Kim Dae Jung - Kim Jong Il Dialogues - by Gen. Hwang Won Duk, Foreign Affairs and Security Advisor
Young Kim
Kim Dae Jung - Kim Jong Il Dialogues
Gen. Hwang Won Duk, Foreign Affairs and Security Advisor
Source: Wolgan ChosunGen. Hwang gave a speech at the Korean Veterans' Association Conference on June 30, 2000. It was titled "What we have achieved at the North-South Summit and the follow-up tasks".
On the previous day, the Association issued a statement warning against - "expecting unification to be around the corner and demanding the immediate withdrawal of the US troops" This statement was carried by Chosun Ilbo and other news organs.
Gen. Hwang disclosed some details of the 4 hours and 15 min KDJ - KJI dialogues to an audience of 1,000+ veterans crowded into the 2nd and 3rd floors of the auditorium. He also presented his impression of the changes going on in North Korea.
Kim Dae Jung was accompanied by Im Dong Won (National Intelligence Agency chief) and Hwang; Kim Jong Il had Kim Yong Sun (Workers Party secretary for South Korean affairs).
Gen. Hwang (62) was born in Pyong-chang (Kang-won-do) and was in the 18th graduating class of the Military Academy. During the military coups of 12-12 and 10-26, he was adjutant to Jung Sung Hwa, the Army Chief of Staff. He has served as deputy chief-of-staff of the US-ROKA combined command and other posts before retiring as major general. He served as ambassador to Panama for three years and was appointed to his current position in May 1999.
Kim Jong Il is an easy-going fellow
The South delegation arrived at the Sun-ahn airport aboard the presidential plane on June 13t. The plane displayed our national flag (tae-guk-gi) and the word "Republic of Korea" in large letters. It meant that the delegation represented the Republic of Korea.Kim Dae Jung and Kim Jong Il talked for about 30 min after we arrived at our lodging. Kim Jong Il was pleasant and joked a lot. He said "See you tomorrow" and departed. On the following day (June 14th), we met from 3 pm till 7:15 pm for a total of 4 hours and 15 min.
Normally, when presidents meet on official occasions, the meetings last less than one hour. In addition, interpreters are normally required and this cut down the net contact between the heads of state to less than 15 min. All statements must be condensed into short bytes.
In contrast, the two heads of state at the North-South summit talked for some four hours - highly unusual as summit talks go. This gave us the opportunity to air our grievances against North Korea and many other matters we have always wanted to discuss. The other side did likewise. These frank dialogues resulted in the 6.15 joint declaration.
I must state that the single-page declaration may seem to be skimpy, but every word in it had to be discussed at length and compromised from the title to the signatures. One of the most difficult problems to resolve was the wording because many terms meant different things to the two sides.
Another problem was that both sides had different agenda in mind. Normally, summit talks are preceded by extensive prep work and all terms are agreed upon before the summit. The two heads of state meet to formalize the agreement. But this summit was different.
The ROK-US-Japan alliance is for stifling North Korea?
Now let me dwell on some matters of substance. Kim Dae Jung said: "You said that we must work out something big for our people. To do that, we must not waste our time arguing over some vague principles. As you know we had the July 4th agreement in 1972. The agreement was on wonderful general principles but nevertheless nothing concrete has come out of it in 28 years."Later we had the 1991 North-South agreement, which included some practical applications of the principles enunciated in the 1972 declaration. To this day, none of the agreed terms has been implemented.
Kim Dae Jung said: "If we were to repeat our past practice of restating general principles, this summit will be meaningless. Instead, we must discuss practical matters; those items that can be achieved realistically and present them to our people as tangible gifts." Kim Jong Il agreed to Kim Dae Jung's assertion.
The 6.15 declaration includes statements regarding:
(1) Unification by Koreans themselves without any external influence.
(2) How to achieve unification.
(3) Reuniting separated families.
(4) Economic, social and cultural cooperation.
(5) Kim Jong Il's return visit to Seoul.
The main difference between this statement and the prior ones is that this one emphasizes practical steps toward unification.
Kim Jong Il said: "The Korean problems must be resolved by the Koreans themselves. Don't you agree?"
Kim Dae Jung replied: "Yes, indeed. That is what we have been asking for and we agree with you completely."
Kim Jong Il shot back: "Then why do you promote your alliance with the United States and Japan to stifle us?"
