and at the same time be ok with
> > loosing me? that, to me, is a contradiction.
>
> That doesn't really sound okay to me either. That sounds like a very
> abstract sort of "I care about you, but not enough to care about how
> your world view differs from mine, and if you expect me to bother, I'm
> out of here".
I guess what he meant was that the other decision is so important that
he is willing to live with the consequences. He knows where I'm coming
from and respects my world view. He wants me to be happy and is ok
with me leaving then. He affirms his love for me, but I do think that
our love is not equal. He loves me as much as he can, yet I love him
more, and while I don't think more equals better, I think that love
has to be equal.
> > I love him so much, I don't know what to do. I think that the day he
> > marries her, I'm gone, my heart will be forever broken and all.
> > Any words of advice? does anyone have similar experiences? I am lost
> > here, I don't have any poly friends, so no one would understand.
> > They're all just saying he's an ass and leave him immediately. but
> > it's not that easy.
> > I understand why he has to marry her. I do. I just don't know how to
> > cope.
>
> I've never been in a situation like that, but I can make some
> suggestions (which are worth less than you pay in net access charges).
your advice is very valuable. thanks for taking the time to listen and
respond!!! :)
> It involves you (and him and her) "dissecting" marriage - it's a big
> complicated thing, it has legal and social and for many people religious
> aspects. Just for starters, I can think of: commitment, being willing
> to stick around and work through tough stuff; social (friends and
> family) recognition of a legitimate relationship; joint decisionmaking;
> finances; children; legal recognition and access to benefits.
>
> Presumably, if he (and she) don't think marriage is important, they're
> dealing with some of those various aspects in other ways. It wouldn't
> remotely surprise me if in fact they're getting most/all of the benefits
> of marriage just by being a visible opposite-sex couple who've been
> together a long time. Their families treat them as together, they get
> joint invitations to social events, they've made personal commitments to
> each other, and they have the evidence of several successful years
> together that those commitments mean something.
>
> Basically, it's entirely possible they are getting all the benefits of
> marriage while pretending they don't think it's important. And you're
> not getting any of those things, and I think you're entitled to more
> commitment, more social recognition (at least _somewhere_), more
> involvement in decisionmaking, because from here, what you're getting is
> the status of "mistress" or "bit on the side". And I can totally
> understand why you'd freak out if they're getting legally married
> without addressing your "bit on the side" status because that's going to
> lock things in, from your point of view at least.
So very true! We had talked about this in the past, that they are the
"face" and I'm kinda in the back. At home I'm equal, but not in
public. I said that I wanted to be "the face".
> If marriage is important to you, you should not be a "bit on the side"
> in your first relationship, and they shouldn't be pretending you're not,
> because based on his willingness to just end your relationship if you're
> not willing to accept his/their actions, that's what you are.
I agree! To be honest, right now I feel like a doctor has told us our
relationship had a terminal illness. We don't know how much longer
we'll have, but the inevitable is about to come. We'll see.
> > And another thing. I don't know how to stop expecting things. ok.
>
> Based on the limited information, all from your point of view, I have, I
> think it's quite possible all your expectations are completely reasonable.
> (or they might not be - I don't have enough information. But I can't
> say definitively "you should just stop expecting things" because it's
> quite possible you're expecting reasonable things and not getting them,
> which is not solved by just stopping expecting things, it's solved by
> telling your boyfriend to listen, pay attention, and act to match his
> words, or change his words.)
ah yeah, the expectation issue. We've had endless discussions and I
have grown a great deal through this.
Right now, I think that stopping expecting things is not the same as
disregarding my desires. If I tell him I want certain things, it's an
expression of my desire and sometimes they are big enough to put the
relationship at risk if I don't get what I want. I don't think it's
the same as expecting him to give it to me, cause it leaves the choice
up to him. I told him what I wanted. BUT it also puts pressure on him
to comply, so in a way it IS also expecting him to do something. hm.
difficult.
>
> Aqua
THANKS Aqua.
JK
> Hi there.
Hi. Welcome.
[snipped some stuff]
I am coming from a pretty clueless place, but I have pertinent
experience about this one point:
> He tells me he loves me, but that if I can't stay in this relationship
> because of this, then he'll be ok with that.
