Nothing But A Bunch Of Lackeys

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Charles Mauro

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May 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/10/99
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In a world that enters the ring to do battle with the no holds barred
strategy and tactics of the Texas Death Match our lackey leadership chooses
to apply the Marquis of Queensberry rules.

Very costly for us all!

Kirby Urner

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May 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/10/99
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Does this make any sense? If you hadn't noticed, the only contender
in the ring right now is NATO -- everyone else is in the stands,
either watching in disgust or still struggling to suspend disbelief.

Yugoslavia was mostly doing a propaganda war, but that proved too
damaging to egos in Brussels, so the TV towers were taken out -- a
cowardly maneuver that even shocked some of my battle-hardened Marines
as those were clearly civilian targets -- either that or we'll have
to surrender the idea of a civilian media in the USA as well (martial
law just around the corner in that case (dissidents, kiss your families,
and your Bill of Rights, good-bye))).

So mostly the vultures are just circling, looking leaner and meaner
by the day (hungry for long-denied, grossly misallocated resources),
while NATO shoots itself in the foot again and again and again. Such
a protracted and pathetic display of moronic stupidity we have rarely
seen enacted full bore like this. If "survival of the fittest" is a
criterion, then NATO is clearly not designed to last -- should have
been dissolved years ago, as a confidance building measure.

Of course the forced evacuation of noncombatants from Kosovo was pretty
ugly, not to mention incomplete. The KLA and Yugo police didn't have
much time before the bombs started raining down, but lots of families
got to the camps as per plan, leaving the armed to kill and be killed
(weapons as easy to get in the Balkans as Colorado). Easier to die for
your country when you know the wife and kids are out of harm's way.

Kosovo is no place for civilians these days, so long as NATO is on a
high altitude killing spree (hard to see what all those little ants
are doing down there -- better take 'em out). With all the talk of
ground troops going in (egged on my pundits of all stripes), the
time for "ethnic cleansing" (aka removal of noncombatants) was part
of the critical path. Of course if they stay they're "human shields"
-- grist for the propaganda mill either way. Better that they go
in any case, even at gun point -- more humanitarian to get this
killing field cleared of noncombatants at least (anyway, that was
my goal -- with repatriation to follow, for those so wishing).

Sure, the scene would have been less ugly if NATO had been better
prepared with support logistics for our not so happy campers, but
it was more important to the State Department to use the Kosovars
as pawns, to dramatize their suffering -- which propaganda campaign
only backfired, given NATO was in charge of living standards once
the border was crossed. Again, more intelligent planning from
MI-5 (among others) was ignored by the politicians, who think
they know better (guffaw).

If you check Deja News, you'll find my AFSC was drawing up contin-
gency plans for noncombatant evaculation long ago, but for a much
better funded and well-orchestrated effort (penny pinchers in DC
want all the money for bombs -- "collateral" never rates, even
in this country, where civilians get the table scraps). We also
have high tech GIS/GPS-enabled peacekeeping gear waiting in the
wings, which could go in once the bombing stops, even with USA
logos affixed, given the USA is not NATO, is not synonymous with
the bogus policies hatched by DC's most incompetent and corrupt.

Highly ironic that the CIA is now getting the blame for the phoney
baloney thinking behind this charge into oblivion, led by supreme
bozos in chief, and especially for using bogus world maps. As if
all our decades of investment in world game and the Fuller Projection
(most precise ever) meant nothing. As if we'd give NATO the time
of day, let alone any spatiotemporal targetting coordinates. We
offered a life line, sure, but not a shovel for digging yet deeper
graves. Our USA is not enslaved to some alien Europower designated
with alien insignia, so sorry.

My friends in China see right through this blaming of the CIA for
NATO's blunders, by the way. We didn't just start advising Chinese
intelligence of our long range plans only yesterday. Chinese have
access to the same declassified open sources as we do. This is not
about keeping big secrets from the American people, but about media
"know it alls" refusing to let go of an obsolete knee-jerk political
bias -- their problem, then, to regain their own credibility, to
explain to the kids why the cover-up for so long. I see no credible
excuses myself.

