Filthy ZYD Polanski Raped+Sodomised Child!
noauth
wants all to know about another filthy ZYD CRIMINAL:
From: childadvocate < smar...@aol.com >
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Polanski pled guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 19:44:02 -0700 (PDT)
France appeals to Hillary Clinton on behalf of Roman Polanski From
Times Online September 28, 2009 Polanski was accused of the rape in
1977 after photographing the teenager during a modelling session. The
girl said Polanski plied her with champagne and part of a Quaalude
sedative pill at Jack Nicholson's house. Polanski was allowed to plead
guilty to one of six charges, unlawful sexual intercourse, and was
sent to prison for 42 days of evaluation. Lawyers agreed that would be
his full sentence, but the judge tried to renege on the plea bargain.
Aware the judge would sentence him to more prison time and require his
voluntary deportation, Polanski fled to France where he has lived for
the past three decades.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6852265.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article6852265.ece
From: childadvocate <smar...@aol.com>
Newsgroups: soc.culture.usa
Subject: Let's not forget what Polanski did
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:21:09 -0700 (PDT)
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-lets-not-forget-what-polanski-did-1794717.html
Dominic Lawson: Let's not forget what Polanski did - The film director
has been treated with extraordinary indulgence Tuesday, 29 September
2009 A man who drugged and sodomised a 13-year old girl would not
usually receive the uncritical support of the political and literary
establishments....There, the 44-year-old Polanski plied her with the
drug Quaalude mixed in glasses of champagne. Then, after insisting
that she join him in the Jacuzzi, Polanski said: "Let's go in the
other room". From this point on, the testimony is harrowing, so skip
the next few paragraphs if you are of a squeamish disposition.
"Q. What did you do when he said, 'Let's go into the other room'?
A. I was going 'No, I think I better go home', because I was afraid.
So I just went and I sat down on the couch.
Q. What were you afraid of?
A. Him.... He sat down beside me and asked if I was OK. I said 'No'.
Q. What did he say?
A. He goes 'Well, you'll be better'. And I go, 'No I won't. I have to
go home. He said 'I'll take you home soon'.
Q. Then what happened?
A. Then he went down and he started performing cuddliness... I was
kind of dizzy, you know, like things were kind of blurry sometimes. I
was having trouble with my coordination... I wasn't fighting really
because I, you know, there was no one else there and I had no place to
go."
Q. Did he ask you about being on the pill?
A. He asked, he goes, 'Are you on the pill?' and I went, 'No' and he
goes 'When did you have your period?' and I said, 'I don't know. A
week or two. I'm not sure'... He goes, 'Come on. You have to
remember'. And I told him I didn't.... and right after I said I was
not on the pill... and he goes... and then he put me � wait. Then he
lifted my legs up farther and he went in through my anus.
Q. Did you resist at that time?
A. A little bit, but not really, because...
Q. Because what?
A. Because I was afraid of him."
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/dominic-lawson/dominic-lawson-lets-not-forget-what-polanski-did-1794717.html
The Smoking Gun Archive - polanski
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskicover1.html
Reminder Roman Polanski raped a child - Broadsheet - Salon_com
http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/feature/2009/09/28/polanski_arrest/index.html
Whitewashing Roman Polanski
More than 30 years after he raped a 13-year-old girl, the fugitive
director hoped a skewed documentary would reopen his case. Thankfully,
a judge said no dice.
By Bill Wyman
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2009/02/19/roman_polanski_documentary/
http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2009/02/19/roman_polanski_documentary/index1.html
Poland now has castration for kiddie molesters.
Let them do the first, with a rusty knife, on this filthy ZYD Polanski.
A "Bobbitt" would ensure that he never again molests a child!
Dänk 1010011010
> Poland now has castration for kiddie molesters.
> Let them do the first, with a rusty knife, on this filthy ZYD Polanski.
>
> A "Bobbitt" would ensure that he never again molests a child!
While Roman Polanski did violate U.S. law by having sex with a 13-year-
old girl, you must look at the context of his actions before passing
judgment on him.
The girl in question was an "aspiring model" in the 1970s, which means
she knew that sex was part of the job description. Even her parents
knew what she was in for when they let her "babysit" for a famous
Hollywood movie director. If Polanski is to be charged with a crime,
the girl's parents should also be charged as accomplices.
Then there is the girl's maturity. Even though she was technically
jailbait, she was mature enough to take the plunge into "modeling," a
career known for sex and drugs and is often just a front for
prostitution. People assume Polanski seduced the girl, but she likely
seduced him thinking it would help her career. Of course, Polanski is
still guilty of taking the jailbait, but the girl is hardly the
"victim" the media is making her out to be.
Kenneth McVay OBC
noauth <an...@remailer.gabrix.ath.cx> wrote:
>Ken McVay < kmc...@nizkor.org >
Updated Grosvenor Legal Documents & Extortion conviction:
http://William-Grosvenor.info
Grosvenor's latest legal challenge:
http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2008/2008canlii57728/2008canlii57728.html
Warman v. Grosvenor Judgment
Ontario Superior Court of Justice, October 21, 2008
For two years, Edmonton resident William Grosvenor engaged
in a virtual campaign of terror against Ottawa human rights
lawyer Richard Warman. Grosvenor bombarded the Internet with
calls to murder Warman while providing his home address, and
links to pictures of him and Google maps on how to get to his
home. Combined with this were hundreds of online postings
attempting to destroy Warman's personal and professional
reputation.
Now a judge of the Ontario Superior Court of Justice has
granted an injunction to put an end to it and has awarded Warman
$50,000 in damages for defamation and assault, the latter
stemming from Grosvenor's death threats and incitement to
violence. These threats of violence repeatedly called for
Warman's murder, described him as a "Dead Jew walking", and said:
"I AM GOD AND I HAVE A RUGER P-90 AND IT'S BULLETS HAVE YOUR NAME
ON THEM FAGBOY WARMAN?." [sic]
In her decision issued 20 October 2008, Justice Lynn
Ratushny found that despite Grosvenor having filed papers saying
he intended to defend the civil suit, he never did and was thus
deemed to have admitted the allegations against him. Instead of
defending the action, the day after being served with the
statement of claim on 15 Jan. 2008 , Grosvenor began sending
waves of emails to Warman's personal email address repeating his
online threats and libel.
Justice Ratushny described Grosvenor's defamatory postings
as "vicious, profane and extreme". She found they were made
dishonestly and in knowing or reckless disregard for the truth,
and said it amounted to "highly reprehensible misconduct". sHe
went on to note the level of hatred and anger contained in
Grosvenor's threats. Justice Ratushny said Grosvenor's efforts to
target Warman for violence, including repeatedly providing his
home address during a two-year period, took them beyond empty
threats and meant they had to be taken seriously.
Warman is an Ottawa lawyer who has successfully filed and
litigated 14 cases against members of the white supremacist and
neo-Nazi movements under the Canadian Human Rights Act provisions
prohibiting the spreading of hate propaganda through the
Internet.
Responding to the decision, Warman said "I'm hugely
relieved that the injunction has been granted and hope this will
bring an end to this two-year long nightmare." He continued, "I
wish I had never heard of William Grosvenor, but if someone is
going to encourage people to kill me then I'm going to see what I
can do to stop them."