> I don't get it. How can he love me and at the same time be ok with
> loosing me? that, to me, is a contradiction.
I said something similar to a partner recently. For me, the gist of
it was not, "It's ok with me if I lose you", but rather, "You need
to make your own decisions about this situation". She had to
decide for herself whether the fact that I was also in love with
someone else, was going to be enough of a problem for her that
our relationship would have to end. If she had decided that
it DID have to end (or if she decides that in the future), I
would definitely NOT be "ok" -- it would completely suck and I'd
be very sad for a long time. On the other hand, it would be her
decision, and I would respect it. I would not, for example, call
her up six times a day for the next two months and ask her why
she made that decision, or try to convince her to change it.
(An earlier version of me definitely would have burned up those
phone lines, though :-) I might call her a couple times a week
to see how she was doing, and to let her know I loved her and
missed her; unless she specifically asked me not to do so.
Of course I can't speak for your boyfriend, but maybe it's
a perspective worth thinking about. Were "I'd be ok with that"
his exact words, or your interpretation?
> Any words of advice? does anyone have similar experiences? I am lost
> here, I don't have any poly friends, so no one would understand.
> They're all just saying he's an ass and leave him immediately. but
> it's not that easy.
I think it's hard to balance idealistic freedom with emotional
attachment and personal commitment, in a culture that values
monogamy so highly as ours does. Try not to let other people
bully you into making the "expected" choice. (Or the "unexpected"
one, for that matter. Maybe he really is an ass.)
Good luck,
-- JK
--
(declare (antichrist i) (anarchist i)) ; -- the sexp-pistols
Aahz Maruch
PolyGirl <newatp...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>I'd say he does listen to me, but he also says that I put my shit on
>him a lot and that it's not fair. That I keep telling him about my
>insecurities and fears and jealousy and it's like I put the
>responsibility on him to fix it, when he feels it's for me to deal
>with it. I also feel that he has too much power, in the sense that he
>*can* make me feel secure, by telling and showing me his love. But I
>also feel that it shouldn't be necessary, that I should feel secure
>without his constant affirmation.
That's kinda tricky. On the one hand, yes, you should not need constant
affirmation. On the other hand, assuming are reasonably sane, you
probably don't need constant affirmation if the relationship *is* secure.
On the gripping hand, I believe that *some* affirmation is necessary in
relationships -- I think the attitude expressed in the following quote
can be damaging: "I told you I loved you fifteen years ago, I'd tell you
if that ever changed."
If the relationship is not secure, demanding constant affirmations
probably is symptomatic and receiving the affirmation at best temporarily
palliative. You really need to address the security of the relationship
directly.
I believe that people in long-term relationships do need to know about
each other's feelings, but I also think that excessive focus on the
feelings is often damaging by itself. There needs to be some focus on
actually addressing the problems that are causing the feelings.
Now I'm going to drag out my standard book recommendation: _Getting the
Love You Want_ by Harville Hendrix. Just make sure to skip over the
parts about monogamy and Christianity (assuming you're not Christian,
that is). My primary and I give this book part of the credit for saving
our relationship during Poly Hell.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --Ben Franklin
PolyGirl
> Hi. Welcome.
Thanks JK. I am starting to love this group. ;)
> > He tells me he loves me, but that if I can't stay in this relationship
> > because of this, then he'll be ok with that.
> > I don't get it. How can he love me and at the same time be ok with
> > loosing me? that, to me, is a contradiction.
>
> I said something similar to a partner recently. For me, the gist of
> it was not, "It's ok with me if I lose you", but rather, "You need
> to make your own decisions about this situation". She had to
> decide for herself whether the fact that I was also in love with
> someone else, was going to be enough of a problem for her that
> our relationship would have to end. If she had decided that
> it DID have to end (or if she decides that in the future), I
> would definitely NOT be "ok" -- it would completely suck and I'd
> be very sad for a long time. On the other hand, it would be her
> decision, and I would respect it. I would not, for example, call
> her up six times a day for the next two months and ask her why
> she made that decision, or try to convince her to change it.
