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Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
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ПеаБраин
Apr 10, 2013, 8:14:45 AM4/10/13
to
Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
“...From the perspective of the Kurdish people -- and I dare say the
majority of the Iraqi people -- it was worth it,” he said. “War is
never a good option, but given our history and the brutality of
Saddam’s regime, it may have been the only other option to end the
genocidal campaign waged by Saddam...
...“All Iraqis lived under a regime that had complete disdain for
human life,” he said. “Executions and killings continued at will.
Thousands of Iraqis were being sent to the mass graves..
Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
safe from while he was still around....”
google any part of the above if you are really interested to hear
anything about this from the Iraqi perspective
“...From the perspective of the Kurdish people -- and I dare say the
majority of the Iraqi people -- it was worth it,” he said. “War is
never a good option, but given our history and the brutality of
Saddam’s regime, it may have been the only other option to end the
genocidal campaign waged by Saddam...
...“All Iraqis lived under a regime that had complete disdain for
human life,” he said. “Executions and killings continued at will.
Thousands of Iraqis were being sent to the mass graves..
Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
safe from while he was still around....”
google any part of the above if you are really interested to hear
anything about this from the Iraqi perspective
Alias
Apr 10, 2013, 8:23:47 AM4/10/13
to
On 4/10/2013 2:14 PM, ПеаБраин wrote:
>Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
It most certainly was for the oil companies, firms like Haliburton and,
>Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
naturally, the folks who make all the weapons. For the hundreds of
thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, not so much, nor for the dead NATO
soldiers or the wounded but you don't give a shit about any of that, do
you, nutcase?
--
Alias
ПеаБраин
Apr 10, 2013, 8:35:54 AM4/10/13
to
On Apr 10, 8:23 am, Alias <aka@masked&anonymous.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 4/10/2013 2:14 PM, ПеаБраин wrote:
>
> >Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
...........................................................................................................................................................................
> On 4/10/2013 2:14 PM, ПеаБраин wrote:
>
> >Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
> It most certainly was for the oil companies, firms like Haliburton and,
> naturally, the folks who make all the weapons. For the hundreds of
> thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, not so much, nor for the dead NATO
> soldiers or the wounded but you don't give a shit about any of that, do
> you, nutcase?
>
> --
> AliASS
> naturally, the folks who make all the weapons. For the hundreds of
> thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, not so much, nor for the dead NATO
> soldiers or the wounded but you don't give a shit about any of that, do
> you, nutcase?
>
> --
"H.R.4655
Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Enrolled Bill (Sent to President))
Bill Summary & Status for the 105th Congress
Oct 5, 98:
Called up by House under suspension of the rules.
Considered by House as unfinished business.
Passed House (Amended) by Yea-Nay Vote: 360 - 38 (Roll No. 482).
October 31, 1998
Oct 7, 98:
Passed Senate without amendment by Unanimous Consent.
STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
October 31, 1998
STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
Today I am signing into law H.R. 4655, the "Iraq Liberation Act of
1998." This Act makes clear that it is the sense of the Congress that
the United States should support those elements of the Iraqi
opposition
that advocate a very different future for Iraq than the bitter
reality
of internal repression and external aggression that the current
regime
in Baghdad now offers.
Let me be clear on what the U.S. objectives are: The United States
wants Iraq to rejoin the family of nations as a freedom-loving and
law-abiding member. This is in our interest and that of our allies
within the region.
The United States favors an Iraq that offers its people freedom at
home. I categorically reject arguments that this is unattainable due
to
Iraq's history or its ethnic or sectarian make-up. Iraqis deserve and
desire freedom like everyone else....."
WILLIAM J. CLINTON
THE WHITE HOUSE,
October 31, 1998.
Middle East & Islamic Studies, URL:
http://www.library.cornell.edu/colldev/mideast
Ali Houissa, The Middle East & Islamic Studies Bibliographer.
Was HR 4655 ever recinded AliASS?
chatnoir
Apr 10, 2013, 9:11:46 AM4/10/13
to
On Apr 10, 6:14 am, ПеаБраин <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
> Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
>
> “...From the perspective of the Kurdish people -- and I dare say the
> majority of the Iraqi people -- it was worth it,” he said. “War is
> never a good option, but given our history and the brutality of
> Saddam’s regime, it may have been the only other option to end the
> genocidal campaign waged by Saddam...
>
> ...“All Iraqis lived under a regime that had complete disdain for
> human life,” he said. “Executions and killings continued at will.
> Thousands of Iraqis were being sent to the mass graves..
>
> Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
> an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
> part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
> safe from while he was still around....”
The Kurds in Turkey are menanced by the Turks! Yet we have not
> Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
>
> “...From the perspective of the Kurdish people -- and I dare say the
> majority of the Iraqi people -- it was worth it,” he said. “War is
> never a good option, but given our history and the brutality of
> Saddam’s regime, it may have been the only other option to end the
> genocidal campaign waged by Saddam...
>
> ...“All Iraqis lived under a regime that had complete disdain for
> human life,” he said. “Executions and killings continued at will.
> Thousands of Iraqis were being sent to the mass graves..
>
> Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
> an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
> part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
> safe from while he was still around....”
invaded!
Alias
Apr 10, 2013, 9:34:46 AM4/10/13
to
you are still using your sophomoric insults. You may be old but you're
as mature as a 13 y.o. Clinton didn't attack Iraq, dumb fuck, Bush did
and LIED to do it.
--
Alias
ПеаБраин
Apr 10, 2013, 10:26:46 AM4/10/13
to
On Apr 10, 9:34 am, AliASS <aka@masked&anonymous.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 4/10/2013 2:35 PM, ПеаБраин wrote:
> On 4/10/2013 2:35 PM, ПеаБраин wrote:
> > On Apr 10, 8:23 am, AliAss <aka@masked&anonymous.com.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 4/10/2013 2:14 PM, ПеаБраин wrote:
>
> >>> Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
> > ........................................................................... ........................................................................... .....................
> >> It most certainly was for the oil companies, firms like Haliburton and,
> >> naturally, the folks who make all the weapons. For the hundreds of
> >> thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, not so much, nor for the dead NATO
> >> soldiers or the wounded but you don't give a shit about any of that, do
> >> you, nutcase?
>
> >> --
> >> AliASS
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................
> >> On 4/10/2013 2:14 PM, ПеаБраин wrote:
>
> >>> Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
> > ........................................................................... ........................................................................... .....................
> >> It most certainly was for the oil companies, firms like Haliburton and,
> >> naturally, the folks who make all the weapons. For the hundreds of
> >> thousands of dead Iraqi civilians, not so much, nor for the dead NATO
> >> soldiers or the wounded but you don't give a shit about any of that, do
> >> you, nutcase?
>
> >> --
> >> AliASS
> > "H.R.4655
> > Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Enrolled Bill (Sent to President))
> > Bill Summary & Status for the 105th Congress
> > Oct 5, 98:
> > Called up by House under suspension of the rules.
> > Considered by House as unfinished business.
> > Passed House (Amended) by Yea-Nay Vote: 360 - 38 (Roll No. 482).
> > October 31, 1998
> > Oct 7, 98:
> > Passed Senate without amendment by Unanimous Consent.
>
> > STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
> > THE WHITE HOUSE
> > Office of the Press Secretary
> > For Immediate Release
> > October 31, 1998
> > STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
> > Today I am signing into law H.R. 4655, the "Iraq Liberation Act of
> > 1998." .
> > Iraq Liberation Act of 1998 (Enrolled Bill (Sent to President))
> > Bill Summary & Status for the 105th Congress
> > Oct 5, 98:
> > Called up by House under suspension of the rules.
> > Considered by House as unfinished business.
> > Passed House (Amended) by Yea-Nay Vote: 360 - 38 (Roll No. 482).
> > October 31, 1998
> > Oct 7, 98:
> > Passed Senate without amendment by Unanimous Consent.
>
> > STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
> > THE WHITE HOUSE
> > Office of the Press Secretary
> > For Immediate Release
> > October 31, 1998
> > STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT
> > Today I am signing into law H.R. 4655, the "Iraq Liberation Act of
....
> > The United States favors an Iraq that offers its people freedom at
> > home. I categorically reject arguments that this is unattainable due
> > to
> > Iraq's history or its ethnic or sectarian make-up. Iraqis deserve and
> > desire freedom like everyone else....."
>
> > WILLIAM J. CLINTON
> > THE WHITE HOUSE,
> > October 31, 1998.
.
> > home. I categorically reject arguments that this is unattainable due
> > to
> > Iraq's history or its ethnic or sectarian make-up. Iraqis deserve and
> > desire freedom like everyone else....."
>
> > WILLIAM J. CLINTON
> > THE WHITE HOUSE,
> > October 31, 1998.
>
> > Was HR 4655 ever rescinded AliASS?
>
> You didn't address my post at all, nutcase, but what else is new? I see
> you are still using your sophomoric insults. You may be old but you're
> as mature as a 13 y.o. Clinton didn't attack Iraq, dumb fuck, Bush did
> and LIED to do it.
>
> --
> AliASS
> You didn't address my post at all, nutcase, but what else is new? I see
> you are still using your sophomoric insults. You may be old but you're
> as mature as a 13 y.o. Clinton didn't attack Iraq, dumb fuck, Bush did
> and LIED to do it.