The terms of the injunction granted by Justice Ratushny at
paragraph 92 of her judgement reference the submissions of the
plaintiff at subparas. 119(c-f). These sub-paragraphs require
Grosvenor to issue a complete retraction of the defamatory
comments; take all reasonable steps to remove them and his
threats from the Internet; prohibit him from publishing further
defamatory material or incitement to violence; and also from
contacting or communicating with Warman in any way.
The specific terms are:
119(c) granting a mandatory injunction requiring the
Defendant Mr. Grosvenor to make a complete public retraction of
the defamatory comments;
119(d) granting a mandatory injunction requiring Mr.
Grosvenor to make all reasonable efforts to remove from the
internet, the entirety of any and all of the internet postings
that he has published or caused to be published, and which are
defamatory to the Plaintiff, and/or which invade the Plaintiff's
privacy and/or which threaten to harm or kill the Plaintiff
and/or contain invitations and encouragements to harm or kill the
Plaintiff, whether by using the Plaintiff's name, nick-name,
address, photograph or other means of identity;
119(e) granting a permanent injunction restraining the
Defendant Mr. Grosvenor, and/or any other persons acting for the
Defendant, from publishing, causing to be published, posting, or
reposting on the internet or by any other method or medium,
either in Mr. Grosvenor's own name, under any nick-name,
pseudonym or aliases that he now uses, has used, or may use in
the future, any words which are defamatory to the Plaintiff,
and/or which invade the Plaintiff's privacy and/or which threaten
to harm or kill the Plaintiff and/or contain invitations and
encouragements to harm or kill the Plaintiff, whether by using
the Plaintiff's name, nick-name, address, photograph or other
means of identity; and prohibiting Mr. Grosvenor from publishing
or causing to be published any such words about Mr. Warman,
anonymously, or in the name of another person;
199(f) restraining Mr. Grosvenor from contacting or
communicating directly or indirectly with Mr. Warman, in any way
or by any method;
--
"Don't you know the Jews are the only once who can tell the
truce all other people like us just to stupid to understand
they have us believe." (Kurt Knoll, the Village Idiot of
Kitimat & Leading Example of "Revisionist Scholarship")
Anonymous
Poland now has castration for kiddie molesters.
Anonymous
hls
"Anonymous" <cri...@ecn.org> wrote in message
> France appeals to Hillary Clinton on behalf of Roman Polanski From
> Times Online September 28, 2009 Polanski was accused of the rape in
> 1977 after photographing the teenager during a modelling session.
I dont understand how a country like France would protect a child molester
and convicted sexual felon like Polanski. Even if the death sentence were
involved, France should show more social and civil responsibility than they
have done.
Kenneth McVay OBC
Warman v. Grosvenor Judgment
The specific terms are:
Who is your choice for the Dumbest celebrity? George W. Bush
holds a commanding lead at 26%, Kurt Knoll is second at
22.1% & Paris Hilton 3rd with 16.2%. VOTE NOW,
VOTE OFTEN: http://squidoo.com/think-you-are-stupid-eh
Kenneth McVay OBC
Earl Evleth
"hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
> I dont understand how a country like France would protect a child molester
> and convicted sexual felon like Polanski.
Some of them feel that it happened too long ago. The fact that his victim
wants all actions against him suspended means that justice is functioning
by momentum and not the desires of the victim. She is tired of getting
hassled by the press and did get a cash settlement. So that part of the
problem is no longer so simple.
His error was in leaving since if he had stayed and taken a period
in prison it would now be over. If the crime had happened in France
he would have gotten a few years, perhaps two served. The US has
a habit of handing out long long sentences and the social climate
in prison is worse than even here. Here he would have had an
individual cell in the VIP section of La Sant� prison. He might
have benefited by making a film about being a prisoner
after he left.
Note that the major support of Polanski is by Federic Mitterand,
who wrote a book (La Mauvaise Vie) of his (possibly) using boy prostitutes
in Thailand. His account caused no comment when published a while
back but came back to light when he was sympathic to Palanksi.
Mitterand's popularity then dropped from 48% to 33%.
Of the French in general the poll was 51% for prison for Polanski en prison,
and 42% don't have an opinion. So contrary to the impression of the
American media, Polanski does NOT have general support here.
I hope this clears things up.
John Rennie
> On 1/11/09 16:49, in article ddWdnfzXU-xoMHDX...@giganews.com,
> "hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote:
>
>> I dont understand how a country like France would protect a child molester
>> and convicted sexual felon like Polanski.
>
> Some of them feel that it happened too long ago. The fact that his victim
> wants all actions against him suspended means that justice is functioning
> by momentum and not the desires of the victim. She is tired of getting
> hassled by the press and did get a cash settlement.
Did she? http://tinyurl.com/ygm6tec
Earl Evleth
"John Rennie" <john-...@talktalk.net> wrote:
> Some of them feel that it happened too long ago. The fact that his victim
>> wants all actions against him suspended means that justice is functioning
>> by momentum and not the desires of the victim. She is tired of getting
>> hassled by the press and did get a cash settlement.
>
> Did she? http://tinyurl.com/ygm6tec
Not according to that source.
If she received nothing why is she trying to get the procedure stopped?
Just avoid hasseling? Or did she get paid off.
a more recent article indicates a settlement
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/CelebrityCafe/roman-polanski-remain-swiss-pri
son/story?id=8762407
Donna Evleth
> From: John Rennie <john-...@talktalk.net>
> Reply-To: john-...@talktalk.net
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 16:48:55 +0000
> Subject: Re: Filthy ZYD Polanski Raped+Sodomised Child!
She has still stated that she doesn't want the case to go forward because
she doesn't want to be dragged through the media mud, again. She is married
and has children, and her family does not need this.
Donna Evleth
>>
Donna Evleth
> From: "hls" <h...@nospam.nix>
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 09:49:08 -0600
> Subject: Re: Filthy ZYD Polanski Raped+Sodomised Child!
>
>
In the final accounting, it is not France whose opinion will count. It is
Switzerland, from which Polanski will be extradited.
The OP does not help his own credibility with his blatant anti-Semitism.
Donna Evleth
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
France's opinion has been what has counted for 30 years.
> The OP does not help his own credibility with his blatant anti-Semitism.
>
Using Polanski to attack Jews is just plain wrong. I'm sure someone
could use Catholic pedophile priests to attack all Catholics. That
would be more justified since the Catholic Church itself protected
(it seems) many of those priests. There is no claim that Jews or
the religion of Judaism protected Polanski. In fact, it was France,
a secular country, that did so.
--
What I hate about flip flops is the flip and the flop.
John Rennie
"But it is unclear whether that payment was ever made"
John Rennie
I have already posted to the effect that I understand her
predicament. However if she has children she would want them
protected from folks like Polanski. It's really quite
difficult to come down on one side or the other - Switzerland
have given themselves a rather nasty problem.
Kenneth McVay OBC
Mr. Grosvenor will use any excuse to attack Jews. Although he has
never attacked the Catholic church for the pedophiles it has
sheltered, he will repeatedly attack Jews over the same issue.
Polansky is simply the latest example of Mr. Grosvenor's need to
express his hatred of others.
--
"Fritz is making of himself the Brittany Spears of the
revisionist world..." (Bradley Smith of Friedrich Paul
Berg, Leading Revisionist Scholars both, on Bradley
Smith's Mailing List, Jan. 18, 2008)
M'Balz Es-Hari
news:ddWdnfzXU-xoMHDX...@giganews.com...
They kept Ira Einhorn there & he was a murderer - why wouldn't they cuddle
up to someone that was only a child rapist?