> (An earlier version of me definitely would have burned up those
> phone lines, though :-) I might call her a couple times a week
> to see how she was doing, and to let her know I loved her and
> missed her; unless she specifically asked me not to do so.
>
> Of course I can't speak for your boyfriend, but maybe it's
> a perspective worth thinking about. Were "I'd be ok with that"
> his exact words, or your interpretation?
This is indeed very helpfull! I can see that he might have meant it
this way.
I'll talk to him about it. Cause if he means it the way you say it, I
would understand and appreciate it.
> I think it's hard to balance idealistic freedom with emotional
> attachment and personal commitment, in a culture that values
> monogamy so highly as ours does. Try not to let other people
> bully you into making the "expected" choice. (Or the "unexpected"
> one, for that matter. Maybe he really is an ass.)
very true. That's kinda why I like talking to people, who (because
they understand this type of lifestyle) can look at the actual
relationship issue and give me their two cents worth on that. Lastly,
I do have to make decisions myself, but I wanna make sure it's what
*I* want and not what I think I should want or what I do as rebellion
against what people would want me to do.
PolyGirl
accidentally deleted it. :S
Anyway. Here we go again...
> Hi. Welcome.
Thanks JK. I am starting to love this group!
> > He tells me he loves me, but that if I can't stay in this relationship
> > because of this, then he'll be ok with that.
> > I don't get it. How can he love me and at the same time be ok with
> > loosing me? that, to me, is a contradiction.
>
> I said something similar to a partner recently. For me, the gist of
> it was not, "It's ok with me if I lose you", but rather, "You need
> to make your own decisions about this situation". She had to
> decide for herself whether the fact that I was also in love with
> someone else, was going to be enough of a problem for her that
> our relationship would have to end. If she had decided that
> it DID have to end (or if she decides that in the future), I
> would definitely NOT be "ok" -- it would completely suck and I'd
> be very sad for a long time. On the other hand, it would be her
> decision, and I would respect it. I would not, for example, call
> her up six times a day for the next two months and ask her why
> she made that decision, or try to convince her to change it.
> (An earlier version of me definitely would have burned up those
> phone lines, though :-) I might call her a couple times a week
> to see how she was doing, and to let her know I loved her and
> missed her; unless she specifically asked me not to do so.
>
> Of course I can't speak for your boyfriend, but maybe it's
> a perspective worth thinking about. Were "I'd be ok with that"
> his exact words, or your interpretation?
This is so helpfull! I do see how he might have meant it this way.
I'll ask him about it. If he did mean it like that, then I can
understand and appreciate it.
> I think it's hard to balance idealistic freedom with emotional
> attachment and personal commitment, in a culture that values
> monogamy so highly as ours does. Try not to let other people
> bully you into making the "expected" choice. (Or the "unexpected"
> one, for that matter. Maybe he really is an ass.)
Yeah, that's kinda why I like this group. I wanna make sure I make a
decision for myself and not because of what I think I *should* want or
because i'm rebelling against the norm (that wouldn't be me either
then). Talking to people, who don't judge poly relationships helps me
focus on the actual issue.
Thanks. Sky
Stef
Sky Marie <newatp...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>Hi there.
Welcome. I think most of this post has been addressed by others, but I
thought I'd throw in some pocket change.
>I don't get it. How can he love me and at the same time be ok with
>loosing me? that, to me, is a contradiction.
Loving someone doesn't automatically mean that being in a romantic
relationship with them is a good idea.
If you love someone, you want them to be happy, and if the constraints
on your life don't match what they need to be happy, then the nature of
the relationship might need to change, so they can seek their happiness
elsewhere.
That said, "I love you but if you leave I'm OK with it" can also be a
mealy-mouthed brush-off. And it's hard to tell the difference at first;
you have to see how it plays out over time.
>I love him so much, I don't know what to do. I think that the day he
>marries her, I'm gone, my heart will be forever broken and all.
Feelings tend to think that they are immortal. But they are not. If your
heart is broken, you will probably heal eventually.
>And another thing. I don't know how to stop expecting things. ok.
People always expect things and you shouldn't have to stop expecting
things. But our expectations don't always come to pass, and so we have
to figure out how to deal productively with those disappointments.
