Afraid of 'socialized' medicine? We've had it for decades
Harry Hope
http://www.kentucky.com/latest_news/story/902829.html
Thursday, Aug. 20, 2009
Afraid of 'socialized' medicine? We've had it for decades
By Tom Eblen - Herald-leader columnist
There's a fascinating audio clip on YouTube.
It's from a 1961 phonograph record in which a politically ambitious
entertainer named Ronald Reagan tries his best to scare people about
"socialized medicine."
The threat he warns about is legislation to create the program we now
know as Medicare.
So here we are, nearly a half-century later, with talk radio
entertainers and some Republican politicians trying their best to
scare people about "socialized medicine."
They see a threat in almost any meaningful reform of America's
inadequate health care insurance system.
Some of their scare tactics, such as baseless claims about plans for
"death panels," are truly outrageous.
Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin might actually believe some of the
crazy things she says, but other GOP leaders who lend legitimacy to
such hogwash are simply seeking political advantage.
They seem to have no interest in improving health care; only in seeing
President Barack Obama fail.
What makes the recent tone of the national health care debate so
ridiculous is that Americans have had "socialized medicine" for
decades, and it has worked pretty well.
The popular Medicare program that Ronald Reagan warned against � and
later tried to deny he ever opposed � covers 43 million people who are
disabled or age 65 and older.
Then there's government health care for veterans and insurance for
public employees.
Members of Congress have especially good government health care plans.
My biggest fear about health care reform is that we won't get any.
My biggest concern about Obama's approach is that it isn't ambitious
enough, especially now that he seems willing to give up on a
government insurance option.
There are many improvements that can be made in our current system
with electronic medical records and various cost-containment
strategies.
But I think the long-term solution is some form of single-payer health
insurance involving privately delivered medical care � like Medicare.
Why wouldn't it work to open Medicare, or something like it, to more
people?
That could provide a safety net.
Then, individuals or groups could buy supplemental private insurance
if they wanted more coverage and could afford it, as Medicare
recipients often do.
Every major industrialized nation except ours has some form of
universal health care.
Are the "socialized medicine" systems in Canada, Australia, Britain
and other European nations perfect?
Of course not.
But here's what you see in the United States that you don't see in
those countries:
millions of people with no health care coverage.
That includes nearly 600,000 Kentuckians, or 14 percent of the state's
population, according to U.S. Census estimates.
Here's what else you don't see in those countries:
Millions more people who are scared of losing health insurance
coverage if they get sick or lose their job.
People who can't get coverage because of "pre-existing" conditions.
And people who see their life savings depleted because they get sick.
You also don't see businesses struggling to pay spiraling health care
costs for employees and retirees while trying to compete in an
increasingly global economy with foreign businesses that don't bear
such burdens.
Talk show entertainers and Republican partisans have done an effective
job of whipping up the frightened, ill-informed citizens we see at
public meetings and protests across the country.
But if they want to rant about "socialized medicine," they should put
their money where their mouths are.
Members of Congress who oppose a government health insurance option
for citizens should give up their own government coverage.
Let them try to buy a similar plan in the private market.
Then they, the media hacks and other self-described "freedom-loving
conservatives" should march down to their local Medicare office and
renounce their "socialized medicine" benefits, now and in the future.
Yes, I know. Fat chance.
_________________________________________________________
Yup. Got that right.
Harry
John Q public
So then Harry, by your own premise that our healthcare system is broken
and needs fixin, its the socialist mofel thats broke and needs fixin.
What a quandary Harry, how to fix whats broke with more of the same
Even a 3 year old could tell ya if it don't work, get rid of it for
sumthin that does """"The Free Market""""
bvallely
> Afraid of 'socialized' medicine? We've had it for decades
And it's failed so miserably, that you want to expand it to eve3ryone.
Sid9
"bvallely" <bval...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9e4bb5fa-b742-401d...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
Medicare?
VA?
Medicaid?
SCHIP?
The solution?