Happy99
"John Rennie" <john-...@talktalk.net> a �crit dans le message de
news:KvydncZiMLNrfnDX...@giganews.com...
John Rennie
central Pennsylvania."
Write out 100 times 'Must keep up-to-date'.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
It is probably difficult to insist that because she has children
who *might* be at risk from people *similar* to Polanski, she
should not settle with him and should run her entire family
including those kids *without doubt* through the mud.
> It's really quite
> difficult to come down on one side or the other - Switzerland
> have given themselves a rather nasty problem.
>
They should just follow the law. They don't have to decide anything
that difficult, just does Polanski warrant extradition based on the
facts of his situation. If yes, extradite, if not, don't. The real
hot spot will be in California if they get Polanski.
There, they'll have to defend anything they do and no possible
ultimate ruling won't have elements of unfairness, which people
will notice and protest. We know that there was likely
prosecutorial and judicial misconduct in the first proceedings. We
know that he pled out and then ran after believing his deal was not
going to be honoured. Many people involved in the original case are
now no longer alive. I don't know that that really helps things
because the state is still responsible for the whole messed up
mess. But Polanski is responsible for the crime and what he did in
running.
Earl Evleth
"M'Balz Es-Hari" <texa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> They kept Ira Einhorn there & he was a murderer
He was extradited in good form and is currently
serving his sentence in Pennsylvania.
THUS, he was NOT kept here.
We personally played a minor role in helping
his deportation. Including the following.
http://www.amgot.org/einhorn/pm9i24.htm
Lettre au Premier Ministre
envoy�e le 25 septembre 1999 en r�ponse � l'intervention de Me Delthil
M. le Premier Ministre Lionel Jospin
J�ai r�cemment pris connaissance des d�claration de Me Delthil de Bordeaux
dans l�affaire de l�extradition de l�Am�ricain Ira Einhorn, accus� d�un
meurtre commis � Philadelphie aux Etats-Unis.� Me. Delthil d�clare que �
l�acharnement que mettent les autorit�s judiciaires am�ricaines dans cette
affaire est d�montr� par la condamnation au civil le 28 juillet �
Philadelphie, d�Ira Einhorn, en son absence, � verser la somme aussi
faramineuse qu�inconcevable de 907 millions de dollars, soit l��quivalent
de 6 milliards de francs. �
Cette d�claration appelle une explication de la nature de la condamnation
au civil aux Etats-Unis.� Cette condamnation au civil est surtout une
condamnation de principe, sans l�intention d�essayer de r�cup�rer une telle
somme.� De telles condamnations sont pratique courante aux Etats-Unis: on a
vu la m�me sorte de condamnation dans l�affaire de O. J. Simpson.� C�est
surtout une action pr�ventative pour emp�cher que M. Einhorn profite des
contrats �ventuels hollywoodiens ou autres �galement faramineux.� C�est
pour contrer la possibilit� d�un m�diatisation de cette affaire par M.
Einhorn, � la m�prise de la victime, Holly Maddux.� On a d�j� parl�
d�ailleurs d�un livre...
J�esp�re que cette explication peut vous �clairer sur la vraie
signification de cette proc�dure aux Etats-Unis, de laquelle M. Einhorn
�tait absent, d�ailleurs, par son propre choix.
Veuillez agr�er, Monsieur le Premier Ministre, l�expression de mon
respectueux d�vouement.
��� Madame Donna Evleth
Earl Evleth
> They should just follow the law. They don't have to decide anything
> that difficult, just does Polanski warrant extradition based on the
> facts of his situation. If yes, extradite, if not, don't. The real
> hot spot will be in California if they get Polanski.
Note that extradition between countries is based on compatibility
of the laws. Thus, Europe will not extradite an accused
murderer to the USA unless they as guaranteed that that
person will person will not be sentenced to death.
Palonski's case from that standpoint might be easy, unless
Switzerland has a statue of limitations on the crime he
committed. So far there is no indication that Polanski's
lawyers have found such a loophole.
Donna Evleth
> From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
> <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to
> those who come after us.
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:22:27 +0000
> Subject: Re: Filthy ZYD Polanski Raped+Sodomised Child!
>
>
>
> Donna Evleth wrote:
>>
>>> From: "hls" <h...@nospam.nix>
>>> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
>>> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 09:49:08 -0600
>>> Subject: Re: Filthy ZYD Polanski Raped+Sodomised Child!
>>>
>>>
>>> "Anonymous" <cri...@ecn.org> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> France appeals to Hillary Clinton on behalf of Roman Polanski From
>>>> Times Online September 28, 2009 Polanski was accused of the rape in
>>>> 1977 after photographing the teenager during a modelling session.
>>>
>>> I dont understand how a country like France would protect a child molester
>>> and convicted sexual felon like Polanski. Even if the death sentence were
>>> involved, France should show more social and civil responsibility than they
>>> have done.
>>
>> In the final accounting, it is not France whose opinion will count. It is
>> Switzerland, from which Polanski will be extradited.
>>
> France's opinion has been what has counted for 30 years.
But it doesn't now, so get over it.
Donna Evleth
Donna Evleth
> From: "M'Balz Es-Hari" <texa...@hotmail.com>
> Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 15:23:23 -0600
> Subject: Re: Filthy ZYD Polanski Raped+Sodomised Child!
>
Ira Einhorn was extradited by France to the United States on July 20, 2001.
Did you not know that? He was then tried for murder and sentenced to life
without possibility of parole. He is currently serving his sentence in
Pennsylvania.
Donna Evleth
>
>
John Rennie
he must wish he'd never thought of the guy.
Donna Evleth
> From: John Rennie <john-...@talktalk.net>
> Reply-To: john-...@talktalk.net
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 12:47:01 +0000
Ah, but the third time's the charm. I probably know more about this case
than the others do, which means that I could tell him about the French
Minister of Justice, Elisabeth Guigou, who said, when she signed the
extradition order, "This case is of Biblical simplicity." But never mind,
poor Mike has doubtless already had enough.
Donna Evleth
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> On 1/11/09 23:30, in article 4AEE0BF6...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde {
> 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > They should just follow the law. They don't have to decide anything
> > that difficult, just does Polanski warrant extradition based on the
> > facts of his situation. If yes, extradite, if not, don't. The real
> > hot spot will be in California if they get Polanski.
>
> Note that extradition between countries is based on compatibility
> of the laws. Thus, Europe will not extradite an accused
> murderer to the USA unless they as guaranteed that that
> person will person will not be sentenced to death.
>
If a country feels strongly about a law, like it is opposed to the
death penalty, it might be warranted in making that sort of rule. I
wouldn't say that's true to the point though that the country's
laws would be used in the trial.
> Palonski's case from that standpoint might be easy, unless
> Switzerland has a statue of limitations on the crime he
> committed. So far there is no indication that Polanski's
> lawyers have found such a loophole.
>
I don't believe there is a statute of limitations on being a
fugitive from a felony conviction.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Perhaps Mike wonders why France extradited some unknown guy and
didn't extradite Polanski. Is it because Polanski has the juice?
Earl Evleth
Evleth" <dev...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Ah, but the third time's the charm. I probably know more about this case
> than the others do, which means that I could tell him about the French
> Minister of Justice, Elisabeth Guigou, who said, when she signed the
> extradition order, "This case is of Biblical simplicity." But never mind,
> poor Mike has doubtless already had enough.