>
> --
Statement from President Clinton's bed partner and Obama's very own
choice for his SOS expressed when she joined the majority of her
fellow DemocRATS in the Senate in giving President Bush final
authority to invade Iraq by a super majority in said US Senate in the
months before the invasion was executed:
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
show
that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear
program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists,
including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left
unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to
wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop
nuclear weapons."
- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
Alias
Apr 10, 2013, 11:39:10 AM4/10/13
to
>
> Statement from President Clinton's bed partner and Obama's very own
> choice for his SOS expressed when she joined the majority of her
> fellow DemocRATS in the Senate in giving President Bush final
> authority to invade Iraq by a super majority in said US Senate in the
> months before the invasion was executed:
>
>
> "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
> show
> that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
> weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear
> program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists,
> including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left
> unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to
> wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop
> nuclear weapons."
> - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
>
Invasion Worthwhile?". Can't you even understand your own subject, dumb ass?
--
Alias
ПеаБраин
Apr 10, 2013, 12:17:40 PM4/10/13
to
> > Statement from President Clinton's bed partner and Obama's very own
> > choice for his SOS expressed when she joined the majority of her
> > fellow DemocRATS in the Senate in giving President Bush final
> > authority to invade Iraq by a super majority in said US Senate in the
> > months before the invasion was executed:
....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
> > choice for his SOS expressed when she joined the majority of her
> > fellow DemocRATS in the Senate in giving President Bush final
> > authority to invade Iraq by a super majority in said US Senate in the
> > months before the invasion was executed:
> > "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports
> > show
> > that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
> > weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear
> > program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists,
> > including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left
> > unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to
> > wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop
> > nuclear weapons."
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
> > - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
........................................................................................................................................................................
> > show
> > that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological
> > weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear
> > program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists,
> > including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left
> > unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to
> > wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop
> > nuclear weapons."
''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
> > - Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
> The question wasn't if Clinton voted for war. It was "Was the Iraq
> Invasion Worthwhile?". Can't you even understand your own subject, dumb ass?
>
> --
You the one twisting thread context, AliASS to your Leftist lies that
Bush lied in liberating Iraq and acted unillaterally like Obama has
in his war mongering attacks for political gain
As you so stated AliASS:
<...Clinton didn't attack Iraq, dumb fuck, Bush did
Alias
Apr 10, 2013, 7:24:09 PM4/10/13
to
and ignorant but I now see I had overestimated you.
--
Alias
mg
Apr 10, 2013, 8:53:42 PM4/10/13
to
On Apr 10, 6:14 am, ПеаБраин <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
Kurds won and the Sunnis lost. It was also bad for America because
Iraq is now, or soon will be, a close ally of Iran.
ПеаБраин
Apr 11, 2013, 4:35:28 AM4/11/13
to
On Apr 10, 8:53 pm, mg <mgkel...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 10, 6:14 am, ПеаБраин <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
>
> > “...From the perspective of the Kurdish people -- and I dare say the
> > majority of the Iraqi people -- it was worth it,” he said. “War is
> > never a good option, but given our history and the brutality of
> > Saddam’s regime, it may have been the only other option to end the
> > genocidal campaign waged by Saddam...
>
> > ...“All Iraqis lived under a regime that had complete disdain for
> > human life,” he said. “Executions and killings continued at will.
> > Thousands of Iraqis were being sent to the mass graves..
>
> > Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
> > an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
> > part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
> > safe from while he was still around....”
>
> > google any part of the above if you are really interested to hear
> > anything about this from the Iraqi perspective
...........................................................................................................
> On Apr 10, 6:14 am, ПеаБраин <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bloomberg 04/08/13: "Was the Iraq Invasion Worthwhile? Ask an Iraqi"
>
> > “...From the perspective of the Kurdish people -- and I dare say the
> > majority of the Iraqi people -- it was worth it,” he said. “War is
> > never a good option, but given our history and the brutality of
> > Saddam’s regime, it may have been the only other option to end the
> > genocidal campaign waged by Saddam...
>
> > ...“All Iraqis lived under a regime that had complete disdain for
> > human life,” he said. “Executions and killings continued at will.
> > Thousands of Iraqis were being sent to the mass graves..
>
> > Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
> > an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
> > part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
> > safe from while he was still around....”
>
> > google any part of the above if you are really interested to hear
> > anything about this from the Iraqi perspective
> It was good for the winners and bad for the losers. The Shiites and
> Kurds won and the Sunnis lost. It was also bad for America because
> Iraq is now, or soon will be, a close ally of Iran.
Questionable.
> Kurds won and the Sunnis lost. It was also bad for America because
> Iraq is now, or soon will be, a close ally of Iran.
Translation, News & Analysis of Contemporary Islamic Thought
The Future of Iran-Iraq Relations
"...a number of factors also indicate the unlikelihood of Iraq
becoming future a satellite of Iranian interests. While Iraq’s
Shi’ites may share a common religious denominator with Iranians, their
Arab Iraqi traditions remain a guiding force in their identity. This
is true in part as a result of their relatively recent conversion to
the sect from Sunnism, which occurred in the 19th and 20th centuries,
leaving them with strong ties to their Arab tribal roots that often
trump identification with their Persian counterparts. During the Iran-
Iraq war, for that matter, most Iraqi Shi’ites identified with their
Arab identity rather than that of their Iranian co-religionists....'
Bill
Apr 11, 2013, 8:06:50 AM4/11/13
to
On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
<wolfb...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Apr 10, 6:14�am, ???????? <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
>> an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
>> part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
>> safe from while he was still around....�
>
>The Kurds in Turkey are menanced by the Turks! Yet we have not
>invaded!
The Turks have not dropped poison gas on them either...
<wolfb...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Apr 10, 6:14�am, ???????? <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
>> Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
>> an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
>> part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
>> safe from while he was still around....�
>
>The Kurds in Turkey are menanced by the Turks! Yet we have not
>invaded!
Bill
Apr 11, 2013, 8:08:04 AM4/11/13
to
On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:53:42 -0700 (PDT), mg <mgke...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
I doubt that.
The Iraqis are Arabs and the Iranians are Persians and they
traditionally haven't got on too well.
wrote:
The Iraqis are Arabs and the Iranians are Persians and they
traditionally haven't got on too well.
chatnoir
Apr 11, 2013, 8:40:42 AM4/11/13
to
On Apr 11, 6:06 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>
> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>
> <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 10, 6:14 am, ???????? <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
> >> an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
> >> part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
> >> safe from while he was still around....”
>
> >The Kurds in Turkey are menanced by the Turks! Yet we have not
> >invaded!
>
> The Turks have not dropped poison gas on them either...
You don't think they have bombed villages; by the way we gave those
> >On Apr 10, 6:14 am, ???????? <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
> >> an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
> >> part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
> >> safe from while he was still around....”
>
> >The Kurds in Turkey are menanced by the Turks! Yet we have not
> >invaded!
>
> The Turks have not dropped poison gas on them either...
poison gases to Saddam!
Bill
Apr 11, 2013, 1:49:46 PM4/11/13
to
I don't know but I doubt it.
> by the way we gave those
>poison gases to Saddam!
While lots of people talk about nerve gas being used in the Halabja
gas attacks all the casualties treated by anyone only showed the
symptoms of Mustard Gas poisoning.
Using the Levinstein Process you can make the filthy stuff in quantity
in any small chemical works.
The precursors are freely available in quantity in the international
chemical market, although anyone buying a few of tonnes of disulphur
dichloride these days may cause some raised eyebrows and a couple of
sleepless nights in the intelligence agencies of the world...
But if you have a synthetic fabric industry in the country it'll be
there in quantity anyway...
Poetic Justice
Apr 11, 2013, 1:58:21 PM4/11/13
to
chatnoir wrote;
>...by the way we gave those poison gases
>to Saddam!
Did US companies sell Iraq commerical insecticides, common commerical
chemicals and medical research biological materials which can also
produce vaccines.
Yes we did.
But when to comes to commercial insecticides and common commercial
chemicals we are pretty low on the list for the bad guys.
The big player here which people like you never heard of or mention are
the West Germany companies like Karl Kolb (google it) that *built*,
*equipped* and *supplied* *Seven* Chemical Weapons Plants in Iraq!
>The German Company Karl Kolb that is
>specialized in equipping chemical
>laboratories played a crucial role in
>supplying the defunct regime over the
>past 30 years with toxic chemical
>materials through a middleman who
>helped Dr Amir al-Sa'di.
And actually the Italians built the 1st CW Plant.
Try not believing everything below just use it as a guide to *Factually*
check out their claims.
If you do you might not like the results.
----------------------------------------------
And as far as the US sending "biological materials" to Iraq here's a
good place to start.
"It is inaccurate to state that the ATCC shipments of biological
materials during the 1980s constituted "arming" the Iraqis with "WMDs."
Most of the biological materials in question that are distributed from
these clearinghouses go into legitimate medical research (obviously many
BW agents have their origins in horrific animal diseases that occur in
nature). This is why those strains were dual-use items subject to
Commerce Department jurisdiction, and not military articles subject to
approval by State.
