Mother Teresa, Christian Proselytization and the Bhopal Gas Tragedy
Jayant Mahajan
The work done by Mother teresa amongst the needy over the last 4 decades
is commendable. She along with many RSS workers and RamKrishna Mission
Swamis have earned a very special place in my heart. However the
Catholic missionary group that Mother teresa works with (or is the head
of) is the one we all should know about. The politics of awarding a
Nobel Prize can become the topic for another article. However, I pity
the politically naive Indians who have no sense of politics and what
drives mass actions. Be it political, military, economic or religious.
But this naive attitude of Indians in general frightens me. I cant
believe that the ancestors of such a race produced a Krishna, a
Chanakya, a Shivaji or a Vivekananda, who knew the difference between
the good from the dangerously good.
This is a true incident that occured which can give you an indication of
the proselytizing nature and consequences of Missionary work in India.
After the Bhopal Gas leak, several thousand people living in poor bastis
died immediately or within days of the tragic incidence. This tragedy
left behind immediately several hundred orphaned poor children. In the
ensuing confusion, these children were herded together and loaded in
several buses in the middle of the night. Actually these children were
under the protection of the state until their relatives were informed.
They were being taken away by the Christian Missionary Organization of
Mother Teresa. A very alert Commissioner of Bhopal immediately swung
into action and stopped the buses 100 kilometers from Bhopal and brought
the buses back to Bhopal. The whole matter was hushed up. The
Commissioner was transferred the next week. These children were
literally being stolen in the missionary zeal to covert and bring them
into the Christian fold. I would like an independent corraboration of
this incident. The Commissioners nephew who narrated this incident is a
socialist activist is still a good friend of mine.
Mother Teresa is known to
be very strict about only baptized Catholics working for her
organization. I am trying to get hold of a Government of India sponsored
commission report which was released in parts in the early sixties which
has documented the anti National Missionary activities of the Christian
church in the North East. Mother Teresa was banned (even today) from
visiting the sensitive North east sections of our Motherland. I will try
and get excat nature of this ban and the areas.
My advice to Indians is that after a history of 1000 years of Foreign
rule. Suspect everything. Never take anything at face value. You dont
have to go and spread bad gossip about Foreign Christian Missionaries.
But just remember that your countries and Motherlands future security is
at stake.
The politics of the Nobel Prize is not very plain and simple. I am not
an alarmist. But a country of 850 million people and a culture to potect
needs to be very careful.
Here is a list of political Nobel Prizes in Peace
Name Country of work Organization
Mother Teresa India Catholic Church
Bishop Tutu South Africa Catholic Church
Dalai Lama Tibet/China Buddhist
...(some lady) Burma Democracy activist
(husband is a Catholic European and she has been baptized too)
President . . . Central America Close ties with church
This is just a partial list. The Nobel prize attracts a lot of positive
publicity and indirect promotion of the individual and cause. I am in no
way casting any doubts about these individuals. I am not interested in
that at present. However, I have strong doubts about the compelling
reasons that led to this choice of individuals. I am casting doubts on
the selection commiittee and the selection process.
Sylvia D. D'Cruz
Please refer to the above if interested.
Mahajan, do you want a Hindu to recieve the nobel peace prize ? Then support
the Hindus that are doing that good work. Get enough publicity for them.
And the most important step is to publicise and inform the world about the
Hindus (wherever they are) working for peace among all peoples, not just
Hindus.
Mother Theresa is constantly watched and the rules have been laid out by the
GOI, because of the type of mentally of people like you. She is not allowed
to give a hindu baby to be adopted by anyone except a Hindu, even if there
are no Hindu's ready to adopt them. Foriegners who go to India to adopt have
to wait years and the procedure is long and cumbersome because of this.
Mother Theresa's intentions might have been different in the Bhopal tragedy.
But because of people with your type of fear and thinking the GOI, may have
intervened. The first conclusion that you have when you see a Christian
helping in a tradegy is "Oh they are going to be converted". Most of the
conversions have not been forceful in this century. But, the GOI has to be
watchful, in areas where christianity is above the 2/3 % mark. Mother
Theresa is not selective in who she healps. She does not ask the dying man
whether he is a Hindu or a Christian, before she takes them in. If she can
tell what religion he professes, the dying rites are performed as per that
religion.
You really have the nerve to display your ignorance and your bigotry. Lets
see some more from you.
And the best and the worst comes through in competition. Get your machine
going. As they say "Competition brings out the best end product, but the
worst in human relationships".
Sylvia D. D'Cruz.
Jayant Mahajan
> In article <1993Aug24....@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>, jmah...@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Jayant Mahajan) writes:
>
> Please refer to the above if interested.
>
> Mahajan, do you want a Hindu to recieve the nobel peace prize ? Then support
> the Hindus that are doing that good work. Get enough publicity for them.
> And the most important step is to publicise and inform the world about the
> Hindus (wherever they are) working for peace among all peoples, not just
> Hindus.
because it has been given to unworthy individuals. But because the
selection commiittee has a distinct set agenda. These individuals
perfectly fit into their purpose. And I am convinced about this idea so
I would refrain from further clarification. Who would publicize the
thousands of RSS workers working in tribal areas, slums and with the
socially oppressed. Not the N. Rams and the Prafulla Bidwais and the
INDIA ABROAD's. If the RSS is working in the name of Hindus so is Mother
Teresa in the name of the Catholic Church and the Lord the ONLY Saviour.
So dont give me no BS about peace. Hindus have been practicing peace for
the last 5000 years.
>
> Mother Theresa is constantly watched and the rules have been laid out by the
> GOI, because of the type of mentally of people like you. She is not allowed
> to give a hindu baby to be adopted by anyone except a Hindu, even if there
> are no Hindu's ready to adopt them.
Where did you get this information. The Anath Ashram in Bombay has a
minimum waiting list of 8 months. This attitude of yours that Hindus do
not have compassion and do not want to adopt smacks of bigotry, and
Christian arrogance.
> Foriegners who go to India to adopt have
> to wait years and the procedure is long and cumbersome because of this.
> Mother Theresa's intentions might have been different in the Bhopal tragedy.
Mother Teresa's intentions were perfectly plain and that was the
abduction and eventual conversion of these children. Why do you think
you know better.
> But because of people with your type of fear and thinking the GOI, may have
> intervened. The first conclusion that you have when you see a Christian
> helping in a tradegy is "Oh they are going to be converted". Most of the
> conversions have not been forceful in this century.
Do you have any statistics. Have you done a study. And why are you so
defensive about the proselytising role of the Chritian church. And you
are conveniently forgetting the temptations of money and job in
conversions. Why dont you watch some TV in America where ads are
regularly given on Sundays to ask for money to convert Hindus to
Christians. If you send me your address I will mail you the proclaimed
designs of the Southern Baptists in America for India's eventual
conversion to a Christian land.
> You really have the nerve to display your ignorance and your bigotry. Lets
> see some more from you.
I have the nerve to call a spade a spade. I have studied Christian
theology from a Episcopalian in America for a year and can teach you a
thing or two about the religion in which your forefathers were forcibly
converted. I am against Proselytising Christian Church and not against
Christianity another form of worship.
>
> And the best and the worst comes through in competition. Get your machine
> going. As they say "Competition brings out the best end product, but the
> worst in human relationships".
What competition is this Sylvia. Is Religion a popularity contest for
the CHristians. If that is so what you think then you bring great shame
to this way of worship.