We attended a meeting at which the "rapporteur" presented to the Conseil
d'Etat her report on the Einhorn request to annul the decision of the
government to extradite him. Her rapport was devastating for Einhorn.
He had tried to gather support in France for staying by claiming that he
would be subject to the death penalty if returned. If that had been true
the French would not have extradited him. However the truth was that
he committed the Philadelphia murder when the DP was not legal in
Pennsylvania, the legislature had not yet passed a new law. Even
so the Pennsylvania authorities promised the French "no DP". In addition
he had been tried in absentia, French law has the same kind of trial
by requires if the guilty person is arrested later they have the
right to a new trial. So the Pennsylvania Legislature passed a new
law allowing Einhorn a new trial. He was found guilty, his appeals
rejected
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
You can't retroactively increase the penalty for a crime, so if
there was no death penalty when he committed the crimes, there
could be none just added later.
> "Einhorn is currently incarcerated in the state prison at Houtzdale in
> central Pennsylvania."
>
I've never heard of him. I've heard of Polanski.
Earl Evleth
> If a country feels strongly about a law, like it is opposed to the
> death penalty, it might be warranted in making that sort of rule. I
> wouldn't say that's true to the point though that the country's
> laws would be used in the trial.
I think that if a particularly brilliant judgment is made by
any judge in the world, that this can be considered included
in the decisions made in another country.
Science, for instance, does not stop at the border.
Neither should justice.
> I don't believe there is a statute of limitations on being a
> fugitive from a felony conviction.
Depends on the trial. Remember the Scottboro Boys?
The Scottsboro Boys were nine black defendants in a 1931 rape case initiated
in Scottsboro, Alabama. The case was heard by the United States Supreme
Court twice and the decisions established the principles that criminal
defendants are entitled to effective assistance of counsel[1] and that
people may not be de facto excluded from juries because of their race.[2]
Nine young black defendants were accused of raping two fellow-homeless,
white women on a freight train, and eight were quickly convicted in a mob
atmosphere. The juries were entirely white, and the defense attorneys had
little experience in criminal law and no time to prepare their cases. As
each of the nine cases successively went to the jury, the next trial was
immediately begun. All but one of the defendants were found guilty, and
these eight were sentenced to death on rape charges. These eight, however,
later had their death sentences lifted by the Supreme Court, serving instead
between six and nineteen years in prison.
In 1976, forty-five years after the first trial, segregationist Alabama
Governor George Wallace issued a pardon to the one remaining Scottsboro
defendant still subject to the Alabama penal system[3]
Earl Evleth
> Perhaps Mike wonders why France extradited some unknown guy and
> didn't extradite Polanski. Is it because Polanski has the juice?
Switzerland did not touch him for years and he owned property there!
Earl Evleth
a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> You can't retroactively increase the penalty for a crime, so if
> there was no death penalty when he committed the crimes, there
> could be none just added later.
That was not an appeal issue, it was the making him do another
trial when already convicted in absentia. His lawyers naturally
argued that was unconstitutional but since it was not really
double jeopardy, that did not make it through the appeal.
The truth was that the system bent over backwards to deal
with his case. A new trial 20 years later risks a lot in
the US, witnesses are gone, evidence has disappeared etc.
In France this is less important, all the jury has
to have is the conviction that the guy is guilty,
evidence is secondary.
>> "Einhorn is currently incarcerated in the state prison at Houtzdale in
>> central Pennsylvania."
>>
> I've never heard of him. I've heard of Polanski.
The made no movie!
John Rennie
Probably because he never directed any films.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> On 2/11/09 18:55, in article 4AEF1D00...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde {
> 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > If a country feels strongly about a law, like it is opposed to the
> > death penalty, it might be warranted in making that sort of rule. I
> > wouldn't say that's true to the point though that the country's
> > laws would be used in the trial.
>
> I think that if a particularly brilliant judgment is made by
> any judge in the world, that this can be considered included
> in the decisions made in another country.
>
And courts do cite things from other countries. Obviously if you
want to cite something with precedential value, it would make sense
to cite it with some sort of recognized line back from current law.
In the US, the English common law was incorporated into American
common law where it wasn't overridden by the Constitution or
statute or anything else. This fills in the cracks and is a way to
cite something from 1412 or whatever. If you want to cite from
1412.
> Science, for instance, does not stop at the border.
> Neither should justice.
>
People should have the right to live under the laws that they wish
to live under, isn't that right, Earl? Would you have one set of
laws for all?
> > I don't believe there is a statute of limitations on being a
> > fugitive from a felony conviction.
>
> Depends on the trial. Remember the Scottboro Boys?
>
> The Scottsboro Boys were nine black defendants in a 1931 rape case initiated
> in Scottsboro, Alabama. The case was heard by the United States Supreme
> Court twice and the decisions established the principles that criminal
> defendants are entitled to effective assistance of counsel[1] and that
> people may not be de facto excluded from juries because of their race.[2]
> Nine young black defendants were accused of raping two fellow-homeless,
> white women on a freight train, and eight were quickly convicted in a mob
> atmosphere. The juries were entirely white, and the defense attorneys had
> little experience in criminal law and no time to prepare their cases. As
> each of the nine cases successively went to the jury, the next trial was
> immediately begun. All but one of the defendants were found guilty, and
> these eight were sentenced to death on rape charges. These eight, however,
> later had their death sentences lifted by the Supreme Court, serving instead
> between six and nineteen years in prison.
>
> In 1976, forty-five years after the first trial, segregationist Alabama
> Governor George Wallace issued a pardon to the one remaining Scottsboro
> defendant still subject to the Alabama penal system[3]
>
Is there some reason why you aren't including a link to where you
got this? It looks like you are claiming you wrote it. Are you Joe
Biden? Tell the truth.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
I've heard that. They say they weren't asked by California.
California says it always wanted him back. I don't have enough
information to know but clearly Polanski wasn't extradited from
France.
Earl Evleth
> Is there some reason why you aren't including a link to where you
> got this? It looks like you are claiming you wrote it.
just google Scottboro Boys wiki
I don't think there is a regular movie
although TV did one. (Judge Horton and the Scottsboro Boys (1976) (TV))
Southern justics has had a number of film treatments,
like I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang (1932), Cool Hand Luke,
etc .
AND
Leo Frank made the news today in the IHT
The Leo Frank case isn't dead
The class warfare behind the story of his 1915 lynching keeps it tragically
relevant.
On Aug. 17, 1915, Leo Frank, a Cornell-educated Jewish industrialist, was
lynched just outside Atlanta. The atrocity marked the culmination of an ugly
conflict that began with the 1913 murder of a child laborer named Mary
Phagan, who toiled for pennies an hour in Atlanta's National Pencil Factory.
Frank, the plant superintendent, was convicted of the crime and sentenced to
death, though he always maintained his innocence. He appealed his case all
the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, losing each time, whereupon Georgia Gov.
John Slaton commuted his sentence to life imprisonment. The decision so
angered the general populace that a mob organized by a Superior Court judge,
the son of a U.S. senator and a former governor abducted Frank from a
well-guarded state prison and hanged him from an oak tree.
The lynching of Frank seems like an incident out of another America, one of
gray-bearded Civil War veterans and Jim Crow, Model Ts and ragtime. Woodrow
Wilson was president. "The Birth of a Nation" was playing in theaters. The
story, however, remains very much alive. Throughout the fall, "Parade," the
Alfred Uhry musical inspired by the affair, has been drawing crowds to the
Mark Taper Forum. On Nov. 8, KCET will broadcast "The People v. Leo Frank,"
the first full-length documentary to explore the topic.