Clueless DCers are among the last to realize that their "last/only
superpower" megadeath scenario planning is what's irrelevant on
the world stage. They can strut and puff their hour upon the stage,
but idiocy is idiocy -- not something the CIA or anyone else can
redeem at the bank counter. Counterfeit is counterfeit, phoney
is phoney. It doesn't really matter what your meaning of "is" is.

Kirby
Russia Desk

Linked from:
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/bosnia.html
http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/ngpost.html

Kirby Urner

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May 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/10/99
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I customized this post for high school teachers and reposted
it to misc.education and sci.philosophy.meta. This "educational
edition" is the one I'll link from the aforementioned web pages.

Kirby

See: http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/dymax.html for related
reading. Also http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/grunch.html

Kirby Urner

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May 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/10/99
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Ended up with a web version -- more control over hyperlinks
and typos than with the DejaNews strategy (which works well
too).

I wired up my "circuit diagram" of an Earthala-sponsored
refugee evacuation center from Aug 28 1998, as well as to
a graphic under "peacekeeping gear".

Under the Project Renaissance model, Hollywood is supposed
to be dramatizing/recruiting for this less cowardly new world,
so that more of our brightest have some options. Behind
schedule (still stuck in 'Star Wars' mythos, DC-style).

Today we mostly channel 'em into well-worn ruts, make 'em run
a geezers' gauntlet; as the "adults" (authoritarians in
particular) are loathe to lose control over the narrative,
which'd tend to penetrate their not so brave "know it all"
defenses.

Kirby


Filip De Vos

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May 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/11/99
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Kirby Urner (ur...@alumni.princeton.edu) wrote:

[snip]
: Kosovo is no place for civilians these days, so long as NATO is on a

: high altitude killing spree (hard to see what all those little ants
: are doing down there -- better take 'em out). With all the talk of
: ground troops going in (egged on my pundits of all stripes), the
: time for "ethnic cleansing" (aka removal of noncombatants) was part
: of the critical path. Of course if they stay they're "human shields"

Yes, you can't have civilians deciding for themselves, can you. Only the
boys with (lethal) toys can do that.

: -- grist for the propaganda mill either way. Better that they go

: in any case, even at gun point -- more humanitarian to get this
: killing field cleared of noncombatants at least (anyway, that was
: my goal -- with repatriation to follow, for those so wishing).


[snip]
: Highly ironic that the CIA is now getting the blame for the phoney


: baloney thinking behind this charge into oblivion, led by supreme

Ahem. The CIA seems to have been blamed for right-wing mayhem about
everywhere in South and Central America.

: bozos in chief, and especially for using bogus world maps. As if

I remember that after the IDF bombarded a UN post in Lebanon, around which
civilian refugees had sought shelter, the same excuse about wrong maps was
given. This despite that the Israelis had invaded Lebanon a couple of
times. Also, an unmanned drone was seen buzzing around the blue-hats.
My conclusion is that what is really shown is not an excuse (nobody
can beleive that the Isrealis have wrong maps about Lebanon), but simply a
brazen contempt for civilians. Another episode that comes to mind was when
in Somalia, after Pakistani tanks had been ambushed, the USArmy shot up
the place with cobra antitank helicopters.

An Army major of the helicopter unit in question then brazenly asserted
that people who are 'present' at an ambush are therefore 'combatants',
even if they are pregnant women, tending babies or simply visiting the
local market. Also, he did not explain why an antitank helicopter was an
appropriate weapon to use against said marketwoman.

: all our decades of investment in world game and the Fuller Projection


: (most precise ever) meant nothing. As if we'd give NATO the time
: of day, let alone any spatiotemporal targetting coordinates. We

I thought that NATO should have been abolished, 'mission completed'.
Unfortunately the Law of Parkinson intervened. NATO has anyway allready a
long time been a political beastie, at least since they brought in
Spain.

: offered a life line, sure, but not a shovel for digging yet deeper

: graves. Our USA is not enslaved to some alien Europower designated
: with alien insignia, so sorry.