> Sylvia D. D'Cruz.
jk
Kuram T Narayana
>helping in a tradegy is "Oh they are going to be converted". Most of the
>conversions have not been forceful in this century. But, the GOI has to be
>watchful, in areas where christianity is above the 2/3 % mark. Mother
If by forced conversions you mean using the stick, I agree. However I
specifically know of an instance of a low caste person in the slum I
used to work in Bombay who was converted to Christianity by inducement.
The inducement for him (and according to him) was several kilos of
wheat flour from the church. I specifically asked him whether he would
have gotten the flour without converting to christianity, he said "no."
Gandhi in many of his sermons used to rail the church at their
habit of converting people by inducements. That is a forced and
the most pathetic attempt at promoting a religion.
>Sylvia D. D'Cruz.
..kt
Sylvia D. D'Cruz
|> Miss Sylvia, No I do not want a Hindu to win a Nobel Peace Prize. Not
|> because it has been given to unworthy individuals. But because the
|> selection commiittee has a distinct set agenda. These individuals
|> perfectly fit into their purpose. And I am convinced about this idea so
|> I would refrain from further clarification. Who would publicize the
|> thousands of RSS workers working in tribal areas, slums and with the
|> socially oppressed. Not the N. Rams and the Prafulla Bidwais and the
|> INDIA ABROAD's. If the RSS is working in the name of Hindus so is Mother
|> Teresa in the name of the Catholic Church and the Lord the ONLY Saviour.
|> So dont give me no BS about peace. Hindus have been practicing peace for
|> the last 5000 years.
|>
So who do you nominate to be a representative of the Hindu peace ? All
you have to do, it get all the relevant information on this guy and
his good deads and send it in to the committee. Do you know of anyone who
even sent in any information of someone they thought was doing great work ?
How do you think people are rewarded ? Mother Theresa and the people who
actually do good work in whatever and whosesover's name don't normally
care about stuff like that. But, it is the people's whose lives have been
effected, who are touched by their presence who write out of gratitude
that make their good work known.
|> Where did you get this information. The Anath Ashram in Bombay has a
|> minimum waiting list of 8 months. This attitude of yours that Hindus do
|> not have compassion and do not want to adopt smacks of bigotry, and
|> Christian arrogance.
There you go again. I did not say that Hindus don't have compassion and
do not want to adopt. I said by GOI rules even if there were no Hindu
takers for a Hindu child, she could not give the child to somebody else.
Why are you sooooooo sensitive ?
|> Do you have any statistics. Have you done a study. And why are you so
|> defensive about the proselytising role of the Chritian church. And you
Not at all defensive or sensitive to this role. You don't get it. Do
you ? The church has changed it stance on this issue,
|> are conveniently forgetting the temptations of money and job in
|> conversions. Why dont you watch some TV in America where ads are
|> regularly given on Sundays to ask for money to convert Hindus to
|> Christians. If you send me your address I will mail you the proclaimed
|> designs of the Southern Baptists in America for India's eventual
|> conversion to a Christian land.
There you go......off in another direction. When I talk about the church and
its directions, I am referring to the christian religion that proclaims the
pope as the earthly head of the church. No I am not interested. I could
care less. "proselytising" is on the charter of many, many religions.
|> I have the nerve to call a spade a spade. I have studied Christian
|> theology from a Episcopalian in America for a year and can teach you a
|> thing or two about the religion in which your forefathers were forcibly
|> converted. I am against Proselytising Christian Church and not against
|> Christianity another form of worship.
No..this is not the religion that converted my forefathers. It were the
Jesuits, the Roman Catholics who did it. Just because you studied theology
from a Episcopalian in America for a year does not mean you can teach me
about the religion which converted my forefathers. That is like saying
if know about Jainism you could teach me Sikhism. Even though some of
the principles are the same. Why not be against all kinds of religious
Proselytising ? Why only Christian ? What distinguishes Christian from
other religions ?
|> What competition is this Sylvia. Is Religion a popularity contest for
|> the CHristians. If that is so what you think then you bring great shame
|> to this way of worship.
"A well established Proselytization Machine - MISSIONARIES"
Look at the headers of your post. Its like you detest the machinary. What
better way to get rid of it than to compete with it ? In my opinion, religion
is something personal to help you spiritually. If it becomes a crutch discard
it. If you fight over it, it is not worth it. The only reason I got into this
is in your blind hatred for anything and everyone that does anything in the
name of the Christian religion you attacked a person not worthy of your hatred.
What do you know of what, when, why and how I worship ?
--
Sylvia D. D'Cruz
Sylvia D. D'Cruz
Could not agree with you more. This is an instance. Maybe in their zeal to
promote themselves over God they used their own mechanisms. After all the
christians doing that are also human. Also be careful, the reason the guy
could have said "no" was because he may have been afraid to admit that
he did it of his own free will to suffer other consequences. It is easier
to get by with that answer than to admit. People do a lot of things out of
their own free will for the sake of the basics - food, clothing and shelter.
Prasad Gokhale
>Mahajan, do you want a Hindu to recieve the nobel peace prize ? Then support
>the Hindus that are doing that good work. Get enough publicity for them.
>And the most important step is to publicise and inform the world about the
>Hindus (wherever they are) working for peace among all peoples, not just
>Hindus.
Sorry to interrupt, but could'nt resist.
There are many people in Bharat who have been tirelessly working for the
upliftment of the downtrodden for quite a few years. That too with a big
scarcity in funding. None of them ever asked for publicity, nor did any
institition (Hindu) publicized their work. From your words above, looks
like Mother Teresa bagged the Nobel Prize due to sheer publicity of her
work thru' the Catholic Church.
No..the Hindus do not require to garland themselves with the Nobel Prize,
if it means that 'publicity', 'lots of funding' and 'politics' are
pre-requsites.
>Theresa is not selective in who she healps. She does not ask the dying man
>whether he is a Hindu or a Christian, before she takes them in. If she can
I know of one incident of forceful conversion at Mother Teresa's camps.
A journalist from Vadodara (?) visited Mother Teresa's Ashram in Calcutta
to conduct some survey. Upon her arrival there, the journalist was focefully
bound and gagged and held in a celler for 3 days. She also was neither given any
food or water, because she persistently denied to be converted to the Christian
faith! Other ladies in the ashram watached all this, but none of them had the
courage to speak up against the atrocities. Everyone was acting as if this
was a normal procedure !!!!
The poor journalist had to return without any survey, only with lot of beating
and abuse.
If this is known by the GOI, do the politicians have the courage to order
Mother Teresa's arrest ? I think not. They are worried about 'international
image' and scared of the 'wrath of the Christian world'.
Mother Teresa may be helping the poor and the downtrodden, but not without
a cause.
>And the best and the worst comes through in competition. Get your machine
>going. As they say "Competition brings out the best end product, but the
>worst in human relationships".
Aa ha! This is wonderful! Even competition in social service projects ? Do
you understand what is 'selfless service' ? There is no promotion of the
'self' in the 'service'. This is no commercial market, nor a political
bazzar.
If Mother Teresa is working for the aggradizement of her own image (thats
what you believe), then why should I call her a 'social worker' ? She is
nothing more than a missionary, of a lesser degree than Xavier ofcourse.
--Prasad.
Kevin Pinto
groups with these discussions.
jmah...@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Jayant Mahajan) tells us:
>
>
> Mother Teresa is known to
>be very strict about only baptized Catholics working for her
>organization. I am trying to get hold of a Government of India sponsored
>commission report which was released in parts in the early sixties which
>has documented the anti National Missionary activities of the Christian
>church in the North East. Mother Teresa was banned (even today) from
>visiting the sensitive North east sections of our Motherland. I will try
>and get excat nature of this ban and the areas.