--
Stef ** st...@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
We're not just taking off our clothes and having sex. We've also got
karaoke. -- "Wild" Bill Goodwin, 71, denying to police investigators in
May that he was conducting orgies at his Costa Mesa home.
[via San Francisco Chronicle-AP, 1995]
Stef
PolyGirl <newatp...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>I'd say he does listen to me, but he also says that I put my shit on
>him a lot and that it's not fair. That I keep telling him about my
>insecurities and fears and jealousy and it's like I put the
>responsibility on him to fix it, when he feels it's for me to deal
>with it.
There are two ways to discuss your feelings with someone:
1. To tell them your feelings and say "Fix them."
2. To tell them your feelings and say "I'm not expecting you to fix
them, but it matters to me that you know what they are."
A lot of people conflate these, and they *assume* that you are saying
"Fix it" even when you might not be. That can lead to resentment.
So it's best, when discussing negative feelings, to be explicit about
which things you want the other person to help with, and which things
you want the other person to just listen to.
It's probably best to have two conversations, separated in time:
1. "Here are my negative feelings."
2. "Here are some specific things you could do to help with some of my
negative feelings. Can we negotiate whether it's possible for you to do
these things? Can we brainstorm whether there are other possible ways
for us to act to address these feelings?"
For example, during Poly Hell with my primary, I had negative feelings
about everything to do with poly. I wanted my partner to know what they
were. And I wanted zir to change zir behavior to address some of them,
but not others.
I had negative feelings about zir going on a date, but we decided that
zie would not act on those feelings (e.g., by not going on the date). So
I would tell zir the feelings and then say "Go ahead on the date
anyway."
I had negative feelings about zir making out with other people in front
of me. We agreed that zie wouldn't do that any more.
The state of "negative feelings about everything to do with poly" went
away over time, and I am now happy for zir to go on dates most of the
time. I still would rather zie not make out with other people in front
of me, and zie's mostly OK with that restriction.
>I also feel that he has too much power, in the sense that he
>*can* make me feel secure, by telling and showing me his love. But I
>also feel that it shouldn't be necessary, that I should feel secure
>without his constant affirmation.
It's more comfortable when one feels secure in a relationship without a
lot of need for reassurance. But relationships that are new or in a
state of flux are not secure - by definition. So if you feel insecure in
those cases, there's nothing wrong with you. If your partner can help
you through the insecurity by doing things he is OK with doing, then
you're in a good place. If you need things that he can't do or you need
them with a frequency he can't offer, then it's more difficult.
>He affirms his love for me, but I do think that
>our love is not equal. He loves me as much as he can, yet I love him
>more, and while I don't think more equals better, I think that love
>has to be equal.
Not everyone needs every one of their love relationships to be equal.
But if that's the kind of relationship you want, then this relationship
might not be right for you.
Also, be careful to distinguish between degree of love and degree of
need. If you don't have other partners and he does, you might be needing
him to fulfill more of your "partner needs," simply because of that
difference. That might not be quite the same thing as how much each of
you loves the other.
But still if you don't like feeling more needy or more insecure in the
relationship, that's a problem. Sometimes it is solvable and sometimes
it is not.
--
Stef ** st...@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
"What would *you* call the creation of the universe?"
"The Horrendous Space Klablooie!"
-- Bill Watterson
PolyGirl
> 1. To tell them your feelings and say "Fix them."
> 2. To tell them your feelings and say "I'm not expecting you to fix
> them, but it matters to me that you know what they are."
>
> A lot of people conflate these, and they *assume* that you are saying
> "Fix it" even when you might not be. That can lead to resentment.
>
> So it's best, when discussing negative feelings, to be explicit about
> which things you want the other person to help with, and which things
> you want the other person to just listen to.
>
> It's probably best to have two conversations, separated in time:
> 1. "Here are my negative feelings."
> 2. "Here are some specific things you could do to help with some of my
> negative feelings. Can we negotiate whether it's possible for you to do
> these things? Can we brainstorm whether there are other possible ways
> for us to act to address these feelings?"