Medicare for all!
Simple.
Clean.
It works.
John Q public
So simple, its broke ya dumb fuck, its unsustainable, you could tax
rich at 100% and you still couldn't
pay for it.
The only thing simple is you
Lamont Cranston
>> later tried to deny he ever opposed � covers 43 million
>> are disabled or age 65 and older.
>>
>> Then there's government health care for veterans and
>> insurance for
>> public employees.
>>
>> Members of Congress have especially good government
>> health care
>> plans.
>> My biggest fear about health care reform is that we won't
>> get any.
>>
>> My biggest concern about Obama's approach is that it
>> isn't ambitious
>> enough, especially now that he seems willing to give up
>> on a
>> government insurance option.
>>
>> There are many improvements that can be made in our
>> current system
>> with electronic medical records and various
>> cost-containment
>> strategies.
>>
>> But I think the long-term solution is some form of
>> single-payer
>> health insurance involving privately delivered medical
Reading comprehension is also a problem for you, huh? The
part that is working is the socialist part. The part that
isn't working is the "free market" part.
>
> What a quandary Harry, how to fix whats broke with more of
> the same
>
> Even a 3 year old could tell ya if it don't work, get rid
> of it for
> sumthin that does """"The Free Market""""
Free markets *always* fail. That's why this country long
ago chose a mixture of socialism and regulated capitalism
over laissez-faire capitalism.
Beam Me Up Scotty
Then why have we failed with your Socialism in Mortgages that created
the economic Apocalypse.
Your Affordable housing Socialist program took the economy into the
dumper.....
--
*BE VERY CONCERNED*
Liberals need not live by the rules they intend to force others to live
by.
Dave Fritzinger
> On 2009-08-21 12:33:28 -0400, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net> said:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:9e4bb5fa-b742-401d...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
> >> .
> >>> Afraid of 'socialized' medicine? We've had it for decades
> >> .
> >> And it's failed so miserably, that you want to expand it
> >> to eve3ryone.
>
> > Medicare?
> > VA?
> > Medicaid?
> > SCHIP?
>
> > The solution?
> > Medicare for all!
> > Simple.
> > Clean.
> > It works.
>
> So simple, its broke ya dumb fuck, its unsustainable, you could tax
> rich at 100% and you still couldn't
> pay for it.
> The only thing simple is you
It's broken because it only covers the elderly and the disabled, who
are, by far, the biggest users of healthcare. If it covered everyone,
it wouldn't be broken. The experience of other advanced countries
demonstrates that. But you are so locked up in your ideology that you
won't ever admit that.
tv
> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
Where do you get the money to do it? It will double what we spend on
health care now.
Lamont Cranston
LIE. What caused the economic Apocalypse was laissez-faire
capitalism.
>
> Your Affordable housing Socialist program took the economy
> into the
> dumper.....
LIE. The CRA had absolutely nothing to do with the collapse
of the economy. You're simply spewing out Limbaugh/Hannity
lies again.
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/12/04/dont-blame-cra-the-sequel/
December 4, 2008, 1:45 PM ET
Don�t Blame CRA (The Sequel)
A pair of economists from the Federal Reserve Bank of San
Francisco added another piece of evidence to the case that
the 1977 Community Reinvestment Act wasn�t the cause, or
even a major contributor, to the subprime mortgage debacle.
In a paper focused on California that was presented at a Fed
conference on housing and mortgages in Washington, D.C.,
Elizabeth Laderman and Carolina Reid say the data �should
help to quell if not fully lay to rest the arguments that
the CRA caused the current subprime lending boom by
requiring banks to lend irresponsibly in low and
moderate-income lenders.� Fed governor Randall Kroszner made
a similar case earlier this week.
