Lying ATF Agents was Re: 20/20: ATF Not in Building at OKC
Schutzhäftling
news:iuaidvgbhlc16vsj5...@4ax.com:
> On Sat, 31 May 2003 20:35:34 GMT, Les Manly <spamsp...@spam.spam>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>>>ATF CLEARED OUT OF BUILDING?
>>>>
>>>>While at least 10 ATF agents were at the Murrah Building moments
after
>>>>the blast [10],
>>>
>>> Because they were across the street in court.
>
> Actually, there weren't even 10 ATF agents available.
>
>>You like to make a lot of assertions, don't you?
>
> I don't make assertions, Jason.
>
> Again from the Grand Jury Report:
>
> "Four employees of the ATF who were in the building prior to 9:00 a.m.
> on April 19, 1995, appeared before us and testified. Additionally, we
> have received photographic evidence and the testimony of other
> witnesses. We are convinced that ATF employees Luke Franey, Valerie
> Rowden, Vernon Buster, James Staggs and Alex McCauley were in the
> building when it was destroyed. There was no credible evidence
> presented to us that leads us to believe the ATF had prior warning of
> the bombing."
>
> And from the trial transcript:
>
> 0 A. That morning when I arrived at work, I was the first one
> 21 there. The first person I heard come to the office besides me
> 22 was our secretary, Valerie Rowden. I didn't actually see her
> 23 that morning until after the bombing, but she was surprised
> 24 that someone was there before she was. And she called out to
> 25 see who was in the office; and I, of course, was back in the
>
> 7110
> Luke Franey - Direct
> 1 far east end and hollered that it was me, I was preparing an
> 2 arrest warrant. So she went on with her normal morning
> 3 procedures.
> 4 Shortly after that, my supervisor, Alex McCauley, came
> 5 in; and he and I were working around the office and discussing
> 6 me preparing and obtaining the arrest warrant.
> 7 Shortly after that, Harry Eberhardt came in the
> 8 office, and he and I had a brief conversation. He said he had
> 9 to run across the street because he had a jury out on an arson
> 10 trial and -- in the Federal Courthouse that was just south of
> 11 the Murrah Building; and he advised that he was going to run by
> 12 the credit union before he went.
> 13 And he left shortly before 9:00.
> 14 Q. Where was the credit union located?
> 15 A. The credit union was in the Murrah Building on the 3d
> 16 floor.
> 17 Q. Do you know where Don Gillispie was the morning of
> 18 April 19?
> 19 A. Yes, I do.
> 20 Q. Where was he?
> 21 A. He was in Ponca City, testifying at a state arson trial.
> 22 Q. What about Delbert Canopp?
> 23 A. Delbert Canopp was actually on his way back to Oklahoma
> 24 City. He had picked up a witness for the federal grand jury,
> 25 and he was on his way back to the courthouse with the witness.
>
> 7111
> Luke Franey - Direct
> 1 Q. You didn't see either one of those guys in the office that
> 2 morning?
> 3 A. That morning, no, ma'am.
> 4 Q. What about Mark Michalic?
> 5 A. Mark Michalic worked late with me the evening before, and
> 6 he was on his way into the office.
> 7 Q. What about Karen Simpson?
> 8 A. Karen Simpson was actually in the Federal Courthouse just
> 9 south of the building. She was working with Delbert Canopp on
> 10 the investigation where they were presenting witnesses to the
> 11 federal grand jury.
> 12 Q. Tim Kelly?
> 13 A. Tim Kelly was in Ponca City working with Agent Gillispie
> 14 doing the state arson trial.
> 15 Q. Vernon Buster: Who was he?
> 16 A. Vernon Buster was in the ATF compliance office, which is on
> 17 the west end of the 9th floor.
> 18 Q. What about Jim Staggs?
> 19 A. Jim Staggs was also in the compliance office.
> 20 Q. Bruce Anderson?
> 21 A. Bruce Anderson was -- he was not in the office. He was on
> 22 his way to do a compliance inspection.
> 23 Q. What about Darrell Edwards?
> 24 A. Darrell Edwards was at home. He had worked late with me
> 25 the night before. And he was shot in the line of duty several
>
> 7112
> Luke Franey - Direct
> 1 years ago and has a lot of problems with his neck. And I had
> 2 called him on the phone right before 9:00 to tell him he needed
> 3 to get in there because we were going to arrest Mr. Wolf if I
> 4 obtained the arrest warrant.
>
> So Luke Franey, Valerie Rowden, Vernon Buster, James Staggs and Alex
> McCauley were in the building.
>
> Darrell Edwards was at home.
> Bruce Anderson was on his way to do a compliance inspection.
> Harry Eberhardt on his way to the Courthouse.
> Mark Michalic on his way into the office.