There are many reasons why the Frank case continues to command attention.
For one, both the murder of Mary Phagan and the lynching of Leo Frank are
crimes as puzzling as any Arthur Conan Doyle ever invented. Strange notes,
racial paradoxes (an all-white jury convicted the factory boss on the
testimony of a black witness) and an intricate conspiracy played a part. But
finally the story is still relevant and intriguing because the conflict at
its core foreshadows today's red-state/blue-state hostilities.
The raw material for class warfare was, of course, there from the start -- a
lovely Southern girl found murdered at a business run by a Northern Jew. But
it wasn't until after Frank's conviction that matters exploded. At the
urging of the rabbi of Atlanta's Reform synagogue, a nationwide campaign to
exonerate the condemned man was inaugurated by Adolph Ochs, publisher of the
New York Times, and A.D. Lasker, the advertising genius behind Sunkist
orange juice and Lucky Strike cigarettes. They believed that Frank had not
been so much prosecuted as persecuted.
To attract attention to what he viewed as an injustice, Ochs launched the
Times' first -- and to this day only -- journalistic crusade. Over an
18-month period, the paper published not just dozens of editorials demanding
a new trial for Frank but scores of news articles slanted in his favor. For
his part, Lasker orchestrated public relations stunts and hired William
Burns, the private detective who solved the 1910 bombing of the Los Angeles
Times, to turn up new evidence. Although Ochs and Lasker were convinced that
anti-Semitism had poisoned Frank's trial, they and their supporters in New
York and other urban areas did not take into account how their efforts would
come across in the South or in working-class heartland neighborhoods.
Articulating the populist response was future U.S. Sen. Tom Watson, a
Georgia lawyer and polemicist of such superior rhetorical gifts and
inexhaustible vitriol that Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck pale in comparison.
Week after week in his widely circulated paper, the Jeffersonian, Watson
rebutted Ochs and Lasker, arguing to his vast readership that self-appointed
elites representing money and privilege had decreed that a child laborer's
life was not equal in value to that of a Jewish industrialist. "The agrarian
rebel," as historian C. Vann Woodward dubbed Watson, gave voice to a
constituency that felt excluded from the halls of power in Washington and on
Wall Street. When Slaton commuted Frank's sentence, Watson called for the
lynching.
No one involved in Frank's death was ever convicted or even indicted. (The
chief prosecutor of the county in which the incident occurred helped to plan
it.) The polarizing impact of the affair made itself felt almost
immediately. On Thanksgiving eve 1915, a few months after Frank was hanged,
the Ku Klux Klan held its first modern-era cross-burning atop Stone
Mountain, several miles east of Atlanta. (Three members of the lynching
party were present.) Meanwhile, the Anti-Defamation League, which had been
founded in 1913, took up the fight against religious intolerance in earnest.
The Frank case, however, was about more than racism and anti-Semitism. It
was also about the conflicting perceptions of the nation's haves and
have-nots, the chasm between the people who appear to run things and those
who feel they lack a say. While it's doubtful that a mob could break into a
state prison in 2009 and lynch an inmate, it's not difficult to imagine a
scenario in which something almost as bad transpired. In an era of
escalating home foreclosures and rocketing unemployment, endless bank
bailouts and hefty bonuses to Goldman Sachs traders, the Frank saga says as
much about current events as it does about history.
John Rennie
How about this fun case (Wikipedia)
Vanity Fair libel case
In 2004, Polanski sued Vanity Fair magazine in London for libel. A 2002
article in the magazine written by A. E. Hotchner recounted a claim by
Lewis H. Lapham, editor of Harper's, that Polanski had made sexual
advances towards a young model as he was traveling to Sharon Tate's
funeral, claiming that he could make her "the next Sharon Tate". The
court permitted Polanski to testify via a video link, after he expressed
fears that he might be extradited were he to enter the United
Kingdom.[61][62]
The trial started on July 18, 2005, and Polanski made English legal
history as the first claimant to give evidence by video link. During the
trial, which included the testimony of Mia Farrow and others, it was
claimed that the alleged scene at the famous New York City restaurant
Elaine's could not have taken place on the date given, because Polanski
only dined at this restaurant three weeks later. Also, the Norwegian
model disputed accounts that he had claimed to be able to make her "the
next Sharon Tate." In the course of the trial, Polanski did admit to
having been unfaithful to Tate during their marriage.[63]
Polanski was awarded �50,000 damages by the High Court in London.
Graydon Carter, editor of Vanity Fair, responded, "I find it amazing
that a man who lives in France can sue a magazine that is published in
America in a British courtroom".[64]
Carefully avoiding the fact that the magazine is also printed in
the UK.
Earl Evleth
> I've heard that. They say they weren't asked by California.
> California says it always wanted him back. I don't have enough
> information to know but clearly Polanski wasn't extradited from
> France.
The only press item I was that he was planning a trip to the UK,
the US prepared the papers but he never showed up.
He is a French citizen and can't be extradited from here.
That is French law.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
You just said that a French person murdered someone in the US and
was extradited. Why does France protect its citizens from facing up
to serious crimes that they actually admitted to?
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> On 2/11/09 19:29, in article 4AEF24FE...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde {
> 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > Is there some reason why you aren't including a link to where you
> > got this? It looks like you are claiming you wrote it.
>
> just google Scottboro Boys wiki
>
> I don't think there is a regular movie
> although TV did one. (Judge Horton and the Scottsboro Boys (1976) (TV))
>
> Southern justics has had a number of film treatments,
> like I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang (1932), Cool Hand Luke,
> etc .
>
I think that the first one is more than a film treatment since the
guy it was about was there while they were filming it and he was
still on the run. Regarding Cool Hand Luke, I think it's about a
guy who's mad at God more than "Southern justics".
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> On 2/11/09 19:11, in article 4AEF20DB...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { 'by
> a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > You can't retroactively increase the penalty for a crime, so if
> > there was no death penalty when he committed the crimes, there
> > could be none just added later.
>
> That was not an appeal issue, it was the making him do another
> trial when already convicted in absentia. His lawyers naturally
> argued that was unconstitutional but since it was not really
> double jeopardy, that did not make it through the appeal.
>
That's the dumbest thing you've come up with yet, Earl. If he was
found guilty in absentia then fine, go with that. But double
jeopardy only applies to *each* relevant sovereign.
> The truth was that the system bent over backwards to deal
> with his case. A new trial 20 years later risks a lot in
> the US, witnesses are gone, evidence has disappeared etc.
> In France this is less important, all the jury has
> to have is the conviction that the guy is guilty,
> evidence is secondary.
>
You keep saying this and it really doesn't reflect well on the
French system, Earl. I'm not sure you get that, as you seem so
proud.
> >> "Einhorn is currently incarcerated in the state prison at Houtzdale in
> >> central Pennsylvania."
> >>
> > I've never heard of him. I've heard of Polanski.
>
> The made no movie!