Moreover, the samples were not themselves suitable for use in direct
biological warfare applications; a great deal of additional R&D work
must be done in order create a "weaponized" strain. These samples were
stepping stones to a weapon, in the same way that certain kinds of
fertilizer are stepping stones to a car bomb. This is not the same as
shipping filled warheads full of anthrax from Maryland to Baghdad."
------------------------------------------
The British government also financed a chlorine factory that was
intended to be used for manufacturing mustard gas. Many other countries
contributed as well; since Iraq's nuclear program in the early 1980s was
officially viewed internationally as for energy production, not weapons,
there were no UN prohibitions against it. An Austrian company gave Iraq
calutrons for enriching uranium. The nation also provided heat
exchangers, tanks, condensers, and columns for the Iraqi chemical
weapons infrastructure, which can hardly be said to be for energy.
Singapore gave 4,515 tons of precursors for VX, sarin, tabun, and
mustard gases to Iraq. The Dutch gave 4,261 tons of precursors for
sarin, tabun, mustard, and tear gases to Iraq. Egypt gave 2,400 tons of
tabun and sarin precursors to Iraq and 28,500 tons of weapons designed
for carrying chemical munitions. India gave 2,343 tons of precursors to
VX, tabun, Sarin, and mustard gases. Luxembourg gave Iraq 650 tons of
mustard gas precursors. Spain gave Iraq 57,500 munitions designed for
carrying chemical weapons. In addition, they provided reactors,
condensers, columns and tanks for Iraq's chemical warfare program, 4.4%
of the international sales. China provided 45,000 munitions designed for
chemical warfare. Portugal provided yellowcake between 1980 and 1982.
Niger provided yellowcake in 1981."
[BTW 550 metric tons of Yellowcake Uranium was found in Iraq after the
1st Gulf War.
It was sold to Canada by Iraq a few years ago to process for commercial
use.
The US supplied security and transport]
--------------------------------------------
www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.html
Iraqi Scientist Reports on German, Other Help for Iraq Chemical Weapons
Program
Al Zaman (London)
December 1, 2003
Article by Dr Khalil Ibrahim Al Isa, a nuclear science researcher, in
Paris: Fresh information on the Iraqi chemical program; Iraqi money and
German brains cooperated in building chemical weapons (FBIS Translated
Text)
Historically, the Germans have been the uncontested masters in the
discovery, production, and development of lethal poison gases used in
warfare, such as mustard gas that is identified by the chemical compound
symbol of C1Ch2-Ch2-S-Ch2-Ch2CI.
This gas was discovered by German scientists and was first used in
1917.
There is also the nerve gas Tabun that was discovered in 1937 by the
German scientist G-Farden.
Later, a similar gaseous chemical compound called the nerve gas Sarin
was discovered.
These two gases are highly effective in totally paralyzing muscle
movement. In other words, the nervous system is totally paralyzed and
this paralysis leads to involuntary bowel movements that ultimately lead
to the death of the victim within minutes.
German scientists also discovered cyanide acid, which is a more complex
chemical compound. It contains the compound Zyklon-B that was used as a
weapon of annihilation in Auschwitz. During the First World War of
1914-1918, the gases used by the Germans led to the death of one million
British and French soldiers. The horrific scenes of the victims drove
world public opinion to impose stringent checks on the conduct of
warfare in the protocol that was issued in 1925. This was the first
international document that banned warring countries from using chemical
and biological weapons, which were considered to be weapons of mass
destruction during wartime. Unfortunately, the protocol did not stop
countries from conducting scientific research and tests in this field.
In 1930, more than 40 countries signed this protocol and Iraq was one of
the signatories. It continued to be in force and by 1989, 165 countries
had signed it. However, the countries of the world continued to violate
the Geneva protocol by developing new and modern methods in the art of
the mass murder and annihilation of humanity. In the middle of the
1930s, the Germans developed more types of toxic gases. The German
scientist Gerharder discovered a new form of nerve gases, such as Soman
and Sarin. He also developed the gas Tabun that paralyzes the muscles of
the air ducts in the lungs resulting in instant death. After the second
Gulf war, the major powers drafted a new treaty that was debated by the
members of the Security Council in 1992 and ratified in 1993 by 162
countries, including the Arab countries of Algeria, Saudi Arabia, and
Bahrain. This treaty prohibited the production, proliferation, and
stockpiling of chemical weapons as the world saw the tragic images of
the victims of the defunct regime over one decade. The treaty also
imposed restrictions and surveillance of the world's commercial trade
transactions in dual-use chemical products with specifications similar
to those cited in the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. The effects of
the Iraqi-Iranian war (subhead) In the mid-1970s when the Ibn-al-Haytham
Research and Studies Center was established, Iraq began to conduct
research work to test and produce old and new poison gases. Local cadres
and capabilities were devoted to this effort. International support,
especially by the two parts of Germany, was crucial in activating the
Iraqi chemical program.
The first use by the Iraqi army of poisonous compounds appeared on the
battlefield during the battles against Iran, especially during the hotly
contested clashes in Hawr al-Huwazah in 1983. According to the data
available to UNSCOM, there are 15 centers to produce and develop
poisonous gas for military use.
These are located in various regions in Iraq, especially in the areas
of Samarra, Al-Fallujah, Akashat, Bayji, Al-Sharqat, and Salman Bak.
Seven of these big centers have been destroyed and the rest were put
under permanent surveillance.
The defunct regime succeeded in establishing a complex network of
companies, individuals, and countries to help it in importing what it
needed from the international markets.
The regime's efforts focused on importing raw materials, equipment,
factories, and military industrialization technology. In fact, the Iraqi
establishments made a lot of progress in this regard.
They developed the production of toxic compounds, with the exception of
mustard gas, such as the nerve gas Sarin, the nerve gas Tabun, and a
complex material called VX. They also produced the highly toxic liquid
called Toxic B that is highly destructive.
They also produced gases that attack blood cells, such as hydrocyanic
acid; gases that cause suffocation such as Phosgene; gases that force
involuntary vomiting such as Admicit (name of gas as transliterated);
tear gas such as Chloroespotophiton (name of gas as transliterated); and
gases that cause hallucinations such as SD. All these poison gases are
lethal and lead to paralysis. They also have a long-lasting harmful
effect on the environment. They cause color mutations in plants and
crops and are fatal to many types of animals and creatures.
On 20 December 1998, the New York Times reported that the Security
Council and the defunct regime were still in disagreement regarding the
regime's claims that it had unilaterally destroyed its chemical weapons
while the special commission is still seeking evidence to verify this
claim.
The international imports network and the German role between 1982 and
1990 (subhead)
In early 1979, Iraq built the first factory to produce insecticides with
the help of Italian engineers. The factory was built in the region of
Akashat at a cost of $50 million. A security system was also built to
protect the factory that cost another $60 million. The building of this
factory experienced many problems, such as espionage attempts by the
Mosad, the Israeli intelligence service. The western companies that
dealt with the defunct regime -- for instance Australian and Dutch firms
-- exported a lot of materials related to this field of production. For
instance, the Dutch firm KBS sold Iraq large quantities of Thiodilyco
(name as transliterated), a material that is essential in the production
of mustard gas, at a cost of 1.5 million Marks. Multinational Italian
firms also supplied Iraq with 60 tons of Oxycklorure (name as
transliterated), a phosphoric material that is also used in chemical
industries that can be put to dual-use. As for the French companies,
they exported to Iraq large quantities of a gas (not further identified)
that can be used in warfare. This gas was exported across the borders
from Italy and Turkey. This transaction was concluded through the
mediation of the German Company Karl Kolb. A confidential report issued
on 21 August 1990 by Helmut Hossman (name as transliterated), the
Economy Minister of then West Germany, confirmed that the German
companies had the lion's share in these transactions.
The report said that since 1983, West German companies have exported to
Iraq huge quantities of raw materials, equipment, and small industrial
factories to produce poison gases.
The report also said that these companies participated directly in
building the Sa'd Project, the Iraqi chemical project, and the
construction of the military complex in Al-Taji. The role of German
companies in building the Iraqi nuclear program (subhead)
The German Company Karl Kolb that is specialized in equipping chemical
laboratories played a crucial role in supplying the defunct regime over
the past 30 years with toxic chemical materials through a middleman who
helped Dr Amir al-Sa'di.
Al-Sa'di prepared for his doctorate in chemistry in this institution
and married a German woman. He worked in the Iraqi chemical project and
was in charge of coordinating the defunct regime's transactions and
requirements with the management of the Karl Kolb company.
In October 1985, the operations of this company ceased by order of the
German judiciary after it sold Iraq two electronic systems that test
toxic gas inhalation levels. These are used in closed gas chambers where
they measure toxic gas reactions with biological tissues. They also
measure the level of their effect on animals, such as dogs, donkeys, and
mules as well as humans. These gases were tested on prisoners that
opposed the Iraqi regime.
The German engineering company NPI in Frankfurt expressed its regrets
for the conduct of its colleagues in Karl Kolb in providing Iraq with
the necessary technology to build its program to produce poison gases.
These gases were used by the Iraqi regime in its wars against its
neighbors and its own people. The German companies also sold Iraq seven
chemical factories and launchers that could be used as chemical weapons.