Among the specific findings in �Lending in Low- and
Moderate-Income Neighborhoods in California: The Performance
of CRA Lending During the Subprime Meltdown�:
a.. Overall, lending to low and moderate income communities
comprised only a small share of toal lending by CRA lenders,
even during the height of the California subprime lending
boom.
a.. Loans originated by lenders regulated under CRA in
general were �significantly less likely to be in
foreclosure� than those originated by independent mortgage
companies that weren�t covered by CRA.
a.. Loans made by CRA lenders within their geographic
assessment areas covered by the law were �half as likely to
go into foreclosure� as those made by the independent
mortgage companies.
a.. 28% of loans made by CRA lenders in low income areas
within their geographic assessment areas were fixed-rate
loans, compared with 18.2% of loans made by independent
mortgage companies in low income areas.
a.. 12% of the loans made by CRA lenders in these areas were
high-priced loans, a technical definition of subprime,
compared with 29% of the loans made by those lenders outside
their assessment areas and 52.4% of loans made by
independent mortgage companies in low-income areas.
Beam Me Up Scotty
Name me a place where Socialism has succeeded for 200 years?
>>> a mixture of socialism and regulated capitalism over laissez-faire
>>> capitalism.
A little liberalism like a little Liquor is a good thing, but when it
takes control, it becomes self destructive like liquor. -Poetic-Justice-
>> Then why have we failed with your Socialism in Mortgages that created
>> the economic Apocalypse.
>
> LIE. What caused the economic Apocalypse was laissez-faire capitalism.
Hey Dipstick, we have had Socialized economic policies for a while, More
regulations every year.... tens of thousands of new laws and
regulations, and it was Affordable housing regulations that created the
sub-prime collapse and then the Dominoes started to fall.
>> Your Affordable housing Socialist program took the economy into the
>> dumper.....
>
> LIE. The CRA had absolutely nothing to do with the collapse of the
> economy. You're simply spewing out Limbaugh/Hannity lies again.
--
*BE VERY CONCERNED*
Liberals aren't for intelligence they're *NOT* pro-choice when it comes
to freedom of where to be educated. - Talk-n-Dog -
Sid9
"Gogarty" <Gog...@Clongowes.edu.ie> wrote in message
news:20090821-1...@Gogarty.news.bway.net...
> In article <2009082113353664440-my2cents@mecom>,
> my2c...@me.com says...
>
It's not broke.
That's another lie.
Medicare for all would charge substantially more per month
than the $96.40 I pay.
They could raise it substantially and still beat the pants
of the private rationed ripofff plan we have going now.
Dave Fritzinger
I believe you are mistaken. The lessons from other countries that have
similar systems shows they spend considerably *less* per person than
we do.
Sid9
"Dave Fritzinger" <dfri...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0410fc9b-e696-4168...@i18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
These are worst risks.
The insurance company sloughed them off on the government
while they keep the gravy
Sid9
"tv" <tjwils...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8bac2f6d-7b88-4b11...@v15g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
You pay premiums....its not free...It will be cheaper then
the crooked insurance companies charge.
More coverage, no preexisting conditions, no being stuck on
a job you hate because of the insurance, no rationing of
health care by companies more concerned with the bottom line
then your health.
It will CUT American's costs
tv
Less per person because medical care will be rationed. The hip
replacement will go to the 40 year old illegal alien rather than the
66 year old woman. Obama's big problem is that she knows it. We will
be replacing the finest medical care system with the worst possible
one.
tv
> "tv" <tjwilson6...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Dream on. You will have a rude awakening shortly.
Dave Fritzinger
You do know that you are lying, don't you? Or are you so full of the
Kool Aide that you no longer know the difference between truth and
fiction?
Sid9
That's a lie.
The only rationing going on is in HMOs and PPOs and by
insurance companies.
We don't have the "finest" medical system. That's a lie
We have the MOST expensive system in the world...That's the
truth.
and
With all the money we spend, we are #37....that's the truth.
Socialized medicine France and Italy are #1 and # 2
respectively. That's the truth
How many time do I have to post these facts before it
penetrates your RRR skull?
Sid9
You oppose for the sake of opposing.