Kim Dae Jung replied as follows: "That is a misunderstanding on your part. The 3-nation alliance is not for the three nations to conspire to destroy you. On the contrary, it is to help you. Why should we help you? The alliance was formed in 1998 to coordinate the three nations' dealings with North Korea."
"My North policy is 'sunshine' for peace, reconciliation and cooperation. It is because of my sunshine policy that we are here today. Our policy of reconciliation is to help you - not to destroy you. The 3-nation alliance is to support my sunshine policy."
Kim Dae Jung continued on to say: "There is one thing you must understand. We maintain friendly relations with Japan and the United States. The United States is our ally. But we receive assistance from China and Russia. Japan and the United States have been trying to normalize relations with you. We have also advised you to make peace with these nations in the past. If we were after your neck, why would we be seeking normalization with you?"
"Another important thing to mention is that both you and I have mentioned self-determination. We may come out with some self-determining agreements, but if our neighbors ignore our agreements and hinder their realization, what good would they be? They would be meaningless."
"Therefore, you must establish friendly relations with other nations. You must be friendly to the United States and also you ought to kiss and make up with Japan. In this way, we ill be supported by the four big nations around us. If the United States opposed or if Japan opposed whatever we agree to here, we will not be able to implement them. What good is self-rule then?"
I cannot go to Seoul in my present official capacity
Kim Jong Il intently listened to Kim Dae Jung's sermon and said: "I understand" and bought Kim Dae Jung's theme. After this, Kim Jong Il did not bring up his theme of going alone against the foreign powers.In this way, they argued over and agreed upon one issue after another. Some issues took less than 20 min and others took more than 30 min to resolve. The last hurdle was Kim Jong Il's return visit to Seoul.
When Kim Dae Jung stated that Kim Jong Il must come to Seoul. Kim Jong Il said: "Oh. no! I cannot go to Seoul in my present capacity".
Kim Dae Jung: "Why not?"
Kim Jong Il: "I cannot go there in my present official capacity. If I were to go there, my people will get upset."
Kim Dae Jung: "Nonsense - you must come. You and I have been discussing reconciliation and if you don't come to Seoul, who else will push our agreements? You have to come."
Kim Jong Il: "No - I cannot go. Personally, I would love to visit the Hanra Mountains and I am sure you as a private citizen would love visiting the Paik-tu Mountains and spend 4-5 days with me. But as an official, it will be impossible for me to visit Seoul."
Kim Dae Jung tried various approaches to no avail. As the last ditch try, Kim Dae Jung said: "You have mentioned several times that you practice the Oriental ethics. I am much older than you are, right? An older man came to see you and you the younger man refuse to pay the older man a return visit? Is that ethical?"
Kim Jong Il said: "I understand. I see your Cholla-do obstinacy" and tried to evade the issue.
Kim Dae Jung pressed on: "Hey, aren't you a Jun-ju Kim?" (Kim Il Sung's family originated in Jun-ju).
On the issue of signing the declaration, Kim Dae Jung said: "You and I must sign it".
Kim Jong Il said: "No, I cannot sign it. Kim Young Nam is our head of state and you and he should sign it."
Kim Dae Jung said: "No. That will not do. You are the real leader of North Korea. The real leader must sign it. I am the president of South Korea and it is only proper that I should sign it. You must sign it, too.".
They argued over this issue for some 25 min. Things were going nowhere. Finally, we broke in said: "You two have met and been ironing out the agreements and it is not right for any other person to sign it." At last, Kim Jong Il agreed to sign it himself.
Kim Jong Il asked: "When do we sign it?" "Right now, at this very moment" - we said.
Kim Jong Il said: "Well, the document is not ready to be signed and let's sign it tomorrow."
The next day was June 15th, the day of our departure and we said: "No. We must sign it today because, if we signed it tomorrow, the South Korean press will not report it until the following day after our return to Seoul."
Kim Jong Il chuckled and said: "You want to return as a triumphant hero, right?"
Kim Dae Jung said: "Well, what is wrong with you making me a hero?"
Kim Jong Il said: "Ok, Ok. Let's sign it today. But how about the document? It is not ready."
We said: "We have been working on the document all along and all you have to do is to approve it."
Kim Jong Il readily agreed and ordered Kim Young Sun to take care of it. The summit ended at 7:15 pm and we attended the dinner party of Kim Dae Jung at 8 pm. Kim Jong Il offered to ride with Kim Dae Jung to the dinner party.