The Karl Kolb company, that has been under judicial investigation and
prosecution since October 1985, also built a camp near Baghdad to test
six laboratory units specialized in producing chemical materials to
protect plants from locusts. These were sent to the complex in
Al-Samarra. In the early 1980s, engineers from NVA, an East German
company, built a complex near Baghdad to test chemical, biological, and
nuclear weapons. It was designed like the non-conventional weapons
testing center in East Germany. It is equipped to protect against
radiation. It consists of special buildings that are equipped with
stations to remove traces of toxicity from equipment, personnel, and
military materiel.
In 1984, the German economic monitoring organization gave in to
pressures from German public opinion and dispatched two experts to Iraq
to inspect the two factories in the Samarra complex. After they returned
to their country, they expressed strong suspicions regarding the
magnitude of the security systems guarding chemical factories that
produce insecticides. One of them testified in the lawsuit against Karl
Kolb. He now claims that he was duped at the time by the defunct regime.
The Samarra Factories (subhead)
The factories in the Samarra complex used to produce and stockpile the
three lethal gas compounds of mustard gas, Tabun gas, and cyanide acid.
Each time, the defunct regime claimed that the factories in Samarra was
a complex of scientific research laboratories to produce pharmaceuticals
and insecticides to protect the fluoride in the soil. German scientists
estimate the production capacity of the Samarra complex at thousands of
tons per year. This was also confirmed in the 1984 report published by
the US Central Intelligence Agency. The report said that the factories
in Sammara were producing lethal nerve gases. Later, the US government
provided the German government with evidence related to the activities
of this complex. The evidence was in the form of satellite images that
revealed six-story buildings buried underground. The West German
government rejected the evidence claiming that it did not prove anything
against Iraq. This US insistence really worried the German Karl Kolb
engineers and technicians that worked in the Samarra factories. They
were so worried that Israel might bomb the Samarra complex that they
hastened to build shelters to protect the personnel and the warehouses
were the poison gases were stored. The horrible images of death of the
victims of Iraq's chemical weapons in the town of Halabja in 1988 drove
the West German authorities to take legal action after a lawsuit was
filed against the German companies. The German federal organs to prevent
customs crimes started procedures to identify the German companies that
exported materials and equipment to Iraq that are used in the production
of poison gases.
Incriminating Evidence (subhead)
The investigators gathered incriminating evidence and seized large
quantities of chemical materials and equipment weighing about four tons
while hundreds of witnesses testified. The West German government filed
an official lawsuit in the spring of 1991 and the criminal court charged
seven senior officials in the large German company of providing the
defunct regime with essential components to manufacture chemical weapons
in the Samarra complex and the Al-Fallujah complex. By 1989, Germany's
huge role had turned Iraq into the biggest country in the Middle East
producing gases that can be used in warfare. An Iraqi ambassador
attending the Paris conference on chemical weapons has stated, "Iraq is
now receiving a huge number of persistent requests from Third World
countries that want to buy Iraqi chemical weapons". The last warning
from the US intelligence services to the West German authorities came in
the fall of 1990. Germany was warned about the serious dangers entailed
in the sale of poisonous gases to Iraq by German companies. Germany was
told that the Iraqis were producing the highly toxic cyanide acid in the
German factories. This gas is highly toxic when inhaled. Near the end of
1990, this fact drove the United States and the United Kingdom to review
the protection equipment of their armies since this type of gas can
defeat and destroy gas masks. We can safely say that the two parts of
Germany transferred technologies that go in the manufacture and
development of chemical weapons by the defunct regime. German scientists
and cadres were also highly instrumental on the ground. This was
corroborated in all the reports on the criminal investigations that were
held by the West German law courts. It was also corroborated in the
report published by the Federal Technology Organization in Zurich. The
Swiss committee of experts and scientists published a 50-page report
that accused West Germany of supplying the defunct regime with chemical
plants specialized in the manufacture of mustard gas, Tabun, and cyanide
acid. The defunct regime established two German companies that were part
of a network of hundreds of fictitious companies to conceal Iraq's
purchases and to oversee the exportation of suspect materials to Iraq.
These companies are TDG-SEG-Industrieanlagen, Krefeld, RFA and H + H
Metalform, Drensteinfurt, RFA.
The scandal that enabled the ousted dictatorship Saddam Husayn to
procure means to produce chemical weapons is in fact a scandal that
affects Germany first and foremost. As for the other countries -- such
as the Italians, the Swedes, the French, the Dutch, the Americans, and
others -- they can claim that they were duped by the defunct regime.
However, until the whole truth comes out in the future, everyone should
shoulder the responsibility and blame for the death of 5,000 victims in
Halabjah, the thousands of victims of the Iranian army, and the
thousands of victims in the steadfast Al-Ahwar region. All these were
the victims of the arsenal of death that was built with German brains
and Iraqi money.
The Iraqi people have every right to prepare an indictment sheet against
the German government and its companies for directly assisting the
defunct dictatorial regime in mercilessly killing and annihilating
Iraqis. And this government should compensate the victims of the German
chemical weapons in Iraq.
(Description of Source: London Al-Zaman in Arabic -- London-based
independent Iraqi daily providing coverage of Arab and international
issues, including extensive reporting on Iraqi opposition activities;
has an anti-Iraqi regime orientation, and is headed by the former editor
of the Iraqi daily Al-Jumhuriyah)
>...by the way we gave those poison gases
>to Saddam!
Did US companies sell Iraq commerical insecticides, common commerical
chemicals and medical research biological materials which can also
produce vaccines.
Yes we did.
But when to comes to commercial insecticides and common commercial
chemicals we are pretty low on the list for the bad guys.
The big player here which people like you never heard of or mention are
the West Germany companies like Karl Kolb (google it) that *built*,
*equipped* and *supplied* *Seven* Chemical Weapons Plants in Iraq!
>The German Company Karl Kolb that is
>specialized in equipping chemical
>laboratories played a crucial role in
>supplying the defunct regime over the
>past 30 years with toxic chemical
>materials through a middleman who
>helped Dr Amir al-Sa'di.
And actually the Italians built the 1st CW Plant.
Try not believing everything below just use it as a guide to *Factually*
check out their claims.
If you do you might not like the results.
----------------------------------------------
And as far as the US sending "biological materials" to Iraq here's a
good place to start.
"It is inaccurate to state that the ATCC shipments of biological
materials during the 1980s constituted "arming" the Iraqis with "WMDs."
Most of the biological materials in question that are distributed from
these clearinghouses go into legitimate medical research (obviously many
BW agents have their origins in horrific animal diseases that occur in
nature). This is why those strains were dual-use items subject to
Commerce Department jurisdiction, and not military articles subject to
approval by State.
Moreover, the samples were not themselves suitable for use in direct
biological warfare applications; a great deal of additional R&D work
must be done in order create a "weaponized" strain. These samples were
stepping stones to a weapon, in the same way that certain kinds of
fertilizer are stepping stones to a car bomb. This is not the same as
shipping filled warheads full of anthrax from Maryland to Baghdad."
------------------------------------------
The British government also financed a chlorine factory that was
intended to be used for manufacturing mustard gas. Many other countries
contributed as well; since Iraq's nuclear program in the early 1980s was
officially viewed internationally as for energy production, not weapons,
there were no UN prohibitions against it. An Austrian company gave Iraq
calutrons for enriching uranium. The nation also provided heat
exchangers, tanks, condensers, and columns for the Iraqi chemical
weapons infrastructure, which can hardly be said to be for energy.
Singapore gave 4,515 tons of precursors for VX, sarin, tabun, and
mustard gases to Iraq. The Dutch gave 4,261 tons of precursors for
sarin, tabun, mustard, and tear gases to Iraq. Egypt gave 2,400 tons of
tabun and sarin precursors to Iraq and 28,500 tons of weapons designed
for carrying chemical munitions. India gave 2,343 tons of precursors to
VX, tabun, Sarin, and mustard gases. Luxembourg gave Iraq 650 tons of
mustard gas precursors. Spain gave Iraq 57,500 munitions designed for
carrying chemical weapons. In addition, they provided reactors,
condensers, columns and tanks for Iraq's chemical warfare program, 4.4%
of the international sales. China provided 45,000 munitions designed for
chemical warfare. Portugal provided yellowcake between 1980 and 1982.
Niger provided yellowcake in 1981."
[BTW 550 metric tons of Yellowcake Uranium was found in Iraq after the
1st Gulf War.
It was sold to Canada by Iraq a few years ago to process for commercial
use.
The US supplied security and transport]
--------------------------------------------
www.fas.org/nuke/guide/iraq/cw/az120103.html
Iraqi Scientist Reports on German, Other Help for Iraq Chemical Weapons
Program
Al Zaman (London)
December 1, 2003
Article by Dr Khalil Ibrahim Al Isa, a nuclear science researcher, in
Paris: Fresh information on the Iraqi chemical program; Iraqi money and
German brains cooperated in building chemical weapons (FBIS Translated
Text)
Historically, the Germans have been the uncontested masters in the
discovery, production, and development of lethal poison gases used in
warfare, such as mustard gas that is identified by the chemical compound
symbol of C1Ch2-Ch2-S-Ch2-Ch2CI.
This gas was discovered by German scientists and was first used in
1917.
There is also the nerve gas Tabun that was discovered in 1937 by the
German scientist G-Farden.
Later, a similar gaseous chemical compound called the nerve gas Sarin
was discovered.