: My friends in China see right through this blaming of the CIA for
: NATO's blunders, by the way. We didn't just start advising Chinese
: intelligence of our long range plans only yesterday. Chinese have
: access to the same declassified open sources as we do. This is not
: about keeping big secrets from the American people, but about media
: "know it alls" refusing to let go of an obsolete knee-jerk political
: bias -- their problem, then, to regain their own credibility, to
: explain to the kids why the cover-up for so long. I see no credible
: excuses myself.

: Clueless DCers are among the last to realize that their "last/only

Who ever put Madeleine Allbright in charge there? Recent events in America
have put doubts in my mind as to the method of choosing top
decisionmakers...

: superpower" megadeath scenario planning is what's irrelevant on

: the world stage. They can strut and puff their hour upon the stage,
: but idiocy is idiocy -- not something the CIA or anyone else can
: redeem at the bank counter. Counterfeit is counterfeit, phoney
: is phoney. It doesn't really matter what your meaning of "is" is.


--
Filip De Vos FilipP...@rug.ac.be

There are plenty of ways to empty a solar system.
-- John S. Lewis --

Kirby Urner

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May 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/11/99
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fid...@eduserv1.rug.ac.be (Filip De Vos) wrote:

>Kirby Urner (ur...@alumni.princeton.edu) wrote:
>
>[snip]

>: Kosovo is no place for civilians these days, so long as NATO is on a

>: high altitude killing spree (hard to see what all those little ants
>: are doing down there -- better take 'em out). With all the talk of
>: ground troops going in (egged on my pundits of all stripes), the
>: time for "ethnic cleansing" (aka removal of noncombatants) was part
>: of the critical path. Of course if they stay they're "human shields"
>

>Yes, you can't have civilians deciding for themselves, can you. Only the
>boys with (lethal) toys can do that.
>

Many made their own decisions, many stayed. Very confusing to be on
the ground in Kosovo while stuff catches fire all around you. Not
always clear what's a bomb, what's a tank hit etc. But what is clear
(to many) is it's definitely time to get out. Or stay and fight to
defend the homeland (whichever one -- homelands tend to get sort of
mixed together in that region, kinda like in LA (lotsa armed gangs)).

>: -- grist for the propaganda mill either way. Better that they go

>: in any case, even at gun point -- more humanitarian to get this
>: killing field cleared of noncombatants at least (anyway, that was
>: my goal -- with repatriation to follow, for those so wishing).
>
>

>[snip]
>: Highly ironic that the CIA is now getting the blame for the phoney


>: baloney thinking behind this charge into oblivion, led by supreme
>

>Ahem. The CIA seems to have been blamed for right-wing mayhem about
>everywhere in South and Central America.
>

As well it should, given how many right wingers placed the CIA behind
their covert operations at some level (from Ollie North on up). This
time the right-wing was not on board however, given the Clintonistas
were leading the charge -- it's the Republican right which is saying
"give peace a chance" a lot these days.

>: bozos in chief, and especially for using bogus world maps. As if

>
>I remember that after the IDF bombarded a UN post in Lebanon, around which
>civilian refugees had sought shelter, the same excuse about wrong maps was
>given. This despite that the Israelis had invaded Lebanon a couple of
>times. Also, an unmanned drone was seen buzzing around the blue-hats.
>My conclusion is that what is really shown is not an excuse (nobody
>can beleive that the Isrealis have wrong maps about Lebanon), but simply a
>brazen contempt for civilians. Another episode that comes to mind was when
>in Somalia, after Pakistani tanks had been ambushed, the USArmy shot up
>the place with cobra antitank helicopters.

I agree the "bogus maps" excuse is over used. Have to study the
situation case by case. Sometimes the maps really are poorly
triangulated -- may result in friendly fire.

>An Army major of the helicopter unit in question then brazenly asserted
>that people who are 'present' at an ambush are therefore 'combatants',
>even if they are pregnant women, tending babies or simply visiting the
>local market. Also, he did not explain why an antitank helicopter was an
>appropriate weapon to use against said marketwoman.

Typical explanation. All the more reason to evacuate the refugees
while there was still time -- given all the helicopters getting set
to go in and shoot up whatever's left.