I absolutely LOVE this. Thanks for putting in words what I'Ve tried to
do forever. :D
> It's more comfortable when one feels secure in a relationship without a
> lot of need for reassurance. But relationships that are new or in a
> state of flux are not secure - by definition. So if you feel insecure in
> those cases, there's nothing wrong with you. If your partner can help
> you through the insecurity by doing things he is OK with doing, then
> you're in a good place. If you need things that he can't do or you need
> them with a frequency he can't offer, then it's more difficult.
Thanks for this. I finally feel SANE!
I have sent my boyfriend a really long letter just now, addressing all
the issues that I feel we should talk about. I wrote it down, so that
I had a chance to think things through and be heard and to also give
him the chance to think about things. I told him we didn't have to
discuss it right away. that I wanted him to know where I stand and for
him to come to me to talk about this whenever he is ready. That we
could still talk and have fun in the meantime. :)
Stef
PolyGirl <newatp...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>I have sent my boyfriend a really long letter just now, addressing all
>the issues that I feel we should talk about. I wrote it down, so that
>I had a chance to think things through and be heard and to also give
>him the chance to think about things. I told him we didn't have to
>discuss it right away. that I wanted him to know where I stand and for
>him to come to me to talk about this whenever he is ready. That we
>could still talk and have fun in the meantime. :)
That sounds excellent. I hope things work out well for you.
--
Stef ** st...@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
Anarchy. It's not the law, it's just a good idea.
Lissa
news:buqg45tlc7m666vvo...@4ax.com...
> Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:01:51 -0700 (PDT) tikte dan wel citeerde Sky
> Marie:>>I love him so very much that I changed a lot to be able to be with
>>him.
>
> Do you mean: you changed yourself a lot? Or do you mean you changed a
> lot in the way that you moved or changed jobs or?
>
> Because I think one should never change him- or herself a lot for
> these reasons. I know it is hard, but in the end things will only work
> out when you are yourself and accepted the way you are, not the way
> you change into.
Now, there are wise words indeed. I have changed many external things
over the years, in order to cultivate the relationships I have. Heck, I
never
saw myself living in the desert, and yet here I am. However, the
relationships
that have worked the best in the long run have been those where being
with the person made it possible for me to be, somehow, more *me*.
When the person accepted me and loved me even when I didn't have any
social masks on. Finding someone who cares for you, not a version of who
they want you to be or a version who you think they want you to be...that
is a precious thing indeed.
-Lissa
Tangible Daydreams
www.tangibledaydreams.etsy.com
Todd Michel McComb
>However, the relationships that have worked the best in the long
>run have been those where being with the person made it possible
>for me to be, somehow, more *me*.
I concur.
Aahz Maruch
sio <sio-a...@polderdom.nl> wrote:
>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:01:51 -0700 (PDT) tikte dan wel citeerde Sky
>>
>>him.
>
>lot in the way that you moved or changed jobs or?
>
>Because I think one should never change him- or herself a lot for these
>reasons. I know it is hard, but in the end things will only work out
>when you are yourself and accepted the way you are, not the way you
>change into.
Hrm. On the one hand, I agree with this as a general philosophy. And I
certainly agree that *asking* for this kind of change is a Bad Idea.
However, I think it's also within the realm of what's reasonable to
choose to make such changes for the sake of a relationship, and it's
certainly arguable that my primary and I have made such changes.
OTOH, I think that our core personalities have *not* changed. I also
believe that the changes I've made have overall been good for me even if
I no longer had my relationship with my primary. I guess that's the key:
even if the changes are "for" the relationship, are they still good
changes by themselves?
PolyGirl
> "sio" <sio-altp...@polderdom.nl> wrote in message
>
> news:buqg45tlc7m666vvo...@4ax.com...
>
> > Fri, 26 Jun 2009 14:01:51 -0700 (PDT) tikte dan wel citeerde Sky
> > Marie:>>I love him so very much that I changed a lot to be able to be with
> >>him.
>
> > Do you mean: you changed yourself a lot? Or do you mean you changed a
> > lot in the way that you moved or changed jobs or?
