Fresh from Iraq, a Marine sees the USA going the way of Rome
mentat...@aol.com
From: [Name Withheld]
I have two tattoos on my arms. On one arm: the mark of the Roman
Legion, SPQR and on the other, the flag raising on Iwo Jima.
While in Iraq, I often wondered if the Romans of the imperial times
felt like they were fighting for nothing other than the wealth of a
privileged elite and the glory of an emperor. Did they feel that their
sacrifices were in vain? Or was the war booty enough to offset such
sentiment?
I began to look at that "SPQR" in another light.
SPQR is Latin for "Senatus Populusque Romanus," or "for the Senate and
People of Rome."
Thousands of Romans died for the idea of the Roman republic and the
people that made it. Later, they died for the empire that arose as the
Republic weakened.
Toward the end of the Western Roman Empire, there were more foreigners
in the legions than Romans. The actual Romans were often poor having
been replaced by slaves from the very lands they had conquered.
Recently, I looked at my tattoos and wondered, "How long until the
sacrifices made by these men raising the flag in Iraq and Afghanistan
are as useless as those made by the Romans legions?"
As the American worker is increasingly replaced by outsourcing, H1-B
visas, and illegal immigration, as the culture shifts to resemble the
jumbled mess of the refugees that overwhelm our lands, and as whole
sections of our country are seemingly annexed by invaders, it may not
be long until we go the way of the Romans... and for the same reasons.
Looking at the poor retention in all four branches of our military and
the dwindling recruiting numbers, many of us are beginning to
understand what is really going on in the United States.
[Name Withheld] lives in Maryland.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By coincidence, this morning while driving in an
illegal-alien-infested Southern California city -- which, admittedly, t
this point could quite literally mean ANYWHERE in the state -- I began
thinking about the famous Gracchi brothers of ancient Rome.
Tiberius and Gaius Gracchus were two borthers born of acclaimed
ancestors (one of whom, Scipio, years earlier had defeated the North
African general Hannibal and thus put an end to Carthage's covetous
designs on Rome's own territories) and noble birth who were absolutely
appalled that Roman citizens -- in particular, Roman soldiers returning
from the imperial adventures they'd been ordered to risk their lives in
by the empire's elites -- were living in poverty because the Roman
elites had REPLACED THEM WITH FOREIGN SLAVES WORKING FOR A PITTANCE
(sound familiar?)
Indeed, the elite landowners' foreign (i.e. non-Roman) slaves were
literally living BETTER on the elites' landholdings than the Roman
soldiers who'd lived lives of grueling hardship for years as they were
sent to do the same elites' imperialistic bidding all over the known
(to the Romans) world of the time.
Today we see much the SAME kind of atrocity occurring in the United
States. Hopefully many of the heads-up-their-asses U.S. citizens who
are now oblivious to the NIGHTMARE of what is NOW GOING ON, the utter
INJUSTICE that is being perpetrated by 30+ million LAW-FLOUTING FOREIGN
INVADERS -- people who in just the past 3 years have killed THIRTY
THOUSAND AMERICANS on U.S. soil compared the the +/- 2600 U.S. troops
killed in Iraq -- will finally wake up.
The fact is that our state, local and federal governments are riddled
with EVIL PEOPLE IN POSITIONS OF POWER.
We cannot rely on a new Tiberius or Gaius Gracchus to "rescue" us.
Indeed, like so many populists in history, both of the Gracchi bothers
themselves were ultimately killed by the rich elites who couldn't bear
the thought of giving up their foreign slaves and doing right by the
Roman soldiers the best years of whose lives they'd taken before
unceremoniously spitting these authentic Romans' out like so much used
chewing gum. WE CAN RELY OF NO ONE BUT OURSELVES TO DO WHAT HAS TO BE
DONE TO OBTAIN JUSTICE AND TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK FROM THE MONIED ELITES
WHO WOULD SOONER SELL THEIR MOTHERS DOWN THE RIVER THAN FOLLOW THE LAW
AND HIRE LEGAL WORKERS WHEN AN ARMY OF EAGERLY UNDERBIDDING FOREIGN
PEASANTS WILL GLADLY WORK FOR ANYTHING MORE THAN THE GOING WAGE RATES
IN MEXICO, GUATEMALA OR EL SALVADOR.
Billzz
news:1162266410.7...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hoy Paloy wrote:
>
> From: [Name Withheld]
>
> I have two tattoos on my arms. On one arm: the mark of the Roman
> Legion, SPQR and on the other, the flag raising on Iwo Jima.
My son is in the Marines. They don't allow visible tattoos
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/l/bltattoo.htm
> While in Iraq, I often wondered if the Romans of the imperial times
> felt like they were fighting for nothing other than the wealth of a
> privileged elite and the glory of an emperor. Did they feel that their
> sacrifices were in vain? Or was the war booty enough to offset such
> sentiment?
You don't have to wonder. You can read Gibbon's, "Decline and Fall of the
Roman Empire." Here's the last paragraph...