These two gases are highly effective in totally paralyzing muscle
movement. In other words, the nervous system is totally paralyzed and
this paralysis leads to involuntary bowel movements that ultimately lead
to the death of the victim within minutes.
German scientists also discovered cyanide acid, which is a more complex
chemical compound. It contains the compound Zyklon-B that was used as a
weapon of annihilation in Auschwitz. During the First World War of
1914-1918, the gases used by the Germans led to the death of one million
British and French soldiers. The horrific scenes of the victims drove
world public opinion to impose stringent checks on the conduct of
warfare in the protocol that was issued in 1925. This was the first
international document that banned warring countries from using chemical
and biological weapons, which were considered to be weapons of mass
destruction during wartime. Unfortunately, the protocol did not stop
countries from conducting scientific research and tests in this field.
In 1930, more than 40 countries signed this protocol and Iraq was one of
the signatories. It continued to be in force and by 1989, 165 countries
had signed it. However, the countries of the world continued to violate
the Geneva protocol by developing new and modern methods in the art of
the mass murder and annihilation of humanity. In the middle of the
1930s, the Germans developed more types of toxic gases. The German
scientist Gerharder discovered a new form of nerve gases, such as Soman
and Sarin. He also developed the gas Tabun that paralyzes the muscles of
the air ducts in the lungs resulting in instant death. After the second
Gulf war, the major powers drafted a new treaty that was debated by the
members of the Security Council in 1992 and ratified in 1993 by 162
countries, including the Arab countries of Algeria, Saudi Arabia, and
Bahrain. This treaty prohibited the production, proliferation, and
stockpiling of chemical weapons as the world saw the tragic images of
the victims of the defunct regime over one decade. The treaty also
imposed restrictions and surveillance of the world's commercial trade
transactions in dual-use chemical products with specifications similar
to those cited in the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. The effects of
the Iraqi-Iranian war (subhead) In the mid-1970s when the Ibn-al-Haytham
Research and Studies Center was established, Iraq began to conduct
research work to test and produce old and new poison gases. Local cadres
and capabilities were devoted to this effort. International support,
especially by the two parts of Germany, was crucial in activating the
Iraqi chemical program.
The first use by the Iraqi army of poisonous compounds appeared on the
battlefield during the battles against Iran, especially during the hotly
contested clashes in Hawr al-Huwazah in 1983. According to the data
available to UNSCOM, there are 15 centers to produce and develop
poisonous gas for military use.
These are located in various regions in Iraq, especially in the areas
of Samarra, Al-Fallujah, Akashat, Bayji, Al-Sharqat, and Salman Bak.
Seven of these big centers have been destroyed and the rest were put
under permanent surveillance.
The defunct regime succeeded in establishing a complex network of
companies, individuals, and countries to help it in importing what it
needed from the international markets.
The regime's efforts focused on importing raw materials, equipment,
factories, and military industrialization technology. In fact, the Iraqi
establishments made a lot of progress in this regard.
They developed the production of toxic compounds, with the exception of
mustard gas, such as the nerve gas Sarin, the nerve gas Tabun, and a
complex material called VX. They also produced the highly toxic liquid
called Toxic B that is highly destructive.
They also produced gases that attack blood cells, such as hydrocyanic
acid; gases that cause suffocation such as Phosgene; gases that force
involuntary vomiting such as Admicit (name of gas as transliterated);
tear gas such as Chloroespotophiton (name of gas as transliterated); and
gases that cause hallucinations such as SD. All these poison gases are
lethal and lead to paralysis. They also have a long-lasting harmful
effect on the environment. They cause color mutations in plants and
crops and are fatal to many types of animals and creatures.
On 20 December 1998, the New York Times reported that the Security
Council and the defunct regime were still in disagreement regarding the
regime's claims that it had unilaterally destroyed its chemical weapons
while the special commission is still seeking evidence to verify this
claim.
The international imports network and the German role between 1982 and
1990 (subhead)
In early 1979, Iraq built the first factory to produce insecticides with
the help of Italian engineers. The factory was built in the region of
Akashat at a cost of $50 million. A security system was also built to
protect the factory that cost another $60 million. The building of this
factory experienced many problems, such as espionage attempts by the
Mosad, the Israeli intelligence service. The western companies that
dealt with the defunct regime -- for instance Australian and Dutch firms
-- exported a lot of materials related to this field of production. For
instance, the Dutch firm KBS sold Iraq large quantities of Thiodilyco
(name as transliterated), a material that is essential in the production
of mustard gas, at a cost of 1.5 million Marks. Multinational Italian
firms also supplied Iraq with 60 tons of Oxycklorure (name as
transliterated), a phosphoric material that is also used in chemical
industries that can be put to dual-use. As for the French companies,
they exported to Iraq large quantities of a gas (not further identified)
that can be used in warfare. This gas was exported across the borders
from Italy and Turkey. This transaction was concluded through the
mediation of the German Company Karl Kolb. A confidential report issued
on 21 August 1990 by Helmut Hossman (name as transliterated), the
Economy Minister of then West Germany, confirmed that the German
companies had the lion's share in these transactions.
The report said that since 1983, West German companies have exported to
Iraq huge quantities of raw materials, equipment, and small industrial
factories to produce poison gases.
The report also said that these companies participated directly in
building the Sa'd Project, the Iraqi chemical project, and the
construction of the military complex in Al-Taji. The role of German
companies in building the Iraqi nuclear program (subhead)
The German Company Karl Kolb that is specialized in equipping chemical
laboratories played a crucial role in supplying the defunct regime over
the past 30 years with toxic chemical materials through a middleman who
helped Dr Amir al-Sa'di.
Al-Sa'di prepared for his doctorate in chemistry in this institution
and married a German woman. He worked in the Iraqi chemical project and
was in charge of coordinating the defunct regime's transactions and
requirements with the management of the Karl Kolb company.
In October 1985, the operations of this company ceased by order of the
German judiciary after it sold Iraq two electronic systems that test
toxic gas inhalation levels. These are used in closed gas chambers where
they measure toxic gas reactions with biological tissues. They also
measure the level of their effect on animals, such as dogs, donkeys, and
mules as well as humans. These gases were tested on prisoners that
opposed the Iraqi regime.
The German engineering company NPI in Frankfurt expressed its regrets
for the conduct of its colleagues in Karl Kolb in providing Iraq with
the necessary technology to build its program to produce poison gases.
These gases were used by the Iraqi regime in its wars against its
neighbors and its own people. The German companies also sold Iraq seven
chemical factories and launchers that could be used as chemical weapons.
The Karl Kolb company, that has been under judicial investigation and
prosecution since October 1985, also built a camp near Baghdad to test
six laboratory units specialized in producing chemical materials to
protect plants from locusts. These were sent to the complex in
Al-Samarra. In the early 1980s, engineers from NVA, an East German
company, built a complex near Baghdad to test chemical, biological, and
nuclear weapons. It was designed like the non-conventional weapons
testing center in East Germany. It is equipped to protect against
radiation. It consists of special buildings that are equipped with
stations to remove traces of toxicity from equipment, personnel, and
military materiel.
In 1984, the German economic monitoring organization gave in to
pressures from German public opinion and dispatched two experts to Iraq
to inspect the two factories in the Samarra complex. After they returned
to their country, they expressed strong suspicions regarding the
magnitude of the security systems guarding chemical factories that
produce insecticides. One of them testified in the lawsuit against Karl
Kolb. He now claims that he was duped at the time by the defunct regime.
The Samarra Factories (subhead)
The factories in the Samarra complex used to produce and stockpile the
three lethal gas compounds of mustard gas, Tabun gas, and cyanide acid.
Each time, the defunct regime claimed that the factories in Samarra was
a complex of scientific research laboratories to produce pharmaceuticals
and insecticides to protect the fluoride in the soil. German scientists
estimate the production capacity of the Samarra complex at thousands of
tons per year. This was also confirmed in the 1984 report published by
the US Central Intelligence Agency. The report said that the factories
in Sammara were producing lethal nerve gases. Later, the US government
provided the German government with evidence related to the activities
of this complex. The evidence was in the form of satellite images that
revealed six-story buildings buried underground. The West German
government rejected the evidence claiming that it did not prove anything
against Iraq. This US insistence really worried the German Karl Kolb
engineers and technicians that worked in the Samarra factories. They
were so worried that Israel might bomb the Samarra complex that they
hastened to build shelters to protect the personnel and the warehouses
were the poison gases were stored. The horrible images of death of the
victims of Iraq's chemical weapons in the town of Halabja in 1988 drove
the West German authorities to take legal action after a lawsuit was
filed against the German companies. The German federal organs to prevent
customs crimes started procedures to identify the German companies that
exported materials and equipment to Iraq that are used in the production
of poison gases.