>
> > Because I think one should never change him- or herself a lot for
> > these reasons. I know it is hard, but in the end things will only work
> > out when you are yourself and accepted the way you are, not the way
> > you change into.
maybe change isn't the best term to use. What I meant was that he made
me question my view of the world, to ask myself which of the beliefs
and values that I have are actually *mine* and which did I just take
for granted based on the way I grew up. So in that sense, I change a
whole lot, but I'd say it's kinda like realising your potential, or
getting closer to the person you really are. So in a way, it's not
changing away from yourself, it's changing towards yourself if that
makes any sense to you. And the whole poly idea is just one of those
things...had someone asked me a year ago, if I thought it possible to
be in a relationship with 2 people? I would've just laughed and said,
you're insane. you know? That sort of thing. But the love I have for
my boyfriend made me wanna understand and had me invest time and
energy in getting to know all this stuff and be willing to just try it
and see how I feel with it....
>
> Now, there are wise words indeed. I have changed many external things
> over the years, in order to cultivate the relationships I have. Heck, I
> never
> saw myself living in the desert, and yet here I am. However, the
> relationships
> that have worked the best in the long run have been those where being
> with the person made it possible for me to be, somehow, more *me*.
> When the person accepted me and loved me even when I didn't have any
> social masks on. Finding someone who cares for you, not a version of who
> they want you to be or a version who you think they want you to be...that
> is a precious thing indeed.
I agree, one of the most important things is to be able to be
yourself, with all your quirks and flaws and weirdness and to still be
loved for it.
> -Lissa
>
> Tangible Daydreamswww.tangibledaydreams.etsy.com
PolyGirl
> In article <5d6f9eca-d143-407c-a87f-d0d9cf881...@t13g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>,
>
> PolyGirl <newatpolyg...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >I have sent my boyfriend a really long letter just now, addressing all
> >the issues that I feel we should talk about. I wrote it down, so that
> >I had a chance to think things through and be heard and to also give
> >him the chance to think about things. I told him we didn't have to
> >discuss it right away. that I wanted him to know where I stand and for
> >him to come to me to talk about this whenever he is ready. That we
> >could still talk and have fun in the meantime. :)
>
> That sounds excellent. I hope things work out well for you.
> --
> ** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
> **
> Anarchy. It's not the law, it's just a good idea.
just to give you guys a quick update. as it is, my boyfriend and I are
taking a break right now. For various reasons, not really cause of
something I feel, but more because of something he feels. WHich is
funny in a way, cause I thought that if at all, it'd be me asking for
a time out, not him). Anyway, he says that the stuff I'm going through
right now, the things I need to deal with (sorry for staying vague
here) are too much for him to handle right now. I understand that.
He said he was scared of losing me over this and I said, that we don't
know what's gonna happen and me losing him or him losing me over this
*is* a possibility, but that I still wouldn't want him to do anything
merely out of fear.
I love him enough to want him to be happy and to do what he feels is
best and if, right now, he feels that not being with me is the best
for him, then I'll accept that. If it means that in our time apart
we'll realise we don't want to be together anymore then that's
something we'll both have to deal with then. I'm a bit sad, but also
accepting and trusting. He assured me that he loves me a lot and does
want to be with me and that he doesn't wanna lose me, so I'll trust
that he didn't lie and that the best I can do is to give him the space
he needs.
:)
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>maybe change isn't the best term to use. What I meant was that he made
>me question my view of the world, to ask myself which of the beliefs
>and values that I have are actually *mine* and which did I just take
>for granted based on the way I grew up. So in that sense, I change a
>whole lot, but I'd say it's kinda like realising your potential, or
>getting closer to the person you really are. So in a way, it's not
>changing away from yourself, it's changing towards yourself if that
>makes any sense to you.
I think of the self as ever changing rather than a constant toward which or
away from which we veer.
>And the whole poly idea is just one of those
>things...had someone asked me a year ago, if I thought it possible to
>be in a relationship with 2 people? I would've just laughed and said,
>you're insane. you know? That sort of thing. But the love I have for
>my boyfriend made me wanna understand and had me invest time and
>energy in getting to know all this stuff and be willing to just try it
>and see how I feel with it....