>
I'm not following you. I've seen important movies because I felt
that seeing them increased useful knowledge. Now you've concluded
that *all* I've learned comes from movies. That is just ridiculous,
Earl. We were just discussing "cargo cults", so that's a random
subject. The materials cited in the wikipedia page on the subject
are essentially random, which am I familiar with? (see infra
quote) I've read the Feynman book, "Surely", I've read the Jared
Diamond book, "Guns", and I've seen the referenced film "Gods".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult
#begin quote
The term as an adjective is perhaps best known outside of
anthropology because of a speech by physicist Richard Feynman at a
Caltech commencement, wherein he referred to "cargo cult science",
and which became a chapter in the book Surely You're Joking, Mr.
Feynman!. In the speech, Feynman pointed out that cargo cultists
create all the appearance of an airport right down to headsets with
bamboo "antennas", yet the airplanes do not come. Feynman argued
that some researchers often produce studies with all the trappings
of real science, but which are nonetheless pseudoscience and
unworthy of either respect or support.
...
The fictional movie The Gods Must Be Crazy included a cargo cult.
In the book Guns, Germs, and Steel the author, Jared Diamond, poses
as the initiating question "Why did you [Europeans] wind up with
all the cargo?", as asked by a Papua New Guinean,
#end quote
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
He murdered people. I don't really follow that topic religiously.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
One would presume that res judicata would apply otherwise he could
repeat those suits everywhere it was published, right? That's
better than double jeopardy which only applies to *each* sovereign.
Earl Evleth
> You just said that a French person murdered someone in the US and
> was extradited.
Einhorn? He was a US citizen living in France using a stolen
identity from Ireland.
> Why does France protect its citizens from facing up
> to serious crimes that they actually admitted to?
France is not alone! But I know of no French citizens accused
of a series crime in the US whose extradition has been blocked.
In some cases the country who will not extradite will
try the accused in their country. This happened a number
of years ago when young American who committed a vicious
murder in Maryland or Delaware took off and when to Israel.
In Israel he asked for the right of return and received
Israeli citizenship (well after the crime was committed)
Israel refused to extradite but in collaboration
with US authorities, they tried the man in Israel
and sentenced him to along prison sentence there.
Can others escape justice in this manner? Could Madoff
have gone to Israel and do that? I don't know. But
I suspect a trial in Israel would have occurred and
he would have gotten prison there.
Earl Evleth
> Regarding Cool Hand Luke, I think it's about a
> guy who's mad at God more than "Southern justics".
Let us say that work camp environments were not give
good publicity.
Earl Evleth
>> The truth was that the system bent over backwards to deal
>> with his case. A new trial 20 years later risks a lot in
>> the US, witnesses are gone, evidence has disappeared etc.
>> In France this is less important, all the jury has
>> to have is the conviction that the guy is guilty,
>> evidence is secondary.
>>
> You keep saying this and it really doesn't reflect well on the
> French system, Earl. I'm not sure you get that, as you seem so
> proud.
The OJ Simpson trial did not reflect well for the American system.
Moreover, many American criminal trials of the rich terminate
in acquittal were as the accused is later convicted in a civil
trial.
>
>>>> "Einhorn is currently incarcerated in the state prison at Houtzdale in
>>>> central Pennsylvania."
>>>>
>>> I've never heard of him. I've heard of Polanski.
>>
>> They made no movie!
You are overly influenced by movies, so much so that your remain
largely ignorant of the real world.
Earl Evleth
'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
> He murdered people. I don't really follow that topic religiously.
He murdered one person. And he kept the body in a trunk is a closet of
his bed room. That is an EXCEPTIONAL murder. Then the body was found,
he was arrested for murder and released on a small bail furnished by
a rich person. He was sort of a hippy guru of the 1970s and conned
a lot of people. Senator Spector of Pennsylvania intervene on his
behalf for a low bail.
Then Einhorn skipped the country, headed for Ireland and the UK
were he took the identity of an Irishman who gave him his own
passport. Einhorn was a convincing sociopath and could talk
himself out of a lot of things.
A persistent Philadelphia detective kept going after him
and traced him to Ireland, found him and then Einhorn
skipped out again and took up with a Swedish woman
and she bought a farm house in rural southern France.
She made the mistake of asking for a driver's license
transfer from Sweden to France and Einhorn was discovered
anew. We got involved a bit at that time when we met
the victim's family visiting France on the extradition
request. The French court turned down the first extradition
on the basis that he would not tried again, he had
been tried in Pennsylvania in absentia. French law
insists on a real trial.
The American Embassy had not advised the family well. We found
out that they did not know the French practice of
the "partie civile", we informed them that they
could have their own lawyer represent them
at the next hearing. We even recommended a lawyer,
a man having both French and US citizenship and
the right to practice law in France. That lawyer
was the key lawyer at the 2nd hearing and convinced
the court that Einhorn should be extradited. Pennsylvania
had changed their law to accommodate French law.
We even knew Einhorn's lawyer, a tricky character
who spent most of the time publicly condemning
the death penalty insinuating that his client
was in danger. Various appeals
blocked the extradition for a while but one
day a hired jet came to France and
took Einhorn back. His final conviction and
loss of appeals in the US terminated the story.
Except he is still alive in prison and no doubt
has conned himself into a nice prison job.
His Swedish wife remained faithful to him all
through this, but we understand that in the US
he has taken up with another foolish woman
who can visit him. We think that because she
helped Einhorn so much that she is subject
to aid and abetting in the US, so had never
visited him in prison.
A real rotter but perhaps not movie material.
Donna Evleth
> From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
> <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to
> those who come after us.
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:56:43 +0000
Bill, Einhorn wasn't exactly unknown, particularly in Philadelphia, where he
came from and where the murder took place. He was a hippie figure locally,
ran for mayor, claimed to be one of the founders of Earth Day.
The police in the US had been looking for Einhorn for years. They finally
got lucky when the woman known to be Einhorn's girlfriend, who was Swedish,
wrote to Sweden from France for documentation on her Swedish driver's
license so she could get a driver's license here. The police had been
keeping an eye on the girlfriend's contacts in her native country, and
through her they found Einhorn.
Do you know whether or not the United States ever asked France for
extradition for Polanski? I don't know. If they didn't ask, the French
would not extradite in any case. However, most nations don't extradite
their own nationals. Since Polanski is not a Swiss national, Switzerland
can do this.
Donna Evleth
Donna Evleth
> From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
> <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to
> those who come after us.
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:11:39 +0000
> Subject: Re: Filthy ZYD Polanski Raped+Sodomised Child!
>
>
>
So what?
Donna Evleth
Donna Evleth
> From: John Rennie <john-...@talktalk.net>
> Reply-To: john-...@talktalk.net
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 18:47:54 +0000
Oh my! One thing Polanski seems to be awfully good at, other than directing
films, is getting a number of countries involved in his legal turmoil.
Donna Evleth
>
John Rennie
is able to buy a house and live in Switzerland but when
invited to a film festival is arrested. One wonders if the
cantons are in that much touch with each other?
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
You think a long haired creep from Philly has got the juice in
France? He's an unknown to me and he probably would be in France
too. He sure claims to be important, however. You followed him
before the current kerfuffle?
> The police in the US had been looking for Einhorn for years. They finally
> got lucky when the woman known to be Einhorn's girlfriend, who was Swedish,
> wrote to Sweden from France for documentation on her Swedish driver's
> license so she could get a driver's license here. The police had been
> keeping an eye on the girlfriend's contacts in her native country, and
> through her they found Einhorn.
>
> Do you know whether or not the United States ever asked France for
> extradition for Polanski? I don't know. If they didn't ask, the French
> would not extradite in any case. However, most nations don't extradite
> their own nationals. Since Polanski is not a Swiss national, Switzerland
> can do this.