Incidentally, Mr. Mahajan, you and I also require an inner-line
permit to visit Arunachal Pradesh. The inner-line permit
requirement is something which was instituted by the British, and
which the Government of India found convenient to maintain. The
GOI has also found it convenient, as I remind you, to ban the VHP. As
far as the GOI report goes, please do publish it when and if you
locate it.
>
>Here is a list of political Nobel Prizes in Peace
>
>Name Country of work Organization
>
>Mother Teresa India Catholic Church
>Bishop Tutu South Africa Catholic Church
Bishop Desmond Tutu in the Catholic Church! Ignoramus!
>
>President . . . Central America Close ties with church
>
Given that Central America is overwhelmingly populated by
Christians, your President . . . (you can name him, can't you?)
might well have close ties with the Church.
Kevin
Kuram T Narayana
>In article <CCBs7...@cse.psu.edu>, nara...@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>|> In article <25g166$9...@meaddata.meaddata.com> s...@meaddata.com (Sylvia D. D'Cruz) writes:
>|> >helping in a tradegy is "Oh they are going to be converted". Most of the
>|> >conversions have not been forceful in this century. But, the GOI has to be
>|> >watchful, in areas where christianity is above the 2/3 % mark. Mother
>|>
>|> If by forced conversions you mean using the stick, I agree. However I
>|> specifically know of an instance of a low caste person in the slum I
>|> used to work in Bombay who was converted to Christianity by inducement.
>|> The inducement for him (and according to him) was several kilos of
>|> wheat flour from the church. I specifically asked him whether he would
>|> have gotten the flour without converting to christianity, he said "no."
>|>
>|> Gandhi in many of his sermons used to rail the church at their
>|> habit of converting people by inducements. That is a forced and
>|> the most pathetic attempt at promoting a religion.
>|>
>|> >Sylvia D. D'Cruz.
>|> ..kt
>
>Could not agree with you more. This is an instance. Maybe in their zeal to
>promote themselves over God they used their own mechanisms. After all the
You are too sophisticated to admit the truth that christain missionaries
use such inducements to convert low caste people. I have known people
(for example the mother of a friend of mine is a christian) who have
volunteered to become christians. I have all priase appreciation for
them as I have for every practicing christian or even Islamic worshipper.
>christians doing that are also human. Also be careful, the reason the guy
>could have said "no" was because he may have been afraid to admit that
>he did it of his own free will to suffer other consequences. It is easier
>to get by with that answer than to admit. People do a lot of things out of
>their own free will for the sake of the basics - food, clothing and shelter.
I think you underestimate some of us and our sincerity. I don't narate
instances unless I felt that the said convert was honorable in his
words. He was. He got the flour every week. Just admit that many a
time missionaries do such things, which are bad. If some one convinces
a person to choose a particular religion and he volunteers for the
same, I don't think there will be a single soul in the free land of
India who objects to that. We are such a tolerant and admirable people.
...kt
Sylvia D. D'Cruz
|> There are many people in Bharat who have been tirelessly working for the
|> upliftment of the downtrodden for quite a few years. That too with a big
|> scarcity in funding. None of them ever asked for publicity, nor did any
|> institition (Hindu) publicized their work. From your words above, looks
|> like Mother Teresa bagged the Nobel Prize due to sheer publicity of her
|> work thru' the Catholic Church.
No if interested read the followup. Why is it so easy to misread something
that is not there ? You don't have to publicize your own work. The people
who benefit from that work, generally do that. If someone helped me in need
I will talk about it and through word of mouth things get around. Help
more people and more people will talk about it. Some even write in.
|> No..the Hindus do not require to garland themselves with the Nobel Prize,
|> if it means that 'publicity', 'lots of funding' and 'politics' are
|> pre-requsites.
Are you speaking for all the Hindus in the world ? Most people who offer their
services to the needy don't expect anything in return. Mother Theresa too
has stated that on a number of occassions. I sense a lot of animosity in both
your post and that of Mahajan. If the nobel prize generates the funding and
it helps further the cause, I don't see anything wrong with that.
|> I know of one incident of forceful conversion at Mother Teresa's camps.
|> A journalist from Vadodara (?) visited Mother Teresa's Ashram in Calcutta
|> to conduct some survey. Upon her arrival there, the journalist was focefully
|> bound and gagged and held in a celler for 3 days. She also was neither given any
|> food or water, because she persistently denied to be converted to the Christian
|> faith! Other ladies in the ashram watached all this, but none of them had the
|> courage to speak up against the atrocities. Everyone was acting as if this
|> was a normal procedure !!!!
|>
|> The poor journalist had to return without any survey, only with lot of beating
|> and abuse.
One incident not even committed by her. And, you go off accusing her. I find it
really strange that they would do it to that to a journalist. What better
way to get publicity, right ?
|> If this is known by the GOI, do the politicians have the courage to order
|> Mother Teresa's arrest ? I think not. They are worried about 'international
|> image' and scared of the 'wrath of the Christian world'.
GOI has been scared of the wrath of the Hindus. In recent years they have
been throwing out any foreign missonarries. And, have been denying visas to
most of the foreign missionaries and clergy. They would like to throw her
out, but they have not yet been provided with that golden opportunity.
Why don't you present the above case to the GOI for grounds on which to
be banished forever.
|> Mother Teresa may be helping the poor and the downtrodden, but not without
|> a cause.
What's her cause ? She sees God in the poor and the down trodden folks. She
has choosen that way of life to help them. Because she believes that by
helping the poor and the neglected she is closer to God. Whats wrong in that ?
|> Aa ha! This is wonderful! Even competition in social service projects ? Do
|> you understand what is 'selfless service' ? There is no promotion of the
|> 'self' in the 'service'. This is no commercial market, nor a political
|> bazzar.
A header with the following message "A well established Proselytization
Machine - MISSIONARIES -". It appears that Mahajan fears or hates this
machine more than the religion. Go compete with it........if it helps you
allay your fears. Or how will you deal with it ?
|> If Mother Teresa is working for the aggradizement of her own image (thats
|> what you believe), then why should I call her a 'social worker' ? She is
That I believe ? excuse me......where did you get that from ? reading stuff
into something that is not there. And, how easy it is for you to change based
on something you believe that I have said. Actually it does not matter what
you call her. Her work speaks louder than anything that is writen by you.
It shows how low you can stoop to want to speak ill of someone who has not
hurt India or Hinduism or you in anyway...but has only helped.
|> nothing more than a missionary, of a lesser degree than Xavier ofcourse.
Somehow the word missionary has acquired a negative image. Maybe due to the
work of earlier, zealous missionaries. I really believe she is a living
saint.
When fear governs your thought and being you can never see things in the
true perspective.
|> --Prasad.
Narain
: In article <1993Aug24....@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu>, jmah...@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu (Jayant Mahajan) writes:
: Please refer to the above if interested.
: Mahajan, do you want a Hindu to recieve the nobel peace prize ? Then support
Who cares about the Noble prize. If you note that the two Noble
laureates of Des returned it back to the crapiola pushers.
: the Hindus that are doing that good work. Get enough publicity for them.
Noops baby that ain't how Hinduism works. The service is selfless.
It is not for want of fame or power. Screw your Khurchan indoctrination.
: And the most important step is to publicise and inform the world about the
: Hindus (wherever they are) working for peace among all peoples, not just
: Hindus.
Buul. I would rather walk away from such a person for he would be
no Hindu. It is Service above self.
: You really have the nerve to display your ignorance and your bigotry. Lets
: see some more from you.