In other words, you don't feel wired for polyamory; you just tried it because
you happen to love someone already in a relationship who wants two women. From
your previous posts, it doesn't sound to me like your boyfriend really
understands what's involved in the kind of polyamory you truly want. And since
you're new at this, you don't either, which makes you afraid to ask for
specific things if you think he may view them negatively. You don't want to
lose him and he knows that.
Orlando
Stef
PolyGirl <newatp...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>I love him enough to want him to be happy and to do what he feels is
>best and if, right now, he feels that not being with me is the best
>for him, then I'll accept that. If it means that in our time apart
>we'll realise we don't want to be together anymore then that's
>something we'll both have to deal with then. I'm a bit sad, but also
>accepting and trusting. He assured me that he loves me a lot and does
>want to be with me and that he doesn't wanna lose me, so I'll trust
>that he didn't lie and that the best I can do is to give him the space
>he needs.
>:)
Sounds like you're in a good place about a hard situation.
--
Stef ** st...@cat-and-dragon.com **
** cat-and-dragon.com/stef ** firecat.livejournal.com **
**
Only in silence the word,
Only in dark the light,
Only in dying life:
Bright the hawk's flight
On the empty sky.
(The Creation of Ea)
--Ursula K. Le Guin, _A Wizard of Earthsea_
PolyGirl
> >things...had someone asked me a year ago, if I thought it possible to
> >be in a relationship with 2 people? I would've just laughed and said,
> >you're insane. you know? That sort of thing. But the love I have for
> >my boyfriend made me wanna understand and had me invest time and
> >energy in getting to know all this stuff and be willing to just try it
> >and see how I feel with it....
>
> In other words, you don't feel wired for polyamory; you just tried it because
> you happen to love someone already in a relationship who wants two women. From
> your previous posts, it doesn't sound to me like your boyfriend really
> understands what's involved in the kind of polyamory you truly want. And since
> you're new at this, you don't either, which makes you afraid to ask for
> specific things if you think he may view them negatively. You don't want to
> lose him and he knows that.
I grew up having a whole bunch of beliefs about love and relationships
that I have come to question. I do believe that you can fall in love
with more than one person and that this can happen simultaneously. I
think that a poly relationship is more difficult, because there are
more feelings to consider than just those of two people. BUT I also
think that essentially, the principles are the very same: love,
committment, trust, honesty...
I don't know if I am "wired" that way, as you say it, but I am very
much accepting of polyamory and am open for love (cf. to my other post
on the principles...)
I also feel that I DO ask for everything I want. I just stopped
expecting him to comply with my wants right away, cause our wants
might not be compatible. What I do expect is that he listens to me and
is willing to negotiate on whether he can do something to make me feel
better. Essentially I own my own feelings though and he's not
responsible for how I feel. I really don't want a boyfriend, who just
does things he really isn't comfortable with, just cause he wants to
please me. basically, I want our wants to be compatible, but if
they're not, he has to go do what he thinks is best and I have to go
do what I think is best. So far, I *have* compromised more to be with
him, but that's a choice I made and I feel he can't be blamed for
that.
Serene Vannoy
> I love him enough to want him to be happy and to do what he feels is
> best and if, right now, he feels that not being with me is the best
> for him, then I'll accept that. If it means that in our time apart
> we'll realise we don't want to be together anymore then that's
> something we'll both have to deal with then. I'm a bit sad, but also
> accepting and trusting. He assured me that he loves me a lot and does
> want to be with me and that he doesn't wanna lose me, so I'll trust
> that he didn't lie and that the best I can do is to give him the space
> he needs.
> :)
Sounds like you're doing a great job at approaching this relationship in
a healthy way. I hope everyone finds what they're looking for.
Serene
--
42 Magazine, celebrating life with meaning. Inaugural issue is here!
http://42magazine.com
"But here's a handy hint: if your fabulous theory for ending war and
all other human conflict will not survive an online argument with
humourless feminists who are not afraid to throw rape around as an
example, your theory needs work." -- Aqua, alt.polyamory
Aqua
Note to PolyGirl and any lurkers: Orlando Fiol has something of a
reputation* for only replying to female posters to alt.poly, sending
them wannafuck email, and behaving badly when he's turned down.