>
So you are saying that if you are a citizen of country X, you can
visit country Y and murder people and then return to country X,
assuming you could before getting caught in country Y or in
countries Z1, Z2 to Zn, and then you could start making movies, in
country X, and thumb your nose at country Y, although Hollywood
might still give you awards in absentia?
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
So why extradite the one who was unknown and protect the one who
had the juice?
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Given he's been on the run all these years, he probably has plenty
of lawyers on retainer. They probably like stuff to do, so he
regularly gets them involved, whether he really needs to or not.
Earl Evleth
a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Given he's been on the run all these years, he probably has plenty
> of lawyers on retainer.
Since he was a citizen of both Poland and France, he did not have
to worry about being seized in those countries. I suspect he
was at times warned not to come to countries like Switzerland
by authorities who did not want to be bothered with this
affair on their watch. So he may have gotten the feeling
of immunity from arrest in Europe.
I am curious as to what his lawyers will try. They could
alternately request deportation, back to either Poland
or France, the latter being nearly a stone's throw
from where he is being held. I don't think this
will occur since things have gone too far to
be brushed off like that.
His chalet in Switzerland is nice looking
http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2009/10/20/09/323-605Switzerland_Polanski
.sff.standalone.prod_affiliate.81.jpg
I have not found an estimate of it value, but very probably over
2 million euros.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
That's the setting for most of the film. It's not clear that that
is really the message at its core. The film starts with a drunken
Cool Hand Luke with a hacksaw. The police ask him what he's doing,
he replies, "I'm cutting the heads off these parking meters." There
are perhaps dozens of parking meter mechanisms removed from their
metal pole standards each sitting next to where it was cut. Does it
make sense that this is a serious theft? Who would leave them cut
next to the pole? Wouldn't you collect them somewhere to make a
quick escape?
He's clearly rebelling against authority, which we see in the
original interaction with the police and later with each authority
figure including the work camp, chain gang, warden. But these can
be seen as part of a larger rebellion against God. I think that he
intentionally puts himself into the prison, on the chain gang, so
he can defeat it, like he's found a localized way to battle with
God.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Donna Evleth wrote:
>
> > From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
> > <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
> > Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to
> > those who come after us.
> > Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> > Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:22:27 +0000
> > Subject: Re: Filthy ZYD Polanski Raped+Sodomised Child!
> >
> >
> >
> > Donna Evleth wrote:
> >>
> >>> From: "hls" <h...@nospam.nix>
> >>> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> >>> Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 09:49:08 -0600
> >>> Subject: Re: Filthy ZYD Polanski Raped+Sodomised Child!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Anonymous" <cri...@ecn.org> wrote in message
> >>>>
> >>>> France appeals to Hillary Clinton on behalf of Roman Polanski From
> >>>> Times Online September 28, 2009 Polanski was accused of the rape in
> >>>> 1977 after photographing the teenager during a modelling session.
> >>>
> >>> I dont understand how a country like France would protect a child molester
> >>> and convicted sexual felon like Polanski. Even if the death sentence were
> >>> involved, France should show more social and civil responsibility than they
> >>> have done.
> >>
> >> In the final accounting, it is not France whose opinion will count. It is
> >> Switzerland, from which Polanski will be extradited.
> >>
> > France's opinion has been what has counted for 30 years.
>
> But it doesn't now, so get over it.
>
So we can't discuss the fact that France has been harbouring this
known fugitive for decades because some other country has at least
stepped up to the plate and got him?
Earl Evleth
> So we can't discuss the fact that France has been harbouring this
> known fugitive for decades because some other country has at least
> stepped up to the plate and got him?
How was France doing that? We know of no extradition requested
by US authorities to the French.
Donna Evleth
> From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
> <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to
> those who come after us.
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:45:33 +0000
As you should have guessed by now, I don't care about Hollywood. You
obviously do. Have you ever actually been there?
Switzerland is going to get to handle this problem. Let them. Maybe they
don't care any more about Hollywood than I do.
Donna Evleth
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
I post a joke and I get such a weird response? Are you copying
Earl's posts?
> Switzerland is going to get to handle this problem. Let them. Maybe they
> don't care any more about Hollywood than I do.
>
I didn't say that Switzerland shouldn't handle its
responsibilities. I asked your views on a specific context form and
you ducked.
Donna Evleth
> From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
> <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to
> those who come after us.
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:12:05 +0000
Again, you have not answered the question I asked earlier: was France ever
asked to extradite him? I have mentioned before that countries do not
usually extradite their own nationals. I refer you to the case of Samuel
Scheinbein, an American teenager born and raised in the US who fled to
Israel after having murdered and dismembered an acquaintance in Maryland.
He was eventually tried in Israel for this murder, and was given a prison
sentence. That was the best the Israelis were willing to do. Israel's
Supreme Court ruled that Sheinbein was an Israeli citizen because his father
holds an Israeli passport and thus he could not be extradited.
It was a particularly grisly murder, and Scheinbein might have risked the
death penalty if he had remained in Maryland. He had never lived in Israel
before he fled there.
Donna Evleth
Your rabid francophobia sometimes overcomes your good sense.
Donna Evleth
> From: "Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )"
> <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk>
> Organization: Our legacy is not the lives we lived but the lives we leave to
> those who come after us.
> Newsgroups: alt.politics.europe,alt.activism.death-penalty
> Date: Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:10:42 +0000
What was the joke??? I seem to have missed it. But then I often miss your
jokes.
>
>
>> Switzerland is going to get to handle this problem. Let them. Maybe they
>> don't care any more about Hollywood than I do.
>>
> I didn't say that Switzerland shouldn't handle its
> responsibilities. I asked your views on a specific context form and
> you ducked.
I didn't answer that context because your presentation of it was very
complicated, and I needed time to do some research on it. I have discovered
that France is not the only country where Polanski made films. One of his
most famous films, "The Pianist" (2002) was filmed in Germany and Poland.
What did they do about Polanski?
Donna Evleth
Earl Evleth
Evleth" <dev...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
> Your rabid francophobia sometimes overcomes your good sense.
Bill, there is a wiki on him
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Sheinbein
One clarification is that Israel tried to extradite him but ---
"Both the American and Israeli governments attempted to have him extradited,
but the Israeli Supreme Court forbade it in a 3-2 ruling in 1999 and he was
tried later that year in Israel. The case led to changes to the law in
Israel. After accepting a plea bargain with prosecutors, Sheinbein was
sentenced to 24 years in jail with eligibility for parole in 2013 when he is
33."
In fact it was an embarrassing case for Israel.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
I include elements of humour within the serious commentary I
produce. I provided you with a generalized formula to respond to,
it could apply to any countries, X, Y, and Zn. Then at the end, I
bring it all back into focus and make it about Polanski again. But
you didn't respond to the question.
> >> Switzerland is going to get to handle this problem. Let them. Maybe they
> >> don't care any more about Hollywood than I do.
> >>
> > I didn't say that Switzerland shouldn't handle its
> > responsibilities. I asked your views on a specific context form and
> > you ducked.
>
> I didn't answer that context because your presentation of it was very
> complicated, and I needed time to do some research on it. I have discovered
> that France is not the only country where Polanski made films. One of his
> most famous films, "The Pianist" (2002) was filmed in Germany and Poland.
> What did they do about Polanski?