>: Clueless DCers are among the last to realize that their "last/only

>
>Who ever put Madeleine Allbright in charge there? Recent events in America
>have put doubts in my mind as to the method of choosing top
>decisionmakers...
>

No kidding. I saw her on The Simpsons the other night, judging how
low people could go -- fitting. Stephen Hawking represented the other
end of the spectrum.

Kirby


Kirby Urner

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May 12, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/12/99
to

>The Serbs are saying the CIA recycled the same refugees over and
>over, in some elaborate propaganda ploy funded through secret
>Swiss bank accounts (CBS Evening News, May 11, 1999). NATO calls
>this the "sick joke of the year". What gives?
>

Yeah, well, the creaky old Serbian propaganda machine is trying
its best to crank it out. Can't blame them for trying (really,
that was a supremely cowardly move to hit the TV towers -- I
agree with my Marines). Some truth in their story, as grist
for the mill certainly, but mostly chaff -- that's what most
wartime propaganda is made of after all (94.5% hokum).

700K+ civilians out of a war zone in advance of a ground
offensive -- no way is that a minor accomplishment. I only wish
we'd managed to evacuate everyone, before NATO starts rolling
its tanks towards Belgrade, as per the play bill we've all been
reading (Appendix B, whatever).

Of course NATO's hits and misses account for a share of the
carnage in Kosovo (as elsewhere) -- this is no secret. NATO
itself has already expressed any amount of regret over this
-- all the while reminding itself not to get skittish of course.

The CIA saw this same psychology operating in Vietnam -- not a
big mystery why the removal of noncombatants might percolate
to the top of the priorities list. Both DCI Tenet and the
Joint Chiefs were telling Congress we had a blood bath to look
forward to come this spring (where we're up to by now). Small
wonder that some planning and forethought went into addressing
this likelihood.

Of course both Brussels and Belgrade have wanted to make the
mass evacuation of Kosovo a key card in their hand. Actually,
the Yugo government has mostly denied the mass exodus until
now, are even today clinging to the idea of double and triple
head counts. Blaming the CIA will certainly be convenient for
them -- won't prevent any war crimes investigations though.

For its part, NATO has done a terrible job of making the camps
a showcase for western brand names, as per CIA storyboards.
Kellogs got into the act a little, but that's about it. So
many product placement opportunities ignored. Nor did the
Anglo politicos pick up on the cues from MI-5, and press the
QE2 into service. That would have been good advertising as well.

So a lot of the "show biz" which Belgrade now accuses the CIA
of scripting is more in the "we wish" category. Anyone tracking
alt.politics.org.cia saw my repeated calls for geodesic domes
for the camps (Geometrica, Temcor...). Obviously this was a
bit of stagecraft on behalf of USA capitalism, would have been
good for the shareholders -- but corporate socialism is more
the order of the day around here (unfortunately); lots of CEO-
wimps used to being coddled by Congress. So we never got to
that page in the script. Too late now. Maybe next time.

I'm still hopeful we can get a lot more civilians out before
the Apaches go in. NATO's "hell on earth" next chapter
('Saving Private Ryan' on steriods) isn't going to be any
prettier than this last, which was already pretty horrific.
Based on our Vietnam experience, it'd only be smart to get
every last noncombatant to safe ground, pronto, before
continuing with whatever it is NATO thinks it's doing over
there (something my colleagues and I are still trying to
second guess).

Kirby
[on vacation from the]
Russia Desk


PS: I'll tack this on to my earlier posting re this thread
at http://www.inetarena.com/~pdx4d/afsc/fp.html for future
reference.

PPS: this is not an operation I have all that much to do
with these days. I'm on paid vacation right now -- spent
much of the day trying to get Sierra Power Chess to work
on my Pentium (purchased at Office Depot for $12.99), plus
picked up a used Canon BJC-600 for $50). Failed with the
chess installation. Something to do with the DirectX drivers
I think (grabbed the latest from Microsoft, but still no
cigar). Plus still have plenty of other projects going with
my business clients and teacher trainees these days (my
4D Solutions and Oregon Curriculum Network respectively).
Like I posted above, I'm a busy guy these days -- not
much time for internet.