You have no facts.....if you believe the shit you've been
fed you're fool...otherwise you're a liar
bvallely
>
> news:9e4bb5fa-b742-401d...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
>
> > .
> >> Afraid of 'socialized' medicine? We've had it for decades
> > .
> > And it's failed so miserably, that you want to expand it
> > to eve3ryone.
> Medicare?
> VA?
> Medicaid?
> SCHIP?
.
Dismal failures..
.
> The solution?
> Medicare for all!
> Simple.
> Clean.
> It works.
And how are we supposed to pay for all that? Obama, just today,
admitted that his spending will cost the Amerincan people YET ANOTHER
200 BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
bvallely
> >The only thing simple is you
> And your solution is...?
.
Let's go for the obvious solutions first. Put caps on healthcare
lawsuits. That would drastically cut back (by as much as 25%) of all
testing. It would keep doctors on the health field.
Doesn't cost anything, and produces a great deal of benefits.
Oh, wait, the Democrats are in the trail lawyer's pockets, aren't
they?
Sid9
Premiums....like the money we pay the crooked insurance
companies
Sid9
Exaggerated cost by the liars who oppose health care reform.
John Q public
> In article <2009082113353664440-my2cents@mecom>, my2c...@me.com says...
> And your solution is...?
1. Tort reform utilizing best practices as a haven for doctors to
rationalize malpractice suits and
reduce needless testing strictly done for malpractice defense not
patient need.
2. Open up competition across state lines
3. Redefine way not for profits work (Huge lobbying group here) as they
are in most cases
definitely for profit and send out huge amounts donations to both
parties to keep it that way
4. Require big pharma to sell drugs to us at same price they sell it
overseas (With some provisions
for 3rd world countries being somewhat exempt) Canada, Europe all
price control the drugs
they buy at lower rate than US pays so we are technically
subsidizing their nationalized
health care systems.
5. Provide a catastrophic rider for the 12-15 million actual
uninsurable which is a basic what is
needed fix
6. Require people receiving abortions via govt. expense to pay it back
via low cost loan rather than
public subsidy
Just a few, most things don't cost a dime, keep government out of yer
wallet and go after the truly responsible
John Q public
Sid, yer a fucking racist idiot, why do you even post! Do you like the
rectal aftertaste
of yer continual O'bamalicks or do you enjoy getting slammed for the
ignorant fool you really are
bvallely
poor? From people who just don't want to pay?
bvallely
> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> news:ffe615be-1e75-433d...@i8g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > .
> >> >The only thing simple is you
> > .
> >> And your solution is...?
> > .
> > Let's go for the obvious solutions first. Put caps on
> > healthcare
> > lawsuits. That would drastically cut back (by as much as
> > 25%) of all
> > testing. It would keep doctors on the health field.
.
> > Doesn't cost anything, and produces a great deal of
> > benefits.
.
> > Oh, wait, the Democrats are in the trail lawyer's pockets,
> > aren't
> > they?
> Exaggerated cost by the liars who oppose health care reform.
We have a President who's a God Damned lawyer. A Vice President who's
a God Damned lawyer. Far too many members of Congress who are God
Damned lawyers.
Pete10016
Agreed.
Sid9
Illegal aliens are a strawman you throw up distract from the
problem.
For those who don't want to pay, there's a penalty tax for
not having health insurance.
Health insurance would be mandatory...UNIVERSAL....if you
understand the meaning of the word..
You can pay your premium to the government or you can pay
your premium to your insurance company or your employer can
pay your premium on you behalf
Sid9
Another phony argument. Another distraction
Sid9
"Pete10016" <Pe...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:DvOdnV0fsrZN3wzX...@giganews.com...
Lawyers write laws.
Shoemakers make shoes.
If you are not a lawyer you do not write laws....for one
simple reason:
You don't know shit about writing a law.
You, for example, are not qualified to write laws.