You are the one who is a bigot. Why don't you or any of your
christian friends including Teresa publicise the stats of conversion
forced or not of , of Middle or Higher income group.
Why don't you answer anything rather than yelling bigot fanatic and
evading specific issues about right wing christian propaganda ?
: And the best and the worst comes through in competition. Get your machine
No , there is no competition. Hinduism is no converting machine.
You need to stop you propaganda machine.
Do you admit that you were ASKED TO POST THOSE ARTICLES ATLEAST 3 OF
WHICH WERE NOT OBTAINED BY YOU FROM THE SOURCES YOU CLAIMED TO HAVE
GOT IT FROM ?
: Sylvia D. D'Cruz.
Kuram T Narayana
>
>GOI has been scared of the wrath of the Hindus. In recent years they have
>been throwing out any foreign missonarries. And, have been denying visas to
>most of the foreign missionaries and clergy. They would like to throw her
>out, but they have not yet been provided with that golden opportunity.
>Why don't you present the above case to the GOI for grounds on which to
>be banished forever.
Many a time you blindly defend the foreign missionaries in India. Please
remember that I have nothing against Christianity or Christians of India.
There was this celebrated case of a Spanish Bishop. I forgot his name. It
was mid sixties and early seventies. This guy was exiled from Maharastra,
then went to Madhyapradesh. He was exiled for his activities from
Madhyaprasdesh, then he came to the Andhrapradesh state and set up his
center in Anantapur district. This was a celebrated case in which the
then chief minister Kasu Brahmaananda Reddy provided the requisite
official cover of this bishop to carry on his activities. It was only
after a continuous uproar, when all means of his stay were exhausted, he
was made to leave Andhrapradesh. I think he was made to leave India.
Please correct me if I am wrong on that score and he is still around
in India using some law or other.
...kt
>
>Sylvia D. D'Cruz
dipen bhattacharya
are going through. Not only Mother Teresa, somebody doesn't like
Dalai Lama or Aung San getting the Nobel Prize. There must be a
big western conspiracy going on--the last two persons were
awarded not to show support for their struggle against the Chinese
or Burmese Govt., but to undermine the rising philanthropist,
altruistic spirit of Hinduism!!!!!!
[I wonder why the Parsee community hasn't been yet dubbed as anti-Indian?
They haven't converted any temple, but have you read Roshan Mistry? He
seems to have written pretty anti-Hindu stuff..against Shiv Sena.]
The new Hindu resurgence looks through a monchromatic glass of
insecurity which can only breed vengeance and a narrow vision, eventually
this may destroy the kaleidoscopic India. Unfortunately, this will
also create a version of Hinduism which devoid of its wider nature
will be dogmatic and proselytizing.
Dipen
Prasad Gokhale
>|> If this is known by the GOI, do the politicians have the courage to order
>|> Mother Teresa's arrest ? I think not. They are worried about 'international
>|> image' and scared of the 'wrath of the Christian world'.
>
>GOI has been scared of the wrath of the Hindus. In recent years they have
>been throwing out any foreign missonarries. And, have been denying visas to
>most of the foreign missionaries and clergy. They would like to throw her
>out, but they have not yet been provided with that golden opportunity.
>Why don't you present the above case to the GOI for grounds on which to
>be banished forever.
I may be interpreting this incorrectly, but looks like you know quite
a bit about the GOI rejecting Visa's to Christian missionaries. Maybe
you know the missionaries whose Visas were refused by GOI. Is it that
you are involved in supporting the missionary activities in Bharat and
elsewhere ?
Again, this 'throwing out M.Teresa' thing. Who told you all this ? As far
as I know, GOI has been pouring encomiums on M.Teresa and her missonary
work. I do not know for certain, but I think she has bagged some state award
too....
The termination of missonary conversion activites (both physical and mental)
won't be a very easy task. Atleast the present 'secular' GOI is incapable
of doing it...
I am all praises for M.Teresa's upliftment work. She probably is a human
godess. Her followers, co-workers and funding agencies may have a
different agenda then hers though...
Namaste.
--Prasad.
Prasad Gokhale
I remember reading a news clipping, that a Pope from some town from
Andhra Pradesh was arrested for trial for the murder of a local
social worker named Jain. Shri Jain apparently had opposed the
' style of social work' of the Pope and exposed his 'activities'
in a public meet. A few days later, he was found killed.
Now, what kind of 'godman' Pope is this ? And if I m correct, these
'selfless social workers' are paid a monthly salary by their respective
Chrurch denominations.. 'social service', hah ?
---Prasad.
Anand Bemra
> Mother Theresa is not selective in who she healps. She does
> not ask the dying man
>whether he is a Hindu or a Christian, before she takes them in. If she can
>tell what religion he professes, the dying rites are performed as per that
>religion.
This is a lie. As an example, her missionary workers would
not help a dying man on the street unless he were to kiss the
cross. And when he refused, these missionaries cursed him and
walked away.
Mother Theresa might have started with good intentions but the
long arms of Vatican sooner or later get to you.
More recently in Colarado, when the Pope was questioned about the dismal
rate of americans seeking priesthood, he refered to India among other
countries as fertile grounds for making up for lack of enrollment in U.S.
>Sylvia D. D'Cruz.
--
Screw PBS & NPR news. Tired of news "sanitized for your protection?". Try:
misc.activism.progressive, "Lies Of Our [NY]Times", "Z" magazine (Boston).
KPFA 94.1 FM (Bay Area), 90.7 (L.A.), 90.1 (Houston, TX), 89.3 (Washington, DC)
These are my opinions, not my employer's.
Robert Demann
>Xref: math.fu-berlin.de soc.culture.indian:99130 soc.culture.indian.telugu:6581 soc.culture.tamil:14421 alt.politics.india.progressive:539
>Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.indian.telugu,soc.culture.tamil,alt.politics.india.progressive
>Path: math.fu-berlin.de!xlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!spool.mu.edu!torn!csd.unb.ca!f0g1
>From: f0...@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Prasad Gokhale)
>Subject: Re: Mother Teresa, Christian Proselytization and the Bhopal Gas Tragedy
>Message-ID: <1993Aug26....@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>
>Keywords: A well established Proselytization Machine - MISSIONARIES -
>Organization: University of New Brunswick
>References: <1993Aug25.1...@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> <25gjii$n...@meaddata.meaddata.com> <CCC35...@cse.psu.edu>
>Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1993 00:53:03 GMT
>Lines: 36
> ---Prasad.
There is some misunderstanding here. Probably you meant a priest or friar. We
only have one Pope and he sits in Rome. I am almost quite sure that the Pope
did not do any social work in Andhra Pradesh. You might be correct about the
priest. But Christians are also Human beings :-). We also have black sheep and
it is also no secret that Christians (including priests) have killed for their
religion. But then tell me which other major religion has not ?
Robert Demann
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Harald Kottukapally Demann
Contact
robert...@sowi.uni-bamberg.d400.de
OR
rde...@nyx.cs.du.edu
God is REAL unless declared INTEGER
---------------------------------------------------------------------
CHRISTOPHER J DCOSTA
an...@Cadence.COM (Anand Bemra) writes
>s...@meaddata.com (Sylvia D. D'Cruz) writes:
>
>> Mother Theresa is not selective in who she healps. She does
>> not ask the dying man
>>whether he is a Hindu or a Christian, before she takes them in. If she can
>>tell what religion he professes, the dying rites are performed as per that
>>religion.
>
>This is a lie. As an example, her missionary workers would
>not help a dying man on the street unless he were to kiss the
>cross. And when he refused, these missionaries cursed him and
>walked away.