All during Kim Dae Jung's stay in Pyongyang, Kim Jong Il rode with Kim Dae Jung. They spent about 12 hours together, out of which 4 hours and 15 min were at open meetings.
At the dinner party, Kim Jong Il told us "I have looked at your papers and they look ok 99% and unless you have anything to add, let us sign it." The document was signed at 11:30 pm, June 14th.
We said: "Today is the 14th and therefore the statement should be dated the 14th". The other side responded: "It will be the 15th within 30 min. '4' is a bad letter in North Korea and so why not date it the 15th?"
We accepted their request (actually '4' is a bad word in all of Korea. For example, there is no 4th division or any level of unit). This is how the declaration became the "June 15th" statement. The statement was released as soon as it was signed and the news organs published it on the 14th although it was dated the 15th.
The most significant aspect of the summit was that it was purely Korean. There was not external input to it at all. The summit of 1994 of Kim Yong Sam and Kim Il Sung was cancelled because of Kim Il Sung's sudden death. It was brokered by Jimmy Carter and it would have been a foreign affair and violated the self-determination principle.
In the past, the United States was involved in all matters concerning Korea. We Koreans had little to say about our affairs and the US played the leading role. Why? It was because North Korea, contrary to it's self-determination policy, opted to deal with the United States and ignore South Korea.
The new summit was entirely arranged and completed by the two heads of state. This is the most significant. The baton was passed from the United States to South Korea. At last, the Korean people have the opportunity to solve Korean issues on their own.
Another significance is that our delegation arrived in Pyongyang flying our national flag - Tae-guk-gi and North Korea did not mind it at all. In the past North Korea used to assert that "We will not deal with the South Korean government because it is a mere puppet of the United States. South Korea is occupied by the US troops and we must liberate our brethren in South Korea."
This used to be the basis of North Korea's policy for South Korea. It was the foundation of North Korean nation and its unification formula. The 6.15 summit changed it. The South Korean government is no longer a puppet but an equal partner on the road to unification.
North Korea used to call us "a puppet government and a puppet army" and we used call them puppets as well. Now things are different.
Freed from fear of another war in Korea
Another significant achievement is that we have reached a common approach to unification. In the past, North Korea pushed its "Koryo Confederation" formula. This formula is similar to our formula for unification, although ours was more realistic and concrete.We should note those elements common in the two formulas and take into consideration the prevailing realities. The differences can be ironed out through continued negotiations.
It should be stated that during the past 55 years, the Korean people have lived on the sharp edge of a sword dividing our nation, through confrontation and mutual recrimination. The summit has ushered in the era of cooperation and reconciliation.
Most importantly, the summit will free us from fears of another fratricidal war in Korea. During the summit, we spent many hours discussing how to prevent another war in Korea. Kim Dae Jung said: "The Korean people have had to live under constant threat of war in the past 55 years. We must absolutely ensure that there will be no more war in Korea."
Kim Dae Jung pointed out that: "If there is another war in Korea, it will not be like the June 25, 1950 war. Weapons and other military technology have advanced so much that the entire Korean peninsula will be ruined. We must prevent war in Korea."
Kim Jong Il agreed. Kim Dae Jung went on: "We have no intention of absorbing North Korea to unite Korea. Doing so is not possible. Likewise, North Korea cannot unite Korea by invading South Korea." Kim Jong Il said that is his felling as well.
No North Korean crab boats south of the NLL.
We are now (June 30th) negotiating reunion of separated families at Mt. Kumgang. I believe about 100 families from both sides will be reunited around August 15th. We will set up a meeting place so that separated families will be able to meet their loved ones on a regular basis after the initial 100 families. This is but one example of the concrete implementation of the agenda agreed upon at the summit.At the last meal gathering on the June 15th, Cho Myong Rok (Chief of People's Army political commissars) sat next to Kim Jong Il. Kim Jong Il turned to Cho and asked: "We talked about stopping anti-South broadcasting. Have you stopped it yet?"
Cho replied: "We will stop it today."
Kim Jong Il: "Why haven't you stopped sooner? Stop it now!" and the propaganda loudspeakers fell silent. We, too, stopped our anti-North propaganda next day.