Incriminating Evidence (subhead)
The investigators gathered incriminating evidence and seized large
quantities of chemical materials and equipment weighing about four tons
while hundreds of witnesses testified. The West German government filed
an official lawsuit in the spring of 1991 and the criminal court charged
seven senior officials in the large German company of providing the
defunct regime with essential components to manufacture chemical weapons
in the Samarra complex and the Al-Fallujah complex. By 1989, Germany's
huge role had turned Iraq into the biggest country in the Middle East
producing gases that can be used in warfare. An Iraqi ambassador
attending the Paris conference on chemical weapons has stated, "Iraq is
now receiving a huge number of persistent requests from Third World
countries that want to buy Iraqi chemical weapons". The last warning
from the US intelligence services to the West German authorities came in
the fall of 1990. Germany was warned about the serious dangers entailed
in the sale of poisonous gases to Iraq by German companies. Germany was
told that the Iraqis were producing the highly toxic cyanide acid in the
German factories. This gas is highly toxic when inhaled. Near the end of
1990, this fact drove the United States and the United Kingdom to review
the protection equipment of their armies since this type of gas can
defeat and destroy gas masks. We can safely say that the two parts of
Germany transferred technologies that go in the manufacture and
development of chemical weapons by the defunct regime. German scientists
and cadres were also highly instrumental on the ground. This was
corroborated in all the reports on the criminal investigations that were
held by the West German law courts. It was also corroborated in the
report published by the Federal Technology Organization in Zurich. The
Swiss committee of experts and scientists published a 50-page report
that accused West Germany of supplying the defunct regime with chemical
plants specialized in the manufacture of mustard gas, Tabun, and cyanide
acid. The defunct regime established two German companies that were part
of a network of hundreds of fictitious companies to conceal Iraq's
purchases and to oversee the exportation of suspect materials to Iraq.
These companies are TDG-SEG-Industrieanlagen, Krefeld, RFA and H + H
Metalform, Drensteinfurt, RFA.
The scandal that enabled the ousted dictatorship Saddam Husayn to
procure means to produce chemical weapons is in fact a scandal that
affects Germany first and foremost. As for the other countries -- such
as the Italians, the Swedes, the French, the Dutch, the Americans, and
others -- they can claim that they were duped by the defunct regime.
However, until the whole truth comes out in the future, everyone should
shoulder the responsibility and blame for the death of 5,000 victims in
Halabjah, the thousands of victims of the Iranian army, and the
thousands of victims in the steadfast Al-Ahwar region. All these were
the victims of the arsenal of death that was built with German brains
and Iraqi money.
The Iraqi people have every right to prepare an indictment sheet against
the German government and its companies for directly assisting the
defunct dictatorial regime in mercilessly killing and annihilating
Iraqis. And this government should compensate the victims of the German
chemical weapons in Iraq.
(Description of Source: London Al-Zaman in Arabic -- London-based
independent Iraqi daily providing coverage of Arab and international
issues, including extensive reporting on Iraqi opposition activities;
has an anti-Iraqi regime orientation, and is headed by the former editor
of the Iraqi daily Al-Jumhuriyah)
chatnoir
Apr 11, 2013, 10:06:59 PM4/11/13
to
On Apr 11, 11:49 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 05:40:42 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>
>
>
>
>
> <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 11, 6:06 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>
> >> <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> >On Apr 10, 6:14 am, ???????? <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >> Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
> >> >> an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
> >> >> part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
> >> >> safe from while he was still around....”
>
> >> >The Kurds in Turkey are menanced by the Turks! Yet we have not
> >> >invaded!
>
> >> The Turks have not dropped poison gas on them either...
>
> >You don't think they have bombed villages;
>
> In Turkey?
>
> I don't know but I doubt it.
>
> > by the way we gave those
> >poison gases to Saddam!
>
> Cite please.
http://www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137.html
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 05:40:42 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>
>
>
>
>
> <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >On Apr 11, 6:06 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>
> >> <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >> >On Apr 10, 6:14 am, ???????? <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> >> Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
> >> >> an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
> >> >> part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
> >> >> safe from while he was still around....”
>
> >> >The Kurds in Turkey are menanced by the Turks! Yet we have not
> >> >invaded!
>
> >> The Turks have not dropped poison gas on them either...
>
> >You don't think they have bombed villages;
>
> In Turkey?
>
> I don't know but I doubt it.
>
> > by the way we gave those
> >poison gases to Saddam!
>
> Cite please.
Personal meeting between Saddam and Rumsfeld
American poison gas for Saddam, courtesy of Rumsfeld
By Daan de Wit
This article has been translated into English by Marienella
Meulensteen
By having a personal meeting with Saddam Hussein in 1983, the American
Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld took care of it that American
companies started to deliver poison gas to Iraq. He cleared the way
'for U.S. companies to sell Baghdad biological and chemical weapons
components, including anthrax and bubonic plague cultures, according
to newly declassified U.S. Government documents', as it is to be read
in The Times. 'Mr Rumsfeld’s 90-minute meeting with Saddam, preceded
by a warm handshake [...] was captured on film [...]'. See the footage
at the bottom of this article.
The policy of the U.S. lasted until just before the attack on Kuwait
The Washington Post writes: 'Declassified documents show that Rumsfeld
traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on
an "almost daily" basis in defiance of international conventions.' The
Times: 'The policy was followed with such vigour over the next seven
years that on July 25, 1990, only one week before Saddam invaded
Kuwait, the U.S. Ambassador to Baghdad met Saddam to assure him that
President Bush “wanted better and deeper relations”.' That same
Ambassador, April Glaspie, gave Saddam the green light for the
invasion of Kuwait (see this DeepJournal).
U.S. main supplier Saddam
'To prevent Iraqi defeat in the Iran-Iraq war, which was started by
Iraq and lasted from 1980 to 1988, the Reagan Administration began
supplying Saddam with battlefield intelligence on Iranian troop
movements. By the end of the decade, Washington had authorised the
sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian
applications. These included poisonous chemicals and biological
viruses, among them anthrax and bubonic plague.' Up to this day, the
Americans have problems to keep the Plague inside their laboratories.
Today it became known that the lost Plague samples from the Texan
university have been found again.'According to an affidavit sworn by
Howard Teicher, a former National Security Council official during the
Reagan Administration, the U.S. “actively supported the Iraqi war
effort by supplying the Iraqis with billions of dollars of credits, by
providing military intelligence and advice to the Iraqis, and by
closely monitoring third-country arms sales to Iraq to make sure Iraq
had the military weaponry required.” Mr. Teicher said that William
Casey, the former CIA Director, used a Chilean front company to supply
Baghdad with cluster bombs.'
Anthrax
'A 1994 investigation by the Senate Banking Committee disclosed that
dozens of biological agents were shipped to Iraq in the mid-1980s
under license from the U.S. Commerce Department, including strains of
anthrax. Anthrax has been identified by the Pentagon as a key
component of Saddam’s biological weapons program.' Anthrax, the stuff
that scared everyone so much some time ago (except for Vice President
Cheney, because he had been vaccinated long before) because Al Qaida
was sending it around, until it became known that it originated from
an American army laboratory.
Halabja
'In November 1983, a month before Mr. Rumsfeld’s first visit to
Baghdad, George Shultz, the Secretary of State, was given intelligence
reports showing that Iraqi troops were resorting to “almost daily use
of CW (chemical weapons) against the Iranians”.' The Times as well as
the Washington Post cite in this connection the well-known poison gas
attack on the Kurds in Halabja, but that was alleged to have been
committed by Iran and not by Irak. See part one in this series
http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/06/17/how-reagan-armed-saddam-with-chemical-weapons/
headline:
The Ties That Blind How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons
How Reagan Armed Saddam with Chemical Weapons
by NORM DIXON
On August 18, 2002, the New York Times carried a front-page story
headlined, "Officers say U.S. aided Iraq despite the use of gas".
Quoting anonymous US "senior military officers", the NYT "revealed"
that in the 1980s, the administration of US President Ronald Reagan
covertly provided "critical battle planning assistance at a time when
American intelligence knew that Iraqi commanders would employ chemical
weapons in waging the decisive battles of the Iran-Iraq war". The
story made a brief splash in the international media, then died.
While the August 18 NYT article added new details about the extent of
US military collaboration with Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein during
Iraq’s 1980-88 war with Iran, it omitted the most outrageous aspect of
the scandal: not only did Ronald Reagan’s Washington turn a blind-eye
to the Hussein regime’s repeated use of chemical weapons against
Iranian soldiers and Iraq’s Kurdish minority, but the US helped Iraq
develop its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs.
excerpt:
A 1994 US Senate report revealed that US companies were licenced by
the commerce department to export a "witch’s brew" of biological and
chemical materials, including bacillus anthracis (which causes
anthrax) and clostridium botulinum (the source of botulism). The
American Type Culture Collection made 70 shipments of the anthrax bug
and other pathogenic agents.
The report also noted that US exports to Iraq included the precursors
to chemical warfare agents, plans for chemical and biological warfare
facilities and chemical warhead filling equipment. US firms supplied
advanced and specialised computers, lasers, testing and analysing
equipment. Among the better-known companies were Hewlett Packard,
Unisys, Data General and Honeywell.
Billions of dollars worth of raw materials, machinery and equipment,
missile technology and other "dual-use" items were also supplied by
West German, French, Italian, British, Swiss and Austrian
corporations, with the approval of their governments (German firms
even sold Iraq entire factories capable of mass-producing poison gas).
Much of this was purchased with funds freed by the US CCC credits.
The destination of much of this equipment was Saad 16, near Mosul in
northern Iraq. Western intelligence agencies had long known that the
sprawling complex was Iraq’s main ballistic missile development
centre.
Blum reported that Washington was fully aware of the likely use of
this material. In 1992, a US Senate committee learned that the
commerce department had deleted references to military end-use from
information it sent to Congress about 68 export licences, worth more
than $1 billion.