Did you witness this? Or what did you mean by "as an example"? Was this, ahem,
a _hypothetical_ example?
Please provide attributions in the future, especially when you describe these
"examples" as supporting evidence. This smacks of fantasy RSS-VHP rote to me.
Repeat a lie often enough, and sooner or later these products of idle wishful
thinking magically have delusions of being the truth.
On the other hand if what you write IS true, then there is certainly cause for
concern, in fact more so among Catholics than any other creed. Because unlike
the"facts" that you've been programmed with, Catholicism may encourage
evangelism,but it does NOT permit unsolicited, unwilling, or forced conversions.
No matter what you or anyone else would like to believe.
But you don't have to believe me. Walk into a Catholic Church and tell them
that you want to become a Catholic. Before doing so, enlighten us as to what
you expect, if only for the humorous content.
You see, Anand, you will NOT receive free gifts for "signing up". You will
receive NO incentives for "switching". And you will receive NO guarantees.
The process is NOT analogous to that of choosing a long-distance telephone
company, unlike what your RSS/BJP/VHP friends would have you believe.
Accepting and being accepted into Catholicism is a process that is far more
complex than you dare to believe. You will be warned of the difficulties that
lie ahead of you, and the enormity of the step that you apparently wish to
commit to. You will be carefully questioned to ascertain if your decision to
convert is sincere, and your own decision, rather than one forced on you by
another. You will have to undergo a rigorous period of study and prayer. And
only if and when you believe that you are ready, and the authorities believe
that you are ready, will you be accepted into the church.
Try this, and you will have some first hand evidence either supporting or
contradicting your claims, which will make for a refreshing change from the
stale bigoted rote that's been appearing here in increasing amounts.
>Mother Theresa might have started with good intentions but the
>long arms of Vatican sooner or later get to you.
You have not shown satisfactory evidence for this. Your melodrama is
amusing, but little else.
>More recently in Colarado, when the Pope was questioned about the dismal
>rate of americans seeking priesthood, he refered to India among other
>countries as fertile grounds for making up for lack of enrollment in U.S.
Assuming that this was indeed said, what did you conclude and why? I ask, not
because I necessarily condone or applaud that statement, but because you have
not thought it pertinent to express your particular grievience with it. I do
hope that this statement wasn't quoted so that someone out there could find one
for you.
Chris
Sylvia D. D'Cruz
|> You are too sophisticated to admit the truth that christain missionaries
|> use such inducements to convert low caste people. I have known people
|> (for example the mother of a friend of mine is a christian) who have
|> volunteered to become christians. I have all priase appreciation for
|> them as I have for every practicing christian or even Islamic worshipper.
|>
|> instances unless I felt that the said convert was honorable in his
|> words. He was. He got the flour every week. Just admit that many a
|> time missionaries do such things, which are bad. If some one convinces
|> a person to choose a particular religion and he volunteers for the
|> same, I don't think there will be a single soul in the free land of
|> India who objects to that. We are such a tolerant and admirable people.
|> ...kt
I don't need sophistication to admit the truth. If you read my previous post
on this, I admited that the instance you referred to does happen. But, in most
cases the motivation and the intentions behind the decision is not always
known. Most people are tolerant and admirable. And, most followers of any
religion are tolerant and admirable. You are confusing the promoters and the
leaders of a religion with their followers. In some cases the leaders of
a religion forget that they are working together for the betterment of the
people and go after their own private ambitions. There are people like that
in all religions. Maybe that is a personal failing. But, not too many people
these days want to become a religious. They prefer to follow. To keep with
the times things need to change so that the best people can lead.
I got some personal mail on the subject, too. About Gandhi requesting to
see the Pope and denied to see him. Gandhi liked the teachings of the
Christian religion, and the followers of the religion. What he detested was
the Vatican or the adminstrative part of it. Too much power, control and
ambitions. I don't deny this. And, that is a big failing. Some devot
Catholics too have left the fold because of that. At some point or the other
some Catholics have become disillusioned with the Church and clergy. Change
is needed here. Don't attack the religion or the followers because of the
weeknesses of its religious. Most religions have some religious who let their
personal ambitions and desires get in the way of their teachings. They are
human too.
As long as you use the principles of a religion in your day to day life, there
is no conflict. Sometimes interactions with some of its religious may lead
you to question the religion itself. And, thats the problem.
Affable
Mother Teresa, Christian Proselytization and the Bhopal Gas Tragedy
I request you folks to restict these type of postings to SCI and APIP.
Those who're interested will subscribe to these newsgroups and read the
above type of articles. I appreciate Kevin Pinto who is trying
desperately to restrict them to the concerned newsgroups by putting
appropriate "follow-up header".
Thanks,
Venkat
Sylvia D. D'Cruz
|> I may be interpreting this incorrectly, but looks like you know quite
|> a bit about the GOI rejecting Visa's to Christian missionaries. Maybe
|> you know the missionaries whose Visas were refused by GOI. Is it that
|> you are involved in supporting the missionary activities in Bharat and
|> elsewhere ?
|>
|> Again, this 'throwing out M.Teresa' thing. Who told you all this ? As far
|> as I know, GOI has been pouring encomiums on M.Teresa and her missonary
|> work. I do not know for certain, but I think she has bagged some state award
|> too....
|>
|> The termination of missonary conversion activites (both physical and mental)
|> won't be a very easy task. Atleast the present 'secular' GOI is incapable
|> of doing it...
|>
|> I am all praises for M.Teresa's upliftment work. She probably is a human
|> godess. Her followers, co-workers and funding agencies may have a
|> different agenda then hers though...
|>
|> Namaste.
|>
|> --Prasad.
Prasad I think you have some reading comprehension problem or maybe I have
not expressed myself clearly. The GOI needs the votes from all kinds and
types of people to remain in power and do whatever they need to do. But,
the sad part of all this is that Hindu nationalistic feelings, fundamentalism,
and fanatism is on the rise in India. These people want most religious of
other religions out of the country. And, the GOI is bowing to pressure from
those people. And, those same poeple feel that religious of any other
religion should not be awarded.
Because Hinduism has been largely free from fanatics and fundu's it has
resisted other religions. No matter how hard other religious tried they
were barely able to convert but a small percentage of Hindus. Hindus need
not fear other religions and religious people. The fear will eventually
turn inward towards these fundu's and fanatic Hindus. They are ones
who will damage Hindusism more than anybody else. It is really, really
sad to see educated, hindus falling for those suckers. They are ambitious,
selfish and bigotted. They will destroy the true Indianess and spirit of
India. Not people from or off other religions. These are the fundu's who
have been able to corrupt the thinking of tolerant and amicable Hindus.
It is easy for me to see just scanning a few articles on SCI the tolerant
and the not so tolerant. Prasad people support and are affiliated with
different organizations because of their beliefs and their needs. And, who
I support with my time and my money is none of your business. I said there
are enough of these fundu's who would want to throw out Mother Theresa too.
Why do you find it difficult to believe that ? They want to get rid of
Catholic schools. They want Christians out of politics (not that there are
many) they want a Hindu Raj, a Hindu constitution and only Hindu temples
throught India. Believe me that will never, ever happen. Dream on .......
You may fool some Hindus, but never, ever enough. And, I don't really
understand why followers of other religions should even fear about that.
Nothing can ever be obtained or achieved through fear and large scale brain-
washing.