On June 16th, a South Korean fishing boat from Baikryong-do strayed into the North Korean territory due to thick fogs and an engine problem. North Korea rescued the ship, fixed the engine and sent it back to South Korea. Such was unthinkable prior to the summit.
As you know from last year's naval battle on the West Sea, North Korea normally sends crab fishing boats south of NLL about this time of every year, but no North Korean crab boat has violated NLL so far this year. It is clear that North Korea wants peace, not confrontation with South Korea.
In the past, North Korea conducted a one-month long anti-US activities from June 25th to July 27th of every year. But this year, it was cancelled. July 27th is the anniversary of the armistice and was celebrated in North Korea as the 'victory' day in the past. But. I expect it too will be low-keyed this year.
The August 15th anniversary of liberation is usually celebrated by inviting radical students from South Korea. South Korea tries to prevent them from going North but some manage to slip through. This is an annual ritual and causes a great deal of embarrassment to the Seoul government. On June 23th, North Korea said: "Let us hold August 15th celebrations separately." - that is, South Korean students should stay in South Korea. This is another indication that North Korea is serious about reconciliation with South Korea.
We are in a transition period.
It has been 10 days since the summit ended, but we have already 7-8 concrete items achieved. North Korea is genuinely following up on the agreed terms of the summit. The summit was sudden and it achieved much more than what we hoped for.The unexpected success of the summit presents many complicated problems, however. These problems must be resolved with your support and through public debates. We are in a transition period from confrontation and division to cooperation and union. Both past, present and future coexist during this transition period. Both cold war mentality and detente coexist during this period. Traditional outlook conflict with new outlook in this period.
I believe the best way to survive this transition period is to understand the basic principles of reconciliation and resolve steadfastly one problem at a time with no haste. If all of us do this, we will pass through the transition period with no difficulty.
This concludes my presentation on the summit and I will now field questions from the audience.
Question: We must admit that we look through colored glasses. The 6.15 declaration requires that North Korea abandon its plan to communize South Korea. Has North Korea really changed this plan? If so, what are the evidences?
Answer: I cannot speak with any certainty about the changes going on in North Korea. What you have witnessed in the recent days is also what I have seen and I have not much more to add.
For the first time in 55 years, a summit meeting actually happened. For many years, South wanted to hold summit meetings with North and some people here have opposed South meeting with North. However, the majority of the South Korean people want reconciliation with North and accordingly several governments of South Korea have tried to hold a summit with North in vain.
Why no summit in the past? As I have explained earlier, the main reason why no summit was due to North's attitude - "There is no legitimate government in South Korea. South Korea is occupied by the US imperialists and we must liberate it." This attitude permeates through the North Korean people and unification through communizing South Korea has been North Korea's primary objective. Furthermore, North Korea wanted to solve all inter-Korean issues with the United States ignoring South Korea.
The North-South summit signals fundamental changes in North-South relations. North has for the first time recognized the South Korean government. This is a tremendous change. The June 15th declaration includes the official name of the South Korean government. You have all witnessed how Kim Dae Jung was received in North Korea as President of the Republic of Korea. Both you and I have to wonder if this change is truly real or not. I believe the change is real and genuine.
The skeptics will be always skeptics. We must stop looking at North through colored eye-glasses. Instead, we must start looking at facts as they are. All of us must ask: "Are my eye-glasses colored or clear?". We must seek the truth and accept it as it is without any distortions.
I cannot disclose everything that went on during the summit. As a member of the delegation, I am privy to all aspects of the summit but disclosing them all will harm the spirit of the summit and negate its agreements. I myself was taken aback by a number of unexpected changes.
When we talk about changes in North, we are in fact talking about changes in Kim Jong Il's mind set. As I have stated earlier, Kim Jong Il was quite different from what we anticipated. And North's politics, economy, society and culture have changed. They are not what they used to be in the past. If we add momentum to the changes, no one will be able to stop them now. We must make sure that the changes continue on.
During Kim Jong Il's visit to China, Chinese President Jang Jemin reportedly told Kim: "You must accept the fact that South Korea and China relationship has developed too far to be reversed." This is according to Japan's Asahi-sin-bun and I have no way to ascertain its veracity. If this is true, then self-determination of inter-Korean issues is ensured.
Question: Some radical people in South Korea want the US troops to pull out and abolish the National Security Law now. How will the government deal with them?