In 1986, the US defence department’s deputy undersecretary for trade
security, Stephen Bryen, had objected to the export of an advanced
computer, similar to those used in the US missile program, to Saad 16
because "of the high likelihood of military end use". The state and
commerce departments approved the sale without conditions.
In his book, The Death Lobby: How the West Armed Iraq, Kenneth
Timmerman points out that several US agencies were supposed to review
US exports that may be detrimental to US "national security". However,
the commerce department often did not submit exports to Hussein’s Iraq
for review or approved them despite objections from other government
departments.
On March 16, 1988, Iraqi forces launched a poison gas attack on the
Iraqi Kurdish village of Halabja, killing 5000 people. While that
attack is today being touted by senior US officials as one of the main
reasons why Hussein must now be "taken out", at the time Washington’s
response to the atrocity was much more relaxed.
Just four months later, Washington stood by as the US giant Bechtel
corporation won the contract to build a huge petrochemical plant that
would give the Hussein regime the capacity to generate chemical
weapons. ...
>
> While lots of people talk about nerve gas being used in the Halabja
> gas attacks all the casualties treated by anyone only showed the
> symptoms of Mustard Gas poisoning.
>
> Using the Levinstein Process you can make the filthy stuff in quantity
> in any small chemical works.
>
> The precursors are freely available in quantity in the international
> chemical market, although anyone buying a few of tonnes of disulphur
> dichloride these days may cause some raised eyebrows and a couple of
> sleepless nights in the intelligence agencies of the world...
>
> But if you have a synthetic fabric industry in the country it'll be
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bill
Apr 12, 2013, 6:07:13 AM4/12/13
to
On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:06:59 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
<wolfb...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Apr 11, 11:49�am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 05:40:42 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >On Apr 11, 6:06�am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>>
>> >> <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Apr 10, 6:14�am, ???????? <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
>> >> >> an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
>> >> >> part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
>> >> >> safe from while he was still around....�
>>
>> >> >The Kurds in Turkey are menanced by the Turks! � Yet we have not
>> >> >invaded!
>>
>> >> The Turks have not dropped poison gas on them either...
>>
>> >You don't think they have bombed villages;
>>
>> In Turkey?
>>
>> I don't know but I doubt it.
>>
>> > �by the way we gave those
>> >poison gases to Saddam!
>>
>> Cite please.
>
>http://www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137.html
>
<wolfb...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Apr 11, 11:49�am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 05:40:42 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >On Apr 11, 6:06�am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 06:11:46 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>>
>> >> <wolfbat3...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>> >> >On Apr 10, 6:14�am, ???????? <lapuant...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Saddam was a menace to the Kurds, to the other Iraqi communities, and
>> >> >> an inherent danger to the region. He was, from our perspective in this
>> >> >> part of the world, a grave and mortal danger that we could never be
>> >> >> safe from while he was still around....�
>>
>> >> >The Kurds in Turkey are menanced by the Turks! � Yet we have not
>> >> >invaded!
>>
>> >> The Turks have not dropped poison gas on them either...
>>
>> >You don't think they have bombed villages;
>>
>> In Turkey?
>>
>> I don't know but I doubt it.
>>
>> > �by the way we gave those
>> >poison gases to Saddam!
>>
>> Cite please.
>
>http://www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137.html
>
>The policy of the U.S. lasted until just before the attack on Kuwait
>The Washington Post writes: 'Declassified documents show that Rumsfeld
>traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on
>an "almost daily" basis in defiance of international conventions.'
In fact they seem to have made a single large attack.
>The Washington Post writes: 'Declassified documents show that Rumsfeld
>traveled to Baghdad at a time when Iraq was using chemical weapons on
>an "almost daily" basis in defiance of international conventions.'
By the end of the decade, Washington had authorised the
>sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian
>applications. These included poisonous chemicals and biological
>viruses, among them anthrax and bubonic plague.'
This nonsense is just made up rubbish.
>Anthrax
>'A 1994 investigation by the Senate Banking Committee disclosed that
>dozens of biological agents were shipped to Iraq in the mid-1980s
>under license from the U.S. Commerce Department, including strains of
>anthrax. Anthrax has been identified by the Pentagon as a key
>component of Saddam�s biological weapons program.'
Your sources are bullshit.
chatnoir
Apr 12, 2013, 8:12:58 AM4/12/13
to
On Apr 12, 4:07 am, Bill <blackuse...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:06:59 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Apr 2013 19:06:59 -0700 (PDT), chatnoir
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
You just can't view the US as being impure!
> - Show quoted text -
Poetic Justice
Apr 12, 2013, 12:42:09 PM4/12/13
to
charnoir wrote;
>http://www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137
>html [Snip]
>http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/06/17
>how-reagan-armed-saddam-with-chemica
>-weapons/ [Snip]
So your *fact cites* are from 2 private citizens both with a bias,
agendas, etc and on the fringe of society?
www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137.html
>"Personal meeting between Saddam and
>Rumsfeld American poison gas for
>Saddam,..."
>"American Secretary of Defense Donald
>Rumsfeld took care of it that American
>companies started to deliver poison gas to
>Iraq."
It's one person's article that he wrote and posted on his own website.
It is only his *claim* which he doesn't back-up with *facts*, as there
are none to support his two statements or he would have used them.
I could put up a website and claim that Rumsfeld and Saddam were lovers,
that doesn't make it a fact.
Do you not understand the difference?
That man Daan de Wit is intelligent and successful (media, books) in the
Netherlands.
But he is also a conspiracy nut and a 9/11 Truther, you think he's a
good source for you to cite just because it supports what *You* want to
believe?
-------------------------------------------------
And the other *article* you cite as fact, here's a good example of his
*facts* as Bullshit.
www.counterpunch.org/2004/06/17/how-reagan-armed-saddam-with-chemical-weapons/
The article was written by Norm Dixon who writes for Australia's 'Green
Left Weekly'.
"Online version of the progressive newspaper published by the Democratic
Socialist Party (Australia)."
www.greenleft.org.au/
>"It is believed that US-supplied choppers
>were used in the 1988 chemical attack on
>the Kurdish village of Halabja, which killed
>5000 people."
"US-supplied choppers" "used" "chemical attack" "killed 5000 people"
That is his *only* mention of how the Halabja attack was carried-out!
Nothing on the French supplied fighter jets [also Russian Migs were seen
by an eyewitness Iranian journalist] that dropped the chemical bombs or
that some *unknown make* of helicopters *just* oversaw the operation.
And you would think that in a military operation the high ranking
commanders like Generals would go into an attack in attack helicopters
vs unarmed civilian ones maybe?
An eyewitness account;
"The five-hour attack began early in the evening of 16 March 1988,
following a series of random attacks using rocket and napalm, when Iraqi
Mirage [FRENCH] aircraft began dropping chemical bombs on Halabja's
residential areas, far from the besieged Iraqi army base on the
outskirts of the town.
An Iraqi aircraft conducted up to 20 bombings in sorties of seven to
eight planes each; HELICOPTERS coordinating the operation were also
seen."
-------------------------------------
The US sold Iraq 60 unarmed civilian use helicopters which were
confiscated during their war by the military for VIP transport.
None were *ever* armed, why do a half-ass foolish attempt to make it
into an attack helicopter when you are already supplied with 2 of the
World's best *ATTACK* helicopters?
Iraq's attack helicopter force was Russian and French.
From the Russians a large number of the Mil-24 Hind *ATTACK*
helicopters *armed* with cannon and missiles and it is reported that
some had chemical weapon sprayers.
From the French a large number of Gazelle *ATTACK* helicopters.
And with the French against International Law suppling spare parts for
their jets and helicopters during the 10 year embargo on Iraq.
>http://www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137
>html [Snip]
>http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/06/17
>how-reagan-armed-saddam-with-chemica
>-weapons/ [Snip]
So your *fact cites* are from 2 private citizens both with a bias,
agendas, etc and on the fringe of society?
www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137.html
>"Personal meeting between Saddam and
>Rumsfeld American poison gas for
>"American Secretary of Defense Donald
>Rumsfeld took care of it that American
>companies started to deliver poison gas to
>Iraq."
It is only his *claim* which he doesn't back-up with *facts*, as there
are none to support his two statements or he would have used them.
I could put up a website and claim that Rumsfeld and Saddam were lovers,
that doesn't make it a fact.
Do you not understand the difference?
That man Daan de Wit is intelligent and successful (media, books) in the
Netherlands.
But he is also a conspiracy nut and a 9/11 Truther, you think he's a
good source for you to cite just because it supports what *You* want to
believe?
-------------------------------------------------
And the other *article* you cite as fact, here's a good example of his
*facts* as Bullshit.
www.counterpunch.org/2004/06/17/how-reagan-armed-saddam-with-chemical-weapons/
The article was written by Norm Dixon who writes for Australia's 'Green
Left Weekly'.
"Online version of the progressive newspaper published by the Democratic
Socialist Party (Australia)."
www.greenleft.org.au/
>"It is believed that US-supplied choppers
>were used in the 1988 chemical attack on
>the Kurdish village of Halabja, which killed
>5000 people."
"US-supplied choppers" "used" "chemical attack" "killed 5000 people"
That is his *only* mention of how the Halabja attack was carried-out!