Prasad Gokhale
>In article <1993Aug26....@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca>, f0...@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca (Prasad Gokhale) writes:
>|> I may be interpreting this incorrectly, but looks like you know quite
>|> a bit about the GOI rejecting Visa's to Christian missionaries. Maybe
>|> you know the missionaries whose Visas were refused by GOI. Is it that
>|> you are involved in supporting the missionary activities in Bharat and
>|> elsewhere ?
>|>
>|> Again, this 'throwing out M.Teresa' thing. Who told you all this ? As far
as I know, GOI has been pouring encomiums on M.Teresa and her missonary
>|> godess. Her followers, co-workers and funding agencies may have a
>|> different agenda then hers though...
Slyvia's writes on what Hinduism is, how it is being tampered by the Hindus
temselves, GOI bowing to the pressure of Hindus, other religions should be
banished from Bharat, how educated Hindus are unsuspecting, innocent and
fall to the tricks of selfish, bigotted, Hindus suckers...etc.
Slyvia'ji...I thought we were discussing Christian proselytization and
missionary activities in Bharat. Not 'what HInduism is, how is should be,
and how many Hindus are bad'. Just because you support Christian proselytization
and that activity is being questioned, you accuse the Hindus of being fanatic,
fundu, etc. Just mentioning what the Christian missionaries have done in Goa
and pointing out the atrocities of "Saint" Xavier, does not imply 'all religion
except Hinduism, should be kicked out of Bharat, suppress all religious
activities, etc.' You accuse me for reading something that is not there, and
you yourself do exactly the same.
>the sad part of all this is that Hindu nationalistic feelings, fundamentalism,
>and fanatism is on the rise in India. These people want most religious of
>other religions out of the country. And, the GOI is bowing to pressure from
>those people. And, those same poeple feel that religious of any other
>religion should not be awarded.
>and the not so tolerant. Prasad people support and are affiliated with
>different organizations because of their beliefs and their needs. And, who
>I support with my time and my money is none of your business. I said there
>are enough of these fundu's who would want to throw out Mother Theresa too.
Now this is very funny. If your needs and desires are to proselytize Hindus
by fraud, then of course it is my business. I have no problems you associating
with any organization and set of beliefs. But when it comes to conversion
by fraud, then...
Look, you are the one who is saying that some body out there are all set
to throw out Mother Teresa, not me. I have said it before, and I repeat.
I have great respect for what M.Teresa is doing. It is just that I do not
approve of her (or may be of her associates and not her) trying to convert
Hindus in the name of that service.
BTW, the experience of the journalisng tortured in M.Teresa's camp, appeared
in Tarun Bharat. I will post the report this afternoon.
>Why do you find it difficult to believe that ? They want to get rid of
>Catholic schools. They want Christians out of politics (not that there are
>many) they want a Hindu Raj, a Hindu constitution and only Hindu temples
>throught India. Believe me that will never, ever happen. Dream on .......
Again you are the one assuming all the above. Not me.
---Prasad.
Kevin Pinto
>
>I know of one incident of forceful conversion at Mother Teresa's camps.
>A journalist from Vadodara (?) visited Mother Teresa's Ashram in Calcutta
>to conduct some survey. Upon her arrival there, the journalist was focefully
>bound and gagged and held in a celler for 3 days. She also was neither given any
>food or water, because she persistently denied to be converted to the Christian
>faith! Other ladies in the ashram watached all this, but none of them had the
>courage to speak up against the atrocities. Everyone was acting as if this
>was a normal procedure !!!!
>
What stories! Come up with something more believable.
Kevin
Kevin Pinto
>
>I know of one incident of forceful conversion at Mother Teresa's camps.
>A journalist from Vadodara (?) visited Mother Teresa's Ashram in Calcutta
>to conduct some survey. Upon her arrival there, the journalist was focefully
>bound and gagged and held in a celler for 3 days. She also was neither given any
>food or water, because she persistently denied to be converted to the Christian
>faith! Other ladies in the ashram watached all this, but none of them had the
>courage to speak up against the atrocities. Everyone was acting as if this
>was a normal procedure !!!!
>
What stories! Come up with something more believable.
Kevin
Kuram T Narayana
>In article <CCC10...@cse.psu.edu>, nara...@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) writes:
>|> You are too sophisticated to admit the truth that christain missionaries
>|> use such inducements to convert low caste people. I have known people
>|> (for example the mother of a friend of mine is a christian) who have
>|> volunteered to become christians. I have all priase appreciation for
>|> them as I have for every practicing christian or even Islamic worshipper.
>|>
>|> I think you underestimate some of us and our sincerity. I don't narate
>|> instances unless I felt that the said convert was honorable in his
>|> words. He was. He got the flour every week. Just admit that many a
>|> time missionaries do such things, which are bad. If some one convinces
>|> a person to choose a particular religion and he volunteers for the
>|> same, I don't think there will be a single soul in the free land of
>|> India who objects to that. We are such a tolerant and admirable people.
>|> ...kt
>
>I don't need sophistication to admit the truth. If you read my previous post
>on this, I admited that the instance you referred to does happen. But, in most
>cases the motivation and the intentions behind the decision is not always
>known. Most people are tolerant and admirable. And, most followers of any
Now, you are digressing. What you have to prove is the following.
In majority of cases in which a low caste Hindu converts to Christianity,
no economic inducements are used. If you can establish through concrete
evidence that such is the case, then I am sure that any Hindu will show
his anger at the Christian missionary work. Indeed many of my Christian
friends are apalled at this aspect of Christianity, that in most part
puts them in a bad light; I am talking about practicing Christian friends
of mine. There are many nonpracticing Christian friends that I have.
In India, religious worship is a choice that is voluntarily exercised
by the individual. Whether some one chooses Islamic, Hindu, or Christian,
or Parsi, or Jewish, etc., is the individual's spiritual choice, and we
Indians, irrespective of our religous following, are able to live amicably
recognizing that the path to a man's Self-realization is charted by the
Individual himself.
With its degrading forms of conversion of people, often susceptible
people, the foreign missionaries always hurt the feelings and sentiments
of the local population, Christian and Hindu alike.
That is the reason why you have to give precise statistics of the
methods employed in the conversion process in order to justify the
presence of foreign missionaries on Indian soil.
>religion are tolerant and admirable. You are confusing the promoters and the
>leaders of a religion with their followers. In some cases the leaders of
Again you try to twist. I do not confuse the subject from the object.
When I talked of missionaries, I mean them, and more specifically
the foreign ones. I don't have an iota of objection if an Indian
pastor preaches his Gospel to Indians of any persuation as every
other Indian does of his Gospel under the acknowledged cultural
criteria. Indian's have an aversion to economic inducements in
the sphere of religion, which is deeply personal.
>a religion forget that they are working together for the betterment of the
>people and go after their own private ambitions. There are people like that
Such people exist in every religion. Christianity is not the only
one. I must add that I have taken `private ambition' in a loose
sense. In Hinduism `private ambition' when equated to Ego makes
a very deep theological connection to the Self, the Aatman and its
equation to the Brahman, the Paramaatman.
>I got some personal mail on the subject, too. About Gandhi requesting to
>see the Pope and denied to see him. Gandhi liked the teachings of the
>Christian religion, and the followers of the religion. What he detested was
>the Vatican or the adminstrative part of it. Too much power, control and
>ambitions. I don't deny this. And, that is a big failing. Some devot
>Catholics too have left the fold because of that. At some point or the other
>some Catholics have become disillusioned with the Church and clergy. Change
>is needed here. Don't attack the religion or the followers because of the
>weeknesses of its religious. Most religions have some religious who let their
>personal ambitions and desires get in the way of their teachings. They are
>human too.