NeoLibertarian
> http://www.kentucky.com/latest_news/story/902829.html
>
> Thursday, Aug. 20, 2009
>
>
>
> There's a fascinating audio clip on YouTube.
>
> It's from a 1961 phonograph record in which a politically ambitious
> entertainer named Ronald Reagan tries his best to scare people about
> "socialized medicine."
>
> The threat he warns about is legislation to create the program we now
> know as Medicare.
A horrid example, dummy.
Medicare is broke. They're already cutting back services until they
can figure out how to jack up your taxes.
By letting the lying criminals in Washington control it for 50 years,
it's now completely gutted; The children of those who passed Medicare
into law must pay the price for their parents having gutted the
system. Now you're proposing that we pass off a Medicare on Steroids
onto OUR children. And their children. And their children's children.
You're better off showing us some biased samples of utopian Canadian,
UK, French, German, Cuban, Israeli universal health care. How it's
"cheaper,""better," and "smarter" to let the government turn my health
into a political issue every damn election.
--
Neolibertarian
Lamont Cranston
False dichotomy.
>
>>>> a mixture of socialism and regulated capitalism over
>>>> laissez-faire
>>>> capitalism.
>
>
> A little liberalism like a little Liquor is a good thing,
> but when it
> takes control, it becomes self destructive like liquor.
> -Poetic-Justice-
Irrelevant nonsense.
>
>>> Then why have we failed with your Socialism in Mortgages
>>> that
>>> created the economic Apocalypse.
>>
>> LIE. What caused the economic Apocalypse was
>> laissez-faire
>> capitalism.
>
> Hey Dipstick, we have had Socialized economic policies for
> a while,
We have never had socialized economic policies.
> More regulations every year.... tens of thousands of new
> laws and
> regulations, and it was Affordable housing regulations
> that created
> the sub-prime collapse and then the Dominoes started to
> fall.
LIE. The CRA had absolutely nothing to do with the
sub-prime collapse. The sub-prime collapse was a result of
banking deregulation.
Lamont Cranston
Medical care is currently being rationed.
John Q public
Liar, strawman, it is not a false argument and we know it, so does the
public, you assholes think you can just say don't believe what you
read, just like abortions its in there Sid Of None
Lamont Cranston
The illegal immigrant argument is a strawman.
leonox1
wrote:
> John Q public wrote:
> > On 2009-08-23 09:42:08 -0400, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net>
For those of you who support Obama's socialized medicine, could you
please answer these questions:
* Do you believe Obama will pay for it by reducung fraud and waste in
the current Medicare and Medicaid system?
* If this plan is so great, why is Congree exempting itself from it?
* Can you point to another nation's plan that works?
* I'm happy with my care, why must I give it up to be on a government
plan?
leonox1
wrote:
> > On 2009-08-23 09:42:08 -0400, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net>
For those of you who support Obama's socialized medicine, could you
leonox1
wrote:
> > On 2009-08-23 09:42:08 -0400, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net>
For those of you who support Obama's socialized medicine, could you
leonox1
> please answer these questions:
>
> * Do you believe Obama will pay for it by reducung fraud and waste in
> the current Medicare and Medicaid system?
> * If this plan is so great, why is Congree exempting itself from it?
> * Can you point to another nation's plan that works?
> * I'm happy with my care, why must I give it up to be on a government
> plan?
Forgot one-
* Do you know how much Medicare & Medicaid were first projected to
cost, and what the real cos is?
leonox1
And no replies - the libs all run away...
Lamont Cranston
Strawman. Nobody has proposed socialized medicine.
Lamont Cranston
Strawman. Nobody has proposed socialized medicine.
Lamont Cranston
When inflation and the increased number of people covered
are factored in, Medicare is costing exactly what it was
projected to cost.
Lamont Cranston
Strawman. Nobody has proposed socialized medicine.
Lamont Cranston
Beam Me Up Scotty
Yes they have, and they are still proposing it.
They are also proposing ways to get there in steps.
What they are *NOT* proposing is a capitalist free market fix.