Nothing on the French supplied fighter jets [also Russian Migs were seen
by an eyewitness Iranian journalist] that dropped the chemical bombs or
that some *unknown make* of helicopters *just* oversaw the operation.
And you would think that in a military operation the high ranking
commanders like Generals would go into an attack in attack helicopters
vs unarmed civilian ones maybe?
An eyewitness account;
"The five-hour attack began early in the evening of 16 March 1988,
following a series of random attacks using rocket and napalm, when Iraqi
Mirage [FRENCH] aircraft began dropping chemical bombs on Halabja's
residential areas, far from the besieged Iraqi army base on the
outskirts of the town.
An Iraqi aircraft conducted up to 20 bombings in sorties of seven to
eight planes each; HELICOPTERS coordinating the operation were also
seen."
-------------------------------------
The US sold Iraq 60 unarmed civilian use helicopters which were
confiscated during their war by the military for VIP transport.
None were *ever* armed, why do a half-ass foolish attempt to make it
into an attack helicopter when you are already supplied with 2 of the
World's best *ATTACK* helicopters?
Iraq's attack helicopter force was Russian and French.
From the Russians a large number of the Mil-24 Hind *ATTACK*
helicopters *armed* with cannon and missiles and it is reported that
some had chemical weapon sprayers.
From the French a large number of Gazelle *ATTACK* helicopters.
And with the French against International Law suppling spare parts for
their jets and helicopters during the 10 year embargo on Iraq.
chatnoir
Apr 12, 2013, 3:27:31 PM4/12/13
to
On Apr 12, 10:42 am, paradisel...@webtv.net (Poetic Justice) wrote:
> charnoir wrote;
>
> >http://www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137
> >html [Snip]
> >http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/06/17
> >how-reagan-armed-saddam-with-chemica
> >-weapons/ [Snip]
>
> So your *fact cites* are from 2 private citizens both with a bias,
> agendas, etc and on the fringe of society?
>
> www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137.html
>
> >"Personal meeting between Saddam and
> >Rumsfeld American poison gas for
> >Saddam,..."
> >"American Secretary of Defense Donald
> >Rumsfeld took care of it that American
> >companies started to deliver poison gas to
> >Iraq."
>
> It's one person's article that he wrote and posted on his own website.
So?
> charnoir wrote;
>
> >http://www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137
> >html [Snip]
> >http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/06/17
> >how-reagan-armed-saddam-with-chemica
> >-weapons/ [Snip]
>
> So your *fact cites* are from 2 private citizens both with a bias,
> agendas, etc and on the fringe of society?
>
> www.deepjournal.com/p/7/a/en/137.html
>
> >"Personal meeting between Saddam and
> >Rumsfeld American poison gas for
> >Saddam,..."
> >"American Secretary of Defense Donald
> >Rumsfeld took care of it that American
> >companies started to deliver poison gas to
> >Iraq."
>
> It's one person's article that he wrote and posted on his own website.
>
> It is only his *claim* which he doesn't back-up with *facts*, as there
> are none to support his two statements or he would have used them.
>
> I could put up a website and claim that Rumsfeld and Saddam were lovers,
> that doesn't make it a fact.
personal web istes!
>
> Do you not understand the difference?
to that!
>
> That man Daan de Wit is intelligent and successful (media, books) in the
> Netherlands.
>
> But he is also a conspiracy nut and a 9/11 Truther, you think he's a
> good source for you to cite just because it supports what *You* want to
> believe?
>
Poetic Justice
Apr 12, 2013, 7:20:25 PM4/12/13
to
>[It's one person's article that he wrote and
>posted on his own website.]
chatnoir wrote;
>So?
So?.... I assume you believe everything on any person's website *without
facts, proof, evidence*?
If you do, Ancient Aliens built the Pyramids and Stonehedge.
And my earlier post, now on the Google Usenet Archives' website is a
fact that Rumsfeld and Saddam were lovers?
Or is it a "So?" like, I don't want to hear about facts, proof or
evidence that effects my views that *I* cannot possibly prove?
>[It is only his *claim* which he doesn't
conspiracy nutcase website? Are you serious!!!
There is zero proof that the US or *anyone* send 'Poison Gas' to Iraq.
No paper trail, no 1st hand accounts (civilian, military) people talk
esp years later and NONE was found that could be traced back to the US
or anyone. NOTHING! ZERO!
But yet this joker *claims* he knows exactly what Rumsfeld and Saddam's
private conversation was decades ago and what resulted because of it.
And *you* believe it! And you see nothing wrong with your reasoning?
AMAZING!
>"Personal meeting between Saddam and
>Rumsfeld American poison gas for
>Saddam,..."
>"American Secretary of Defense Donald
>Rumsfeld took care of it that American
>companies started to deliver poison gas to
>Iraq."
I *did not* say 'Counterpunch' was a personal website, I even give the
damn link for the original story that they ran on their radical and very
popular website!
I called 'Deep Journal' a personal website.
Now you tell me who the "personal" owner of Deep Journal's website is?
Right at the top of the Homepage "Follow Daan De Wit on Twitter" with
*nobody* else mentioned.
Click-on 'About' on the Homepage
www.deepjournal.com/p/58.html
On the 1st line.
"DeepJournal is made by Daan de Wit."
With *his* photo in *his* and only *his* bio!
And not only is he intelligent and successful, he's also a very handsome
man but he's still a conspiracy nut and a 9/11 Truther.
And he has posted 1500 of *his* own articles on *his* own website.
>[Do you not understand the difference?]
>I understand the US government willl not
>put up a web site admitting to that!
Admitting To What! False claims because wingnuts like you and him
believe them?
Nobody sent Saddam intact chemical weapon gases or liquids or intact
chemical weapons...Nobody!
West German companies (like Karl Kolb) built 7 chemical weapon factories
*IN* Iraq.
The Iraqis manufactured the chemical weapons with German help and then
put them in artillary shells and aircraft bombs and they were all
delivered by Non-US made military weapons to gas the Iranians and the
Kurds.
Those are the Facts they are proven!
They are not some Bullshit claims made on websites by one person sitting
at a computer who ignores all the proven physical, 1st hand accounts and
paper trail evidence and then just makes-up their own "facts" for their
personal agendas.
>posted on his own website.]
chatnoir wrote;
>So?
So?.... I assume you believe everything on any person's website *without
facts, proof, evidence*?
If you do, Ancient Aliens built the Pyramids and Stonehedge.
And my earlier post, now on the Google Usenet Archives' website is a
fact that Rumsfeld and Saddam were lovers?
Or is it a "So?" like, I don't want to hear about facts, proof or
evidence that effects my views that *I* cannot possibly prove?
>[It is only his *claim* which he doesn't
>back-up with *facts*, as there are none to
>support his two statements or he would
>have used them.]
>You expect the government to accept
>responsibliety for that?
Responsibility For What! What some Dutch guy *claims* on a *his*
>support his two statements or he would
>have used them.]
>You expect the government to accept
>responsibliety for that?
conspiracy nutcase website? Are you serious!!!
There is zero proof that the US or *anyone* send 'Poison Gas' to Iraq.
No paper trail, no 1st hand accounts (civilian, military) people talk
esp years later and NONE was found that could be traced back to the US
or anyone. NOTHING! ZERO!
But yet this joker *claims* he knows exactly what Rumsfeld and Saddam's
private conversation was decades ago and what resulted because of it.
And *you* believe it! And you see nothing wrong with your reasoning?
AMAZING!
>"Personal meeting between Saddam and
>Rumsfeld American poison gas for
>Saddam,..."
>"American Secretary of Defense Donald
>Rumsfeld took care of it that American
>companies started to deliver poison gas to
>Iraq."
>What personal website? Neither Deep
>Journal or Counterpunch are personal
>web istes!
Read what I wrote! And not what you want to believe I wrote.
>Journal or Counterpunch are personal
>web istes!
I *did not* say 'Counterpunch' was a personal website, I even give the
damn link for the original story that they ran on their radical and very
popular website!
I called 'Deep Journal' a personal website.
Now you tell me who the "personal" owner of Deep Journal's website is?
Right at the top of the Homepage "Follow Daan De Wit on Twitter" with
*nobody* else mentioned.
Click-on 'About' on the Homepage
www.deepjournal.com/p/58.html
On the 1st line.
"DeepJournal is made by Daan de Wit."
With *his* photo in *his* and only *his* bio!
And not only is he intelligent and successful, he's also a very handsome
man but he's still a conspiracy nut and a 9/11 Truther.
And he has posted 1500 of *his* own articles on *his* own website.
>[Do you not understand the difference?]
>I understand the US government willl not
>put up a web site admitting to that!
believe them?
Nobody sent Saddam intact chemical weapon gases or liquids or intact
chemical weapons...Nobody!
West German companies (like Karl Kolb) built 7 chemical weapon factories
*IN* Iraq.
The Iraqis manufactured the chemical weapons with German help and then
put them in artillary shells and aircraft bombs and they were all
delivered by Non-US made military weapons to gas the Iranians and the
Kurds.
Those are the Facts they are proven!
They are not some Bullshit claims made on websites by one person sitting
at a computer who ignores all the proven physical, 1st hand accounts and
paper trail evidence and then just makes-up their own "facts" for their
personal agendas.
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