I don't attack any religion. That is not the Hindu way of life. Hindus
(actually Indians of any religious persuation) don't do that. That is part
of our cultural edifice.
>Sylvia D. D'Cruz
...kt
Kevin Pinto
>
>I know of one incident of forceful conversion at Mother Teresa's camps.
>A journalist from Vadodara (?) visited Mother Teresa's Ashram in Calcutta
>to conduct some survey. Upon her arrival there, the journalist was focefully
>bound and gagged and held in a celler for 3 days. She also was neither given any
>food or water, because she persistently denied to be converted to the Christian
>faith! Other ladies in the ashram watached all this, but none of them had the
>courage to speak up against the atrocities. Everyone was acting as if this
>was a normal procedure !!!!
>
What stories! Come up with something more believable.
Kevin
From: Kevin Pinto <pi...@enuxsa.eas.asu.edu>
Reply-To: Kevin Pinto <Kevin...@asu.edu>
Subject: Re: Mother Teresa, Christian Proselytization and the Bhopal Gas Tragedy
Summary: Mother Teresa, Christian Proselytization and the Bhopal Gas Tragedy
References: <1993Aug24....@lynx.dac.northeastern.edu> <25g166$9...@meaddata.meaddata.com> <anand.746319950@negril>
Distribution: world
Organization: Arizona State University, Tempe AZ
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian,soc.culture.indian.telugu,soc.culture.tamil,alt.politics.india.progressive
Followup-To: soc.culture.indian,alt.politics.india.progressive
an...@Cadence.COM (Anand Bemra) tells us:
>s...@meaddata.com (Sylvia D. D'Cruz) writes:
>
>> Mother Theresa is not selective in who she healps. She does
>> not ask the dying man
>>whether he is a Hindu or a Christian, before she takes them in. If she can
>>tell what religion he professes, the dying rites are performed as per that
>>religion.
>
>This is a lie. As an example, her missionary workers would
>not help a dying man on the street unless he were to kiss the
>cross. And when he refused, these missionaries cursed him and
>walked away.
>
This is completely fabricated. No further comment is necessary.
>
>More recently in Colarado, when the Pope was questioned about the dismal
>rate of americans seeking priesthood, he refered to India among other
>countries as fertile grounds for making up for lack of enrollment in U.S.
>
There are several Indian Christians who are interested in the
priesthood, and the Indian Church is likely to provide a
disproportionate number of priests to the West in the future. That
is precisely what the Pope meant.
Kevin
Kevin Pinto
>s...@meaddata.com (Sylvia D. D'Cruz) writes:
>
>> Mother Theresa is not selective in who she healps. She does
>> not ask the dying man
>>whether he is a Hindu or a Christian, before she takes them in. If she can
>>tell what religion he professes, the dying rites are performed as per that
>>religion.
>
>This is a lie. As an example, her missionary workers would
>not help a dying man on the street unless he were to kiss the
>cross. And when he refused, these missionaries cursed him and
>walked away.
>
This is completely fabricated. No further comment is necessary.
>
>More recently in Colarado, when the Pope was questioned about the dismal
>rate of americans seeking priesthood, he refered to India among other
>countries as fertile grounds for making up for lack of enrollment in U.S.
>
There are several Indian Christians who are interested in the
arun.k.gupta
>I think you underestimate some of us and our sincerity. I don't narate
>instances unless I felt that the said convert was honorable in his
>words. He was. He got the flour every week. Just admit that many a
>time missionaries do such things, which are bad. If some one convinces
>a person to choose a particular religion and he volunteers for the
>same, I don't think there will be a single soul in the free land of
>India who objects to that. We are such a tolerant and admirable people.
>...kt
This sophisticated argument really impressed me. We are such admirable people
that we have lower caste people who are not treated as equals in religion.
Of course, we admire them for not accepting blandishments to change their
faith. (Privately we think they are dumb.)
-arun gupta
Kuram T Narayana
This sophisticated argument from some one who apparently
thinks (that he thinks) astounds me. The VarnaaSrama dharma
does not say that the vocations are unequal in any material
respect. Having said that VarnaaSrama dharma ordains the pursuit
of a vocation to a Jiva on the basis of his/her
puurvajanmakrutam. That is what the scripture asserts.
Hindu dharma regards the inequity of species as
evident in an axiomatic way. In the characterization,
the dharma deals with life forms ranging from plants,
insects, animals, humans and its four varnaas.
We are admirable precisely because our religion explicitly
treats inequity in our society and makes us reconcile to the
existence of that inequity.
...kt
partha
Assume that Mo. Theresa's intention is to convert the homeless/orphan
children she helps.
So what? At least they get a chance to live a decent life, isn't it better than
growing up in the streets and becoming beggers, robbers, drug-pushers?
Is religion so important here??? What do the religious (lets say
hindu or any religion) people do to the new-born child when a the
mother is a widow or an unmaried girl? desert in the street, right?
Many of Mo. Theresa's babies are like this.(atleast in Nirmal Hriday,
where the pick up destitute children from the streets, many of them
are in fact in critical situation when they are picked up)
Observe
1) that the religion of the parents and their society did not do
anything for these babies.
2) this kind of converts is different from "convert to religion X or
i cut your balls" or " convert to religion Y I will give you an export
liscence and a condo in west palm beach!".
These children grow up in catholic atmosphere, however i doubt if MO.
Theresa needs to submit a yearly audit report about how many converts
she made to vatican city, she is beyond that. And as Silvia points out
babies known to be hindu's are given to hindu families.
About the allegation regarding truck load bhopal children, I doubt it
very much, primarily because MO. Theresa's main concern is money and
space, i read her saying that how difficult it is for her and the
sisters when they have to choose a few from the many critical children
who needs help desparately,because she doesn't have enough beds and
resources.
POORVI L VORA
In Article 563 of alt.politics.india.progressive:
nara...@psuvax1.cse.psu.edu (Kuram T Narayana) says:
>.............................The VarnaaSrama dharma
>does not say that the vocations are unequal in any material
>respect.
and
>..............That is what the scripture asserts.
>Hindu dharma regards the inequity of species as
>evident in an axiomatic way. In the characterization,
>the dharma deals with life forms ranging from plants,
>insects, animals, humans and its four varnaas.
>We are admirable precisely because our religion explicitly
>treats inequity in our society and makes us reconcile to the
>existence of that inequity.
Are you saying that it is evident to Hindus why some people
are born poor? That it is evident why some are forced to carry
the excreta of others and thereafter be treated as untouchable?
That such a difference in vocation, between the carriers of
`night-soil' and the performers of pujas is not different in a
material sense? That Hinduism suggests that we reconcile ourselves
to this existing inequity?
This is probably your interpretation of Hindu doctrine. It is
also perhaps the interpretation of a number of other Indians,
given the predominance of the practice of untouchability in
modern-day India.
To suggest that this is what is admirable about Hinduism is
disgusting and abominable. I had to reread your post a number
of times to make sure that you were saying it at all.
Poorvi Vora
Jishnu Mukerji
|> This sophisticated argument from some one who apparently
|> thinks (that he thinks) astounds me. The VarnaaSrama dharma
|> does not say that the vocations are unequal in any material
|> respect. Having said that VarnaaSrama dharma ordains the pursuit
|> of a vocation to a Jiva on the basis of his/her
|> puurvajanmakrutam. That is what the scripture asserts.
|> Hindu dharma regards the inequity of species as
|> evident in an axiomatic way. In the characterization,
|> the dharma deals with life forms ranging from plants,
|> insects, animals, humans and its four varnaas.
intelligible? Is it trying to say that individuals of different castes actually
belong to different species in a biological sense, by transitivity from what they
had indulged in in their previous lives? Interesting thought that....
|> We are admirable precisely because our religion explicitly
|> treats inequity in our society and makes us reconcile to the
|> existence of that inequity.