--
*BE VERY CONCERNED*
Bush has only been looking for Weapons of Mass Destruction for a short
time compared to how long we've all been waiting for Hillary to find the
Rose Law Firm papers that went missing.
- Talk-n-Dog -
Beam Me Up Scotty
Which is way more than the "program" was said to cost us. SO you van
twist and spin but the program is way over budget.
Bob
news:hbi5fs$g7j$1...@news.datemas.de...
"At its start, in 1966, Medicare cost $3 billion. The House Ways and Means
Committee estimated that Medicare would cost only about $ 12 billion by 1990
(a figure that included an allowance for inflation). This was a supposedly
"conservative" estimate. But in 1990 Medicare actually cost $107 billion."
Lamont Cranston
Cite?
>
> They are also proposing ways to get there in steps.
LOL! You are seriously delusional.
>
>
> What they are *NOT* proposing is a capitalist free market
> fix.
The health care insurance industry is not a "capitalist free
market." It is a cartel exempt from anti-trust laws. It's
the end result of "free markets."
Bob
Would you agree with allowing the healthcare
industry to operate as a free market?
Beam Me Up Scotty
It is the end result of government interference.
Beam Me Up Scotty
> In article <d7976abf-0dd3-430d...@a7g2000yqo.googlegroups.com>,
> leonox1 <wsjam...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> * If this plan is so great, why is Congree exempting itself from it?
>
> executive branch. It's called the separation of powers.
It's called being elite.
Lets make the line between rich and poor at congress' pay scale $174,000
minus $1000 so 173,000 wouls be th eline and congress could also see
their own taxes go up when they attempt to rob from the rich.
> As for the rest, it's a secret plan to implant a chip in your brain to force you
> to vote Democrat, give your money to Hari Krishnas, and eat quiche.
I can't eat quiche....
I'll fight to the death instead.
Bert Hyman
<riv...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Afraid of 'socialized' medicine? We've had it for decades
Then I guess that's the reason that the US health care system is in such
a terrible crisis, as the Obama administration tells us at every
opportunity.
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@iphouse.com
PC
"leonox1" <wsjam...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:3bb47aff-f175-405f...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
> The illegal immigrant argument is a strawman.
> For those of you who support Obama's socialized medicine,
There is no such thing as Obama's socialized medicine.
leonox1
<Lamont.Crans...@EvilWatcher.com> wrote:
> leonox1 wrote:
> > On Oct 17, 9:03 pm, leonox1 <wsjames...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Aug 25, 10:55 am, "Lamont Cranston"
> > > <Lamont.Crans...@WhoKnows.com> wrote:
>
> > > > John Q public wrote:
> > > > > On 2009-08-23 09:42:08 -0400, "Sid9"
> > > > > <s...@belsouth.net>
> > > > > said:
>
> > > > >> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > > > >>news:0aac18bc-5f8b-423a...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > > > >>> On Aug 21, 6:38 pm, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net>
> > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > >>>> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > >>>>news:c146d023-cbd9-49e9...@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > >>>>> On Aug 21, 9:33 am, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net>
> > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>>> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> > > > >>>>>>news:9e4bb5fa-b742-401d...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > > >>>>>>> .
> > > > >>>>>>>> Afraid of 'socialized'medicine? We've had it
> > > > >>>>>>>> for
> > > > >>>>>>>> decades
> > > > >>>>>>> .
> > > > >> from
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> problem.
>
> > > > >> For those who don't want to pay, there's a penalty
> > > > >> tax
> > > > >> for
> > > > >> not having health insurance.
> > > > >> Health insurance would be
> > > > >> mandatory...UNIVERSAL....ifyou
> > > > >> understand the meaning of the word..
>
> > > > >> can pay
> > > > >> your premium to your insurance company or your
> > > > >> employer
> > > > >> can
> > > > >> pay your premium onyoubehalf
>
> > > > > Liar, strawman, it is not a false argument and we
> > > > > know it,
> > > > > so does the
> > > > >believe
> > > > > whatyou
> > > > > read, just like abortions its in there Sid Of None
>
> > > > The illegal immigrant argument is a strawman.