Answer: We went over the US troop withdrawal and the National Security Law in great detail at the summit. On the issue of the US troops in Korea, Kim Dae Jung stated: "The US troops in South Korea help prevent war in Korea. In addition, they are needed to maintain military equilibrium in the Far East Asia. They will be needed even after unification." I believe Kim Jong Il accepted this and you may rest assured that the US troops will stay. I cannot divulge any more on this sensitive issue, but please take my words for it.
On the issue of the National Security Law, it was agreed as follows.
"The National Security Law of South Korea and the similar laws in North Korea were formulated years ago. Things have changed since. Accordingly, we should retain the basic tenet of the laws but their implementations should take into consideration the changes. We must enforce the laws without fouling the newly created atmosphere of reconciliation."
"If it were between the two of us, only two of us have to change if we were wrong in the past, but it does involve all Koreans. All of our people are still of the past. The two of us have to lead the way and change our people's mind set."
Question: Establishing North-South military hot-line is the base for North-South reconciliation and the world is keenly watching how this will play out. Please explain what our government plans to do.
Answer: "No more war in Korea" was the recurring theme and the North-South military hot-line was discussed under this premise. How this is to be accomplished will be discussed at the July ministerial meeting in Seoul. All problems will be placed on the table to be prioritized for resolution.
Question: Please explain what aspects of the summit agreement the United States and Japan consider to be positive and what aspects to be negative. What changes do you expect in the US-North and Japan-North relations?
Answer: I met six times with the officials in the United States and I had a meeting the prime minister in Japan. Both nations support the summit declaration whole-heartily.
Why? Because we have been keeping the two nations well informed of our dealings with North. Our North policy has unequivocal support of the two nations. This was the foundation of our North policy and the key factor that made the summit possible and successful.
The only thing that surprised the United States and Japan was that Kim Jong Il turned out to be quite different from the image they had of him. Kim Jong Il speaks well, jovial, well informed and intelligent.
Question: Kim Dae Jung promised that he would bring up the issue of South Koreans kidnapped to North and our POW's. Did he raise these issues at the summit? Also, how are you going to handle North's refusal to let in Chosun Ilbo newsmen at the Kumgang Red Cross meeting?
Answer: The Chosun ilbo incident is being discussed at the Red Cross meeting as we speak here. There are mountains of North-South issues to be resolved and there is no way we can solve them all in one stroke. The summit has opened the door for reconciliation and cooperation and we have just begun to tackle the long-standing problems.
The separated family reunion process will include the ROKA POWs and kidnapped South Koreans. We must first reunite separated families, set up meeting places and establish postal links. Our POW and kidnapped people's issues will be resolved in the process.
Regarding the Chosun Ilbo incident, South Korea enjoys freedom of press, but as you know this freedom extends to south of the MDL only. We are not free to exercise our rights in North Korea. The best we can hope for is to extend gradually our principles and points of view to North Korea. We will continue to press North to grant freedom of press. This issue cannot be resolved by the government alone. The press, too, must practice sound journalism.
Question: Prior to the summit, North Korea was our enemy. How shall we view North now?
Answer: Both you and I have served in the military. We have to view North using the best of our judgment and our job function. For example, it should be clearly stated that North is the enemy as far as our front line troops are concerned. If our soldiers treat Northern soldiers as their friends, they will be unable to defend our country. Another example: if our business people dealing with North Korea considered North as enemies, there will not be any economic cooperation.
Question: The June 15th declaration has created a peace mood in South Korea and some people think that there is no longer any need to worry about our national defense. Any problem do you foresee?
Answer: Wars happen when two sides have unequal strengths. In order to prevent war, we must maintain our military strength. In order to start war by either side, neighboring countries must support the war-starting side. South Korea has firm commitment of our allies to defend it in case of war. Our sunshine policy is supported by not only the four neighboring nations but also by all nations of the world.
North Korea has 1,100,000 troops but we have only 690,000 troops. This shortfall is filled in by the US troops. In addition, we have a defense treaty with the United States. It is critical that this treaty be continued.
No matter strong one might be militarily, if its economy is in shambles, its military might cannot be sustained for long. Economic development requires easing of tension. South Korea lacks natural resources and winds of war drive away potential development chances. If the threat of North Korean invasion persist, who would invest in South Korea?
The North-South reconciliation is our chance to develop our economy further. Our economy is about 27 times larger than the North Korean economy.