Aqua
* This reputation is backed up by Serius Science Bizness. I conducted a
survey of alt.poly regulars, asking if they'd ever been emailed by
Orlando Fiol, in May 2008, with the following results:
emailed not no response total
female 32 4 2 38
male 0 12 7 19
Most of the female "not" were, I believe, posters who obscured the fact
that they're female online. (I personally am a biofemale who prefers
the pronouns zie, zir, zirself online.)
Serene Vannoy
> Note to PolyGirl and any lurkers: Orlando Fiol has something of a
> reputation* for only replying to female posters to alt.poly, sending
> them wannafuck email, and behaving badly when he's turned down.
I Agree With This Post.
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>Note to PolyGirl and any lurkers: Orlando Fiol has something of a
>reputation* for only replying to female posters to alt.poly, sending
>them wannafuck email, and behaving badly when he's turned down.
Too late. Sky Marie and I have already exchanged a few emails today. I have not
sexually propositioned her in any way and she finds me quite agreeable. Try
your scare tactics with fawns incapable of making up their own minds.
Orlando
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>I Agree With This Post.
I've never sexually propositioned you, Serene, Stef, Piglet, Vickie Rosenzweig,
Lisa Cohen, Pat Kight or the infamous Aqua. I defy any of you crochety bitches
to uncover evidence of direct sexual propositions from me. Bring it all on!
Orlando
Griff
And this, for the newer female members of alt.poly, is what you can
expect if you ever cross Orlando or say no to him - epithets and slurs,
combined with a combative attitude.
Forewarned is forearmed, and all that.
Griff
Serene Vannoy
And bald-faced lies. Don't forget the bald-faced lies. Later, he'll
pipe up to say he should be ALLOWED to sexually proposition people
before he knows them, because if they don't want to have sex with him,
what's the point of getting to know the frigid cunts? and yadda yadda
blah blah blah.
>
> Forewarned is forearmed, and all that.
Ayup.
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>And bald-faced lies. Don't forget the bald-faced lies.
Interesting turn of phrase. What's a bald face? Might you instead mean a bold
face?
>Later, he'll pipe up to say he should be ALLOWED to sexually proposition
people before he knows them, because if they don't want to have sex with him,
>what's the point of getting to know the frigid cunts? and yadda yadda
>blah blah blah.
What you consistently fail to realize is that I haven't had sex with any of my
women friends and I'm fine with that. If I am sexually attracted to someone,
there's no harm in inquiring whether there's sexual interest before investing
more time and energy into a friendship. In the same way, I like to gage whether
people will be interested in talking on the phone or hanging out with me in
person before growing fond of them via email.
Orlando
Vicki Rosenzweig
-0700:
This crotchety bitch would like to note that there is no e in my first
name.
--
Vicki Rosenzweig | v...@redbird.org
"Regret, by definition, comes too late;
Say what you mean. Bear witness. Iterate." --John M. Ford
Orlando Enrique Fiol
>This crotchety bitch would like to note that there is no e in my first
>name.
Duly noted, Vicki. Happy now?
Orlando
MadlyInLove
> In article <db338009-e3aa-4d24-8442-6b63046d3...@r10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com>,
>
> PolyGirl <newatpolyg...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >I love him enough to want him to be happy and to do what he feels is
> >best and if, right now, he feels that not being with me is the best
> >for him, then I'll accept that. If it means that in our time apart
> >we'll realise we don't want to be together anymore then that's
> >something we'll both have to deal with then. I'm a bit sad, but also
> >accepting and trusting. He assured me that he loves me a lot and does
> >want to be with me and that he doesn't wanna lose me, so I'll trust
> >that he didn't lie and that the best I can do is to give him the space
> >he needs.
> >:)
>
> Sounds like you're in a good place about a hard situation.
> --
everything is perfect right now. Our break didn't last long. He missed
me. :)
I feel loved, by both of them, my boyfriend AND his other girlfriend.
They are both trying to make me more comfortable and show me that I am
loved.
not everything is perfect for the long term, we still have loads of
things to deal with, but for now? I am happy. Thanks for all you guys'
support.