>
> > > For those ofyouwho support Obama's socializedmedicine,
> > > couldyou
> > > please answer these questions:
>
> > > and waste
> > > in the current Medicare and Medicaid system?
> > > * If this plan is so great, why is Congree exempting
> > > itself from it?
> > > * I'm happy with my care, why must I give it up to be on
> > > a
> > > government plan?
>
> > Forgot one-
>
> > projected to
> > cost, and what the real cos is?
>
> When inflation and the increased number of people covered
> are factored in, Medicare is costing exactly what it was
> projected to cost.
!!!
Each time I think liberals could not be any more ignorant, they
surprise me yet again.
leonox1
> "Lamont Cranston" <Lamont.Crans...@EvilWatcher.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hbi5fs$g7j$1...@news.datemas.de...
>
>
>
> > leonox1 wrote:
> >> On Oct 17, 9:03 pm, leonox1 <wsjames...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Aug 25, 10:55 am, "Lamont Cranston"
> >> > <Lamont.Crans...@WhoKnows.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > John Q public wrote:
> >> > > > On 2009-08-23 09:42:08 -0400, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net>
> >> > > > said:
>
> >> > > >> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> > > >>news:0aac18bc-5f8b-423a...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> >> > > >>> On Aug 21, 6:38 pm, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net> wrote:
> >> > > >>>> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >> > > >>>>news:c146d023-cbd9-49e9...@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > > >>>>> On Aug 21, 9:33 am, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net> wrote:
> >> > > >>>>>> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>
> >> > > >>>>>>news:9e4bb5fa-b742-401d...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > > >>>>>>> .
> >> > > >>>>>>>> Afraid of 'socialized'medicine? We've had it for
> >> > > >>>>>>>> decades
> >> > > >>>>>>> .
> >> > > >> the
> >> > > >> problem.
>
> >> > > >> For those who don't want to pay, there's a penalty tax
> >> > > >> for
> >> > > >> not having health insurance.
> >> > > >> Health insurance would be mandatory...UNIVERSAL....ifyou
> >> > > >> understand the meaning of the word..
>
> >> > > >> your premium to your insurance company or your employer
> >> > > >> can
> >> > > >> pay your premium onyoubehalf
>
> >> > > > Liar, strawman, it is not a false argument and we know it,
> >> > > > so does the
> >> > > > whatyou
>
> >> > > The illegal immigrant argument is a strawman.
>
> >> > please answer these questions:
>
> >> > in the current Medicare and Medicaid system?
> >> > * If this plan is so great, why is Congree exempting itself from it?
> >> > * I'm happy with my care, why must I give it up to be on a
> >> > government plan?
>
> >> Forgot one-
>
> >> cost, and what the real cos is?
>
> > When inflation and the increased number of people covered are factored in,
> > Medicare is costing exactly what it was projected to cost.
>
> "At its start, in 1966, Medicare cost $3 billion. The House Ways and Means
> Committee estimated that Medicare would cost only about $ 12 billion by 1990
> (a figure that included an allowance for inflation). This was a supposedly
> "conservative" estimate. But in 1990 Medicare actually cost $107 billion."
Thank you Bob. At last, answer based on facts, not rhetoric.
leonox1
> "leonox1" <wsjames...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3bb47aff-f175-405f...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > The illegal immigrant argument is a strawman.
>
> There is no such thing as Obama's socialized medicine.
Ignorance thy name is liberal.
leonox1
> > Congress exempts itself from many federal laws and programs adminstered by the
> > executive branch. It's called the separation of powers.
>
So...liberals think that "separation of powers" means Congress
exempting itself from laws it passes for the rest of us.
Duly noted.