Filip De Vos

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May 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/14/99
to
Kirby Urner (ur...@alumni.princeton.edu) wrote:

: fid...@eduserv1.rug.ac.be (Filip De Vos) wrote:

: >Kirby Urner (ur...@alumni.princeton.edu) wrote:
: >
: >[snip]

: >[snip]
: >: Highly ironic that the CIA is now getting the blame for the phoney


: >: baloney thinking behind this charge into oblivion, led by supreme

: >
: >Ahem. The CIA seems to have been blamed for right-wing mayhem about


: >everywhere in South and Central America.
: >

: As well it should, given how many right wingers placed the CIA behind
: their covert operations at some level (from Ollie North on up). This
: time the right-wing was not on board however, given the Clintonistas
: were leading the charge -- it's the Republican right which is saying
: "give peace a chance" a lot these days.

I have some trouble to see 'the CIA' as some contractor-for-hire in the
service of Republican right wingers, respectively Clintonistas. Care to
elaborate?

: >: bozos in chief, and especially for using bogus world maps. As if
: >
: >I remember that after the IDF bombarded a UN post in Lebanon, around which


: >civilian refugees had sought shelter, the same excuse about wrong maps was
: >given. This despite that the Israelis had invaded Lebanon a couple of
: >times. Also, an unmanned drone was seen buzzing around the blue-hats.
: >My conclusion is that what is really shown is not an excuse (nobody
: >can beleive that the Isrealis have wrong maps about Lebanon), but simply a
: >brazen contempt for civilians. Another episode that comes to mind was when
: >in Somalia, after Pakistani tanks had been ambushed, the USArmy shot up
: >the place with cobra antitank helicopters.

: I agree the "bogus maps" excuse is over used. Have to study the
: situation case by case. Sometimes the maps really are poorly
: triangulated -- may result in friendly fire.

Sometimes in the past, yes. Right now, multiple sensors feed data into
Geographical Information Systems (mapped to geodesic models of the
earth) which can deliver information (including targetting info) to any
platform, in real time. At least that what is now keeping weapons
designers awake. Different systems may not yet be able to communicate with
each other, but my guess is that state-of-the-art equipment is used by
US/NATO armed forces...

And in the above example (IDF shoots up Lebanon), an unmanned drone was
seen flying around the UN post, just before or during the artillery
barrage. Also, The Blue-hats radioed the Israelis that they were under
fire and so were the civilians around their camp. The bombardment
continued for quite some time. Sounds pretty deliberate to me.

Kirby Urner

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May 14, 1999, 3:00:00 AM5/14/99
to
fid...@eduserv1.rug.ac.be (Filip De Vos) wrote:

>I have some trouble to see 'the CIA' as some contractor-for-hire in the
>service of Republican right wingers, respectively Clintonistas. Care to
>elaborate?

Not sure re what's your question. A lot of people doing business with
the CIA are contractors of one kind or another. "For hire" with respect
to a political party is not technically correct however. Agencies of
the government do not "contract" with elected officials or their
appointees.

The government gets staffed by the people, who supposedly govern for
the people, which unfortunately often means "for their friends, and
against their enemies" -- even where these political enemies may
likewise be USA citizens with the same protected rights, at least
on paper.

What's true is that presidents often expect the CIA to carry out
their policies by covert means, be that president leftish or rightish.
I think probably the politically conservative are stereotypically
more identified with covert action agendas (e.g. Reagan-Casey)
because of an idea that liberals value a high degree of openness in
government and therefore at least feign disapproval of clandestine
services (e.g. Carter did not have a close relationship with his
DCI, Admiral Turner).

In a lot of ways, this just makes liberals all that more hypocritical,
if they then go sneaking around and doing things covertly. But then
some brands of liberal (well known brands) consider covert ops against
foreign targets unproblematic -- covert ops overseas is what makes
the world safe for a Bill of Rights type of society domestically (or
something like that).