Of these pilgrims, and of every reader, the attention will be excited by a
History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire; the greatest, perhaps,
and most awful scene in the history of mankind. The various causes and
progressive effects are connected with many of the events most interesting
in human annals: the artful policy of the Caesars, who long maintained the
name and image of a free republic; the disorders of military despotism; the
rise, establishment, and sects of Christianity; the foundation of
Constantinople; the division of the monarchy; the invasion and settlements
of the Barbarians of Germany and Scythia; the institutions of the civil law;
the character and religion of Mahomet; the temporal sovereignty of the
popes; the restoration and decay of the Western empire of Charlemagne; the
crusades of the Latins in the East: the conquests of the Saracens and Turks;
the ruin of the Greek empire; the state and revolutions of Rome in the
middle age. The historian may applaud the importance and variety of his
subject; but while he is conscious of his own imperfections, he must often
accuse the deficiency of his materials. It was among the ruins of the
Capitol that I first conceived the idea of a work which has amused and
exercised near twenty years of my life, and which, however inadequate to my
own wishes, I finally delivered to the curiosity and candour of the public.
LAUSANNE,
June 27 1787
Here's SPQR. There was no "one" Roman Legion. And it stood for more than
the Roman army.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPQR
You must have an axe to grind but I am not following this anymore....
Trent
"Billzz" <billzz...@starband.net> wrote in message
news:9c377$4546f3fc$9440b19b$11...@STARBAND.NET...
> <mentat...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1162266410.7...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Hoy Paloy wrote:
>>
>> From: [Name Withheld]
>>
>> I have two tattoos on my arms. On one arm: the mark of the Roman
>> Legion, SPQR and on the other, the flag raising on Iwo Jima.
>
> My son is in the Marines. They don't allow visible tattoos
>
> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/l/bltattoo.htm
>
He did not say where they are located n his arm did he?
The flag raising sounds big and probably on his upper arm?
Paine
Hoy Paloy
Did the original author say there is "one legion" or are you
unsuccessfully endeavoring to make a point?
>>
>>
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPQR
>>
>>
>>
>> You must have an axe to grind but I am not following this anymore....
An "axe to grind"?
The author's point could hardly be clearer, he is pretty explicit and
all that. History, not dooming yourself to repeat it, Populism, etc
etc.
Sounds you have focus problems coming and going, gramps.
mentat...@aol.com
> >
> > I have two tattoos on my arms. On one arm: the mark of the Roman
> > Legion, SPQR and on the other, the flag raising on Iwo Jima.
>
> My son is in the Marines. They don't allow visible tattoos
> http://usmilitary.about.com/od/marines/l/bltattoo.htm
The fact that your son may or may not be in the Marines has ZERO
relevance to the issues raised by the Marine veteran of the Iraq war
which was posted.
Moreover, in respect to the rather trivial matter regarding the
location of the Marine author's tattoos -- and what appalling pettiness
you displayed in even focusing on this irrelevant matter! -- you're
WRONG. IApparently you didn't even bother to read what's written at the
web address you cited, to wit:
"Location. Tattoos and brands are prohibited on the
head and neck. If they are visible on the arms or legs
in the service "C" uniform, they are prohibited."
NOWHERE is it written, as you so incorrectly claimed, that, "They
don't allow visible tattoos."
Hopefully you're not SO dense that you can't see the difference
between, regarding location, the service's SOLE prohibition of tattoos
that are visible while the Marine is wearing a particular category of
uniform and "visible tattoos." Thus, it's PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE (despite
your ignorant claim to the contrary) for a Marine to have tattoos which
are not visible while wearing the service "C" uniform but which are
visible for all the world to see when he/she is NOT wearing that
particular uniform.
> > While in Iraq, I often wondered if the Romans of the imperial times
> > felt like they were fighting for nothing other than the wealth of a
> > privileged elite and the glory of an emperor. Did they feel that their
> > sacrifices were in vain? Or was the war booty enough to offset such
> > sentiment?
>
> You don't have to wonder. You can read Gibbon's, "Decline and Fall of the
> Roman Empire." Here's the last paragraph...
Geez, you really ARE an annoying blowhard, aren't ya?
Of all the possible paragraphs to quote in that gripping tome you
chose THAT one. Though it had virtually NOTHING to do with the issues
pondered by the Marine author you apparently felt a need to quote
SOMETHING and thus raced to the *last* *paragraph* of that famous work;
clearly you've never read any of the thousands of paragraphs which
preceded it.
> You must have an axe to grind but I am not following this anymore....
Though I wasn't the author (I'm a former Army guy myself) I guess the
Marine who wrote those words astutely wondering if the Roman soldiers
-- and, by extension, he and his fellow Marines -- were ultimately
fighting not for their own interests but rather for those of the elites
-- I guess one could say her certainly DOES "have an axe to grind" ...
and quite legitimately so.
Joel Edge
(in article <qVM1h.276$0r....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>):
Yep, nice piece of fiction. Name withheld? Please.