>
Having certainly heard about this issue, I had thought that
Polanski was pretty free to romp about Europe. I think he thought
so too.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
I recall at least that California maintains it has always wanted
Polanski back and that it has had that request on file with the
authorities, such as Interpol, who'd facilitate any transaction.
That this is news to France seems suspect. The fact of the
director's flight made all the papers, maybe even Le Puanteur, or
whatever it is you're always going on about reading.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
I recall at least that California maintains it has always wanted
Polanski back and that it has had that request on file with the
authorities, such as Interpol, who'd facilitate any transaction.
That this is news to France seems suspect. The fact of the
director's flight made all the papers, maybe even Le Puanteur, or
whatever it is Earl is always going on about reading.
> I have mentioned before that countries do not
> usually extradite their own nationals. I refer you to the case of Samuel
> Scheinbein, an American teenager born and raised in the US who fled to
> Israel after having murdered and dismembered an acquaintance in Maryland.
> He was eventually tried in Israel for this murder, and was given a prison
> sentence. That was the best the Israelis were willing to do. Israel's
> Supreme Court ruled that Sheinbein was an Israeli citizen because his father
> holds an Israeli passport and thus he could not be extradited.
>
> It was a particularly grisly murder, and Scheinbein might have risked the
> death penalty if he had remained in Maryland. He had never lived in Israel
> before he fled there.
>
There may be rules in Israel that preclude extradition for these
sorts of things, perhaps because of the 'right of return' rules.
But why didn't Polanski get popped in Paris? Why not put him in a
French cell? See, that didn't happen either.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> On 4/11/09 13:56, in article C71738A7.833AA%dev...@wanadoo.fr, "Donna
> Evleth" <dev...@wanadoo.fr> wrote:
>
> > Your rabid francophobia sometimes overcomes your good sense.
>
> Bill, there is a wiki on him
>
There's now one on that guy who murdered those ten people in Ohio.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Sheinbein
>
> One clarification is that Israel tried to extradite him but ---
>
> "Both the American and Israeli governments attempted to have him extradited,
> but the Israeli Supreme Court forbade it in a 3-2 ruling in 1999 and he was
> tried later that year in Israel. The case led to changes to the law in
> Israel. After accepting a plea bargain with prosecutors, Sheinbein was
> sentenced to 24 years in jail with eligibility for parole in 2013 when he is
> 33."
>
> In fact it was an embarrassing case for Israel.
>
So they will now send back people who kill and then run for cover
in Israel?
Earl Evleth
a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> How was France doing that? We know of no extradition requested
>> by US authorities to the French.
>>
> I recall at least that California maintains it has always wanted
> Polanski back and that it has had that request on file with the
> authorities, such as Interpol, who'd facilitate any transaction.
> That this is news to France seems suspect. The fact of the
> director's flight made all the papers, maybe even Le Puanteur, or
> whatever it is you're always going on about reading.
We are talking about an extradition request. Since the
French will not extradite one of its citizen such a request
would be useless so one suspects they did not. On the other
hand the US could ask for arrest and trial on French soil
for the crime in committee in California. I know of no
such request.
What we do know by personal experience is that the US
has little experience in the legal systems of other
countries. The American Embassy in Paris screwed up
the Einhorn extradition. Our experience with the
American arrested here who spent 11 years a French
prison is that the American Embassy is relatively
useless. Its consular agents purposely on relatively
short assignments in any country in order to prevent
them from going native.
Earl Evleth
a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> But why didn't Polanski get popped in Paris? Why not put him in a
> French cell?
No legal procedure was made against him that I know of. This was the
responsibility of the American government to pursue, via French lawyers
in a French court. There are ways of getting around gouvernment officials
who refuse to act. In particular if the victim of the crime gets
a lawyer and asked for the assignment of an instruction judge,
the judge will be assigned and will investigate. We know in the
Polanski case the victim want to end this whole thing and has
requested dropping the case. In that light the French authorities
could respond "what's the beef?"
Earl Evleth
a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> So they will now send back people who kill and then run for cover
> in Israel?
I don't know the law change. It is obviously absurd to grant
asylum for somebody who request Israeli citizenship after
the crime.
But I suspect that an Israeli citizen who commits murder
in the US and flees back to Israel would be tried in
Israel.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> On 5/11/09 0:37, in article 4AF2102B...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { 'by
> a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > So they will now send back people who kill and then run for cover
> > in Israel?
>
> I don't know the law change. It is obviously absurd to grant
> asylum for somebody who request Israeli citizenship after
> the crime.
>
The law might say that anyone who qualifies gets citizenship and
then it might say that anyone who has citizenship can't be
deported. Modifying that to take into consideration that people
shouldn't be able to murder and then run to countries where they
have citizenship is a good idea.
> But I suspect that an Israeli citizen who commits murder
> in the US and flees back to Israel would be tried in
> Israel.
>
You say that's what happened.
Earl Evleth
>> But I suspect that an Israeli citizen who commits murder
>> in the US and flees back to Israel would be tried in
>> Israel.
>>
> You say that's what happened.
Yes and I think that will continue for those
having Israeli citizenship at the time of the crime.
Bill Bonde { 'by a commodius vicus of recirculation' )
Earl Evleth wrote:
>
> On 5/11/09 0:35, in article 4AF20FD8...@yahoo.co.uk, "Bill Bonde { 'by
> a commodius vicus of recirculation' )" <tribuyl...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > But why didn't Polanski get popped in Paris? Why not put him in a
> > French cell?
>
> No legal procedure was made against him that I know of. This was the
> responsibility of the American government to pursue, via French lawyers
> in a French court. There are ways of getting around gouvernment officials
> who refuse to act. In particular if the victim of the crime gets
> a lawyer and asked for the assignment of an instruction judge,
> the judge will be assigned and will investigate.
>
I don't know about that. Why should the victim do that? Isn't
extradition between the two countries?
> We know in the
> Polanski case the victim want to end this whole thing and has
> requested dropping the case. In that light the French authorities
> could respond "what's the beef?"
>
The violation in California is against the people of California,
and not just the victim. In a case of statutory rape, even if the
victim consents, the state can still prosecute.
Earl Evleth
> In particular if the victim of the crime gets
>> a lawyer and asked for the assignment of an instruction judge,
>> the judge will be assigned and will investigate.
>>
> I don't know about that. Why should the victim do that? Isn't
> extradition between the two countries?
Not sufficient, there are plenty of examples in which public
officials decide not to act. Bureaucratic inertia does occur.
We already reported the Einhorn case and how that had to be pushed
by a lawyer of the victim.
I know of another case in which the criminal got away with it.
An American who committed tax fraud in the New York Financial
community and walked out of the country after transferring
10 million dollars out of the reach of the IRS. He came to
France and obtained French citizenship within months
(normally it takes about 2 years from the day of application,
it did in our case). Then he renounce his US citizenship.
The IRS caught up with him and using a provision in the Franco
American tax treaty since an asset seizure order throught
the French IRS (called the "Fisc" here). The French tax
officer called the man in for an interview and the man
showed his French citizenship papers. The French tax
man promptly "tore" up the American request, his case
was "class�".
No extradition was arranged, no stolen (from the taxpayers)
was returned. My father had a French associated who
did much the same thing. He came to the US, formed
a company, made a couple of million, sold out and
returned to France without paying his US capital
gains tax. The IRS did not pursue him because it
was useless to try.
I suspect that extradition proceedings are hen's teeth
rare. For every 100 criminals who might be subject to
extradition, a few are.