Certainly the Kennedy brothers had high expectations of what the CIA
could do for them -- expectations encouraged by the Dulles brothers.
Their profound disillusionment came later, when Castro stayed in power.

Any president who develops a "thing" for some foreign leader, doesn't
want that leader to lead, tends to blame the CIA for not "fixing" the
situation -- because the CIA is supposed to have this quasi-mythical
power to just overthrow regimes a president doesn't like, by whatever
sources and methods we don't want to talk about.

I think by this time most people realize that the CIA isn't a tool
for brute force approaches to problematic situations -- which doesn't
mean it can't be effective against foreign regimes (especially if
people under that regime likewise consider it oppressive and are
willing to collaborate with the USA or other outside service to
topple it (in the case of Castro, a lot of this supposed "colla-
borators" turned out to be double agents)).

Other parts of government make brute force their specialty -- partly
why it was a mistake to simply assume the CIA was cozying up to NATO,
given the latter's prediliction for brute force strategies (maybe
the DIA is playing along, but the CIA is not the DIA, even if the
DCI considers both part of the same IC network (some maybe confuse
the DI with the DIA, but both the DI and DO are under the CIA's
executive director -- e.g. Nora Slatkin when DCI Deutch was running
things -- whereas the DIA is not (last I checked anyway)).[1]

Maintaining a global network of informants involves behaving
intelligently, showing off a USA government that works, has style.
This is where the LeCarre image of the "gentleman spy" comes from
(and of course a spy is at least as likely to be a woman).

Of course LeCarre more often writes about Brits, who sterotypically
view their CIA counterparts as somewhat boorish (too Klingon maybe).

I don't think I've said anything very new or original here. Maybe
none of this answers your question, I don't know.

>: I agree the "bogus maps" excuse is over used. Have to study the
>: situation case by case. Sometimes the maps really are poorly
>: triangulated -- may result in friendly fire.
>
>Sometimes in the past, yes. Right now, multiple sensors feed data into
>Geographical Information Systems (mapped to geodesic models of the
>earth) which can deliver information (including targetting info) to any
>platform, in real time. At least that what is now keeping weapons
>designers awake. Different systems may not yet be able to communicate with
>each other, but my guess is that state-of-the-art equipment is used by
>US/NATO armed forces...

This sounds right in theory, but of course these "sensors" are
somewhat passive, and lots of "targets" don't emit any signature
signals (which would be stupid, if their effectiveness depends on
remaining concealed).

The central problem is that we have all the tools necessary to
implement a new golden age, a Renaissance in the civilian sector,
as per my synopsis at http://www.teleport.com/~pdx4d/pr.html.

But if all our high technology keeps getting diverted into WMDs
and other destructive endeavours, then we'll simply have wrecked
the profitability of our own econosphere -- means we simply didn't
have the smarts to behave intelligently as a species, and will
therefore efficiently wipe ourselves off the planet, as per
nature's way with failed experiments.

From my point of view, anything calling itself an "intelligence
agency" (let alone "central") is by definition not screaming for
yet more brute force "solutions" (of which we already have way
too many). "Intelligence" means not failing as a species, or at
least giving it our best shot, preserving something valuable
for coming generations.

I don't really care if that sounds "pie in the sky" to the
cynically-minded (or "monkey brained" as the case may be) -- it's
simply common sense in most cultures, and those which don't agree
are psychopathological in my book.

What the new technology offers is the prospect of sufficient
surveillance capability coupled with high-enough bandwidth
communications, to forestall hot wars, to keep the conflicts
psychological in nature (and psywar is the kind of war at which
the CIA supposedly excels).

The new technology will help keep people from indulging in silly
paranoias and pre-emptively doing things that they'll only live to
regret (if they live at all). It will also allow us to discover
any "mad scientist" plans to unleash new "hell on earth" scenarios
(the FBI scans for "mad scientists" domestically, the CIA more
overseas, in collaboration with other services and international
police agencies).

Kirby


[1] Nora came from a background in defense, as did DCI Deutch.
Some of us called her "the Vulcan Queen" or something like that.
She was a tough cookie -- smart too.


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