Does "reconciling to the existence of that inequality" imply that one has to go
out of ones way to enforce that inequality? What is wrong with the inequalities
taking care of themselves depending on the abilities of the individuals concerned
instead of setting up a whole human framework to enforce inequalities?
--
Jishnu Mukerji
j...@usl.com
+1 908 522 5024
Kuram T Narayana
>|> We are admirable precisely because our religion explicitly
>|> treats inequity in our society and makes us reconcile to the
>|> existence of that inequity.
>
>Does "reconciling to the existence of that inequality" imply that one has to go
>out of ones way to enforce that inequality? What is wrong with the inequalities
>taking care of themselves depending on the abilities of the individuals concerned
>instead of setting up a whole human framework to enforce inequalities?
>
The scripture does not assign anyone to enforce inequality. Indeed in
the vocational regime, it does not even consider them as unequal. It
was so for a long time till the time ofthe Barbarian Islamic invasions
came into picture. There were people migrating between vocations of
their choice.
The scripture can only speak of evidential truth. It also provides
for people to ascend to higher levels in the ambit of their own
perceived inequity.
...kt
Murthy Gandikota
>We are admirable precisely because our religion explicitly
>treats inequity in our society and makes us reconcile to the
>existence of that inequity.
Pardon my crude intrusion into this sophisticated BS. I don't think I want
to be a part of the *we* you are ascribing to, if all Hinduism does is
merely reconcile with inequities, sort of eye-wash. You are talking like
an ayurvedic who might've said (before he got took over by an allopath):
"You have a disease many others don't have. But because a few others
have what you have, I will consider you as a patient. Meanwhile can
you wait outside because my priority is to treat the ones without any
disease first."
--
Murthy Gandikota (908) 582-5860
Rm. 6H-514 , Building 6, P.O.Box 636
Mountain Avenue
Murray Hill, NJ 07974-0636, USA
Murthy Gandikota
>There are several Indian Christians who are interested in the
>priesthood, and the Indian Church is likely to provide a
>disproportionate number of priests to the West in the future. That
>is precisely what the Pope meant.
I am only curious about what the author is implying here. What is a
proportionate number? I am told catholic church is very picky
about its priests. So they don't have to justify anything what so ever.
There is no quota system or equality there. For instance, if you are a
woman or a married male, you can forget about being a priest for catholic
church. Isn't it strange that the Pope wants everyone to live like
in 0th century B.C.? However, the pope had some French sounding preparations
made of beef and other delectable meats on the American Airlines flight
back to Vatican. Wonder, if Jesus would approve of such luxury without
even making a sacrifice for anyone (if that should be a last supper or
the Holy Pope's trek in Colorado mountains shouldn't be that painful with
the Reebok cross-training shoes made by Computer Aided Design technology
possibly developed by a bunch of non-catholics in some part of Asia revelling
under their non-catholic upbringing; who knows possibly practising
homosexuality in their lunch-breaks. I would assume if such sacriligeous
shoes are worthy enough to wear, then the hands that made the shoes
should be worthy of their nocturnal deeds going against the Catholic
church's command).
To cut the rambling chase, what's up Kevin Pinto, and other Christians
on the net, has the time come for non-homosexed, bachelorhooded,
non-pedophilic catholics of India to shine under the Vatican stars?
Who knows they might succeed in convincing the Pope that Holy Jesus
arrived in Goa before the Portugeese did? That should really fix the
Euro-centric bullshit we are taught even in the Indian history text
books, not just in USA.
Finally, Padre, I am not a total hypocrite. It is shame that Hindus
riling us here, and telling us how good their religion is, didn't
elect a female as a "Sankaracharya" (acharyini). AFAIK there are no
female priests in a "male god" temple, especially in the service of
the most masculine Siva linga. I think they should remember that when
they raise a finger at others, one finger is pointing at them too.
As far as my religion goes, I am mostly a pagan, who believes in
worshipping the pure information processing forms.
Amen,
murthy
manavb...@gmail.com
"The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice is an essay by the British-American journalist and polemicist Christopher Hitchens"
Regards
On Wednesday, 25 August 1993 04:09:58 UTC+5:30, Jayant Mahajan wrote:
> CHRISTIAN PROSELYTIZATION and the Bhopal Gas Tragedy
>
> The work done by Mother teresa amongst the needy over the last 4 decades
> is commendable. She along with many RSS workers and RamKrishna Mission
> Swamis have earned a very special place in my heart. However the
> Catholic missionary group that Mother teresa works with (or is the head
> of) is the one we all should know about. The politics of awarding a
> Nobel Prize can become the topic for another article. However, I pity
> the politically naive Indians who have no sense of politics and what
> drives mass actions. Be it political, military, economic or religious.
> But this naive attitude of Indians in general frightens me. I cant
> believe that the ancestors of such a race produced a Krishna, a
> Chanakya, a Shivaji or a Vivekananda, who knew the difference between
> the good from the dangerously good.
>
> This is a true incident that occured which can give you an indication of
> the proselytizing nature and consequences of Missionary work in India.
> After the Bhopal Gas leak, several thousand people living in poor bastis
> died immediately or within days of the tragic incidence. This tragedy
> left behind immediately several hundred orphaned poor children. In the
> ensuing confusion, these children were herded together and loaded in
> several buses in the middle of the night. Actually these children were
> under the protection of the state until their relatives were informed.
> They were being taken away by the Christian Missionary Organization of
> Mother Teresa. A very alert Commissioner of Bhopal immediately swung
> into action and stopped the buses 100 kilometers from Bhopal and brought
> the buses back to Bhopal. The whole matter was hushed up. The
> Commissioner was transferred the next week. These children were
> literally being stolen in the missionary zeal to covert and bring them
> into the Christian fold. I would like an independent corraboration of
> this incident. The Commissioners nephew who narrated this incident is a
> socialist activist is still a good friend of mine.
>
> Mother Teresa is known to
> be very strict about only baptized Catholics working for her
> organization. I am trying to get hold of a Government of India sponsored
> commission report which was released in parts in the early sixties which
> has documented the anti National Missionary activities of the Christian
> church in the North East. Mother Teresa was banned (even today) from
> visiting the sensitive North east sections of our Motherland. I will try
> and get excat nature of this ban and the areas.
>
> My advice to Indians is that after a history of 1000 years of Foreign
> rule. Suspect everything. Never take anything at face value. You dont
> have to go and spread bad gossip about Foreign Christian Missionaries.
> But just remember that your countries and Motherlands future security is
> at stake.
>
> The politics of the Nobel Prize is not very plain and simple. I am not
> an alarmist. But a country of 850 million people and a culture to potect
> needs to be very careful.
> Here is a list of political Nobel Prizes in Peace
>
> Name Country of work Organization
>
> Mother Teresa India Catholic Church
> Bishop Tutu South Africa Catholic Church
> Dalai Lama Tibet/China Buddhist
> ...(some lady) Burma Democracy activist
> (husband is a Catholic European and she has been baptized too)
> President . . . Central America Close ties with church
>
> This is just a partial list. The Nobel prize attracts a lot of positive
> publicity and indirect promotion of the individual and cause. I am in no
> way casting any doubts about these individuals. I am not interested in
> that at present. However, I have strong doubts about the compelling
> reasons that led to this choice of individuals. I am casting doubts on
> the selection commiittee and the selection process.