> Karen Simpson was in the Federal Courthouse
> Delbert Canopp was on his way back to the Federal Courthouse from an
> unspecified location.
> Tim Kelly was in Ponca City.
> Don Gillispie was in Ponca City.
>
> 13 total employees, all accounted for.
>
> Now, who could have appeared in short order outside the building?
>
> Darrell Edwards
> Bruce Anderson
> Harry Eberhardt
> Mark Michalic
> Karen Simpson
> Vernon Buster
> James Staggs
> Alex McCauley
>
> Or eight in all. Not too far off from 10.
>
> Possibly Delbert Canopp, and if it was after 10:30
> Luke Franey
>
> Making 10.
>
>>>>it seems that the ATF office inside the building was
>>>>empty at the time of the blast.
>>>
>>> Except they weren't.
>>>
>>> For example, why don't you explain why the head of the office didn't
>>> get "tipped off"?
>>
>>
>>Maybe he was an asshole. Did he ride the falling elevator down?
>
> He apparently was in the elevator. Whether it actually "fell" can be
> debated. I guess you've never been in an elevator that stopped
> suddenly, have you? Do you know what it feels like? How you would
> describe it? Didn't think so.
>
No, it can't be debated. He was roundly exposed as a total fucking liar.
--
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agent86x
<spamsp...@spam.spam> wrote:
<snip>
>>>> For example, why don't you explain why the head of the office didn't
>>>> get "tipped off"?
>>>
>>>
>>>Maybe he was an asshole. Did he ride the falling elevator down?
>>
>> He apparently was in the elevator. Whether it actually "fell" can be
>> debated. I guess you've never been in an elevator that stopped
>> suddenly, have you? Do you know what it feels like? How you would
>> describe it? Didn't think so.
>
>No, it can't be debated. He was roundly exposed as a total fucking liar.
Not really. Can you answer the questions I posed?
H. THE ELEVATORS
There were claims that no one could possibly have been in the
elevators in the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building at the time of the
blast. DEA Agent Dave Schickendanz, has said that ATF
Resident-in-Charge (RAC) Alex McCauley, was in an elevator with him
when the blast occurred.
Through the testimony of other witnesses and photographs of the
elevators taken minutes after the blast, the Grand Jury believes RAC
McCauley and Agent Schickendanz were in elevator three which stopped
on the third floor, and were able to get out on their own.
Schutzhäftling
news:ud9kdv0qf9d0g8jdn...@4ax.com:
You're shooting your own foot off. The elevator company people laughed at
this. It has been proven to be a lie. Not only did they say it didn't
fall (as he claimed), no one exited them, either...
I wonder what other lies are in there?
Ed Rhodes
news:Xns938EE7054352sp...@65.82.44.187...
How has it been "proven" to be a lie? What elevator company was it? Who made
the assertation that no one was in the elevator? What position did he hold
with the company? Your statement raises a [lot] more questions than it
answers.
Prime Loon
news:bEJCa.40661$fT5....@nwrdny01.gnilink.net:
Further destroying Martz's credibility was the now infamous "free-
falling" elevator story.
Trying to cover-up the fact that the field agents were not inside the
building, the Dallas SAC sent out a letter stating that ATF supervisor,
Alex McCauley was in one of the Murrah's elevators at the time of the
blast, when it "free-fell" from the 9th to the 3rd floor. Martz added to
the ludicrous story when he said that his supervisor managed to "break-
out" of the elevator, and then began leading a rescue effort that saved
many of the wounded.
"Pure fantasy," reported Duane James of the Mid-Western Elevator Company,
in Oklahoma City.
By luck and coincidence, Mr. James, along with a pair of co-workers, were
across the street in the adjacent Federal Court House at the time of the
blast. Rushing into the building, they went straight to the elevators to
check them for trapped occupants. After entering the elevators from the
ceilings, what the repairmen found were 7 empty elevators - all frozen
between floors and the doors firmly sealed shut.
Explaining the situation later, the truth emerged that modern elevators,
of the kind the Murrah Building had, are protected by a variety of safety
devices which prevent a "free-fall."
When confronted with this evidence, along with supporting photographs
taken by the Mid-Western Elevator employees, Lester Martz told this
reporter, "Well, let's just say Agent McCauley imagined he free-fell."
Virgil Steele
Mr. Steele was an elevator inspector for the Mid-Western Elevator Company
which had a contract to service the elevators in the Murrah building.
Virgil Steele witnessed ATF and FBI agents literally stepping injured and
dying victims of the bombing to grab files and documents. He also
observed the removal of two other bombs from the Murrah building as well
as assisting and observing ATF agents remove assault rifles, handguns, C4
plastic explosive, hand grenades and man portable anti-tank missiles and
rockets from the ruins.
Affadavit
http://www.freeamerican.net/ifa52.htm