Jim Alder
@news.datemas.de:
> leonox1 wrote:
>> On Oct 17, 9:03 pm, leonox1 <wsjames...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Aug 25, 10:55 am, "Lamont Cranston"
>> > <Lamont.Crans...@WhoKnows.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > John Q public wrote:
>> > > > On 2009-08-23 09:42:08 -0400, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net> said:
>> >
>> > > >> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> > > >> news:0aac18bc-5f8b-423a-abde-ae42d68e6696
@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>> > > >>> On Aug 21, 6:38 pm, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net> wrote:
>> > > >>>> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > > >>>>news:c146d023-cbd9-49e9-885d-69bff5b14f25
@l5g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > > >>>>> On Aug 21, 9:33 am, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net> wrote:
>> > > >>>>>> "bvallely" <bvall...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > > >>>>>>news:9e4bb5fa-b742-401d-95bb-6fbccc0f1fd5@
At its start, in 1966, Medicare cost $3 billion. The House Ways and Means
Committee estimated that Medicare would cost only about $ 12 billion by 1990
(a figure that included an allowance for inflation). This was a supposedly
"conservative" estimate. But in 1990 Medicare actually cost $107 billion.
http://reason.com/archives/1993/01/01/the-medicare-monster
--
So, how's that whole "hopey - changey"
thing working out for you so far?
PC
Each time I think liberals could not be any more ignorant, they
surprise me yet again.
>>>
They could become Bush apologists.
Beam Me Up Scotty
--
*BE VERY CONCERNED*
To start with, after you Liberals take my money... what if I get sick
and need the money for a heart transplant? I will be broke because you
took the money from my paycheck and gave it to a couple of people you
think needs it to live more than I do. So my taxes are paying for cheese
or Beer & Cigarettes for other people while I die of heart disease,
Liberalism sure is a warm and fuzzy ideology.
Beam Me Up Scotty
And we thank God every time we get sick or hurt that there is no Obama care.
Beam Me Up Scotty
> Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destro...@Talk-n-dog.com> wrote:
>
>> To start with, after you Liberals take my money... what if I get sick
>> and need the money for a heart transplant? I will be broke because you
>
depends..... some things I can pay for, the emergency room and a video
of my heart and other stuff.... I did pay cash for almost all of my
health care to date. I did pay for my daughters birth cash.
But you figure the 30 years of money you take from me and the compound
interest.... and yes I could even pay for a serious expense like a
heart transplant.
Instead I paid for cheese and beer and cigarettes, for the poor. So now
when and if I die, the cheese eaters will be stuck without me buying
their stuff, had you taken less money... I might live longer and
actually have paid more in tax.
I guess I will get the last laugh.
People waiting for their checks will have to stand around with their
thumb up their ass and wait a little longer till someone else coughs up
the cheese/beer money..... it won't be me.
Beam Me Up Scotty
> In article <4af26191$0$6715$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com>,
> Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destro...@Talk-n-dog.com> wrote:
>
>> and need the money for a heart transplant? I will be broke because you
>
>
government takes from 30 to 70% of our income.... Your streets/parks
post office are killing people by stealing the money they need for their
health care.
Jim Alder
B563DF.143...@news.eternal-september.org:
> In article <Xns9CB9DDAFE1E87...@216.196.97.142>,
> Jim Alder <jima...@ssnet.com> wrote:
>
>> "Lamont Cranston" <Lamont....@EvilWatcher.com> wrote:
>>
>>> When inflation and the increased number of people covered
>>> are factored in, Medicare is costing exactly what it was
>>> projected to cost.
>>
>> At its start, in 1966, Medicare cost $3 billion. The House Ways and
>> Means Committee estimated that Medicare would cost only about $ 12
>> billion by 1990 (a figure that included an allowance for inflation).
>> This was a supposedly "conservative" estimate. But in 1990 Medicare
>> actually cost $107 billion.
>
> How accurate was their prediction of inflation and population?
A. That wasn't the question.
B. Do you really think a difference between 12 billion and 107 billion can
be dismissed by 'inflation'?